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View Full Version : Epic Mark Few, GU "domination" passages in this Gregg Marshall article.



GoZags
08-18-2015, 11:32 AM
On my phone and can't "quote" a few of the classic lines about Mark Few and Gonzaga DOMINATING UW and WSU in every possible way ... but wanted to share the article.

Any reader/poster .... feel free to quote appropriate passages. GoZags

http://bustingbrackets.com/2015/08/15/wichita-state-shockers-must-take-advantage-of-possible-final-season-under-gregg-marshall/

gonzagafan62
08-18-2015, 11:44 AM
Mark Few is the MAN in the Pacific Northwest, and his Bulldogs are the top program in the area. Just as Wichita State shares their state with two major conference rivals (Kansas and Kansas State), Gonzaga deals with Washington and Washington State. However, Few has gotten to the point where he routinely out recruits his big brothers in the state.

Even into Northern California and the Rockies, the reach of Gonzaga has historically extended further than the Pac-12 and Mountain West teams that reside their (Cuonzo Martin‘s recent recruiting class at Cal is a sign that he may be the person to challenge Gonzaga’s dominance on the trial). Few has also established his program in the international basketball community as well.Lastly, it can’t be underestimated that Gonzaga is in close proximity to local high school basketball hot beds in Oakland, Portland, and (most importantly) Seattle.

These are all positive factors that are absent from Marshall’s situation at Wichita State.

The Shockers share the state of Kansas with two major conference programs that feature rabid basketball fan bases. While an elite in-state talent will possibly pick Gonzaga over Washington, there’s no chance that an All-American from Topeka picks the Shockers over the Jayhawks.

There you go

CDC84
08-18-2015, 11:59 AM
The appeal of the Indiana job just isn't what it used to be. The administration, boosters and some of the fan base deserve much of the blame.

seacatfan
08-18-2015, 12:03 PM
The above quoted material by gonzagafan62 seems like a stretch. Gonzaga does not outrecruit UW for instate talent as is much discussed on this site. Most of the high school talent is in or near Seattle, and we all know how that goes. Also, while Cal had an outstanding recruiting class this last year, Arizona has been recruiting very well as long as Sean Miller has been there. UCLA has had some good classes under Alford and certainly prior to that under Howland. San Diego St. is a well documented thorn in Gonzaga's side that has gone after many of the same recruits and won the battle several times. While things are obviously rolling at GU, it's just not reality to say they are "dominating on the recruiting trail" as the article claims. They've plucked a bunch of gems from Europe and Canada. Going head to head against the blue bloods and factory schools for US high school talent they are in a similar position to Wichita St., although a little more successful. They certainly get top 100 players (it's kinda dumbfounding how well Marshall has done at Wichita St. considering the lack of "talent" at least according to the recruiting gurus), but top 25-30 guys have been few and far between.

seacatfan
08-18-2015, 12:08 PM
The appeal of the Indiana job just isn't what it used to be. The administration, boosters and some of the fan base deserve much of the blame.

Could it be a bit like UCLA where the fans are all waiting for the next Wooden, which is never going to happen? There have been what, 4 coaches since Knight (including an interim coach if I'm counting correctly--Dakich, Davis, Sampson, Crean)? Clearly none of them have been the right guy. I agree the job isn't as alluring as it used to be. Indiana is still considered one of the elite schools in college bball history but clearly they haven't been on the level of Duke, UK, KU and Carolina for quite a while now. Almost seemed like Crean was going to turn the corner, but he had some talented teams he couldn't get to the Final 4 and they've clearly gone way backwards the last several years.

CDC84
08-18-2015, 12:35 PM
Could it be a bit like UCLA where the fans are all waiting for the next Wooden, which is never going to happen?

Except at Indiana it's even worse because the fan base and boosters are all passionate about the game and the program. It's the only game in town.

Marshall strikes me as guy who might stay at WSU for the rest of his career. The pay raise this offseason may have sealed the deal. It is well known throughout college basketball that he has an abrasive personality. I don't know how well that's going to work at jobs that require more than just coaching and recruiting.

