PDA

View Full Version : this board has gone completely crazy



BULLDOG#1
12-09-2015, 12:27 PM
The latest negativity threads are almost unreadable. I guess maybe we've been spoiled by the massive success over the past few years and it's led out expectations to crazy levels.

The reality:

This team is really good. The guards have yet to play to their potential, but they've shown glimpses. The bigs are great. Bonus and Wiltjer are top tier D1 talents. Karno is not far behind.

Inexperience at the guard position probably cost us the AandM game and the AZ game. Karno probably would have made the difference with AZ, but that's moot. Few was outcoached vs AZ, and that doesn't happen much.

Did folks really think that Melson and Perkins would play like all-americans from the get-go? I didn't. The two losses could have easily been wins and though the losses hurt, it's providing the guards with much needed experience. The team is still in the top-20 and will move up with a win against UCLA on the weekend -- That is a tall order without Karno, but let's see what the young guards are made of...

All the glass-half-empty folks need to look at the positives. 6-2 with a schedule that's taken them across the globe, after replacing 3 very talented starters from last year, with wins against UW and UCON (and an always dangerous coug team and a darn tough Montana team), and battling some injuries (most important Karno)... That's pretty good. Our two best players are very, very, good.

Yes, they have a lot of growing to do and yes, at times they've looked lost... But I'm still pretty high on this team and the growth they can attain during this season. Some solid seasoning of Edwards while Karno is out and some breakout high-shooting-low-turnover games from the guards will turn this ship right around.

Thank you for reading my piece of reason... now you may resume the threads of doomsday scenarios for this team.

GUfan34
12-09-2015, 12:32 PM
Oh, so you're the end all be all.

Everything is awesome cuz you say!

BULLDOG#1
12-09-2015, 12:35 PM
Oh, so you're the end all be all.

Everything is awesome cuz you say!

glad we got that straight.

GUfan34
12-09-2015, 12:52 PM
Who knew you'd need 2 all American guards along with the 2 stud bigs to soundly beat Montana at home!

vandalzag
12-09-2015, 12:59 PM
Who knew you'd need 2 all American guards along with the 2 stud bigs to soundly beat Montana at home!

Does a sound victory count as more than 1 win in the official record?

ProjectMKUltra5
12-09-2015, 01:01 PM
I might tell you I think your opinion is stupid
I might post a gif sarcastically mocking your opinion

But one thing I will never do is tell you how you should act, or how you should interact with Gonzaga. I might disagree with you, vehemently even, but I most certainly respect your right to share your opinion, no matter how negative or positive it is. I'll never make some self righteous thread telling you what the "reality" is and dagnabbit your just not as happy, and appreciative, as you should be because I said so!!

MDABE80
12-09-2015, 01:06 PM
"Did folks really think that Melson and Perkins would play like all-americans from the get-go? I didn't. "<---most did though. SOmehow most of us thought the new kids would step right in like we just finished the Elite 8 game........practice bigins right after we send Gary and Kevin and Wesley off to their next careers. By some miracle, the new guys would just step in without a hitch and were off and running for the FF.
Except it's not happening. Much to my disappointment, nobody has those skills to replace what we lost on graduation in May.

Development is key. Gary Bell needed a little to be effective in the D1 games but Kevin broke out with 8 3's and 34 pt in his first outing.

The board ( and it's ONLY SOME) seems to think Kevin and Gary.........just would switch bodies and the new would just "KNOW" what to do.
Well, that experiment is over. None of the 4 have the same skills. They'll develop them but I have my doubts we'll see this group at the Pangos level for a while.

Few knows. All he can do is work em. Work and train em up so they can be the best they can be.
That will spell disappointment for some. If you all remember, after I saw Silas, I thought he had AA and NBA all over him. Boy.were these last 8 games a waker upper.
If you cannot be patient, you're going to be pissed off. Be patient. We don't have the guys that spoiled us for 4 years. We have raw talent in development.

GU69
12-09-2015, 01:13 PM
I miss El Voce.

scrooner
12-09-2015, 01:14 PM
I think of our guards right now as being like Cole Trickle in Days of Thunder, melting their tires with their driving style. Great driver, great crew chief, great car, but Cole doesn't know how to manage his tires well enough to stay on the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCnHczLfXQc

They need to get the basics figured out, but when they do, LOOK OUT.

