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Zags_Fanatic
10-22-2015, 09:06 AM
ESPN just posted the "Secret Scrimmage" list. Apparently with the coaching change at Texas that scrimmage has been dropped in exchange for a scrimmage on 10/31 vs. Baylor in SLC. Incidentally Texas will be scrimmaging Stephen F Austin this year.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/13945801/full-list-college-hoops-secret-scrimmage (Insider Only)

sittingon50
10-22-2015, 09:30 AM
Thanks Fanatic. Another good test.

We actually traded a scrimmage with Coach Barnes into a Battle in Seattle.

zagsfanforlife
10-22-2015, 09:48 AM
Could anyone with insider post the article? I am very curious to see who is visiting who

jazzdelmar
10-22-2015, 09:56 AM
Could anyone with insider post the article? I am very curious to see who is visiting who


Knock yourself out, Life...

Oct. 12
TCU at North Texas

Oct. 17
Boise State at Colorado
Navy at William & Mary

Oct. 24
N.C. State at Richmond
Washington at St. Mary's
Creighton at Missouri
Grand Canyon at Santa Clara
Central Connecticut State at Stony Brook
North Florida at FAU
High Point at East Carolina
Charleston Southern at Citadel
UC Davis at Pacific
Chicago State at Lewis
Lincoln Memorial at Morehead State

Oct. 25
Jacksonville at FIU
Dartmouth at Fordham Nebraska-Omaha vs. North Dakota in Sioux Falls
Carleton at Northeastern
Indiana State vs. Northern Illinois in Indianapolis
Belmont at Mercer
Georgia State at New Orleans
Missouri-STL at Eastern Illinois

Oct. 26
Howard at Bowie State

Oct. 29
Charleston Southern at South Carolina State
BYU-Hawaii at BYU

Oct. 30
La Salle at Princeton
LIU-Brooklyn at Columbia
Wesley College at Monmouth
IPFW at Ball State
Eastern Kentucky vs. Chattanooga in Knoxville
Young Harris at Western Carolina
Lamar at Texas Southern

Oct. 31
Vanderbilt at North Carolina Maryland at Villanova
Baylor vs. Gonzaga in Salt Lake City
Georgetown at Pittsburgh
VCU at Virginia
Dayton vs. Purdue in Indianapolis
Utah vs. Texas A&M in Colorado Springs
Xavier vs. Illinois in Indianapolis
Oklahoma State at Wichita State
UNLV at USC
Stephen F. Austin at Texas
Tulane at Iowa State
Central Florida at Florida
Virginia Tech at South Carolina
Marquette vs. Stanford in Colorado Springs
Wake Forest vs. Georgia in Charlotte
TCU at LSU
Memphis vs. Georgia Tech in Nashville
Arizona State at Long Beach State
South Florida at Miami
Belmont at Alabama
UAB at Mississippi State
UNC Greensboro at SMU
Clemson at Charleston
Davidson at Tennessee
Harvard at Rhode Island
Valparaiso at Northwestern
Wyoming at Nebraska
Manhattan at Saint Joseph's
Hofstra at Penn State
Rutgers at Lafayette
DePaul at Detroit
Weber State at Colorado State
Portland at Oregon State
Bowling Green at Ohio State
UMass Lowell at George Mason
Albany at Iona
Lehigh at Binghamton
UMBC at Delaware
UNH at Quinnipiac
Stony Brook at Yale
Bethune Cookman at Florida Gulf Coast
Lipscomb vs. Troy in Birmingham
Georgia Southern at North Florida
UNC Asheville at USC Upstate
Northern Kentucky at IUPUI
Eastern Washington at Utah Valley
Northern Arizona at Cal State Fullerton
Northern Colorado at Sam Houston State
Sacramento State vs. Cal Poly in Visalia at College of Sequoias
Campbell at Elon
NC A&T at High Point
VMI at Liberty
Longwood vs. East Tennessee State at Virginia Tech
Winthrop at UNC Wilmington
San Diego at UC Irvine
UC Riverside at Pepperdine
Air Force at Cal State Northridge
UC Davis vs. Cal State Bakersfield at UC Merced
Drexel at Wagner
Maryland-Eastern Shore at Rider
Richmond at Towson
Wofford at Charlotte
Louisiana Tech vs. South Alabama in Miss.
Nicholls State at Rice
Southern Miss. vs. Southern Illinois in Memphis
Youngstown State at Bucknell
Cornell at Marist
Pennsylvania at Loyola (Maryland)
Drake vs. North Dakota State in Minneapolis
UMKC at Missouri State
St. Francis (New York) at Iona
NJIT at St. Peter's
Buffalo at Army
St. Bonaventure at Kent State
Murray State at Miami (Ohio)
Ohio at Radford
Western Illinois at Northern Illinois
Bryant at Holy Cross
Tennessee State at Samford
Tennessee Martin vs. Arkansas Little Rock in Memphis
Carleton at Colgate
Northwestern State at Jackson State
Brown at Hartford
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi at UTRGV

