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slam dunk
11-25-2015, 11:00 AM
Fouls, turnovers, missed free throws, sloppy guard play...thank you UW for not making your shots

willandi
11-25-2015, 11:15 AM
Fouls, turnovers, missed free throws, sloppy guard play...thank you UW for not making your shots

Yeah! We didn't play that well either. UW has to be thanking the Zags for poor FT shooting and only 49% from the floor.

john montana
11-25-2015, 11:16 AM
UW missed shots because they were terrible shots completely out of the flow of any sort of offense. So much talent there on the floor...just no talent in the coach's box.

NEC26
11-25-2015, 11:17 AM
Our guard play is really poor. Poor decisions, poor ball handling, lazy passes, one on one ball at times by Melson and Mclellan. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

MickMick
11-25-2015, 11:19 AM
Fouls, turnovers, missed free throws, sloppy guard play...thank you UW for not making your shots

You are partially right. Washington does play ugly basketball. No skill. Just flailing fouls. They foul with great effort and ugly up the game.

It is UW that made this game ugly. This is just a preview of what the overmatched WCC will attempt to do. Those games will be ugly as well.

HenneZag
11-25-2015, 11:25 AM
Relax folks.
Yes a lot of sloppy runs in that game, poor decisions from some of the guards with lazy passes. We had trouble with the press that's no question. Perkins is still learning and will get better throughout the season. Not just Perkins several players had trouble feeding passes and breaking the press.

With that said, give some credit to UW they're an athletic, hard nosed, in your face type of team. I'm glad we went through that today. With some of those troubles we managed to win by dbl digits to a team that will surprise the Pac 12 IMO.

Next year will be a different game as UW will be scary good next year. Dejounte Murray is a good looking player and I'm still bitter we lost that recruiting battle.

TacomaZAG
11-25-2015, 11:28 AM
Two things........1) Our guard play was atrocious again today. After Perkins there is a giant vacuum at the point. Melson is NOT the answer, he is a 2-guard with poor vision and bad handles. McClellan had flashes today but no consistency. So that leaves Draino and Alberts as the back-up PG. One of these guys needs to step up because that is going to be the team's Achilles heel this year. Really early, but no good so far. 2) It's just hard to watch another version of the Romar mess. No discipline, bad shots, bad shooters, no team concept on either offense or defense, another steaming pile on Montlake. No team guys, a bunch of individuals out there getting theirs. Murray and Chriss were definitely not good today, just simply overmatched, frustrated, and selfish.

Our big 3 certainly lived up to the hype today, good games for each of them. Always good to beat the Fuskies, 9 of the last 10 and counting..........

Go ZAGS

bartruff1
11-25-2015, 11:29 AM
Big win...important in this tourney and for the season.....there are no style points, just points......

Plenty for the coaches to chew on.....

ehk 21
11-25-2015, 11:32 AM
Watched the game on ESPN 2. Seth Greenberg and the talking heads were far less critical of the team than many on the forum. Seth and the crew seemed to think that the Zags look pretty good. Yes, we made mistakes, yes our guards need to improve, but remember this is only the third full game we've played. Our players will continue to improve and we'll be fine.

BULLDOG#1
11-25-2015, 11:32 AM
Playing ugly was the only way UW could win - they have the athletes, but not the skill set to match GU. The offensive rebounds were a bit concerning, as were some of the TOs...

But really, this was a GREAT win against a highly athletic, motivated, and hard nosed team. Zags should be happy with the result and move on.

Hoopaholic
11-25-2015, 11:34 AM
Really bad when the opposing teams point guard gets 11 rebounds. Ouch

HenneZag
11-25-2015, 11:37 AM
It amazes me sometimes how spoiled we have been. Yes I felt like the guard play was sub par and we haven't seen consistency yet in the 3 games we have played, but give the kids a break. UW is a talented team,yes inconsistent and from the sounds of most posters a terrible team. I give some credit to UW on why our guards struggled today, we need games like this, especially early in the season. Has GU ever been a great team when pressed or doubled?..no. The team knows what needs to be addressed and I'm confident we will see improvement moving forward. After reading this I feel like I should be upset that we won by 16. Be happy folks, we just beat UW! Let's see how the rest of the tourney goes.