TexasZagFan
12-09-2015, 01:16 PM
"Did folks really think that Melson and Perkins would play like all-americans from the get-go? I didn't. "<---most did though. SOmehow most of us thought the new kids would step right in like we just finished the Elite 8 game........practice bigins right after we send Gary and Kevin and Wesley off to their next careers. By some miracle, the new guys would just step in without a hitch and were off and running for the FF.
Except it's not happening. Much to my disappointment, nobody has those skills to replace what we lost on graduation in May.

Development is key. Gary Bell needed a little to be effective in the D1 games but Kevin broke out with 8 3's and 34 pt in his first outing.

The board ( and it's ONLY SOME) seems to think Kevin and Gary.........just would switch bodies and the new would just "KNOW" what to do.
Well, that experiment is over. None of the 4 have the same skills. They'll develop them but I have my doubts we'll see this group at the Pangos level for a while.

Few knows. All he can do is work em. Work and train em up so they can be the best they can be.
That will spell disappointment for some. If you all remember, after I saw Silas, I thought he had AA and NBA all over him. Boy.were these last 8 games a waker upper.
If you cannot be patient, you're going to be pissed off. Be patient. We don't have the guys that spoiled us for 4 years. We have raw talent in development.

At the risk of repeating myself, Tim Hardaway had an even rougher freshman season. Are Josh & Silas in the same class as Tim? After 8 games of their first full season of Div I basketball, I think they are (notwithstanding the fact that Silas had to fill in after Josh's mugging). As for his coach, Haskins was still "The Bear", though it was widely acknowledged that he had mellowed a bit.

Saxon_zag
12-09-2015, 01:21 PM
Think everyone sees the potential in this team. The negative threads haven't really even been that bad..... Perkins gave the game to Arizona and Melson hasn't made a shot for 3 games and seems to force it way too much. Some negativity is warranted

Marcus
12-09-2015, 01:28 PM
This may not be the best example considering how he finished off his career but remember Marquise Carter. He struggled immensely for the first few months, than something just clicked. He played well enough to become the WCC new comer of the year, and handle significant minutes. His game against St. Johns in the NCAA tournament was incredible, 24pts, 6ast, 6rbs, and 2st. Then he hurt his wrist and could hardly move it the next game. The point being that Josh and Silas both seem way more physically gifted and talented than Marquise and knowing that it clicked for him around late December gives me a ton of hope that one day it will just click for them too.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-09-2015, 01:51 PM
The latest negativity threads are almost unreadable. I guess maybe we've been spoiled by the massive success over the past few years and it's led out expectations to crazy levels.
.....

Feel free not to read threads you deem "too negative." .

Over 25% of the way into the season this Zag team has demonstrated an alarming inability to protect the ball, run the offense or make 3-pt jump shots. Zags have one decent win over a UConn team that is not at all a sure thing to be ranked in the top 25 come February. Not sure why anyone thinks NCAA tourney auto bid is a given at this point (or that it's too early to worry about that) because the team I see thus far is definitely going to lose 3-4 WCC games.

Question my loyalty if you want, but I for one will be surprised if this team beats UCLA on Saturday...with or without PK....in which case @ SMU is the only remaining game vs a likely top 25 team (which UCLA is not either, if they don't back up their Kentucky win). Even if Zags improve enough to beat SMU in February, that win alone is not enough of a resume booster to assure an auto bid to NCAA if they fail to win WCC tourney. So I'll go on the record as saying this UCLA game is pretty much a must win for NCAA auto bid consideration for these Zags, though it may not even help much if UCLA falls off a cliff in Pac-12...which I think is a distinct possibility with a Coach Alford team.

This is not negativity, it's reality.

Having said all that, I love Gonzaga, Spokane and (most of :-) GUNation and I will enjoy many many hours of hoop watching, GUBoard posting this season. I'm grateful for these student athletes and coaching staff and wish them all the best...but I will continue posting my unfiltered and at times emotional opinions whether you deem them too negative or not:

It's our Board and we can post how we want to :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYJyVEUaC4

BULLDOG#1
12-09-2015, 02:11 PM
Feel free not to read threads you deem "too negative." We wouldn't want your fragile psyche to get bruised here on the message board.

