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ZagNative
12-04-2015, 08:52 PM
Looks like Zack's last season at Simeon tips off Saturday night with the nightcap game vs. Whitney Young in the Chicago Elite Classic:

http://www.chicagoeliteclassic.com/images/Slider_Images/CEC_web_banner_5.jpg

Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/ChiEliteClassic)

Chicago Elite Classic Website (http://www.chicagoeliteclassic.com/)

Simeon Career Academy website (http://simeonca.org/) - Warning: Not much there yet.

Chcago Trbune Preview (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-spt-1204-prep-bbk-chicago-elite-classic-20151203-story.html)

Players to watch (college commitments): Chase Adams, Marian Catholic; M.J. Cage, Mater Dei (Oregon); Tyler Cook, Chaminade (Iowa); Nojel Eastern, Evanston; Markelle Fultz, DeMatha (Washington); Alterique Gilbert, Miller Grove (UConn); D.J. Harvey, DeMatha; Charlie Moore, Morgan Park (Memphis); Christian Negron, Larkin; Zack Norvell, Simeon (Gonzaga); Mike Smith, Fenwick; T.J. Smith, Marian Catholic; Jayson Tatum, Chaminade (Duke); Lucas Williamson, Young.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5uVTLBRhjns/VmJyHMuxbLI/AAAAAAACnpI/2GNMijU88rM/s600-Ic42/2015-12-02%252520zach%252520norvell-1.jpg

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-05-2015, 07:39 AM
Thanks for posting ZN

With events like this for H.S. hoops it's no wonder these kids show up on campuses around the country ready to shine under the big lights as 18-19 year old freshmen.

Looking forward to keeping tabs on Mr. Norvell this year!

Rangerzag
12-05-2015, 08:22 AM
Looks like it might be streamed here:

http://thecube.com/cube/chicagoeliteclassic

ZagNative
12-05-2015, 08:51 AM
Thanks, Ranger! Very Cool.

The time for Zack's game is 8:30 Chicago time, which is 6:30 Spokane time.

hooter73
12-05-2015, 09:46 AM
Wow, nice group to be playing with. Make sure you show him some twitter love, let him know that GU is watching and rooting for him already!

ZagNative
12-05-2015, 10:15 AM
Zack's twitter: https://twitter.com/ZackN_22

Zagdawg
12-05-2015, 03:33 PM
Game starts in just under 3 hrs.

http://thecube.com/event/575226?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SM&utm_campaign=event

ZagNative
12-06-2015, 12:25 AM
From the Chicago Tribune game story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-spt-1206-prep-bbk-young-simeon-20151205-story.html):
Simeon's experience and Young's youth did not make for a stirring Elite Classic headliner.

The No. 1 Wolverines scored 12 of the game's first 14 points and led comfortably for most of their 56-51 victory over No. 11 Young late Saturday night at the UIC Pavilion.

But Simeon provided more questions than answers heading into its early season showdown with No. 2 Morgan Park on Thursday.

"We've just got to get better," Simeon coach Robert Smith said. "We played some really good stretches and we played some really sloppy stretches, but it's game one and at this point you just want to come out with wins, these first seven or eight games."

Simeon (1-0) had the luxury of throwing a bunch of good basketball bodies at Young, but seniors Zack Norvell and Josh Thomas and junior point guard Evan Gilyard accounted for 45 of the Wolverines 56 points.

With a greener light than most Simeon players have ever been given, the Gonzaga-bound Norvell scored a game-high 19 points.

"It is real green," Smith said. "It might be lime green. But it's his team and we've got to get him the ball as much as possible. He took one or two shots that were questionable, but it's going to be that kind of year."
Player of the game: Zack Norvell, Simeon, 19 points, 8 rebounds.

Key performers: Simeon — Josh Thomas, 14 points, 6 rebounds; Evan Gilyard, 12 points. Young — Xavier Castaneda, 16 points.

Highight video (http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/highlights-simeon-56-whitney-young-51)

Great video with a brief discussion of why he chose Gonzaga (http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/zach-norvell-embracing-high-expectations-simeon), "Zach Norvell embracing high expectations with Simeon."

hooter73
12-06-2015, 12:43 PM
I like him. A LOT!

Zagceo
12-06-2015, 12:56 PM
Graduate high school at semester and enroll GU and play second half of season with Zags.

High school football players do it for spring practice.

ZagNative
12-06-2015, 12:57 PM
I like him. A LOT!He's going to be a blast, isn't he?

jazzdelmar
12-06-2015, 01:04 PM
Oh no, more hype.

thespywhozaggedme
12-06-2015, 01:17 PM
Oh no, more hype.

So what? Hype or lack there of has no bearing on what a player does on the court. If you choose to overrate or underrate him is entirely up to you. It is up to the player to perform on the court.

jazzdelmar
12-06-2015, 01:18 PM
So what? Hype or lack there of has no bearing on what a player does on the court. If you choose to overrate or underrate him is entirely up to you. It is up to the player to perform on the court.

Gee, I don't think the world is that neat Spy.

Zagdawg
12-06-2015, 01:26 PM
Negative nelly is back in form........

How dare folks be happy that one of our recruits led his team to a victory.

Isn't it sunny in Cali Jazz..... Happy holidays.

ZagNative
12-06-2015, 01:26 PM
Dang. Hope Spy and Jazz don't turn this thread into another pissing contest....

Can we agree that it's okay to just be fans and be excited about the idea of this kid as a Zag through his last high school season?

jazzdelmar
12-06-2015, 01:31 PM
Guys, im KIDDING. Happy holidays to you too, Dawg. :)

Ps, it's 75 n sunny as sh**.

ZagaZags
12-06-2015, 01:53 PM
He's going to be a blast, isn't he?

+ 100, Super great kid. He's pretty good at basketball too.

ZagNative
12-06-2015, 06:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEJP3CEIshI

Zagdawg
12-07-2015, 05:52 PM
Zachary Norvell Retweeted
Varsity Views ‏@VarsityViewsCHI 3h3 hours ago
Sign into http://varsityviews.com & vote for Simeon's @ZackN_22 for Player of the Week! Winner announced Friday!

thespywhozaggedme
12-07-2015, 06:03 PM
Jazz is my internet friend, no need to start trouble when there isn't any. At the end of the day we all love our Zags.
Dang. Hope Spy and Jazz don't turn this thread into another pissing contest....

Can we agree that it's okay to just be fans and be excited about the idea of this kid as a Zag through his last high school season?

Zagceo
12-08-2015, 10:08 AM
Caught the 30 for 30 for the 3rd time last night. Benji (http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=benji) first aired in 2012 about Ben Wilson at Simeon.

Little more close to home now with Zach becoming a Zag.

jazzdelmar
12-08-2015, 10:19 AM
Jazz is my internet friend, no need to start trouble when there isn't any. At the end of the day we all love our Zags.

Back atcha Spymaster. :)

zagsfanforlife
12-08-2015, 10:36 AM
From the Chicago Tribune game story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-spt-1206-prep-bbk-young-simeon-20151205-story.html):

Highight video (http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/highlights-simeon-56-whitney-young-51)

Great video with a brief discussion of why he chose Gonzaga (http://www.csnchicago.com/video_content_type/zach-norvell-embracing-high-expectations-simeon), "Zach Norvell embracing high expectations with Simeon."

Not sure there is anything more pleasing to the eyes in the game of basketball then a left with handles like that, and a great shooter to boot. Looks so smooth. While our guards look like Crud this year, NWG, Norvell will definitely help prospects next year. I think by that time Silas and Perk will be ready to step up as well. Back to Zach tho, looks to be a good one. And my God, his team looks pretty legit.

Zagdawg
12-08-2015, 02:27 PM
Zachary Norvell Retweeted
Scott/Ballislife ‏@BallisLifeCHI 2h2 hours ago
Chicago High School Game of the Year (Round 1): #1 Morgan Park @ #2 Simeon Career Academy this Thursday 12/10 5pm! ��

Bogozags
12-08-2015, 02:29 PM
He's going to be a blast, isn't he?

ZN,

From listening to him, he is definitely a ZAG. He knows how to win in life and he will be successful and he will bring much success to GU too! I am excited about being able to watch him for a year or two maybe three...

ZagNative
12-10-2015, 02:26 PM
Watch Simeon play Morgan Park here at 3:00 PM. (http://thecube.com/event/578960?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SM&utm_campaign=event)

Simeon's 2015-16 Schedule (pdf) (http://simeonca.org/ourpages/auto/2015/12/6/44125829/varsity_basketball.pdf)

ZagNative
12-10-2015, 03:33 PM
Looks like an equipment malfunction is delaying the game...

Scott Phillips@phillipshoops

A stuck basket is delaying tip-off here at Simeon. Morgan Park has yet to take the floor.

ZagNative
12-10-2015, 03:40 PM
Game has been called until tomorrow at the same time. Hoop malfunction.

Zagceo
12-11-2015, 03:50 PM
Morgan Park 47 Simeon 39 Halftime

Zach has 8

Zagdawg
12-11-2015, 10:05 PM
Varsity Views Nation ‏@varsityviews 12h12 hours ago
Congrats to Simeon's (Chicago, IL) Zach Norvell on being named the VV Athlete of the Week!

ZagNative
12-12-2015, 03:27 PM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wA9WOlCi3Qw/VmoBtCjV7oI/AAAAAAACnys/aLbXNoOlv_Q/s512-Ic42/2015-12-10%252520%252520Zachary%252520Norvell%252520schedu le.jpg

23dpg
12-12-2015, 03:58 PM
Simeon lost yesterday. No idea how Zach did. The article listed the top scores for Simeon at 12 points apiece and he wasn't one of them.

rawkmandale
12-18-2015, 04:25 PM
Simeon and Zach Norvell are on CBBSN (channel 633 on Comcast) right now - playing Rainier Beach. The commentators were talking about Norvell and Gonzaga, and one was wondering why Mark Few is still at Gonzaga. The other one said because he has a god thing going.

Zagceo
12-18-2015, 04:30 PM
Simeon and Zach Norvell are on CBBSN (channel 633 on Comcast) right now - playing Rainier Beach. The commentators were talking about Norvell and Gonzaga, and one was wondering why Mark Few is still at Gonzaga. The other one said because he has a god thing going.

Thx.

