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webspinnre
11-26-2015, 10:59 AM
No touch for Wiltjer or Karnowski? Good grief.

SwainZag
11-26-2015, 11:02 AM
No touch for Wiltjer or Karnowski? Good grief.

Can't go to Karno with his free throw shooting. Really surprised they didn't run something especially for KW though

Alum08
11-26-2015, 11:02 AM
Should have advanced the ball and THEN called the timeout.

MickMick
11-26-2015, 11:02 AM
Credit TAMU for playing good defense.


Inexperience shows, but the best GU guards were on the floor.

You can tell who Few trusts by who is on the floor with the game on the line. That end game lineup is the future (for this season)

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 11:03 AM
Melson must have forgot what the play was.

zagsfanforlife
11-26-2015, 11:04 AM
Nope. Kennedy made a great call with the press.

23dpg
11-26-2015, 11:06 AM
I said exactly that on the SSF game thread. You avoid the confusion and rush of bringing the ball up court.

Edit to add, replying to Alum08
Should have advanced the ball and THEN called the timeout

jayray
11-26-2015, 11:06 AM
Melson must have forgot what the play was.

Ridiculous, Dranginis should of went to the hoop.

Zags11
11-26-2015, 11:08 AM
Nope. Kennedy made a great call with the press.

Got out coached or out schemed or out planned in last 2minutes.

maroon93
11-26-2015, 11:09 AM
did we have a timeout left?

CDC84
11-26-2015, 11:09 AM
No timeouts left.

The key with that last sequence is that they kept the ball completely out of Perkins' hands. They forced a non-play maker to make a play.

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 11:09 AM
Ridiculous, Dranginis should of went to the hoop.

I would venture to say KD would have tossed up a brick. He was a disaster on the O today.

raise the zag
11-26-2015, 11:09 AM
Young guards and we let them close it out.

Senseless.

More reasons we lost, but damn, give us a chance to win at the end.

Run a play.

Wiltjer attempted 1 shot, 1 SHOT, the final 7 mins of play.

Crazy.

JAGzag
11-26-2015, 11:11 AM
KW is no Adam Morrison. I don't see the killer instinct in him.

CDC84
11-26-2015, 11:12 AM
KW doesn't have the ability to score ISO against great defenders and against double teams. Adam did that regularly. In all fairness, they play different positions. Adam was a wing with excellent ballhandling capabilities.

Saxon_zag
11-26-2015, 11:13 AM
Melson played great D, I understand why he was getting minutes... But he's about the last person I trust on the floor on offense right now.. Total chucker

raise the zag
11-26-2015, 11:16 AM
Frustrating Alberts doesn't get more opportunities.

At least 6'5", maybe 6'6", shooting 60% from 3pt, seems to be more crisp with the ball than many, and his defense is sound.

I don't get it.

He can play. Seems obvious. Give him more PT and see what happens.

He didn't attempt a shot today. Not just 2 min bursts, see if he misses a shot, then pull him.

Plays the half-court offense better than most of our guards.

jazzdelmar
11-26-2015, 11:18 AM
Hey, at least they got a shot off. Teams last few years would have struggled to do so.

Outraged
11-26-2015, 11:39 AM
He got the shot off. It could have gone to KW.

UberZagFan
11-26-2015, 11:49 AM
Yes, KW should be taking that last shot. But the whole team folded on offense down the stretch. ONE friggin' point scored in the last FIVE minutes of the game! Horrible. Great coaching coming out of the TO at the 2:00 minute mark after Melson got trapped. The team looked like they were not even aware of the shot clock and Drags had to loft a NBA three. Or maybe Few drew that one up too.

john montana
11-26-2015, 11:51 AM
Good call by Kennedy...kept the ball from Perkins, but even so we somehow ended up with kd running downhill in a 2 vs 2 with PK. For some unknown reason kd pulled the ball back out. Crazy. We had a 2 on 2 attack going...go the the rim!

