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View Full Version : Go Big or Too Big Poll



GonzagasaurusFlex
10-30-2015, 06:38 AM
I'm curious to gauge what the consensus is on the Board about Zags starting all three bigs - Karnowski, Sabonis, Wiltjer - and playing them together as much as possible.

Do you think Zags should start the Big 3 and stay big as much as possible or not?

I vote Go Big!

bartruff1
10-30-2015, 06:43 AM
I would maybe try it in some circumstance BUT....I like what they did last year....kept them fresh and from fouling out...so...I vote no..as if it matters...

Marcus
10-30-2015, 07:00 AM
Definitely go big to start. I can see both sides of the argument but with that much talent why not try to force other teams to adjust to them.

Reborn
10-30-2015, 07:03 AM
I voted "no" also. I believe that Kyle Dranginis will start at the 3, and he deserves too. Kyle has given this program so much. I'm looking forward to seeing more of his play this year. The BIG THREE will be on the court together at times, according to Few. I'm excited to see how they play together. If it words, then we'll see them together a lot I suspect. Few has a lot of options.

LongIslandZagFan
10-30-2015, 07:10 AM
The big 3 needs to be done at times that make sense... not starting.

TexasZagFan
10-30-2015, 07:21 AM
The big 3 needs to be done at times that make sense... not starting.

If you're against it, I'm for it!



:jk:

I trust Few to put his players in the best position to succeed. IMO, you can do it as there's another big coming off the bench if there's early foul trouble.

Angelo Roncalli
10-30-2015, 07:33 AM
I trust Few to put his players in the best position to succeed. IMO, you can do it as there's another big coming off the bench if there's early foul trouble.

This.

Birddog
10-30-2015, 07:55 AM
I can see Few and Co going with the "Viagra" lineup at times but I doubt they would start. You all should know the side effects. That lineup could cause a sudden increase (or decrease) in blood pressure, sudden hearing decrease, blurred vision, and then there is the priapism thing. I'm thinking small doses only, and then only for special occasions.

basketballzag
10-30-2015, 08:04 AM
I'm disappointed in this thread because there isn't one mention of Rem starting over Wiltjer. Rem has promised that he will take the Zags to the National Championship this year come hell or highwater. He has repeatedly said this is the year he breaks out because he knows he is on the cusp of that coveted 2nd round NBA draft pick. I also am disappointed in the fact that no one has discussed this but Rem's player proficiency rankings are higher than that of Sabonis, Wiltjer, and Karno combined in the latest ESPN CZN rankings.

ProjectMKUltra5
10-30-2015, 08:11 AM
I can see Few and Co going with the "Viagra" lineup at times but I doubt they would start. You all should know the side effects. That lineup could cause a sudden increase (or decrease) in blood pressure, sudden hearing decrease, blurred vision, and then there is the priapism thing. I'm thinking small doses only, and then only for special occasions.

http://media.giphy.com/media/BBAdXxBAXp3wc/giphy.gif

I almost want it to happen now just so I can say the Viagra lineup is on the floor

TexasZagFan
10-30-2015, 08:55 AM
I can see Few and Co going with the "Viagra" lineup at times but I doubt they would start. You all should know the side effects. That lineup could cause a sudden increase (or decrease) in blood pressure, sudden hearing decrease, blurred vision, and then there is the priapism thing. I'm thinking small doses only, and then only for special occasions.

Is there ANY announcer in America that dares to say in public, "Gonzaga's Viagra lineup"? And would the makers of Cialis complain?

ZagaZags
10-30-2015, 09:31 AM
What happens if Few keeps them in for over 4 hours straight?

SteelZag
10-30-2015, 09:35 AM
The big 3 needs to be done at times that make sense... not starting.

Put 'em in against second stringers and it would look like the Zags were playing against junior high teams. If the experiment doesn't work, there is always plan B.

cjm720
10-30-2015, 09:41 AM
Why not? It's not like they will play 40 minutes each. I believe this is a great testament to Edwards' growth. Foul trouble will dictate a lot as in recent years' w our depth up front.

sittingon50
10-30-2015, 09:46 AM
This.

Double this.

maynard g krebs
10-30-2015, 09:56 AM
I voted no, but then I started thinking about the 69-70 Jacksonville team: Artis Gilmore 7'2, Pembrook Burrows 7', Rod McIntyre 6'10, Rex Morgan 6'5, Vaughn Wedeking 6'2 started. First team to average 100 ppg.

maynard g krebs
10-30-2015, 09:59 AM
And, if things go badly, they'd be eligible for a GM/AIG government bailout because they're too big to fail. Can I say that?

