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Zag 77
07-31-2015, 09:11 AM
Here is a question for a slow summer day. Will the Mark Few haters/bashers be silenced now that he has gotten the Zags back to the Elite Eight?

I am half-surprised we did not see any "Mark Few can't coach" posts after his Pan Am team was beaten by Canada and Brazil.

MDABE80
07-31-2015, 09:42 AM
Always be some 77. a 4 loss streak would do it... lol.............

DADoZAG
07-31-2015, 09:56 AM
Always be some 77. a 4 loss streak would do it... lol.............

...or if he starts a 5'9 legacy without length or an outside shot over a 6'4 MVP....

Ha!

It should be noted that very few if any posters "hate" Coach, I'm most certainly not in that extremely exclusive club (if it even exists). If our passion and quest for perfection makes us "bashers" in other's eyes, so be it.

Go ZAGS!

ProjectMKUltra5
07-31-2015, 10:12 AM
...or if he starts a 5'9 legacy without length or an outside shot over a 6'4 MVP....

Ha!

It should be noted that very few if any posters "hate" Coach, I'm most certainly not in that extremely exclusive club (if it even exists). If our passion and quest for perfection makes us "bashers" in other's eyes, so be it.

Go ZAGS!

+1

There's a difference between "bashing" Few and having high expectations. Sadly lots of fans can't recognize the difference between the two.

Reborn
07-31-2015, 10:35 AM
Geeze!!! What a negative thread.. There are those who have criticisms of Mark Few, but I would not take criticism to the extreme of calling it Few Bashing. When Few gets a team to the Elite 8 it is only natural that there would not be any criticisms. I don't even think Jazz had any. I know you are bored, so it will be interesting to see what happens with this thread. My first thoughts are that there are very few Mark Few bashers, and before a season that could be very positive, I feel this kind of a thread unnecessary. But what do I know....I'm not a mod...

TexasZagFan
07-31-2015, 10:53 AM
Always be some 77. a 4 loss streak would do it... lol.............

Only if it's in conference play. BobZag's server would have a catastrophic meltdown.

TexasZagFan
07-31-2015, 10:58 AM
Geeze!!! What a negative thread.. There are those who have criticisms of Mark Few, but I would not take criticism to the extreme of calling it Few Bashing. When Few gets a team to the Elite 8 it is only natural that there would not be any criticisms. I don't even think Jazz had any. I know you are bored, so it will be interesting to see what happens with this thread. My first thoughts are that there are very few Mark Few bashers, and before a season that could be very positive, I feel this kind of a thread unnecessary. But what do I know....I'm not a mod...

For those of you who are bored, allow me to offer a change-up. Check out the website iss.astroviewer.net...seriously. It tracks the viewing opportunities of the ISS from a given location for 10-14 days.

Since I started following this website, I've had no urge whatsoever to criticize Coach Few.

CDC84
07-31-2015, 11:16 AM
I noticed that this page hasn't seen much activity since February:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fire-Mark-Few/497967640264616

gonzagafan62
07-31-2015, 11:48 AM
I noticed that this page hasn't seen much activity since February:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fire-Mark-Few/497967640264616

Few bashing is beyond ridiculous, and so is the leader of the facebook page.

Who took us out of the depths of no tournaments at all? One could say Don Monson. But I say its Mark Few. One who has sustained the program, and developed players into All American athletes with very little tolerance for off the court crap. Never have to worry about it. (2007 proved to be a fluke)

Since Mark Few Has taken over:

1 Elite Eight
2 Third Team All Americans
3 First Team All Americans
3 Second Team All Americans
5 Sweet Sixteens
12 Conference Tournament Championships
14 Conference Regular Season Championships
16 Straight appearances in tournament

Ranked #1 for the first time in school history; one of the most recognizable brands in basketball - And also getting high level recruits, and transfers. People wanna fire Few - for mediocrity. What mediocrity is all that above? I see none.