221 CBSSN DirecTV

ProjectMKUltra5
12-18-2015, 04:48 PM
If you got the time I recommend checking out the Corona Del Sol and St. Anthony's game. 2017 PG Alex Barcello plays for Corona Del Sol and is a stud. He's a guy I really wanted GU to go after but the space in 17 is looking limited. He's a very GU-esque kind of player, high basketball iq, tough as nails, can shoot the rock, and he's a winner. He's a guy that we could very likely play against as Arizona is the favorite but who knows, maybe we pull him too. Either way I recommend watching him

Zagceo
12-18-2015, 04:52 PM
Zach has 15 @half

Simeon 39 Rainier 25

Cunliff has 15 for Beach

jazzdelmar
12-18-2015, 05:07 PM
Anthony's probably has 5 like him.



If you got the time I recommend checking out the Corona Del Sol and St. Anthony's game. 2017 PG Alex Barcello plays for Corona Del Sol and is a stud. He's a guy I really wanted GU to go after but the space in 17 is looking limited. He's a very GU-esque kind of player, high basketball iq, tough as nails, can shoot the rock, and he's a winner. He's a guy that we could very likely play against as Arizona is the favorite but who knows, maybe we pull him too. Either way I recommend watching him

Zagceo
12-18-2015, 05:37 PM
Novell 24

55 71 Simeon win

Cunlffe is going to ASU Hurley in stands game in PHX

jazzdelmar
12-18-2015, 05:46 PM
Novell 24

55 71 Simeon win

Cunlffe is going to ASU Hurley in stands game in PHX

Isn't it possible he's there to see his dad?

Zagceo
12-18-2015, 06:22 PM
Isn't it possible he's there to see his dad?

announcer mentioned Bobby was at the first game to watch Cunliffe ASU commit…..and yes he is still in the stands as his Dads team plays. St Anthonys enrollment 240

Mike Bibby coaches his kid on Shadow Mountain they played earlier.

jazzdelmar
12-18-2015, 06:43 PM
announcer mentioned Bobby was at the first game to watch Cunliffe ASU commit…..and yes he is still in the stands as his Dads team plays. St Anthonys enrollment 240

Mike Bibby coaches his kid on Shadow Mountain they played earlier.

St A is chopping up the best of Zona. City mouse beating desert mouse.

CdAZagFan
12-18-2015, 08:05 PM
...and one was wondering why Mark Few is still at Gonzaga. The other one said because he has a god thing going.

This could start an entirely new thread...

rawkmandale
12-19-2015, 02:04 AM
This could start an entirely new thread...

Freudian slip - naturally - but I kind of like it! Thank you for noticing.

jazzdelmar
12-19-2015, 05:57 AM
St A, even down a few D1 players, handled Corona easily. Best coached HS team in USA, every year. Barcello dropped 31 but needs work if he wants to step in as Zona's PG. Not a great handle, not terribly athletic and a bit slow footed (sound familiar?). Terrific shooter and shot maker, nice passer. St A had 3 or 4 better prospects IMO.

Zagdawg
12-30-2015, 07:28 PM
ILLBALLERZ ‏@ILLBALLERZ 4h4 hours ago
Pontiac Holiday- Zach Norvell 26 pts 10 rebs & Josh Thomas 20 pts 6 rebs led Simeon to 77-62 win over Bloomington @ZackN_22 @TheReal_Josh24

ZagNative
12-30-2015, 09:05 PM
From the Chicago Sun Times (http://suntimeshighschoolsports.com/2015/12/30/pontiac-zach-norvell-steps-dominates-bloomington/):

Pontiac: Zach Norvell steps up, dominates Bloomington

http://bullseye-prod.aggrego.org/wp-ag/wp-content/mercury/uploads/sites/68/2015/12/BBKOB-CST-123115_08_58358267.jpg?o=eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTk5LCJoZWlna HQiOjY2NCwieCI6MC41LCJ5IjowLjI1fQ%3D%3D&s=lqj6Pd1E5CgF8pxx6ajDkZzF3cY%3D

PONTIAC — Pretty much everything was going wrong for Simeon on Wednesday: tons of missed free-throws, tons of turnovers. Bloomington had the Wolverines on the ropes for three quarters, but a stellar effort from senior Zach Norvell keyed Simeon’s 77-62 win in the quarterfinals of the Pontiac Holiday Tournament.

Norvell finished with 26 points and 13 rebounds.

“That’s what he can do,” Simeon coach Robert Smith said. “He doesn’t have to put up numbers like that all the time, but we needed it today.”

Sophomore Talen Horton-Tucker made three three-pointers in a crucial stretch of the game. He finished with 11 points, it was his best performance on varsity.

“That was big,” Norvell said. “I know he’s pretty good, so it was nice for everyone else to see that.”

Josh Thomas added 20 points and six rebounds and Evan Gilyard scored 16. Simeon (7-1) turned the ball over 23 times and shot 12-for-28 from the free throw line.

“If I was the other team I would just put the bench in and foul,” Smith said. “Get us to the free throw line and then sub the starters back in and just win the game.

hooter73
12-30-2015, 10:55 PM
Kid understands how to win...

basketballzag
12-31-2015, 08:13 AM
From the Chicago Sun Times (http://suntimeshighschoolsports.com/2015/12/30/pontiac-zach-norvell-steps-dominates-bloomington/):

Norvell is as ridiculously underrated as Zach Collins was with the recruiting services. Norvell seems to have learned how his body works after adjusting from his 18 month growth spurt from 6'3 to 6'6. He was inconsistent his Jr. year a bit due to his body growth but now he is in tuned with his body on the court. He is going to be special as his passing and dribbling skills are very special. He appears to be a key addition who will allow open up the court with his outside shot threat both deep and mid-range. Collins is starting to look like a young Wiltjer but better developed body-wise.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWSXV5gGtKo

Zagdawg
01-01-2016, 10:10 AM
Gonzaga Guru Retweeted
Prep Circuit ‏@PrepCircuit 31 Dec 2015
Simeon (IL) G Zach Norvell (@ZackN_22) scores 24 PTS vs Curie @SimeonClub @rsmith2_robert @PHTonline http://www.prepcircuit.com/game/show/12638875?subseason=245525 …

Zagdawg
01-05-2016, 08:22 PM
Gonzaga Guru Retweeted
Michael O'Brien ‏@michaelsobrien 1h1 hour ago
Simeon beat Bogan 68-67 in OT. Zach Norvell 28 pts 8 rebs; Evan Gilyard 14pts 7 assists; Ben Coupet 13 pts 10 rebs

Zagdawg
01-08-2016, 11:28 AM
Zachary Norvell Retweeted
Prep Circuit ‏@PrepCircuit 16h16 hours ago
Simeon G Zach Norvell (@ZackN_22): 11 PTS, 10 REB, 10 AST, 4 STL in a win over Harlan @SimeonNation @michaelsobrien http://www.prepcircuit.com/game/show/12528342?

sittingon50
01-08-2016, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the updates, dawg.

ZagNative
01-08-2016, 05:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MktKKpJpayM

From the Commercial Appeal (http://www.commercialappeal.com/sports/preps/Penny-Hardaway-National-Hoopfest-lineup-set-364587201.html):




The ARS Rescue Rooter Networks Penny Hardaway National Hoopfest tips off Friday with three games at Lausanne before moving to Dyer County and Arlington on Saturday.

The event, now in its fifth season, matches some of the top teams in Shelby County against top squads from around the nation. Highlighting this year's event will be a Saturday game at Arlington between East--the top team in The Commercial Appeal's Dandy Dozen and the No. 1 AAA team in the state--against Bentonville (Ark.) and Kentucky commitment Malik Monk, one of the most exciting players in the class of 2016.

Other prominent national players taking part in the Hoopfest are Chicago Simeon guard Zach Norvell (who is signed with Gonzaga), Mississippi State signee Abdul Ado of Chattanooga Hamilton Heights and two standouts from Oldsmar Christian (Fla.), guard Eric Hester (Florida) and small forward Troy Baxter (South Florida).

Friday at Lausanne
5:30 p.m.: Southwind vs. Chattanooga Hamilton Heights
7 p.m.: Lausanne vs. Chicago Simeon
8:30 p.m.: Germantown vs. Oldsmar Christian (Fla.)

Saturday at Dyer County
noon: Dyer County girls vs. Arlington
1:30 p.m.: Obion County girls vs. Ridgeway
3 p.m.: Obion County vs. Little Rock Baptist Prep
4:30 p.m.: Martin Westview vs. Chicago Simeon
6 p.m.: Union City vs. White Station
7:30 p.m.: Dyer County vs. Carbondale (Ill.)

Saturday at Arlington
10:30 a.m.: Fayette-Ware vs. Nashville White's Creek
noon: Ridgeway vs. Nashville Christ Presbyterian Academy
1:30 p.m.: Cordova vs. Oak Ridge
3 p.m.: Houston vs. Chicago Whitney Young
4:30 p.m.: Bolton vs. Chattanooga Hamilton Heights
6 p.m.: Arlington vs. Oldsmar Christian (Fla.)
7:30 p.m.: East vs. Bentonville (Ark.)

ZagNative
01-08-2016, 07:34 PM
From twitter:
Prep Circuit ‏@PrepCircuit

HS Circuit: Lausanne Collegiate (TN) (46) at Simeon (IL) (55) - FINAL http://goo.gl/ClGh1K

cggonzaga
01-08-2016, 08:10 PM
When did Zach become the #5 player in the country?

ZagNative
01-08-2016, 08:37 PM
More twitter:

Prep Circuit ‏@PrepCircuit

Simeon (IL) G Zach Norvell (@ZackN_22): 22 PTS, 10 REB in a win over Lausanne @SimeonNation @HoopfestUSA http://www.prepcircuit.com/game/show/12728056?subseason=245525 …
1 retweet 0 likes

Zagger
01-09-2016, 05:44 AM
When did Zach become the #5 player in the country?

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-20-2015/ukugL0.gif

Zags_Fanatic
01-09-2016, 08:10 AM
When did Zach become the #5 player in the country?

Clarified in Youtube comments, looks like the site for the tourney mixed up Zach and Malik Monk's rankings.

BobZag
01-09-2016, 03:04 PM
Let's just declare he's #5 and stick with it.

cggonzaga
01-09-2016, 04:00 PM
Done deal BZ!

Zagdawg
01-09-2016, 07:44 PM
Zachary Norvell Retweeted
Michael O'Brien ‏@michaelsobrien 2h2 hours ago
Skipped Zach Norvell. He had 16 points and 10 rebounds in Simeon’s win today.

Zagdawg
01-19-2016, 12:35 PM
http://www.chicagonow.com/newsboy/2016/01/mlk-day-to-be-remembered-by-fenwick-faithful/

Zagdawg
01-19-2016, 01:58 PM
Anyone in Chitown area able to youtube and post for us West Coasters?