NumberCruncher
10-30-2015, 10:25 AM
I've been back and forth on this. Flipped a coin and it came up "more cowbell." Since that wasn't a choice, I'm thinking might as well start them to see how it works.

amaronizag
10-30-2015, 10:41 AM
I'm all for starting the 3 bigs to show the three best players the respect they deserve. There are going to be so many fouls in the first half of this year due to the new rules, so I doubt they are going to see more than 10 minutes per game on the floor together anyway. Hope I'm wrong. Due to the rule changes, I think we'll see a lot more zone this year compared to past years. I'm more concerned about how our offense will play against the zone than how well we will play a zone defense. That has been a real weakness in the past. With the outside shooting and inside bigs we have this year, I think we will learn to play well against a zone defense.

Few will learn to mix the players so the level of play doesn't drop off significantly on offense or defense as a result of substitutions. Other goals are to get fresh horses in the game and take advantage of matchups that allow us to dominate. The 3 bigs will certainly allow us to dominate but will that hold down the production of any one of the three that would be more wisely used in other player combinations?? Time will tell if we can we put other looks on the floor that are equally as deadly, for example smaller faster, more aggressive on man-to-man defense, fast break, etc??? What fun this year will be. Most excited I've even been.

hooter73
10-30-2015, 10:57 AM
No. More fouls and contrary to the fast paced game. The three big is an unsustainable idea throughout the game, but it could be a game changer to toss them in together after about ten or fifteen minutes of play to really shake things up if we are stagnant or falling flat - hard to think that will happen with this team but...

Other teams are going to play small. They dont have the bench depth to match the size so they wont play to our hand, they will make us play to theirs and there are lots of unknown factors like are we really shored up on defending against the 3, can our ability to out score make up for fouls against smaller, faster forwards, etc... it'll be interesting to watch how it all plays out that is for sure.

SteelZag
10-30-2015, 11:13 AM
No. More fouls and contrary to the fast paced game. The three big is an unsustainable idea throughout the game, but it could be a game changer to toss them in together after about ten or fifteen minutes of play to really shake things up if we are stagnant or falling flat - hard to think that will happen with this team but...

Other teams are going to play small. They dont have the bench depth to match the size so they wont play to our hand, they will make us play to theirs and there are lots of unknown factors like are we really shored up on defending against the 3, can our ability to out score make up for fouls against smaller, faster forwards, etc... it'll be interesting to watch how it all plays out that is for sure.

Wow! This vote is going to come down to the hangin' chads.

Marcus
10-30-2015, 11:34 AM
I think, in theory, the positives outweigh the negatives of having all three on the court. They should be able to dominate on the glass, find mismatches on offense, provide extra length to bother 3 point shooters. It sure helps to have Karno in the paint as an imposing force to help curb some of the opposing teams drives to the hoop. As others have said though, it could cause more foul trouble as it would put more pressure on the bigs, espesially the anchor. If Ryan can come in and focus on D and prove he can block/alter shots consitantly he can sure help take the pressure off the big three for D puroposes. Im excited to see how this plays out.

Hooter has a good point that I never thought of before. Other teams will not try to match the size simply because most teams will not have access to it on their roster. It will really be about which team will be able to impose their style of play on the game.

How the games are going to be officiated will play a huge part in the success or failure of this lineup too.

btzag
10-30-2015, 12:20 PM
Go real big! McClellan at point, Drang at 2 and then the Big 3!

TheGonzagaFactor
10-30-2015, 12:42 PM
If they start, I bet they'll all only be on until one picks up a foul. First big to pick up a foul comes out for Dranginis.

If they play together a lot I can't see it working. I can see it as another look for teams to prepare for and not much else.

KW at the 3 will pick up fouls quickly. I know their 3 will have to guard Wiltjer, but KW isn't going to draw many fouls on the perimeter and KW is more important to us than whoever is guarding him is to the opponent. He will get 3 point looks anyway, we don't need to tire out two other big men to get him looks.

#1bulldogfan
10-30-2015, 01:22 PM
kW, after coming back for his senior year and to show off his skill set for the NBA he will require the min to get the job done.

Shem, after coming back for his senior year will also need the min for the same reason as Kw. He also will demands the min.

Sabonis, returning to Gonzaga to further work on his game, he cannot do so on the Bench.

