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Zagceo
08-13-2015, 11:38 AM
Thought it would interesting having 1 thread to debate how the rule changes could impact Zags


The NCAA Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved a package of proposals and areas of focus for officials in men’s basketball to improve the pace of play, better balance offense with defense and reduce the physicality in the sport.

The NCAA Men’s Basketball Committee made similar recommendations before the 2013-14 season, and it felt the changes improved the game. But after gaining some positive traction, the balance between offense and defense again tilted toward the defense last season. Scoring in Division I men’s basketball dipped to 67.6 points a game last season, which neared historic lows for the sport.
The key areas officials will focus on in the upcoming season are:

• Perimeter defense, particularly on the dribbler and strictly enforcing directives established before the 2013-14 season.
• Physicality in post play.
• Screening, particularly moving screens and requiring the screener to be stationary.
• Block/charge plays.
• Allowing greater freedom of movement for players without the ball.

Pace of play

With an eye on reducing inaction, the panel approved several proposals to improve the pace of play. The most significant is reducing the shot clock to 30 seconds. The shot clock was last reduced for the 1993-94 season when it went from 45 seconds to 35.
Teams will also have one fewer team timeout (only three can carry over instead of four) in the second half. Officials will focus more on resuming play quickly after a timeout and will issue a delay-of-game warning when a team does not comply and a one-shot technical foul on subsequent violations.
The rest of the package designed to improve the pace of play includes:
• Adjusting the media timeout procedures to allow a timeout called within 30 seconds of a break (at the 16:30 mark) or at any time after the scheduled media timeout becomes the media timeout.
• Removing the ability for a coach to call timeout when the ball is live.
• Allowing a total of only 10 seconds to advance the ball to the front court (with a few exceptions).
• Reducing the amount of time allotted to replace a disqualified player from 20 to 15 seconds.

Restricted-area arc

The panel also approved the expansion of the restricted-area arc from 3 feet to 4 feet. This arc would be effective in 2015-16 for Division I and 2016-17 for Divisions II and III. Moving the arc a foot farther from the basket is part of a continued focus on reducing the number of collisions at the basket.
Games in the 2015 Postseason NIT were played with the 4-foot arc on an experimental basis.
When compared to the 2013 NIT, which had the same block/charge standards as the 2015 event (aside from the 4-foot arc), the number of block/charge plays decreased from 2.77 per game to 1.96 per game.

Faking fouls

During the use of a video review to see if a possible flagrant foul occurred, the panel approved a rule that would allow officials to penalize players who fake fouls. The NCAA Men’s Basketball Rules Committee felt that players trying to draw fouls by deception is a growing issue.

Other changes

Other proposals approved by the panel include:
• Allowing officials to use the monitor to review a potential shot clock violation on made field goals throughout the entire game.
• Making Class B technical fouls (hanging on the rim and delaying the resumption of play, for example) one-shot technical fouls. Previously, two shots were granted for these types of technical fouls.
• Eliminating the five-second closely guarded rule while dribbling the ball.
• Removing the prohibition on dunking in pregame warmups and at halftime.

Experimental rule

The panel also approved an experimental rule to allow players six personal fouls, instead of five, in the 2016 postseason tournaments other than the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship.




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Zagceo
08-13-2015, 11:44 AM
Will PK benefit from the new forearm rule in the post or be penalized by it?

Maybe both

I like the technical foul on flopping should help our team as a whole

TheGonzagaFactor
08-13-2015, 12:31 PM
The timeout rule is HUGE. Not getting the 2-for-1 timeouts to stifle momentum anymore... that's a welcome change to me as a fan of the game. The way it has been is a joke. 8 built in media timeouts combined with as many as 10 team timeouts... ridiculous. Any timeout should simply replace a media timeout. Each team takes 2 timeouts in the first 4 minutes of a half=no media timeouts in half. I know they've gotta make their $$$, so it's nice to see even a modest compromise.

CDC84
08-13-2015, 12:46 PM
Zagceo = Do you have the link where you found that NCAA document? I have been looking around for something like that for ages. Thanks.

