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ZagNative
10-12-2015, 10:17 AM
Wiltjer was previously named the CBS Sports POY, and here he is #4 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25336439/cbs-sports-top-100-and-one-college-basketball-players-for-2015-16):

As a reminder, this list isn't about MVPs, MOPs or overall value to a team. This is different from, say, our All-American teams (which are about value and overall numbers -- on winning teams -- as anything else). This ranking is about basic talent and ability at the college level. How we see them now; how we think they project and compare to all other players for the entire season. We're not looking ahead to what they'll be in the NBA or anything like that.

Think of it like this: When you play pickup basketball, and you pick teams, you're going with the guys as soon as possible that you think are the best. You're picking the players with the most talent. That's at the heart of how this list is made. You're gonna love some of these picks and hate some others. We're going to be SO RIGHT about a lot of these guys and SO WRONG about a few. That's the fun!

Without further ado, here it is, our 2015-16 edition. These are the 100 (and one) best players in college basketball:
4. KYLE WILTJER

GONZAGA BULLDOGS

Senior | Forward

Wiltjer is an amazing offensive player who averaged 16.8 points and 6.2 rebounds last season while shooting 54.0 percent from the field, 46.6 percent from 3-point range and 78.9 percent from the free throw line. The Kentucky transfer is the CBS Sports Preseason National Player of the Year and more than capable of leading Gonzaga to another WCC title. -- GP
31. DOMANTAS SABONIS, Gonzaga

Sabonis is probably the nation's most talented reserve. The 6-foot-10 forward -- and son of NBA great Arvydas Sabonis -- averaged 9.7 points and 7.1 rebounds for Gonzaga in only 21.6 minutes per game, meaning he could easily develop into a double-double guy for the Zags. -- GP

Also of interest:
26. KYLE COLLINSWORTH, BYU

Collinsworth is versatile and not given enough credit for how resilient he his, regardless of opponent. He's also old, which helps. The BYU senior is now 24. He's a 6-foot-6 dish man. Collinsworth is one of the best passing wings in the country. Wonder if his assist rate (36.3 percent last season) will go down without Tyler Haws. -- MN

27. NIC MOORE, SMU

Last year, when we put Moore No. 84, my colleague Sam Vecenie wrote, "Depending on how the Mustangs' season goes, Moore could be a dark horse candidate for AAC player of the year." Dark horse? Hardly. We goofed. Moore should have been top-50, as he was the most important player for the Ponies. He'll play out his senior season without a chance at being in the Dance. Consider this a small consolation prize, Nic. -- MN

maynard g krebs
10-12-2015, 11:46 AM
Thanks for the link, as always. One thing stood out to me- Tarczewski at 68 and no PK. Ridiculous.

seacatfan
10-12-2015, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the link, as always. One thing stood out to me- Tarczewski at 68 and no PK. Ridiculous.

Yeah...having watched both play quite a bit, have to agree with you.

That list, like all lists, is fairly wacky. A whole bunch of freshman that have done exactly nothing so far on a college basketball court. Including quite a few that are way up the list. A lot of conjecturing or projecting. Also some role players thus far in their careers being projected really high.

sittingon50
10-12-2015, 02:18 PM
Thanks for the link, as always. One thing stood out to me- Tarczewski at 68 and no PK. Ridiculous.

Agree. They've gone head to head 3 x's & IMO it's 2-0-1 for Shem.

seacatfan
10-12-2015, 03:09 PM
Agree. They've gone head to head 3 x's & IMO it's 2-0-1 for Shem.

3x? I thought it was only 2 so far, this year will be #3. Clear huge advantage to Karno in the '14 Tourney Game, still advantage Karno in last year's regular season matchup but not by as significant of a margin. Am I missing a game? The Battle in Seattle game was during Pangos and Bell's freshman year, so no Karno or Zeus at that point.

krii
10-13-2015, 12:39 AM
TBH Karnowski is just soooo under the radar before this season. KW and DS both have been hyped by national media, both appeared on draft mocks for 2016 (NBADraft & DraftExpress) etc whilst PK is rarely mentioned as "the third, quite good big in the Zags' Big 3". It's quite weird. I mean - both DS and KW ARE one of the best players in NCAA but PK should be on that list as well.