Ryan needs floor time to prepare for a leading role next year

The time that is required to keep everyone happy in including kd and the rest of the talent requires a creative game plan and innovative coaching and I believe we have the leadership that will get the job done!

dan71w
10-30-2015, 01:31 PM
I think no, keep them fresh rotate them in. give the other team ???? make them constantly adjust to what we are throwing at them.

Martin Centre Mad Man
10-30-2015, 02:32 PM
I would have voted to start all four bigs, but that wasn't an option.

jazzdelmar
10-30-2015, 02:44 PM
I voted no, but then I started thinking about the 69-70 Jacksonville team: Artis Gilmore 7'2, Pembrook Burrows 7', Rod McIntyre 6'10, Rex Morgan 6'5, Vaughn Wedeking 6'2 started. First team to average 100 ppg.

Don't forget Chip Dublin, the flashy guard from NYC.

TravelinZag
10-30-2015, 02:48 PM
Voted yes, but not for every game. Would be fun to start big until first tv timeout, then go to five fastest. Would have most opponents reeling before the ten-minute mark. Still, just occasionally!

maynard g krebs
10-30-2015, 03:25 PM
Don't forget Chip Dublin, the flashy guard from NYC.

Starting lineup. Gotta admit I don't remember Chip Dublin.

hooter73
10-30-2015, 03:42 PM
I think no, keep them fresh rotate them in. give the other team ???? make them constantly adjust to what we are throwing at them.

See I like this approach better because it makes teams adjust to us. We keep throwing fresh bodies at them with different skill sets, it tires them out, wears them down. Our 7 foot 280lb center is getting tired or got a quick second foul, heres another. Our high efficiency forward needs a break, heres another. But if we hit them with three bigs, it is a mismatch, and not necessarily as much in our favor as many think, suddenly we are the ones scrambling to cover them and they are dictating the tempo. Just my opinion.

GonzaGAW
10-30-2015, 03:46 PM
great poll question!

lots of goofy off subject comments

I like the idea of playing the 3 bigs at the same time, as coach has said he will do.
but I vote that they should not all 3 start together.
let coach pick and choose according to match ups and such.

BULLDOG#1
10-30-2015, 03:48 PM
might work in situations, but teams with good wings will likely shred them. Hope I'm wrong because it looks like Few is going to give it a go.

NotoriousZ
10-30-2015, 04:24 PM
I voted no, but it will be fun to see. It will work against most teams with Wiltjer playing the 3 on offense and Sabonis guarding the other team's 3 on defense, if we're not playing a zone D.

Vanzagger
10-30-2015, 04:28 PM
draw 5 names out of a hat

Zagricultural
10-30-2015, 08:00 PM
What will happen 8 minutes in when Sabonis has two fouls and Karno needs a blow? I like having them on the court a little together, but starting? Not too sure about it. Does make me even more excited for the exhibition game!

zagamatic
10-30-2015, 10:50 PM
I don't know if I'll be on board with STARTING all 3 bigs, but I definitely want to see what can happen with them out there for short stretches. It'll be fun to watch regardless of how much we see it because quite simply at least one of them "should " be able to dominate their defender.

MickMick
10-30-2015, 11:28 PM
Not a big fan of the big lineup, but will have to wait and see it in action a few times before I get too emotionally invested in any particular scheme.


What I'm afraid of:

The team rolls though the WCC and becomes comfortable with and time invested in the big lineup. Then when post season comes, a quick, athletic, top tier team runs GU off the court in embarrassing fashion. Meanwhile, folks here will have reassured me of how great this big lineup is for nearly a full season as GU regularly beats up on the front courts of the WCC.

I'm not completely sold.

Coach Crazy
10-31-2015, 09:17 AM
kW, after coming back for his senior year and to show off his skill set for the NBA he will require the min to get the job done.

Shem, after coming back for his senior year will also need the min for the same reason as Kw. He also will demands the min.

Sabonis, returning to Gonzaga to further work on his game, he cannot do so on the Bench.

Ryan needs floor time to prepare for a leading role next year

The time that is required to keep everyone happy in including kd and the rest of the talent requires a creative game plan and innovative coaching and I believe we have the leadership that will get the job done!

One thing Coach Cal was able to do that wasn't shady, was figure out how to get a bunch of AA's and 5*'s on a roster and get them to share minutes, while also producing and not damaging their chance at a draft payoff.

It's going to be about efficiency. With Ryan now in the lineup, Shem can play the way he needs to. Shem doesn't need 30+ minutes a game to be effective or to showcase. In fact, none of them do. What this team needs is the minutes that it takes to maximize each player's output without damaging the final score.

