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raise the zag
11-14-2015, 08:59 AM
Most disturbing trend I noticed immediately:

only 3 players were able to pass to our BIGS underneath:

-- Kyle Dranginis

-- Kyle Wiltjer

-- Karnowski

Outside of one pick n' roll of Perkins->Karno, our guards only passed to each other, & proved incapable of finding our guys in the low block.

Reading the situation.

For instance, Sabonis creates amazing position/angles and is open on damn near every possession -- only Dranginis and Wiltjer noticed it, & subsequently took advantage.

Our other guards, especially McClellan & Melson, seemed clueless on how to find an open man. Both can score, sure, yet neither has shown the ability to find our bigs underneath. Not only isolation plays, rather passing into the paint and getting the bigs the ball around the hoop.

Perks had attempts, yet its really the high-low with Wiltjer or Dranginis reading defenses to utilize our greatest strength. Our bigs.

We must find a way to coach these guards in finding Sabonis, Wiltjer, Karnowski. Outside of them finding each other, its not happening. Same occurrence in the exhibition game, and from what I've heard, vs Baylor as well.

A disturbing trend which has nothing to do with slippery courts.

Mr Vulture
11-14-2015, 09:13 AM
I think there is way too much analysis being done based on three halves of basketball. We all know this team will be better come January than it is now. Give them a few games before worrying so much guys. ;)

ProjectMKUltra5
11-14-2015, 09:15 AM
+1

This is actually my only real problem with the guards as of now. I think as the season goes on they'll find their roles and stop playing so tentatively. They have to start throwing the ball down to the block and let the offense run through the bigs. So many chances are created by that action.

ZagsGoZags
11-14-2015, 09:31 AM
Most disturbing trend I noticed immediately:

only 3 players were able to pass to our BIGS underneath:

-- Kyle Dranginis

-- Kyle Wiltjer

-- Karnowski

Outside of one pick n' roll of Perkins->Karno, our guards only passed to each other, & proved incapable of finding our guys in the low block.

Reading the situation.

For instance, Sabonis creates amazing position/angles and is open on damn near every possession -- only Dranginis and Wiltjer noticed it, & subsequently took advantage.

Our other guards, especially McClellan & Melson, seemed clueless on how to find an open man. Both can score, sure, yet neither has shown the ability to find our bigs underneath. Not only isolation plays, rather passing into the paint and getting the bigs the ball around the hoop.

Perks had attempts, yet its really the high-low with Wiltjer or Dranginis reading defenses to utilize our greatest strength. Our bigs.

We must find a way to coach these guards in finding Sabonis, Wiltjer, Karnowski. Outside of them finding each other, its not happening. Same occurrence in the exhibition game, and from what I've heard, vs Baylor as well.

A disturbing trend which has nothing to do with slippery courts.

I totally agree with this. I am not worried about Josh P. finding our bigs more and more, he fed them a lot before Mr. Kung Fu kicked him in the face last year,
but Kyle D. looks for those feeds way more than Melson (not at all) Alberts and Eric

I don't mind analyzing based on what we have seen so far, that's our reality right now,
better to analyze as we go, than wait until December before we analyze, IMHO

zag buddy
11-14-2015, 09:38 AM
I agree with rtz. It seems like they move the ball around the perimeter at 90 mph but don't take the time to see how the bigs have positioned themselves. As the ball moves the bigs also move but the guards don't look and continue to move the ball.

VinnyZag
11-14-2015, 09:46 AM
I think there is way too much analysis being done based on three halves of basketball. We all know this team will be better come January than it is now. Give them a few games before worrying so much guys. ;)

Really, only one half, since they were just running vanilla offense in the exhibition so as to not give anything away to their real opponents. We know nothing at this point.

