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ZagNative
08-10-2015, 09:14 AM
Who's #1, per this Bleacher Report piece (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2536435-ranking-the-most-complete-players-for-the-2015-16-college-basketball-season/page/22)?

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/004/020/101/hi-res-8a85bf8a6004a4852cae6e326efd24fe_crop_north.jpg?w= 630&h=420&q=75


Position: Forward

Year: Senior



Kyle Wiltjer could be used as a textbook example of what a complete college basketball player looks like, but only since transforming himself at Gonzaga.

During his first two seasons at Kentucky, the 6'10" Wiltjer was primarily a catch-and-shoot player who took more than half of his field goals from beyond the arc. He was good at that, making 39 percent in those two seasons, but that's all he could do.

But after sitting out a year and searching for a way to fit into Gonzaga's talented lineup, Wiltjer used his time off to become stronger and more willing to use his size to his advantage inside. This led to him not just becoming a better scorerógoing from 10.2 to 16.8 points per gameóbut someone who could grab key rebounds and disrupt on defense.

"You have a whole year to work on your weaknesses," Wiltjer told USA Today's George Schroeder.

Wiltjer's 6.2 rebounds per game last year weren't exceptional, but combined with everything else he's able to do, it was the area he needed the most improvement in. And with that, he's the most complete player in the game for 2015-16.

Mojo13
08-10-2015, 02:10 PM
Who's #1, per this Bleacher Report piece (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2536435-ranking-the-most-complete-players-for-the-2015-16-college-basketball-season/page/22)?

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/004/020/101/hi-res-8a85bf8a6004a4852cae6e326efd24fe_crop_north.jpg?w= 630&h=420&q=75

LMFAO at Bleacher Report. I love Kyle but to call him "complete" is laughable and hammers home that 99% of the crap on Bleacher Report has no credibility.

Here is a hint....if on the interwebs the article involves clicking through 26 different pages to see a "Top 25" list then it is the definition of "click bait". Just garbage filler to get ad impressions. Spam.



Just look at the expression on Kyle's face - it was taken the moment when Kyle was told Bleacher Report called him a "complete" player. He was quoted as saying "Whaaaaaaaat? You just talking offense right!?!"

Section 116
08-10-2015, 02:37 PM
I enjoy reading this stuff, regardless. Thanks Native!

DixieZag
08-10-2015, 04:05 PM
LMFAO at Bleacher Report. I love Kyle but to call him "complete" is laughable and hammers home that 99% of the crap on Bleacher Report has no credibility.

Here is a hint....if on the interwebs the article involves clicking through 26 different pages to see a "Top 25" list then it is the definition of "click bait". Just garbage filler to get ad impressions. Spam.



Just look at the expression on Kyle's face - it was taken the moment when Kyle was told Bleacher Report called him a "complete" player. He was quoted as saying "Whaaaaaaaat? You just talking offense right!?!"

For every time you hit click bait, God kills a kitten.

gonzagafan62
08-10-2015, 04:11 PM
Whether people like it or not Wiltjer is going to be not just an all American candidate, but also a wooden award candidate. I welcome all good GU press. Wiltjer is top 3 preseason wooden awar watch list on just about everything. Complete game is not always part of the question. Look at Other wooden winners. And personally I don't care.

Go zags! This year!

Zag365
08-10-2015, 04:41 PM
We know that Shem and DS are going to bring it. If our guards play as well as I think (how can EMac, JP, SM, and KD not be a force?), I wouldn't be surprised to see KW in the mix as one of the nation's leading scorers. Last year, he showed more willingness to go inside. With his length, he'll also get some putbacks off rebounding. His FT shooting is solid. And, of course, his outside shot is money. I think the only control on the throttle is GU's system of sharing the ball and working for the better shot (all of which I like). But, like I said, if our guard play takes off right away this year, I think we are going to play lots of games in the 80s, which will give KW lots of volume opportunities within the GU offensive scheme.

Zagger
08-10-2015, 05:43 PM
We know that Shem and DS are going to bring it. If our guards play as well as I think (how can EMac, JP, SM, and KD not be a force?), I wouldn't be surprised to see KW in the mix as one of the nation's leading scorers. Last year, he showed more willingness to go inside. With his length, he'll also get some putbacks off rebounding. His FT shooting is solid. And, of course, his outside shot is money. I think the only control on the throttle is GU's system of sharing the ball and working for the better shot (all of which I like). But, like I said, if our guard play takes off right away this year, I think we are going to play lots of games in the 80s, which will give KW lots of volume opportunities within the GU offensive scheme.

