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View Full Version : Wiljter should enlighten you.



MickMick
11-22-2015, 09:52 AM
Watching Wiltjer's attempt to consistently deliver volume scoring should be an indicator of how very special Adam Morrison was. With each passing season, I am starting to believe Morrison was a truly generational player. I have been waiting for the next Morrison. He doesn't seem to have arrived yet. I suppose Wiltjer has as good of a shot of replicating that season as anyone. Still.......consider that Ravio and Batista competed for shots as much (or more) as anyone on the current roster.

Time will tell.

Waiting for the Burgess kicker in 3...2...1

MTZag03
11-22-2015, 10:26 AM
I see what you mean. It never really looked forced when Morrison was playing. He was also truly the go to guy. At the end of the game you knew he was getting the ball. Wiltjer isn't there yet.

jazzdelmar
11-22-2015, 10:37 AM
Watching Wiltjer's attempt to consistently deliver volume scoring should be an indicator of how very special Adam Morrison was. With each passing season, I am starting to believe Morrison was a truly generational player. I have been waiting for the next Morrison. He doesn't seem to have arrived yet. I suppose Wiltjer has as good of a shot of replicating that season as anyone. Still.......consider that Ravio and Batista competed for shots as much (or more) as anyone on the current roster.

Time will tell.

Waiting for the Burgess kicker in 3...2...1

Imagine how more prolific Ammo would have been with a cooperative point guard who wasn't always looking for his.

krozman
11-22-2015, 10:51 AM
I think the only thing AMMO clearly had over Wiltjer is his innate ability to create his own shots from nothing. AMMO could go nuts by himself and he was amazing at moving without the ball. If you watch his games he was all over the place getting himself open for passing. Wiltjer, I think, is a better paint player than AMMO. He could be just as accurate as AMMO as a shooter (someone with more time could stat check that probably). And both could take advantage of mismatches at their position.

Not sure it's a fair comparison, but if you have to break the tie, AMMO has that clutch buzzer beater against OK ST that puts him ahead! ;p

jazzdelmar
11-22-2015, 11:03 AM
KO was a more versatile player than either.

NumberCruncher
11-22-2015, 11:11 AM
Imagine how more prolific Ammo would have been with a cooperative point guard who wasn't always looking for his.

Raivio scored more points per shot than Morrison. Looking for his own was a good plan.

sittingon50
11-22-2015, 11:39 AM
Imagine how more prolific Ammo would have been with a cooperative point guard who wasn't always looking for his.

The following year Raivio was POY, Jazz. He was legit.

jazzdelmar
11-22-2015, 11:41 AM
The following year Raivio was POY, Jazz. He was legit.

He was a very fine player but the Ammo DR pairing was toxic, IMO.

ProjectMKUltra5
11-22-2015, 11:42 AM
Raivio scored more points per shot than Morrison. Looking for his own was a good plan.

He's also still playing professional basketball. Playing well I might add

229SintoZag
11-22-2015, 12:45 PM
He was a very fine player but the Ammo DR pairing was toxic, IMO.

Yet somehow Ammo led the nation in scoring and was Wooden runner up. must not have been too toxic.....

seacatfan
11-22-2015, 12:48 PM
Yet somehow Ammo led the nation in scoring and was Wooden runner up. must not have been too toxic.....

And only an epic 2nd half collapse kept them from advancing to what would have been the 2nd Elite 8 in program history.

jazzdelmar
11-22-2015, 12:54 PM
And only an epic 2nd half collapse kept them from advancing to what would have been the 2nd Elite 8 in program history.

No, no, no, Ammo overcame pouty DR.

Zagger
11-22-2015, 03:06 PM
What I really liked about Adam was his uncanny ability to control a defender - make them move at a different pace or in a different direction than where he wanted to make his shot. He'd get them to commit then change his own pace and/or direction and the defender couldn't do likewise. Plus, Adam was home grown. Mead School District right on Spokane's N side. I have no idea if he was recruited heavily by other schools - I sorta remember not. It was Adam, Derek and the rest of the team that turned me into a Zag fan. I never really cared much about basketball until then. Go Zags!

ProjectMKUltra5
11-22-2015, 03:10 PM
Raivio had to much sauce to his game, that's why Jazz don't like him

jazzdelmar
11-22-2015, 03:17 PM
Raivio had to much sauce to his game, that's why Jazz don't like him

Nah. We are both sons of Marinara. I liked Nik a whole lot better, tho.

3zagda
11-22-2015, 03:31 PM
Ammo is the most exciting player the Zags have had in the 14 years I have been a fan.
When he got hot, everything went in. Also he seems to be able to rise to the occasion against the best competition, like in the Maui tournament. What a show that was.

TexasZagFan
11-22-2015, 03:39 PM
Ammo is the most exciting player the Zags have had in the 14 years I have been a fan.
When he got hot, everything went in. Also he seems to be able to rise to the occasion against the best competition, like in the Maui tournament. What a show that was.