23zagmd
11-14-2015, 10:16 AM
I've said it all off-season and I'll continue to say it.....3PT SHOOTING and our lack of a really athletic 3 to get on the break, finish and defend. I love the job they have done with recruiting bigs and smalls but man do we need a 6'7" transition difference maker

Zagger
11-14-2015, 11:12 AM
Biggest concern so far .... a dang wet court in a BIG game. I'm not distraught with the wet court situation but it sure buggered up what could have been a VERY fine evening of Zag basketball. I think the best was made of the situation by the teams, coaches, etc. - just too bad - on to next game without the exposure a dry game could have given both teams.
Second biggest concern .... just overall fan expectations for the Zags (including my own). How realistic are we being? We lost some great Seniors. I'm beginning to think of this season as more of a rebuilding season. Yeah, small sample size so far but the comfy level of the players on the floor looks a bit off - I feel it is reflected in their shooting - not so hot. I shouldn't use any of last night's wet floor stats to develop opinions but .... just human I guess. I do have LOTS of confidence in both the players and in Few. It's going to be fun watching this season's group mature into a well oiled machine. It'll just take some time and fan patience. I think that will be easier for the team than for us :)

Tmac5360
11-14-2015, 11:17 AM
My biggest concern is that coach Few doesn't realize that 1/2 of a game is going to determine everything!! The guards are no good at passing, the big lineup is a total bust and the 3 spot is just a complete void. He doesn't get that it's a complete waist of time to try new lineups. 20 minutes is enough to learn everything we need to know. Poor coach just doesn't get it. It could have been a great season but after that half its over. I can't believe coach hasn't moved on. He just doesn't get it.

Mantua
11-14-2015, 11:39 AM
Really, only one half, since they were just running vanilla offense in the exhibition so as to not give anything away to their real opponents. We know nothing at this point.

The Zags played more conservatively than the Panthers. The floor condition might have gotten into their heads with the recent memory of Sabonis falling and the clinging memory of the karate kick. Injuries could cost this team plenty considering the lack of depth. Think about how much they must have been distracted by the lack of traction. I get it if they weren't making great decisions.

john montana
11-14-2015, 11:50 AM
We know nothing yet. The three bigs haven't played together enough to see and our guards haven't played enough to get comfortable. Might be a rocky first month as they define rolls and find a rhythm and rotation, but the talent is there.

My only concern, our allergy to running a zone. This lineup to me just screams for a zone.

We just need court time. And we might take a few lumps learning how to play together.

Zagricultural
11-14-2015, 12:56 PM
My biggest concern by far is that I now have to wait until Wednesday to see an actual complete game! Oh the agony! =)

bartruff1
11-14-2015, 01:05 PM
Some of this stuff is hilarious... I think Few knows what he is doing and that is why he gets the big bucks...

Birddog
11-14-2015, 01:17 PM
Some of this stuff is hilarious... I think Few knows what he is doing and that is why he gets the big bucks...
The level of expertise displayed on this board after just 20 mins of BB is way beyond my wildest expectations.

Zagceo
11-14-2015, 01:22 PM
Could be holiday inn express syndrome. ;-D


http://youtu.be/_pjbKV8tQLQ

JPtheBeasta
11-14-2015, 01:46 PM
I think we need to play Will Foster more.

bartruff1
11-14-2015, 01:48 PM
Well played..

JPtheBeasta
11-14-2015, 01:56 PM
Well played..

Thanks, Bart :]

basketballzag
11-14-2015, 03:33 PM
The level of expertise displayed on this board after just 20 mins of BB is way beyond my wildest expectations.


I agree and I have to get this off my chest but the Half-time adjustments were completely missing from last night game. This is something the Coaches are going to have to work on this for the next game. Very disappointed that not one Gonzaga player listened to Coach Few when they went back on the court for the 2nd half because if they had we would have seen it on the court.

gonzagabasketball
11-14-2015, 06:09 PM
The level of expertise displayed on this board after just 20 mins of BB is way beyond my wildest expectations.