Nov. 1
Arizona at St. Mary's West Virginia vs. Temple in at Hood College in Maryland
George Washington at Boston College
Saint Louis at Illinois State
Middle Tennessee State at Ole Miss
Evansville vs. Central Michigan in Indianapolis
Hampton at Old Dominion
Tennessee Tech at Jacksonville at Middle Georgia College
Alabama State at Kennesaw State
North Dakota vs. South Dakota
Portland State at Seattle
UC Santa Barbara at Fresno State
James Madison at Navy
Texas A&M-Kingsville at UTSA
UIC at Western Michigan
Chicago State at Milwaukee
Wright State at Loyola (Illinois)
Fairleigh Dickinson at Fairfield
Southeast Missouri State at Arkansas State
Mercer at Stetson
UT Arlington vs. Incarnate Word in Waco
Prairie View at Houston Baptist

Nov. 2
NC Central at Winston Salem State

Nov. 5
Presbyterian at Western Carolina

Nov. 6
Seton Hall at Penn State Merrimack at UNH
Columbia at Siena
Bridgeport at Fairfield
CW Post at Marist
Erskine at Citadel
Louisiana-Monroe vs. Lamar in Alexandria

Nov. 7
Baylor vs. Houston in Austin
Wisconsin vs. Northern Iowa in Dubuque
San Diego State at UCLA
SMU at Colorado
Northeastern at Providence
Drexel at Temple
Towson at Duquesne
George Mason at Rutgers
James Madison at Georgetown
Long Beach State at Stanford
Saint Joseph's at Hofstra
Appalachian State at Virginia Tech
North Texas at Stephen F. Austin
New Mexico State at Denver
Emory Riddle at Central Florida Pepperdine at USC
Furman at Georgia Tech
Fordham at Lehigh
UMass at Albany
Bryant at UMass Lowell
Florida Gulf Coast at Lynn
Lipscomb at Samford
USC Upstate at Gardner Webb
Montana vs. Seattle in Spokane
Southern Utah vs. Colorado-Mesa
Youngstown State at Akron
Wofford at Campbell
Liberty vs. Hampton (neutral)
Coastal Carolina at UNC Greensboro
Tennessee Tech at Winthrop
Morgan State at Delaware
William & Mary at Maryland-Eastern Shore
FIU at Bethune Cookman
Detroit vs. Ball State at Defiance
Davenport at Green Bay
Sacred Heart at Brown
NJIT at Cornell
Niagara at Wagner
Iona at Princeton
Yale at Boston University
Bucknell at Quinnipiac
St. Peter's at LIU-Brooklyn
Salisbury at Howard
Radford at NC Central
St. Francis (Pennsylvania) at Lafayette
Texas Arlington at Northwestern State
Sam Houston State at Prairie View A&M
American at VMI
Texas State at Abilene Christian at Howard Payne University

Nov. 8
Niagra at St. Francis (New York)
Kent State at Robert Morris
Southern at New Orleans

hooter73
10-22-2015, 10:23 AM
Creighton at Missouri, Wake Forest vs. Georgia, SDSU vs UCLA, Theres some good match ups happening. That OK State vs Wichita would be a fun one to sneak into.

sittingon50
10-22-2015, 10:35 AM
& St. Mary's has both Washington & Arizona coming in?

DukeSilver
10-22-2015, 11:06 AM
As an SLC resident, I'm very curious ... Is it ever possible to observe these scrimmages? Did anyone ever manage to see the annual Texas scrimmage in Denver?

ZagaZags
10-22-2015, 11:16 AM
As an SLC resident, I'm very curious ... Is it ever possible to observe these scrimmages? Did anyone ever manage to see the annual Texas scrimmage in Denver?

The scrimmage is closed tighter than a frogs butt under water.

hooter73
10-22-2015, 11:24 AM
& St. Mary's has both Washington & Arizona coming in?

Zona plays St. Mary's of West Virginia

Kiddwell
10-22-2015, 12:24 PM
The scrimmage is closed tighter than a frogs butt under water.

And super-glued, cauterized. :D


:]

doctorzag
10-22-2015, 02:19 PM
Are the redshirt transfers allowed to play in this scrimmage?

zagamatic
10-22-2015, 04:28 PM
While it would be cool to know how this year's redshirt players stack up, I kinda hope that they don't play in the scrimmage. I'd rather have the coaches have as much info as possible to work with for THIS years players as it's such a small sample size before we get down to business. But that's just me.

doctorzag
10-22-2015, 06:08 PM
While it would be cool to know how this year's redshirt players stack up, I kinda hope that they don't play in the scrimmage. I'd rather have the coaches have as much info as possible to work with for THIS years players as it's such a small sample size before we get down to business. But that's just me.