Over 25% of the way into the season this Zag team has demonstrated an alarming inability to protect the ball, run the offense or make 3-pt jump shots. Zags have one decent win over a UConn team that is not at all a sure thing to be ranked in the top 25 come February. Not sure why anyone thinks NCAA tourney auto bid is a given at this point (or that it's too early to worry about that) because the team I see thus far is definitely going to lose 2-3 WCC games.

Question my loyalty if you want, but I for one will be surprised if this team beats UCLA on Saturday...with or without PK....in which case @ SMU is the only remaining game vs a likely top 25 team (which UCLA is not either, if they don't back up their Kentucky win). Even if Zags improve enough to beat SMU in February, that win alone is not enough of a resume booster to assure an auto bid to NCAA if they fail to win WCC tourney. So I'll go on the record as saying this UCLA game is pretty much a must win for NCAA auto bid consideration for these Zags, though it may not even help much if UCLA falls off a cliff in Pac-12...which I think is a distinct possibility with a Coach Alford team.

This is not negativity, it's reality.

Having said all that, I love Gonzaga, Spokane and (most of :-) GUNation and I will enjoy many many hours of hoop watching, GUBoard posting this season. I'm grateful for these student athletes and coaching staff and wish them all the best...but I will continue posting my unfiltered and at times emotional opinions whether you deem them too negative or not:

It's our Board and we can post how we want to :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYJyVEUaC4

No bruise to my psyche here. Your 'reality' is your opinion... mine is mine. It's just half-full vs half-empty (and maybe how the zags success has altered what should be realistic expectations).

LongIslandZagFan
12-09-2015, 02:18 PM
Classic... Someone says the board has gone very negative and the negative posters attack him (her?) with negativity. Awesome.

https://49.media.tumblr.com/cde20fc2b5009bf8b18cfdcb8ae5188e/tumblr_noys8mkgT11s0my1wo1_250.gif

MontanaCoyote
12-09-2015, 02:29 PM
Old Seattle U alum here. My first post. Been thinking back to SU's 57-58 team. (Hey, anyone remember Elgin Baylor?)

They started 4-5 (with Baylor!) but won 16 of their last 17 games. Finished 24-7. Ranked 18 in last regular season AP poll. Beat SF and Cal on opponents court, beat Kansas State at the Final Four before losing to Kentucky in the national championship game played (of course) in Louisville, KY.

Now before you jump all over a SU guy, I know the Zags don't have an Elgin Baylor. But "we" (OK,
I've become a huge Zags fan) do have an exceptional group of players who, if they get some fire in their gut, continue to improve as a team and get their rock and leader (Karno, "THE PRESENCE")
back could be looking at a season much like SU's in 57-58.

I clearly remember feeling a lot like many of you who have posted some negative comments so far on the ZAG's when SU started 4-5 in '57. I hung in there then and I'm hanging with the ZAG's
Now.

Gonzdb8
12-09-2015, 02:35 PM
The latest negativity threads are almost unreadable

here is an elegant solution to your problem. don't read them. hope that helps.

Zagceo
12-09-2015, 02:48 PM
Old Seattle U alum here. My first post. Been thinking back to SU's 57-58 team. (Hey, anyone remember Elgin Baylor?)

They started 4-5 (with Baylor!) but won 16 of their last 17 games. Finished 24-7. Ranked 18 in last regular season AP poll. Beat SF and Cal on opponents court, beat Kansas State at the Final Four before losing to Kentucky in the national championship game played (of course) in Louisville, KY.

Now before you jump all over a SU guy, I know the Zags don't have an Elgin Baylor. But "we" (OK,
I've become a huge Zags fan) do have an exceptional group of players who, if they get some fire in their gut, continue to improve as a team and get their rock and leader (Karno, "THE PRESENCE")
back could be looking at a season much like SU's in 57-58.