Zachary Norvell Retweeted
SportsStarsTV ‏@SportsStarsTV 1h1 hour ago
Fans in Chicago, we'll have a story with Simeon senior Zachary Norvell @ZackN_22 on Sunday at 9 a.m. on "The U Too" @wciu

Zagdawg
01-22-2016, 03:18 PM
http://thecube.com/highlight/340514?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SM&utm_campaign=clip

ZagNative
01-25-2016, 02:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umPQC4kX260

cggonzaga
01-25-2016, 07:49 PM
Anybody else watch Zack's highlights and feel like if everything goes right at GU he could be a 20ppg scorer? Not saying his freshman year or anything but the kid just knows how to score.

Coach Crazy
01-25-2016, 08:11 PM
Anybody else watch Zack's highlights and feel like if everything goes right at GU he could be a 20ppg scorer? Not saying his freshman year or anything but the kid just knows how to score.

We've never had players like Zach or Zack. So ready to see them play.

ProVeeZag
01-25-2016, 09:01 PM
We've never had players like Zach or Zack. So ready to see them play.

New cheer for Kennel Club: "Zach-Zack-Zag Attack!!"
New pre-game theme music: Anything from "ZZ Top"
New East Coast pronunciation: Gun-zack-a Bulldogs

zag67
01-26-2016, 08:23 AM
Crazy, what about Sabonis, Morrison, Olynick (maybe not in the beginning but ...), and others.
Yes, these could be something else (and I hope you are right), but through the years we have had others that are something else during their years at GU.

Coach Crazy
01-26-2016, 11:20 AM
Crazy, what about Sabonis, Morrison, Olynick (maybe not in the beginning but ...), and others.
Yes, these could be something else (and I hope you are right), but through the years we have had others that are something else during their years at GU.

In terms of coming into the program.

jazzdelmar
01-26-2016, 12:10 PM
In terms of coming into the program.

Wasn't Josh even higher rated than Zach?

Coach Crazy
01-26-2016, 01:40 PM
Wasn't Josh even higher rated than Zach?

Than Zack Norvell, yes...but I think Zack is underrated and has a broader skill set than Josh.

BULLDOG#1
01-26-2016, 02:55 PM
Than Zack Norvell, yes...but I think Zack is underrated and has a broader skill set than Josh.

From all the video I've seen on Norvell, I can't understand why you'd think he's got a broader skill set than Josh. He can shoot it, no doubt, but I haven't seen a lot in the videos I've seen.
Collins... well, that's about as complete of a big as I've seen coming into this program.

Z squared are going to do some damage!

basketballzag
01-26-2016, 04:29 PM
From all the video I've seen on Norvell, I can't understand why you'd think he's got a broader skill set than Josh. He can shoot it, no doubt, but I haven't seen a lot in the videos I've seen.
Collins... well, that's about as complete of a big as I've seen coming into this program.

Z squared are going to do some damage!

Throw out any Zach Norvell video you watched that is older than 3 months because his physical frame has bulked up and his height has increased 2 inches. It took some time for him to adjust to his new height (legitimate 6'6) and he put on some weight & muscle without even eating one omlet at Arnies (miss that GU institution). He worked really hard this off-season after struggling through his body changes and now you are seeing the results. Look at that last video that was posted and look at his body and footwork then go back and look at a video from 2014-early 2015--the difference is huge. Don't let the recruiting sites confuse you because they still have him listed as 6'4.

ny2lasports.com has Norvell ranked #50 in the US. Quite a bit of difference from 247 who hasn't seen Norvell play in person which is why they have him ranked as a 3* at 135. ny2lasports.com recruiting analysts are actually watching Norvell's games in person. Zach Collins is #29.

MDABE80
01-26-2016, 05:04 PM
Good news BB Zag,, I cannot imagine this level of talent. Nor can I fully see how amazing the talent will be next yearl We
've had some great kids join us in the past. None with the fanfare of these two though.
A long list of bigs, wings (where Zach must be considered now) . He might be that wing we've always needed. FF talent. I do hope we get there soon.

Coach Crazy
01-26-2016, 05:11 PM
From all the video I've seen on Norvell, I can't understand why you'd think he's got a broader skill set than Josh. He can shoot it, no doubt, but I haven't seen a lot in the videos I've seen.
Collins... well, that's about as complete of a big as I've seen coming into this program.

Z squared are going to do some damage!

Zack has the handles, the footwork, can dish the rock, and of course can shoot the lights out from just about anywhere on the court, as well as take on defensive contact both in driving to and finishing at the rim. As well, you have more options for finishing at the basket. It's not knocking Josh...I just think that Zack is under rated.

ZagNative
01-26-2016, 10:09 PM
From Twitter:


Simeon Booster Club Retweeted
Mac Irvin Fire ‏@TheMacIrvinFire

Zach Norvell (Simeon) 21pts 7 Rebs and the win over Bogan today. #MacIrvinFire

Worthington
01-26-2016, 11:34 PM
I think there's a good chance we see Zach in the starting lineup next year. If Perkins and Williams-Goss are the 1-2, Norvell's shooting ability is going to be coveted.

jazzdelmar
01-27-2016, 05:45 AM
Zack has the handles, the footwork, can dish the rock, and of course can shoot the lights out from just about anywhere on the court, as well as take on defensive contact both in driving to and finishing at the rim. As well, you have more options for finishing at the basket. It's not knocking Josh...I just think that Zack is under rated.

CC, given the influx of purported talent, do you see any exit visas imminent?

WallaWallaZag
01-27-2016, 05:50 AM
CC, given the influx of purported talent, do you see any exit visas imminent?

not really an influx if you look at the perimeter...norvell and nwg coming in to replace emac and drangs...that's it, so you could say status quo.

depending on what happens with sabonis and karno, might not really be an influx in the front court either...

jazzdelmar
01-27-2016, 05:57 AM
not really an influx if you look at the perimeter...norvell and nwg coming in to replace emac and drangs...that's it, so you could say status quo.

depending on what happens with sabonis and karno, might not really be an influx in the front court either...


won't melson, alberts and edwards be significantly impacted?

strikenowhere
01-27-2016, 06:06 AM
won't melson, alberts and edwards be significantly impacted?

It does certainly seem possible, but remember that right now the guards are playing 5 deep. With McClellan & Dranginis gone next year, you would have:

Perkins
NWG
Norvell
Melson
Alberts

and MAYBE JWIII and/or Tillie playing the 3 (that's just based on previous speculation). I don't think the playing time would be diminished much for these guys, but given Melson's struggles this year he certainly isn't going to be starting any time soon. Edwards seems the more likely to be impacted, especially depending on what Sabonis & Karnowski decide to do. If they both stay, Edwards won't have any playing time behind Sabonis/Karnowski/Williams/Collins/Larsen (who would probably redshirt).

jazzdelmar
01-27-2016, 06:10 AM
It does certainly seem possible, but remember that right now the guards are playing 5 deep. With McClellan & Dranginis gone next year, you would have:

Perkins
NWG
Norvell
Melson
Alberts

and MAYBE JWIII and/or Tillie playing the 3 (that's just based on previous speculation). I don't think the playing time would be diminished much for these guys, but given Melson's struggles this year he certainly isn't going to be starting any time soon. Edwards seems the more likely to be impacted, especially depending on what Sabonis & Karnowski decide to do. If they both stay, Edwards won't have any playing time behind Sabonis/Karnowski/Williams/Collins/Larsen (who would probably redshirt).

Given your scenario, it seems Melson and Alberts will be playing even less........and, yes, Edwards would, too.....then there's always the possibility a transfer or a 5th year player will emerge....so I would think after this season, it's a critical decision on the part of those three to stay or depart.

thespywhozaggedme
01-27-2016, 06:56 AM
if Norvell is a legit 6'6 then he could easily play sf.

strikenowhere
01-27-2016, 07:02 AM
if Norvell is a legit 6'6 then he could easily play sf.

Good point - I forgot that he's grown a couple of inches already.

Coach Crazy
01-27-2016, 07:03 AM
if Norvell is a legit 6'6 then he could easily play sf.

And BW was 6'5". The difference with Zack and previous 3 point shooters before him, is that he can absolutely create shots on his own. This program has been slowly progressing in how it stocks the wing position. And Zach will be a threat at some point to drive and/or dish.

If he can play defense at the D1 level you're gonna see him play anywhere from 700-900 minutes his freshman campaign.

Coach Crazy
01-27-2016, 07:08 AM
CC, given the influx of purported talent, do you see any exit visas imminent?

I think that there is an influx of talent that will require some of these kids to examine what their minutes played expectations will be, going forward...and how that fits in with what they have here.

It will be interesting to see how many solid transfers are available. Will also depend on how people finish the season. I anticipate NWG and JP getting the lion's share of the minutes at the 1 and 2 next season, though.

jazzdelmar
01-27-2016, 07:27 AM
I think that there is an influx of talent that will require some of these kids to examine what their minutes played expectations will be, going forward...and how that fits in with what they have here.

It will be interesting to see how many solid transfers are available. Will also depend on how people finish the season. I anticipate NWG and JP getting the lion's share of the minutes at the 1 and 2 next season, though.

It will be highly competitive, thats for sure....four amazing bigs for 2 spots, if DS/Karno return...and 3 solid starters a smalls.....again, not including transfers

Bogozags
01-27-2016, 07:44 AM
Lest ye forget...

Silas and Bryan both came in as acknowledged shooters...many read where Silas was a projected NBA prospect and to this point, he just has not felt comfortable in playing at this level on offence. His defence is great but he hasn't made that adjustment.

Bryan has shown his ability to shoot the three ball and his defence is improving game to game. Both he and Silas have shown the ability to take the ball to the hole but sense there might well be a leash that holds both back from looking for their own shot.

Zach, if he is actually 6'6", could well play both the 2 and 3 positions but his playing time will be determined by how quickly he adjusts to playing defence at the D1 level and how he is able to learn Coach Few's offence.


HYPOTHETICAL

KP and DS both come back then Edwards PT will really be effected. If only one returns then he will (IMO) will be in a normal rotation as the back-up post player. Edwards, as we have seen, has shown improvement of the last few games and I expect him to play even better as we get deeper into the season. He clearly has the skills...such soft hands are really hard to find...One more thought, Collins will also spend time at the 4 and 5 positions, which could also take away minutes from Edwards and even more so if both PK and DS return.

You also have to consider (if DS returns - which I believe he will) DS's development over this summer. He will be playing with his national team preparing for the Olympics so he might well have developed a better outside game, which will enable him to play the 4 with Collins and JWIII.