Hoopaholic
11-25-2015, 11:39 AM
It amazes me sometimes how spoiled we have been. Yes I felt like the guard play was sub par and we haven't seen consistency yet in the 3 games we have played, but give the kids a break. UW is a talented team,yes inconsistent and from the sounds of most posters a terrible team. I give some credit to UW on why our guards struggled today, we need games like this, especially early in the season. Has GU ever been a great team when pressed or doubled?..no. The team knows what needs to be addressed and I'm confident we will see improvement moving forward. After reading this I feel like I should be upset that we won by 16. Be happy folks, we just beat UW! Let's see how the rest of the tourney goes.

Except 14 of 17 turnovers occurred in front court. Press did not bother us as much today as it did other day against run and jump

23dpg
11-25-2015, 11:41 AM
Except 14 of 17 turnovers occurred in front court. Press did not bother us as much today as it did other day against run and jump

It's hard to press when you don't make baskets.

dan71w
11-25-2015, 11:44 AM
we won by a good margin, and really the score was closer than the game. Washington uglied the game, and over all we handled the press good. I didn't see our guards making that bad of decisions; when Washington was slapping at everything and in your face, it will create turnovers, that is what that type of defense is designed to do. there where points where i think we started rushing, but at the speed of the game; that is more about getting caught in the moment and momentum.
overall i am happy for the double digit win considering the doom and gloom some keep suggesting. ugly basketball sure,,,,,,,BOTH teams, but the better team controlled the game from the start.

NEC26
11-25-2015, 11:44 AM
Of course I'm happy we won but its really concerning seeing we have no guards truly capable of handling the ball(including Perkins). The poor decision making is frustrating but at least thats a teachable problem. Melson and Mclellan have questionable handles at best(to go along with poor decision making) and I don't see that improving over the year. This will be our weakness this year no doubt. NGW will make a huge difference next year.

john montana
11-25-2015, 11:49 AM
It wasn't the turnovers to me so much as the struggle. We had a tough time dribbling, a tough time passing, and a really tough time getting the ball into the post (especially for a stretch in the 2nd half). We need to be much stronger with the ball. With the bigs we have it is crucial we run a little offense so we can get them the ball in the right spots and situations. literally every time we managed to run a set that wasn't disrupted with a dropped ball, or a near turnover we got a great look and usually scored.

I think our guards will get there...but we need to get there fast.

Vanzagger
11-25-2015, 11:49 AM
Scoreboard

Reborn
11-25-2015, 11:51 AM
Many very funny, hilarious posts. Before the game it was all about UW beating us because of how well they drive to the basket.. Well..I saw them driving and getting their shots blocked. Gonzaga's defense was EXCELLENT. UW shot 25% from the field. As poor as our guards shot GU finished with 50% shooting from the field. A 16 point victory is very good imo. I predicted they'd only win by six because so many GU fans felt the Zags would get beat. UW looked horrible on offense to me. They play very good defense, and that only helps the Zags as they go forward. 17 turnovers is not good, but it's early in the season, and the U-dub played good D.

Zagger
11-25-2015, 11:57 AM
I only got to watch it in bits and pieces - prolly saw 40% of game but without sound (at work). I liked a lot of what I saw and was confused about the rest. I was not at all impressed with UW. I didn't get to see things too well but what I saw I was surprised GU guys put up with the swatting and hacking UW did. I wasn't surprised that our big 3 got the bulk of the points. I was surprised to see 17 turnovers! Yikes! That's got to stop! We'd have really blown UW out if we'd found the handle on the ball. If we can't fix TOs I don't think we win this tourney. With 17 in this game it's not an aberration - it's a problem. Come on Few, get these guys focused!

