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soupy07
12-05-2015, 02:10 PM
Turnovers, guard play...barf

doctorzag
12-05-2015, 02:12 PM
Thankfully we have Nigel coming in next year.

ZagaZags
12-05-2015, 02:13 PM
Turnovers, guard play...barf

I miss Pangs so bad. Thank God we have NWG for next season.

Pleasant Peninsula
12-05-2015, 02:13 PM
I've hardly ever seen Gonzaga look so pathetic and completely unable to compete. The commentators were so right to be suspect of our guard play. It was unbelievably atrocious. Few was typically unable to make adjustments against a top 25 team.

This is a big-time program that can't compete when they play other big time programs.

Pathetic.

Vanzagger
12-05-2015, 02:13 PM
Because when we went without a fg the last 5 1/2 min vs Duke last April it was Josh's fault

ZagaZags
12-05-2015, 02:14 PM
Perkins gets player of the game on Arizona board.

GUfan34
12-05-2015, 02:15 PM
Yeah Pangos and Bell are greatly missed

Saxon_zag
12-05-2015, 02:16 PM
Worst shape the back court has been in 15 plus years. Few constantly outcoached by top tier coaches.. Check our record against the top 25 the last 5 or so years. Pathetic

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:16 PM
Absolutely pathetic.


Sean Miller makes half time adjustments


Mark Few ####s pants.


I'm so fed up with this same story every year. Every single year


This team is once again absolutely terrible in crunch time? Ever wonder why? Bc Mark Few is. The DNA and make up of every Gonzaga team does this, and that's bc they take after the Head Coach.

How many more years do us passionate fans put up with this bc other GU fans are content with being a Top 25 team that never wins the big game in the regular season or the post season

whatazag
12-05-2015, 02:16 PM
I don't know if all of these threads bemoaning our guard play will be consolidated, but if Perkins had played like he did vs wazzu today, we win the game. I don't know what the problem was, but not clutch shooting or handling the ball today.

zagsfanforlife
12-05-2015, 02:17 PM
Few apologists will come to his defense, but as i said in game thread, I cant continue to think its coincidence that when we play big games, one team makes good halftime adjustments, the other team (GU), doesnt. Cant remember 1 team in the past that was not prone to giving up big leads.

soupy07
12-05-2015, 02:18 PM
Because when we went without a fg the last 5 1/2 min vs Duke last April it was Josh's fault


(a) Not sure what Duke has to do with today's game...?
(b) Guard play in general stunk

gonzagafan62
12-05-2015, 02:18 PM
Absolutely pathetic.


Sean Miller makes half time adjustments


Mark Few ####s pants.


I'm so fed up with this same story every year. Every single year


This team is once again absolutely terrible in crunch time? Ever wonder why? Bc Mark Few is. The DNA and make up of every Gonzaga team does this, and that's bc they take after the Head Coach.

How many more years do us passionate fans put up with this bc other GU fans are content with being a Top 25 team that never wins the big game in the regular season or the post season

I'm glad you are not the athletic director Bc you'd be terrible.

Go damn zags

23dpg
12-05-2015, 02:19 PM
Absolutely pathetic.


Sean Miller makes half time adjustments


Mark Few ####s pants.


I'm so fed up with this same story every year. Every single year


This team is once again absolutely terrible in crunch time? Ever wonder why? Bc Mark Few is. The DNA and make up of every Gonzaga team does this, and that's bc they take after the Head Coach.

How many more years do us passionate fans put up with this bc other GU fans are content with being a Top 25 team that never wins the big game in the regular season or the post season

Ummm, I can't tell. Are you upset?

I'm expecting a lot of rants. Some will be correct, some will be venting, some will be ridiculous. Guess where I put yours?

Pleasant Peninsula
12-05-2015, 02:19 PM
Exactly, Saxon. The pollyannas will be here soon to be apologists for Gonzaga's repeated failure to be able to defeat other top programs, but this game was a microcosm of this program's struggles. Gonzaga is a better, more talented team than Arizona. Yet we get throttled in the second half and look completely pathetic down the stretch. I can't even.

Goshzagit
12-05-2015, 02:19 PM
Not athletic enough to make athletic plays/shots, nor skilled enough to make skilled plays/shots.

Between defensive breakdowns, careless TO's, & missed shots...

They just aren't very good.

Fortunately, help is on the way i.e. NWG and experience.

mtzaga
12-05-2015, 02:20 PM
I get to read two forum meltdowns today. NDSU is leading the Griz 21-0 at half and the folks on eGriz are not happy.

GrizZAG
12-05-2015, 02:20 PM
A
Absolutely pathetic.


Sean Miller makes half time adjustments


Mark Few ####s pants.


I'm so fed up with this same story every year. Every single year


This team is once again absolutely terrible in crunch time? Ever wonder why? Bc Mark Few is. The DNA and make up of every Gonzaga team does this, and that's bc they take after the Head Coach.

How many more years do us passionate fans put up with this bc other GU fans are content with being a Top 25 team that never wins the big game in the regular season or the post season

Dumbest post ever

TacomaZAG
12-05-2015, 02:20 PM
Same Old Story...............

Few teams can't finish against elite competition, haven't been able to for over a decade. We scored 25 points total in the 2nd half, at home, including 1 FG in the last 6:54.

This is a repeating issue that is systemic to the program, not sure how to do much about it. Nice and loose in the first half. No adjustments at halftime and coach gets tighter and tighter as the second half progresses. Stupid TO's, including 5 in a row midway through the half.

The guards were 0-7 from behind the arc, kind of hard to beat a good team with that kind of guard play..................

On the positive, can't ask for anything more from the front court.

This was a HORRIBLE loss today, and will come back to haunt the guys on Selection Sunday.

Go ZAGS

Ezag
12-05-2015, 02:21 PM
Our guards will be fine against WCC guards but against the top 25 teams not that great or consistent.

whatazag
12-05-2015, 02:21 PM
This game was decided by our turnovers and their 5* guards taking over. Not sure how much Few can do about that.

Pleasant Peninsula
12-05-2015, 02:21 PM
Ummm, I can't tell. Are you upset?

I'm expecting a lot of rants. Some will be correct, some will be venting, some will be ridiculous. Guess where I put yours?

Your and your ilk's inability to see reality is ridiculous. I'm sure you really enjoy WCC championships, though. Good for you.

GUfan34
12-05-2015, 02:21 PM
Because when we went without a fg the last 5 1/2 min vs Duke last April it was Josh's fault


Pangos and Bell were never going to get us to the promise land... But what we have now probably won't even get us to the 3rd round

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:21 PM
I'm glad you are not the athletic director Bc you'd be terrible.

Go damn zags

Yes I know. Anyone who thinks Mark Few is a terrible coach on this board is stupid.

Anyone who is a GU fan and doesn't accept mediocrity is stupid.

I know.

Zags11
12-05-2015, 02:22 PM
It was horrible loss.

Ezag
12-05-2015, 02:23 PM
Guard U this year is Guard P.U.

GrizZAG
12-05-2015, 02:23 PM
Guard play is killing us. Moments of brilliance but ......

ZagHouse
12-05-2015, 02:23 PM
It was a weird game to watch. At no point did I feel Arizona was a better team, but they attacked in the second half and we looked like we have in most games this year after the first few minutes of the second. It's like they build a comfortable lead and that is their victory. The turning point for me was the two missed lay ups by EMac. That and part of me feels Karno could have gone but because one of Arizona's was out, Few played the friendly coach card to make it even.

23dpg
12-05-2015, 02:24 PM
Your and your ilk's inability to see reality is ridiculous. I'm sure you really enjoy WCC championships, though. Good for you.

Your version of reality does not jibe with most knowledgable basketball observers. But maybe you are the correct one.
Btw, I'm in no way happy with this result. Gonzaga should have won in my opinion. But I think you take it way too far.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:24 PM
A

Dumbest post ever

Yep. Actually you are right. After reading your response, you really opened my eyes.

Forget that what I said is 100% truth, right? Lol

This is precisely why Mark Few will never change. Nobody will call him out on his lack of ability to make adjustments.


But hey we will run through the WCC, maybe lose 2-3 conference games and you guys will all praise how Mark Few once again wins 25 games with a bad team after we get bounced in the 2nd round.

I get it.

Vanzagger
12-05-2015, 02:24 PM
Few made first Elite 8 last year and will have many chances to go further. He is getting better. Stay together Zags

GUfan34
12-05-2015, 02:25 PM
It has nothing to do with athleticism.

Melson, Perkins, and McClellan are plenty athletic.

Still gotta play basketball. Pangos and Bell lacked athleticism but were basketball players

75Zag
12-05-2015, 02:25 PM
A difficult loss to accept, but hopefully GU moves forward from this.

Go Bulldogs!

Ezag
12-05-2015, 02:25 PM
Far worse than loss to A&M. A&M was actually pretty good and on neutral floor. We lost this on our home court. Arizona's not as good as they have been and just average by their standards, very beatable. Few said days before season started he was concerned about guard play....that seems to be mostly confirmed now

Baseline
12-05-2015, 02:25 PM
Right now I'm very worried about where we finish in the WCC, it's no longer obvious.

gonzagafan62
12-05-2015, 02:26 PM
U
Yes I know. Anyone who thinks Mark Few is a terrible coach on this board is stupid.

Anyone who is a GU fan and doesn't accept mediocrity is stupid.

I know.

Seriously, who else would you hire to come to Spokane? Seriously? Think about it. Would would venture out and coach at gonzaga? We get robbed against Texas A&M and get beat by Arizona on a game they had the ball bounce their way today. Yeah few could have done things differently today as most other big games but what happens if those two McClellan easy layups go in? Can you blame few for those missed layup a? That's four damn points! Four points that would have seriously changed the game. Go troll somewhere else.

Go damn zags!

Zag4Hire
12-05-2015, 02:26 PM
Magnified since it was a solid OOC win slipped through the fingers. What are you going to build your resume on now, supposing GU even wins? UCLA? Only helped by their UK win but if they stink the rest of the season, it will be suspect. The Vols? I saw the game where they got smoked by George Washington and they look pretty awful.

Smells like a year where they have to run the table in WCC and probably only extinguish doubts by getting the auto-bid. Even in a very down year is what drives me nuts. Spangs must be happy to be with OU.

Birddog
12-05-2015, 02:27 PM
Lots of stuff to complain about, guards loose handles, guards inability to finish at the rim, Offensive RB's, but #1 is 2nd half coaching, it sucked big time. I know the players have to make plays, but you have to have the right personnel on the floor too.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:27 PM
Ummm, I can't tell. Are you upset?

I'm expecting a lot of rants. Some will be correct, some will be venting, some will be ridiculous. Guess where I put yours?

Don't care about an opinion of someone who lives in denial.

Before you call someone an idiot and tell them they are ridiculous or upset, why don't you try and prove them wrong? Is that asking too much, you would rather just blow it off and tell them they are mad lol

gonzagafan62
12-05-2015, 02:29 PM
Yep. Actually you are right. After reading your response, you really opened my eyes.

Forget that what I said is 100% truth, right? Lol

This is precisely why Mark Few will never change. Nobody will call him out on his lack of ability to make adjustments.


But hey we will run through the WCC, maybe lose 2-3 conference games and you guys will all praise how Mark Few once again wins 25 games with a bad team after we get bounced in the 2nd round.

I get it.

Actually none of what you've said is the truth. We are just now sneaking into the top 15 programs nationally. If we were in the top 5 and doing this then yeah fire the coach but we are nowhere near and still trying to improve the program. Know your role dude.

Go damn zags!

jim77
12-05-2015, 02:29 PM
This will not be easy to fix cause the PG is a very poor ball handler.....he spends so much effort trying to hang onto the ball that he losses his court awareness. GO BISON.

23dpg
12-05-2015, 02:29 PM
If you think Few is a terrible coach, that's your right but I'd say you'd be in the vast majority. Do you really think that or are you just pissed?

BTW, merging all this into a thread titled "Guards" is a mistake.

soupy07
12-05-2015, 02:30 PM
Guard play is killing us. Moments of brilliance but ......

Exactly. I think this is what so frustrating/infuriating. For brief periods you can just see how good these guys can be but so far we only seen glimpses. The season is long, its a journey, I get it...but this game was the Zags for the taking.

zagfan1
12-05-2015, 02:30 PM
R E L A X ! One game and it was not Few's fault. Perkins was way too sloppy and that wore off on the team for a crucial stretch. We stopped being aggressive and got nervous. The key is learn from the pressure defense and get better. We still have upside this year.

23dpg
12-05-2015, 02:30 PM
Don't care about an opinion of someone who lives in denial.

Before you call someone an idiot and tell them they are ridiculous or upset, why don't you try and prove them wrong? Is that asking too much, you would rather just blow it off and tell them they are mad lol

I didn't call you or anyone else an idiot.

75Zag
12-05-2015, 02:30 PM
U

Seriously, who else would you hire to come to Spokane? Seriously? Think about it. Would would venture out and coach at gonzaga? ....

Go damn zags!

Notwithstanding your hypothetical question, I am fairly confident that a joint offer from Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos could entice John Calipari to coach at GU.

Not saying it would be good or bad, but if you want to talk hypotheticals, I think that is one.

Go Bulldogs!

Ezag
12-05-2015, 02:31 PM
Did the guards not learn anything from Pangos and Bell last year? ....in practice and watching every game

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:31 PM
U

Seriously, who else would you hire to come to Spokane? Seriously? Think about it. Would would venture out and coach at gonzaga? We get robbed against Texas A&M and get beat by Arizona on a game they had the ball bounce their way today. Yeah few could have done things differently today as most other big games but what happens if those two McClellan easy layups go in? Can you blame few for those missed layup a? That's four damn points! Four points that would have seriously changed the game. Go troll somewhere else.

Go damn zags!

Do you know what a troll is? Apparently not.

Question, do you even know what adjustment Sean Miller made that changed the game?

I doubt you do. Casual fans that are just happy to make the NCAA tourney every year killed the possibility of GU ever being a power house.

I can't even comprehend the fact that you seriously think there's no one, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, that could take this program to the next level. Naive and ignorant.

Id start by calling Brad Stevens. Better yet, id find the next Brad Stevens.

Ezag
12-05-2015, 02:33 PM
I doubt Miller had to make that many adjustments. Many of those turnovers were not even forced

Pleasant Peninsula
12-05-2015, 02:33 PM
U

Seriously, who else would you hire to come to Spokane? Seriously? Think about it. Would would venture out and coach at gonzaga? We get robbed against Texas A&M and get beat by Arizona on a game they had the ball bounce their way today. Yeah few could have done things differently today as most other big games but what happens if those two McClellan easy layups go in? Can you blame few for those missed layup a? That's four damn points! Four points that would have seriously changed the game. Go troll somewhere else.