Nelson has not yet had a Red Shirt so if saw a better opportunity, then he could go and still have two years remaining but I think he stays...he has bought into this system and I believe will be in the backcourt rotation. Bryan has used his Red Shirt season, so he has three left after this season...if he chose to transfer, he would only have two years remaining, if he transfers to another D1 school. Edwards only has two yeas remaining and to transfer to another D1 school would leave him with only one year of eligibility.

I believe all three will remain and complete their careers at GU...IMO Melson or Alberts start next season along with JP, NWG, JWIII and either PK or DS.

jazzdelmar
01-27-2016, 07:55 AM
Lest ye forget...

Silas and Bryan both came in as acknowledged shooters...many read where Silas was a projected NBA prospect and to this point, he just has not felt comfortable in playing at this level on offence. His defence is great but he hasn't made that adjustment.

Bryan has shown his ability to shoot the three ball and his defence is improving game to game. Both he and Silas have shown the ability to take the ball to the hole but sense there might well be a leash that holds both back from looking for their own shot.

Zach, if he is actually 6'6", could well play both the 2 and 3 positions but his playing time will be determined by how quickly he adjusts to playing defence at the D1 level and how he is able to learn Coach Few's offence.


HYPOTHETICAL

KP and DS both come back then Edwards PT will really be effected. If only one returns then he will (IMO) will be in a normal rotation as the back-up post player. Edwards, as we have seen, has shown improvement of the last few games and I expect him to play even better as we get deeper into the season. He clearly has the skills...such soft hands are really hard to find...One more thought, Collins will also spend time at the 4 and 5 positions, which could also take away minutes from Edwards and even more so if both PK and DS return.

You also have to consider (if DS returns - which I believe he will) DS's development over this summer. He will be playing with his national team preparing for the Olympics so he might well have developed a better outside game, which will enable him to play the 4 with Collins and JWIII.

Nelson has not yet had a Red Shirt so if saw a better opportunity, then he could go and still have two years remaining but I think he stays...he has bought into this system and I believe will be in the backcourt rotation. Bryan has used his Red Shirt season, so he has three left after this season...if he chose to transfer, he would only have two years remaining, if he transfers to another D1 school. Edwards only has two yeas remaining and to transfer to another D1 school would leave him with only one year of eligibility.

I believe all three will remain and complete their careers at GU...IMO Melson or Alberts start next season along with JP, NWG, JWIII and either PK or DS.

U don't think the Burger Boy will start?

cggonzaga
01-27-2016, 08:13 AM
Good analysis Bogo. Agree with everything including your starting lineup. Unless of course the freshmen prove to be too good not to start. I hope Melson and Alberts don't go anywhere. It's not out of the question for the light to click for junior's (yes I know Alberts will only be a basketball sophomore). Plus it's good to have the depth regardless.

strikenowhere
01-27-2016, 08:21 AM
Is it out of the realm of possibility for Melson to redshirt? I feel that maybe he was unavoidably rushed into things his freshman year and missed out on a crucial developmental stage. Perhaps a redshirt year to work on his shot would be beneficial? If Olynyk could redshirt as a junior to work on his game, then why not Melson?

BULLDOG#1
01-27-2016, 09:16 AM
This is an interesting thread. To summarize what I've been reading:

- don't look at video of Norvell that's more than three months old because he's grown 2-3 inches (um, in three months?)
- despite what is shown on any tape of him, Norvell has superior handle, footwork, and dish-ability (has anyone on this board witnessed this?)
- Norvell has a more complete skill set than Perkins, our starting point guard (how did we draw that conclusion?)
- Norvell will probably start at the 3 because he's better than Melson and Alberts (so maybe Melson should redshirt???)

This hype rivals the Melson hype of two years ago. Have any posters actually witnessed any of this crazy Norvell development?

I am excited that we landed a blue-chip like Norvell, but I do think we need to keep things in perspective. It's hard for me to imaging that Norvell as a freshman is going to be taking minutes away from Melson's junior season, or even Albert's soph season.

The tapes of Collins, however, look as if he could be the best big man in the WCC as a freshman.

zagsfanforlife
01-27-2016, 09:20 AM
This is an interesting thread. To summarize what I've been reading:

- don't look at video of Norvell that's more than three months old because he's grown 2-3 inches (um, in three months?)
- despite what is shown on any tape of him, Norvell has superior handle, footwork, and dish-ability (has anyone on this board witnessed this?)
- Norvell has a more complete skill set than Perkins, our starting point guard (how did we draw that conclusion?)
- Norvell will probably start at the 3 because he's better than Melson and Alberts (so maybe Melson should redshirt???)

This hype rivals the Melson hype of two years ago. Have any posters actually witnessed any of this crazy Norvell development?

I am excited that we landed a blue-chip like Norvell, but I do think we need to keep things in perspective. It's hard for me to imaging that Norvell as a freshman is going to be taking minutes away from Melson's junior season, or even Albert's soph season.

The tapes of Collins, however, look as if he could be the best big man in the WCC as a freshman.


You act like Perkins is an All American, Melson is a sure fire All WCC player and somehow the smooth handles, stepbacks, and wide array of shots from all over the floor, against some of the better hs players in the country that i see from Norvell, are just a mirage on my computer screen. I dont think its a stretch to think he could be better than all of the guys you mentioned.

Coach Crazy
01-27-2016, 09:34 AM
Lest ye forget...

Silas and Bryan both came in as acknowledged shooters...many read where Silas was a projected NBA prospect and to this point, he just has not felt comfortable in playing at this level on offence. His defence is great but he hasn't made that adjustment.

Bryan has shown his ability to shoot the three ball and his defence is improving game to game. Both he and Silas have shown the ability to take the ball to the hole but sense there might well be a leash that holds both back from looking for their own shot.

Zach, if he is actually 6'6", could well play both the 2 and 3 positions but his playing time will be determined by how quickly he adjusts to playing defence at the D1 level and how he is able to learn Coach Few's offence.


HYPOTHETICAL

KP and DS both come back then Edwards PT will really be effected. If only one returns then he will (IMO) will be in a normal rotation as the back-up post player. Edwards, as we have seen, has shown improvement of the last few games and I expect him to play even better as we get deeper into the season. He clearly has the skills...such soft hands are really hard to find...One more thought, Collins will also spend time at the 4 and 5 positions, which could also take away minutes from Edwards and even more so if both PK and DS return.

You also have to consider (if DS returns - which I believe he will) DS's development over this summer. He will be playing with his national team preparing for the Olympics so he might well have developed a better outside game, which will enable him to play the 4 with Collins and JWIII.

Nelson has not yet had a Red Shirt so if saw a better opportunity, then he could go and still have two years remaining but I think he stays...he has bought into this system and I believe will be in the backcourt rotation. Bryan has used his Red Shirt season, so he has three left after this season...if he chose to transfer, he would only have two years remaining, if he transfers to another D1 school. Edwards only has two yeas remaining and to transfer to another D1 school would leave him with only one year of eligibility.

I believe all three will remain and complete their careers at GU...IMO Melson or Alberts start next season along with JP, NWG, JWIII and either PK or DS.

No. He wasn't. He was a 3-star prospect out of Oregon. Zack Norvell is an underrated 4* out of Simeon.

I would like to request that everyone stop using this example.

BULLDOG#1
01-27-2016, 09:37 AM
You act like Perkins is an All American, Melson is a sure fire All WCC player and somehow the smooth handles, stepbacks, and wide array of shots from all over the floor, against some of the better hs players in the country that i see from Norvell, are just a mirage on my computer screen. I dont think its a stretch to think he could be better than all of the guys you mentioned.

Not sure how you read my post as saying Perkins is an all-american or Melson is a sure fire all WCC...

I've seen the stepacks and wide array of shots -- Norvell can stroke it, no doubt. Haven't really witnessed the smooth handles, though, or the strong dish-ability, or this new superman frame.
My point is that Norvell would have to come in with an crazy amount of talent to take minutes away from someone who is in the third year in college hoops, third year in the gonzaga system and second full year of seeing meaningful minutes in that system. I've not seen that type of talent in the videos of Norvell, so I'm wondering if anyone who is posting some of this hype has actually witnessed what's being mentioned here.

I agree that Norvell looks good, but just maybe we should temper the hype just a bit.

Coach Crazy
01-27-2016, 09:44 AM
This is an interesting thread. To summarize what I've been reading:

I am excited that we landed a blue-chip like Norvell, but I do think we need to keep things in perspective. It's hard for me to imaging that Norvell as a freshman is going to be taking minutes away from Melson's junior season, or even Albert's soph season.



You don't think a freshman can shoot better than 32% from the field 24% from 3, and put up better than 5 ppg, a 95.1 ORtg, 1.0 BPM, or a .087 WS/40? Hmm, interesting.

Coach Crazy
01-27-2016, 09:47 AM
Not sure how you read my post as saying Perkins is an all-american or Melson is a sure fire all WCC...

I've seen the stepacks and wide array of shots -- Norvell can stroke it, no doubt. Haven't really witnessed the smooth handles, though, or the strong dish-ability, or this new superman frame.
My point is that Norvell would have to come in with an crazy amount of talent to take minutes away from someone who is in the third year in college hoops, third year in the gonzaga system and second full year of seeing meaningful minutes in that system. I've not seen that type of talent in the videos of Norvell, so I'm wondering if anyone who is posting some of this hype has actually witnessed what's being mentioned here.

I agree that Norvell looks good, but just maybe we should temper the hype just a bit.

I really feel like this statement calls into question your perspective. And if you haven't see what's been talked about in the Norvell footage, then I don't think you're going to find it, per my first point.

BULLDOG#1
01-27-2016, 10:02 AM
I really feel like this statement calls into question your perspective. And if you haven't see what's been talked about in the Norvell footage, then I don't think you're going to find it, per my first point.

Yes, it does. My perspective is that the videos I've seen from Norvell don't show a player that's worthy of the hype on this thread. Clearly other folks here see something in the videos that I don't. That's why I asked if anyone has actually seen the kid play.
I have not seen videos that make Norvell 6'6, or videos that show this great dish-ability, and none that really highlight a smooth handle.
If you read something different into the videos, then that's your perspective. No big deal, we just disagree. If you think you've seen enough evidence that Norvell as a freshman is talented enough to displace a valued junior at the same position, great. We just disagree.

Norvell looks good, and I'm excited he's a zag... but we've been down this hype road with so many players. Hope I'm wrong. Hype on...

jazzdelmar
01-27-2016, 10:16 AM
Norvell has a low bar to start over Melson and Alberts. He better be that good.