I agree. I was just thinking we only have 9 scholarship players and Karno might not be able to go, so we are down to 8. I guess we could give some minutes to Rem and Dustin if need be.

DixieZag
10-22-2015, 06:20 PM
Great day for a scrimmage in SLC, it will be a treat to go down there on a mission to haunt Baylor throughout the year.

Would it be too big a trick if we dressed Karno up as monster?

Good night Spokane!

sittingon50
10-22-2015, 08:33 PM
Zona plays St. Mary's of West Virginia

Don't believe that is correct, hooter.

TheGonzagaFactor
10-23-2015, 06:51 AM
Are the redshirt transfers allowed to play in this scrimmage?



Everyone can play. It's not official.

TheGonzagaFactor
10-23-2015, 06:53 AM
While it would be cool to know how this year's redshirt players stack up, I kinda hope that they don't play in the scrimmage. I'd rather have the coaches have as much info as possible to work with for THIS years players as it's such a small sample size before we get down to business. But that's just me.


I've never been to one of these, but there's no way it's just one scrimmage. I bet it's 1s vs 1s, backups vs backups, benchwarmers vs benchwarmers, etc...

I know they also take time to go over situational play. I've always visualized it as a 4-6 hour set and everyone gets some run.

hooter73
10-23-2015, 07:11 AM
Don't believe that is correct, hooter.

Oh, yep, now I see it. Well hopefully St. Marys can get some good time under their belts and apply it to get back into the top half of league teams this year.

KStyles
10-23-2015, 07:14 AM
Everyone can play. It's not official.

It's an official 'contest' per NCAA rules, and those ineligible to participate in outside competition (e.g. transfers) can't participate.

First-year players (true freshmen) can participate in the scrimmage & exhibition game without it counting as a year of eligibility.

ZagWhoShotLibertyValance
10-23-2015, 08:00 AM
If I remember correctly, when we played Texas, we played two halves, with refs and clocks and fouls with extended time outs for play set up and coaching. Then played a third “half” with the players who did not get as much floor time in the first two halves.

Not sure if that is how it is still done, but its an opportunity to get a lot of floor time. ZWSLV

TheGonzagaFactor
10-23-2015, 08:26 AM
It's an official 'contest' per NCAA rules, and those ineligible to participate in outside competition (e.g. transfers) can't participate.

First-year players (true freshmen) can participate in the scrimmage & exhibition game without it counting as a year of eligibility.

Thanks for clearing that up

hooter73
10-23-2015, 09:02 AM
It gives the players a chance to play against guys that dont know their sets or styles as well as their own teammates do. It gives the younger guys a chance to see what the competition level will be like - speed, size, changes in sets, how the coaches act in games and how the individual players react to all that, and the returning players get to knock some rust off and get back in full 'go' mode. Its an invaluable opportunity.

gonstu
10-23-2015, 10:27 AM
As secret as it is, there somehow always seems to be a score and some rough stats leaked out a couple days afterwards. I'm looking forward to that leakage.

sittingon50
10-23-2015, 10:36 AM
As secret as it is, there somehow always seems to be a score and some rough stats leaked out a couple days afterwards. I'm looking forward to that leakage.

Looking forward to leakage? Wait 'til you're older!

:p

DixieZag
10-23-2015, 05:06 PM
If I remember correctly, when we played Texas, we played two halves, with refs and clocks and fouls with extended time outs for play set up and coaching. Then played a third “half” with the players who did not get as much floor time in the first two halves.

Not sure if that is how it is still done, but its an opportunity to get a lot of floor time. ZWSLV

Thing I remember most about that scrimmage was the tweet from the UT player that went something like "Not sure if I'm supposed to say this but Zags are loaded."

ZionZag
10-27-2015, 11:56 AM
As an SLC resident, I'm very curious ... Is it ever possible to observe these scrimmages? Did anyone ever manage to see the annual Texas scrimmage in Denver?

ZAGS IN ZION

OK...Did a little snooping this morning and now know when they are coming, where they are staying and when they are leaving....still working on where they are playing. Some guesses around town are; 1) Westminster Gym 2) U of U basketball facility 3) Judge Memorial High School (the McCarthy's High School) 4) Zion Bank Basketball Center (practice facility for the Jazz)......#4 is my guess since the Jazz are traveling and they can lock the place up "tighter than a frogs butt underwater"...."and super-glued, cauterized"..............ANY THOUGHTS??????

Bogozags
10-28-2015, 05:38 AM
Looking forward to leakage? Wait 'til you're older!