Go damn zags!

You're right. Mark Few is one of the best program builders in college basketball history. Truly.

He's an awful in-game coach against other top programs/coaches and the record indicates it.

Ezag
12-05-2015, 02:34 PM
I love Few but he needs some guard help or this is gonna be a long year

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:34 PM
Actually none of what you've said is the truth. We are just now sneaking into the top 15 programs nationally. If we were in the top 5 and doing this then yeah fire the coach but we are nowhere near and still trying to improve the program. Know your role dude.

Go damn zags!

What? That's irrelevant "dude". We are referring to Mark Fews inability to win big games bc he continues to get out coached bc he fails to make any adjustments in the 2nd half to counter the other coaches adjustments

Is Arizona a Top 15 program? I'm pretty sure we should of beaten them last year and this year? Guess what the difference was both years?

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:34 PM
I doubt Miller had to make that many adjustments. Many of those turnovers were not even forced

Actually, you are wrong.

jim77
12-05-2015, 02:35 PM
Adjustments weren't the problem....AZ put pressure on our PG who is NOT a good ball handler....he isn't strong with the ball. If I was an opposing team I'd pressure that kid from the get go. GO BISON...TOUCHDOWN!

gonzagafan62
12-05-2015, 02:36 PM
It was horrible loss.


Do you know what a troll is? Apparently not.

Question, do you even know what adjustment Sean Miller made that changed the game?

I doubt you do. Casual fans that are just happy to make the NCAA tourney every year killed the possibility of GU ever being a power house.

I can't even comprehend the fact that you seriously think there's no one, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, that could take this program to the next level. Naive and ignorant.

Id start by calling Brad Stevens. Better yet, id find the next Brad Stevens.

Finding the next Brad Stevens is like finding the next gonzaga ... Ain't going to happen in my lifetime. Nice try at a comeback.

bballbeachbum
12-05-2015, 02:38 PM
Our guards will be fine against WCC guards but against the top 25 teams not that great or consistent.

very fair assessment imo. AZ dared Josh, he wasn't ready today for that in the second half. we'll see how he responds or if he's already toast like some clearly think. toughness and confidence with the dribble can't be faked that's for sure, got some work to do to make himself believe he can, like he has shown that he can do at times. tougher with the dribble

Bing
12-05-2015, 02:40 PM
W[QUOTE=uZiGiZaG;1151853

id find the next Brad Stevens.[/QUOTE]

Ha ha ha ha ha

Thanks for giving me a belly laugh on this dismal day. Ha ha ha ha ha

basketballzag
12-05-2015, 02:40 PM
Guard U this year is Guard P.U.

Our guards are athletic but mediocre at this point in the season. None of them will sniff any foreign professional team as of right now.
Losing Angel Nunez was a mistake as we could have really used him.
We need another to recruit another PG who has ball handling and court awareness skills as we currently lack that on this team at this juncture which is very disappointing

Good to see Wiltjer become the leader on the court today but he can't lead players into becoming more talented.

The team misses Pangos/Bell tremendously.

Karno playing wouldn't have made any difference today.

I would like to see Triano run the point in the next game for 10 mins.

btzag
12-05-2015, 02:40 PM
Your and your ilk's inability to see reality is ridiculous. I'm sure you really enjoy WCC championships, though. Good for you.

I'm laughing thinking of Few trying to 'coach up' a win by explaining to our guards not to suck or to Wiltjer and Sabonis not to miss point blank layups inside the last minute or Sabonis missing the front end of a 1and1 down the stretch. Players have to make plays and holy crap did the team not make ANY plays down the stretch. Listen to the Bilas commentary for an unbiased opinion.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:41 PM
Few made first Elite 8 last year and will have many chances to go further. He is getting better. Stay together Zags

Few made the elite 8 bc we played UCLA (who wasn't even considered a Top 64 team by almost everyone )


Let's be honest, we had the easiest path to the Elite 8 in the history of the NCAA tournament. Let's call it what it was.


I know no one talks about it bc all of you are just happy to have made the Elite 8, and bc Duke won it all. But Last years team was the only chance for Few to ever make the Final Four.

But what happened? Coach K made adjustments late in the 2nd half.. And once again we choked, big time.. and lost the game. A game I felt we should of won. When Coach K slowed the game down, Mark Few didn't make a single adjustment.

There is absolutely no way to argue that Few is a terrible in game coach and that stuff makes up the DNA of your team, clearly.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:42 PM
I'm laughing thinking of Few trying to 'coach up' a win by explaining to our guards not to suck or to Wiltjer and Sabonis not to miss point blank layups inside the last minute or Sabonis missing the front end of a 1and1 down the stretch. Players have to make plays and holy crap did the team not make ANY plays down the stretch. Listen to the Bilas commentary for an unbiased opinion.

Unbelievable.

Wow. Haha.

Birddog
12-05-2015, 02:43 PM
R E L A X ! One game and it was not Few's fault. Perkins was way too sloppy and that wore off on the team for a crucial stretch. We stopped being aggressive and got nervous. The key is learn from the pressure defense and get better. We still have upside this year.

I disagree, there was much fault with Few; he didn't have the right personnel on the floor. The bolded part is the understatement of the day.

ZagsObserver
12-05-2015, 02:43 PM
Few made the elite 8 bc we played UCLA (who wasn't even considered a Top 64 team by almost everyone )


Let's be honest, we had the easiest path to the Elite 8 in the history of the NCAA tournament. Let's call it what it was.


I know no one talks about it bc all of you are just happy to have made the Elite 8, and bc Duke won it all. But Last years team was the only chance for Few to ever make the Final Four.

But what happened? Coach K made adjustments late in the 2nd half.. And once again we choked, big time.. and lost the game. A game I felt we should of won. When Coach K slowed the game down, Mark Few didn't make a single adjustment.

There is absolutely no way to argue that Few is a terrible in game coach and that stuff makes up the DNA of your team, clearly.

Hyperboles and poor logic are not a good combination

btzag
12-05-2015, 02:43 PM
Do you know what a troll is? Apparently not.

Question, do you even know what adjustment Sean Miller made that changed the game?

I doubt you do. Casual fans that are just happy to make the NCAA tourney every year killed the possibility of GU ever being a power house.

I can't even comprehend the fact that you seriously think there's no one, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, that could take this program to the next level. Naive and ignorant.

Id start by calling Brad Stevens. Better yet, id find the next Brad Stevens.

He told York to hit all his 3's and his team to shoot 70% in the second half! Oh and play super hard, way harder than the Zags!

Bing
12-05-2015, 02:44 PM
Few made the elite 8 bc we played UCLA (who wasn't even considered a Top 64 team by almost everyone )


Let's be honest, we had the easiest path to the Elite 8 in the history of the NCAA tournament. Let's call it what it was.


I know no one talks about it bc all of you are just happy to have made the Elite 8, and bc Duke won it all. But Last years team was the only chance for Few to ever make the Final Four.

But what happened? Coach K made adjustments late in the 2nd half.. And once again we choked, big time.. and lost the game. A game I felt we should of won. When Coach K slowed the game down, Mark Few didn't make a single adjustment.

There is absolutely no way to argue that Few is a terrible in game coach and that stuff makes up the DNA of your team, clearly.

Ha ha ha ha. Where have you been hiding?

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:44 PM
W

Ha ha ha ha ha

Thanks for giving me a belly laugh on this dismal day. Ha ha ha ha ha

Question.. Do you know who Brad Stevens was before he was Brad Stevens?


Better yet, I guess once Coach K, Izzo, Caliapri, and Self retire, there will be no good coaches in college basketball.

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? That's what you guys are basically saying.

There's GREAT coaches out there right now, just waiting for an opportunity.

jim77
12-05-2015, 02:46 PM
very fair assessment imo. AZ dared Josh, he wasn't ready today for that in the second half. we'll see how he responds or if he's already toast like some clearly think. toughness and confidence with the dribble can't be faked that's for sure, got some work to do to make himself believe he can, like he has shown that he can do at times. tougher with the dribble

Yup....Josh knows how to play PG but, his ball skills under pressure really hurt his game.......he needs to sharpen up his ball handling/scanning the court at the same time. I'm kinda shocked the staff has not caught onto this and dealt with it....it showed up in earlier games. Here's a drill...put up posters at 10 foot intervals on both sides of the court...then let josh go full steam ahead while the coach asks the number in the yellow poster....pretty soon he'll spend more time scanning the court and less time loking at the ball. Ball handling must be instinctive at this level....he'll get better.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 02:46 PM
He told York to hit all his 3's and his team to shoot 70% in the second half! Oh and play super hard, way harder than the Zags!

Thank you. You just proved that you, and most of the Mark Few supporters are casuals.


Shout out to Sean Miller though, that guy knows how to get the best out of his players in crunch time

bartruff1
12-05-2015, 02:46 PM
It has nothing to do with athleticism.

Melson, Perkins, and McClellan are plenty athletic.

Still gotta play basketball. Pangos and Bell lacked athleticism but were basketball players

In a nutshell

mattydog73
12-05-2015, 02:47 PM
Mark Few Can't make open shots and take care of the ball for the guards. In the end, you have to value your possessions and make shots, regardless of the half-time adjustments.

Just curious though, your front court is killing it and you have a 10 point lead at half-time what adjustments do you make? Do you change what you are doing because it is obviously working? Perhaps you tell your team, AZ is going to come after us and we must take care of the ball and score out of the flow of the offense.

From what I saw, ALL of the guards struggled with the pressure so it isn't like there was some "magic half time adjustment" sitting on the bench that could save them. And...again, from what I saw, GU missed all sorts of open shots and bunnies. I am sure some "better" coach would have "half time schemed" the TO's and missed shots right out the 2nd half so they did not happen.

Fact is, the Back court is going through a learning curve. Many are not fine with that. Ok. that is valid. Many of us are fine with that, also valid. What is not is this nonsense that Mark Few failed this team today. That didn't happen.

GrizZAG
12-05-2015, 02:50 PM
EMac hits the bunnies, Perks hits his threes (or Melson) we win walking away. Few has zip to do with the shots but I did think feeding the higher percentage shooters down low would have given us a better chance in 2nd half.

GUfan34
12-05-2015, 02:51 PM
What did someone suggest GU hire Brad Stevens?

The same Brad Stevens who coaches the most successful NBA team of all time?

The same Brad Stevens who could get a job at any school in D1?


Hahahahahahahahahaahhahshsshahah thisboard after a loss man

basketballzag
12-05-2015, 02:53 PM
EMac hits the bunnies, Perks hits his threes (or Melson) we win walking away. Few has zip to do with the shots but I did think feeding the higher percentage shooters down low would have given us a better chance in 2nd half.

Perkins 5 turnovers today = 11 points

zagfan94
12-05-2015, 02:53 PM
We need to recruit the next Stephen Curry.

basketballzag
12-05-2015, 02:55 PM
Perkins 5 turnovers today = 11 points
I'll also add that Perkins and other totally collapse mentally when they have three fouls. Done it every game and I don't know you fix that mental lapse except with a lot of time

GUfan34
12-05-2015, 02:55 PM
We need to recruit the next Stephen Curry.


Yeah!

Ezag
12-05-2015, 02:56 PM
Yeah!

Yeah +1

23dpg
12-05-2015, 02:59 PM
We need to recruit the next Stephen Curry.

Ridiculous, we need to recruit the next Chris Paul.
I get it, you're joking. You are joking, right?

Ezag
12-05-2015, 03:01 PM
Ridiculous, we need to recruit the next Chris Paul.
I get it, you're joking. You are joking, right?

Right now I think we'd settle for a Pangos with 1-leg haha

GUfan34
12-05-2015, 03:01 PM
Ridiculous, we need to recruit the next Chris Paul.
I get it, you're joking. You are joking, right?

No way bro. We need Brad Stevens and the next Curry and we're golden!

75Zag
12-05-2015, 03:03 PM
I think it could rationally be argued that GU has guards which would rate "top 50" and a front line which would rate "top 5". If you average and combine the two categories, I think you end up rating the GU team about "top 22", which is about where I expect GU to end up unless and until they make some major progress.

Go Bulldogs!

ZagMan in Philly
12-05-2015, 03:04 PM
We roll with our young guards.
They will get better.

maynard g krebs
12-05-2015, 03:05 PM
Couldn't get past page 1 reading this thread. Way too much ridiculous whining.

Without Mark Few Gonzaga basketball simply doesn't exist as we know it. I remember the days when GU got a commitment from Jerry Petty from Garfield and North Idaho college, and being excited about the possibility that he could be the next Quentin Hall.

There was a time when nobody could fathom the concept of the Zags getting to where they are today. From Lithuania to France to Poland to Germany and now Japan, the world's best young players want to be Zags, because they can see the skill development they're gonna get.

Some of you need to get a grip.

Robzagnut
12-05-2015, 03:06 PM
I call this game Kyle, Domas and the Zeroes.


Few apologists will come to his defense, but as i said in game thread, I cant continue to think its coincidence that when we play big games, one team makes good halftime adjustments, the other team (GU), doesnt. Cant remember 1 team in the past that was not prone to giving up big leads.


Few's major error was not putting in Edwards in the 2nd half. It was obvious Wiltjer and Sabonis had no legs and needed a breather.

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 03:06 PM
Thank you. You just proved that you, and most of the Mark Few supporters are casuals.

I'm just curious...considering you are bashing all these what you call "casual" fans...what exactly are you and what makes you so much better and more knowledgeable???

basketballzag
12-05-2015, 03:08 PM
I'm just curious...considering you are bashing all these what you call "casual" fans...what exactly are you and what makes you so much better and more knowledgeable???

He stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night because he doesn't know what he is talking about but he did find the right bed to sleep in (i.e. This forum).

GUfan34
12-05-2015, 03:09 PM
I'm just curious...considering you are bashing all these what you call "casual" fans...what exactly are you and what makes you so much better and more knowledgeable???


+1

HenneZag
12-05-2015, 03:10 PM
So bad. We had our chances but couldn't hit a shot to save our lives in the 2nd half. It was a slap in the face to be at the game and hear the AZ fan base student section chanting. Our guards need to step up and help out Wiltj and Sabonis. Another up by 14, and 10 and half and watch the 2nd half fizzle away. This has been a problem in every game this year and it needs to change or were in for a long season.

Vanzagger
12-05-2015, 03:10 PM
Couldn't get past page 1 reading this thread. Way too much ridiculous whining.

