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CDC84
09-01-2015, 08:53 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13556997/coaches-prefer-officiating-centralized-espn-survey-shows

I've been saying the same thing for years. The only way to truly better college basketball officiating is get the conferences (or groups of conferences) out of it entirely. It needs to be entirely coordinated at a national level.

primal23
09-01-2015, 10:25 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13556997/coaches-prefer-officiating-centralized-espn-survey-shows

I've been saying the same thing for years. The only way to truly better college basketball officiating is get the conferences (or groups of conferences) out of it entirely. It needs to be entirely coordinated at a national level.

Would love to have more of the east coast or big 10 refs. They actually allow physical play, west coast you look at another player it's a foul.

maynard g krebs
09-01-2015, 01:42 PM
Would love to have more of the east coast or big 10 refs. They actually allow physical play, west coast you look at another player it's a foul.

Totally disagree. Physical play (body slamming in the post, knocking guys off their cuts, hand checking) has made the game unwatchable compared to the high scoring, free flowing play that started to disappear in the '90's.

They're worried about the decline in scoring, and going about it the wrong way with shortening the shot clock, which will just make it harder for offenses. Season before last, they started enforcing the rules in November, and there were a bunch of teams averaging 90ppg and eighty-some averaging over 80ppg. Then, inexplicably, they stopped enforcing the
"new rules" (really old rules) and scoring dropped again.

I used to watch random games from all over the country. Now I watch a couple minutes if i don't have as special interest in one of the teams, and it's usually so dull I turn it off.

We need a national standard for sure. But a point of emphasis has to be elimination of overly physical play, or ratings and attendance will drop.

Bogozags
09-01-2015, 04:52 PM
Totally disagree. Physical play (body slamming in the post, knocking guys off their cuts, hand checking) has made the game unwatchable compared to the high scoring, free flowing play that started to disappear in the '90's.

They're worried about the decline in scoring, and going about it the wrong way with shortening the shot clock, which will just make it harder for offenses. Season before last, they started enforcing the rules in November, and there were a bunch of teams averaging 90ppg and eighty-some averaging over 80ppg. Then, inexplicably, they stopped enforcing the
"new rules" (really old rules) and scoring dropped again.

I used to watch random games from all over the country. Now I watch a couple minutes if i don't have as special interest in one of the teams, and it's usually so dull I turn it off.

We need a national standard for sure. But a point of emphasis has to be elimination of overly physical play, or ratings and attendance will drop.

Well said! I feel the same way when watching non-GU games...living on the East Coast ACC/SEC games are pushed down your throat...and the games are called differently in both leagues...

It will be hard to obtain consistency regardless of a national or regional organization...I believe officials have a method/philosophy of calling games and that I think is going to be the issue...a block to one official might well be a charge by another...

I just want them to call the last four minutes the same way they called the first four minutes...fingers are crossed!

23zagmd
09-02-2015, 08:13 AM
I'll chime in here since I did on a previous officiating thread....

This thread is about two separate issues. 1. How the game is officiated, night in and night out? 2. How assignment of officials is handled in college basketball?

I'll start by saying that I don't know how every conference is currently assigned and if there are conferences that are assigned by the same person/group.

I will say this:
a. do we really want the NCAA with assigning authority over all games? Being the 7th or 8th ranked conference, we are going to get pretty far down the totem pole with experience referees for WCC games. i.e. we become a low priority! Ask Boise or TCU how being a low priority works for them in football at the NCAA level?

b. we are getting the best referees in the West. We routinely get the Greg Nixon's, Chris Rastetter's, Jimmy Cassas level officials for GU games. They don't come much better and when those guys are running a crew, I guarantee that there is not a better officiated game happening in the country at that moment. You don't get Sweet 16 and E8 games not being in the top 30 of your profession.

c. I think if this was to happen, scheduling and travel almost become impossible. These guys don't travel in crews like the old NBA days. Even the NBA has gone to a more regionalized assigning system. We are talking about roughly 140 games 2 nights a week. That's 320 officials, plus back ups, scheduling for sick days, travel conflicts, etc. So call it a pool of 425 officials? The NBA has 64 officials to cover there games, much easier to decentralize. I'm not sure you'd see an ACC official in Spokane if they did it anyway!

d. I agree with the governing body but even then I'm not sure how that works. I can't imagine the infrastructure needed to handle all the game film, revue, discipline, clinics, seminars, etc. It might start to look like a federal government department like the DOE!