I don't see it with Alberts. I really like him and he can shoot the ball but it isn't like he is going to shore up the ball handling or ball movement. He has to play at the 3 since he has even worse handles than kd, and I trust kd a lot more.

Section 116
11-26-2015, 12:00 PM
Zags made one Karnowski free throw in the last 5 and a half minutes. And 4-11 from the free throw line. As usual in a game like this it really isn't totally about the "last shot" or lack thereof.

thespywhozaggedme
11-26-2015, 12:03 PM
Got out coached or out schemed or out planned in last 2minutes.

If we had made our ft's it would've been a moot point

VinnyZag
11-26-2015, 12:05 PM
Wiltjer made a 3-pointer with 12:43 left, then only got ONE more shot the rest of the way. Even worse, he only got one touch on the last three critical possessions, and that was 20-plus feet away, facing up on a clear out.

I just don't think the coaches out him in a position to succeed there. He's an all-American, you've got to find a way to get it to him in his spot.

Zagcity
11-26-2015, 12:15 PM
Should have advanced the ball and THEN called the timeout.

That's what I thought was going to be called, but that will have to wait for another day. Great effort after the initial time out in the second half though and this game definitely will prepare us come March.

webspinnre
11-26-2015, 12:19 PM
Wiltjer made a 3-pointer with 12:43 left, then only got ONE more shot the rest of the way. Even worse, he only got one touch on the last three critical possessions, and that was 20-plus feet away, facing up on a clear out.

I just don't think the coaches out him in a position to succeed there. He's an all-American, you've got to find a way to get it to him in his spot.

Absolutely. Definitely didn't help not having Domas out there at the end either.

CDC84
11-26-2015, 12:19 PM
It is very true that you can't have your 5th option on offense taking that last shot unless it's a wide open layup or a put back.

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 12:35 PM
It looked to me on the replay of the last play that Melson could have dished the ball to KW. It would have been a long shot for him, but I see no reason to believe that KW wouldn't have been able to get a shot off, and maybe even have drawn the foul. Melson just wasn't the guy for the last shot at this point in his career.

jazzdelmar
11-26-2015, 12:41 PM
It looked to me on the replay of the last play that Melson could have dished the ball to KW. It would have been a long shot for him, but I see no reason to believe that KW wouldn't have been able to get a shot off, and maybe even have drawn the foul. Melson just wasn't the guy for the last shot at this point in his career.

Two time Oregon POY isn't ready for that shot?

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 12:43 PM
Two time Oregon POY isn't ready for that shot?

Haha. I see what you did there. Yup.

krii
11-26-2015, 12:59 PM
Can't go to Karno with his free throw shooting. Really surprised they didn't run something especially for KW though
Even if he's shooting on 50% rate (IMO it would be higher with time as it seems like his FTs are much better this year than previously) he would have had opportunity for shot (he is huge so there was a chance for ball to fall even with a foul-try) and even that 50% ratio would give him about 1 basket from this FTs. That's at least a draw, isn't it?:-)

jpwils
11-26-2015, 01:00 PM
Haha. I see what you did there. Yup.

Can't go 4-11 on free throws and win when Sabonis has an average to down ( for him) game or is on bench with foul trouble.

Can't ignore your All American on last two possessions and expect to beat a team with sophs and freshmen in big game situations.

HOWEVER, we were at least in a position to win and can learn alot from this game for this will be the blueprint of how good teams will look to beat us moving forward. VERY HARD LESSON for our team but must learn and move into tougher opponents but HOME COOKING-
very painful to watch end of game. NO MATTER WHO is on the FREE THROW LINE we have to make 70% for game and SENIORS ( NO MATTER WHO ) need to make 80% at end of game to insure victory- otherwise, this could happen 7-8 more times this year!

Hoping we went to school on thiis today !

Love our team !

Zags11
11-26-2015, 01:03 PM
If we had made our ft's it would've been a moot point

Totally agree. Also we got outcoached last 2 minutes. Few was step behind at tbe end. It happens.