Without Mark Few Gonzaga basketball simply doesn't exist as we know it. I remember the days when GU got a commitment from Jerry Petty from Garfield and North Idaho college, and being excited about the possibility that he could be the next Quentin Hall.

There was a time when nobody could fathom the concept of the Zags getting to where they are today. From Lithuania to France to Poland to Germany and now Japan, the world's best young players want to be Zags, because they can see the skill development they're gonna get.

Some of you need to get a grip.
+1

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 03:12 PM
I'm just curious...considering you are bashing all these what you call "casual" fans...what exactly are you and what makes you so much better and more knowledgeable???

Considering I am not in denial about Mark Few is a good start ..

maynard g krebs
12-05-2015, 03:14 PM
Thank you. You just proved that you, and most of the Mark Few supporters are casuals.



Just the opposite, actually. So, please list the other coaches who have taken a mid major program that plays in a conference where seating capacity is in the 4-5000 range to status as a perennial top 20 program.

Then, maybe you could list for us the higher profile coaches who would jump at the chance to coach in the WCC.

Or you could just stop saying foolish stuff.

I'd go with door number 3 if I was you.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 03:21 PM
Just the opposite, actually. So, please list the other coaches who have taken a mid major program that plays in a conference where seating capacity is in the 4-5000 range to status as a perennial top 20 program.

Then, maybe you could list for us the higher profile coaches who would jump at the chance to coach in the WCC.

Or you could just stop saying foolish stuff.

I'd go with door number 3 if I was you.

Or what? What you going to do? Just continue to back Mark Few, knowing your wrong and tell me I'm stupid right?


Where did anyone say to go get a Power 5 coach? Even though I would bet anything a lot of coaches from the Power 5 would jump to come here.. There is prolly 25-50 great coaching candidates right now that are either coaching or assistants somewhere


Bottom line is, Mark Few is never winning a championship. He's never even going to make a Final Four.

16 seasons is Enough data, right? After all, you guys use that same exact data to validate him.


But, but, but we win the WCC and make the NCAA tourney. I KNOW. That's the PROBLEM. Mark Few feels no pressure to get to the next level bc of fans LIKE YOU.

You guys accept Mediocrity. Until that changes, Gonzaga will continue to lose these games.

Zagdawg
12-05-2015, 03:23 PM
Nominated.....moronic post of the year.

Fans are the reason we have not made a final 4.....lol.

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 03:27 PM
There is prolly 25-50 great coaching candidates right now that are either coaching or assistants somewhere

Bottom line is, Mark Few is never winning a championship. He's never even going to make a Final Four.
16 seasons is Enough data, right? After all, you guys use that same exact data to validate him.

please tell me exactly how many current active ncaa coaches have won a championship...and then please tell me which one is coming to gonzaga???

edited to add: funny thing is, i'm not even a die-hard mark few supporter...it's just that it seems you've gone so far off the deep end that somehow i've been compelled to reply...my bad.

maynard g krebs
12-05-2015, 03:27 PM
Or what? What you going to do? Just continue to back Mark Few, knowing your wrong and tell me I'm stupid right?



The quoted passage just drips with irony. Love it. See ya outside. LOL.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 03:27 PM
Nominated.....moronic post of the year.

Fans are the reason we have not made a final 4.....lol.

Really? You read what you want to read.

Fans that accept mediocrity is the reason MARK Few is still here and he's never making a Final Four. So yes ..


Gonzaga should take notes from UGA. They fired a great coach, Mark Richt bc they refused to accept mediocrity. After 15 years, it was clear he was never going to win a championship.

Gonzaga will never do that bc of fans like you.

cjm720
12-05-2015, 03:30 PM
Our court leader needs to step up, those late game turnovers were crushing.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 03:31 PM
please tell me exactly how many current active ncaa coaches have won a championship...and then please tell me which one is coming to gonzaga???

Can't even argue with you. Your going to stay out of touch with reality. Pretty sure no one expects Gonzaga to go hire a proven coach that's one a championship LOL

Again, pay attention to what UGA is doing. Did they hire a proven HC that has a championship?

I doubt you will though, you will make excuses and say that's a terrible comparison bc it's football, it's the SEC, it's not the same blah blah blah

In actuality, it's the exact same. Both programs are always preseason Top 25, and both programs continue to fall short in big games bc the coach struggles in these big games

cjm720
12-05-2015, 03:31 PM
Your definition of mediocrity is truly, truly sad.


Or what? What you going to do? Just continue to back Mark Few, knowing your wrong and tell me I'm stupid right?


Where did anyone say to go get a Power 5 coach? Even though I would bet anything a lot of coaches from the Power 5 would jump to come here.. There is prolly 25-50 great coaching candidates right now that are either coaching or assistants somewhere


Bottom line is, Mark Few is never winning a championship. He's never even going to make a Final Four.

16 seasons is Enough data, right? After all, you guys use that same exact data to validate him.


But, but, but we win the WCC and make the NCAA tourney. I KNOW. That's the PROBLEM. Mark Few feels no pressure to get to the next level bc of fans LIKE YOU.

You guys accept Mediocrity. Until that changes, Gonzaga will continue to lose these games.

Zagdawg
12-05-2015, 03:34 PM
Jim Meehan
‏@SRJimm
Perkins: "I'm just going to take that loss. I didn’t take care of the ball down the stretch and you have to make open shots. Learn from it."

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 03:35 PM
Really? You read what you want to read.

Fans that accept mediocrity is the reason MARK Few is still here and he's never making a Final Four. So yes ..


Gonzaga should take notes from UGA. They fired a great coach, Mark Richt bc they refused to accept mediocrity. After 15 years, it was clear he was never going to win a championship.

Gonzaga will never do that bc of fans like you.

let me get this straight...gonzaga is such a traditional powerhouse program that unless they make the final four the coach should be fired??? you realize sean miller has never made the final four either, right?

Vanzagger
12-05-2015, 03:36 PM
We are in good hands. I like our guys the most

Section 116
12-05-2015, 03:37 PM
ESPN's Eamonn Brennan: But the second-half turnovers and the inability for the backcourt to back up Wiltjer after the Wildcats decided to, you know, not just let the best scorer in the country score at will -- well, it will be hard for even the most rational of Zags fans to leave the Kennel on Saturday not at least somewhat disconcerted. If the guards don't come around, Gonzaga will struggle to play off Wiltjer in the way that made them so lethal as a group a season ago.

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 03:42 PM
Can't even argue with you. Your going to stay out of touch with reality. Pretty sure no one expects Gonzaga to go hire a proven coach that's one a championship LOL

Again, pay attention to what UGA is doing. Did they hire a proven HC that has a championship?

I doubt you will though, you will make excuses and say that's a terrible comparison bc it's football, it's the SEC, it's not the same blah blah blah

In actuality, it's the exact same. Both programs are always preseason Top 25, and both programs continue to fall short in big games bc the coach struggles in these big games

okay...so you're the one in touch with reality...yet you want the zags to do what georgia has done when there is absolutely no proof that it's going to work out for them...i guess you can predict the future too?

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 03:42 PM
let me get this straight...gonzaga is such a traditional powerhouse program that unless they make the final four the coach should be fired??? you realize sean miller has never made the final four either, right?

Your right.

LOL. This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't know about you, but ME AS A FAN, I want to see MY TEAMS, regardless what sport accomplish the ULTIMATE GOAL.

Your opinion, like many other GU fans is not that. You guys clearly do not push for that. If you did, GU would feel more pressure... Mark Few would feel more pressure.

zagsfanforlife
12-05-2015, 03:44 PM
Your right.

LOL. This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't know about you, but ME AS A FAN, I want to see MY TEAMS, regardless what sport accomplish the ULTIMATE GOAL.

Your opinion, like many other GU fans is not that. You guys clearly do not loath for that. If you did, GU would feel more pressure... Mark Few would feel more pressure.

I call them YMCA fans. "Everyone plays"; "WCC Championships, hooray". You can settle for very good, or you can expect greatness.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 03:46 PM
okay...so you're the one in touch with reality...yet you want the zags to do what georgia has done when there is absolutely no proof that it's going to work out for them...i guess you can predict the future too?

You are right about that, it may not. THAT IS NOT THE DAMN POINT.

Yes it could backfire, BUT ATLEAST THEY DIDNT SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY. Atleast they are willing to take a chance, do whatever it takes, to get to that next level. That's the point.

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 03:48 PM
I call them YMCA fans. "Everyone plays"; "WCC Championships, hooray". You can settle for very good, or you can expect greatness.

Awesome. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I am a fan of many sports teams (NFL, MLB, NCAAF, NBA) and GU is the only sports team I root for where coming up short year in and year out is acceptable.


Also, thank you for not being shy or scared to speak your opinion when it doesn't favor the majority on this board.

JohnOGU
12-05-2015, 03:54 PM
Absolutely correct.


Absolutely pathetic.


Sean Miller makes half time adjustments


Mark Few ####s pants.


I'm so fed up with this same story every year. Every single year


This team is once again absolutely terrible in crunch time? Ever wonder why? Bc Mark Few is. The DNA and make up of every Gonzaga team does this, and that's bc they take after the Head Coach.

How many more years do us passionate fans put up with this bc other GU fans are content with being a Top 25 team that never wins the big game in the regular season or the post season

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 03:55 PM
Your right.

LOL. This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't know about you, but ME AS A FAN, I want to see MY TEAMS, regardless what sport accomplish the ULTIMATE GOAL.

Your opinion, like many other GU fans is not that. You guys clearly do not push for that. If you did, GU would feel more pressure... Mark Few would feel more pressure.

...and how 'bout the second part of my statement...according to your theory, sean miller should be fired too???

maynard g krebs
12-05-2015, 03:57 PM
Georgia football and Gonzaga basketball are similar in one way. Each school's name starts with a G. So there's that. Otherwise, terrible analogy.

If using one's brain, one might come up with this: Tommy Lloyd is now the coach in waiting, if he stays until Few retires. He is probably the number one recruiter of international talent in the NCAA, and a major reason the Zags are where they are.

If Roth were a blithering idiot, which he obviously isn't, and fired Mark Few, Few's replacement is already on the staff. There would be no search, no other interviews. Lose LLoyd and the international pipeline is gone, or at least greatly diminished.

And the Zags go the way of every other mid major phenom, from UTEP to Niagara to Detroit to Jacksonville to, well, I could go on and on, but you get the point. Or not.

Zagdawg
12-05-2015, 03:57 PM
Ok Rex.....I understand you have been a Zag fan for about 8 months and a loss may be difficult for you to handle (Maynard --this is why he may not be familiar with Tommy being our next coach)---but we don't fire our coaches because we lose a game.

The boys have some great film to review--- maybe learn a thing or two and make a difference come tourney time.

Until then-- calm down a bit and enjoy the ride.

Go Zags!

zagsfanforlife
12-05-2015, 03:58 PM
Awesome. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I am a fan of many sports teams (NFL, MLB, NCAAF, NBA) and GU is the only sports team I root for where coming up short year in and year out is acceptable.


Also, thank you for not being shy or scared to speak your opinion when it doesn't favor the majority on this board.


Look, i am not saying GU needs to post a "Head Coach Wanted" job application on indeed.com this week. Few has took GU, a small school out of Spokane Washington to a level that pretty much
no one expected and he has sustained that level of "Very Good" for quite some time. After all, only one team at the end of the year is able to host that championship trophy. HOWEVER, it is mind boggling, and I am now seeing is definitely not a coincidence that every time GU now, who is at a very high level, plays another top team or storied program or storied coach, that coach 95% of the time out-coaches Few. It is equally mind boggling to me that any criticism of Few is like you are preaching your love to a terrorist group or something. Look, great job by Few getting us this far. But we are now at a point where we can either settle for WCC Championships every year, going crazy over Elite 8 appearances, or act like we are one of the top dogs in CBB, and EXPECT to beat the other top programs in the nation. Up 10 at home, middle of the second half----- IF you are one of the top teams in the nation, one of the top programs in the nation, and want to laud Few as one of the best coaches in the nation, I think criticism comes with that territory when you blow a lead like that and when Miller makes you look two tiers below him. Choose to approach it as you will-- enjoy the ride, enjoy the elite 8, sweet 16 finishes, but I am a "if we are good, we can get to being great" type of guy.

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 04:02 PM
You are right about that, it may not. THAT IS NOT THE DAMN POINT.

Yes it could backfire, BUT ATLEAST THEY DIDNT SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY. Atleast they are willing to take a chance, do whatever it takes, to get to that next level. That's the point.

you do realize that mark richt was fired because his teams were vastly more successful in his first ~7 years compared to the latter half of his tenure at georgia??? ...on the other hand, as far as i can tell, the gonzaga program is on an upward trajectory despite whatever inability mark few has to make second half adjustments...or am i out of touch with reality on that too???

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 04:05 PM
Georgia football and Gonzaga basketball are similar in one way. Each school's name starts with a G. So there's that. Otherwise, terrible analogy.

If using one's brain, one might come up with this: Tommy Lloyd is now the coach in waiting, if he stays until Few retires. He is probably the number one recruiter of international talent in the NCAA, and a major reason the Zags are where they are.

If Roth were a blithering idiot, which he obviously isn't, and fired Mark Few, Few's replacement is already on the staff. There would be no search, no other interviews. Lose LLoyd and the international pipeline is gone, or at least greatly diminished.

And the Zags go the way of every other mid major phenom, from UTEP to Niagara to Detroit to Jacksonville to, well, I could go on and on, but you get the point. Or not.

Lol ok..

maynard g krebs
12-05-2015, 04:09 PM
You are right about that, it may not. THAT IS NOT THE DAMN POINT.

Yes it could backfire, BUT ATLEAST THEY DIDNT SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY. Atleast they are willing to take a chance, do whatever it takes, to get to that next level. That's the point.

Here's an analogy for you. Say you had a very nice house, a comfortable upper middle class house, with a pool and a sauna and hot tub, a nice rec room, maybe a little outdoor basketball court.

You would like to have Bill Gates' mansion, so you burn down your house as a beginning measure, when existing data (the status of others in your social class, in this case mid majors) show that no one else in your circumstances has ever gotten such a mansion. So it's a long shot.

So, in your own life, would you burn down your house? It's a yes or no question.

maynard g krebs
12-05-2015, 04:10 PM
Lol ok..


What's funny?

uZiGiZaG
12-05-2015, 04:10 PM
you do realize that mark richt was fired because his teams were more successful in his first ~7 years compared to the latter half of his tenure at georgia??? ...on the other hand, as far as i can tell, the gonzaga program is on an upward trajectory despite whatever inability mark few has to make second half adjustments...or am i out of touch with reality on that too???

