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View Full Version : GONZAGA EXCEPTIONALISM (long)



upan8th
12-06-2015, 10:06 PM
In possession of 18 grueling hours of reluctantly accepted, force-fed, Gonzaga schooling in philosophy, I feel compelled to offer these dime store thoughts (not mine, of course) regarding GU's recent implosion on the court: "Concepts and theories cannot fully describe ultimate reality due to the inaccessibility to all elements of emergent reality, and, due to the inherent unknowability of all that remains to be discovered and understood. Thus, some disconnect from reality is inevitable as humans are caught between illusion and reality. The fundamental problem of illusion seizing individuals' awareness is the resulting reluctance to see things as they really are and to be seen without illusion."

It's an essay test. The answers are (nominally) these: 1) Are the beliefs of some (often older) posters that Gonzaga's mens' basketball has advanced exceptionally, in a relatively Few years from a Big Sky rivalry with Weber State to an unprecedented (16 year or whatever) permanent placement in the NC2A tournament enough? Is all is well and good? The answer is hell, yes! See Weber State, or any of GU's former colleagues in the Big Sky. See any of GU's current rivals in the WCC. Or, if perspiration has blurred the ink on your palm, casually Google BYU vs Gonzaga on your phone. 2) Do the beliefs of another (generally younger) group posting that they are sick and tired of the Zag's coaching staff over-promising and under-delivering year after year, have merit? In essence, does the current GU coaching staff and team offer proof of the controversial Peter Principle, e.g. a program (business) may reach undeserved heights beyond the talents of management, but can never ascend above the limitations of flawed leaders? The answer to that tricky question must be referred to the original philosophical posit. It remains to be seen.To offer a definitive answer is, lacking empirical evidence yet to be revealed, nothing more than speculation. At GU, that's not acceptable.

I can, happily, offer a bromide for GU fans (we all hold that in common) which has about it the stink of truth: "There is no pleasure without a tincture of bitterness."

sittingon50
12-06-2015, 10:50 PM
Oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......... ............

GrizZAG
12-06-2015, 10:55 PM
I wonder what Ghandi or Dennis Rodman would say?

maynard g krebs
12-06-2015, 11:54 PM
I wonder what Ghandi or Dennis Rodman would say?

If talking to each other, "nice dress" comes to mind.

bartruff1
12-07-2015, 03:52 AM
You realize (I hope) that the Peter Principle is satire .... a joke....full of wit and sarcasm but never intended as a insight to managerial incompetence.

I am not aware that the Coaching Staff has ever promised anything, much less over promised.

I seems to me that some fans, for their own reasons, make their own unrealistic assumptions about the success of the team.

If you want to make a distinction, it is my opinion that the older fans feel grateful and the younger fans feel entitled.

Outraged
12-07-2015, 04:00 AM
The argument supports the notion of program in option one while option two is merely a vision of team. The profiling of the two classes is restricted to age with the older being far sighted and the younger near sighted. This creates a double jeopordy because the answer comes in the form of a question.

Bogozags
12-07-2015, 04:42 AM
You realize (I hope) that the Peter Principle is satire .... a joke....full of wit and sarcasm but never intended as a insight to managerial incompetence.

I am not aware that the Coaching Staff has ever promised anything, much less over promised.

I seems to me that some fans, for their own reasons, make their own unrealistic assumptions about the success of the team.

If you want to make a distinction, it is my opinion that the older fans feel grateful and the younger fans feel entitled.

Bart, once again you're spot on!

TexasZagFan
12-07-2015, 04:53 AM
In possession of 18 grueling hours of reluctantly accepted, force-fed, Gonzaga schooling in philosophy, I feel compelled to offer these dime store thoughts (not mine, of course) regarding GU's recent implosion on the court: "Concepts and theories cannot fully describe ultimate reality due to the inaccessibility to all elements of emergent reality, and, due to the inherent unknowability of all that remains to be discovered and understood. Thus, some disconnect from reality is inevitable as humans are caught between illusion and reality. The fundamental problem of illusion seizing individuals' awareness is the resulting reluctance to see things as they really are and to be seen without illusion."

It's an essay test. The answers are (nominally) these: 1) Are the beliefs of some (often older) posters that Gonzaga's mens' basketball has advanced exceptionally, in a relatively Few years from a Big Sky rivalry with Weber State to an unprecedented (16 year or whatever) permanent placement in the NC2A tournament enough? Is all is well and good? The answer is hell, yes! See Weber State, or any of GU's former colleagues in the Big Sky. See any of GU's current rivals in the WCC. Or, if perspiration has blurred the ink on your palm, casually Google BYU vs Gonzaga on your phone. 2) Do the beliefs of another (generally younger) group posting that they are sick and tired of the Zag's coaching staff over-promising and under-delivering year after year, have merit? In essence, does the current GU coaching staff and team offer proof of the controversial Peter Principle, e.g. a program (business) may reach undeserved heights beyond the talents of management, but can never ascend above the limitations of flawed leaders? The answer to that tricky question must be referred to the original philosophical posit. It remains to be seen.To offer a definitive answer is, lacking empirical evidence yet to be revealed, nothing more than speculation. At GU, that's not acceptable.

I can, happily, offer a bromide for GU fans (we all hold that in common) which has about it the stink of truth: "There is no pleasure without a tincture of bitterness."