Agree 95% (I think there will be lots of scores in the 90s). I don't necessarily think KW is over-rated. The guy is smart and it's his senior year - with an awesome supporting cast. I think he'll be quite comfy on the floor this season and it'll show.

hooter73
08-10-2015, 07:54 PM
bleacher report.

Radbooks
08-10-2015, 09:01 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post this, Zag Native! I appreciated it.

Bogozags
08-11-2015, 07:28 AM
Question: When Adam was playing, especially in 2005-2006 season, did Coach Few have a throttle on "GU's system of sharing the ball and working for a better shot...?" Not saying AD and KW are equals on offence but...

IowaSERE
08-11-2015, 08:33 AM
It seems to me like as the season went on, Kyles rebounding numbers went up. I would not be surprised to see him around 18-19 ppg, and 7.5-8 rebs. Last I checked, the POY awards don't really focus on charges drawn, and opponents scoring average.

seacatfan
08-11-2015, 08:51 AM
Question: When Adam was playing, especially in 2005-2006 season, did Coach Few have a throttle on "GU's system of sharing the ball and working for a better shot...?" Not saying AD and KW are equals on offence but...

Good question. I think Adam had a green light during his Jr year to a degree that hasn't been seen before or since at GU during the Few era. While Batista and Raivio could both put the ball thru the hoop as well, overall the current GU roster is much more balanced with more scoring options than during the 05-06 season. So I don't think we'll see KW taking nearly as many shots or have nearly as high of a scoring average as Morrison did, although his 45 point outburst last season certainly looked Ammo-esque.

seacatfan
08-11-2015, 08:56 AM
It seems to me like as the season went on, Kyles rebounding numbers went up. I would not be surprised to see him around 18-19 ppg, and 7.5-8 rebs. Last I checked, the POY awards don't really focus on charges drawn, and opponents scoring average.

I noticed his rebounding improve as the season progressed last year as well. Those stats you are projecting for him seem very possible to me. Looks kinda like Kelly O's numbers his last year at GU...

mgadfly
08-11-2015, 10:43 AM
Question: When Adam was playing, especially in 2005-2006 season, did Coach Few have a throttle on "GU's system of sharing the ball and working for a better shot...?" Not saying AD and KW are equals on offence but...

I don't think it was a throttle per se. I think there were a few contributing factors. First, there wasn't a lot of shot creators on that squad. You had Morrison-Batista-Raivio who aggressively hunted opportunities to score. Then you had more complimentary scorers like Pendergraft and Mallon (neither proved to be capable of creating their own scoring opportunities). Pargo and Downs were very young and were not looking to score. PMAC, Knight, and Larry G were not scoring threats at all. Morrison and Batista (and to some extent Raivio) filled that need for creating shot opportunities. Second, Morrison had a knack for scoring when he touched the ball. The offensive schemes were similar, but the plays terminated early because Morrison was able to draw attention and get good shots up without moving the ball. Overall, my impression has always been that Few wants good shot opportunities either early in the offense (e.g., during our fast break or secondary break where we post up a big man in the middle of the paint) or through a set play. Morrison had his number called a lot, but I never had the feeling that we fundamentally changed what we were doing on the court even if his ability to score made it look different.

As for offensive touches, I think there has only been three players (with any real minutes at all) that took more than 30% of the shots while on the floor since 2006. Morrison (36.5% of our shots), Coleman (31.7% of our shots while on the court), and Wiltjer (31.4%).

I imagine that Wiltjer could get to the 33 or 34% range this season fairly easily. However, I don't know that there is any chance he'll be on floor as much as Morrison (89.9% of the minutes vs Wiltjer's 69.3% of the minutes).

NumberCruncher
08-11-2015, 11:10 AM
I noticed his rebounding improve as the season progressed last year as well. Those stats you are projecting for him seem very possible to me. Looks kinda like Kelly O's numbers his last year at GU...

I also noticed improved rebounding. Here are the numbers:

http://i.imgur.com/oTRAwwn.jpg

What's most striking is the increase in defensive boards while the offensive boards went down. I'm guessing it was a point of emphasis by the staff.

SunDevilGolfZag
08-11-2015, 11:16 AM
LMFAO at Bleacher Report. I love Kyle but to call him "complete" is laughable and hammers home that 99% of the crap on Bleacher Report has no credibility.

Here is a hint....if on the interwebs the article involves clicking through 26 different pages to see a "Top 25" list then it is the definition of "click bait". Just garbage filler to get ad impressions. Spam.