Overall, I recognize your opinion on this board, and respect it over all. But its these snarky responses that drive me crazy. Listen, I will not argue how well this crowd believes Few tastes, thats subjective.

The criticisms are clearly, very ####ing clearly, aimed at the 20 min that occurred. We, most of us, are not at practice. We have game tape to dissect and discuss, nothing else. In games, ones that have occured this very young season of ours, the 3 big line up is an alarming, unmitigated disaster. Everyone; Few, Lloyd, fans, and analysts alike, were concerned about the potential pitfalls and shortcomings of D. What few, if any, figured would happen was the complete, and liable, ineffective offense that has resulted. That is the discussion. Simply the results. Lets discuss the results. Not your favorite flavor of fandom, but the results of the competition that as occurred.

A very small sample size. Certainly nothing to panic over. But certainly something we can, thus far anyway, draw conclusions from.

GO, Gonzaga. G-O...so on and so forth....

zag buddy
11-14-2015, 07:25 PM
my biggest concern - We have skilled players at every position, there is no doubt there. The question is how do you translate that into points. I guess this is why the coaches get the big bucks. I guess this year will basically be a referendum on coaching - scares me.

GrizZAG
11-14-2015, 07:26 PM
Is it possible that knowing how much emphasis there has been on taking care of the ball that Perks, Melson and EMAC are being too tentative and afraid to make a bad pass? I know this sounds too simple but wow, the passing is lacking to the bigs.

DixieZag
11-14-2015, 07:50 PM
my biggest concern - We have skilled players at every position, there is no doubt there. The question is how do you translate that into points. I guess this is why the coaches get the big bucks. I guess this year will basically be a referendum on coaching - scares me.

? They've built the machine by developing players. Making it translate into points. (Perhaps defensively is where the development needs to come).

They are in an awkward position where the best 3 players are such that it is hard to have them on the court all at once, and a gaggle of guys new to the system.

For 4 years we've been used to Gary and Kevin being coaches on the floor, allowing the team to open the season functioning like a smoothly running machine. We're spoiled, that type of combo of maturity, talent and commitment is pretty rare. Still, deep into March, they had a hard time dealing with size and speed of guys, perhaps a lower ceiling.

The guards/wings are new, and not well oiled machines (especially on an ice rink floor) and are trying to make the 3 big experiment run. But hopefully, we'll live up to the development that has always been our bedrock and we have a team in March with a higher ceiling.

GeorgiaZagFan
11-14-2015, 08:29 PM
Most disturbing trend I noticed immediately:

only 3 players were able to pass to our BIGS underneath:

-- Kyle Dranginis

-- Kyle Wiltjer

-- Karnowski

Outside of one pick n' roll of Perkins->Karno, our guards only passed to each other, & proved incapable of finding our guys in the low block.

Reading the situation.

For instance, Sabonis creates amazing position/angles and is open on damn near every possession -- only Dranginis and Wiltjer noticed it, & subsequently took advantage.

Our other guards, especially McClellan & Melson, seemed clueless on how to find an open man. Both can score, sure, yet neither has shown the ability to find our bigs underneath. Not only isolation plays, rather passing into the paint and getting the bigs the ball around the hoop.

Perks had attempts, yet its really the high-low with Wiltjer or Dranginis reading defenses to utilize our greatest strength. Our bigs.

We must find a way to coach these guards in finding Sabonis, Wiltjer, Karnowski. Outside of them finding each other, its not happening. Same occurrence in the exhibition game, and from what I've heard, vs Baylor as well.

A disturbing trend which has nothing to do with slippery courts.