BULLDOG#1
01-27-2016, 10:28 AM
You don't think a freshman can shoot better than 32% from the field 24% from 3, and put up better than 5 ppg, a 95.1 ORtg, 1.0 BPM, or a .087 WS/40? Hmm, interesting.

You assume that Melson isn't going to improve and that Norvell is going to immediately adjust to the system. Plus, Melson is an above average defender.

DagsZags
01-27-2016, 12:27 PM
This is an interesting thread. To summarize what I've been reading:

- don't look at video of Norvell that's more than three months old because he's grown 2-3 inches (um, in three months?)
- despite what is shown on any tape of him, Norvell has superior handle, footwork, and dish-ability (has anyone on this board witnessed this?)
- Norvell has a more complete skill set than Perkins, our starting point guard (how did we draw that conclusion?)
- Norvell will probably start at the 3 because he's better than Melson and Alberts (so maybe Melson should redshirt???)

This hype rivals the Melson hype of two years ago. Have any posters actually witnessed any of this crazy Norvell development?

I am excited that we landed a blue-chip like Norvell, but I do think we need to keep things in perspective. It's hard for me to imaging that Norvell as a freshman is going to be taking minutes away from Melson's junior season, or even Albert's soph season.

The tapes of Collins, however, look as if he could be the best big man in the WCC as a freshman.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RN_EG35Pdo

Not sure if you've seen this video of Norvell yet, but it definitely shows him having excellent handles and court-vision. This is an older video even, from 4 months ago, and by all accounts Norvell has improved since being the go-to player for Simeon. Norvell has a great all-around game, and very well could be an instant contributor as a true Freshman.

maynard g krebs
01-27-2016, 12:27 PM
No. He wasn't. He was a 3-star prospect out of Oregon. Zack Norvell is an underrated 4* out of Simeon.

I would like to request that everyone stop using this example.

Not disagreeing w/ your point, and I am long on record as cautioning against high expectations for Melson. But it should be noted that he's from Portland Jefferson, owners of 8 Oregon state championships, mostly recent, and with over 20 D1 players this century, incl Kentucky (Terrance Jones), Kansas (Lee and Miles), Washington (Ross), USC (Brandon Brooks), Oregon (Lincoln), Oregon State (Wallace), Missouri (Thomas Gardner), and Cal (Sanders-Frison). Two lottery picks and a bunch of guys making money playing ball.

Maybe not quite Simeon, but not Klamath Falls HS either. So saying Oregon v Simeon seems a bit disingenuous; "Portland" v "Chicago" would be fair. I've seen several Jefferson teams in the past decade, and the ones I've seen, esp Ross/Jones, can play with anybody short of Findlay/Oak Hill types.

BULLDOG#1
01-27-2016, 12:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RN_EG35Pdo

Not sure if you've seen this video of Norvell yet, but it definitely shows him having excellent handles and court-vision. This is an older video even, from 4 months ago, and by all accounts Norvell has improved since being the go-to player for Simeon. Norvell has a great all-around game, and very well could be an instant contributor as a true Freshman.

Ok, yeah. Upon closer look at the video, I see your point. Perhaps I'm jaded by other recruits being so highly touted.

The Melson hype was too much... and now he's being discounted because he hasn't lived up to the hype. I do think Melson will be an important contributor next year. I also believe that there's real value in being in the zag system for a few years. As good as Norvell looks in this video -- against what I assume is top talent given that he's at Simeon -- he still hasn't played a bit of NCAA ball, whereas Melson will be coming back next year with great experience.

Any way you slice it, there's a wealth of talent on next year's team and this recruiting class is phenomenal. As great as Collins and Norvell look, it could easily be one of the others in the class who really shine.

Mr Vulture
01-27-2016, 01:31 PM
Not to be a downer, and I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Melson as a contributor next year at all. He has played some good defense but he has no confidence in his shot while being prone to mistakes as well. I think that the best thing Melson could do is RS next year as I don't see the minutes for him barring injury. Also, I think that Norvell is a clear player that will most likely start at the wing next year unless JWIII has the skillset to cover that spot. I fully expect Sabonis back and I think Karno is a likely returnee as well. I do not think Collins starts unless both Domas and Karno are gone or there is an injury.


Ok, yeah. Upon closer look at the video, I see your point. Perhaps I'm jaded by other recruits being so highly touted.

The Melson hype was too much... and now he's being discounted because he hasn't lived up to the hype. I do think Melson will be an important contributor next year. I also believe that there's real value in being in the zag system for a few years. As good as Norvell looks in this video -- against what I assume is top talent given that he's at Simeon -- he still hasn't played a bit of NCAA ball, whereas Melson will be coming back next year with great experience.

Any way you slice it, there's a wealth of talent on next year's team and this recruiting class is phenomenal. As great as Collins and Norvell look, it could easily be one of the others in the class who really shine.

Bogozags
01-27-2016, 03:22 PM
U don't think the Burger Boy will start?

Jazz,

Not so sure the word "starting" is as relevant as it once was so...

I think the only way Zach Collins "starts" at the 5 is if neither PK or DS return next season. If either does return, then he won't "start" at either the 4 or 5...IMO JWIII will start at the 4 if only PK or DS returns.

If neither returns, then I would think he would get starter minutes over Edwards with JWIII starting at the 4...our bench will be much shorter w/o PK or DS...

I am thinking that one does return and then we will have four players for our front court...if both come back, then there will be a big crowd on the bench...I think we could have "scramble-eggs" situation as did Al McGuire back in 77 when he won the NC...

Personally, I'd like to see both return and let them start together with Collins and JWIII coming off the bench...it would drive the opposing team's defence nuts...IMO

Bogozags
01-27-2016, 03:31 PM
No. He wasn't. He was a 3-star prospect out of Oregon. Zack Norvell is an underrated 4* out of Simeon.

I would like to request that everyone stop using this example.

Coach,

I never said he was projected prospect, I said "many read where he was an NBA prospect." In fact, I read that on this board...I never thought that he was or wasn't but that some thought he had the skill set...

He was a 3star but the difference between and 3, 4 and 5 star in minuscule today...as Coach Few just stated that highly regarded recruits are just that highly regarded but that doesn't mean they will be great college players...

Melson and Norvell are TWO DIFFERENT PLAYERS and Melson will have two years of experience behind him next season...how well Norvell can adjust to D1 is the question...so far Melson has not yet made that jump completely...

nish_mode
01-27-2016, 04:16 PM
You do have to give Melson credit. He seems to realize his offense is struggling and has adjusted his shot selection accordingly. In the games i've watched during January, he played significant minutes but didn't jack up shots like he did his freshman year. A lot of games he's only taking 2-3 wide open shots. He rebounds well for a guard, plays solid defense and doesn't turn the ball over (probably because he doesn't have the ball in his hands that much). There's no way his offense can be this bad next year, things can only get better.

If Norvell adapts quickly, the rotation with NWG, Melson and Perkins could be fun to watch at the 1 and 2.

DixieZag
01-27-2016, 04:24 PM
You do have to give Melson credit. He seems to realize his offense is struggling and has adjusted his shot selection accordingly. In the games i've watched during January, he played significant minutes but didn't jack up shots like he did his freshman year. A lot of games he's only taking 2-3 wide open shots. He rebounds well for a guard, plays solid defense and doesn't turn the ball over (probably because he doesn't have the ball in his hands that much). There's no way his offense can be this bad next year, things can only get better.

If Norvell adapts quickly, the rotation with NWG, Melson and Perkins could be fun to watch at the 1 and 2.

True.

But, he is reaching Meech numbers with respect to 3 pt shooting.

Perhaps if he just focused on getting to the rim when it presents itself, perhaps he gets a little bit of confidence.

CdAZagFan
01-27-2016, 04:35 PM
Perhaps if he just focused on getting to the rim when it presents itself, perhaps he gets a little bit of confidence.

Agree with you Dixie... he had a nice slash to the bucket last game. He needs to put away his outside shot for awhile and just focus on driving.

hooter73
01-27-2016, 05:29 PM
Rue.








:)

U Zig, I Zag
01-27-2016, 06:07 PM
Few has set up some plays where Melson is getting the ball with some momentum AND the key is cleared because people are stepping out for the play to work. Melson gets right at the rim with ease. I wish they would do this more.

Coach Crazy
01-27-2016, 07:46 PM
You assume that Melson isn't going to improve and that Norvell is going to immediately adjust to the system. Plus, Melson is an above average defender.

1. Melson already has a significant sample size regarding his play. Could he improve? It's always possible. Anything is possible. But Melson was overhyped coming into this program. He was only a 3-star athlete. You'll get an average/below average player at a 300 or 400 minute per season clip.

2. Zack and Silas are not the same player. Zack was much higher rated, is bigger, more skilled and actually more of the style of player that fits into this system.

3. You don't need to be acclimated to the system in order to out-produce the terrible offensive numbers that you are seeing from Silas. Even at an improvement, how can anything more than a nominal improvement be expected?

4. While Silas plays good defense, his offense is dismal. Him being on the court actually makes the other team's defense better. He's less of an offensive player than he is a good defensive player.

ZagNative
01-27-2016, 07:49 PM
Another thread ruined by off-topic bashing of a Zag player. This board is becoming intolerable.

cggonzaga
01-27-2016, 08:33 PM
1. Melson already has a significant sample size regarding his play. Could he improve? It's always possible. Anything is possible. But Melson was overhyped coming into this program. He was only a 3-star athlete. You'll get an average/below average player at a 300 or 400 minute per season clip.

2. Zack and Silas are not the same player. Zack was much higher rated, is bigger, more skilled and actually more of the style of player that fits into this system.

3. You don't need to be acclimated to the system in order to out-produce the terrible offensive numbers that you are seeing from Silas. Even at an improvement, how can anything more than a nominal improvement be expected?

4. While Silas plays good defense, his offense is dismal. Him being on the court actually makes the other team's defense better. He's less of an offensive player than he is a good defensive player.

1,3 and 4...just no. I agree with a lot of what you have to say around here but sometimes you just take things too far or are just off base.

Hogan
01-27-2016, 09:02 PM
I know this has been debated to death but I do not any see any bashing of a player here. There is no malice or gross exageration, just a blunt assessment, with some interesting points some will agree or disagree with.

ProjectMKUltra5
01-27-2016, 09:34 PM
Another thread ruined by off-topic bashing of a Zag player. This board is becoming intolerable.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Xdcj75alQutVe/giphy.gif

Coach Crazy
01-27-2016, 10:16 PM
1,3 and 4...just no. I agree with a lot of what you have to say around here but sometimes you just take things too far or are just off base.

What is inaccurate about my statements? They're all true. You may not like the adjectives I have used, but that doesn't really change reality.