I clearly remember feeling a lot like many of you who have posted some negative comments so far on the ZAG's when SU started 4-5 in '57. I hung in there then and I'm hanging with the ZAG's
Now.

Welcome Coyote……….Nice first post. Love Baylor didn't get to see him play at SU. I'm hoping your right.

The negative comments on the board roll like the tides………..in with AZ loss …….out with UCLA win.

I wonder what a UCLA board would have been like in the 60's/70's under wooden? All positive……..nah…..wouldn't be any fun.

Go Zags

bartruff1
12-09-2015, 02:49 PM
Old Seattle U alum here. My first post. Been thinking back to SU's 57-58 team. (Hey, anyone remember Elgin Baylor?)

They started 4-5 (with Baylor!) but won 16 of their last 17 games. Finished 24-7. Ranked 18 in last regular season AP poll. Beat SF and Cal on opponents court, beat Kansas State at the Final Four before losing to Kentucky in the national championship game played (of course) in Louisville, KY.

Now before you jump all over a SU guy, I know the Zags don't have an Elgin Baylor. But "we" (OK,
I've become a huge Zags fan) do have an exceptional group of players who, if they get some fire in their gut, continue to improve as a team and get their rock and leader (Karno, "THE PRESENCE")
back could be looking at a season much like SU's in 57-58.

I clearly remember feeling a lot like many of you who have posted some negative comments so far on the ZAG's when SU started 4-5 in '57. I hung in there then and I'm hanging with the ZAG's
Now.

I remember Baylor, he was simply a man among boys..I believe he beat SF with a near half court shot....I think that year he led the nation in rebounding......

I didn't get to see the game but we listened to it on a scratchy short wave radio (remember those ?) on the 4th floor at DeSmet....... I will always believe that he and SU got screwed at Kentucky when he was called for two quick fouls.... those were the bad old days when racism was a factor.....

Your right of course, you need only look at even recent history to see what can happen.

Zagceo
12-09-2015, 02:51 PM
Classic... Someone says the board has gone very negative and the negative posters attack him (her?) with negativity. Awesome.

https://49.media.tumblr.com/cde20fc2b5009bf8b18cfdcb8ae5188e/tumblr_noys8mkgT11s0my1wo1_250.gif


Another way to describe it.

A positive poster attacks negative posters in a negative way.:lmao:

BULLDOG#1
12-09-2015, 02:55 PM
here is an elegant solution to your problem. don't read them. hope that helps.

Oh, OK. Thanks. That is elegant.

If fear the damage is done though... I can already imagine the nasty posts if Melson or KD have another o-for or heaven forbid, our freshman point guard has 5 TOs... I guess I may as well read them.

TheZagPhish
12-09-2015, 02:57 PM
I miss El Voce.

:cheers:

Ezag
12-09-2015, 03:25 PM
The latest negativity threads are almost unreadable. I guess maybe we've been spoiled by the massive success over the past few years and it's led out expectations to crazy levels.

The reality:

This team is really good. The guards have yet to play to their potential, but they've shown glimpses. The bigs are great. Bonus and Wiltjer are top tier D1 talents. Karno is not far behind.

Inexperience at the guard position probably cost us the AandM game and the AZ game. Karno probably would have made the difference with AZ, but that's moot. Few was outcoached vs AZ, and that doesn't happen much.

Did folks really think that Melson and Perkins would play like all-americans from the get-go? I didn't. The two losses could have easily been wins and though the losses hurt, it's providing the guards with much needed experience. The team is still in the top-20 and will move up with a win against UCLA on the weekend -- That is a tall order without Karno, but let's see what the young guards are made of...

All the glass-half-empty folks need to look at the positives. 6-2 with a schedule that's taken them across the globe, after replacing 3 very talented starters from last year, with wins against UW and UCON (and an always dangerous coug team and a darn tough Montana team), and battling some injuries (most important Karno)... That's pretty good. Our two best players are very, very, good.

Yes, they have a lot of growing to do and yes, at times they've looked lost... But I'm still pretty high on this team and the growth they can attain during this season. Some solid seasoning of Edwards while Karno is out and some breakout high-shooting-low-turnover games from the guards will turn this ship right around.

Thank you for reading my piece of reason... now you may resume the threads of doomsday scenarios for this team.