BobZag
11-25-2015, 11:58 AM
It's a lousy ballroom converted to a gym. What next, the beach?

cggonzaga
11-25-2015, 12:01 PM
Once again the fan base on this board wants to overplay our guard struggles. Our guards weren't great but they weren't as bad as some are making them out to be. We do struggle at the point without Perkins but Draino and EMac can still get us in the offense. If anything we should be ecstatic to the start of this season. We are nowhere as good as we're going to be in a month or 2 from now. Should be pretty scary for our future opponents.

As for UW, they are who I thought they were. Athletic and undisciplined. They play hard but will never win a game this year against good teams that know how to play the game the right way.

bballbeachbum
11-25-2015, 12:05 PM
It wasn't the turnovers to me so much as the struggle. We had a tough time dribbling, a tough time passing, and a really tough time getting the ball into the post (especially for a stretch in the 2nd half). We need to be much stronger with the ball. With the bigs we have it is crucial we run a little offense so we can get them the ball in the right spots and situations. literally every time we managed to run a set that wasn't disrupted with a dropped ball, or a near turnover we got a great look and usually scored.

I think our guards will get there...but we need to get there fast.

this here. and got to battle out that weakside glass on D!

Zagricultural
11-25-2015, 12:06 PM
Hit the free throws, and the game cannot get so ugly. We need to make teams pay for uglying it up or we will see this a lot this year IMO. Why not hack agressively if the Zags cannot hit free throws?

cggonzaga
11-25-2015, 12:11 PM
Another misconception from the game. We shot 30-44 from the stripe, 69%. Could it be better? Sure. But it wasn't brutal either.

Zagricultural
11-25-2015, 12:18 PM
Another misconception from the game. We shot 30-44 from the stripe, 69%. Could it be better? Sure. But it wasn't brutal either.

I disagree. Outside of Wiltjer and Sabonis ( 17-20 ) We shot horrible. The rest of the team was 13-24, 54%. If I was Shaka Smart I would pressure our guards like crazy, because right now they can't hit a bloody free throw.

Marcus
11-25-2015, 12:25 PM
Normaly I would be pulling my hair out at all the turnovers and missed freebies but it never seemed that Washington was ever really in a position to make them pay. When there is so many fouls called it is so hard to maintain any rhythm and really sieze momentum. I thought that KD did a good job of calming things down and providing the team with some senior leadership when needed.

raise the zag
11-25-2015, 12:28 PM
Fans were spoiled by Pangos & Bell, who are both the leading scorers of their professional teams.

This is our team now. Learn to love them instead of not-picking their worst.

We knew we'd lose unexpected games this season as a result of our inexperienced, raw, albeit talented guard play.

They have improved EVERY game in one or more facets.

Today was defense. UW was averaging 90 ppg. Held them 30 below their average, not to mention forcing ugly shots.

We are overvaluing & undervaluing our backcourt.

The defense is arguably much better so far. Alberts a bright spot, Perkins was solid vs top tier talented guards.

Our big 3 was expected to carry this team. Amazing guard play a bonus, but not expected.

What NCAA team has both? Maybe UNC, and that's about it...

A ton to be proud of -- they out-performed my expectations today. All of them, save Sabonis.

I liked their aggression, defense, adapting, following the gameplan, save Silas.

A competitive and solid win.

On to the next...A&M has Jalen Jones back & would be a HUGE win vs Top-25 team.

MDABE80
11-25-2015, 12:33 PM
Guards must improve. No failed stupid dunks. over time we will get better or a pair of good defenders will shut us down. Our guys look pretty weak right now. Although k Dranginis did get 11 boards...the other guards looked iffy. uW looked hellacious with the street ball approach. We won.

jazzdelmar
11-25-2015, 12:37 PM
Guards must improve. No failed stupid dunks. over time we will get better or a pair of good defenders will shut us down. Our guys look pretty weak right now. Although k Dranginis did get 11 boards...the other guards looked iffy. uW looked hellacious with the street ball approach. We won.


I agree with the term "weak" or listless. Just not strong w the ball. They don't have to score. Care for the ball and FEED our amazing bigs. And play ordinary D.