I have to say that I am kind of shocked, especially after such a tournament (Eurobasket). I would say that a 7"1' center, that averages 11/6/1/1 in 25 min in one of the best teams in the league; who plays his best games against the best players in the league AND dominant international players (last EB game against Pau Gasol and a couple of years ago vs. Valanciunas) would be at least mentioned as one of the best 100 players in the NCAA. Now, I'm not sure whether I personally over-hyped him (still, I'm his homer;-) ) or is it just one of those players that have to be drafted in late 2nd round and play a few games with the NBA team to prove his skills.

EDIT:
WOW. I just checked his advanced stats and they are even more impressive than I though ... ORtg is 113.9 whilst DRtg is 93.1. Some other (like WS etc.) are quite impressive as well but ... if he can translate those stats to NBA, let's say produce something about 110 / 95 he would be a monster!

ZagaZags
10-13-2015, 12:50 AM
TBH Karnowski is just soooo under the radar before this season. KW and DS both have been hyped by national media, both appeared on draft mocks for 2016 (NBADraft & DraftExpress) etc whilst PK is rarely mentioned as "the third, quite good big in the Zags' Big 3". It's quite weird. I mean - both DS and KW ARE one of the best players in NCAA but PK should be on that list as well.

I have to say that I am kind of shocked, especially after such a tournament (Eurobasket). I would say that a 7"1' center, that averages 11/6/1/1 in 25 min in one of the best teams in the league; who plays his best games against the best players in the league AND dominant international players (last EB game against Pau Gasol and a couple of years ago vs. Valanciunas) would be at least mentioned as one of the best 100 players in the NCAA. Now, I'm not sure whether I personally over-hyped him (still, I'm his homer;-) ) or is it just one of those players that have to be drafted in late 2nd round and play a few games with the NBA team to prove his skills.

It wouldn't surprise me if Karnowski made an All-American list at the end of the season. Karno will have a huge season.

Jstock12
10-13-2015, 01:25 AM
Honestly, Karno might be Gonzaga's best player. He's the best all-around player for sure.

ZagaZags
10-13-2015, 01:35 AM
Honestly, Karno might be Gonzaga's best player. He's the best all-around player for sure.

He has amazing passing skills for a big.

DixieZag
10-13-2015, 03:46 AM
TBH Karnowski is just soooo under the radar before this season. KW and DS both have been hyped by national media, both appeared on draft mocks for 2016 (NBADraft & DraftExpress) etc whilst PK is rarely mentioned as "the third, quite good big in the Zags' Big 3". It's quite weird. I mean - both DS and KW ARE one of the best players in NCAA but PK should be on that list as well.

I have to say that I am kind of shocked, especially after such a tournament (Eurobasket). I would say that a 7"1' center, that averages 11/6/1/1 in 25 min in one of the best teams in the league; who plays his best games against the best players in the league AND dominant international players (last EB game against Pau Gasol and a couple of years ago vs. Valanciunas) would be at least mentioned as one of the best 100 players in the NCAA. Now, I'm not sure whether I personally over-hyped him (still, I'm his homer;-) ) or is it just one of those players that have to be drafted in late 2nd round and play a few games with the NBA team to prove his skills.

EDIT:
WOW. I just checked his advanced stats and they are even more impressive than I though ... ORtg is 113.9 whilst DRtg is 93.1. Some other (like WS etc.) are quite impressive as well but ... if he can translate those stats to NBA, let's say produce something about 110 / 95 he would be a monster!

Some of that might be from the reluctance to put 3 Zags on the list, there are lots of little nuances to these things and they might have just had doubts about putting a third guy, without all that much having to do with how good a player he actually is. Take both Wiltjer and Sabonis off, and I bet Karno is up around where Tarczewski is or a little higher.

It is inexplicable in any other way. I wouldn't be too worried about him flying under the radar, or overlooked by anyone of any actual import. In fact, I think of all of them, PK might scare teams the most because they really don't have an answer for him in any way. Theoretically, Wiltjer can just be blanketed and he isn't that good defensively. DS hasn't shown much inclination to drive to the basket or shoot an outside shot, but as a center, PK just can't be stopped in many games and they can't game plan around him - can't double or triple him, too many outside shooters, can't go straight up, and defensively he'll stand in with anyone.

If he can get his FT shooting up to high 60s or 70, that probably adds 2-3 pts per game and that would make the stats a little easier to eyeball and see him as a top 50, never mind top 100. I wouldn't give it much thought. If our uniform said "Kansas" or "Kentucky"/ "Dook" or whatever, he'd be 25th, that's just the way coverage works here (you probably know that as well as anyone).