This team is really really good looking!

https://thekades.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ridiculouslygoodlooking.jpg

GUfan34
12-09-2015, 03:29 PM
Ahh so we've got two Tim Hardaways, we just have to be patient.

Lol

ZagNative
12-09-2015, 03:49 PM
BULLDOG#1, there's nothing we can do about the negativity, so my solution is to wait to read threads until we start experiencing satisfying wins once again.

BTW, it was amusing to me to note how many of the posters on this thread are already on my ignore list.

2wiceright
12-09-2015, 04:18 PM
Oh, OK. Thanks. That is elegant.

If fear the damage is done though... I can already imagine the nasty posts if Melson or KD have another o-for or heaven forbid, our freshman point guard has 5 TOs... I guess I may as well read them.

Totally agree Bulldog and Abe.... Plenty of room for "constructive criticism". But too many whiners that "By GOD" are going to bash, re-hash same old sh@#! every game from here till the lights come on and we end up Ok (or almost as good as hoped) by end of season! Until then it'd be so nice to get back to interesting discourse and wish some of gloom and doom prophets go root for Kentucky...We all have the JMHO clause....

Still better than beating a dead horse:horse:! It was nice just seeing Emac hit some shots and hustle his arse off against a good Montana team- to say nothing of Perkins sweet assists and clutch shot and free throws with a minute left in the game. See what I did there? Gonna take time folks... might as well enjoy watching the progress, cutting some slack, and remember we all (most hopefully) have real lives outside of rooting for our beloved Bulldogs.... Few has shown he's not afraid to play walk-ons and has done all he can to light that fire (What the #$@#! else is there to say????)

2wiceright
12-09-2015, 04:23 PM
BULLDOG#1, there's nothing we can do about the negativity, so my solution is to wait to read threads until we start experiencing satisfying wins once again.

BTW, it was amusing to me to note how many of the posters on this thread are already on my ignore list.

THANK YOU Zag Native!... Even though I don't post much it used to be so nice to come on here and read intelligent discourse.... You hit the nail on the head (as usual!!!).

bartruff1
12-09-2015, 04:28 PM
The board is just as crazy when it is positive as it is when it is negative.

If they beat UCLA and win 4 or 5 games in a row..there will be talk about Final Four....top ten ratings....# 1 seeding....ect....

The good news is the board has little or no effect on what actually happens.

Baseline
12-09-2015, 04:33 PM
To me the whole season will be indicated by the UCLA game and the Pepperdine game. If those are wins then all is right with the world. Lose either and it would be smart to plan on winning the tournament to get into the playoffs.
I hope my glass half empty is wrong, but we are about 1/3 into the schedule and much of the learning should be done and I don't see that happening.

DixieZag
12-09-2015, 04:41 PM
Said it a million times, want to see a crazy board, go look at SEC or Big 12 football boards, they make this board look like it has Augustinian depth of thought.

There is nothing wrong or "negative" about critiquing play. It is when the critique of play overlaps into critique of the person, his values, his ..... all that.

They are not grown men. They are not paid. They are students. They handle themselves well. Talking about too much reliance on a jump shot is plenty.

krozman
12-09-2015, 04:59 PM
When you post a thread where the topic of discussion is your perception of "excessive negativity" you get what you deserve... which is a reminder that your opinion isn't valid. Instead of attacking the negativity of the poster, you should attack the content. Several posters, for example, correctly point out that all Americans are not made overnight and we need to re evaluate our expectations. So if you're incapable of arguing correctly it's probably best to go full zagnative and put your head in the sand with the ignore list.

23dpg
12-09-2015, 05:37 PM
I might tell you I think your opinion is stupid
I might post a gif sarcastically mocking your opinion

But one thing I will never do is tell you how you should act, or how you should interact with Gonzaga. I might disagree with you, vehemently even, but I most certainly respect your right to share your opinion, no matter how negative or positive it is. I'll never make some self righteous thread telling you what the "reality" is and dagnabbit your just not as happy, and appreciative, as you should be because I said so!!