I'm sorry you had to suffer through 18 grueling hours of philosophy. One of the few classes I remember was a senior philosophy course under the tutelage of Fr. Gerry Kohls, SJ. His class is one of the few I have vivid memories of, thanks to the passage of time.

I was one of two students (of 14) who was not a philosophy or theology major, yet I did well on the first assignment, getting an A-. I was dumbstruck, as my stance was opposite from the rest of the class. When I went to see him regarding this, he laughed and replied, "Tex, in philosophy, it's not what you say, but how you say it. Besides, philosophy's nothing but a bunch of bull$hit."

I eventually earned a solid B, and I'm as proud of that B as any A I received at GU.

As to any further response, Bart spoke for me.

As to the current state of the Zags, we'll have these ups and downs the rest of the year due to our youth in the backcourt. As in the past, Zag teams need to play with fire in their hair, instead of playing not to lose.

soccerdud
12-07-2015, 10:38 AM
If talking to each other, "nice dress" comes to mind.

this post deserves much quoting and at least a smattering of applause.

Zagger
12-07-2015, 11:03 AM
Originally Posted by maynard g krebs ...
If talking to each other, "nice dress" comes to mind.


this post deserves much quoting and at least a smattering of applause.

Ha, Ha, Hahhhhh, spit, cough, gag, Ha, Ha, Ha, spit, eyes watering, Ha, Ha ..... !
Now I'm caught wondering which of the two would have the larger smile!

"nice dress" is the funniest thing I've seen in weeks - if not months! Full applause here!

Go Zags!

Nevada Don
12-07-2015, 11:26 AM
If talking to each other, "nice dress" comes to mind.

Outstanding line !!!

B Wayne
12-07-2015, 11:45 AM
Marijuana is legal in Washington. Correct?

bigblahla
12-07-2015, 11:54 AM
Marijuana is legal in Washington. Correct?

Huhhhhhh?

zag buddy
12-07-2015, 12:14 PM
Having not taking philosophy my thoughts are that a team is a microcosm of life whereby you have the individual with his ego forced to adapt to a community goal and to do it with passion, energy and due diligence while making a total commitment to put the outcome of the game under the direction of a group (coaches) that he is totally committed to and trusts. I do not believe that the peter principle is appropriate because my understanding of it is that a person is raised to his level of incompetence and stays there for the duration of his tenure. Our team is definitely not in that category.

sittingon50
12-07-2015, 12:32 PM
Fortunately, a specific background in science has helped me keep up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2MhMsLn9B0

mtnZag
12-07-2015, 12:33 PM
I like to rematch our games but I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

This is...by far...the worse Gonzaga game ever...and I have seen a truckload of games.

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief !?

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-07-2015, 01:24 PM
If you want to make a distinction, it is my opinion that the older fans feel grateful and the younger fans feel entitled.

Shoot. I used to think I was one of the younger fans.

75Zag
12-07-2015, 01:32 PM
I did my 12 or 14 or 16 hours of Theology and Philosophy as part of the GU core, and I don't particularly regret it.
Becoming an adult and advocating for human rights, fairness and equality was a good thing.
Basketball is an interesting diversion.
Life is more important.

sittingon50
12-07-2015, 07:58 PM
Well said, 75.

GrizZAG
12-07-2015, 08:48 PM
If talking to each other, "nice dress" comes to mind.

Perfect!

Reborn
12-07-2015, 09:26 PM
A nice fancy thread upman8th, and some nice philosophical ideas. As for me, I've never liked being put into a "group" or a box. There are certainly more modern, and enlightened ideas in philosophy that for me would give a better picture of what is going on in ZagNation. The notions you present, for me or too simple. It's like 1 + 1 equals 2. Or 1-1 =0. You do not describe me in either group. And I would fit into both groups, at least parts of me, and there could be five or one hundred other groups that I could fit into. In this game, in this fan base base, it is not one or the other, or neither, it is that we are all right. And that we all love the Zags, believe in them, hope for them, and yes even bleed for them. Like the players we are Zags!!! It's not we and them. It's us. It's all of us with different voices to express our love for the team and deepest hope. It's more like a choir or a symphony then a two piece band or a duet. I love to hear all of the voices, and for those who know me well, know I have always, over the years, stood up for and supported everyone to speak their mind REGARDLESS. There was a time I got banned from Zag this board because of my views. I don't write here to be popular, and I know some of you don't like that...and I have learned over the years to temper my emotions down more often then not...But I got fired up today from reading the posts on this board. And to me, that's why GUNations is the best MBB Forum in the country. A good forum SHOULD get us fired up. Or it should settle us down and comfort us. Or whatever else you need and get from this board. It's great. ZagNation is great. And I love the Zags!!! And so do you.

Go Zags!!!

gonzagafan62
12-08-2015, 05:15 PM
You realize (I hope) that the Peter Principle is satire .... a joke....full of wit and sarcasm but never intended as a insight to managerial incompetence.

I am not aware that the Coaching Staff has ever promised anything, much less over promised.

I seems to me that some fans, for their own reasons, make their own unrealistic assumptions about the success of the team.

If you want to make a distinction, it is my opinion that the older fans feel grateful and the younger fans feel entitled.

I don't feel entitled to one game or one single basket. Every single thing is earned. Besides that though you are spot on. (About other fans of course)