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View Full Version : Our guards were great today



cggonzaga
11-26-2015, 10:46 AM
And exceptional defensively!

MickMick
11-26-2015, 11:01 AM
Once Few removed a certain player in the second half, you saw our guards play decently.

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 11:01 AM
And exceptional defensively!

Lol. No, they weren't. JP was good for half of a half. Can't hit FTs yet, tho. KD was horrific. Melson wasn't the go to guy at the end, but he must have forgot.

But, they will learn.

zagsfanforlife
11-26-2015, 11:02 AM
great?

Wouldnt say that.

Perkins played well, but Pg has to hit his ft's down the stretch. He didnt. Also Kennedy outcoached few. Multiple times.

Ezag
11-26-2015, 11:03 AM
With Pangos and Bell we win this game, even Pangos and Bell as Freshman

NEC26
11-26-2015, 11:04 AM
Far from great, but Perkins showed signs of life. Finally started being assertive rather than passive.

Plainsman
11-26-2015, 11:11 AM
Seriously, ZagLawGrad, Dranginis was horrific? He wasn't perfect, as several players weren't today, but he plays tough, mostly effective defense and is the hustle rebounder on the team (along with Sabonis). Without the stability of Dranginis, this is a lesser team.

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 11:13 AM
Seriously, ZagLawGrad, Dranginis was horrific? He wasn't perfect, as several players weren't today, but he plays tough, mostly effective defense and is the hustle rebounder on the team (along with Sabonis). Without the stability of Dranginis, this is a lesser team.

He played some good D. But he was horrific on the O. No? Yes?

And I happen to be a fan of the kid.

zagamatic
11-26-2015, 11:13 AM
the best play I saw Perkins make today was on the possession after he made that three where dranginis got fouled and Perkins sprinted across the court to help Dranginis up, that's leadership!

Zags11
11-26-2015, 11:17 AM
Tough loss. Just need to scrap a W tomorrow. And I disagree on bell and pangos. Yea better fts for sure but defense would be worse hence duke in E8.

Plainsman
11-26-2015, 11:18 AM
He played some good D. But he was horrific on the O. No? Yes?

And I happen to be a fan of the kid.

I'm not one to get into a petty back and forth on a message board. Yes, Dranginis could have been better offensively, but I don't think any of us expect Kyle to be even in the top five options for offense. He hits an occasional three and an occasional good drive as he did today. He always performs consistently on defense, rebounding and assists, so why down on a kid you like?

maynard g krebs
11-26-2015, 11:21 AM
Perkins grew up today, for the most part except for the FT's. Took over when ATM took away the post game. Melson played a lot more intelligently today than yesterday. I thought he got more run than McClellan because ATM did so well at taking away the inside game, and GU needed to spread the floor. It's gonna be situational as to who plays more btw those guys. McClellan does a lot of good things that some people are missing imo.

tyra
11-26-2015, 11:23 AM
You all can discuss the pluses and minuses of guard play all you like. But when our sixth man, arguably the best player on our team and a likely first round draft choice, scores two whole points and fouls out of the game, we are going to lose. And we did.

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 11:23 AM
I'm not one to get into a petty back and forth on a message board. Yes, Dranginis could have been better offensively, but I don't think any of us expect Kyle to be even in the top five options for offense. He hits an occasional three and an occasional good drive as he did today. He always performs consistently on defense, rebounding and assists, so why down on a kid you like?

I think I said my piece. Veteran player with lots of minutes over his career. Need to step up.

Saxon_zag
11-26-2015, 11:24 AM
You all can discuss the pluses and minuses of guard play all you like. But when our sixth man, arguably the best player on our team and a likely first round draft choice, scores two whole points and fouls out of the game, we are going to lose. And we did.

Still would have won despite that if we shoot even 50% from the line. Not quite sure how a division 1 team shoots from the line how we just did.

CdAZagFan
11-26-2015, 11:25 AM
You all can discuss the pluses and minuses of guard play all you like. But when our sixth man, arguably the best player on our team and a likely first round draft choice, scores two whole points and fouls out of the game, we are going to lose. And we did.

Good point, Tyra... Sabonis had a tough game.

jazzdelmar
11-26-2015, 11:26 AM
With Pangos and Bell we win this game, even Pangos and Bell as Freshman

Maybe if they had built a ten point lead but not on a final shot, saw that act before.

zagsfanforlife
11-26-2015, 11:26 AM
You all can discuss the pluses and minuses of guard play all you like. But when our sixth man, arguably the best player on our team and a likely first round draft choice, scores two whole points and fouls out of the game, we are going to lose. And we did.