GoZags
08-18-2015, 01:08 PM
The above quoted material by gonzagafan62 seems like a stretch. Gonzaga does not outrecruit UW for instate talent as is much discussed on this site. Most of the high school talent is in or near Seattle, and we all know how that goes. Also, while Cal had an outstanding recruiting class this last year, Arizona has been recruiting very well as long as Sean Miller has been there. UCLA has had some good classes under Alford and certainly prior to that under Howland. San Diego St. is a well documented thorn in Gonzaga's side that has gone after many of the same recruits and won the battle several times. While things are obviously rolling at GU, it's just not reality to say they are "dominating on the recruiting trail" as the article claims. They've plucked a bunch of gems from Europe and Canada. Going head to head against the blue bloods and factory schools for US high school talent they are in a similar position to Wichita St., although a little more successful. They certainly get top 100 players (it's kinda dumbfounding how well Marshall has done at Wichita St. considering the lack of "talent" at least according to the recruiting gurus), but top 25-30 guys have been few and far between.

You know what they say about "perception" ......

TexasZagFan
08-18-2015, 01:20 PM
Except at Indiana it's even worse because the fan base and boosters are all passionate about the game and the program. It's the only game in town.

Marshall strikes me as guy who might stay at WSU for the rest of his career. The pay raise this offseason may have sealed the deal. It is well known throughout college basketball that he has an abrasive personality. I don't know how well that's going to work at jobs that require more than just coaching and recruiting.

I wonder if Gregg has had any conversations with Dan Monson?

kitzbuel
08-18-2015, 01:27 PM
You know what they say about "perception" ......

Yup. And I bet there are a lot of 'factory schools' who would take GU's roster and slate of incoming recruits.

GoZags
08-18-2015, 01:47 PM
Yup. And I bet there are a lot of 'factory schools' who would take GU's roster and slate of incoming recruits.

As well as Gonzaga's actual on the floor results the last couple of decades ...

ProjectMKUltra5
08-18-2015, 02:13 PM
The above quoted material by gonzagafan62 seems like a stretch. Gonzaga does not outrecruit UW for instate talent as is much discussed on this site. Most of the high school talent is in or near Seattle, and we all know how that goes. Also, while Cal had an outstanding recruiting class this last year, Arizona has been recruiting very well as long as Sean Miller has been there. UCLA has had some good classes under Alford and certainly prior to that under Howland. San Diego St. is a well documented thorn in Gonzaga's side that has gone after many of the same recruits and won the battle several times. While things are obviously rolling at GU, it's just not reality to say they are "dominating on the recruiting trail" as the article claims. They've plucked a bunch of gems from Europe and Canada. Going head to head against the blue bloods and factory schools for US high school talent they are in a similar position to Wichita St., although a little more successful. They certainly get top 100 players (it's kinda dumbfounding how well Marshall has done at Wichita St. considering the lack of "talent" at least according to the recruiting gurus), but top 25-30 guys have been few and far between.

+1

Some might get defensive about this post but it's spot on. Gonzaga is damn good at picking and choosing it's players from all over but to say we're dominating any particular area in the states is false imo. If we go head to head with UW for a kid from Seattle then UW is likely the favorite. If we go head to head with UCLA for a kid from California then UCLA is likely the favorite. Same with the state of Arizona and Sean Miller.

And again, some might take this as an insult but I look at it the other way. Gonzaga has already come so far and done so much and yet there's still so much more, so many more possibilities. Still so much untapped potential.

sittingon50
08-18-2015, 02:25 PM
+1

Some might get defensive about this post but it's spot on. Gonzaga is damn good at picking and choosing it's players from all over but to say we're dominating any particular area in the states is false imo. If we go head to head with UW for a kid from Seattle then UW is likely the favorite. If we go head to head with UCLA for a kid from California then UCLA is likely the favorite. Same with the state of Arizona and Sean Miller.

And again, some might take this as an insult but I look at it the other way. Gonzaga has already come so far and done so much and yet there's still so much more, so many more possibilities. Still so much untapped potential.

Seems to me like you've made a pretty accurate statement, Ultra.

seacatfan
08-18-2015, 02:25 PM
As well as Gonzaga's actual on the floor results the last couple of decades ...

I wasn't commenting in any way on GU's on the floor results. Obviously that has been stellar for a long period of time, and the Zags are by far and away the best basketball program in the State of Washington. But the author of the referenced article suggests the Zags are the dominant recruiting school in the West. Does anyone believe that? GU has lost many recruits over the years not only to the upper tier Pac 12 schools, but also mediocre teams or even cellar dwellers. There is a fairly recent thread about how many Seattle area prepsters opt to play for UW, despite their mediocrity, rather than going to GU. We all know this, I'm not making it up. And there's San Diego St. in addition to all of the Pac 12 schools.