:p

:roll:

ZionZag
10-28-2015, 10:29 AM
ZAGS IN ZION

OK...Did a little snooping this morning and now know when they are coming, where they are staying and when they are leaving....still working on where they are playing. Some guesses around town are; 1) Westminster Gym 2) U of U basketball facility 3) Judge Memorial High School (the McCarthy's High School) 4) Zion Bank Basketball Center (practice facility for the Jazz)......#4 is my guess since the Jazz are traveling and they can lock the place up "tighter than a frogs butt underwater"...."and super-glued, cauterized"..............ANY THOUGHTS??????

Ok....It's at the Jazz practice facility on Sat afternoon and it will be "tighter than a frogs butt underwater" but rumor has it a tall ladder to see in the high windows might give you a "look/see" for about 2 minutes and 30 seconds....good luck

maynard g krebs
10-28-2015, 11:03 AM
Ok....It's at the Jazz practice facility on Sat afternoon and it will be "tighter than a frogs butt underwater" but rumor has it a tall ladder to see in the high windows might give you a "look/see" for about 2 minutes and 30 seconds....good luck

Got a drone?

ZionZag
10-28-2015, 12:37 PM
Got a drone?


Great thought Maynard......a drone with a camera on it so we could put it on this board for viewing on Sunday..

doctorzag
10-31-2015, 04:38 PM
Teams are now allowed to release stats and scores from secret scrimmages now. We should hear something soon.

zagsfanforlife
10-31-2015, 04:54 PM
Jeff Goodman just reported that Baylor beat Gonzaga in the scrimmage today. Sabonis was best player for Gonzaga.

strikenowhere
10-31-2015, 05:00 PM
Jeff Goodman just reported that Baylor beat Gonzaga in the scrimmage today. Sabonis was best player for Gonzaga.

Ugh...its one scrimmage and I already feel like I'm watching the daily fluctuations of a stock!

jazzdelmar
10-31-2015, 05:18 PM
Bears are preseason top 20 in some polls, not chopped liver. Sabonis best, not a surprise to me.

Zagricultural
10-31-2015, 05:19 PM
Wish I could see the stats!

bigblahla
10-31-2015, 05:28 PM
If true then I like it....it's good to be humbled when it doesn't count....sounds like many teaching moments could be had from this scrimmage....never want the Zags to lose but this is one time it may do then a heck of a lot of good....gonna be a great year...NO DOUBT ABOUT IT...

Go!! Zags!!!

jazzdelmar
10-31-2015, 05:30 PM
Agree. Couple years we trashed Texas and didn't get past second round.

Lewey
10-31-2015, 05:31 PM
Wish I could see the stats!

Just because they can release the stats now doesn't mean they will. I think if we see stats it won't be coming from the Gonzaga side.

23dpg
10-31-2015, 05:57 PM
Doomed?:confused::confused:

DixieZag
10-31-2015, 06:17 PM
Agree. Couple years we trashed Texas and didn't get past second round.

I am surprised.

But, I'm with you on this one. I think it might do some good to have the three who have heard they're the best in the country (and may well be), and those young guards, go out and get kicked around now, so that when they roll out the ball against Pitt and UW they don't think they're invulnerable.

Plus, we really don't know how these things go down, what Few wanted to look at when, - - I'm happy they got a good game.

Mike83814
10-31-2015, 06:19 PM
Doomed?:confused::confused:

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!

DixieZag
10-31-2015, 06:27 PM
Is the Jazz practice facility a dome?

Birddog
10-31-2015, 06:32 PM
Karno has only been practicing for a week or so.

KStyles
10-31-2015, 06:36 PM
I am surprised.

But, I'm with you on this one. I think it might do some good to have the three who have heard they're the best in the country (and may well be), and those young guards, go out and get kicked around now, so that when they roll out the ball against Pitt and UW they don't think they're invulnerable.

Plus, we really don't know how these things go down, what Few wanted to look at when, - - I'm happy they got a good game.

Yep.

Zagricultural
10-31-2015, 07:51 PM
Goodman was asked about how good the zags can be if the guards are good, and he mentioned they need a big scoring wing. thoughts?

MDABE80
10-31-2015, 08:17 PM
Wings? In this system, it's hard to classify some 3's from 4's. Not sure Wiltjer is a wing or not . He should qualify as a 3 I guess depending on who else is on the floor.. If the guy means a 6 ft 6 in "3" who scores, well, he' right. Who couldn't use on of those??? It's a category that changes.

Zaga
10-31-2015, 08:38 PM
Guess I can no longer believe my own hype and adjust to something more realistic.

Coach Crazy
10-31-2015, 09:46 PM
It was a scrimmage. Also, I don't know how you can make a generic comment like "they need a big scoring wing"? No, they to have an efficient player like KD on the floor when you are likely to have Josh Perkins and at least one or two of the big 3 that will need the touches, and two young 2's that need the chance to develop their offense.

And KD is plenty decent size for a 3.