23zagmd
11-26-2015, 01:08 PM
I'm not going to go so far as to say we got outcoached, but these 3 possessions yielded only confusion in our offensive sets. First one they surprised us with a zone with 7 on shot clock, second one a trap, and the final one we just didn't execute the half court. If the plan is to go to KW, why is he inbounding the ball....I think I would have had PK inbound and have KW in the front court....he wasn't even part of the play...rushed or not.

Anyway, frustrating but obviously a learning exp none the less


Got out coached or out schemed or out planned in last 2minutes.

Zags11
11-26-2015, 01:13 PM
Out coached or out schemed either way. Aggie coach was step ahead in lasr 2minutes

Hoopaholic
11-26-2015, 03:24 PM
I'm not going to go so far as to say we got outcoached, but these 3 possessions yielded only confusion in our offensive sets. First one they surprised us with a zone with 7 on shot clock, second one a trap, and the final one we just didn't execute the half court. If the plan is to go to KW, why is he inbounding the ball....I think I would have had PK inbound and have KW in the front court....he wasn't even part of the play...rushed or not.

Anyway, frustrating but obviously a learning exp none the less

My guess is confusion due to lack of experience in this close game setting...learning experience and a teaching tool to become better....also remember rule change may have had slight impact as coach can't call timeouts and there is fewer timeouts available

Zagger
11-26-2015, 03:31 PM
Last play of the game ..... was not effective. Live & learn!

VinnyZag
11-26-2015, 04:00 PM
Interesting quote from Few in Meehan's game story (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/nov/26/gonzaga-drops-close-one-to-texas-am/):


“We had a play set up,” Few said. “They went into a soft three-quarter press, which is what we expected. Then we got stuck whether we should have run the play or just attacked. We need to attack there. I need to coach them better. We pulled it out and we didn’t need to pull it out.

“But we also got a good shot. That’s a makeable shot. I’m very comfortable with Silas taking that shot.”

cjm720
11-26-2015, 04:08 PM
Would have liked to see Dranginis push that w Karno at the end. But frankly surprised Sabonis wasn't in for K.

Melson got a bit nervous but I'd bet money he'll get the next one.

gonzagafan62
11-26-2015, 04:10 PM
No touch for Wiltjer or Karnowski? Good grief.

Web,

Mark likes to outsmart the competition and have someone get a good look at the basket. Melson was full on covered though as the rest of the team looked on. Seemed as though only 2 guys were on that side of the court. Didn't understand. Few instances I remember that Mark went non conventional in these situations:

1. Arizona last year: going wiltjer instead of pangos or bell..... (At least at that time IMO wiltjer shouldn't have taken last shot)
2. Wcc tournament 2014 vs Santa Clara (David Stockton instead of Dower)


There's a few more if you really think about it. I'm not mentioning anymore games some of them should be unmentioned

gonzagafan62
11-26-2015, 04:12 PM
Would have liked to see Dranginis push that w Karno at the end. But frankly surprised Sabonis wasn't in for K.

Melson got a bit nervous but I'd bet money he'll get the next one.

Cjm,

Sabonis fouled out at that point already, he couldn't have played on that last play

cjm720
11-26-2015, 07:04 PM
Cjm,

Sabonis fouled out at that point already, he couldn't have played on that last play

Thanks, I realized that later...at the time I had my two boys jumping on my back and missed that...his fouls trouble was definitely the difference in the game, unfortunately.

gonzagabasketball
11-26-2015, 07:38 PM
Ridiculous, Dranginis should of went to the hoop.


Interesting quote from Few in Meehan's game story:

“We had a play set up,” Few said. “They went into a soft three-quarter press, which is what we expected. Then we got stuck whether we should have run the play or just attacked. We need to attack there. I need to coach them better. We pulled it out and we didn’t need to pull it out.

“But we also got a good shot. That’s a makeable shot. I’m very comfortable with Silas taking that shot.”