Tmac5360
11-25-2015, 01:07 PM
I agree the Zags didn't rebound well. However I would say that this is the MOST athletic group the boys will face all season. It cracks me up that people say over and over that Zags will get out rebounded on the offensive end and then when it happens they go crazy. GU does not have crazy athletes like UW, but they won by 15 and it easily could have 25. Let them gel a little and grow up. It's game 3!!

VinnyZag
11-25-2015, 01:32 PM
I disagree. Outside of Wiltjer and Sabonis ( 17-20 ) We shot horrible. The rest of the team was 13-24, 54%. If I was Shaka Smart I would pressure our guards like crazy, because right now they can't hit a bloody free throw.

Sure, but outside of Karnowski and Dranginis (1-6) the rest of the team shot 30-36 (83 percent)! Point being, you can't arbitrarily throw out two players. Also, I doubt GU will be playing Texas tomorrow. Texas lost to this UW team.

23zagmd
11-25-2015, 01:35 PM
How does LORO not ratchet up the ball pressure when Perkins goes to the bench???? Honestly, we have one ballhandler that doesn't dribble it off his thigh 40% of the time with a little ball pressure.....good god!
UW missed shots because they were terrible shots completely out of the flow of any sort of offense. So much talent there on the floor...just no talent in the coach's box.

bballbeachbum
11-25-2015, 01:36 PM
I agree the Zags didn't rebound well. However I would say that this is the MOST athletic group the boys will face all season. It cracks me up that people say over and over that Zags will get out rebounded on the offensive end and then when it happens they go crazy. GU does not have crazy athletes like UW, but they won by 15 and it easily could have 25. Let them gel a little and grow up. It's game 3!!

in the first half the Zags rebounded the weakside well, they can do it. second half they didn't as well. it's not just about athletes imo. But I also give UW credit for bringing it hard the second half in that aspect. Zags responded OK imo. Have to also consider that UW missed a TON of shots, especially first half when they basically ran no O. Second half was different, they executed a little better, so they were in spots to board better, etc. I thought. UW actually OK when they ran their stuff seemed to me, they just didn't run it much.

maynard g krebs
11-25-2015, 01:37 PM
Watched the game on ESPN 2. Seth Greenberg and the talking heads were far less critical of the team than many on the forum. Seth and the crew seemed to think that the Zags look pretty good. Yes, we made mistakes, yes our guards need to improve, but remember this is only the third full game we've played. Our players will continue to improve and we'll be fine.

Good post.

maynard g krebs
11-25-2015, 01:55 PM
I don't get the talk about McClellan being an inadequate ball handler at all. I'm comfortable with seeing him bring the ball up against pressure.

If I read a number of selected posts today, I'd have thought the Zags lost, or barely won a squeaker.

The glass is about 75% full imo; a lot more positives than negatives, in the form of a pro front line and guards that are following the game plan, with only one exception (Melson).

As to the offensive rebounds- 22 is a lot, sure, but it's important to remember how many shots they missed. Zags got 37 defensive boards. I think a general average is that teams get around a third of offensive reb opportunities (somebody can correct me with an exact # if that's wrong), so out of 59 misses, you'd expect the offensive team to get 19-20. Considering the Huskies' quickness and leaping, being even with them on the boards overall was good enough for an easy win.

Hoopaholic
11-25-2015, 01:56 PM
I don't get the talk about McClellan being an inadequate ball handler at all. I'm comfortable with seeing him bring the ball up against pressure.

If I read a number of selected posts today, I'd have thought the Zags lost, or barely won a squeaker.

The glass is about 75% full imo; a lot more positives than negatives, in the form of a pro front line and guards that are following the game plan, with only one exception (Melson).

As to the offensive rebounds- 22 is a lot, sure, but it's important to remember how many shots they missed. Zags got 37 defensive boards. I think a general average is that teams get around a third of offensive reb opportunities (somebody can correct me with an exact # if that's wrong), so out of 59 misses, you'd expect the offensive team to get 19-20. Considering the Huskies' quickness and leaping, being even with them on the boards overall was good enough for an easy win.