Again, we've talked about this before...it's basketball. College basketball. You get recruited to produce. Your scholarship status is largely based on that production. That production is defined, first, by numbers. Those numbers have value. Production will then be parsed within descriptive's. What you do has an effect on the outcome of the game, as a player. For instance, if a player were to come out and not score, commit turnovers, and allow the opposing player to score in excessive quantities, that would not be good. Nor would it be acceptable to keep people from saying that it is not good. Now, you may not like the adjectives that are you used to identify the level of "not good", but they are not attacks on the player.

If you do not like the adjectives, you are free to use your own. As well, please note that Bulldogs don't get special treatment with regard to the criticism they receive. That is intellectually dishonest. It should be a standard that is universal. Homerism is not acceptable. You can be a fan and still not be a homer.

Also, what if Silas was putting up those numbers as a recruit? He wouldn't get an offer from the staff and everyone would be okay with it. None of that is over the line.

cggonzaga
01-28-2016, 12:14 AM
I don't care for the adjectives used to describe him but that's not what I have a problem with. I get this generation thinks it's ok to write whatever you want about somebody while sitting behind a keyboard. I don't like that you try to back your statements up with what you believe to be true or fact when often it's just your opinion. Here are my issues with your statements.

1) A player a year and a half into his college career is not a significant sample size. I know that's hard for you to believe growing up in a now or never society but some things take some people a little longer. Silas has never received consistent playing time which he needs in order to develop a rhythm offensively. His defense has been above average at worst. Again, basketball is not only about offense. Also you need to get over the star rating system. It's like you haven't followed GU basketball over the past 20 years. You'd understand this elite program now was built from 3* or less players and still typically is.

2) Yes you have the size, type of player and ranking stuff correct. What you don't have correct is we have nothing to base claims off Zack being better or a better fit for this program. When Silas was recruited the coaching staff obviously thought he'd be a good fit or they wouldn't have offered him as a junior. Zack appears to be a great fit but who knows until he's here.

4) You're just simply wrong. His offense has not been dismal. True he hasn't shot the ball well but he certainly hasn't been a liability either. He rebounds well, runs the offense and doesn't generally turn the ball over. You're final two sentences are just ridiculous. For reasons stated above, he doesn't make the defense better. And if he was less of an offensive player than a good defensive player he wouldn't see the floor. I get the feeling you've never actually coached anything despite your moniker?

Zagnificent
01-28-2016, 05:14 AM
I don't care for the adjectives used to describe him but that's not what I have a problem with. I get this generation thinks it's ok to write whatever you want about somebody while sitting behind a keyboard. I don't like that you try to back your statements up with what you believe to be true or fact when often it's just your opinion. Here are my issues with your statements.

1) A player a year and a half into his college career is not a significant sample size. I know that's hard for you to believe growing up in a now or never society but some things take some people a little longer. Silas has never received consistent playing time which he needs in order to develop a rhythm offensively. His defense has been above average at worst. Again, basketball is not only about offense. Also you need to get over the star rating system. It's like you haven't followed GU basketball over the past 20 years. You'd understand this elite program now was built from 3* or less players and still typically is.

2) Yes you have the size, type of player and ranking stuff correct. What you don't have correct is we have nothing to base claims off Zack being better or a better fit for this program. When Silas was recruited the coaching staff obviously thought he'd be a good fit or they wouldn't have offered him as a junior. Zack appears to be a great fit but who knows until he's here.

4) You're just simply wrong. His offense has not been dismal. True he hasn't shot the ball well but he certainly hasn't been a liability either. He rebounds well, runs the offense and doesn't generally turn the ball over. You're final two sentences are just ridiculous. For reasons stated above, he doesn't make the defense better. And if he was less of an offensive player than a good defensive player he wouldn't see the floor. I get the feeling you've never actually coached anything despite your moniker?

I don't think anyone will say that Silas hasn't been a huge disappointment this season. With an incredibly short bench, he's played himself OFF of the court. His shooting has been poor, he's out of sync offensively, and I'd argue that he's a good defender only 80% of the time. He often gets out of position or beat hilariously (in my opinion, because he's being too aggressive or trying to make a play). I'm sure he's a good kid and he's doing his best, but even with such a great opportunity for floor time, he's played himself onto the bench. There's no telling how successful Zack will be. I suspect he'll be better than Silas has been, but that's pure speculation.

Reborn
01-28-2016, 07:29 AM
I enjoyed watching his video. He has all the moves, and is so quick. I'm so happy he will be playing in a Gonzaga uniform.

He reminds me of a young kid playing for Selah high school, just outside of Yakima, named Eiijah Pepper. Pepper is a Freshman for 5th ranked Selah who is averaging 22 points a game. As a freshman, Elijah is already the best player in the conference. He's playing 2A basketball, but this conference has some of the best players in Yakima Valley. I'm hoping Gonzaga begins to recruit Pepper because he's a rare one. AND HE PLAYS DEFENSE. He averages five steals a game. AND HE'S ATHLETIC. He's a very good rebounder. The kid has hops. Pepper is going to be recruited heavily; so I hope Gonzaga gets on him early.

Back to Norvell. He does appear to be quicker than Melson, which I like. He has a very quick reverse, spin move. He also seems to handle the ball better. Norvell can shoot the 3 ball, but I'm sure Melson could in high school too. I believe that Melson is beginning to fit in now, and I am enjoying watching him play much more the last few games. Early on, I feel he really struggled with his role on the team.

Go Zags!!!

cggonzaga
01-28-2016, 07:37 AM
He hasn't been a disappointment to me. Yeah I thought his offense would be better or he'd have shot better at least. Defensively I think he's generally been very good often times guarding the other teams best perimeter player. And actually no he hasn't played himself off the court as he's averaging over 21mpg. Maybe you think he's been a disappointment because your own expectations were too high?

BULLDOG#1
01-28-2016, 08:34 AM
1. Melson already has a significant sample size regarding his play. Could he improve? It's always possible. Anything is possible. But Melson was overhyped coming into this program. He was only a 3-star athlete. You'll get an average/below average player at a 300 or 400 minute per season clip.

2. Zack and Silas are not the same player. Zack was much higher rated, is bigger, more skilled and actually more of the style of player that fits into this system.

3. You don't need to be acclimated to the system in order to out-produce the terrible offensive numbers that you are seeing from Silas. Even at an improvement, how can anything more than a nominal improvement be expected?

4. While Silas plays good defense, his offense is dismal. Him being on the court actually makes the other team's defense better. He's less of an offensive player than he is a good defensive player.

Back to my previous point... you assume that Melson won't improve and that Norvell will immediately adjust to the zag system... I wouldn't make either of those assumptions. Are you not putting the same kind of hype on Norvell that others put on Melson? Come on, the difference between a high 3 star and a low 4 star is so slim. So to bolster your argument, you're saying that Melson was an overrated 3 star and Norvell is an underrated 4 star? Based on what? Norvell hasn't played a bit of college ball and Melson has been OK, not great, in the zag system. Sure, he was overhyped, but I think you're way too hard on him. I'd be shocked if we didn't see more improvement from Melson.

GoZags
01-28-2016, 08:54 AM
1. Melson already has a significant sample size regarding his play. Could he improve? It's always possible. Anything is possible. But Melson was overhyped coming into this program. He was only a 3-star athlete. You'll get an average/below average player at a 300 or 400 minute per season clip.

2. Zack and Silas are not the same player. Zack was much higher rated, is bigger, more skilled and actually more of the style of player that fits into this system.

3. You don't need to be acclimated to the system in order to out-produce the terrible offensive numbers that you are seeing from Silas. Even at an improvement, how can anything more than a nominal improvement be expected?

4. While Silas plays good defense, his offense is dismal. Him being on the court actually makes the other team's defense better. He's less of an offensive player than he is a good defensive player.

No ... he was NOT "overhyped" coming in to this program. The "hype" began shortly after last season began, with this Fran Fraschilla tweet. Don't make things up, please.
____
" Follow

Fran FraschillaVerified account
‏@franfraschilla
Portland's Silas Melson may be the best NBA prospect on Gonzaga's and he's REDSHIRTING this year. (BTW, that info comes from Mark Few.)
RETWEETS
86
LIKES
90
8:33 PM - 19 Nov 2014
Reply Retweet
Like
More"
https://twitter.com/franfraschilla?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Es erp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

ProjectMKUltra5
01-28-2016, 09:32 AM
No ... he was NOT "overhyped" coming in to this program. The "hype" began shortly after last season began, with this Fran Fraschilla tweet. Don't make things up, please.

Nah, the hype was very real around Silas as soon as he committed. I think it was pretty obvious to everyone that Silas has a fantastic mix of athleticism and offensive skill that really made our fans excited. Not a "true 3" but he was definitely a player our fans coveted from the jump, that tweet just sent things into overdrive.

Trust me, I was the conductor of the Silas Melson hype train lol

jazzdelmar
01-28-2016, 09:57 AM
Nah, the hype was very real around Silas as soon as he committed. I think it was pretty obvious to everyone that Silas has a fantastic mix of athleticism and offensive skill that really made our fans excited. Not a "true 3" but he was definitely a player our fans coveted from the jump, that tweet just sent things into overdrive.

Trust me, I was the conductor of the Silas Melson hype train lol

BasketballZag also weighed in on that.

Coach Crazy
01-28-2016, 10:15 AM
Nah, the hype was very real around Silas as soon as he committed. I think it was pretty obvious to everyone that Silas has a fantastic mix of athleticism and offensive skill that really made our fans excited. Not a "true 3" but he was definitely a player our fans coveted from the jump, that tweet just sent things into overdrive.

Trust me, I was the conductor of the Silas Melson hype train lol

It's all good. People don't want facts, at this point. Silas and Bryan are off limits, to them. Every Zag recruit deserves to be insulated against their truthful output on the court, and it's "attacking" to say otherwise.

To put things in perspective, right now Silas has better defense than Meech, but was less productive offensively. Both had a deficit between their ORrtg and DRtg. Those are not players you want on the court either at all, or very often.

Also, to GoZags: here is a piece from SSF that references both Mark Few and a Portland news publication, as well as a headline that provided what I would consider "over hype".

http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2014/5/7/5688096/2014-gonzaga-recruiting-silas-melson

He was over-hyped. He was a 3* athlete that people got carried away with in prognosticating.

jazzdelmar
01-28-2016, 10:20 AM
It's all good. People don't want facts, at this point. Silas and Bryan are off limits, to them. Every Zag recruit deserves to be insulated against their truthful output on the court, and it's "attacking" to say otherwise.

