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View Full Version : WCC = no good this year



realtydog
11-17-2015, 07:15 AM
It appears that the conference will be down this year--probably big time----the bottom is looking reallllllly bad and the top, sans Gonzaga, won't impress anybody.......Pacific addition will haunt us this year for sure-----Santa Clara wouldn't finish in the top half of the Big West--Portland..down---Loyola...no good---San Diego....going to stink badly -----------we'll probably have 5 teams +200 in the RPI come January 1st....that will hurt

hooter73
11-17-2015, 07:29 AM
BYU lost their opener... The final score makes it look a lot closer than it was. they STUNK for 3/4 of the game

HenneZag
11-17-2015, 07:41 AM
Nothing we can do about it except control what we can. Gonzaga has a huge opportunity with their OOC schedule to make some noise and we will have to be successful in that regard. You know BYU and SMC will play us tough they always do. We will know in a week or so what we have in our team.

TheGonzagaFactor
11-17-2015, 08:04 AM
We knew it was going to be worse than usual (it's always bad) when people have been hyping up a team that went .500 in the WCC and didn't even make the NIT last year. Got blown out in the first round of the CBI and we're supposed to be on alert...


"Pepperdine will be really good!" = "The conference is garbage."

bartruff1
11-17-2015, 08:33 AM
I really like the WCC....their preseason Conference RPI is around 10 0r 11 out of 33 conferences... I wouldn't call that garbage...

Just win and nothing else matters...

Zagceo
11-17-2015, 09:25 AM
It is what it is.

Just wish our conference games gave me the same excitement as our non every year.

Kinda bi-polar every season in that way.

Zagricultural
11-17-2015, 10:27 AM
I hate that it makes us think we are better than we are by dominating them. I also think it weaknesses don't get exposed either, but just win baby!

Kiddwell
11-17-2015, 11:41 AM
BYU's annual match-up w/#16 Utah is gonna be huge for our conference (and BYU's "dance" possibilities). Hope they win that one. Unfortunately it's an away game.

Saint Mary's annually plays #15 Cal and Stanford. Those could be biggies for the conference, too.


:]

realtydog
12-10-2015, 07:22 AM
I really like the WCC....their preseason Conference RPI is around 10 0r 11 out of 33 conferences... I wouldn't call that garbage...

Just win and nothing else matters...

I actually would call this garbage---today's RPI

5 (183) Pepperdine .4921 4-4
6 (275) San Diego .4267 2-6
7 (278) Santa Clara .4248 2-7
8 (289) Pacific .4172 0-6
9 (316) Portland .3925 3-6
10 (325) San Francisco .3819

LongIslandZagFan
12-10-2015, 07:28 AM
I request that we please refrain from using RPI as a guide for just about anything this early in the season. Numbers don't make sense until at least 10-15 games in.

That being said... I am beginning to wonder if Pacific may end up ahead of USF in the end.

SWZag
12-10-2015, 07:52 AM
I request that we please refrain from using RPI as a guide for just about anything this early in the season. Numbers don't make sense until at least 10-15 games in.

That being said... I am beginning to wonder if Pacific may end up ahead of USF in the end.

I think you'll be right about Pacific. While they haven't won any D-1 games, they haven't lost by a whole lot. Their biggest loss was against Arizona (79-61). Their other loses are all under 8 points, and three of those 3 points or less.

raise the zag
12-10-2015, 08:18 AM
St Mary's is 6-0 and their starting backcourt has been outstanding. Collectively averaging 20 apg, & 44% 3pt as a team.

Their SG, Naar, is shooting 65% from 3pt. Averaging 6 assists per game.

Their PG, Joe Rahon is a player. He's averaging 8 assists per game. Was also an All-ACC selection last few years as well.

The Gael guards will make our guards look like puppies p!ssing on a porch.

SMC's front court is average, but an interesting contrast of strengths. I feel they are being overlooked, when they might be more formidable than last 2 seasons.

CDC84
12-10-2015, 08:24 AM
Jerry Palm will tell you that the RPI numbers don't make sense until February. One cycle of conference play needs to kick in.