KW did a Houdini act act the end as well. Not winning any close games with that combo.

raise the zag
11-26-2015, 11:28 AM
KW did a Houdini act act the end as well. Not winning any close games with that combo.

Guards started to look for their shot, which was working, but bit us in the end.

Wiltjer needs to attempt more in closing minutes.

He took 1 shot attempt in the final 5 minutes.

Inexcusable.

Reborn
11-26-2015, 11:30 AM
The guards were good, but not great. Perkins was great in the second half. Melson was improved. Dranginis, imo, played poorly the second half, and hurt us with some BAD turnovers.

john montana
11-26-2015, 11:31 AM
We lost the game at the free throw line. We go 4/11, and they shoot 13/16. Ballgame. We hit a few of those free throws down the stretch and we are up multiple possessions.

Positive note, perk showed flashes. But the bottom line is if we don't get solid play from eMac and melson then our front court means very little. We need those guys to not only get us into a set but keep the set moving. They stop the ball and it kills us...we need to keep it moving and then one of bigs pops free on the block.

We just don't have enough ball handling. Alberts can shoot it, but can't put the ball on the floor twice without risking a turnover. Kd is the smartest guard we have but doesn't have the handles to attack without a wide open lane.

Better game by the guards today, but we need to continue to see improvement. As the guards go so does our season.

Plainsman
11-26-2015, 11:40 AM
Dranginis had two turnovers the entire game according to ESPN box score.

cggonzaga
11-26-2015, 11:47 AM
Basketball and guard play is not only about offense people. Our guards were great defensively. As a team we had too many empty possessions under 3 minutes. I do agree free throws killed us and a couple very questionable foul calls late in the game.

zagzilla
11-26-2015, 11:49 AM
Dranginis solid. 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 treys. Not sure why the bashing. Only wish he had pushed the ball to the rim on the final play whenhe had the chance instead of holding up and letting ATM get set

Hoopaholic
11-26-2015, 11:50 AM
The guards were good, but not great. Perkins was great in the second half. Melson was improved. Dranginis, imo, played poorly the second half, and hurt us with some BAD turnovers.

Help me understand the turnoverS part. He had one in first half trying feed post. He had one second half driving to bucket

Hoopaholic
11-26-2015, 11:52 AM
Guards started to look for their shot, which was working, but bit us in the end.

Wiltjer needs to attempt more in closing minutes.

He took 1 shot attempt in the final 5 minutes.

Inexcusable.

Can't have all American SENIOR disappearing last 5 minutes of critical close game

And he has to want the last shot and not pass back out

john montana
11-26-2015, 11:53 AM
Help me understand the turnoverS part. He had one in first half trying feed post. He had one second half driving to bucket

Agree. I think I want watching a totally different game. Kd was crucial for us.

Hoopaholic
11-26-2015, 11:56 AM
Agree. I think I want watching a totally different game. Kd was crucial for us.

Guards played well. We win 99 percent of our games if they play solid

Sabonis and wiltjer disappointing

Zagger
11-26-2015, 11:59 AM
Free throws tonight! Go Zags!

Saxon_zag
11-26-2015, 12:05 PM
KD played fine.. Should be more concerned about Melson not knowing how to get his shots in the flow of the offense and concerned with emac about to get the Marquise Carter treatment from few or what? I mean he hasn't been great but he did knock down a jumper or 2, had that steal and finish early.. I know he's a senior but it's only 3 games in, why is his leash shorter than Melson who looks honestly terrible on the offensive side of the ball thus far.

Zagcity
11-26-2015, 12:08 PM
Agree. I think I want watching a totally different game. Kd was crucial for us.

Ditto

webspinnre
11-26-2015, 12:21 PM
Guards played well. We win 99 percent of our games if they play solid

Sabonis and wiltjer disappointing

Wiltjer disappointing? What exactly is he supposed to do if he doesn't get the touches?

VinnyZag
11-26-2015, 12:26 PM
Dranginis really defended well on the second half, too. I thought he played really well ... And so did the ore guards, by abs large.

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 12:29 PM
Agree. I think I want watching a totally different game. Kd was crucial for us.