So was coach few even when Perkins was in the game it was Mac doing PG duties

john montana
11-25-2015, 02:02 PM
So was coach few even when Perkins was in the game it was Mac doing PG duties

saw that too. At least Mac attacked...granted, his decision making isn't fantastic, but he would make one move, go by his man and cross the timeline. Perkins wanted to yo yo a bunch, which is tough against that murray kid.

Mantua
11-25-2015, 02:09 PM
Of course I'm happy we won but its really concerning seeing we have no guards truly capable of handling the ball(including Perkins). The poor decision making is frustrating but at least thats a teachable problem. Melson and Mclellan have questionable handles at best(to go along with poor decision making) and I don't see that improving over the year. This will be our weakness this year no doubt. NGW will make a huge difference next year.

The Huskies will need to recruit a point guard. Andrews is a senior.

bballbeachbum
11-25-2015, 02:29 PM
So was coach few even when Perkins was in the game it was Mac doing PG duties

Emac seemed to struggle more half court and setting up the O, but he still got some things done in his own way there. sure is on the floor a lot with his dribble still alive, Curly Neal, a little hectic. but to compare to Perkins 3 games in, JP more able half court to do his thing and impact, Emac can get the ball up the floor better vs. pressure.

Zagricultural
11-25-2015, 03:14 PM
Sure, but outside of Karnowski and Dranginis (1-6) the rest of the team shot 30-36 (83 percent)! Point being, you can't arbitrarily throw out two players. Also, I doubt GU will be playing Texas tomorrow. Texas lost to this UW team.

Point taken. My point is that our starting backcourt shot 7-16, 44% which is terrible! And like I said I would ratchet up the pressure on them if they shoot like that, because they aren't going to make you pay like they would if they could just hit their Free-Throws.

ZagLawGrad
11-25-2015, 04:53 PM
No question that our guards did not look good or play well today.

But the good news is that there is a lot of time for them to improve. And they will.

Hoopaholic
11-25-2015, 06:14 PM
No question that our guards did not look good or play well today.

But the good news is that there is a lot of time for them to improve. And they will.

Absolutely if they embrace the script, expectations and roles expect nothing less

CDC84
11-25-2015, 06:28 PM
It's a long season folks. They just have to keep improving. And keep playing hard nosed defense. This could be the best set of perimeter defenders Few has had on any one team.

But yes, too many dumb turnovers. Perkins has a real lazy handle, as does Melson. At least EMac can speed dribble the ball up the floor, but he's not so adept at running offense.

jim77
11-25-2015, 11:28 PM
It's a long season folks. They just have to keep improving. And keep playing hard nosed defense. This could be the best set of perimeter defenders Few has had on any one team.

But yes, too many dumb turnovers. Perkins has a real lazy handle, as does Melson. At least EMac can speed dribble the ball up the floor, but he's not so adept at running offense.

yup.....wanna see more of Emac and KD going to the hole. Emac scewed up a few times but, I like is aggressiveness. This team plays like their capable of playing and its going to get ugly.

zaguarxj
11-26-2015, 06:50 AM
Anyone who ever complains about Few having a player on a "leash" needs to watch the Huskies play. That's what it looks like when players are not "leashed."

ZagLawGrad
11-26-2015, 07:57 AM
Anyone who ever complains about Few having a player on a "leash" needs to watch the Huskies play. That's what it looks like when players are not "leashed."

UW style of play a recipe for disaster. Very few teams can play rat ball and win consistently.

Bogozags
11-26-2015, 07:58 AM
UW missed shots because they were terrible shots completely out of the flow of any sort of offense. So much talent there on the floor...just no talent in the coach's box.

John you are absolutely right...it wasn't that shots were missed but the selection and rhythm was just not there...they seemed as if there was only one speed fast and out of control as if they were in a "Chinese Fire Drill." I don't know if that team can beat us if both teams are firing one all cylinders but it would have been more of a game. I UDub finds a post player or two for next season, they will be awfully tough...but just believe Romar is not a very good bench coach...

I wonder how those UDub freshman we recruited feel this AM after being beaten pretty convincingly? What they saw of themselves last evening they will feel many more times during the season...they will once again miss the "DANCE!"