...to passing effectively to the bigs is to NOT telegraph the pass...make it quick and accurate but no so obvious that the defense can adjust. Some of the passes to the bigs might as well came with a "hey, I'm passing it down low" attached to it

Baseline
11-14-2015, 08:35 PM
I saw frustration on Subonis and worry that not getting the ball when he is pen will greatly affect his game if it continues. sabonis was wide open several times oon his roll to the basket and no feed. The KW, KD and Sabonis combination works the best in my opinion from the limited viewing. I would start Sabonis at center and KD and KW as the 3 and 4. I know that's not going to go down well, but I'm a big arno fan, just sayiong it from what little I have seen.
I think this team will look way different in a month.

gonzagafan62
11-14-2015, 08:45 PM
My biggest concern? Nothing. We haven't even played yet

Reborn
11-14-2015, 08:56 PM
this is the funniest GUBoard Thread and posts that I ever seen. a lot of people must not have much to worry about in their lives and just have to create something here.....hilarious. what is there to worry about when you don't have anything to worry about. Like some have said. We have not even played yet. Gonzaga has really good guards. Let's give them time. Fans of this board were hyping McCl, Perkins and Dranginis all summer. Why should we stop when there is really nothing to really judge them by.

DixieZag
11-15-2015, 07:09 AM
this is the funniest GUBoard Thread and posts that I ever seen. a lot of people must not have much to worry about in their lives and just have to create something here.....hilarious. what is there to worry about when you don't have anything to worry about. Like some have said. We have not even played yet. Gonzaga has really good guards. Let's give them time. Fans of this board were hyping McCl, Perkins and Dranginis all summer. Why should we stop when there is really nothing to really judge them by.

Disagree.

It is just fans being fans discussing their team and it is just a fun discussion that can be had in the middle of the summer as much as after an exhibition and 20 minutes. It is also just as fine when people discus how they will do based upon what they've seen - whether legitimate concerns that go deep, or when some will point out that basing some conclusions on such a small sample size is silly. That's what fans do, it doesn't have any meaning about people's lives.

Reborn
11-15-2015, 07:54 AM
I disagree with you totally, DixieZag. Why would anyone get so concerned this early in the year. Fans on this board have been so positive and suddenly so negative. If you don't see the negativity in some of these posts than you have your blinders on. Oh! I totally agree with you that people need the freedom to speak their minds. And if they see concern, than why not express it. It's okay. But, it's even better when someone can see the folly in what their concern is. This is the earliest part of the preseason. It is the time to experiment and try different things. It is the time to let our new players play and learn. There will always be many mistakes, and the early non-season games is the time to iron all this out. Mark Few is a great coach and has a great staff. I know that he knows what he's doing. This is a time for patience, not criticism.

willandi
11-15-2015, 08:13 AM
My biggest concern is that in a fit of anger, after reading how so many fans have turned, Mark Few and staff will leave, and GU, because he is a nice guy, will hire Romar (who is desperate for a winning team), and Few, seeing the opening, will take the UW job.

Not gonna happen, but that's MY biggest concern.

basketballzag
11-15-2015, 08:35 AM
My biggest concern is that in a fit of anger, after reading how so many fans have turned, Mark Few and staff will leave, and GU, because he is a nice guy, will hire Romar (who is desperate for a winning team), and Few, seeing the opening, will take the UW job.

Not gonna happen, but that's MY biggest concern.

I'm still in shock that no one agrees with me that the half-time adjustments were terrible. The players didn't execute on any of the plays the coaches drew up in the 2nd half. This is very worrisome for me.

willandi
11-15-2015, 08:52 AM
I'm still in shock that no one agrees with me that the half-time adjustments were terrible. The players didn't execute on any of the plays the coaches drew up in the 2nd half. This is very worrisome for me.

Poorest 2nd half execution ever!

23zagmd
11-15-2015, 09:00 AM
wow, this is either the best tongue in cheek post, EVER. Or the level of idiocy with this post.....is not even worthy of discussion.


My biggest concern is that coach Few doesn't realize that 1/2 of a game is going to determine everything!! The guards are no good at passing, the big lineup is a total bust and the 3 spot is just a complete void. He doesn't get that it's a complete waist of time to try new lineups. 20 minutes is enough to learn everything we need to know. Poor coach just doesn't get it. It could have been a great season but after that half its over. I can't believe coach hasn't moved on. He just doesn't get it.

