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View Full Version : Gonzaga and the concept of redshirts



GoZags
11-03-2015, 09:17 AM
Saw this on Virginia's board and thought it was interesting. I know how the Zags feel about redshirting (in particular with the '16 class coming in). It's interesting to see how few "players" ... i.e. schools there are in this arena.

All major teams with more than one voluntary redshirt on current roster:

Creighton (5 voluntary redshirts, 9 total redshirts on roster)
Gonzaga (3 voluntary redshirts, 8 total redshirts on roster)
Virginia (3 voluntary redshirts, 7 total redshirts on roster)
Pitt (3 voluntary redshirts, 5 total redshirts on roster)
St. Mary's (3 voluntary redshirts, 4 total redshirts on roster)
Wisconsin (3 voluntary redshirts, 3 total redshirts on roster)

http://chat.virginia.sportswar.com/message_board/basketball/2015/October/6/6787621.php

TexasZagFan
11-03-2015, 09:32 AM
That's a very short list. The pic in the post following is definitely NFSW, at least where I work. lol

ProjectMKUltra5
11-03-2015, 09:52 AM
Huh, all teams that have won at high level too. Good stuff

TravelinZag
11-04-2015, 08:22 AM
While not a redshirt, delays for missions have a similar effect. GU has one, BYU must have a bunch, other schools as well. Any way to track these?

Coach Crazy
11-04-2015, 01:28 PM
Saw this on Virginia's board and thought it was interesting. I know how the Zags feel about redshirting (in particular with the '16 class coming in). It's interesting to see how few "players" ... i.e. schools there are in this arena.

All major teams with more than one voluntary redshirt on current roster:

Creighton (5 voluntary redshirts, 9 total redshirts on roster)
Gonzaga (3 voluntary redshirts, 8 total redshirts on roster)
Virginia (3 voluntary redshirts, 7 total redshirts on roster)
Pitt (3 voluntary redshirts, 5 total redshirts on roster)
St. Mary's (3 voluntary redshirts, 4 total redshirts on roster)
Wisconsin (3 voluntary redshirts, 3 total redshirts on roster)

http://chat.virginia.sportswar.com/message_board/basketball/2015/October/6/6787621.php

I think there is a difference between the shirts, though. Medical Redshirts, Redshirts due to transfer, and Redshirts for the sake of development are not created equal. I see less and less need for a developmental redshirt, these days. Obviously, we have some examples of it being necessary, but if there was not sit out rule, KD, NGW, and J3 wouldn't have redshirted. Nor would Josh have, if he hadn't had his jaw broken. Having said that, Silas would have and Ryan, as well.

webspinnre
11-04-2015, 01:33 PM
Hence the distinction of voluntary redshirts in the chart.

GoZags
11-04-2015, 02:18 PM
Hence the distinction of voluntary redshirts in the chart.

Absolutely.

Kelly Oynyk ... from "voluntary" redshirt to lottery pick. Josh Heyvelt ... "voluntary" redshirt. Kyle Dranginis ... Sam Dower ... David Stockton .... All "voluntary". And many more.... as well as many more to follow.

Coach Crazy
11-04-2015, 02:37 PM
Absolutely.

Kelly Oynyk ... from "voluntary" redshirt to lottery pick. Josh Heyvelt ... "voluntary" redshirt. Kyle Dranginis ... Sam Dower ... David Stockton .... All "voluntary". And many more.... as well as many more to follow.

You're also talking about previous iterations of Zag teams and players that genuinely needed it, either because of depth and/or need for development. Not necessarily because redshirting is somehow some superior method that every kid should go through because it's good for him. I don't consider David Stockton genuine NBA talent, so the only guy I see on that list that really produced any "over the top" development is KO. The rest are pretty prototypical or less when it comes to the RS.

It also really depends on roster rhythm, as well. I just see too many variables to draw any impacting conclusions from those statistics. More and more you are going to see players that redshirt for Gonzaga being guys that are going to have to fight their way into playing time, rather than being groomed to take over or be a star. Unless of course Gonzaga becomes a Kentucky-type team in the next 10 years and is playing 3-5 blue chips a season in the starting lineup.

Zagdawg
11-04-2015, 03:17 PM
"I don't consider David Stockton genuine NBA talent" -- kinda funny since he dominated the NBA D league and has an NBA contract---probably why we are fans and NBA coaches are coaching -- they have a better grasp on basketball than most of us.

northsidezagfan
11-04-2015, 06:00 PM
"I don't consider David Stockton genuine NBA talent" -- kinda funny since he dominated the NBA D league and has an NBA contract---probably why we are fans and NBA coaches are coaching -- they have a better grasp on basketball than most of us.

I got attacked for bringing this up a few weeks ago, but DS does not have a contract. He got cut, never had a guaranteed deal this year. And yes, he performed very well in the D-League which was great to see, but let's not confuse run-n-gun D-League stats for genuine NBA talent. Lots of guys dominate the D-league and barely sniff the NBA. OK everyone pile on me now.....

That being said, I wish he could have had 2 redshirt years because it seems he made his biggest jumps after leaving Gonzaga. I am glad we have had so many players buy-in to the concept of a redshirt year. Very valuable opportunity to get bigger and stronger and more comfortable.

Zagdawg
11-04-2015, 06:06 PM
So the Kings presser was not accurate?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12674670/sacramento-kings-sign-point-guard-david-stockton-2015-16-season

http://www.csnnw.com/nba/kings-sign-gonzagas-david-stockton-multi-year-contract

NBA Transactions

Jun 26, 2014 - David Stockton went undrafted in the 2014 NBA Draft making him an Unrestricted FA.
Sep 26, 2014 - David Stockton signed a contract with the Washington Wizards.
Oct 3, 2014 - The Washington Wizards placed the contract of David Stockton on waivers.
Feb 20, 2015 - David Stockton signed a contract with the Sacramento Kings.
Apr 12, 2015 - David Stockton signed a multi-year contract with the Sacramento Kings.
Oct 23, 2015 - The Sacramento Kings placed the contract of David Stockton on waivers.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/David-Stockton/Summary/8325

northsidezagfan
11-05-2015, 10:58 AM
Well he was signed to a 2 year deal like the press release says, but it was never guaranteed past last year. Technically it was a "multi year deal", but in reality it was a 3 game contract. Pretty common practice for teams to do this to kind of put a no-risk "hold" on a player. An accomplishment nonetheless but a big difference from what Olynyk got (or Dickau, although not a voluntary redshirt)