I still feel there is a legitimate argument to be made that the new shot clock will not help scoring one bit. In fact, it could get worse. The college game doesn't possess the kind of dynamic PG's the NBA has to create something out of the nothing when the shot clock is expiring. You're going to see more token full court pressure and all sorts of defensive gimmicks to make it harder to run offense. The Zag guards are going to need to get the ball up the floor quicker than ever.

Rule 2-10.9 will never be enforced. I have rarely seen an official enforce the old 20 second rule, so why should I expect them to enforce 15 seconds?

zagfan24
08-13-2015, 12:50 PM
The timeout rule is HUGE. Not getting the 2-for-1 timeouts to stifle momentum anymore... that's a welcome change to me as a fan of the game. The way it has been is a joke. 8 built in media timeouts combined with as many as 10 team timeouts... ridiculous. Any timeout should simply replace a media timeout. Each team takes 2 timeouts in the first 4 minutes of a half=no media timeouts in half. I know they've gotta make their $$$, so it's nice to see even a modest compromise.

Agree completely. I was pleasantly surprised given that timeouts = revenue. I have long believed that the 4 min timeout in the 2nd half needs to be eliminated so that the end of the game, which is already broken up plenty by fouls and team timouts, can have a little bit more rhythm.

I also really like the rule prohibiting an offensive player from jumping sideways into an airborne defender to draw a foul.

SteelZag
08-13-2015, 01:08 PM
Zagceo = Do you have the link where you found that NCAA document? I have been looking around for something like that for ages. Thanks.

I still feel there is a legitimate argument to be made that the new shot clock will not help scoring one bit. In fact, it could get worse. The college game doesn't possess the kind of dynamic PG's the NBA has to create something out of the nothing when the shot clock is expiring. You're going to see more token full court pressure and all sorts of defensive gimmicks to make it harder to run offense. The Zag guards are going to need to get the ball up the floor quicker than ever.

Rule 2-10.9 will never be enforced. I have rarely seen an official enforce the old 20 second rule, so why should I expect them to enforce 15 seconds?

Yeah, the first thing that went through my head was Duke at home. Not holding my breath for that one.

Zagceo
08-13-2015, 01:47 PM
Zagceo = Do you have the link where you found that NCAA document? I have been looking around for something like that for ages. Thanks.

LINK_1 (http://www.ncaa.org/championships/playing-rules/mens-basketball-rules-game)

LINK_2 (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2015-17%20Men%27s%20Basketball%20Rules%20Changes%20FINA L.pdf)

CDC84
08-13-2015, 02:17 PM
Thanks a bunch.

Zagceo
08-13-2015, 02:56 PM
Your welcome.

Rule 4-12.1 6 foul trial could be interesting in B4A

NotoriousZ
08-13-2015, 03:25 PM
LOVE the penalty for faking a foul rule. It seems like other teams try this on the Zags way too much.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-13-2015, 03:28 PM
I'm excited for three rules.

1. Restricted circle going from 3 to 4 feet
2. Shot clock going to 30
3. Timouts counting as media TOs if they're close

I think extending the restricted area is going to produce the most tangible effects. For a guy like Josh Perkins who is adept at penetrating the lane and dishing the ball off, I would imagine that extra space around the hoop to be a great benefit. I'm also all for any time you can take hard judgment calls out of the refs hands, in this case the block/charge. Such a tough call to make so if this lowers the amount of times the ref needs to make that call, great thing.

As far as the shot clock goes, I dont think it's going to produce the effects people want or expect as far as scoring goes. It's going to help the defense in alot of ways. That said I just think 35 is to long and 30 is perfect. I wouldn't have minded 28 either but I think 30 is the sweet spot. Even if a team applies token pressure the offense will still have 23-25 seconds after they cross half court which is more then enough time to run offense. The only teams that will be negatively affected by this are teams like Wisconsin or Georgetown, most teams Offense will run just fine with 30 seconds imo.

The timeout situation is just going to streamline the game so I'm all for that. Waaaaaaaaay to many stoppages in play.

zagamatic
08-13-2015, 04:12 PM
For a change, I actually see some rule changes I actually like. I'm mildly shocked.

SunDevilGolfZag
08-13-2015, 04:48 PM
LOVE the penalty for faking a foul rule. It seems like other teams try this on the Zags way too much.