He made errors at bad times that veteran players with his minutes over his career cannot make in tough games. He gave up two TOs with lazy passes at crucial times. Took a long 3 when the play needed to be inside, and drove the basket getting stuffed when he needed to get it to KW or PK. 2-6 from the floor. Missed a FT when it was crucial. His D looked pretty decent.

cggonzaga
11-26-2015, 12:55 PM
He made errors at bad times that veteran players with his minutes over his career cannot make in tough games. He gave up two TOs with lazy passes at crucial times. Took a long 3 when the play needed to be inside, and drove the basket getting stuffed when he needed to get it to KW or PK. 2-6 from the floor. Missed a FT when it was crucial. His D looked pretty decent.

You need to re-watch the game. The long 3 was because there was 3 seconds left on the shot clock and his defense was great all game but especially so in the 2nd half. House is a great player and Kyle pretty much shut him out in the 2nd half besides some free throws.

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 12:59 PM
You need to re-watch the game. The long 3 was because there was 3 seconds left on the shot clock and his defense was great all game but especially so in the 2nd half. House is a great player and Kyle pretty much shut him out in the 2nd half besides some free throws.

I watched the game. His D was decent. Maybe you need to re-name this thread. The guards did not play great today. Guards will get better, but they are reason for early concern.

Birddog
11-26-2015, 01:15 PM
He made errors at bad times that veteran players with his minutes over his career cannot make in tough games. He gave up two TOs with lazy passes at crucial times. Took a long 3 when the play needed to be inside, and drove the basket getting stuffed when he needed to get it to KW or PK. 2-6 from the floor. Missed a FT when it was crucial. His D looked pretty decent.

We watched different games together.
Check the Box Score. KD did not have a bad day. Could it have been better? probably, but he is not responsible for the loss, not even close. He logged a team high 37 mins too.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/texas-am-aggies-gonzaga-bulldogs-201511260233/

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 01:17 PM
We watched different games together.
Check the Box Score. KD did not have a bad day. Could it have been better? probably, but he is not responsible for the loss, not even close.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/texas-am-aggies-gonzaga-bulldogs-201511260233/

We did see a different game. And I did look at his stats. And no one is blaming him for the loss.

tyra
11-26-2015, 01:26 PM
We might have lost because of terrible free throw shooting.
We might have lost because of a few real questionable calls.
We might have lost because several of our guards are still maturing.
We might have lost because A and M is flat out a good team.
We definitely did NOT lose because KD didn't hold up his end of the bargain.
And I'll say it again, we will lose EVERY TIME our NBA-in-the-making star only scores two points and fouls out. EVERY time!

Hoopaholic
11-26-2015, 03:22 PM
Wiltjer disappointing? What exactly is he supposed to do if he doesn't get the touches?

Demand the ball...show leadership, take the shot inside a minute to go instead of passing it out perimeter amongst other disappearing acts last ten minutes of game

gonzagafan62
11-26-2015, 04:14 PM
Perkins was a beast in the second half for sure and it's encouraging that he can shoot the ball when he's wide open. I would not say they played great but rather decent. Seemed like all of them had one half they played well separately. Gotta put it together

Reborn
11-26-2015, 04:40 PM
Help me understand the turnoverS part. He had one in first half trying feed post. He had one second half driving to bucket

I saw him throw the ball away twice, because of very lazy passing. He was aggressive on Offense in the first half hitting two threes but then where did he go? What did he do the second half? He is not the Dranginis of last year. This is this year, and IMO he needs to score more. I've been saying that, Few et al have been saying that for years. We NEED more threats from the guards. PERIOD. iF WE don't get it, THEN you will see what happens. Dranginis is a senior starter now, and it's about time he steps up more. That's just my opinion. How many times were our bigs, especially Sabonis and wiltjer getting double and tripple teamed. I wonder why????

Reborn
11-26-2015, 04:43 PM
You need to re-watch the game. The long 3 was because there was 3 seconds left on the shot clock and his defense was great all game but especially so in the 2nd half. House is a great player and Kyle pretty much shut him out in the 2nd half besides some free throws.

His defense was not great. He was guarding their leading score, HOmes, and I thought Homes dominated him.

cggonzaga
11-26-2015, 05:29 PM
His defense was not great. He was guarding their leading score, HOmes, and I thought Homes dominated him.

I agree with you on a lot of things Reborn but you're wrong this time. House had 12 on 5-6 shooting in the first half while mostly being guarded by McClellan. He made 2 incredibly difficult shots. In the 2nd half with mostly Kyle on him he shot 1-3 and scored 7 points helped out by 5 free throws on a couple questionable fouls. Kyle was all over him and you could tell House was getting frustrated. To hold a very good scorer to only 3 attempts in the 2nd half should say something about the defense being played on him.