False. You don't want to argue this either, I've forgotten more about UGA football than you know.


Mark Richt got fired due to his inability to win the "BIG" games. Yes he hasn't won an SEC championship since 2005, but he's been close, and he's failed. Why? Bc Nick Saban has owned him. Urban Meyer, owned him.

His record against top 25 teams cost him his job. He is a Top 5 win % coach in all of college football, so trust me when I say it wasn't bc the later half of his career.

I could go on and on, but I'm not. It's clear that UGA had what it takes to atleast TRY to get its program to that next level, which is competing for a National Champiomship, every year.

Mark Few has too many supporters BC little ole Gonzaga is happy just being relevant and making the NCAA tournament.

bartruff1
12-05-2015, 04:15 PM
Some people really need to get a life. I thought Arizona won, because they deserved to. They had the better players and the better team and they played with determination and confidence...good for them.

I suspect they will only get better as the season goes on and it has a long way to go. I believe both the #1 and #2 teams in the country lost this week.

I also suspect that Gonzaga will get better....but I certainly never thought of them as a power house.

A good place to start would be to beat Montana.

Mark Few isn't going anywhere that he doesn't want to go. If you are unhappy with his results....well....maybe you should find a team and a coach that meets your expectations.

And I hesitate to add, don't let the door hit you In the a$$.

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 04:22 PM
False. You don't want to argue this either, I've forgotten more about UGA football than you know.

okay...i'm going to stop my discussion with you now as it's obvious you're so arrogant that this is a pointless exercise...i'm pretty sure you do know more about uga football than me, basketball on the other hand... but as you like to say, that's not the point. the fact that you write this way to someone who is a complete stranger to you tells me all i need to know...i could be the georgia a.d. for all you know, but you assume you're more knowledgeable so...

75Zag
12-05-2015, 04:22 PM
I could not agree more. And for those on other threads who dither about how GU could become more like Duke, as a first step I suggest installing spitoons in the undergraduate cafeteria. Nothing says North Carolina like tobacco.

Go Bulldogs!

Iceman
12-05-2015, 04:35 PM
Mark Few's biggest flaw is what it has always been -- every year he chooses to give big minutes to a player who is totally inept on offense and/or disappears against elite teams. Pierre Marie Altidor-Cespedes was barely a D 1 basketball player, and Few inexplicably gave him big minutes. Demetri Goodson (miracle shot aside) was horrific on offense, and Few gave him big minutes. Gary Bell could hit a jumper and free throws, but he did not acquire his nickname "InvisiBell" by accident. Bell consistently disappeared in the biggest of games. And Few gave him big minutes and would not adjust when Bell shrunk from the spot light. And now, Mark Few, AGAIN, chooses to give big minutes an non-contributing offensive player, Eric McClellan. E-Mac might be the worst offensive player I have seen wear the Zag uniform.

Year in and year out, Few and the other coaches do an excellent job acquiring talent, and it almost always is enough to win the WCC and make the Big Dance. But as long as Few illogically stays loyal to these duds on offense, we will never be an elite team. You just can't consistently beat the big teams playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

BTW, I should also add that all the guards, not just E-Mac, were awful today. But at least Perkins and Melson have room to grow. E-Mac will never develop into a player worthy of big minutes.

StandardZag
12-05-2015, 04:38 PM
Here's an analogy for you. Say you had a very nice house, a comfortable upper middle class house, with a pool and a sauna and hot tub, a nice rec room, maybe a little outdoor basketball court.

You would like to have Bill Gates' mansion, so you burn down your house as a beginning measure, when existing data (the status of others in your social class, in this case mid majors) show that no one else in your circumstances has ever gotten such a mansion. So it's a long shot.

So, in your own life, would you burn down your house? It's a yes or no question.

+1

Zagdawg
12-05-2015, 04:44 PM
Wow---they are coming out of the woodwork to post........ice you need to look for some input from Goose--because he has pretty solid perspective.

There may have been a reason the Bell was the WCC defensive player of the year---he did not earn that award sitting on the bench.

Goodson was one of our only options for a point guard and his speed/basket got us to a sweet 16.

You know that McClellan has better shooting stats that Melson.

So if we overlook the exaggerations and look at the facts....well sorry not much here.

soccerdud
12-05-2015, 04:44 PM
there are problems, real ones, with both coaching and the guards right now (and TOs and FTs in general). that's clear. it has cost us games already, and it appears likely that it will continue to do so. they deserve to be both critiqued and called out on this.

but the idea that GU would be better off by getting rid of Few (or playing 3 bigs), is laughable. our best hope of a final four or more is truly continued improvement of what we have, not demolishing the program and starting over.

i thought before the TAMU game, that this team had a legitimate chance to be better than last year's. i doubt that now. but next year's definitely does.

i want to see a GU national championship very, very much. there is no realistic chance that our odds of getting there will improve with few gone. none. and this idea that ZOMG WE MUST DO SOMETHING FIRE (or bench) EVERYONE is reactionary idiocy. and acting on such rarely (never) makes things better.

and, no, it doesn't make you a better or more knowledgeable fan that you'd rather burn the whole thing down than continue being a perennial top-25, one of the best teams on the west coast, consistent WCC champions, and yearly tourney participants.

WallaWallaZag
12-05-2015, 04:46 PM
Mark Few's biggest flaw is what it has always been -- every year he chooses to give big minutes to a player who is totally inept on offense and/or disappears against elite teams. Pierre Marie Altidor-Cespedes was barely a D 1 basketball player, and Few inexplicably gave him big minutes. Demetri Goodson (miracle shot aside) was horrific on offense, and Few gave him big minutes. Gary Bell could hit a jumper and free throws, but he did not acquire his nickname "InvisiBell" by accident. Bell consistently disappeared in the biggest of games. And Few gave him big minutes and would not adjust when Bell shrunk from the spot light. And now, Mark Few, AGAIN, chooses to give big minutes an non-contributing offensive player, Eric McClellan. E-Mac might be the worst offensive player I have seen wear the Zag uniform.

Year in and year out, Few and the other coaches do an excellent job acquiring talent, and it almost always is enough to win the WCC and make the Big Dance. But as long as Few illogically stays loyal to these duds on offense, we will never be an elite team. You just can't consistently beat the big teams playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

BTW, I should also add that all the guards, not just E-Mac, were awful today. But at least Perkins and Melson have room to grow. E-Mac will never develop into a player worthy of big minutes.

mark few certainly has flaws, but this critique in my mind isn't accurate because there have been plenty of teams to make a final four with players who were basically in for defense only.

as far as players "disappearing" in big games against elite competition, that's usually the result of not being an elite player...so if you want to knock few for not bringing in enough elite guys than that's okay by me. however, you can't knock him for playing these guys when he doesn't have better options on the bench...so, until melson clearly shows he can operate within the framework of the offense, i'm okay with few playing emac despite cringing every time he goes to the rim.

edited to add: just watched a replay of louisville vs. msu -- if few & co. could've picked up damion lee as a grad transfer i would put money on zags making final four...he's by far the best player for the cards.

spike_jr
12-05-2015, 05:22 PM
Lots of things from the game and the posts to think about.

We played well in the first half.... and then came half time.

AZ came out and turned up the pressure on the guards (this is the Miller adjusted and Few never did part). JP and KD picked up their 3rd fouls early in the half and I think SM may have already had 3. It made the guards play soft and tentative on D - compounded with a short bench. Miller made GU slow down with the pressure and Few did not find a way to speed the game back up. They were aggressive and we were not. They dictated a lot of what we did in the second half.

We were without Karno which would have definitely have helped on both ends of the floor. IMHO, the offense seems to "flow" better when he is in the game. But even more importantly, if he plays, KW and DS have more in the tank in the 2nd half. Both of those two were gassed down the stretch.

This game hurts as GU does not have the luxury of stumbling in the OOC. If we win the WCC, more people are going to remember that we lost to A&M and AZ at home (in their minds we beat inferior competition as we should but can't win against better teams). It is just the reality of GU and the WCC. I think the guards have great potential and will improve. Those 2 missed EMac layins were costly as well. We just all hope that the hard lessons learned in the early season do not put us too far behind the 8 ball come March Madness and Selection Sunday

The arguments for/against Few kind of make me laugh. Anybody that has watched GU over the years know that he is a very good game prep coach and pretty mediocre in game coach. He recruits good kids and has kept GU relevant. Anybody that thinks we are only where we are because of Few I think is being less than honest. Unless you have a parallel universe somewhere that you can plug in another coach to compare against Few, there really is no factual argument, only speculation and opinion. If people think we could never do better than Few, well I want some of what you all are drinking and/or smoking. But, I am certain we could do far worse.

Zagceo
12-05-2015, 05:27 PM
Fair assessment Spike and I bet Few would even agree with you on his in game coaching analysis.

scott257
12-05-2015, 05:47 PM
I remember a number of fans on this board that were really happy to see that Perkins and Melson had committed to GU. They were both hurt by circumstances outside of their control (and Fews) when Perkins was injured. Both of them have had games this year where they have shown the potential to be outstanding. We have had two losses against two very good teams, they don't in anyway indicate the team is not good. For those that want to blame Few, get a life. He put the best players he has on the court and they didn't make it happen. I am looking forward to seeing the team in February when they come down to play SMU. My guess is that many of you reactionary whiners will be singing a different tune by then.

jim77
12-05-2015, 05:51 PM
Theres not a lot wrong with this team...they have put big leads on good teams numerous times...so there is a sliver of hope.

I was probably 10 or 11 and playing PG when my coach told me I need to improve my ball handiling skills. I was quick but often times would leave the ball in bad places...I couldn't go fast and maintain GOOD control. I asked the coach how to improve my skills and he said: Practice. I told him I already go to practice twice a week...he said no...its something that has to be second nature and control shouldn't vary because of direction change or speed. You must always maintaion control and ALWAYS be in a position to pass. No ball handling scrums. Guess what his suggestion was? To take a basketball everywhere I went....so I'd dribble that sucker down the street and in the basement until it was just part of me..and it didn't take long...the ball was one of those old red white and blue rubber balls from the old ABA days....Pistol Pete was my Hero and I even had Pistol Pete tennis shoes. Those rubber balls bounced like crazy and are actually harder to learn to control...prolly helped me too. When the nubbers wear off and they get slick wet it really gets tough to control. Josh needs one of those old POS rubber balls that's half worn out..that should cure his ails. Once he gets it together he will really blossom...cause right now hes spending way to much energy and thought hanging onto the ball. He eats up teams who give him space...not so much when they get in his grill.

The Zags just need to win enough to get to the dance. Calls for the coaches head are ridiculous.

JohnOGU
12-05-2015, 07:34 PM
Nobody said anything about firing Mark Few. They merely pointed out the fact that we have a coach at the helm that is incapable of coaching with a lead against top team. Any lead that we have, no matter ho large, ever feels safe. It's a problem.

djdallaszag
12-05-2015, 08:07 PM
Theres not a lot wrong with this team...they have put big leads on good teams numerous times...so there is a sliver of hope.

I was probably 10 or 11 and playing PG when my coach told me I need to improve my ball handiling skills. I was quick but often times would leave the ball in bad places...I couldn't go fast and maintain GOOD control. I asked the coach how to improve my skills and he said: Practice. I told him I already go to practice twice a week...he said no...its something that has to be second nature and control shouldn't vary because of direction change or speed. You must always maintaion control and ALWAYS be in a position to pass. No ball handling scrums. Guess what his suggestion was? To take a basketball everywhere I went....so I'd dribble that sucker down the street and in the basement until it was just part of me..and it didn't take long...the ball was one of those old red white and blue rubber balls from the old ABA days....Pistol Pete was my Hero and I even had Pistol Pete tennis shoes. Those rubber balls bounced like crazy and are actually harder to learn to control...prolly helped me too. When the nubbers wear off and they get slick wet it really gets tough to control. Josh needs one of those old POS rubber balls that's half worn out..that should cure his ails. Once he gets it together he will really blossom...cause right now hes spending way to much energy and thought hanging onto the ball. He eats up teams who give him space...not so much when they get in his grill.

The Zags just need to win enough to get to the dance. Calls for the coaches head are ridiculous.

Like Richie Cunningham's lost brother...

jpn17
12-05-2015, 08:40 PM
The criticism of the guards in this game is warranted IMO. The criticism of Few I think is over the top. I was watching this game and at one point I asked one of my friends has a guard even scored? Sure enough right after Edwards made some free throws and they showed a graphic that Sabonis and Wiltjer had all the points but two. When your guards can't make shots what are you supposed to do? They had open shots that were missed. A large chunk of their turnovers were unforced. It's not like Mark Few has Tony Parker riding the bench. With McClellan and Dranginis you know what you're getting, but Melson, Alberts and Perkins are all very young and raw. They are going to get better, but there are going to be major growing pains with this group of guards. We saw evidence of that tonight against a very athletic Arizona team. I'm disappointed with the loss and I'm disappointed with the guard play, but this was a good game for these guys to experience. If you were expecting freshemen and sophomore guards to play with the composure of seniors, I don't know what to say. We're all fans and we all want to see Gonzaga win every game but it's just not gonna happen. No team wins every game, or at least it hasn't happened in a very long time. This one loss will not define Gonzaga's season.

MileHighZag
12-05-2015, 09:51 PM
Im with Uziz/zf4l and am tired of the "ymca" expectations. I feel that at least some of this loss has to be placed on Few. Time and time again we lose these very winnable games that we need to in order to make us an elite team. I feel Few is a good coach just not a great coach. I have Pat Bowlen-like expectations of winning the ship every year. I'll support whatever will get us there. Few won't get us there. Tommy Lloyd for pres!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

roxdoc
12-05-2015, 09:53 PM
Does Goodson have any eligibility left?