ZagsGoZags
12-10-2015, 08:28 AM
The word I would choose for SMC's victory over Stanford a few weeks ago is domination. Very lopsided, and SMC wins at least 7 out of ten if they played more, IMO.

Ezag
12-10-2015, 08:47 AM
OCC excites me, post season excites me....WCC...blah... Can't we just throw together a football program so our basketball program can play in the Pac-12? :mecry:

Ezag
12-10-2015, 08:48 AM
The word I would choose for SMC's victory over Stanford a few weeks ago is domination. Very lopsided, and SMC wins at least 7 out of ten if they played more, IMO.

Other than St Mary's and BYU is there really any other WCC game (outside the conf tourney) worth watching? Not really!

Mike83814
12-10-2015, 09:00 AM
KenPom has both St. Mary's and BYU in the 40-75 range. Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but they weren't abysmal. I'd trust KenPom a lot more than RPI right now.

DukeSilver
12-10-2015, 09:19 AM
BYU's annual match-up w/#16 Utah is gonna be huge for our conference (and BYU's "dance" possibilities). Hope they win that one.

So much for this ... Was at the game (rooting hard for a BYU loss - just can't bring myself to root for them in any scenario) and BYU got manhandled in the first half. Got hot enough from 3-pt-range in the second to make it close, but they were pretty solidly outmatched. Poetl can really play.

bartruff1
12-10-2015, 09:22 AM
Other than St Mary's and BYU is there really any other WCC game (outside the conf tourney) worth watching? Not really!

I watch them all and enjoy them all, and there have been some upsets and some very close games.

DukeSilver
12-10-2015, 09:22 AM
KenPom has both St. Mary's and BYU in the 40-75 range. Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but they weren't abysmal. I'd trust KenPom a lot more than RPI right now.

KenPom is actually pretty unreliable at this point in the season ... Takes a solid sample size before their algorithm works the way it's meant to. Until recently, they wouldn't even post rankings until about 15 games into the season.

hooter73
12-10-2015, 11:06 AM
Other than St Mary's and BYU is there really any other WCC game (outside the conf tourney) worth watching? Not really!

Careful what you ask for, that's usually when we get rolled by a Portland or this time, a pepperdine.

maynard g krebs
12-10-2015, 11:19 AM
KenPom has both St. Mary's and BYU in the 40-75 range. Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but they weren't abysmal. I'd trust KenPom a lot more than RPI right now.

71/60 respectively. SMC rising rapidly.

GUfan34
12-10-2015, 11:20 AM
Uhh.. yeah

Why were some picking Pepperdine to be relevant this year? Is it a trendy sleeper pick? Because they blow. Like always.

maynard g krebs
12-10-2015, 11:22 AM
I actually would call this garbage---today's RPI

5 (183) Pepperdine .4921 4-4
6 (275) San Diego .4267 2-6
7 (278) Santa Clara .4248 2-7
8 (289) Pacific .4172 0-6
9 (316) Portland .3925 3-6
10 (325) San Francisco .3819

Kenpom:

4 Pep 132
5 Ptld 216
6 Pac 217
7 USF 224
8 LMU 241
9 SC 251
10 USD 266

NumberCruncher
12-10-2015, 11:28 AM
KenPom is actually pretty unreliable at this point in the season ... Takes a solid sample size before their algorithm works the way it's meant to. Until recently, they wouldn't even post rankings until about 15 games into the season.

I've found a 90% correlation between his pre-season rankings and his final rankings. That's actually pretty reliable.

The Zags have been especially predictable. Over the last 5 seasons, the Zags have finished no worse than 11 spots from pre-season with an average variance of only 5.8 ranking positions.

seacatfan
12-10-2015, 11:43 AM
Uhh.. yeah

Why were some picking Pepperdine to be relevant this year? Is it a trendy sleeper pick? Because they blow. Like always.