Zagricultural
10-31-2015, 10:00 PM
It was a scrimmage. Also, I don't know how you can make a generic comment like "they need a big scoring wing"? No, they to have an efficient player like KD on the floor when you are likely to have Josh Perkins and at least one or two of the big 3 that will need the touches, and two young 2's that need the chance to develop their offense.

And KD is plenty decent size for a 3.

I agree. Just wondered if he was just making a generic comment or if it was based off a baylor wing exploiting us. Anyhow, I am actually pretty excited about Draino this year.

raise the zag
10-31-2015, 10:35 PM
Baylor says Wiltjer played mostly the 3 spot...and was off.

As I've been saying since April, I wholeheartedly believe this is a mistake.

Split time, sure, yet forcing the issue to get floor time with the big 3 ain't gonna be pretty.

MAYBE vs WCC teams, but heard our bigs could not defend their SF or PF.

No surprise there...Wiltjer was forced to guard a 6'7", 220lb athletic machine...

Grrr....

Guards were turnover prone but it was the bigs who disappointed vs Baylor, particularly their defense in transition & on the wing.

zagamatic
10-31-2015, 10:37 PM
Hey, it "could be" our only "loss" of the year. Just saying :D

raise the zag
10-31-2015, 10:50 PM
Additionally, just heard from a former player,

Baylor bigs abused our guys on the boards. As mentioned earlier, it was the bigs who were dominated, defended, and outplayed down the stretch. Our guards held their own.

Sabonis did fine, but they bottled up Wiltjer, & Karnowski was pushed around by Rico Gathers. He could score but couldn't get a rebound.

Nice to hear our guards set the pace but Baylors bigs were more impressive on this day. 2 sport outlets state Baylor has a Top-5 frontcourt in the country...and it showed today.

Btw...hasn't been mentioned, but we are really REALLY going to miss Byron Wesley.

Don't forget those several 20+pt games & clutch drives to the hoop in tight games last season.

A presence along the wing, defensively & offensively, was sorely missing vs Baylor.

Wiltjer ain't the answer. Keep him inside-out unless our opponent is overmatched.

willandi
10-31-2015, 10:50 PM
Baylor says Wiltjer played mostly the 3 spot...and was off.

As I've been saying since April, I wholeheartedly believe this is a mistake.

Split time, sure, yet forcing the issue to get floor time with the big 3 ain't gonna be pretty.

MAYBE vs WCC teams, but heard our bigs could not defend their SF or PF.

No surprise there...Wiltjer was forced to guard a 6'7", 220lb athletic machine...

Grrr....

Guards were turnover prone but it was the bigs who disappointed vs Baylor, particularly their defense in transition & on the wing.

I will guarantee that you are right...unless your wrong. Then you are on your own.

bartruff1
11-01-2015, 05:05 AM
Bears are preseason top 20 in some polls, not chopped liver. Sabonis best, not a surprise to me.

I believe Baylor was 10th in Pomeroy's ranking....Gonzaga 8th......

jazzdelmar
11-01-2015, 05:07 AM
Bingo, Bart.....

Strength of Schedule NCSOS
Rank Team Conf W-L Pyth AdjO AdjD AdjT Luck Pyth OppO OppD Pyth
1 Duke ACC 0-0 .9384 115.4 1 91.1 9 69.3 107 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
2 Kentucky SEC 0-0 .9364 112.2 7 88.8 2 67.6 244 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
3 Virginia ACC 0-0 .9271 110.4 14 88.5 1 63.5 349 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
4 Kansas B12 0-0 .9265 111.9 10 89.7 4 70.3 53 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
5 Villanova BE 0-0 .9229 112.3 6 90.5 6 68.6 161 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
6 Arizona P12 0-0 .9084 110.6 13 90.6 7 69.1 128 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
7 North Carolina ACC 0-0 .9065 112.6 4 92.4 17 72.4 8 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
8 Gonzaga WCC 0-0 .9040 113.0 3 93.0 26 68.6 160 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
9 Wisconsin B10 0-0 .8999 112.1 8 92.7 19 64.0 347 +.000 1 .0000 1 0.0 1 0.0 1 .0000 1
10 Baylor B12 0-0 .8957 110.7 12 91.8 12 66.8 297 +.000 1 .00

Zagricultural
11-01-2015, 05:57 AM
If this makes the coaches rethink starting the three bigs then I am happy happy happy.

cjm720
11-01-2015, 06:17 AM
coaches and players always improve under Few, doubt that changes.

I wonder how close the game was and who was on the floor at the end?

Regardless of how this went down, no shame...especially with the new backcourt and trying to fit three all Americans in the lineup....

RenoZag
11-01-2015, 06:18 AM
Beat Pitt

roxdoc
11-01-2015, 07:00 AM
Not making excuses but Shem cannot have been a full strength. It takes quite awhile for anyone to get back to 100% let alone a prime athlete.