GU will have a very talented roster this season and should have an excellent season. Perkins was a huge get recently (and Collins but he's still in HS). Much of the rest of the roster is made up of transfers and international players. It remains to be seen exactly what GU has in Melson and Alberts. 2 more transfers will be eligible in '16-'17 that should be major contributors. This is not a roster that is built largely with highly touted US high school recruits that committed to GU initially without going somewhere else first. Can anyone really argue with that?

GoZags
08-18-2015, 03:08 PM
I wasn't commenting in any way on GU's on the floor results. Obviously that has been stellar for a long period of time, and the Zags are by far and away the best basketball program in the State of Washington. But the author of the referenced article suggests the Zags are the dominant recruiting school in the West. Does anyone believe that? GU has lost many recruits over the years not only to the upper tier Pac 12 schools, but also mediocre teams or even cellar dwellers. There is a fairly recent thread about how many Seattle area prepsters opt to play for UW, despite their mediocrity, rather than going to GU. We all know this, I'm not making it up. And there's San Diego St. in addition to all of the Pac 12 schools.

GU will have a very talented roster this season and should have an excellent season. Perkins was a huge get recently (and Collins but he's still in HS). Much of the rest of the roster is made up of transfers and international players. It remains to be seen exactly what GU has in Melson and Alberts. 2 more transfers will be eligible in '16-'17 that should be major contributors. This is not a roster that is built largely with highly touted US high school recruits that committed to GU initially without going somewhere else first. Can anyone really argue with that?

I don't believe ANYONE is arguing with the points (which are very obvious to folks that follow Gonzaga) you and Project have made. At all.

It's obvious that the guy who wrote the article doesn't follow Gonzaga (or West Coast) recruiting as closely as many on this board.

Thus my comment on "perception".

CDC84
08-18-2015, 03:09 PM
I think what is true, though, is that Gonzaga has a better recruiting set up than Wichita State likely will ever have under Marshall. Not just with the international pipeline they have and the reputation they have with elite transfers, but also with where they are located on the map. I realize that the east coast and Midwest has many more top 100 players than the west coast, but there are also way more high major programs in those areas competing for players.....both top 100 kids and hidden gems......

Zagdawg
08-18-2015, 03:11 PM
Agree that we don't dominate by grabbing all the top talent- but Few does get solid results with who comes to Gonzaga. He may not have a roster of top 100 guys- but he gets the team into discussion as one of the top 25 programs in the country just about every year.

GoZags
08-18-2015, 03:27 PM
I think most folks "miss"'the reason for Few's success, and the reason Gonzaga hasn't "slipped" while he's been HC. It's my opinion that the fact that he focus on kids (with talent) who are sons of coaches or are from "basketball"
families.

Sure, there are exceptions but when you review the last decade and a half .... virtually every "leader" has come come from "basketball" roots and are "team" guys.

seacatfan
08-18-2015, 03:58 PM
Sorry GoZags, I misinterpreted that thinking it was a reference to my perception, not the perception of the author of the article. Now I got it, carry on.

I would say Gonzaga is among the top schools in the country when it comes to international recruiting. Some of the recent star players out of Canada (Bennett, Wiggins, etc.) have gone to US prep schools so they've been ranked against their college bound peers. Most if not all of the international players that ended up at GU don't fit that bill so I don't think they were ever "ranked" per se. I imagine Sabonis and Karnowski would've been very highly ranked in their classes.

At the end of the day, numbers of stars next to a high school recruit's name doesn't really count for anything once they get to college (other than perception perhaps). All about the team you put on the floor and how they perform. GU has been highly successful for nearly two decades now, however they are getting players it is working!

DixieZag
08-18-2015, 04:45 PM
I think what is true, though, is that Gonzaga has a better recruiting set up than Wichita State likely will ever have under Marshall. Not just with the international pipeline they have and the reputation they have with elite transfers, but also with where they are located on the map. I realize that the east coast and Midwest has many more top 100 players than the west coast, but there are also way more high major programs in those areas competing for players.....both top 100 kids and hidden gems......

Sounds exactly right.

As others have stated (and as obvious), where we go from a "very good WCC team" to "national FF caliber" is with the International students. Just read off the names lately as we've taken the "next step" - Harris, Olynick, Pangos, Karnowski, Sabonis, - that's the difference. Same with transfers to a lesser extent.