I think some posters were basing their optimism for Pepperdine on the two close games against GU last year. Conveniently ignoring that they did nothing in OOC, and completely fell on their face in one of the also ran post season tournaments against a mediocre at best Seattle U. team. Pep has been doing their best to get everybody off of their bandwagon thus far in the season.

Reborn
12-10-2015, 11:57 AM
I know one person who will be taking the WCC seriously. mark few
And me.

Conference games are never easy, and especially when we play in their gyms.

SWZag
12-10-2015, 12:05 PM
I know one person who will be taking the WCC seriously. mark few
And me.

Conference games are never easy, and especially when we play in their gyms.

+1. Add me to Mark Few and yourself. I'm guessing Tommy might take the games somewhat seriously too... :D

kyle dixon
12-10-2015, 12:09 PM
SMC has a big game on Saturday at CAL. Only road trip in the preseason. Randy sure knows how to host games!

vandalzag
12-10-2015, 01:58 PM
SMC has a big game on Saturday at CAL. Only road trip in the preseason. Randy sure knows how to host games!

He really dials up the pre-season schedule. You would think after multiple misses of the NCAA with good clubs he would have learned his lesson and started playing a better schedule.

JPtheBeasta
12-10-2015, 03:24 PM
Other than St Mary's and BYU is there really any other WCC game (outside the conf tourney) worth watching? Not really!

I look forward to every bounce of every GU game. We've had plenty of good WCC games.

Nevada Don
12-10-2015, 05:47 PM
He really dials up the pre-season schedule. You would think after multiple misses of the NCAA with good clubs he would have learned his lesson and started playing a better schedule.

Why is it important to you to rag on the Gaels? Their schedule is not terrible and maybe you forget that the Gaels will have 2 or 3 games with a Top 20 team (GU), hopefully. And BYU will be up there too.

Yes, RB had had a lot of "NCAA misses" but he's also had a lot of "NCAA makes". SMC has been fighting to get Cal and Stanford on their schedule for umpteen years and finally it worked because the PAC 12 prima donna's thought they had a patsy this year with the Gaels being down (NOT).

Why do you care so much about the Gaels RPI? Currently, who's pulling who down in the RPI category? (Sorry, very cheap shot honorable posters but he got me a little mad, "just a little bit".)

I think this years Gael team is better than last years team. Is GU better this year? You ate our lunch last year. I'm thinking things may get closer this year. I think it would behoove (whatever that means) many of you to forget about getting a 3 seed or everyone else's RPI and just get to the Dance and start running off the wins where merit counts and the better teams deserve to advance. Sound familiar? That's what the ZAGS did last year and that's what made them their reputation. There might be only one #1 team at the end of the day but there certainly is honor and accomplishment in trying to get there. I hope Gonzaga gets to be #1 one of these years but until that happens I will still RESPECT the hell out of you.

Let's both take a step forward with these next games. You handle the team from Southern California UC--LA and we'll do our best to take down the one from Northern California UC--Beserkly.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-10-2015, 05:59 PM
Why is it important to you to rag on the Gaels? Their schedule is not terrible and maybe you forget that the Gaels will have 2 or 3 games with a Top 20 team (GU), hopefully. And BYU will be up there too.

Yes, RB had had a lot of "NCAA misses" but he's also had a lot of "NCAA makes". SMC has been fighting to get Cal and Stanford on their schedule for umpteen years and finally it worked because the PAC 12 prima donna's thought they had a patsy this year with the Gaels being down (NOT).

Why do you care so much about the Gaels RPI? Currently, who's pulling who down in the RPI category? (Sorry, very cheap shot honorable posters but he got me a little mad, "just a little bit".)

I think this years Gael team is better than last years team. Is GU better this year? You ate our lunch last year. I'm thinking things may get closer this year. I think it would behoove (whatever that means) many of you to forget about getting a 3 seed or everyone else's RPI and just get to the Dance and start running off the wins where merit counts and the better teams deserve to advance. Sound familiar? That's what the ZAGS did last year and that's what made them their reputation. There might be only one #1 team at the end of the day but there certainly is honor and accomplishment in trying to get there. I hope Gonzaga gets to be #1 one of these years but until that happens I will still RESPECT the hell out of you.