No one who knows anything is underrating him. As far as NBA, that's a whole different game and who knows what they make their decisions by.

BULLDOG#1
10-13-2015, 07:13 AM
Karnowski should be on this list, no doubt. I hope he uses this snub as motivation.

hooter73
10-13-2015, 07:19 AM
Some of that might be from the reluctance to put 3 Zags on the list, there are lots of little nuances to these things and they might have just had doubts about putting a third guy, without all that much having to do with how good a player he actually is. Take both Wiltjer and Sabonis off, and I bet Karno is up around where Tarczewski is or a little higher.


Thats a good point. It wouldnt stop the list makers if these three were on KU or Duke, but it makes sense for us.

The only way to counter Karno is get him in foul trouble from smaller, faster forwards/centers. As a polished (polished... Polish... HA!) senior though, he's going to be even more aware and able to avoid a silly reach in or slap. If his free throws are anywhere near 70% he should be averaging close to 14 PPG. That may be a big key in how far he and we go this year and beyond.

sittingon50
10-13-2015, 07:36 AM
3x? I thought it was only 2 so far, this year will be #3. Clear huge advantage to Karno in the '14 Tourney Game, still advantage Karno in last year's regular season matchup but not by as significant of a margin. Am I missing a game? The Battle in Seattle game was during Pangos and Bell's freshman year, so no Karno or Zeus at that point.

My mistake, seacat. For some reason I had thought they matched up in the Battle in Seattle but research indicates I was incorrect. Time kinda' flies at my age!

exclusivelee
10-13-2015, 08:53 AM
Karnowski has played significantly well in the NCAA tournament and in massive away games. Check his outputs 2x vs Arizona, 2x vs UCLA, @ West Virginia... Completely agree that it's a mistake for all these writers to rank Tarczewski ahead of Karnowski

maynard g krebs
10-13-2015, 09:43 AM
Lindy's mag lists top 25 players at each position, and if memory serves, they listed Wiltjer as the second best SF, Sabonis 4th best PF and PK as 5th best center. I may have mixed those up but I think it's right. I think Dixie's right that they didn't want to put 3 Zag bigs on the list.

As to PK's free throw %, at 50% he was making about 3 out of 6 per game. 67% would be 4 out of 6, for one more ppg on his average. People tend to exaggerate that, though of course it's significant in the games where he's off and goes 2/7.

MDABE80
10-13-2015, 09:59 AM
I hope Karno's worked on his FT's. I'm thinking it'll be "Hack a Karno" this year. He's just so much better since his Summer play.

krii
10-16-2015, 01:42 AM
Wow guys, now I see that I'm not alone. Thanks!


It wouldn't surprise me if Karnowski made an All-American list at the end of the season. Karno will have a huge season.
It would be great! It would certainly help him boost popularity.


I hope Karno's worked on his FT's. I'm thinking it'll be "Hack a Karno" this year. He's just so much better since his Summer play.
Well - during Eurobasket he had 8 FT and missed 3 of them. That's about 63%-ish. In the previous games he went 14/24 which is 0.583 (58%). I think his ratio this season will be 60%^, however I'm pretty sure he will work on it to boost it to 65-70% within next two years.

I like to compare him to Marcin Gortat as they are both traditional bigs from Poland;-) Marcin was VERY irregular with his FT shooting during his first years but now he came to regular 65-70%. Karno is way more talented so I think it would take him only 2 years to have the same regularity. High 60's/low 70's should be enough to consider him good at FTs and to not be afraid of "Hack a Shem-q" tactics ;-)

Reborn
10-16-2015, 05:29 AM
Wiltjer was previously named the CBS Sports POY, and here he is #4 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25336439/cbs-sports-top-100-and-one-college-basketball-players-for-2015-16):


Also of interest:

Congrats to Kyle. Zags continue to show that you can become a first team All-American at Gonzaga. Recruiting is at a high right now. keep it going, Zags!!!

DixieZag
10-16-2015, 08:02 AM
Wow guys, now I see that I'm not alone. Thanks!


It would be great! It would certainly help him boost popularity.


Well - during Eurobasket he had 8 FT and missed 3 of them. That's about 63%-ish. In the previous games he went 14/24 which is 0.583 (58%). I think his ratio this season will be 60%^, however I'm pretty sure he will work on it to boost it to 65-70% within next two years.

