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View Full Version : Our starting pg shoots 53% from the ft line



thespywhozaggedme
12-12-2015, 08:07 PM
How many front end of one and ones has he already missed this season? This is absurd.

ZagLawGrad
12-12-2015, 08:08 PM
How many front end of one and ones has he already missed this season? This is absurd.

It is inexcusable

btzag
12-12-2015, 08:10 PM
Yep not good.

Wiltjer with 15 shots, Sabonis with 12, Perkins with 12 and Mclellan with 11. I want to see Wiltjer with 25 shots a game similar to Ammo. Dreadful offensive team and you've got a 1st team AA who is trying to spread it out or something. Be selfish!

GUfan34
12-12-2015, 08:12 PM
Yep not good.

Wiltjer with 15 shots, Sabonis with 12, Perkins with 12 and Mclellan with 11. I want to see Wiltjer with 25 shots a game similar to Ammo. Dreadful offensive team and you've got a 1st team AA who is trying to spread it out or something. Be selfish!

Unfortunately Morrison could get his own shot at any time from anywhere on the court. Wiltjer just not that guy. He's a set shooter and post player. Morrison was basically a guard at 6-8 where Wiltjer doesn't have those skills

katman50
12-12-2015, 08:14 PM
Unfortunately Morrison could get his own shot at any time from anywhere on the court. Wiltjer just not that guy. He's a set shooter and post player. Morrison was basically a guard at 6-8 where Wiltjer doesn't have those skills

He is no Ammo, but still pretty good at creating his shot from all areas of the court.

btzag
12-12-2015, 08:23 PM
He is no Ammo, but still pretty good at creating his shot from all areas of the court.

Yes. Wiltjer is 6'10" and can shoot over almost any player. It's not about wide open shots at the top level of hoops, it's about knocking down tough contested shots when it counts the most. Alford drives in the lane and shoots a left-handed prayer over two huge defenders and makes it. Witjer has a guy in front of him and so passes it. Ammo would have taken that shot even with a defender in his grille.

katman50
12-12-2015, 08:25 PM
Where is Derek Raivio when we need him?

SteelZag
12-12-2015, 08:34 PM
I really can't remember seeing Wiltjer ever have a shot blocked, maybe he is smart enough to always pass out of a double or team.

hooter73
12-12-2015, 09:27 PM
How many front end of one and ones has he already missed this season? This is absurd.

Too true but who exactly do you replace him with? Hes a freshman making freshman mistakes and the fans expect him to play like a senior like the last freshman point guard did for all four of his years.

GUfan34
12-12-2015, 09:41 PM
Too true but who exactly do you replace him with? Hes a freshman making freshman mistakes and the fans expect him to play like a senior like the last freshman point guard did for all four of his years.


Pangos and Bell were rock solid since day 1 of their freshman seasons, no doubt about that. We took that for granted and we should have realized how lucky we were to have that.

I think we all wanted more from Pangos and Bell last year, whether that was fair or unfair idk, but as young guards, they were unbelievably poised and solid.

Maybe we expected too much from Perkins but that's only because he's been here for well over a year now.

Baseline
12-12-2015, 10:19 PM
When I played High School ball the coach had a rule, guards must shoot 65% and bigs 60% or they don't play and he held to that.
Any guard with 5 TO does not play the next game.

I wonder if Few has any such guidelines.

SteelZag
12-12-2015, 10:55 PM
When I played High School ball the coach had a rule, guards must shoot 65% and bigs 60% or they don't play and he held to that.
Any guard with 5 TO does not play the next game.

I wonder if Few has any such guidelines.

I think maybe not so much as those guidelines would have left us without Perkins, McClellan and Dranginis for game tonight. Not saying the remaining guards couldn't have won but.....

Food for thought.

Outraged
12-12-2015, 11:50 PM
I thought Perkins played okay today. Much improved.

GUfan34
12-13-2015, 05:17 AM
Zags have no other options.

No depth at all.

bartruff1
12-13-2015, 06:07 AM
I thought Perkins played okay today. Much improved.

+ 1.....they both did...

kclubfounder
12-13-2015, 06:38 AM
Is Perkins really this bad? How is it possible? I'm going to hold out hope that he is in the midst of the worst month of his competitive basketball life, and he is about to start playing normally.

Stache
12-13-2015, 07:03 AM
One big difference from last year is our ability to hit threes when defenders go under a high ball screen. Last year, Bell and particularly Pangos would stop and drop a three if their defender went below the high screens. This year, we aren't yet a threat in that way. If you are respected as a threat from three, then the defenses sometime shave to switch. The trickle down effect is that we don't get the same mismatches from defenders forced to switch on the high pick and role. Forcing the defense to switch starts the challenge of defensive rotation and that is when the offense takes the advantage. Suddenly the big man screener is rolling through lane with a guard riding him or the quick guard has a PF at the parimiter. Right now, guards are going under the screens because they don't have to fight over the top of them.

DixieZag
12-13-2015, 07:16 AM
Too true but who exactly do you replace him with? Hes a freshman making freshman mistakes and the fans expect him to play like a senior like the last freshman point guard did for all four of his years.