The game I'll never forget was USF in their gym. What a scene that was, to include threats from the Fire Chief to shut it down due to overcapacity.

ProjectMKUltra5
11-22-2015, 03:53 PM
Ammo is the most exciting player the Zags have had in the 14 years I have been a fan.
When he got hot, everything went in. Also he seems to be able to rise to the occasion against the best competition, like in the Maui tournament. What a show that was.

Michigan St in 05 is my favorite Zag game of all time. It had everything you could want

billyberu
11-22-2015, 05:13 PM
Watching AMMO bank that 3pt shot with seconds left on the clock while sitting right behind the Oklahoma State bench was a memory that I'll take to my grave.

ZagLawGrad
11-22-2015, 05:20 PM
Ammo was tough. And he had some nasty in him on the court.

KW? Nah. But a good player in his own right.

Two totally different players.

Outraged
11-22-2015, 06:15 PM
Adam was in a class by himself. Super elite at the college level. I think he was more double teamed than any other player. The talent in the current team is too diversified for opponents to slack on one to double up on another. He could take over a game. Kyle is a valuable piece of a puzzle but is more a part of team.

jim77
11-22-2015, 06:32 PM
Michigan St in 05 is my favorite Zag game of all time. It had everything you could want

Mine too. I think Ammo dropped 43 points in 3 ot's.

Morrison has the edge in creating his own shot. KW is better near the hoop. Both REALLY good.....I believe Morrison may be a once in a lifetime player.....to do what he did under the conditions he did it (type 1 diabetic) takes a VERY strong will that few will EVER match. It may have been nearly impossible to shut Morrison down cold.....he was simply too creative....29 a game and MVP...not too shabby. Ammo is still my favorite player to watch.....Morrison ROCKS!

I think KW may very well get the highest single game point total in GU history before the season is out.....he's gonna drop 50 on somebody.....when he's on....he's SIZZLING!

maynard g krebs
11-22-2015, 07:21 PM
Imagine how more prolific Ammo would have been with a cooperative point guard who wasn't always looking for his.

Raivio averaged 11 ppg that year, 18 the next. That tells me something.

There's a difference between "always looking for his" and not being happy when he's left open and the ball not coming back to him. Unfair statement, as evidenced by Numbercruncher's comment above.

Loved Ammo, but did you really need to hijack the thread by bashing Raivio? Great Zag imo. Hard to imagine the nation's leading scorer scoring much more with another pg. The data says that in reality he did sacrifice his own scoring that year, based on what he did the next. He's human; understandable that frustrated him a bit at times. Because Ammo was a bit of a black hole at times. Which in his case was a good thing.

And that team was great. A swallowed whistle from the elite 8.

maynard g krebs
11-22-2015, 07:32 PM
Back on topic. I'll never forget the state final v Franklin. Ammo was exhausted from carrying Mead the first 3 days of the tourney, and his shot was off. So he started attacking the basket v a team with 3 or 4 D1 players on just about every possession and wound up scoring 37. Mead lost to Aaron Brooks and Franklin, but Adam singlehandedly kept them in the game.

There's never been a more competitive guy. Anyone who saw that game knew how great he was gonna be.

JPtheBeasta
11-22-2015, 09:26 PM
Other than the Raivio bashing, this has been a very entertaining thread.

bballbeachbum
11-23-2015, 09:12 AM
quick thoughts on this subject
different teams in how they attack, right? lots of Raivio talk here but what I remember is the two headed monster of Adam and JP running that two man game as good as it gets, and out of the flex right? don't know that Adam ever found another willing and able partner like that, or an offense as accommodating to his skills. Maybe that's not accurate but that's what I remember (if anyone can clarify that thank you).
Also, Adam, and Raivio for that matter, were given a lot more leash back then (or they just took it, idk) to create and attack off the bounce looking for their own shot, because they could do it really well. With KP and GBj out there, neither was a creator off the bounce, for their own shot or otherwise really; maybe that will be different with Perkins and McC, idk, but is KW that player? against top defenders? Maybe, we'll see, I think he can, he's pretty slick with his moves and sweet finger roll finishes, but not really from the wing, more from the low block, whereas Adam could do it from anywhere--the perfect flex player imo. and the O seems more structured the last few seasons in efforts to get the ball on the low left block to one of the studs, like KW, to collapse the D, OR running action for KP (or KW) off the ball for open 3s, instead of getting the ball into a creator's hands, even if it was through continuity, and having them attack with the bounce, like Raivio or Morrison; with Pargo they would just give him the ball top of the key and tell him to go
anyway, that's my outsider's view. look forward to reading differing perspectives

bartruff1
11-23-2015, 09:18 AM
I agree JP....I thought Derek made a lot of sacrifices for the team...