Did someone do that? It seems like the OP is basically saying the negative posters are stupid..paraphrasing, and then he/she writes a literary GIF.
I'm not taking sides. Just asking.

willandi
12-09-2015, 08:28 PM
With all the negative posts, thought I would share a positive one.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12345651_10207551065069256_1450785828229147310_n.j pg?oh=844f6b912ccee82ff3d238558c8c4223&oe=56E3A67C

RenoZag
12-09-2015, 08:35 PM
I don't think the board is acting any differently than it has in the past. Some of the user names are different but the gamut of opinions is more or less the same.

It's as predictable as the editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal.


http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x375/RenoZag/Dick%20from%20the%20internet_zps1kiktjby.png (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/RenoZag/media/Dick%20from%20the%20internet_zps1kiktjby.png.html)

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-09-2015, 08:37 PM
When you post a thread where the topic of discussion is your perception of "excessive negativity" you get what you deserve... which is a reminder that your opinion isn't valid. Instead of attacking the negativity of the poster, you should attack the content. Several posters, for example, correctly point out that all Americans are not made overnight and we need to re evaluate our expectations. So if you're incapable of arguing correctly it's probably best to go full zagnative and put your head in the sand with the ignore list.

This is what I meant to say, I'm just not mature enough 😀


One GUNation under Mt Spokane ��
Go Zags!

cggonzaga
12-09-2015, 11:28 PM
I think of our guards right now as being like Cole Trickle in Days of Thunder, melting their tires with their driving style. Great driver, great crew chief, great car, but Cole doesn't know how to manage his tires well enough to stay on the track.

This is brilliant!

Ezag
12-10-2015, 09:52 AM
BULLDOG#1, there's nothing we can do about the negativity, so my solution is to wait to read threads until we start experiencing satisfying wins once again.

BTW, it was amusing to me to note how many of the posters on this thread are already on my ignore list.

I am sure I am on your ignore list or soon will be, but what do you consider satisfying wins? Surely not most WCC wins?

bartruff1
12-10-2015, 10:27 AM
I think a WCC is satisfying, especially on the road.

Reborn
12-10-2015, 10:32 AM
I truly doubt that there is one person who posts on this forum believes that any of our guards were going to be All-American guards this year. However, I believe many of us thought that they would be better than they have played in certain games. I know I thought they would be better at the beginning of the season. I thought Perkins would be able to handle the ball better and pass better. He was supposed to be one of the best point-guards in his class. I thought Melson would be a better shooter, and I felt he would be more confident this year. I was totally wrong about both these players, and yet I have not given up on them. I think Perkins will be fine, and if we don't see change in Melson's shooting I think most fans will begin to compare him to Meech. I am not there yet, but I will be if things don't start changing soon.

I think that most of the criticism (and I don't call criticism negativity either) has been right on. I respect most of the posters because I believe that this board should always be a place where people can speak their minds. If and when the criticisms become "negative" (which I mean as hurtful and unjust) then it is the responsibility of our moderators to delete those posts from the public view. I pretty much have always enjoyed this board. I tend to side with bloggers who feel good about criticizing certain areas of play when the criticism is warranted. This includes criticizing the coaches, and individual players. If we were unable to do this, then this would never be the mbb forum that it is. Without freedom to me there is nothing, and yes our freedoms should be responsible and thought out. I am not one who has ever pushed an ignor button, and I have always felt that those who do that are very closed minded people, and control "freaks." But people can do that because they have that option and that freedom, and I am sure they NEED to do it in order to feel the peace of mind they need. I am a teacher and have taught for 28 years, and thank God I have developed the skill of being open minded and accepting of others' opinions. It the profession of teaching we teacher see a lot of anger and verbal assults that would make this board look like kindergarden.

gonzagafan62
12-10-2015, 10:35 AM
It's why I'm not here most of the time. Few has done a great job over the years building the program. Yet the mark few haters only come around when we are in down years. These so called "fans" are probably around 25-30 and have no idea what it's like to actually suck (miss tournament when fewer than 20 games) .... Yeah stfu and stay out. You guys are terrible

Ikancagin
12-10-2015, 10:59 AM
My recollection is that in the Kentucky game Baylor also played with a full case of the flu and SU still performed admirably.