To put things in perspective, right now Silas has better defense than Meech, but was less productive offensively. Both had a deficit between their ORrtg and DRtg. Those are not players you want on the court either at all, or very often.

Also, to GoZags: here is a piece from SSF that references both Mark Few and a Portland news publication, as well as a headline that provided what I would consider "over hype".

http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2014/5/7/5688096/2014-gonzaga-recruiting-silas-melson

He was over-hyped. He was a 3* athlete that people got carried away with in prognosticating.

You're the new gun in town, CC. Love it. The torch of critical thinking is hereby passed.

vandalzag
01-28-2016, 10:26 AM
Nah, the hype was very real around Silas as soon as he committed. I think it was pretty obvious to everyone that Silas has a fantastic mix of athleticism and offensive skill that really made our fans excited. Not a "true 3" but he was definitely a player our fans coveted from the jump, that tweet just sent things into overdrive.

Trust me, I was the conductor of the Silas Melson hype train lol

He was so hyped up that he was going to redshirt last year? As you pointed out he has the the tools, but was to be a work in progress. The people who are claiming all the hype make it sound as though he was a 5 star one and one kind of player. If that was the case the staff never would have thought of having him sit last year. He has the tools, it was a matter of putting it together along with the mental aspect of the game. What we are seeing now is a player struggling to find his spot in offense. Making the adjustment from the go to guy, who the ball runs through every trip down the floor. On this team his roll is to feed the post and wait to see if they can make something happen. Shooters need to shoot, he will never get going if he does not get opportunities to get into any type of scoring flow. I think Richard Fox nailed it when he said that Silas fell in love with the 3 early on and is still trying to work his game into an offense that is really about 2 post players. Hard to drive to the hoop when there are 5 or 6 guys standing in the key. To his credit he is still playing hard and not having a pity party on the floor. If he did not have the tools/attitude/desire to be good Few and company would not be as invested in him and he would be sitting at the end of the bench playing nothing but garbage time.

vandalzag
01-28-2016, 10:29 AM
It's all good. People don't want facts, at this point. Silas and Bryan are off limits, to them. Every Zag recruit deserves to be insulated against their truthful output on the court, and it's "attacking" to say otherwise.

To put things in perspective, right now Silas has better defense than Meech, but was less productive offensively. Both had a deficit between their ORrtg and DRtg. Those are not players you want on the court either at all, or very often.

Also, to GoZags: here is a piece from SSF that references both Mark Few and a Portland news publication, as well as a headline that provided what I would consider "over hype".

http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2014/5/7/5688096/2014-gonzaga-recruiting-silas-melson

He was over-hyped. He was a 3* athlete that people got carried away with in prognosticating.

This is over-hype?
"Displays like this have led coach Mark Few to say things like this.

"He's already an excellent on-ball defender, and he's only 17. He's got a lot of potential and will have a real bright future here. He has a good feel for the game and is another guy with a good stroke who is a very good athlete."

jazzdelmar
01-28-2016, 10:33 AM
As hyped as he was, he wasn't going to play minutes over last year's three solid seniors. As well, the staff probably chose to invest minutes in the presumptive next point guard, Josh, rather than Melson, who then shirted. Rest is history. Crazy has well documented both the campus and off campus hype. NBA was thrown around, and so was early departure, as it was with Josh, by the way. It happens. But it's ostrich like to say the hype was not in the zeitgeist.

cggonzaga
01-28-2016, 10:52 AM
It's all good. People don't want facts, at this point. Silas and Bryan are off limits, to them. Every Zag recruit deserves to be insulated against their truthful output on the court, and it's "attacking" to say otherwise.

Coach, this retort of yours is getting old. You're smarter than this. Just because you state your case "as fact" it doesn't mean it is fact or that everybody has to take it as gospel because you say so. I go back to my statement that you probably haven't ever actually coached. Believe it or not it's not all about statistics or ORtg or DRtg. I don't believe anybody has said any player is off limits. Just don't be rude about it or think others can't have differing opinions.

I also find your responses to people's criticism of you entertaining since you're one of the main proponents of criticizing the players relentlessly. The players don't have the luxury of responding to your criticisms though.

vandalzag
01-28-2016, 10:52 AM
As hyped as he was, he wasn't going to play minutes over last year's three solid seniors. As well, the staff probably chose to invest minutes in the presumptive next point guard, Josh, rather than Melson, who then shirted. Rest is history. Crazy has well documented both the campus and off campus hype. NBA was thrown around, and so was early departure, as it was with Josh, by the way. It happens. But it's ostrich like to say the hype was not in the zeitgeist.

Well you know Jazz you can't tear them down if somebody does not build them up(such as your worship and then dismantling of Edwards). But the quote that Crazy was alluding to is quite the reach to say the staff was hyping him up. Sorry but if the coaches thought he was finished product or NBA level recruit they would never sit him for a year, regardless of the roster he would have played over KD if that was case. Melson could lead the team in scoring next year or could be playing D-3 who knows, but what purpose does this type of discussion(ranting) serve? Especially in a thread about another player. Are you so scared of being disappointed that a player does not live up the hype that somebody else is using to describe some teenager? And if you do not get immediate gratification you write them off? As I said before good thing you were not around the UW program when Dickau was there you would have hung him in effigy for failing to live up to your expectations.

jazzdelmar
01-28-2016, 11:22 AM
Well you know Jazz you can't tear them down if somebody does not build them up(such as your worship and then dismantling of Edwards). But the quote that Crazy was alluding to is quite the reach to say the staff was hyping him up. Sorry but if the coaches thought he was finished product or NBA level recruit they would never sit him for a year, regardless of the roster he would have played over KD if that was case. Melson could lead the team in scoring next year or could be playing D-3 who knows, but what purpose does this type of discussion(ranting) serve? Especially in a thread about another player. Are you so scared of being disappointed that a player does not live up the hype that somebody else is using to describe some teenager? And if you do not get immediate griatification you write them off? As I said before good thing you were not around the UW program when Dickau was there you would have hung him in effigy for failing to live up to your expectations.

After years of watching some of the greatest scholastic point guards in the country, I feel secure that I would have recognized Dan's talents even at that stage?

vandalzag
01-28-2016, 12:03 PM
After years of watching some of the greatest scholastic point guards in the country, I feel secure that I would have recognized Dan's talents even at that stage?

Good lord is difficult to go through life with that much humility? I know this is the internet and all but lets have just a small dose of reality. Nobody on the west coast predicted a first team AA talent was sitting over in Husky land biding his time. Nobody on the Zag staff saw him doing that either.

zag67
01-28-2016, 12:10 PM
I would like to add some stats to Melson's game. He is doing many of the things that Dranginis has done and I think he will be the glue for his last 2 years.

For the last 10 games:
He is averaging 20 minutes a game.
He has had only 3 turnovers
He has had about 8 assists
He has 2.1 rebounds
He has about 3.3 points (shooting 2.6 shots per game) This was the same problem that KD had his first few years when you do not get shots it is hard to become a scorer.
Also he has played great defense (and yes he does over extend at times)

I think that he will work really well with The Zacks next year.

Zagceo
01-28-2016, 12:31 PM
I would like to add some stats to Melson's game. He is doing many of the things that Dranginis has done and I think he will be the glue for his last 2 years.

For the last 10 games:
He is averaging 20 minutes a game.
He has had only 3 turnovers
He has had about 8 assists
He has 2.1 rebounds
He has about 3.3 points (shooting 2.6 shots per game) This was the same problem that KD had his first few years when you do not get shots it is hard to become a scorer.
Also he has played great defense (and yes he does over extend at times)

I think that he will work really well with The Zacks next year.

Vandal take notice…….making a point with facts and comparisons works much better IMHO.

Well done 67

vandalzag
01-28-2016, 12:39 PM
Vandal take notice…….making a point with facts and comparisons works much better IMHO.

Well done 67

Notice taken but when you use things like facts with Jazz it really confuses him, unless they support his post then you are good to go.

Hoopaholic
01-28-2016, 01:02 PM
something has occurred with Melson and the stats don't lie IMO as it pertains to confidence, action and results after the WSU game.

His production has truly fallen off after the first 6 games and in critical games his playing time reflected this lack of confidence in his ability to right the ails.

Arizona 15 minutes, Uclad 14 mintues, Tennesee 12 minutes, LMU 15 minutes, BYU 13 minutes and SMC 14 minutes


First Six Games: AFTER WSU GAME

37% from Floor 19-51 26% 14-53 he shot as many shots in first 6 games as he has the last 14 games
28% 3 point line 6-21 20% 5-25 he almost shot as many three pointers in first 6 games as he has last 14 games
21 rebound or 3.5 per game 30 rebounds or 2.1 per game
9 assist or 1.5 per game 10 assist or .7 per game
1 block shot 1 block shot
7 steals 1.1 per game 6 steals or .4 per game
12 fouls or 2 per game 27 fouls or 1.9 per game ********about same
6 turnovers or 1 per game 7 turnovers or .5 per game ********Improvement
66 total points or 11 per game 42 total points or 3 per game
165 minutes or 27.5 min per game 266 minutes or 19 per game

something is amiss and for all the talk about other players......THIS is the key to our season IMO......for whatever reason he needs to get back to playing the way he did the first 6 games of season

23dpg
01-28-2016, 01:03 PM
As hyped as he was, he wasn't going to play minutes over last year's three solid seniors. As well, the staff probably chose to invest minutes in the presumptive next point guard, Josh, rather than Melson, who then shirted. Rest is history. Crazy has well documented both the campus and off campus hype. NBA was thrown around, and so was early departure, as it was with Josh, by the way. It happens. But it's ostrich like to say the hype was not in the zeitgeist.


I don't disagree with much that has been written about Melson's season so far. I'd bet he's a little disappointed too. But I do strongly disagree with the statement that is was well known that Melson was going to be great. It's not at all what I remember. I watched Silas play for Jefferson and kept track of him once he committed to Gonzaga. At that time there was no hype about him. Most Zags knew very little about his game. Then one day, a long-time respect poster makes the future NBA statement. That's well within his rights and he's free to do so. But in no way was that the prevailing attitude. I would counter that the hype is urban legend. Hard to compete against that.

Worthington
01-28-2016, 02:04 PM
My two cents. There was definitely a lot of hype surrounding Melson before he ever played a game for us (But the same could be said for about every recruit we've ever landed). Relative to the hype and even my own expectations (which I don't think were as high as many), I think it's fair to say Melson has been underwhelming up to this point. I mean this is a guy who was invited to the Team USA camp with a bunch of future NBA players and current college studs. He can't be satisfied with his performance or role this season so far.