These are just a few of my thoughts on the centralize/decentralize issue.

Now for the tone of how the games are refereed....crews NEVER referee games the same way. GU/St. Mary's is not going to get refereed the same way as GU/UCSB. Maybe closer to Mich/Mich State! Point is, there are so many factors that go into the pre-game and how a game is officiated. Rivalry games are done differently for example!

I think what everyone would like to see is more consistency in how the rules are applied and I will tell you that all referee organizations are working on that. That is why we have points of emphasis every year. Hand checking last year, Verticality this year.....along with a lot of rule changes. The point is....there is a national standard, it's called the Rule Book and of course the rules are interpreted differently by different officials.

The rule for speeding is 65mph, in most places, in Seattle that means drive 60 in the left lane. I interpret that rule as up to 70mph i'm ok not to get a ticket, some think 75, the HWPman may feel 66! It's impossible to have uniformity and quite frankly as an official I want my partner to have a different opinion on a play. It helps me become a better official. But he has to back my call or the whole thing starts to unravel. 90% of the time, when officials are huddled on the court during a game, that is exactly what is being discussed. "how as a group do we do a better job handling a situation or a call?"

Just because there is contact....does it mean there is a foul? Was the contact illegal? Is the team that created the contact down by 20 and stuff ain't goin their way but it wasn't illegal contact? I know people don't want to hear this stuff, but that is how the game is officiated. The block/charge is a perfect example, whose call is it, have we given 5 straight charges to the home team, ....the rule book is pretty clear on what legal guarding position is! Should be easy to officiate, right? NOT....still the hardest call in the game, night in and night out...

having a Standard, that some of you talk about isn't going to change this stuff...

LongIslandZagFan
09-02-2015, 10:15 AM
All I ask, and I am sure most of the coaches in the NCAA ask, is that a game played in MSG against an SEC/ACC/B1G/Big 12 team is called the same was a game at McKeon or War Memorial Gym is. Simple as that. The inherent problem across the board is having to adjust to reffing differences. We can debate the way those rules are enforced, but until it is centralized... well there isn't much room for debate as some conferences are just plain reffed differently, which should not be. Centralize it and you can start defining the standards across the board.

CDC84
09-02-2015, 11:33 AM
The only way to make sure "points of emphasis" are emphasized from the start of the season until the national title game is to have a centralized coordinator of officials. If they want to "regionalize" the officials to make travel easier, that's fine. But the conferences need to be out of it, period. It's the only way to have consistency across the board, the only way to totally get rid of poorly rated officials who right now just get recycled into other conferences, and the only way to reduce patronage between officiating coordinators (who are generally ex-officials) and officials who are currently working games.

I truly believe if we did this, we would see better officiating throughout college basketball, and less legitimate complaints from fans.....although there will always be complaining. It's the nature of the biz.

Once a new system were put in place, and the quality of officiating enhanced, I would also consider rewarding the best "crews" to work NCAA tournament games instead of assigning crews which consist of "all star" officials from the across the country who are not used to working with each other.

23zagmd
09-02-2015, 01:53 PM
Hmm...

LIZF....how do you propose to ensure games are called the same way? are you talking about physicality?

CDC....agreed on the POE stuff and official ratings. there has to be some oversight and there currently is....all games get reviewed by conference crews and complaints and grievances are vetted through processes set up by conferences. I think you are right in saying that one governing body would be great. I'm just not sure it is feasible with the size of the NCAA. One thing that you always hope to do is set a tone with officiating a game a certain way. I just don't think it is possible to say there is a format for refereeing every game the same.