When it Dranginis pulled up live I yelled, "Go to the hoop!" Press was beat, you have the advantage of TAMU not wanting to foul, and the rest of your offense trailing for a potential tip in. The last possession was lost as soon as he pulled up, wasted time, but most importantly allowed the D to recover. As Few stated though, they still managed a makeable shot.

The game was probably lost at the foul line, and as great as Perkins played he missed the font end of at least two, maybe three 1 and 1s. It was a winable game, and a frustrating loss, but certainly not the end of the world.

WallaWallaZag
11-26-2015, 08:57 PM
When it Dranginis pulled up live I yelled, "Go to the hoop!" Press was beat, you have the advantage of TAMU not wanting to foul, and the rest of your offense trailing for a potential tip in. The last possession was lost as soon as he pulled up, wasted time, but most importantly allowed the D to recover. As Few stated though, they still managed a makeable shot.

I think some of the criticism and expectations for dranginis are unfair...he's never been a starter and has probably always been about the 5th option for his first three years...can't expect him to suddenly flip a switch just because he's the most experienced perimeter player on the team...it's been drilled into him to defer and only shoot when he's wide open and only drive when there's an open highway to the hoop.

CDC84
11-26-2015, 09:05 PM
I always look at the larger picture. The game was lost because Sabonis fouled out with 2 points. This team isn't going to be beat many top 25 opponents unless the big men all play well. And to beat top 10 teams, two have to play well, and one has to be great.

That's just the way it is with the makeup of this roster.

If Sabonis just had a normal game....say 12 points and 8 boards, the Zags wouldn't have been in a position where they needed players to nail pressure packed one on ones and a last second shot.

WallaWallaZag
11-26-2015, 09:13 PM
I always look at the larger picture. The game was lost because Sabonis fouled out with 2 points. This team isn't going to be beat many top 25 opponents unless the big men all play well. And to beat top 10 teams, two have to play well, and one has to be great. If Sabonis just had a normal game....say 12 points and 8 boards, the Zags wouldn't have been in a position where they needed players to nail pressure packed one on ones and a last second shot.

sabonis still needs some more skill development...and learn to go to his right. otherwise this is going to happen from time to time when he's evenly matched physically and can't simply succeed by playing harder and being more physical.

CDC84
11-26-2015, 09:42 PM
No doubt, but he also needs to stop getting frustrated and mentally allow his game to fall to pieces just because a series of plays doesn't go his way. It happened in about 2 or 3 games last year, and it happened again today. Once he gets frustrated he overreacts, gets overly emotional on the court, and is saddled with foul issues the rest of the game. It's almost as if he just gets pissed and doesn't even want to be there. He becomes a non-entity when he should always be an entity at some level....even if it just means having an average game.

TexasZagFan
11-27-2015, 04:48 AM
No doubt, but he also needs to stop getting frustrated and mentally allow his game to fall to pieces just because a series of plays doesn't go his way. It happened in about 2 or 3 games last year, and it happened again today. Once he gets frustrated he overreacts, gets overly emotional on the court, and is saddled with foul issues the rest of the game. It's almost as if he just gets pissed and doesn't even want to be there. He becomes a non-entity when he should always be an entity at some level....even if it just means having an average game.

+1

Basketball is a simple game (with apologies to Bull Durham): you pass the ball, you catch the ball, you dribble the ball, you shoot the ball. When you lollygag at the free throw line, you shoot 4-11 and you lose the game. It's as simple as that.

Next game's in less than 4 hours, let's see how they bounce back.

vandalzag
11-27-2015, 06:36 AM
Totally agree. Also we got outcoached last 2 minutes. Few was step behind at tbe end. It happens.

So your saying that coaching mistakes led to the missed free throws...that is brilliant.

gonzagabasketball
11-27-2015, 06:40 AM
I think some of the criticism and expectations for dranginis are unfair...he's never been a starter and has probably always been about the 5th option for his first three years...can't expect him to suddenly flip a switch just because he's the most experienced perimeter player on the team...it's been drilled into him to defer and only shoot when he's wide open and only drive when there's an open highway to the hoop.