ZagsGoZags
12-05-2015, 11:12 PM
This thread is going too far in its criticisms of Few and our young guards.
Has the hype around the athleticism of Perkins, Melson, EricM gone too far, perhaps in their young heads also? Probably.
Are there better coaches in the country for getting their players to play with that hyper effort we see obtained by Sean Miller and Mike K. in the fourth quarter of close games? probably
The zag nation needs to pull together right now, not fly off the emotional edge with super focus on these weak areas.
There is no better medicine for young, eager, proud ball players than being humbled on a large stage. All the glory and hype on our young men so far is probably gone now, as I am sure they feel miserable, and are disappointed in their own performances under pressure.
EVERY GREAT PLAYER AND EVERY GREAT TEAM has suffered setbacks and dealt with what they have, strengths and weaknesses. This is what we are going through. we fans have stayed loyal when we had 6-8 losses per year. Few is a great coach for turning this lemon into learning and teaching applications. He pulls the young stallions into the team ethic, and sharing the ball.
Relax everyone. We have great potential, and the young guys are learning.
Alberts and Josh P are about 15 games played since they were in high school. Melson probobably 30. Its a cop out to take what KU, Duke, etc. have and bitterly criticize us compared to that. They have resources and recruiting advantages we could only dream of. We have clawed our way to near them.
Out of 331 teams, it is a miracle for us to consistently be in the top 40.
I am definitely in favor of being grateful, while we rise toward consistently being in the top 20. Our recruiting is at a new level. Few is used to good talent, but not stables full of 4 star and some 5 star recruits - will he be able to adjust to these guys some of whom may be one and done? It remains to be seen.
Calls for replacing Few would probably kill the goose that is laying golden eggs.
I am so happy to be a fan - these are the best years we have had under Few, or any coach. I don't think we have had a bad game, losing to a loser team (probably Portland Pilots in their gym three years ago was the last one) lately, in a long time, but we used to have quite a few of those.
The future is bright, we have recruits lined up coming in that we could have only dreamed of before 2008, and in some ways before 2012, and recruitment was always an area we were not competing with the elite ten teams before. Now we are closer.
Balance, perspective, loyalty to zag nation, more hunger, and more appreciation of what we have, that is what this thread needs more of, In My Humble Opinion.

gonzagafan62
12-05-2015, 11:17 PM
This thread is going too far in its criticisms of Few and our young guards.
Has the hype around the athleticism of Perkins, Melson, EricM gone too far, perhaps in their young heads also? Probably.
Are there better coaches in the country for getting their players to play with that hyper effort we see obtained by Sean Miller and Mike K. in the fourth quarter of close games? probably
The zag nation needs to pull together right now, not fly off the emotional edge with super focus on these weak areas.
There is no better medicine for young, eager, proud ball players than being humbled on a large stage. All the glory and hype on our young men so far is probably gone now, as I am sure they feel miserable, and are disappointed in their own performances under pressure.
EVERY GREAT PLAYER AND EVERY GREAT TEAM has suffered setbacks and dealt with what they have, strengths and weaknesses. This is what we are going through. we fans have stayed loyal when we had 6-8 losses per year. Few is a great coach for turning this lemon into learning and teaching applications. He pulls the young stallions into the team ethic, and sharing the ball.
Relax everyone. We have great potential, and the young guys are learning.
Alberts and Josh P are about 15 games played since they were in high school. Melson probobably 30. Its a cop out to take what KU, Duke, etc. have and bitterly criticize us compared to that. They have resources and recruiting advantages we could only dream of. We have clawed our way to near them.
Out of 331 teams, it is a miracle for us to consistently be in the top 40.
I am definitely in favor of being grateful, while we rise toward consistently being in the top 20. Our recruiting is at a new level. Few is used to good talent, but not stables full of 4 star and some 5 star recruits - will he be able to adjust to these guys some of whom may be one and done? It remains to be seen.
Calls for replacing Few would probably kill the goose that is laying golden eggs.
I am so happy to be a fan - these are the best years we have had under Few, or any coach. I don't think we have had a bad game, losing to a loser team (probably Portland Pilots in their gym three years ago was the last one) lately, in a long time, but we used to have quite a few of those.
The future is bright, we have recruits lined up coming in that we could have only dreamed of before 2008, and in some ways before 2012, and recruitment was always an area we were not competing with the elite ten teams before. Now we are closer.
Balance, perspective, loyalty to zag nation, more hunger, and more appreciation of what we have, that is what this thread needs more of, In My Humble Opinion.

A-freakin men

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-06-2015, 04:09 AM
This thread is going too far in its criticisms of Few and our young guards.
Has the hype around the athleticism of Perkins, Melson, EricM gone too far, perhaps in their young heads also? Probably.
Are there better coaches in the country for getting their players to play with that hyper effort we see obtained by Sean Miller and Mike K. in the fourth quarter of close games? probably
The zag nation needs to pull together right now, not fly off the emotional edge with super focus on these weak areas.
There is no better medicine for young, eager, proud ball players than being humbled on a large stage. All the glory and hype on our young men so far is probably gone now, as I am sure they feel miserable, and are disappointed in their own performances under pressure.
EVERY GREAT PLAYER AND EVERY GREAT TEAM has suffered setbacks and dealt with what they have, strengths and weaknesses. This is what we are going through. we fans have stayed loyal when we had 6-8 losses per year. Few is a great coach for turning this lemon into learning and teaching applications. He pulls the young stallions into the team ethic, and sharing the ball.
Relax everyone. We have great potential, and the young guys are learning.
Alberts and Josh P are about 15 games played since they were in high school. Melson probobably 30. Its a cop out to take what KU, Duke, etc. have and bitterly criticize us compared to that. They have resources and recruiting advantages we could only dream of. We have clawed our way to near them.
Out of 331 teams, it is a miracle for us to consistently be in the top 40.
I am definitely in favor of being grateful, while we rise toward consistently being in the top 20. Our recruiting is at a new level. Few is used to good talent, but not stables full of 4 star and some 5 star recruits - will he be able to adjust to these guys some of whom may be one and done? It remains to be seen.
Calls for replacing Few would probably kill the goose that is laying golden eggs.
I am so happy to be a fan - these are the best years we have had under Few, or any coach. I don't think we have had a bad game, losing to a loser team (probably Portland Pilots in their gym three years ago was the last one) lately, in a long time, but we used to have quite a few of those.
The future is bright, we have recruits lined up coming in that we could have only dreamed of before 2008, and in some ways before 2012, and recruitment was always an area we were not competing with the elite ten teams before. Now we are closer.
Balance, perspective, loyalty to zag nation, more hunger, and more appreciation of what we have, that is what this thread needs more of, In My Humble Opinion.

Yup.

jazzdelmar
12-06-2015, 04:15 AM
The Zags have three Broadway show stoppers, arguably the best scorer, the best rebounder and the best passing big man in the country; and all, give or take, are seven footers. After that, unfortunately, it's all Bridgeport. And the size of the gap is stunning.

bartruff1
12-06-2015, 05:14 AM
Given the current culture of players transferring to another colleges, for a variety of reasons, I expect there will be some gains and losses from this team.

jazzdelmar
12-06-2015, 05:17 AM
Given the current culture of players transferring to another colleges, for a variety of reasons, I expect there will be some gains and losses from this team.

Could not agree more, particularly in light of one or two of the posts yesterday. The outward bound queue may already be forming......

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-06-2015, 05:41 AM
Could not agree more, particularly in light of one or two of the posts yesterday. The outward bound queue may already be forming......

So many posts to read, so little time. Just back on the Board for first time since briefly after the game so probably won't be reading all these posts.

Jazz, perhaps I'm not picking up on your sarcasm but if a scholarship player really would choose to transfer because of posts on an internet message board, well, probably not the kind of mentally tough player Zags need frankly.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-06-2015, 05:49 AM
This thread is going too far in its criticisms of Few and our young guards.
Has the hype around the athleticism of Perkins, Melson, EricM gone too far, perhaps in their young heads also? Probably.
Are there better coaches in the country for getting their players to play with that hyper effort we see obtained by Sean Miller and Mike K. in the fourth quarter of close games? probably
The zag nation needs to pull together right now, not fly off the emotional edge with super focus on these weak areas.
There is no better medicine for young, eager, proud ball players than being humbled on a large stage. All the glory and hype on our young men so far is probably gone now, as I am sure they feel miserable, and are disappointed in their own performances under pressure.
EVERY GREAT PLAYER AND EVERY GREAT TEAM has suffered setbacks and dealt with what they have, strengths and weaknesses. This is what we are going through. we fans have stayed loyal when we had 6-8 losses per year. Few is a great coach for turning this lemon into learning and teaching applications. He pulls the young stallions into the team ethic, and sharing the ball.
Relax everyone. We have great potential, and the young guys are learning.
Alberts and Josh P are about 15 games played since they were in high school. Melson probobably 30. Its a cop out to take what KU, Duke, etc. have and bitterly criticize us compared to that. They have resources and recruiting advantages we could only dream of. We have clawed our way to near them.
Out of 331 teams, it is a miracle for us to consistently be in the top 40.
I am definitely in favor of being grateful, while we rise toward consistently being in the top 20. Our recruiting is at a new level. Few is used to good talent, but not stables full of 4 star and some 5 star recruits - will he be able to adjust to these guys some of whom may be one and done? It remains to be seen.
Calls for replacing Few would probably kill the goose that is laying golden eggs.
I am so happy to be a fan - these are the best years we have had under Few, or any coach. I don't think we have had a bad game, losing to a loser team (probably Portland Pilots in their gym three years ago was the last one) lately, in a long time, but we used to have quite a few of those.
The future is bright, we have recruits lined up coming in that we could have only dreamed of before 2008, and in some ways before 2012, and recruitment was always an area we were not competing with the elite ten teams before. Now we are closer.
Balance, perspective, loyalty to zag nation, more hunger, and more appreciation of what we have, that is what this thread needs more of, In My Humble Opinion.

Well said ZGZ...great post and perspective.

Zaga
12-06-2015, 07:11 AM
+1 ZGZ

GrizZAG
12-06-2015, 07:14 AM
Did anyone in their gut really think that this was going to be "The Year"? Of course we always have high hopes....but just sayin.

We lost so much talent and brought in the best we could to replace them. Now we are faced with patience to allow these guys to grow into huge shoes to fill. I have seen the frustration on Few's face and in his dialog with media. He too has higher expectations I believe.

The posters calling for Few's head or criticizing him so harshly are ridiculous. Of course any coach can be better and I doubt any are perfect, but this thing is what it is and I would guess those young guards are not happy with their performances themselves. Frankly I had the high hopes as well but also had an uneasy feeling going into this tough OCC schedule with the newbies. The hope remains however.

maynard g krebs
12-06-2015, 11:15 PM
This thread is going too far in its criticisms of Few and our young guards.
Has the hype around the athleticism of Perkins, Melson, EricM gone too far, perhaps in their young heads also? Probably.
Are there better coaches in the country for getting their players to play with that hyper effort we see obtained by Sean Miller and Mike K. in the fourth quarter of close games? probably
The zag nation needs to pull together right now, not fly off the emotional edge with super focus on these weak areas.
There is no better medicine for young, eager, proud ball players than being humbled on a large stage. All the glory and hype on our young men so far is probably gone now, as I am sure they feel miserable, and are disappointed in their own performances under pressure.
EVERY GREAT PLAYER AND EVERY GREAT TEAM has suffered setbacks and dealt with what they have, strengths and weaknesses. This is what we are going through. we fans have stayed loyal when we had 6-8 losses per year. Few is a great coach for turning this lemon into learning and teaching applications. He pulls the young stallions into the team ethic, and sharing the ball.
Relax everyone. We have great potential, and the young guys are learning.
Alberts and Josh P are about 15 games played since they were in high school. Melson probobably 30. Its a cop out to take what KU, Duke, etc. have and bitterly criticize us compared to that. They have resources and recruiting advantages we could only dream of. We have clawed our way to near them.
Out of 331 teams, it is a miracle for us to consistently be in the top 40.
I am definitely in favor of being grateful, while we rise toward consistently being in the top 20. Our recruiting is at a new level. Few is used to good talent, but not stables full of 4 star and some 5 star recruits - will he be able to adjust to these guys some of whom may be one and done? It remains to be seen.
Calls for replacing Few would probably kill the goose that is laying golden eggs.
I am so happy to be a fan - these are the best years we have had under Few, or any coach. I don't think we have had a bad game, losing to a loser team (probably Portland Pilots in their gym three years ago was the last one) lately, in a long time, but we used to have quite a few of those.
The future is bright, we have recruits lined up coming in that we could have only dreamed of before 2008, and in some ways before 2012, and recruitment was always an area we were not competing with the elite ten teams before. Now we are closer.
Balance, perspective, loyalty to zag nation, more hunger, and more appreciation of what we have, that is what this thread needs more of, In My Humble Opinion.

Thankyou.

TheGonzagaFactor
12-07-2015, 06:31 AM
Our guards will be fine against WCC guards but against the top 25 teams not that great or consistent.

You sure? Seems any time someone runs at one of our guards and starts waving their arms around, our guards melt down. They even struggled with Mt. St. Mary's press at times...

TheGonzagaFactor
12-07-2015, 06:34 AM
It was a weird game to watch. At no point did I feel Arizona was a better team, but they attacked in the second half and we looked like we have in most games this year after the first few minutes of the second. It's like they build a comfortable lead and that is their victory. The turning point for me was the two missed lay ups by EMac. That and part of me feels Karno could have gone but because one of Arizona's was out, Few played the friendly coach card to make it even.

Keeping Karno out was brilliant (he couldn't play anyway). Imagine how bad this loss would have looked with Tarc out and Karno in...

TheGonzagaFactor
12-07-2015, 06:41 AM
Our guards are athletic but mediocre at this point in the season. None of them will sniff any foreign professional team as of right now.
Losing Angel Nunez was a mistake as we could have really used him.
We need another to recruit another PG who has ball handling and court awareness skills as we currently lack that on this team at this juncture which is very disappointing

Good to see Wiltjer become the leader on the court today but he can't lead players into becoming more talented.

The team misses Pangos/Bell tremendously.

Karno playing wouldn't have made any difference today.

I would like to see Triano run the point in the next game for 10 mins.