In particular that guy from Wake Forest who got Elias kicked out. And then he admits later it was the flop we all knew it was

Hoopaholic
08-13-2015, 05:07 PM
how has scoring been since the last time we reduced the shot clock......oh wait it has been on a steady DECLINE since that last move, so not sure how the rationale aligns with the facts........

I think we will see more hurried shots, more poor shot selection and scoring will not increase

I also think it hurts teams that want to work inside out, forcing quicker shots and lack of ball rotation due the reduced time available to engage in these types of basketball actions

really disappointed in the removal of the 5 second closely guarded rule, once again I forsee unintended consequences of pressure, then dropping off into more zone as there would be no advantage to guarding outside the three point line....and add less time on offense you may see alot more 3 point shots, which are not of the highest percentage

gonzagafan62
08-13-2015, 05:13 PM
how has scoring been since the last time we reduced the shot clock......oh wait it has been on a steady DECLINE since that last move, so not sure how the rationale aligns with the facts........

I think we will see more hurried shots, more poor shot selection and scoring will not increase

I also think it hurts teams that want to work inside out, forcing quicker shots and lack of ball rotation due the reduced time available to engage in these types of basketball actions

really disappointed in the removal of the 5 second closely guarded rule, once again I forsee unintended consequences of pressure, then dropping off into more zone as there would be no advantage to guarding outside the three point line....and add less time on offense you may see alot more 3 point shots, which are not of the highest percentage

I agree word for word

RenoZag
08-13-2015, 05:44 PM
Removing the prohibition on dunking in pregame warmups and at halftime.


Too late for Samhan . . .

caduceus
08-13-2015, 11:27 PM
The 6-foul rule is interesting (among others). I wish it was mandated though for overtime games. It only seems fair to me that if you extend the game, you should extend the number of allowed fouls.

TheGonzagaFactor
08-14-2015, 05:30 AM
Your welcome.

Rule 4-12.1 6 foul trial could be interesting in B4A

I don't think we will see this anywhere but the NIT and CBI.

TheGonzagaFactor
08-14-2015, 05:46 AM
how has scoring been since the last time we reduced the shot clock......oh wait it has been on a steady DECLINE since that last move, so not sure how the rationale aligns with the facts........

I think we will see more hurried shots, more poor shot selection and scoring will not increase

I also think it hurts teams that want to work inside out, forcing quicker shots and lack of ball rotation due the reduced time available to engage in these types of basketball actions

really disappointed in the removal of the 5 second closely guarded rule, once again I forsee unintended consequences of pressure, then dropping off into more zone as there would be no advantage to guarding outside the three point line....and add less time on offense you may see alot more 3 point shots, which are not of the highest percentage

Didn't they try a 30 second clock in the NIT/CBI with great results? I don't have any numbers here (it'd be a small sample size anyway) but I thought the general consensus was that it worked well. I figured more hurried shots would result in more fastbreaks going the other way, meaning more scoring and a more wide-open game in general. I also like the idea of more bad shot selection and hurried shots, it will punish bad teams that don't have their offense together. I'm tired of watching WCC teams stand around for 25 seconds before initiating offense. Now they will have to get going quicker, which will probably result in mass turnovers and clankers, and we will get more possessions/shots anyway. I also believe roster depth will be tested a bit more with the extra trips up and down the floor, which I like.

Hoopaholic
08-14-2015, 06:08 AM
Didn't they try a 30 second clock in the NIT/CBI with great results? I don't have any numbers here (it'd be a small sample size anyway) but I thought the general consensus was that it worked well. I figured more hurried shots would result in more fastbreaks going the other way, meaning more scoring and a more wide-open game in general. I also like the idea of more bad shot selection and hurried shots, it will punish bad teams that don't have their offense together. I'm tired of watching WCC teams stand around for 25 seconds before initiating offense. Now they will have to get going quicker, which will probably result in mass turnovers and clankers, and we will get more possessions/shots anyway. I also believe roster depth will be tested a bit more with the extra trips up and down the floor, which I like.

dont know but the cbi and nit post tournament is not exactly made up of the cream of the crop teams

I go back to my premise we lowered the shot clock many years ago and time has already shown us that scoring went down, so why would one think scoring will go up if we lower the clock once again?