Its more a critique than a criticism. And youre propably right, as you have seen this from the guards all season mostly except for the second half from Perkins yesterday. The adjustment from deferential roles to the standard bearers of the program offensively. I notice it most when, Perkins included, they pick up their dribble and stand there. A guard, point especially, should never pick up his dribble unless its to immediately pass or shoot. Its getting better, of course, and will likely continue to do so, but its still happening and on that last possession I think it cost them. In open gym Dranginis would never have pulled up to pass that off, his instincts would have dictated he push it to the hoop for the reasons I stated. Thats my opinion anyway.

The game however, was really not lost on that last possession, I think Perkins 1 and 1 misses were more significant. Also there is some merit to Wiltjer not making any buckets over the last 5 minutes, though I think he had a jump ball called and another one taken away, and a travel I believe, Im not entirely sure but it wasnt as if he just quit shooting it seems to me.

Edit to add: I also agree about Sabonis, his performance was costly. The point about his tendency to fall apart with frustation a few times a year is valid, and something I am sure they are looking to improve. This team has a higher ceiling than last years team with regard to the physical level of opponent they can beat, in my opinion. But they are not nearly as polished or disciplined yet, and may never be. As many have stated, most of the short comings look like they are correctable with coaching, and while they certainly wont have as good as a record as last year I think they have the potential to have a much better shot against a team like last years Duke. But we shall see, a long ways to go yet.

Zagnificent
11-27-2015, 07:09 AM
Ridiculous, Dranginis should of went to the hoop.

This was my thought exactly. I thought he had the lane, and would at least have drawn a foul if not made the lay-up. Only issue there was that time would have been left on the clock, and there's no way that was the call Few made. Even then, that's a split second decision and I can't fault him for trying to do what Few had called.

Zagnificent
11-27-2015, 07:25 AM
Its more a critique than a criticism. And youre propably right, as you have seen this from the guards all season mostly except for the second half from Perkins yesterday. The adjustment from deferential roles to the standard bearers of the program offensively. I notice it most when, Perkins included, they pick up their dribble and stand there. A guard, point especially, should never pick up his dribble unless its to immediately pass or shoot. Its getting better, of course, and will likely continue to do so, but its still happening and on that last possession I think it cost them. In open gym Dranginis would never have pulled up to pass that off, his instincts would have dictated he push it to the hoop for the reasons I stated. Thats my opinion anyway.

The game however, was really not lost on that last possession, I think Perkins 1 and 1 misses were more significant. Also there is some merit to Wiltjer not making any buckets over the last 5 minutes, though I think he had a jump ball called and another one taken away, and a travel I believe, Im not entirely sure but it wasnt as if he just quit shooting it seems to me.

Edit to add: I also agree about Sabonis, his performance was costly. The point about his tendency to fall apart with frustation a few times a year is valid, and something I am sure they are looking to improve. This team has a higher ceiling than last years team with regard to the physical level of opponent they can beat, in my opinion. But they are not nearly as polished or disciplined yet, and may never be. As many have stated, most of the short comings look like they are correctable with coaching, and while they certainly wont have as good as a record as last year I think they have the potential to have a much better shot against a team like last years Duke. But we shall see, a long ways to go yet.

All good points. I really feel like this was a "good loss," though (if there is such a thing). Perkins really turned the corner, and Few made the right decisions with who to have on the court for the second half. The team experienced a tough and disciplined zone, and learned that they'll have to get much better at learning to break it and get the ball inside effectively. Sabonis had a poor game, and even against tough defense he will have a better showing than that 99% of the time. FT shooting was inexcusably poor. I thought the team played wonderful defense though. There were plenty of bright spots. I think this game'll be remembered for the collective growth, and not necessarily for the loss.