GrizZAG
11-15-2015, 09:08 AM
Wow, lots of condescending "experts" on this board. When the shots from downtown start dropping from someone other than KW everyone will breathe much easier. Until that happens and some better feeds to the inside materialize IMO the angst is justified. JMO Yeah it is early, but we are headed into the fire soon.

zag buddy
11-15-2015, 09:11 AM
I was glad to see my prediction was right on, I said 100 to 84 which means we only had to score about 66 points in the second half for me to be correct.If they don't score 66 points my concern is the team is not paying enough attention to my predictions. Focus guys, focus.

ProjectMKUltra5
11-15-2015, 09:25 AM
The superfans that try to police discussion are out in full force. Nobody is talking doom and gloom, we're just looking at how the new pieces have looked in the 60 minutes of basketball so far. You don't like it? Go wave your pom poms somewhere else

willandi
11-15-2015, 09:31 AM
The superfans that try to police discussion are out in full force. Nobody is talking doom and gloom, we're just looking at how the new pieces have looked in the 60 minutes of basketball so far. You don't like it? Go wave your pom poms somewhere else

Sorry, but I disagree with you. Many of the things being said are so ridiculous and off the wall that NOT saying anything causes a serious brain shutdown...or maybe thats why they made the comments. And it is an open discussion board. It isn't the superfans that need to go away, it is the fans that somehow believe they are smarter than everyone else, and smarter than Mark Few in particular. If the tongue in cheek comments, and replies bother you, please, don't let us detain you.

ProjectMKUltra5
11-15-2015, 09:38 AM
Sorry, but I disagree with you. Many of the things being said are so ridiculous and off the wall that NOT saying anything causes a serious brain shutdown...or maybe thats why they made the comments. And it is an open discussion board. It isn't the superfans that need to go away, it is the fans that somehow believe they are smarter than everyone else, and smarter than Mark Few in particular. If the tongue in cheek comments, and replies bother you, please, don't let us detain you.

Lol who said they were smarter then Mark Few?

Edit: I'd appreciate if you could point out these ridiculous or off the wall comments, as well.

spike_jr
11-15-2015, 09:39 AM
My concern is that we do not have the luxury to "experiment" in the OOC. The reality of our schedule and our conference is that we have to get it right and get it right early and often in OOC. The cost of being wrong is being set to Raleigh as a 9 seed in the first weekend. We could run the the table in the WCC, but if we lose to UW, AZ, UCLA, WSU and other Power conference teams while trying to figure out what works, then it may not matter what works come March.

The sample size is admittedly small, but I have seen nothing that leads me to believe the Big 3 lineup will work well against any opposing lineup. Against smaller lineups, we will have to have DS or KW chasing small guards all over the court (bad idea) and against elite teams/bigger lineups, KW or DS will have to guard a 6'-7" superior athlete. And these are just the defensive liabilities. Right now, the offense seems stagnant with all 3 of them in the game and their individual strengths are mitigated/sacrificed for the common good. Few teams will be able to match up with whichever 2 of the 3 we have in the game so why not make the opposition match up against 40 minutes worth of a constantly rested and fresh front line?

zag buddy
11-15-2015, 10:29 AM
Where did all the laughter go on this board. I used to get some chuckles reading the posts but now everybodys a self appointed expert coach who will defend their point of view to the death. There is no law that says the higher we are ranked the more serious we need to be. This is your free time, have some fun along the way.

willandi
11-15-2015, 10:32 AM
Lol who said they were smarter then Mark Few?

Edit: I'd appreciate if you could point out these ridiculous or off the wall comments, as well.