I like to compare him to Marcin Gortat as they are both traditional bigs from Poland;-) Marcin was VERY irregular with his FT shooting during his first years but now he came to regular 65-70%. Karno is way more talented so I think it would take him only 2 years to have the same regularity. High 60's/low 70's should be enough to consider him good at FTs and to not be afraid of "Hack a Shem-q" tactics ;-)

Given the volume of touches Shem gets, and the number of fouls he draws, if he can somehow shoot 65-70%, I would think that would equate to at least 2 more pts per game every game, which would be huge for him personally and us.

maynard g krebs
10-16-2015, 11:30 AM
Given the volume of touches Shem gets, and the number of fouls he draws, if he can somehow shoot 65-70%, I would think that would equate to at least 2 more pts per game every game, which would be huge for him personally and us.

Nope. If he averages 6 ft attempts per game again, that's one more ppg, exactly.

NumberCruncher
10-16-2015, 11:47 AM
Nope. If he averages 6 ft attempts per game again, that's one more ppg, exactly.

6 ft attempts per game? It was actually less than 3 last year. In 13/14, it was 5. And he was getting more touches in 14/15 - his shot rate went up and his assist rate went way up.

For whatever reason, the refs changed their emphasis regarding fouls called on players guarding Shem. If he had gone to the line at the same rate as the year before, he would have had 72 more ft attempts last year. 72 Bizarre.

maynard g krebs
10-16-2015, 11:51 AM
6 ft attempts per game? It was actually less than 3 last year. In 13/14, it was 5. And he was getting more touches in 14/15 - his shot rate went up and his assist rate went way up.

For whatever reason, the refs changed their emphasis regarding fouls called on players guarding Shem. If he had gone to the line at the same rate as the year before, he would have had 72 more ft attempts last year. 72 Bizarre.

Going off memory; at one point in a previous season he was averaging 6 per game, and I did the math on this. Must have been midseason his soph year.

Point was that people often assume that he'd average 2,3,5 more ppg if he upped his ft% by 15 or 20. I said it's one ppg, but you've shown it's actually less. Always appreciate your accuracy; thanks.

maynard g krebs
10-16-2015, 11:53 AM
6 ft attempts per game? It was actually less than 3 last year. In 13/14, it was 5. And he was getting more touches in 14/15 - his shot rate went up and his assist rate went way up.

For whatever reason, the refs changed their emphasis regarding fouls called on players guarding Shem. If he had gone to the line at the same rate as the year before, he would have had 72 more ft attempts last year. 72 Bizarre.

Going off memory; at one point in a previous season he was averaging 6 per game, and I did the math on this. Must have been midseason his soph year. I used 6 as a high end est, to show that even at that rate it's only one more ppg if he shoots 67.

Point was that people often assume that he'd average 2,3,5 more ppg if he upped his ft% by 15 or 20. I said it's one ppg, but you've shown it's actually less. Always appreciate your accuracy; thanks.

jazzdelmar
10-16-2015, 12:24 PM
Pac Ten net had basketball preseason review yesterday. Kaleb was interviewed, a very engaging and smart young man. Most of the kids were. Great to see Lavin back but I don't fathom why Kevin Oneill is still finding work in the sport. And Don Maclean is an arse, but a funny one. Bobby Hurley is gonna build a giant and then, poof, will be gone.

DixieZag
10-16-2015, 12:43 PM
6 ft attempts per game? It was actually less than 3 last year. In 13/14, it was 5. And he was getting more touches in 14/15 - his shot rate went up and his assist rate went way up.

For whatever reason, the refs changed their emphasis regarding fouls called on players guarding Shem. If he had gone to the line at the same rate as the year before, he would have had 72 more ft attempts last year. 72 Bizarre.

If you told me, I have $1 Billion dollars if you can just answer one question correctly for me:

What is the correct number of FTA per game by Karno last year: A) 3 or B) 13

I would scream B! and be reaching out for the money with the biggest, and apparently, stupidest, grin on my face.

NumberCruncher
10-16-2015, 12:50 PM
If you told me, I have $1 Billion dollars if you can just answer one question correctly for me:

What is the correct number of FTA per game by Karno last year: A) 3 or B) 13

I would scream B! and be reaching out for the money with the biggest, and apparently, stupidest, grin on my face.

Ha, ha! I guess you owe me a $Billion. :D