LOLOLOLOLOL

zagfan24
12-07-2015, 06:45 AM
This thread is going too far in its criticisms of Few and our young guards.
Has the hype around the athleticism of Perkins, Melson, EricM gone too far, perhaps in their young heads also? Probably.
Are there better coaches in the country for getting their players to play with that hyper effort we see obtained by Sean Miller and Mike K. in the fourth quarter of close games? probably
The zag nation needs to pull together right now, not fly off the emotional edge with super focus on these weak areas.
There is no better medicine for young, eager, proud ball players than being humbled on a large stage. All the glory and hype on our young men so far is probably gone now, as I am sure they feel miserable, and are disappointed in their own performances under pressure.
EVERY GREAT PLAYER AND EVERY GREAT TEAM has suffered setbacks and dealt with what they have, strengths and weaknesses. This is what we are going through. we fans have stayed loyal when we had 6-8 losses per year. Few is a great coach for turning this lemon into learning and teaching applications. He pulls the young stallions into the team ethic, and sharing the ball.
Relax everyone. We have great potential, and the young guys are learning.
Alberts and Josh P are about 15 games played since they were in high school. Melson probobably 30. Its a cop out to take what KU, Duke, etc. have and bitterly criticize us compared to that. They have resources and recruiting advantages we could only dream of. We have clawed our way to near them.
Out of 331 teams, it is a miracle for us to consistently be in the top 40.
I am definitely in favor of being grateful, while we rise toward consistently being in the top 20. Our recruiting is at a new level. Few is used to good talent, but not stables full of 4 star and some 5 star recruits - will he be able to adjust to these guys some of whom may be one and done? It remains to be seen.
Calls for replacing Few would probably kill the goose that is laying golden eggs.
I am so happy to be a fan - these are the best years we have had under Few, or any coach. I don't think we have had a bad game, losing to a loser team (probably Portland Pilots in their gym three years ago was the last one) lately, in a long time, but we used to have quite a few of those.
The future is bright, we have recruits lined up coming in that we could have only dreamed of before 2008, and in some ways before 2012, and recruitment was always an area we were not competing with the elite ten teams before. Now we are closer.
Balance, perspective, loyalty to zag nation, more hunger, and more appreciation of what we have, that is what this thread needs more of, In My Humble Opinion.

Well said. I had a weekend full of family stuff, so just getting to reading through some threads post-game. It is full-blown delusional to believe that Gonzaga would become an elite national power by firing Mark Few. The Georgia comparison....oh man, can I tell you how many commentators have stated belief that Georgia firing Mark Richt would doom them to irrelevance for the next decade? There are no perfect coaches...firing a great one is a giant step in the wrong direction. And for all his flaws, there is no better leader of young men than Mark Few.

It was also delusional to ever believe this was a team that would only lose 1 or 2 games. There will be more this season. That's okay. A close loss to a ranked team really isn't anything to melt down over. Yes, we gave up lead. Flip the two halves...does it make the final result any better? We have a great front court, but even they have their flaws. Our guards are facing trial by fire and have a lot of growth ahead of them if GU is to content in the tournament this year. This team has limited depth this year and unfortunately an injury to Karno made it all the worse. I think it could be GU's greatest weakness aside from the turnover bug...tired legs at the end of games.

Anyway, enough ranting. Love Mark Few. Love the Zags. Think they'll be absolutely okay in the long run. TBIYTC.

vandalzag
12-07-2015, 07:08 AM
False. You don't want to argue this either, I've forgotten more about UGA football than you know.


Mark Richt got fired due to his inability to win the "BIG" games. Yes he hasn't won an SEC championship since 2005, but he's been close, and he's failed. Why? Bc Nick Saban has owned him. Urban Meyer, owned him.

His record against top 25 teams cost him his job. He is a Top 5 win % coach in all of college football, so trust me when I say it wasn't bc the later half of his career.

I could go on and on, but I'm not. It's clear that UGA had what it takes to atleast TRY to get its program to that next level, which is competing for a National Champiomship, every year.

Mark Few has too many supporters BC little ole Gonzaga is happy just being relevant and making the NCAA tournament.

This like the rest of your posts in this and many other posts are just Moronic. Feel free to jump off the bandwagon and we will see you in March after this team makes a run. And if they don't then you can focus on SEC football.

vandalzag
12-07-2015, 07:15 AM
Could not agree more, particularly in light of one or two of the posts yesterday. The outward bound queue may already be forming......

What a bunch of crap. How the hell do you post this kind of garbage. Who is leaving? If you are going to write something like this why don't you have the courage to actually post who you are talking about, I know you don't have any idea what you are talking about so why post it? Show some of the courage you say the team is lacking and back up this post with facts. Instead of starting baseless rumors why not post something that you can back up?

cjm720
12-07-2015, 07:48 AM
The Few bashing is typical. I saw a coach pissed because his team failed to execute. This one is more on the players....

At least it's not our last game of the season right!!?? More Zags hoops!!!!

cjm720
12-07-2015, 08:00 AM
Or the majority of the fan base understands perspective...where we have come from...I've said it many times that Gonzaga's little run is one of the best college stories in all of sports over the last few decades. Why derail a good thing.

And of all schools you want to compare Gonzaga's to? Georgia? Seriously? The team that derailed our most important player in Perkins?! A SEC powerhouse compared to WCC? Good grief.




Your right.

LOL. This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't know about you, but ME AS A FAN, I want to see MY TEAMS, regardless what sport accomplish the ULTIMATE GOAL.

Your opinion, like many other GU fans is not that. You guys clearly do not push for that. If you did, GU would feel more pressure... Mark Few would feel more pressure.

ProjectMKUltra5
12-07-2015, 09:23 AM
The Few bashing is typical. I saw a coach pissed because his team failed to execute. This one is more on the players....

At least it's not our last game of the season right!!?? More Zags hoops!!!!

It's amazing how fast our fans will blame our players, the kids who bust their ass for free, but not the guy making millions of dollars to coach them. Mark Few went out and signed a class that differs in many ways from past Zags, and proceeds to use them like any other guard he's ever had. These kids aren't being put in the best posistion to succeed and we won't see drastic improvement until they are.

Zagdawg
12-07-2015, 09:29 AM
The missed bunnies, layins, and free throws are all on Few. I expect him to make every shot he takes going forward. (Yes sarcasm alert). I am going to tell him to stop with the lazy passes also. ;)

If i had a "Free" college education, room, board and the perks of being a Zag player (i.e. doing what I love) I might have a different viewpoint.

I worked 2 jobs while going to college full time so that I could afford my tuition, rent and bills. Sorry I do not have the privileged mindset of some folks about college athletes.

Bogozags
12-07-2015, 09:35 AM
The Few bashing is typical. I saw a coach pissed because his team failed to execute. This one is more on the players....

At least it's not our last game of the season right!!?? More Zags hoops!!!!


Not sure why people want to "BASH" Coach Few...he didn't play in the game, he never made a bad pass or missed a shot or took a poor shot...

SIMPLY PUT, THE PLAYERS DID NOT EXECUTE! Who here knows Coach Few didn't make any adjustments to the game plan at half time or during the second half? Who? None of you know what was said in the locker room at half time nor after the game! From all the negative posts, one would think that Coach Few told all the back court players not to shoot...after all they were 3 for 14...maybe he told them to allow AZ's guards to penetrate the middle and score and get and 1's...

As I stated in another post on a different thread, defence was our down fall and turnovers and poor shooting by everyone not named DS or KW...

There are so many that have posted that GU has reached the Apocalypse and it's all over...those fans feeling like it's over, well there are other schools for whom to root...If the Zags are not doing it for you then I feel for you so you might want to root for UDub or WSU or Duke or UK...don't feel like you have to stay on this board...

Brother I feel your pain and frustration I really do but the way you vocalized it on here is just over the top!

There is nothing we can do to change ANYTHING regarding this TEAM...NOTHING...be patient and watch them grow into their "bodies!"

vandalzag
12-07-2015, 09:40 AM
It's amazing how fast our fans will blame our players, the kids who bust their ass for free, but not the guy making millions of dollars to coach them. Mark Few went out and signed a class that differs in many ways from past Zags, and proceeds to use them like any other guard he's ever had. These kids aren't being put in the best posistion to succeed and we won't see drastic improvement until they are.

How should he use them? I am pretty sure he told the guards in the past do not turn the ball over, make lazy passes, play good defense, run the offense, and look to shoot. What exactly is the coach doing with these guards that is different from other years? Was he a good coach in the first half when they were winning? And these kids are not playing for free, take it from a parent whose daughter is considering attending the school. Regardless of the pay to play argument, which I believe the kids should receive compensation, they are being paid. Run the cost of tuition and other expenses for 4-5 years plus throw in paid travel expenses and it works out pretty well for the players.

Zagceo
12-07-2015, 09:55 AM
The missed bunnies, layins, and free throws are all on Few. I expect him to make every shot he takes going forward. (Yes sarcasm alert). I am going to tell him to stop with the lazy passes also. ;)

If i had a "Free" college education, room, board and the perks of being a Zag player (i.e. doing what I love) I might have a different viewpoint.

I worked 2 jobs while going to college full time so that I could afford my tuition, rent and bills. Sorry I do not have the privileged mindset of some folks about college athletes.

Thats one opinion.........I prefer to cut kids some slack because .........they're kids.

These same kids played well in the first half..........what happened in half 2?

Maybe the grind of 177 min on the starters took its toll......maybe?

Who resposible for the bench having 8 scholarship players available?

KW worked his butt off trying to carry the team to the finish but playing 39 of 40 took its toll.

Not gonna blame KW or any players.

vandalzag
12-07-2015, 10:28 AM
Thats one opinion.........I prefer to cut kids some slack because .........they're kids.

These same kids played well in the first half..........what happened in half 2?

Maybe the grind of 177 min on the starters took its toll......maybe?

Who resposible for the bench having 8 scholarship players available?

KW worked his butt off trying to carry the team to the finish but playing 39 of 40 took its toll.

Not gonna blame KW or any players.

It goes both ways but why does there have to be blame? Goes both ways you can have the greatest game plan in the world, if the kids don't execute it is worthless. You can also have the greatest amount of talent and if the coach does not get them to buy in and put them in the correct position to succeed it goes sideways(Kentucky last year). The irony of blaming Few is many said last couple years he was over coaching and holding players back by not letting them make mistakes.
All if this seems like and odd way to get enjoyment for watching a bunch of kids play a game. Reminds me of being around parents during youth sports.

rennis
12-07-2015, 10:29 AM
has everyone recovered since the loss on Saturday? Can we lift the suicide watch? Or is there still a picket line on Mark Few's cul de sac asking for his head? Some of you people are astonishingly childish sometimes. You're so bad that someone at SSF had to write a hasty blog on how to tell a real Few Hater from a Closet Few Hater on this forum. This is what this has devolved into. Driven an observer to create bad content and bad journalism at the same time, which is truly sad. Good grief...

Whatever. Three things jump out at me on this game: First our depth and conditioning are allowing other teams to claw back into games in the 2nd half. Arizona is perennially one of the most physical and well conditioned teams (and talented) and I was not surprised in the slightest to see them wear us down, especially without Karno. They did it to us last year too, and that was with Bell and Pangos running the show, and those guys were machines. Second, as is the subject of the thread, the guard play just isn't there yet. I was hoping the cozy confines of K2 would allow the youngsters to make shots, but I hoped for too much. They are young and not as skilled as we have been accustomed to from GU's backcourt, and it shows against athletic teams. Third, not only are the guards struggling with some of the basics like ballhandling, I question their basketball IQ to a degree as well. I hate to say it because I respect the players and no doubt they're working their tails off every day trying to get better, but I see it nearly every game. Our offense is predictable, and defenses are consistently figuring out how to defend it as the game progresses. The guards aren't able to take it up a gear or make adjustments in the 2nd half. Everyone keeps saying Few didn't make adjustments, which is laughable. He made adjustments, but there were none executed.

Bummer we lost and I was hoping for a win - but it's not the end of the world. We're still a talented team with a solid record including wins over ranked opponents and no bad losses. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

CDC84
12-07-2015, 11:14 AM
TSSF suggested maybe moving Perkins over to off guard (allowing him to play off the ball) and allowing EMac to bring the ball up and assume more of the ball handling duties. Not as a permanent thing, but just to get Josh's confidence going. Any thoughts?

TexasZagFan
12-07-2015, 11:19 AM
TSSF suggested maybe moving Perkins over to off guard (allowing him to play off the ball) and allowing EMac to bring the ball up and assume more of the ball handling duties. Not as a permanent thing, but just to get Josh's confidence going. Any thoughts?

Who is the best ball handler on the team? I have no idea.

Josh needs to pay his tuition on the court. If Few thinks he's the man to take us to the Promised Land, then you live and die with him until he's proven that he is not the man. Practice is one thing, playing in real games against opponents who have scouted you, is another thing.

ProjectMKUltra5
12-07-2015, 11:20 AM
How should he use them? I am pretty sure he told the guards in the past do not turn the ball over, make lazy passes, play good defense, run the offense, and look to shoot. What exactly is the coach doing with these guards that is different from other years? Was he a good coach in the first half when they were winning? And these kids are not playing for free, take it from a parent whose daughter is considering attending the school. Regardless of the pay to play argument, which I believe the kids should receive compensation, they are being paid. Run the cost of tuition and other expenses for 4-5 years plus throw in paid travel expenses and it works out pretty well for the players.


It's what Few isn't doing different that's the problem. For all intents and purposes we're the same team as last year, running the same offenses, except we're doing it with a group of guards that have totally different skillset. These kids need more space to slash to the hoop, they need to be involved in more ball screens, a more basic free flowing offense. Not running motions intended to get good shooters with a quick release open. Quite simply I see guards that are playing with a leash on and not being allowed to do what they do best. That's the reason for how tentative they're playing imo.

ProjectMKUltra5
12-07-2015, 11:22 AM
The missed bunnies, layins, and free throws are all on Few. I expect him to make every shot he takes going forward. (Yes sarcasm alert). I am going to tell him to stop with the lazy passes also. ;)

If i had a "Free" college education, room, board and the perks of being a Zag player (i.e. doing what I love) I might have a different viewpoint.

I worked 2 jobs while going to college full time so that I could afford my tuition, rent and bills. Sorry I do not have the privileged mindset of some folks about college athletes.

That's quite the rosy view of what it's like to be a student-athlete.

Zagceo
12-07-2015, 11:37 AM
It goes both ways but why does there have to be blame? Goes both ways you can have the greatest game plan in the world, if the kids don't execute it is worthless. You can also have the greatest amount of talent and if the coach does not get them to buy in and put them in the correct position to succeed it goes sideways(Kentucky last year). The irony of blaming Few is many said last couple years he was over coaching and holding players back by not letting them make mistakes.
All if this seems like and odd way to get enjoyment for watching a bunch of kids play a game. Reminds me of being around parents during youth sports.


You asked the question what did Miller do better than Few?

I show chart ......talk about end game shooting .....and I'm asked for a resume in some smart as s response.

You wanna discuss Gonzaga Basketball....great.......I suggest facts or logic in a debate ........not asking for a resume. Kinda shows your weak hand.

cjm720
12-07-2015, 11:53 AM
It's amazing how fast our fans will blame our players, the kids who bust their ass for free, but not the guy making millions of dollars to coach them. Mark Few went out and signed a class that differs in many ways from past Zags, and proceeds to use them like any other guard he's ever had. These kids aren't being put in the best posistion to succeed and we won't see drastic improvement until they are.