HenneZag
11-01-2015, 07:11 AM
It's just a scrimmage. The reason for this scrimmage served its purpose and I'm sure the staff saw where the potential problem areas will be and will adjust. This team at the guard position is going to have many hiccups early on, and playing all 3 bigs will work against many teams, but not against fast athletic teams.

I want to see KD at the 3 to start,he's experienced and will bring a sense of calm. He understands the system and can do a bit of everything. This is better to happen now then during the season.

LongIslandZagFan
11-01-2015, 07:25 AM
something tells me that once PK is full strength, nobody is pushing him around.

Zag365
11-01-2015, 07:55 AM
It's just a scrimmage. The reason for this scrimmage served its purpose and I'm sure the staff saw where the potential problem areas will be and will adjust. This team at the guard position is going to have many hiccups early on, and playing all 3 bigs will work against many teams, but not against fast athletic teams.

I want to see KD at the 3 to start,he's experienced and will bring a sense of calm. He understands the system and can do a bit of everything. This is better to happen now then during the season.

Agree with this analysis. Baylor was a good experience. None of us saw the scrimmage so characterization of individual play or scheme is speculative. Coach Lloyd said at the Seattle tip-off that each year is a new team and that, while this year's team was improving each week in practice, it might be the case that November will have some ups and downs as identity of the team, style of play, and best roles for players gets worked out. I bought into it.

Tmac5360
11-01-2015, 07:59 AM
Seems like people are drawing a lot of conclusions from things they "heard". If Kyle did play the 3 it's because this is practice. I'm sure a few guys played out of position. I'm sure Few will be ok. It still amazes me how many people on this board actually think they have any idea what is going on. Without being at one workout of any kind. Deep breathe folks. Wait until the exhibition game, then you can tell the idiot few what he is doing wrong.

Once and Future Zag
11-01-2015, 08:47 AM
Not making excuses but Shem cannot have been a full strength. It takes quite awhile for anyone to get back to 100% let alone a prime athlete.

Indeed - I got hit with pneumonia back in January and it took me months to get my wind back...

TravelinZag
11-01-2015, 09:06 AM
Great! A serious test against a strong team demonstrates where you are, and where you need to go. Doubt that these young men needed additional boosts to their confidence or egos, so an easy win would have accomplished little. After all of the press clippings up until now, the loss could be a rude reintroduction to reality and a motivator. Bet the coaches are secretly pleased. We shall see. The upside potential is still awesome, but living up to it is not a gimme. You have to want it every day. This is where Pangos will be missed until someone picks up his leadership. Lot of answers for who should that be, some for who it won't be. But who can and will take this team on his shoulders, lead and inspire? And how long will that take? If these talented guys can unite, follow and believe . . . there is little that can be denied them. IF.

DixieZag
11-01-2015, 09:30 AM
Baylor says Wiltjer played mostly the 3 spot...and was off.

As I've been saying since April, I wholeheartedly believe this is a mistake.

Split time, sure, yet forcing the issue to get floor time with the big 3 ain't gonna be pretty.

MAYBE vs WCC teams, but heard our bigs could not defend their SF or PF.

No surprise there...Wiltjer was forced to guard a 6'7", 220lb athletic machine...

Grrr....

Guards were turnover prone but it was the bigs who disappointed vs Baylor, particularly their defense in transition & on the wing.

First, I'll concede you know more basketball than I ever will. But, it would seem to me that you're taking a little more away than seems warranted. One, who is going to guard a 6'7 machine in any circumstances, except another 6'7 machine? Plus, hearing that Edwards played most of the game because Karno had little tank, it doesn't make our 3 headed monster such a monster.

I am very excited that our guards played so well.

Despite my longstanding and long-mocked desire to have our 3 best players on the floor as much as possible, and your fervent belief that it is disastrous to do so, my hope is that Few remains fluid enough throughout the year as to what is working better. Few is loyal - and we are a top 10 program in large part b/c guys want to play for a loyal coach, but when loyalty turns to rigidness, as it occasionally does, then it hurts. It would seem that if there was ever a team that could have 3 starting line ups depending on the opponent, this is it.

A lot is on the shoulders of the upperclassmen to keep a team-first mentality. No one dared cross Kevin or Gary last year with all the talent, they need the same attitude this year.

CDC84
11-01-2015, 09:38 AM
When GU went with the 3 big guys, it sounds as if they employed man defense.

It's only going to work if they zone. A great zone will mitigate KW's defensive issues guarding a quick three.