Just look at the expression on Kyle's face - it was taken the moment when Kyle was told Bleacher Report called him a "complete" player. He was quoted as saying "Whaaaaaaaat? You just talking offense right!?!"
BR is offering its opinion that KW is the "most" complete player. To me that means he may still have relative weaknesses but given his abundant strengths he is overall the "most" complete player. I have no problem with that opinion

Reborn
08-11-2015, 11:42 AM
Whether people like it or not Wiltjer is going to be not just an all American candidate, but also a wooden award candidate. I welcome all good GU press. Wiltjer is top 3 preseason wooden awar watch list on just about everything. Complete game is not always part of the question. Look at Other wooden winners. And personally I don't care.

Go zags! This year!

This!

and this: "Thanks for taking the time to post this, Zag Native! I appreciated it." from Redbooks post.

Mojo13
08-11-2015, 11:46 AM
I also noticed improved rebounding. Here are the numbers:

http://i.imgur.com/oTRAwwn.jpg

What's most striking is the increase in defensive boards while the offensive boards went down. I'm guessing it was a point of emphasis by the staff.

The difference might be meaningless as their could be a variety of reasons for the change. Did GU play at a quicker pace (more possessions) in the 2nd half of the season? Did GUs opponents shoot worse % thus more rebounds were available?

Go look up his change in Rebounding% which is really the only good gauge of rebounding proficiency. It would be interesting to compare that stat to Sabonis as well.

IowaSERE
08-11-2015, 11:47 AM
I would love to see a stat that shows how much KW outscores the other teams 4 when on the floor. This is the true maning of an overall player IMO.

Mojo13
08-11-2015, 11:59 AM
BR is offering its opinion that KW is the "most" complete player. To me that means he may still have relative weaknesses but given his abundant strengths he is overall the "most" complete player. I have no problem with that opinion


I think Kyle will be a brilliant offensive player this year and a Wooden front runner (these awards don't care about D). If he was such a complete player you'd think he be a sure fire NBA lottery pick. He's not and it is because he struggles on the defensive end....that is not a complete player. Just my opinion - but if you want to be told what you want to hear, go ahead and call BR sound reporting. There is Fox News, MSNBC and RT for People who enjoy confirmation bias as well.

Bogozags
08-11-2015, 02:15 PM
KW might well be in the running (the top three) for NPOY but this kid from Canada Jamal Murray that is going to UK is gonna be some kind of play and IMO maybe the best Freshman PG to play at UK...he was unstoppable in the second half against the US team...no answer for him...at present, he is partial to going to his left BUT think Coach Cal's staff will get him to go both ways before the Dance...Simmons might well have the hype but he is going to have a Maravich type year again IMO to get past Murray...

TexasZagFan
08-12-2015, 04:49 AM
Who's #1, per this Bleacher Report piece (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2536435-ranking-the-most-complete-players-for-the-2015-16-college-basketball-season/page/22)?

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/004/020/101/hi-res-8a85bf8a6004a4852cae6e326efd24fe_crop_north.jpg?w= 630&h=420&q=75

I'm hoping Kyle grows a moustache, so I can haul the "You Can't Stop The Stache" t-shirt out of my closet. It hasn't been worn in over 9 years.

jazzdelmar
08-12-2015, 05:13 AM
KW might well be in the running (the top three) for NPOY but this kid from Canada Jamal Murray that is going to UK is gonna be some kind of play and IMO maybe the best Freshman PG to play at UK...he was unstoppable in the second half against the US team...no answer for him...at present, he is partial to going to his left BUT think Coach Cal's staff will get him to go both ways before the Dance...Simmons might well have the hype but he is going to have a Maravich type year again IMO to get past Murray...


Bogo, there will never be another Pistol...just sayin'

NumberCruncher
08-12-2015, 03:26 PM
The difference might be meaningless as their could be a variety of reasons for the change. Did GU play at a quicker pace (more possessions) in the 2nd half of the season? Did GUs opponents shoot worse % thus more rebounds were available?

Go look up his change in Rebounding% which is really the only good gauge of rebounding proficiency. It would be interesting to compare that stat to Sabonis as well.

The difference is NOT meaningless.
Quicker pace? No. Actually a tad slower.
Opponents shooting worse? No.

Did Wiltjer improve his rebounding proficiency? Yes, significantly.

Sabonis' rebounding stats are easily the best of any modern-era Zag. I haven't broken down his season by halves.

MickMick
08-12-2015, 03:52 PM
I don't think KW has his ceiling yet, but he may be close.

Everyone is going to be talking about Sabonis. He has become a rebounding machine. Me thinks he will go down as the greatest rebounder in Zag history. Of course his production will have to be relatively weighed by the amount of time he gets on the floor.


The cool thing about great rebounders is that it is a measure of desire and technique. A tribute to "motor". Sabonis has it in spades.