Personally they are trying to be like the nba and that is destroying the college game

Hoopaholic
08-14-2015, 06:15 AM
I also suspect we will see more of the nuisance press in an attempt to shave time off good half court teams and because of this we probably will see more fouls which will slow the game down

LongIslandZagFan
08-14-2015, 06:53 AM
dont know but the cbi and nit post tournament is not exactly made up of the cream of the crop teams

I go back to my premise we lowered the shot clock many years ago and time has already shown us that scoring went down, so why would one think scoring will go up if we lower the clock once again?

Personally they are trying to be like the nba and that is destroying the college game

There used to be NO shot clock in the college game. The game evolves and changes.

DixieZag
08-14-2015, 08:11 AM
Any timeout should simply replace a media timeout. Each team takes 2 timeouts in the first 4 minutes of a half=no media timeouts in half. I know they've gotta make their $$$, so it's nice to see even a modest compromise.

Yes!

Thank you.

Nothing bothers me more than sitting there hearing announcers drone on for 2 minutes through a team timeout, and 10 seconds later when the ball goes out of bounds at 7:59, going off to a commercial break.

Allowing for dunking during pre-game, halftime will allow for a little more entertainment for the fans. First kid that breaks or rips a hand doing it will look pretty stupid, but I think that's fine.

Love the penalty on faking a foul. Love it. They brought it to the NHL a few years ago and I think it changed the game for the better.

IowaSERE
08-14-2015, 08:12 AM
The 6-foul rule is interesting (among others). I wish it was mandated though for overtime games. It only seems fair to me that if you extend the game, you should extend the number of allowed fouls.

Totally agree. 1 extra foul per overtime period. However, if you foul out in regulation, you are out for overtime as well.

DixieZag
08-14-2015, 08:34 AM
However, if you foul out in regulation, you are out for overtime as well.

Sounds exactly right.

hondo
08-14-2015, 09:04 AM
The 6th foul will only slow the game down and add to the already excessive violence. Bad idea.

DixieZag
08-14-2015, 09:16 AM
The 6th foul will only slow the game down and add to the already excessive violence. Bad idea.

Question, not a challenge.

If there are 5 extra minutes, and so long as a person that has fouled out in reg time doesn't get back in - don't you think it simply is fair and actually makes the late game play more exciting when guys with 4 fouls in OT can at least still play defense semi-aggressively, but not excessive? (excessive violence should be addressed, agree).

Also, when a player fouls out, I think the team has a full minute (or something like it) to get the new player on the floor, it's almost like a mini-time out, so I'm not sure how it slows the game. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

Bogozags
08-14-2015, 09:19 AM
The 30 second shot clock will help the defence as it now forces the offence to do more with less. I visualize USF in their half court offence being forced to find something a little quicker as they have lost five seconds to "stall" in their passing game. I also see more teams using the nuisance press to reduce seconds on the shot clock for teams like USF.

Eliminating the ability of players/coaches to call "live ball" timeouts will surely help the defence during the 10 second count as well as when a player loses their dribble and is being tied up forcing the 5 second rule...

Also find the Unsportsmanlike call to eliminate the "fake fouls" as a near impossibility for the refs to call. I doubt we see five of those in the season...IMO

Bogozags
08-14-2015, 09:23 AM
Question, not a challenge.

If there are 5 extra minutes, and so long as a person that has fouled out in reg time doesn't get back in - don't you think it simply is fair and actually makes the late game play more exciting when guys with 4 fouls in OT can at least still play defense semi-aggressively, but not excessive? (excessive violence should be addressed, agree).

Also, when a player fouls out, I think the team has a full minute (or something like it) to get the new player on the floor, it's almost like a mini-time out, so I'm not sure how it slows the game. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.


Dixie, it use to be 60 seconds and then 30 seconds to 20 seconds and now to 15 seconds. I think the rule should of stated that coaches cannot meet with players during this dead ball period as this seems to always extend the "20 second" rule to 30 and 45 seconds...it will be interesting to see how coaches circumnavigate these rules during the season and the refs will be tested...hopefully, they will not bend!