I also think it's fair to question Melson's fit with the style of play to this point. We knew that he was a one on one, break down the defense type of scorer coming out of high school and being by far the best player on his championship winning team. It's clear to me that he's still adjusting to being surrounded by other talented players and figuring out that the way he was able to play at the high school level just isn't going to be as effective at the college level.

On the other hand, I don't think it's unreasonable to think Norvell could be a better fit for the system right away. He's a very good passer by all accounts, appears to be more of a catch and shoot guy and has the body to be able to come in and handle himself at the next level. As fans of the team, we know just about as well as anybody what kind of players tend to thrive in the system.

Again, this is just my opinion. I'm pulling for both of these guys to succeed at Gonzaga.

Zagceo
01-28-2016, 02:10 PM
something has occurred with Melson and the stats don't lie IMO as it pertains to confidence, action and results after the WSU game.

His production has truly fallen off after the first 6 games and in critical games his playing time reflected this lack of confidence in his ability to right the ails.

Arizona 15 minutes, Uclad 14 mintues, Tennesee 12 minutes, LMU 15 minutes, BYU 13 minutes and SMC 14 minutes


First Six Games: AFTER WSU GAME

37% from Floor 19-51 26% 14-53 he shot as many shots in first 6 games as he has the last 14 games
28% 3 point line 6-21 20% 5-25 he almost shot as many three pointers in first 6 games as he has last 14 games
21 rebound or 3.5 per game 30 rebounds or 2.1 per game
9 assist or 1.5 per game 10 assist or .7 per game
1 block shot 1 block shot
7 steals 1.1 per game 6 steals or .4 per game
12 fouls or 2 per game 27 fouls or 1.9 per game ********about same
6 turnovers or 1 per game 7 turnovers or .5 per game ********Improvement
66 total points or 11 per game 42 total points or 3 per game
165 minutes or 27.5 min per game 266 minutes or 19 per game

something is amiss and for all the talk about other players......THIS is the key to our season IMO......for whatever reason he needs to get back to playing the way he did the first 6 games of season

Nice extraction………….this is really the power of a passionate group that can push and pull stats and theory in trying to uncover the puzzle of creating the most efficient team.

Thx hoop

jazzdelmar
01-28-2016, 02:27 PM
something has occurred with Melson and the stats don't lie IMO as it pertains to confidence, action and results after the WSU game.

His production has truly fallen off after the first 6 games and in critical games his playing time reflected this lack of confidence in his ability to right the ails.

Arizona 15 minutes, Uclad 14 mintues, Tennesee 12 minutes, LMU 15 minutes, BYU 13 minutes and SMC 14 minutes


First Six Games: AFTER WSU GAME

37% from Floor 19-51 26% 14-53 he shot as many shots in first 6 games as he has the last 14 games
28% 3 point line 6-21 20% 5-25 he almost shot as many three pointers in first 6 games as he has last 14 games
21 rebound or 3.5 per game 30 rebounds or 2.1 per game
9 assist or 1.5 per game 10 assist or .7 per game
1 block shot 1 block shot
7 steals 1.1 per game 6 steals or .4 per game
12 fouls or 2 per game 27 fouls or 1.9 per game ********about same
6 turnovers or 1 per game 7 turnovers or .5 per game ********Improvement
66 total points or 11 per game 42 total points or 3 per game
165 minutes or 27.5 min per game 266 minutes or 19 per game

something is amiss and for all the talk about other players......THIS is the key to our season IMO......for whatever reason he needs to get back to playing the way he did the first 6 games of season


Excellent analysis. Now the human shield gang on this board have to figure a way to throw themselves on this statistical hand grenade.

GoZags
01-28-2016, 03:20 PM
Also, to GoZags: here is a piece from SSF that references both Mark Few and a Portland news publication, as well as a headline that provided what I would consider "over hype".

http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2014/5/7/5688096/2014-gonzaga-recruiting-silas-melson

He was over-hyped. He was a 3* athlete that people got carried away with in prognosticating.

I believe I understand.

It's simply semantics (vis a vis what constitutes "over" hype). It's your belief that those articles you've linked (none of which mentioned the NBA) were examples of "over" hype.

It was my belief that the "over" hype began when Fraschilla published Mark Few's "thoughts" on Melson's NBA potential ... i.e. Melson after several years in the program.

I agree to disagree ... and in the meantime am hopeful that the "lightbulb" will click on for Silas (and a couple of others) so we can worry about whether the Zags get sent to Spokane (which WILL happen if they run the table) or remain on the bubble. Right now I'd take a trip to Akron for a "play-in" First Four game in a heartbeat.

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-28-2016, 03:33 PM
something has occurred with Melson and the stats don't lie IMO as it pertains to confidence, action and results after the WSU game.

His production has truly fallen off after the first 6 games and in critical games his playing time reflected this lack of confidence in his ability to right the ails.

Arizona 15 minutes, Uclad 14 mintues, Tennesee 12 minutes, LMU 15 minutes, BYU 13 minutes and SMC 14 minutes


First Six Games: AFTER WSU GAME

37% from Floor 19-51 26% 14-53 he shot as many shots in first 6 games as he has the last 14 games
28% 3 point line 6-21 20% 5-25 he almost shot as many three pointers in first 6 games as he has last 14 games
21 rebound or 3.5 per game 30 rebounds or 2.1 per game
9 assist or 1.5 per game 10 assist or .7 per game
1 block shot 1 block shot
7 steals 1.1 per game 6 steals or .4 per game
12 fouls or 2 per game 27 fouls or 1.9 per game ********about same
6 turnovers or 1 per game 7 turnovers or .5 per game ********Improvement
66 total points or 11 per game 42 total points or 3 per game
165 minutes or 27.5 min per game 266 minutes or 19 per game

something is amiss and for all the talk about other players......THIS is the key to our season IMO......for whatever reason he needs to get back to playing the way he did the first 6 games of season

Interesting stats Hoop thanks for posting these.

My guess is that the first stat is the most revealing: 51 shots in the first six games averages out to 8-9 shots per game. I'm guessing the coaches reeled him in due to poor shot selection, not running the offense before taking a shot and simply not shooting it well.

To Melson's credit, he is taking the coaching and playing accordingly. The problem is he seems to be thinking so much now rather than just playing ball, which is taking its toll on his confidence.

Stay the course Silas. Keep focusing on what the coaches want you to focus on...defense, running the offense, no turnovers.....and stroke it with confidence young man. ZagNation wants to believe, help our unbelief :-)))

john montana
01-28-2016, 03:42 PM
Saw him in high school and couldn't believe the "one and done" comments that came from some posters on here. the hype on the board for Melson was crazy. That said, I commented earlier this year that it was clear to me we needed Melson to have a big year to achieve our potential. He hasn't thus far. I still think he needs to score for us. I'm not holding my breath for a sudden turnaround, but if it comes this team will be dangerous.

basketballzag
01-28-2016, 04:06 PM
BasketballZag also weighed in on that.

I believe I backed off that statement shortly thereafter but thanks for the reminder Jazz. LOL

DixieZag
01-28-2016, 04:09 PM
Not sure if I said this already, but I think his shot selection and offensive cohesion have improved markedly. He just flat misses anything outside of 10 ft and it's hard for me to believe he did that in HS. He's in Meech territory and I still think there's at least an "average" D-1 shooting guard inside him, which I didn't see in Meech, and despite all the evidence.

jazzdelmar
01-28-2016, 04:31 PM
I believe I backed off that statement shortly thereafter but thanks for the reminder Jazz. LOL

Heavy sits the mantle of authority, BBZ.

Hoopaholic
01-28-2016, 05:16 PM
Interesting stats Hoop thanks for posting these.

My guess is that the first stat is the most revealing: 51 shots in the first six games averages out to 8-9 shots per game. I'm guessing the coaches reeled him in due to poor shot selection, not running the offense before taking a shot and simply not shooting it well.

To Melson's credit, he is taking the coaching and playing accordingly. The problem is he seems to be thinking so much now rather than just playing ball, which is taking its toll on his confidence.

Stay the course Silas. Keep focusing on what the coaches want you to focus on...defense, running the offense, no turnovers.....and stroke it with confidence young man. ZagNation wants to believe, help our unbelief :-)))

I agree. He clearly has the skill set just needs to do it without thinking about it

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2016, 09:23 PM
Poor Silas looks so lost out there and can't get anything to drop. I feel bad for the kid.

cggonzaga
01-28-2016, 09:24 PM
Not sure if I said this already, but I think his shot selection and offensive cohesion have improved markedly. He just flat misses anything outside of 10 ft and it's hard for me to believe he did that in HS. He's in Meech territory and I still think there's at least an "average" D-1 shooting guard inside him, which I didn't see in Meech, and despite all the evidence.

Just like tonight, every shot he took was right on line. When you're struggling nothing goes right. He's going to have a breakout game soon here I can feel it.

DixieZag
01-28-2016, 09:27 PM
Poor Silas looks so lost out there and can't get anything to drop. I feel bad for the kid.

0-5.

Amazing.

Using same ball, basket, as everyone else. Really strange.

maynard g krebs
01-28-2016, 09:39 PM
Good lord is difficult to go through life with that much humility? I know this is the internet and all but lets have just a small dose of reality. Nobody on the west coast predicted a first team AA talent was sitting over in Husky land biding his time. Nobody on the Zag staff saw him doing that either.

Gonna side w/ Jazz this time. As I've mentioned a number of times, the first time I saw Dickau play, I went out and bought a Husky season ticket for his fr year. He looked like the great Big 5 Philly pg's I watched in my youth in the 60's/70's from the first moment. Had a terrific second half of his fr year; didn't start but was in at the end of every game and played about 20 mpg in their stretch run to the tourney, ouptlaying Earl Watson down the stretch of their final game w/ UCLA and drawing raves from national announcers in the Huskies' run to the sweet 16.

His soph year he tried playing on a broken foot too soon (stress fracture I think) and was lost for the year, and despite having McCulloch and Watts and a pretty good fr in Senque Carey, the Huskies weren't as good.

And it was obvious that Dan was limited by the offensive approach of Bob Bender. Before he played a game, I predicted, and have witnesses, that he'd be a top 5-6 pg nationally as a jr and top 3 as a sr. once he got to play the Zags' style of that era. First team, no. Didn't think he'd be that good. But Dan's talent was recognizable to me, as it was to the Sports Illustrated writer in the fall of 97 in their CBB preview issue who listed Dan as one of 3 under the radar recruits (another was Michael Redd, forget the third) who could be key players on tourney teams.

From my interactions w/ Jazz I think he'd have spotted Dan too.