ProjectMKUltra5
11-01-2015, 09:41 AM
http://memecrunch.com/meme/14N0X/we-talkin-bout-practice/image.png?w=400&c=1

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/f8/f8b00ba3e591b374cea868927f8512ee45d6f5ed3ff4198f2e 3d3a0101f24a24.jpg

CDC84
11-01-2015, 09:45 AM
It was a scrimmage. Also, I don't know how you can make a generic comment like "they need a big scoring wing"?

There's a reason why GU went so hard after Damion Lee in the offseason.

hooter73
11-01-2015, 12:15 PM
Harumph.

Outraged
11-01-2015, 12:54 PM
I hope we use seven starters. I hope we are enough of a team to adjust our starters to best beat our opponents.I cannot see how the same starting five is the best in all situations. We can be different. I think if wiltj was unusually hot that scrimmage we would be praising going big. I am glad Edwards got the playing time because he will be backing up a lot this season. I am encouraged Baylor is as though an opponent we will see this year . This provides great validation for the coaches who can give it to the players and get a buy in on what works and what does not

john montana
11-01-2015, 01:18 PM
When GU went with the 3 big guys, it sounds as if they employed man defense.

It's only going to work if they zone. A great zone will mitigate KW's defensive issues guarding a quick three.

+1

cjm720
11-01-2015, 01:42 PM
Link?


Baylor says Wiltjer played mostly the 3 spot...and was off.

As I've been saying since April, I wholeheartedly believe this is a mistake.

Split time, sure, yet forcing the issue to get floor time with the big 3 ain't gonna be pretty.

MAYBE vs WCC teams, but heard our bigs could not defend their SF or PF.

No surprise there...Wiltjer was forced to guard a 6'7", 220lb athletic machine...

Grrr....

Guards were turnover prone but it was the bigs who disappointed vs Baylor, particularly their defense in transition & on the wing.

spike_jr
11-01-2015, 02:07 PM
When GU went with the 3 big guys, it sounds as if they employed man defense.

It's only going to work if they zone. A great zone will mitigate KW's defensive issues guarding a quick three.

My concern with playing the big 3 is defense and rebounding. It sounds like we played a lot of man defense and were out rebounded which most likely would be exacerbated if we went to a zone D. Personally, I think the line-up is more "cute" and will work well against inferior competition, but will be exposed and exploited against the better teams that loom in March. With so much coaching/teaching/learning the needs to happen in the back court, I would rather see practice being dedicated to the things that are required to beat higher level competition. Plus, I am in favor of playing 2 bigs at a time to promote the offensive spacing that allows each big to thrive as well as allowing the front court to be fresh for a full 40 minutes thus giving us an edge that very few teams can match.

Domas and Shem are both most effective when they are near the basket - both offensively and defensively. And, in order for KW to be most efficient on offense, he needs room to operate both inside and outside. I just don't see the positives of having all 3 of them in the game simultaneously outweighing the negatives. But I do understand why Few has to try.

zag buddy
11-01-2015, 02:55 PM
Could coach Few be playing three bigs because the guards have not jelled so well so far?

strikenowhere
11-01-2015, 03:31 PM
Could coach Few be playing three bigs because the guards have not jelled so well so far?

I have to wonder if egos play a part in this.

cjm720
11-01-2015, 05:31 PM
I have to wonder if egos play a part in this.

Few's or the players? :)

Any coach would love to have this dilemma!!!

basketballzag
11-01-2015, 07:34 PM
Rem reportedly had a triple double in the scrimmage.

2wiceright
11-01-2015, 07:50 PM
I have to wonder if egos play a part in this.

Few doesn't like, let alone adjust the whole style of play, for one or two ego's. He'll do it if he thinks we'll have a formula for winning that some other teams just won't have an answer for. I, for one, remind myself he's said in interviews (no link) he's going to "TRY" to put our best 3 players out there at the same time. Common sense would indicate once Karno recovers to near 100 percent and this "experiment" doesn't work he won't blow a game or two over what he envisions now as a potential best stategy- (the bigs have just a few practices under their belt together). How cool would it be as Option A- and it worked against most teams! If not, we have a lot of guards I know will play -some a lot(and one or two at the 3 that we can only guess at this point). And I think Few is smart enough not to force the issue if the bigs are better off 2 at a time...After all, Fewies a perfectionist that loves to win (not massage egos). I guess we'll see! :confused:

ZagsGoZags
11-02-2015, 02:55 AM
This is the type of loss where we can learn all the lessons, and use it for motivation on the players, without the disadvantage of having a check in the Loss column
for a couple of players it might be the reality wake-up call replacing all the dreams and hype that goes into a summer of media and fan speculation

bartruff1
11-02-2015, 04:01 AM
Might be the best team they will play till the third round in the Dance...assuming they get that far..

Only eleven days to go before we see them for real against Pitt.

Baldwinzag
11-02-2015, 07:11 AM
Only eleven days to go before we see them for real against Pitt.

Quite a few details re: our scrimmage on Baylors' 247 and official message board site.