Let's both take a step forward with these next games. You handle the team from Southern California UC--LA and we'll do our best to take down the one from Northern California UC--Beserkly.

I honestly didn't expect the Gaels to reload as quickly as they did, but this new backcourt looks really good. This rivalry could get really interesting after a couple of off years for the Gaels. It should be fun.

ZagaZags
12-10-2015, 09:53 PM
Gonzaga will rack up the wins in the WCC. That is a huge reason Few wins 80% of his games.

vandalzag
12-11-2015, 05:51 AM
Why is it important to you to rag on the Gaels? Their schedule is not terrible and maybe you forget that the Gaels will have 2 or 3 games with a Top 20 team (GU), hopefully. And BYU will be up there too.

Yes, RB had had a lot of "NCAA misses" but he's also had a lot of "NCAA makes". SMC has been fighting to get Cal and Stanford on their schedule for umpteen years and finally it worked because the PAC 12 prima donna's thought they had a patsy this year with the Gaels being down (NOT).

Why do you care so much about the Gaels RPI? Currently, who's pulling who down in the RPI category? (Sorry, very cheap shot honorable posters but he got me a little mad, "just a little bit".)

I think this years Gael team is better than last years team. Is GU better this year? You ate our lunch last year. I'm thinking things may get closer this year. I think it would behoove (whatever that means) many of you to forget about getting a 3 seed or everyone else's RPI and just get to the Dance and start running off the wins where merit counts and the better teams deserve to advance. Sound familiar? That's what the ZAGS did last year and that's what made them their reputation. There might be only one #1 team at the end of the day but there certainly is honor and accomplishment in trying to get there. I hope Gonzaga gets to be #1 one of these years but until that happens I will still RESPECT the hell out of you.

Let's both take a step forward with these next games. You handle the team from Southern California UC--LA and we'll do our best to take down the one from Northern California UC--Beserkly.

Because the Gaels were on the verge elevating themselves and in turn the rest of the league. Instead they continued to play a garbage non-conference schedule (as the rest of the league does) and when the Gaels were a bubble team they ended up in the NIT. The only way this league will take a step in the right direction is if schools invest in their program and schedule aggressively, rather than just hoping to play the one ranked team in the conference. The result would be multiple teams that help each other rather than drag the one team that is ranked down even when it wins games. I think Bennett is a good enough coach that he should have teams in the NCAA every year, rather than 5 times in 15.

vandalzag
12-11-2015, 06:05 AM
Gonzaga will rack up the wins in the WCC. That is a huge reason Few wins 80% of his games.

Great observation. Since the conference is the huge reason what are the other less important reasons? Since it is so easy to win in the WCC why have more coaches not won 80% of their games? Bennett who is considered a good coach checks in at 310-145, .681. Why has this winning percentage not been achieved in any of the 20 or so conferences that are historically weaker than the WCC?
No wonder Few has never been pursued by larger schools for open jobs, they all must share you same insight. We need to get rid of him.

DixieZag
12-11-2015, 06:11 AM
Why is it important to you to rag on the Gaels? Their schedule is not terrible and maybe you forget that the Gaels will have 2 or 3 games with a Top 20 team (GU), hopefully. And BYU will be up there too.

Yes, RB had had a lot of "NCAA misses" but he's also had a lot of "NCAA makes". SMC has been fighting to get Cal and Stanford on their schedule for umpteen years and finally it worked because the PAC 12 prima donna's thought they had a patsy this year with the Gaels being down (NOT).

Why do you care so much about the Gaels RPI? Currently, who's pulling who down in the RPI category? (Sorry, very cheap shot honorable posters but he got me a little mad, "just a little bit".)

I think this years Gael team is better than last years team. Is GU better this year? You ate our lunch last year. I'm thinking things may get closer this year. I think it would behoove (whatever that means) many of you to forget about getting a 3 seed or everyone else's RPI and just get to the Dance and start running off the wins where merit counts and the better teams deserve to advance. Sound familiar? That's what the ZAGS did last year and that's what made them their reputation. There might be only one #1 team at the end of the day but there certainly is honor and accomplishment in trying to get there. I hope Gonzaga gets to be #1 one of these years but until that happens I will still RESPECT the hell out of you.