A year of practice and play for all four of our guards. I think Few knows their strengths better than anyone. Plus, our bigs are our strength...the game plan all year will be to exploit it.

TexasZagFan
12-07-2015, 12:02 PM
You asked the question what did Miller do better than Few?

I show chart ......talk about end game shooting .....and I'm asked for a resume in some smart as s response.

You wanna discuss Gonzaga Basketball....great.......I suggest facts or logic in a debate ........not asking for a resume. Kinda shows your weak hand.

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall hearing Few on numerous occasions expressing his dislike for slowing the game down, taking the foot off the pedal, etc. Is the message not getting through to the players.

IMO, this can be a pivotal week. We either right the ship against a team we beat twice last year, or the questions will come harder and faster.

I'd like to see a greater sense of urgency, and greater emphasis on taking care of the ball. It's not all on the guards: Wiltjer and Sabonis need to kick the ball out when their shot isn't there.

BTW, I continue to work on aggressiveness with a potential point guard for the 2021-2024 Zags. lol
I got him to buy in to using the backboard on his wing shots, except he lost his head in a scrimmage last week, firing for the hoop with predictable results (air ball). He also picked up his dribble three times, when he should have taken it to the hoop. We'll see if last night's session carries over to today's game...my problems are minor compared to Few...lol.

Considering our pace of play, perhaps we should expect more turnovers, due to more possessions. OTOH, a large percentage of those TO's were preventable.

vandalzag
12-07-2015, 01:25 PM
You asked the question what did Miller do better than Few?

I show chart ......talk about end game shooting .....and I'm asked for a resume in some smart as s response.

You wanna discuss Gonzaga Basketball....great.......I suggest facts or logic in a debate ........not asking for a resume. Kinda shows your weak hand.

Happy to discuss. Just if you are going to state your opinion as fact and portray yourself as an expert have something other than a snappy internet handle.

Zagceo
12-07-2015, 01:55 PM
Happy to discuss. Just if you are going to state your opinion as fact and portray yourself as an expert have something other than a snappy internet handle.

I provided charts and shooting stats from the second half and this is your response …….I suggest a reading comprehension class.

I use my initials in my handle………. take that up with my dead parents….Mr Happy

CDC84
12-07-2015, 02:11 PM
Be kind people :)

Alum08
12-07-2015, 02:32 PM
The Few gameplan reminds me a lot of Mike Bellotti's. Anyone familiar with that era of Oregon football has to see the similarities. Whether that is his intention or the result of the players, I don't know. I think that after seeing 15 years of the same thing, it has to be a reflection of the coaching, personally.

When we got up by 14 we should've pulled most of the offensive juggernauts and given them time to rest. Let our second string manage the defensive end for a few possessions. If they get back within single digits, start flowing the offensive guys back into the game. Watch any good team in the NBA and they will do the exact same thing. There's no reason on earth that Bryan Alberts and Eric McClellan can't shut down the perimeter for a few plays on the defensive end after which we feed the post on offense. College teams can't react that quickly to personnel changes. You throw that lineup out there for a couple of possessions and the other team will almost always call a timeout to let the players know to sink down on D.

Keeping the same personnel out there AND letting the foot off the pedal simultaneously is always a disaster. You want your first 6 guys out there to be killers. The rest of the schollies can game manage. The Few strategy even neutered one of the most intense college basketball players of all time vs UCLA in '06. You can see the shift in their eyes with 10 minutes left.

Zagceo
12-07-2015, 02:33 PM
3….2….1……

Zagdawg
12-07-2015, 03:39 PM
I think even "Zagceo" saw the issue with your subs--since it was Kw and "Sabonis" that needed the rest. Would have need to go to Edwards and 4 smalls with a zone. The challenge with that was the 3 point shooting for Arizona had kicked in and they were hitting some threes.
I agree it would have been nice to get our big some more rest.

ZagaZags
12-07-2015, 11:39 PM
I read a post a few days ago and can't get it out of my head. I tried to go back and find it but couldn't. Good thing I saved it. I won't name the poster but I will say it's somebody very close to one of our GU players. After reading this post it made me wonder if coach Few has lost some confidence with some parents or even players. This was the shot across the bow.


Im with Uziz/zf4l and am tired of the "ymca" expectations. I feel that at least some of this loss has to be placed on Few. Time and time again we lose these very winnable games that we need to in order to make us an elite team. I feel Few is a good coach just not a great coach. I have Pat Bowlen-like expectations of winning the ship every year. I'll support whatever will get us there. Few won't get us there. Tommy Lloyd for pres!

vandalzag
12-08-2015, 06:50 AM
I read a post a few days ago and can't get it out of my head. I tried to go back and find it but couldn't. Good thing I saved it. I won't name the poster but I will say it's somebody very close to one of our GU players. After reading this post it made me wonder if coach Few has lost some confidence with some parents or even players. This was the shot across the bow.

Nice post way to back it up with facts. Based on this lets fire Few right now. Thank goodness Tommy Lloyd has turned down all of those top 20 job offers so he can step in and dominate college basketball, unless of course we give the job to Izzo or Coach K. It is just so easy at GU to win, I mean GU plays in the WCC which is the easiest league to play in (look at how successful St. Mary's and BYU are in this league...title after title). We all know that Few was the fourth choice for GU. Look at how Monson has piled up all the wins at his last two stops. Same with Grier, Ray G, and Rice have been locks for Final Four runs every year. It is just so easy to win at GU we should have 10 titles by now but Few has held us back.
So after the UConn win did Few lose confidence with players and parents? How about last year at the Elite 8 since all of the eligible players on this years roster were playing on last years team.
Just wondering why your friend of a cousin's neighbors mailman who knows the clerk at Safeway who sold a gallon of milk to somebody who drove by the street where one of the players lives rumor did not come out when they beat UW or UConn? 2 losses for a total of 7 points and we need to vote Few off the island. Excellent strategy.

bartruff1
12-08-2015, 07:10 AM
I read a post a few days ago and can't get it out of my head. I tried to go back and find it but couldn't. Good thing I saved it. I won't name the poster but I will say it's somebody very close to one of our GU players. After reading this post it made me wonder if coach Few has lost some confidence with some parents or even players. This was the shot across the bow.

It is not difficult to find out who made that post....I don't think it is a wise thing for players or their parents to take a shot across the bow of Few, it is his ship. If they are unhappy here, I hope they leave for a coach and a team that meets their expectations as soon as possible . A player with that attitude can ruin a team.

There are some very accomplished players that will be eligible next season so the competition for playing time will be fierce .

MileHighZag
12-08-2015, 07:34 AM
I read a post a few days ago and can't get it out of my head. I tried to go back and find it but couldn't. Good thing I saved it. I won't name the poster but I will say it's somebody very close to one of our GU players. After reading this post it made me wonder if coach Few has lost some confidence with some parents or even players. This was the shot across the bow.

I posted that. I'm sorry, but are you saying I'm close to a player? Or just replying to my post? I have never met a single player on the roster and that post is still in this thread.

bartruff1
12-08-2015, 07:50 AM
I posted that. I'm sorry, but are you saying I'm close to a player? Or just replying to my post? I have never met a single player on the roster and that post is still in this thread.

Thanks a bunch for killing that rumor....and I will add you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I would encourage you to post more often.

Birddog
12-08-2015, 08:02 AM
Thanks a bunch for killing that rumor....and I will add you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Agreed on the above. Painful losses bring out some equally painful posts.

MileHighZag
12-08-2015, 08:06 AM
Haha sorry to let you guys down. Like most of you, I'm just a fanatic with opinions but no inside info. I knew a few players during my time at GU, but who didn't?

bartruff1
12-08-2015, 08:22 AM
Haha sorry to let you guys down. Like most of you, I'm just a fanatic with opinions but no inside info. I knew a few players during my time at GU, but who didn't?

Heck, I thought you were Matt Bouldin....

rennis
12-08-2015, 09:31 AM
Seth's comments on our guards, sums up what we are feeling - backcourt isn't there yet:

" I wrote Arizona’s obituary in my Twitterbag column on Thursday, so naturally two days later they beat Gonzaga in Spokane. Me and my big mouth. The Zags did not have Przemek Karnowski (back spasms), but the Wildcats were also without their best big man, Kaleb Tarczewski (foot). This was a good win for Arizona, but it was also a bad loss for Gonzaga, which has yet to show that it has a high-caliber backcourt. The Zags’ rotation of four guards produced a whopping four field goals, and they did a horrendous job guarding Gabe York, who managed to hang 18 points on them despite having a limited offensive arsenal. And with the way the game is being called this season, how does a team shoot just eight free throws in a game of this magnitude?"

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/12/07/hoop-thoughts-parity-freshmen-transferring-nba-draft

MileHigh
12-08-2015, 03:12 PM
Haha sorry to let you guys down. Like most of you, I'm just a fanatic with opinions but no inside info. I knew a few players during my time at GU, but who didn't?

I think the poster confused MilehighZag with me (Milehigh)

jazzdelmar
12-08-2015, 03:31 PM
I think the poster confused MilehighZag with me (Milehigh)

Didn't you used to be Mile High Dad?

ZagaZags
12-09-2015, 03:37 AM
I posted that. I'm sorry, but are you saying I'm close to a player? Or just replying to my post? I have never met a single player on the roster and that post is still in this thread.

I guess I confused you with another poster. I was certain it was you that had inside information on one of our players.

Doctor updates.
NBA plans.
Medical Redshirt plans.
And the fact you deleted the post about Few.
Great knowledge for a casual fan.

Birddog
12-09-2015, 05:13 AM
Has GU ever had a group of guards with worse % converting at the rim? The last 2 or 3 games have been painful to watch with those missed runouts and breakaways.

vandalzag
12-09-2015, 06:38 AM
I guess I confused you with another poster. I was certain it was you that had inside information on one of our players.

Doctor updates.
NBA plans.
Medical Redshirt plans.
And the fact you deleted the post about Few.
Great knowledge for a casual fan.

I guess you should check your sources before posting rumors, rather than using the "if it is on the internet it must be true" standard.

GUfan34
12-09-2015, 07:24 AM
Other than stupid turnovers and over penetration, two things easily solved with experience and coaching, if the guards can't find their stroke from the 3 point line, this team will never be good.

It's really as simple as that. The game is all about guards, and so much about the 3 point shot. Right now, we've got no perimeter shooters. And that's not something you usually just "find." And our senior guards are probably the two worst offensive guards we have. Yikes.

U Zig, I Zag
12-09-2015, 07:59 AM
Has GU ever had a group of guards with worse % converting at the rim? The last 2 or 3 games have been painful to watch with those missed runouts and breakaways.

Seems like going back years we have had this problem. I still hold my breath thinking of GBJ breaking away and then clunking one and flying onto the floor. He did this about 3 dozen times over his career.

I can't really explain it. Especially EMac, it's almost if they only know 'one way' at getting at the rim and just go for it no matter what. The irony is we are popping the ball loose and jumping passes more so than we have in the past several years, but not getting much out of it.

bartruff1
12-09-2015, 08:32 AM
That was a very important win, because a loss might have been a tipping point for the team this early in the season.

They needed to win and they did and Montana played very good defense for the entire game.

Montana got the shot and the shooter they wanted at the end as I am sure the coaches will point out...... that shouldn't have happened.... and we were lucky the game didn't go into overtime as they would have had the momentum......

Beat the Bruins and I believe they will.

Ezag
12-09-2015, 09:03 AM
Shut up everybody! I believe everything I read on this forum! :1bestever:

strikenowhere
12-09-2015, 09:17 AM
Perkins - where is the awesome passing seen in the mix-tapes (I know, I know)? How, as a point guard, can he have a Assist-to-Turnover rate under 1? For a guy that was hyped to have the greatest court vision in last x number of years, how can it be so mediocre? Remember all that talk about him leaving early? Yeah that's not happening at this rate. At least he shows some offensive sparks, especially from distance.

Melson - Goodson 2.0. Can't hit the broadside of a barn. At least he plays good defense, but Norvell & NWG will be pushing him hard next year. If anyone were to transfer out next year, I'd put my money on him.

McClellan - Bonehead, hair-losing, WTF plays seems to be a specialty of his. Between questionable defensive choices at times (i.e. repeatedly lunging at the basketball and missing, allowing the opposing player to drive to the basket) and the inability to make bunnies (missed slams, easy layups, & bunnies in traffic) I just don't get it. At least there are other times when he does play good defense and can push a fast-break (finishing is a different story).

Alberts - Haven't seen much of him but from the limited sample has shown that he is competent enough to at least hang around the 3 pt line and take some shots. He needs more run.

Dranginis - A disappointment at times, but I get the feeling he's a glue-guy and is incapable of being anything more and that its unfair he is being asked to. He seems much more comfortable coming off the bench instead of being relied upon to win games with offense. Aside from the horrible missed assignment/foul that resulted in that five point play last night, he has been playing good defense too.

WallaWallaZag
12-09-2015, 09:24 AM
Seems like going back years we have had this problem. I still hold my breath thinking of GBJ breaking away and then clunking one and flying onto the floor. He did this about 3 dozen times over his career.

I can't really explain it. Especially EMac, it's almost if they only know 'one way' at getting at the rim and just go for it no matter what. The irony is we are popping the ball loose and jumping passes more so than we have in the past several years, but not getting much out of it.

wesley wasn't a great athlete but he was great at finishing around the rim...he wasn't much of a shooter either, but i think zags miss him almost as much as pangos/bell...this zags team really needs another scorer.

Ezag
12-09-2015, 09:58 AM
Perkins - where is the awesome passing seen in the mix-tapes (I know, I know)? How, as a point guard, can he have a Assist-to-Turnover rate under 1? For a guy that was hyped to have the greatest court vision in last x number of years, how can it be so mediocre? Remember all that talk about him leaving early? Yeah that's not happening at this rate. At least he shows some offensive sparks, especially from distance.

Melson - Goodson 2.0. Can't hit the broadside of a barn. At least he plays good defense, but Norvell & NWG will be pushing him hard next year. If anyone were to transfer out next year, I'd put my money on him.

McClellan - Bonehead, hair-losing, WTF plays seems to be a specialty of his. Between questionable defensive choices at times (i.e. repeatedly lunging at the basketball and missing, allowing the opposing player to drive to the basket) and the inability to make bunnies (missed slams, easy layups, & bunnies in traffic) I just don't get it. At least there are other times when he does play good defense and can push a fast-break (finishing is a different story).

Alberts - Haven't seen much of him but from the limited sample has shown that he is competent enough to at least hang around the 3 pt line and take some shots. He needs more run.