Same sentiment, Baylor abused us on the boards and in transition; however, as mentioned here, our guards played excellent defense and held their own. By all accounts, our bigs just had a poor game/match-up, while our guards surprised some.

FWIW, Pitt topped Georgetown in their 'secret' scrimmage.

Pitt is supposed to be the most athletic they have been in years, very bouncy frontcourt, some veteran guards. Return 5 players who scored 8+ ppg and add the JUCO nat'l POY as well.

Our bigs need to work on their quickness.

Mike83814
11-02-2015, 08:36 AM
Quite a few details re: our scrimmage on Baylors' 247 and official message board site.

Same sentiment, Baylor abused us on the boards and in transition; however, as mentioned here, our guards played excellent defense and held their own. By all accounts, our bigs just had a poor game/match-up, while our guards surprised some.

FWIW, Pitt topped Georgetown in their 'secret' scrimmage.

Pitt is supposed to be the most athletic they have been in years, very bouncy frontcourt, some veteran guards. Return 5 players who scored 8+ ppg and add the JUCO nat'l POY as well.

Our bigs need to work on their quickness.

This gives me a TON of hope for the season. I strongly believe the bigs will come into their own within the first game or two, and really look like the future pros they are. Having some strong, athletic guards on the defensive side of things is going to go a long way to help with the transition from GB, KP and BW.

hooter73
11-02-2015, 09:00 AM
Ok, heres my take. Karno was down. That changes a lot of how the floor looks to have our senior anchor out of the game. It was a scrimmage to see what some things look like when you are playing guys who are not intimately familiar with the the playing styles and sets. that the guards held their own should be reason enough to celebrate as they are the big question mark.

As to KW, he was a spot up wing at KU and left. Transformed his game to be a power forward, excelled at it, and now were going to move him away from that back to trying to be a wing? Just doesnt make good math to me and I have a feeling it will be a short lived experiment, hopefully not at the cost of him getting a POY, drafted, etc...

bigblahla
11-02-2015, 10:00 AM
Might be the best team they will play till the third round in the Dance...assuming they get that far..

Only eleven days to go before we see them for real against Pitt.

bart...IMO you could be right ol buddy...Baylor ain't chopped liver...

Go!! Zags!!!

Reborn
11-02-2015, 10:57 AM
None of us saw the scrimmage. No one has seen stats. All we know is that we got outrebounded, and KW didn't shoot well. I'll wait to see how things go down the road. There really isn't anything to help me make a sound judgement. I'm glad the Zags got to play a team as good as Baylor. This will help down the road. I always favor playing tough teams in non-conference, win or lose; and especially when it comes to just scrimmaging. I BELIEVE that the Zags have great coaches, and I am not worried a bit about the outcome (if you can call it that) of the scrimmage. Kyle Wiltjer will be fine.

jbslicer
11-02-2015, 11:48 AM
Scrimmage scores mean nothing. They are labs for coaches. Some quarters are zone only and substitutions are not game like. Many unlimited TO From Seth Greenberg on Twitter. Some of you folks are really overreacting.

DukeSilver
11-02-2015, 11:55 AM
Scrimmage scores mean nothing. They are labs for coaches. Some quarters are zone only and substitutions are not game like. Many unlimited TO From Seth Greenberg on Twitter. Some of you folks are really overreacting.

+1

CDC84
11-02-2015, 11:59 AM
What's odd is that Gonzaga usually wins these secret scrimmages.....sometimes quite easily.

MileHigh
11-03-2015, 06:06 AM
3 alpha dogs at the 3/4 and all of them feel they should be a starter. Sabonis, frosh of the year in WCC and projected as the higher draft pick this summer so he naturally feels he should be a starter. KW is preseason all-american and started last year so he feels he is a starter. Big K is a two year starter and the best low block player on the team so he feels he should start.

They are all right, so who do you sit? Whoever doesn't start is not going to be happy. Sure, they will play hard and do what they can with their minutes, but you never know what the residual effect will be, both on court and in locker room. Starting all 3 is good for the egos, but if it does'nt work well on the court you have to rotate a wing in there at first media TO. It will be interesting to see how Few plays his hand with this situation,but it is a good problem to have.

vandalzag
11-03-2015, 06:27 AM
Well that's all she wrote for this season, no need to move forward(thankfully it will free up time to prepare for the new Indoor Football Season). Since these scrimmages always predict the success of each years team we need to start thinking about next year. Obviously that means sitting KW, Karno, and the other seniors since they will not be here next year. L Starting 5 of DS,Perk,Silas,Edwards, Alberts gets the whole year to get better. And speaking of getting better is it time for Lloyd to step up and take the reigns. I mean if Few can't get deliver a pre-pre-pre-season victory how can we expect him to deliver a national championship. It has been a good run.