These are the first top billed frosh (meaning frosh regarded so highly they were likely starting upon landing on campus - - the are the first ones I can recall being a total bust (so far - there is plenty of time for them to adjust, come back, learn, . . . and I know words like "total bust" aren't nice to hear, but it's time for reality check. Melson isn't ready for this level. eMac seems suspect, KD isn't "ready" for this level - even though he's a 5 th year senior, Perkins is both an asset and a liability, which becomes a liability at PG with his shooting and TOs.

I am trying to imagine how many of these guys will be here next year. KD won't - graduation, same eMac, but the rest????? With who we have lined up????

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2015, 07:29 AM
Too true but who exactly do you replace him with? Hes a freshman making freshman mistakes and the fans expect him to play like a senior like the last freshman point guard did for all four of his years.

How did you get all of that out of what I wrote? Regardless of what class he is, is it asking too much to expect your starting Point guard to shoot better than 53% from the free-throw line?

mtnZag
12-13-2015, 07:37 AM
How many front end of one and ones has he already missed this season? This is absurd.

Totally and completely inexcusable for a point guard at this level. What's with our guards anyway? I don't recall Zag guards ever playing this badly; lazy errant passing, missing free throws, driving into traffic and losing the ball. It's embarrassing to watch!

DixieZag
12-13-2015, 07:40 AM
How did you get all of that out of what I wrote? Regardless of what class he is, is it asking too much to expect your starting Point guard to shoot better than 53% from the free-throw line?

No.

Represent lack of commitment to practice and details that matter.

There is no one with his skills that cannot be coached to 66% - probably %70. He's just not there b/c he likely has never felt the need to really practice them. Never been n enough close games to see how critical they are, never seen the different between 7-15 and 12-15 play out. And, still won't commit to it.

Birddog
12-13-2015, 07:50 AM
No.

Represent lack of commitment to practice and details that matter.

There is no one with his skills that cannot be coached to 66% - probably %70. He's just not there b/c he likely has never felt the need to really practice them. Never been n enough close games to see how critical they are, never seen the different between 7-15 and 12-15 play out. And, still won't commit to it.

That's a helluva'n extrapolation!

hooter73
12-13-2015, 11:39 AM
Thanks Dixie for the clarification. Pangos practiced passing in a room in his basement against a mattress when he was 12 years old. A higher touted guard GU has never had, but Perkins I suspect never has practiced the little things such as that, he practices the big things because they are fun and make the news clips (in a good way - not a glory hound way). I for one am not bagging on him at all, he is a freshman. Pangos was an oddity, making like zero mistakes for four years and we got used to it. JP's numbers are all over the chart and stuff like 50% free throw shooting when a part of his game is driving into the lane to draw fouls and then not being able to convert is a freshman level issue. It sucks, but it is a part of the game.

maynard g krebs
12-13-2015, 11:16 PM
No.

Represent lack of commitment to practice and details that matter.

There is no one with his skills that cannot be coached to 66% - probably %70. He's just not there b/c he likely has never felt the need to really practice them. Never been n enough close games to see how critical they are, never seen the different between 7-15 and 12-15 play out. And, still won't commit to it.

Disappointing post from you, as you are somebody who should know better than to make a post like this. David Stockton shot +- 84% ft's his fr year, then 59, 54, and 75 respectively the next 3, in that order. So he decided it wasn't worth the trouble to work on his ft shooting the middle 2 years?

There are a lot of reasons to miss ft's when the lights are on. Nerves/confidence are one. (In Stockton's case, I think it was hard to maintain consistency with that off the shoulder release.) Only the people who are around the players know if they practice ft's or not. Otherwise it's post hoc ergo propter hoc, i.e. looking at an outcome and assuming the cause, when in reality it can be multiple things.

Making an accusation like that against a player, you better have some inside info to back it up. I tried to look up how he shot them in hs and couldn't find anything, but I'd guess it was better. I expect it to improve as the season goes on and his comfort level improves. And I believe it would be better if he'd played all of last year.

Looks to me like a collective crisis of confidence among the guards, all of whom are finding their way in new roles at this level.

TexasZagFan
12-14-2015, 04:33 AM
Disappointing post from you, as you are somebody who should know better than to make a post like this. David Stockton shot +- 84% ft's his fr year, then 59, 54, and 75 respectively the next 3, in that order. So he decided it wasn't worth the trouble to work on his ft shooting the middle 2 years?

There are a lot of reasons to miss ft's when the lights are on. Nerves/confidence are one. (In Stockton's case, I think it was hard to maintain consistency with that off the shoulder release.) Only the people who are around the players know if they practice ft's or not. Otherwise it's post hoc ergo propter hoc, i.e. looking at an outcome and assuming the cause, when in reality it can be multiple things.

Making an accusation like that against a player, you better have some inside info to back it up. I tried to look up how he shot them in hs and couldn't find anything, but I'd guess it was better. I expect it to improve as the season goes on and his comfort level improves. And I believe it would be better if he'd played all of last year.

Looks to me like a collective crisis of confidence among the guards, all of whom are finding their way in new roles at this level.

Usually this stuff evens out. Whenever Ty Cobb was in a slump, he got out of it by focusing on just hitting the ball back at the pitcher. I don't know what our guards have to get them back on their games, but they're too good to stay in this funk.

TheGonzagaFactor
12-14-2015, 07:16 AM
He is no Ammo, but still pretty good at creating his shot from all areas of the court.

No, he isn't.