Dranginis - A disappointment at times, but I get the feeling he's a glue-guy and is incapable of being anything more and that its unfair he is being asked to. He seems much more comfortable coming off the bench instead of being relied upon to win games with offense. Aside from the horrible missed assignment/foul that resulted in that five point play last night, he has been playing good defense too.

Those awesome mix tapes were from Perkins in High School. Even Draginis scored 20+ points a game in H.S. Alberts seems timid and scared to shoot the 3. I used to hear that Melson was the most NBA ready player on the team....really? Seems way off the mark. I guess when you're going up against the 2nd team of Triano and Rem you like an NBA player!

Marcus
12-09-2015, 10:07 AM
Those awesome mix tapes were from Perkins in High School. Even Draginis scored 20+ points a game in H.S. Alberts seems timid and scared to shoot the 3. I used to hear that Melson was the most NBA ready player on the team....really! Seems way off the mark.

I remember that too but I think it was related more to having the most NBA ready athleticism and raw talent, the most NBA potential.

roxdoc
12-09-2015, 10:36 AM
Have been really pulling for him but have to say that Melson's D has been as bad as his O of late. Very poor in AZ game and when MT took its wide open 3-pt shot at the end last night, Melson was about 6 feet away on all 4's for some reason.

HenneZag
12-09-2015, 10:41 AM
Have been really pulling for him but have to say that Melson's D has been as bad as his O of late. Very poor in AZ game and when MT took its wide open 3-pt shot at the end last night, Melson was about 6 feet away on all 4's for some reason.

That's because instead of sticking on his guy like he was supposed to, he went for the steal. That play almost cost us the game or atleast OT, and I didn't feel very confident as we were playing tentative and Montana was starting to get hot from the outside.

vandalzag
12-09-2015, 01:01 PM
That's because instead of sticking on his guy like he was supposed to, he went for the steal. That play almost cost us the game or atleast OT, and I didn't feel very confident as we were playing tentative and Montana was starting to get hot from the outside.

Watch the replay and see the MT player give Melson a nice shove to send him flying. Kind of hard to go for the steal or guard your guy when you get pushed 3 feet out of the play.

whatazag
12-09-2015, 03:05 PM
What is this talent people keep speaking of regarding Melson? It keeps getting repeated that he is the most talented guard.

To me, talents = shooting, ball handling, passing, court vision, executing plays, rebounding, defense.

He is not particularly talented at any of those, besides perhaps defense, but even then not substantially better than any of the other guards. Which by the way even tho many of us have been critical of the guards, I am extremely impressed by their effort consistently on the defensive end.

That said, talk about him transferring is insane. I hope he stays at GU and continues to develop and has a great career here.

Ezag
12-09-2015, 03:30 PM
What is this talent people keep speaking of regarding Melson? It keeps getting repeated that he is the most talented guard.

To me, talents = shooting, ball handling, passing, court vision, executing plays, rebounding, defense.

He is not particularly talented at any of those, besides perhaps defense, but even then not substantially better than any of the other guards. Which by the way even tho many of us have been critical of the guards, I am extremely impressed by their effort consistently on the defensive end.

That said, talk about him transferring is insane. I hope he stays at GU and continues to develop and has a great career here.

I believe the came about from something Mark Few said at the beginning of last season

mtnZag
12-09-2015, 08:48 PM
Few apologists will come to his defense, but as i said in game thread, I cant continue to think its coincidence that when we play big games, one team makes good halftime adjustments, the other team (GU), doesnt. Cant remember 1 team in the past that was not prone to giving up big leads.

Humm...how about the basketball rule of, "if the shots aren't falling get tougher on defense".
And that is just what the Zags did, IMO.
Coach Few cannot be responsible for the shots not falling, now can he?

basketballzag
12-09-2015, 09:04 PM
Honestly after watching this team closely the last few weeks we shouldn't be ranked in the Top 25 right now. We have no business being ranked that high. I would say we are probably a top 40-50 program right now the way this team is playing. I don't have any answers for the guard play as it is just sloppy.

cjm720
12-09-2015, 09:35 PM
Honestly after watching this team closely the last few weeks we shouldn't be ranked in the Top 25 right now. We have no business being ranked that high. I would say we are probably a top 40-50 program right now the way this team is playing. I don't have any answers for the guard play as it is just sloppy.

You need to watch more hoops!

mattydog73
12-10-2015, 11:57 AM
I loved Kevin and Gary but I would take Josh and Silas over them every day of the week and yes, twice on Sunday. The athletic ability alone sets them apart but they are playing to their experience level currently. That is a good thing. Each game brings more experience, each experience brings them growth.

One other thing I want to address. Josh IS a phenomenal passer with excellent court vision. This is self-evident in the fast break and even more so the Secondary break, which GU quite frankly, stinks at. Also, this is still the 4-1 motion offense with the primary options being the front court. Not a lot of "no-look" pass opportunities in force feeding the post, outside of the dribble drive, pick and roll.

Facts is, Josh and Silas will grow to understand, above all else, they need to value possessions and look to make the right play not the flashy play. Once they learn this, coupled with their athletic skill set, they will be a serious force with which to reckon.

Reborn
12-10-2015, 12:04 PM
You need to watch more hoops!

If we lose to UCLA we won't be ranked in top 25.

strikenowhere
12-10-2015, 12:38 PM
I loved Kevin and Gary but I would take Josh and Silas over them every day of the week and yes, twice on Sunday. The athletic ability alone sets them apart but they are playing to their experience level currently. That is a good thing. Each game brings more experience, each experience brings them growth.

One other thing I want to address. Josh IS a phenomenal passer with excellent court vision. This is self-evident in the fast break and even more so the Secondary break, which GU quite frankly, stinks at. Also, this is still the 4-1 motion offense with the primary options being the front court. Not a lot of "no-look" pass opportunities in force feeding the post, outside of the dribble drive, pick and roll.

Facts is, Josh and Silas will grow to understand, above all else, they need to value possessions and look to make the right play not the flashy play. Once they learn this, coupled with their athletic skill set, they will be a serious force with which to reckon.

That is just nuts.

maynard g krebs
12-10-2015, 12:45 PM
I loved Kevin and Gary but I would take Josh and Silas over them every day of the week and yes, twice on Sunday. The athletic ability alone sets them apart but they are playing to their experience level currently. That is a good thing. Each game brings more experience, each experience brings them growth.

One other thing I want to address. Josh IS a phenomenal passer with excellent court vision. This is self-evident in the fast break and even more so the Secondary break, which GU quite frankly, stinks at. Also, this is still the 4-1 motion offense with the primary options being the front court. Not a lot of "no-look" pass opportunities in force feeding the post, outside of the dribble drive, pick and roll.

Facts is, Josh and Silas will grow to understand, above all else, they need to value possessions and look to make the right play not the flashy play. Once they learn this, coupled with their athletic skill set, they will be a serious force with which to reckon.

I really hope you are right, and agree about Perkins. I think he'll be among the top GU guards with a season or so under his belt.

But I've never seen anything more than athletic ability with Melson, going back to when I saw him play a couple of games in an AAU tournament at Bellevue College in hs. At the time, summer before his sr year, I posted something to the effect that I thought he wasn't at Bell's level at the same stage (I saw Bell a bunch of times in hs). The athleticism gives him "potential", but in his soph year he looks lost, especially his confidence.

I hope he gets it, especially the decision making part, but at this point he looks like a project, a case where GU gambled on a player with upside but needed a lot of improvement in the mental side of the game. Next year the starting backcourt will be JP and NWG, I'm pretty sure. Wouldn't be surprised if Norvell passes SM next year as well, though that's totally speculation.

bartruff1
12-10-2015, 12:49 PM
That is just nuts.

+1 :lmao:

Ezag
12-10-2015, 01:47 PM
+1 :lmao:

+2

bballbeachbum
12-10-2015, 01:56 PM
seen some nice things happen when Josh gets the ball weak side on the swing after the post double team, he can hit that shot and there's a little space there for whoever it is usually to penetrate if the help D runs him off the line; Emac or whoever has to run the offense from the point to create that opportunity; against some of the good defensive teams only one swing is not enough to imbalance the D tho.
on the pick and roll, we saw AZ double the dribbler and cause some problems but Josh also handled that defense well many times with the pass but I cannot recall him successfully splitting the D with the bounce to beat it or swinging it weakside...does anyone know? I'm sure he probably pulled it off but that D seemed to bug him a bit. A little preparation and adjustment and that experience could pay dividends

anyway, with so many shots for the bigs and by design from the O, maybe a little impatience from the guards is a by product sometimes? not saying it's ok just maybe that's part of it in some of the over penetrating or shot selection stuff; with less opportunities maybe comes a little of the forcing it stuff? idk, being young is part of it too of course for many of them. if someone said that already...I agree :)

the guards in general and Emac and Josh in particular played pretty well last game emotionally, fought the whole way and didn't lose their belief through the good, the bad and the ugly. Perhaps some expect belief to always be there but that's not been my experience. Have to prove it to yourself all the time. Josh doesn't make that shot if he didn't still believe at that point in the game, and that was super cool to see a freshman guard step up and take that step. does it carry over? we'll see, would be awesome to see

I really cannot stand UCLA

seacatfan
12-10-2015, 02:41 PM
I really cannot stand UCLA

Ditto. I was okay with them during the Harrick/Lavin years, but hated their teams under Howland and I think I'll just continue to do so even though he has moved on. I watched a few too many Pac 12 games where they were able to get away with pushing, grabbing, hacking etc. constantly on defense with no fouls being called. And the high hedge at the top of the key where the help defender bumped the ball handler EVERY SINGLE TIME, with no blocking call. See, I'm still mad about it all these years later.

Ezag
12-10-2015, 03:47 PM
Ditto. I was okay with them during the Harrick/Lavin years, but hated their teams under Howland and I think I'll just continue to do so even though he has moved on. I watched a few too many Pac 12 games where they were able to get away with pushing, grabbing, hacking etc. constantly on defense with no fouls being called. And the high hedge at the top of the key where the help defender bumped the ball handler EVERY SINGLE TIME, with no blocking call. See, I'm still mad about it all these years later.


I agree but I would still rather play Pac-12 type teams most every game just different refs -haha.

Zagceo
12-10-2015, 04:05 PM
Ditto. I was okay with them during the Harrick/Lavin years, but hated their teams under Howland and I think I'll just continue to do so even though he has moved on. I watched a few too many Pac 12 games where they were able to get away with pushing, grabbing, hacking etc. constantly on defense with no fouls being called. And the high hedge at the top of the key where the help defender bumped the ball handler EVERY SINGLE TIME, with no blocking call. See, I'm still mad about it all these years later.

You do know the GU/Howland (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/22/sports/sp-ucla22) connection right?

seacatfan
12-10-2015, 05:35 PM
You do know the GU/Howland (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/22/sports/sp-ucla22) connection right?

Don't care, still hate the way he coached basketball at Pitt and UCLA. Haven't seen his team at Mississippi St. yet, but I would guess same strategy still.

mattydog73
12-10-2015, 11:46 PM
If you have a contrary point of view that contains actual facts please do feel free to share. Your just nuts and +1 and or +2 is pathetic at best. Please feel free to start with the difference in the version of motion that KP and GBJ played under vs what few had Josh and Melson running....I am listening....of course I am assuming you even understand motion....go ahead a google it and reply if needed...

Here is a hint, few ran 4-1 hard screen for the last three years....but not ONCE this year....can't wait to hear your brilliant replies......

ZagaZags
12-11-2015, 12:10 AM
+2

+3 , that was absurd. Pangos, Bell and Wesley are sorely missed.

MDABE80
12-11-2015, 12:16 AM
Matty! lol.hard at it! I think Few knows his personel is a bit different out front. In the recent past years, Few's modified it quite a bit. WHen he figures out the players and their strengths, I'm sure we'll get back to a more Princeton type offense. It's a good one and we've had lots of success with it.

bartruff1
12-11-2015, 06:47 AM
If you have a contrary point of view that contains actual facts please do feel free to share. Your just nuts and +1 and or +2 is pathetic at best. Please feel free to start with the difference in the version of motion that KP and GBJ played under vs what few had Josh and Melson running....I am listening....of course I am assuming you even understand motion....go ahead a google it and reply if needed...

Here is a hint, few ran 4-1 hard screen for the last three years....but not ONCE this year....can't wait to hear your brilliant replies......

That is just nuts...

kitzbuel
12-11-2015, 07:03 AM
If you have a contrary point of view that contains actual facts please do feel free to share. Your just nuts and +1 and or +2 is pathetic at best. Please feel free to start with the difference in the version of motion that KP and GBJ played under vs what few had Josh and Melson running....I am listening....of course I am assuming you even understand motion....go ahead a google it and reply if needed...

Here is a hint, few ran 4-1 hard screen for the last three years....but not ONCE this year....can't wait to hear your brilliant replies......

I am quite certain that 4 years from now we will be looking back fondly at the Perkins/Melson years. There is just going to be some pain involved getting there.

vandalzag
12-11-2015, 07:07 AM
If you have a contrary point of view that contains actual facts please do feel free to share. Your just nuts and +1 and or +2 is pathetic at best. Please feel free to start with the difference in the version of motion that KP and GBJ played under vs what few had Josh and Melson running....I am listening....of course I am assuming you even understand motion....go ahead a google it and reply if needed...

Here is a hint, few ran 4-1 hard screen for the last three years....but not ONCE this year....can't wait to hear your brilliant replies......

Is +2 Nuts acceptable?

WallaWallaZag
12-11-2015, 07:28 AM
I loved Kevin and Gary but I would take Josh and Silas over them every day of the week and yes, twice on Sunday. The athletic ability alone sets them apart but they are playing to their experience level currently. That is a good thing. Each game brings more experience, each experience brings them growth. Facts is, Josh and Silas will grow to understand, above all else, they need to value possessions and look to make the right play not the flashy play. Once they learn this, coupled with their athletic skill set, they will be a serious force with which to reckon.

until this happens, everyone who is saying you're nuts is absolutely correct...until the potential turns into actual production, pangos and bell are head and shoulders above them...and even if/when perkins and melson develop, i doubt they will be the perimeter shooting threats the likes of bell and pangos. might not matter down the line with some of the talent coming in, but it's a huge problem with the current team since it's so dependent on post play...not nearly the amount of double-teams on sabonis and wiltjer if bell and pangos were still around to stretch the d.

LongIslandZagFan
12-11-2015, 07:39 AM
Is +2 Nuts acceptable?

I see what you did there

https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpuDlPJP9k5NHdC/giphy.gif