The a more pressing matter is not how Few (or if) will make the Big 3 work, but how he will make BA and Silas Melson fit within the flow of the game. Not that they have to be huge contributors, but if he can find a way for them to be efficient with 10-15 minutes a game, that's gonna go a long ways in solidifying the identity and cohesion this team will have come tourney time.

Coach Crazy
10-31-2015, 09:20 AM
Not a big fan of the big lineup, but will have to wait and see it in action a few times before I get too emotionally invested in any particular scheme.


What I'm afraid of:

The team rolls though the WCC and becomes comfortable with and time invested in the big lineup. Then when post season comes, a quick, athletic, top tier team runs GU off the court in embarrassing fashion. Meanwhile, folks here will have reassured me of how great this big lineup is for nearly a full season as GU regularly beats up on the front courts of the WCC.

I'm not completely sold.

This is fair, but this is also where fast, quick, athletic guards (which we very much have this year) and the 3/4 and full court press/trap can be incredibly useful in slowing the pace long enough for your bigs to be set and comfortable in the half court.

BobZag
10-31-2015, 10:11 AM
Zags would be killed on the fastbreaks against them with 3 bigs in there.

jazzdelmar
10-31-2015, 10:46 AM
The a more pressing matter is not how Few (or if) will make the Big 3 work, but how he will make BA and Silas Melson fit within the flow of the game. Not that they have to be huge contributors, but if he can find a way for them to be efficient with 10-15 minutes a game, that's gonna go a long ways in solidifying the identity and cohesion this team will have come tourney time.

Brilliant point, Crazy.

willandi
10-31-2015, 10:54 PM
I sure wish Few knew what he was doing! Do you realize that he has lost almost 20% of the games he's been head coach in?

Oh, well. It will all work out.

Baldwinzag
11-01-2015, 06:05 AM
Zags would be killed on the fastbreaks against them with 3 bigs in there.

FWIW, this was their downfall vs Baylor yesterday. Transition defense was the first thing mentioned, followed by rebounding.

Synopsis:

-- killed in transition (assuming our bigs?)
-- baylor wing/combo-forward went off
-- wiltjer was cold
-- perk was good
-- sabonis was dominate
-- edwards overmatched (karno barely played)
-- guards matched 'em, bigs were humbled

Hoopaholic
11-01-2015, 06:41 AM
This is fair, but this is also where fast, quick, athletic guards (which we very much have this year) and the 3/4 and full court press/trap can be incredibly useful in slowing the pace long enough for your bigs to be set and comfortable in the half court.

very valid points......
and dominating the offensive boards tends to slow down the transition
and high shooting percentage tends to slow down transition

Zagdawg
11-01-2015, 07:00 AM
Good to hear Few was able to get the 3 bigs on the floor at the same time in a game that did not count against good competition but the issues that the majority expected did play out --- Kyle W. could not guard the three as we expected and on top of that he was off on the offensive end (which negated the expected offensive benefit of playing the big three) --- the question is was he off on the offensive end due to chasing around a smaller guy--probably played into it somewhat.

Go Zags

TravelinZag
11-01-2015, 08:40 AM
Recognize the concern about early foul trouble if the 3 bigs start, but there will be games with an opposite corollary. If the 3 bigs finish the first half of a game with 4 or fewer of their collective 15 fouls among them, and the match ups work, could be heavy doses of all three playing together in the second half.

Zagdawg
11-01-2015, 10:12 AM
If one of the big 3 have 2 fouls - they won't be on the floor to end the half-- not going to chance getting a third.

Zagricultural
11-01-2015, 01:16 PM
FWIW, this was their downfall vs Baylor yesterday. Transition defense was the first thing mentioned, followed by rebounding.

Synopsis:

-- killed in transition (assuming our bigs?)
-- baylor wing/combo-forward went off
-- wiltjer was cold
-- perk was good
-- sabonis was dominate
-- edwards overmatched (karno barely played)
-- guards matched 'em, bigs were humbled

Link? I would love to get my hands on a box score

cjm720
11-01-2015, 01:45 PM
Link?


FWIW, this was their downfall vs Baylor yesterday. Transition defense was the first thing mentioned, followed by rebounding.

Synopsis:

-- killed in transition (assuming our bigs?)
-- baylor wing/combo-forward went off
-- wiltjer was cold
-- perk was good
-- sabonis was dominate
-- edwards overmatched (karno barely played)
-- guards matched 'em, bigs were humbled