Also our guards out scored A&M 35-29 and had 11 assists to their 10. We get that kind of production from our guards and we're going to win more often than not. We make a couple more free throws and Sabonis has an average game we win that game by 10.

john montana
11-26-2015, 05:30 PM
The kd hate is just nuts. He was by far our best perimeter defender this game...not even close. He had two turnovers...two. And he is one of the only guards who can actually maintain our offensive movement. Granted, he isn't a good enough ball handler to be a severe drive and attack threat but at least he comes off the screen hard and looks to do something rather than just stopping the ball and killing our offense.

I agree he needs to look for his shot more, as does Perkins, but of our wing players he is by far the most reliable one we have.

Reborn
11-26-2015, 06:28 PM
I don't think that any one would argue that he is our best 3. I am only saying the Zags need more from him. We need a little more from the 3 this year unless Melson begins to find his shot with some consistency. KD is are darn good rebounder, I give him that. And he's a very good defensive player. He just needs to be in the attack mode a little more, and stop stop throwing passes that are not crisp. I think kyle loses focus on the offensive end at times.

webspinnre
11-26-2015, 07:23 PM
We've got to get some sort of offense from either the 2 or the 3 if we're going to make a run this year (in addition to continued improvement from Perkins).

ZagsObserver
11-26-2015, 07:36 PM
KD played fine.. Should be more concerned about Melson not knowing how to get his shots in the flow of the offense and concerned with emac about to get the Marquise Carter treatment from few or what? I mean he hasn't been great but he did knock down a jumper or 2, had that steal and finish early.. I know he's a senior but it's only 3 games in, why is his leash shorter than Melson who looks honestly terrible on the offensive side of the ball thus far.

Carter was lucky to play as long as he did given his play. EMac will play if he earns it. Same with any of the players

WallaWallaZag
11-26-2015, 08:24 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Ezag View Post
With Pangos and Bell we win this game, even Pangos and Bell as Freshman

Maybe if they had built a ten point lead but not on a final shot, saw that act before.

tight end of game situations are a lot easier when you have guys who can create or get their own shot...not something the zags specialize in, so no daggers since probably morrison...maybe olynyk could qualify as an end of game go-to guy.

also somewhat agree with those criticizing wiltjer...he needs to demand the ball and find a way to at least put up the shots...i can live with him missing and at least it looks like his shooting stroke is back. in some ways, it seems as if his game has devolved into where most of his points come from when he has a size mismatch in the post...

jim77
11-26-2015, 10:32 PM
KD played a good game. The guys need to loosen up a bit and let the game come to them.....BEAT UCONN.

Plainsman
11-27-2015, 10:30 AM
Any complaints about KD today?????

BigZagFan
11-27-2015, 10:32 AM
None here

zag67
11-27-2015, 10:36 AM
none here. Player of the game.

NEC26
11-27-2015, 10:40 AM
KD was really good today and player of the game for me. Does not change the fact he had two really lazy passes in the last game that resulted in turnovers and buckets.

RenoZag
11-27-2015, 10:45 AM
Seth G said the Zags would have to fill the guard minutes 'by committee,' that GU wouldn't be able to rely on just one guy, as it did with Pangos. Haven't seen anything so far this year that would contradict that view.

I don't think we do very well in March if we are still in that mode, do you ?

TexasZagFan
11-27-2015, 10:49 AM
Seth G said the Zags would have to fill the guard minutes 'by committee,' that GU wouldn't be able to rely on just one guy, as it did with Pangos. Haven't seen anything so far this year that would contradict that view.

I don't think we do very well in March if we are still in that mode, do you ?

Let's revisit that question after 2/16 & SMU, that's only 10 weeks away.

Hoopaholic
11-27-2015, 11:25 AM
Seth G said the Zags would have to fill the guard minutes 'by committee,' that GU wouldn't be able to rely on just one guy, as it did with Pangos. Haven't seen anything so far this year that would contradict that view.

I don't think we do very well in March if we are still in that mode, do you ?

I think the youngsters will matured by the sum game and be very solid

gonzagafan62
11-27-2015, 12:58 PM
B
Seth G said the Zags would have to fill the guard minutes 'by committee,' that GU wouldn't be able to rely on just one guy, as it did with Pangos. Haven't seen anything so far this year that would contradict that view.

I don't think we do very well in March if we are still in that mode, do you ?

I disagree Reno. I think we'd fo a lot better. Fresher players equals less fatigue. That equals better and more focused players. Keep humble and hungry. Fight till the death. Go damn zags!