Here's one: Quote Originally Posted by Tmac5360 View Post
My biggest concern is that coach Few doesn't realize that 1/2 of a game is going to determine everything!! The guards are no good at passing, the big lineup is a total bust and the 3 spot is just a complete void. He doesn't get that it's a complete waist of time to try new lineups. 20 minutes is enough to learn everything we need to know. Poor coach just doesn't get it. It could have been a great season but after that half its over. I can't believe coach hasn't moved on. He just doesn't get it."

Let me respond with a question. Who has the final say in the starting line-ups, who gets playing time, the rotation etc? The answer is Mark Few. All of those people that insist on continually pointing out that this won't work and that won't work and this player needs to be starting are implying that they know more than the person that sets lineups etc. They surely have a right to their opinion, I would never deny that...just as I have a right to my opinion.
I do believe, however, that Coach Few has more experience than I do, has more contact with the team than I do, watches them practice more than I do and understands the details of basketball more than I do. Second guessing is everyones right, but the force with which some statements have been made implies, at least to me, that the person somehow believes they know more than Coach Few.
It may be as simple as a product of age. I am older and was brought to believe that the words written and spoken meant more than they seem to do today. If so, just write this off to an old fart expressing his opinion.

thespywhozaggedme
11-15-2015, 10:54 AM
My biggest concern after half of a cancelled game is absurdly overeactionary fans.

ZagLawGrad
11-15-2015, 11:00 AM
Some obsessive, compulsive posters on here. All year round.

TexasZagFan
11-15-2015, 11:00 AM
My biggest concern after half of a cancelled game is absurdly overeactionary fans.

You obviously do not frequent the OCC! :lmao:

TexasZagFan
11-15-2015, 11:04 AM
Some obsessive, compulsive posters on here. All year round.

Who don't appreciate how good we have it. Can't we enjoy the program for what it is, these great young men that represent our alma mater?

ZagLawGrad
11-15-2015, 11:17 AM
Who don't appreciate how good we have it. Can't we enjoy the program for what it is, these great young men that represent our alma mater?

:cheers: :agreed:

Outraged
11-15-2015, 11:44 AM
I want to see what happens to these comments when we actually have content to comment on. All that's happened so far is a secret scrimmage an Eosc exhibition game and half of a cancelled game. The shots will begin to fall which will make everything look brilliant.

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-15-2015, 12:03 PM
Here's one: Quote Originally Posted by Tmac5360 View Post
My biggest concern is that coach Few doesn't realize that 1/2 of a game is going to determine everything!! The guards are no good at passing, the big lineup is a total bust and the 3 spot is just a complete void. He doesn't get that it's a complete waist of time to try new lineups. 20 minutes is enough to learn everything we need to know. Poor coach just doesn't get it. It could have been a great season but after that half its over. I can't believe coach hasn't moved on. He just doesn't get it."

Let me respond with a question. Who has the final say in the starting line-ups, who gets playing time, the rotation etc? The answer is Mark Few. All of those people that insist on continually pointing out that this won't work and that won't work and this player needs to be starting are implying that they know more than the person that sets lineups etc. They surely have a right to their opinion, I would never deny that...just as I have a right to my opinion.
I do believe, however, that Coach Few has more experience than I do, has more contact with the team than I do, watches them practice more than I do and understands the details of basketball more than I do. Second guessing is everyones right, but the force with which some statements have been made implies, at least to me, that the person somehow believes they know more than Coach Few.
It may be as simple as a product of age. I am older and was brought to believe that the words written and spoken meant more than they seem to do today. If so, just write this off to an old fart expressing his opinion.

In Few We Trust

Hoopaholic
11-15-2015, 12:42 PM
I want to see what happens to these comments when we actually have content to comment on. All that's happened so far is a secret scrimmage an Eosc exhibition game and half of a cancelled game. The shots will begin to fall which will make everything look brilliant.

And the secret scrimmage is a training event not a competitive event with best lineups etc

My concern is we have not played a full real game yet

sage
11-15-2015, 12:51 PM
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd47/jimc99328/jokes/hornetsnest_zpsvjn4zfm8.gif