Let's both take a step forward with these next games. You handle the team from Southern California UC--LA and we'll do our best to take down the one from Northern California UC--Beserkly.

I don't know anyone here who doesn't want SMC to make that next step, become a permanent top 25 "ish" team - that is your next step and that is where you were so close for so many years.

Some of us want what is best for SMC b/c we sort of like the similar school, some of us want the conference to do better, but everyone's goal is to get SMC and BYU into that top 50 every single year, no thought about it at all. In some ways that should be a compliment, I think people have largely given up on the rest of the conference

BYU, with their money, facilities, size, - they have absolutely no excuse other than maybe not liking getting beat every year to people with small gyms. SMC? You guys? You've been a tough nut. The sanctions didn't help, don't want to go down that road. It seemed Randy missed huge opportunities to get big time wins when he had Delly and Mickey (but never did). We anticipate losing to you guys at least every other year, we get clipped in Moraga or something. So, that loss goes down a whole lot easier when you have a bunch of wins against Pac schools (or even Mr West) rather than tiny ...... Of course, if we don't beat UCLA, we're going to be 2-2 in the Pac ourselves.

LongIslandZagFan
12-11-2015, 06:19 AM
Why is it important to you to rag on the Gaels? Their schedule is not terrible and maybe you forget that the Gaels will have 2 or 3 games with a Top 20 team (GU), hopefully. And BYU will be up there too.

Yes, RB had had a lot of "NCAA misses" but he's also had a lot of "NCAA makes". SMC has been fighting to get Cal and Stanford on their schedule for umpteen years and finally it worked because the PAC 12 prima donna's thought they had a patsy this year with the Gaels being down (NOT).

Why do you care so much about the Gaels RPI? Currently, who's pulling who down in the RPI category? (Sorry, very cheap shot honorable posters but he got me a little mad, "just a little bit".)

I think this years Gael team is better than last years team. Is GU better this year? You ate our lunch last year. I'm thinking things may get closer this year. I think it would behoove (whatever that means) many of you to forget about getting a 3 seed or everyone else's RPI and just get to the Dance and start running off the wins where merit counts and the better teams deserve to advance. Sound familiar? That's what the ZAGS did last year and that's what made them their reputation. There might be only one #1 team at the end of the day but there certainly is honor and accomplishment in trying to get there. I hope Gonzaga gets to be #1 one of these years but until that happens I will still RESPECT the hell out of you.

Let's both take a step forward with these next games. You handle the team from Southern California UC--LA and we'll do our best to take down the one from Northern California UC--Beserkly.

Let's be honest... with the quality of the teams that Randy has had... he should have been out there trying to play anyone, anywhere, anytime. It isn't ragging... it is called frustration. If you can't get Cal, go East. There are plenty of majors and high mid majors that would take a game... why focus on Stanford and Cal. He doesn't challenge the team the way we should. We complain because we DO respect SMC and get frustrated with the weak, bordering on old school Syracuse scheduling where they barely leave Moraga let alone the state. You, mjgogaels, and others should be pushing for a stronger schedule. Pushing to get into tourneys. It just seems Randy either doesn't have the faith he should have, or doesn't care to put up the challenge to his team. That scheduling has bit you guys a couple of times where you have been on the outside looking in when WE knew you deserved to be in the dance.

Nevada Don
12-11-2015, 09:25 AM
Thanks guys for your feedback.

I wish and have been a strong proponent of doing one and done away games against Top 20 programs but it hasn't happened. I will say that the 2 years of NCAA sanctions hurt because we were prohibited from holiday tournament participation which always had the match up potential for playing high profile teams.

If Randy is ever going to get aggressive with his scheduling, we might see it over the next few years because we think he has a ton of young talent (with more coming) that could make for a very special team.