ProjectMKUltra5
08-14-2015, 09:59 AM
When they tested the shot clock in the NIT and CBI each teams have averaged 4 more points and 3.5 more possessions per game then they did in the regular season. The average length of a possession under a 35 second shot clock is 18.4 seconds so most teams likely won't feel much of difference, and I definitely don't think we're going to see all sorts of bad shots and sloppy basketball all of the sudden because of it. It's not the end all be all in the discussion about college basketball rules but it's a necessary step in modernizing the college game.

hondo
08-14-2015, 10:03 AM
Dixie, I refer to 4-12.1 Experimental rule

The panel also approved an experimental rule to allow players six personal fouls, instead of five, in the 2016 postseason tournaments other than the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship.
No mention of overtime here. Just seems to be moving in the wrong direction. As I see it those extra fouls could be used to agonizingly drag out an already decided game by intentional late fouling. In the last 2 minutes of the game the team that was fouled should have the choice of attempting the free throws or being awarded the ball out of bounds with a new shot clock. I have never liked the idea of a team gaining an advantage because of their own violation.

Bogozags
08-14-2015, 11:00 AM
Dixie, I refer to 4-12.1 Experimental rule

The panel also approved an experimental rule to allow players six personal fouls, instead of five, in the 2016 postseason tournaments other than the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship.
No mention of overtime here. Just seems to be moving in the wrong direction.

As I see it those extra fouls could be used to agonizingly drag out an already decided game by intentional late fouling. In the last 2 minutes of the game the team that was fouled should have the choice of attempting the free throws or being awarded the ball out of bounds with a new shot clock. I have never liked the idea of a team gaining an advantage because of their own violation.

Two rules I have wanted to see incorporated in both the high school and NCAA/NAIA rule books: (1) The option to either take the ball or shot foul shots in the last two minutes and (2) in a tie-up/jump ball situation, the ball would automatically go to the team on defence based upon which court the ball is located.

DixieZag
08-14-2015, 11:03 AM
Dixie, I refer to 4-12.1 Experimental rule

The panel also approved an experimental rule to allow players six personal fouls, instead of five, in the 2016 postseason tournaments other than the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship.
No mention of overtime here. Just seems to be moving in the wrong direction. As I see it those extra fouls could be used to agonizingly drag out an already decided game by intentional late fouling. In the last 2 minutes of the game the team that was fouled should have the choice of attempting the free throws or being awarded the ball out of bounds with a new shot clock. I have never liked the idea of a team gaining an advantage because of their own violation.

Ahhh, good point. I hadn't considered the impact on how it would play out as a function of whether people would use the extra freedom of a possible 6th foul in OT to drag out games.

goog point.

CDC84
08-14-2015, 12:04 PM
Also, when a player fouls out, I think the team has a full minute (or something like it) to get the new player on the floor, it's almost like a mini-time out, so I'm not sure how it slows the game. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

See new rule 2-10.9. They actually have 15 seconds to get the new player on the floor. Before it was 20 seconds. Of course the refs never enforce the rule. They allow players to huddle along their benches and use the player disqualification as a free timeout.

TheGonzagaFactor
08-14-2015, 12:07 PM
dont know but the cbi and nit post tournament is not exactly made up of the cream of the crop teams

I go back to my premise we lowered the shot clock many years ago and time has already shown us that scoring went down, so why would one think scoring will go up if we lower the clock once again?

Personally they are trying to be like the nba and that is destroying the college game


There are teams in the NIT that are better than NCAA teams, that's not disputable. If sub-creme of the crop teams can score more with a shorter shot clock, why can't good teams do it?

When they reduced the shot clock in 1994, were there a bunch of other rules that went with it? I don't know if it was a standalone change or if they had other supposed pace-increasing measures put in around that time.

I just think there are other things in play here than the shot clock. We are also comparing 1994 to 2015, the game and its players have changed quite a bit in that time.

Zag 77
08-14-2015, 01:26 PM
How about reverting to the old rule that a tie-up leads to an actual jump ball?

RenoZag
10-16-2015, 02:20 PM
From ESPN: One ink-stained wretch's view of the rule changes

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/108598/top-10-potential-benefits-of-rule-changes


With GU vs. Pitt being one of the first nationally televised games of the new season, it will be interesting to see if any of the changes are so-called "points of emphasis" right out of the starting gate.

Three weeks until Eastern Oregon. . .