I say why? Not only do we get to the tournament every year, but we also need to know where we came from. NOWHERE! A little school in Washington paired up with all the California schools and Portland. That wasn't even fair 20 years ago, but it turns out that we are now dominating yearly. Lets not forget that we have one of the best programs in the nation for Redshirted players, and transfer programs also. Getting high level transfers and players for real.

We have just gotten started recently. Kelly Olynyk, Wiltjer, Sabonis, Perkins, NWG, JWIII, and Zach Collins. When was an era this good for talent for US? Never! And we recruited Spangler too, whom if he stayed, 2013 and most certainly 2014 would be better. Nonetheless, he wasn't, but we got to thrill over the teams we have had.

Seriously, we have JUST NOW gained the trust of kids to come to Gonzaga to WIN a BUNCH, (30 games a year), going to the tournament every year, and winning games. Being #1 team in the country helped 2013, #2 2015, and going to the Elite Eight, NOW THATS what gets kids to come to Gonzaga.

The Journey has just started. Keep watching, Gonzaga will be in the Final Four at some point. Getting closer every year.

Go Zags

gonzagafan62
07-31-2015, 11:52 AM
+1

There's a difference between "bashing" Few and having high expectations. Sadly lots of fans can't recognize the difference between the two.

I do agree with this. It makes sense, and is true. I don't call that bashing at all. I am talking about the exclusives.

bartruff1
07-31-2015, 12:05 PM
There will always be the entitled....screw them.

seacatfan
07-31-2015, 12:09 PM
I've definitely been critical of Few at times, but last year was a fantastic year, this year looks to be another great one. I haven't engaged in Few bashing any time recently, haven't seen others doing it either, really not much to be critical of lately.

jazzdelmar
07-31-2015, 12:28 PM
Me? No way. I'm a Few buyer now. He's done a superb job all round, even beyond the E8. But thanks for the shout out, Bornie. Wish MF was managing the Mets; wtf are they thinking. And the Padres, they are standing pat?



Geeze!!! What a negative thread.. There are those who have criticisms of Mark Few, but I would not take criticism to the extreme of calling it Few Bashing. When Few gets a team to the Elite 8 it is only natural that there would not be any criticisms. I don't even think Jazz had any. I know you are bored, so it will be interesting to see what happens with this thread. My first thoughts are that there are very few Mark Few bashers, and before a season that could be very positive, I feel this kind of a thread unnecessary. But what do I know....I'm not a mod...

Ezag
07-31-2015, 01:02 PM
Elite 8....blah, should have been Final 4 at the minimum

ZenZag
07-31-2015, 01:23 PM
For those of you who are bored, allow me to offer a change-up. Check out the website iss.astroviewer.net...seriously. It tracks the viewing opportunities of the ISS from a given location for 10-14 days.

Since I started following this website, I've had no urge whatsoever to criticize Coach Few.

There is also a great app for this (at least on the iphone) called "ISS Spotter". Very cool to use these tools and watch the ISS fly over!

23dpg
07-31-2015, 02:18 PM
...or if he starts a 5'9 legacy without length or an outside shot over a 6'4 MVP....

Ha!

It should be noted that very few if any posters "hate" Coach, I'm most certainly not in that extremely exclusive club (if it even exists). If our passion and quest for perfection makes us "bashers" in other's eyes, so be it.

Go ZAGS!


F@#k, Let it go! It was the right choice then and in hindsight.

jazzdelmar
07-31-2015, 02:24 PM
Who's the 6-4 MVP supplanted by the Lil' Legacy?

gonzagafan62
07-31-2015, 02:30 PM
Who's the 6-4 MVP supplanted by the Lil' Legacy?

Marquise Carter, Jazz

Reborn
07-31-2015, 03:02 PM
I thought that might wake you up, Jazz. How about those Mariners???????????? Maybe worse than Mets.

jazzdelmar
07-31-2015, 03:20 PM
I thought that might wake you up, Jazz. How about those Mariners???????????? Maybe worse than Mets.

None is worse than the Meet the Mets, from New York Town.

jazzdelmar
07-31-2015, 03:21 PM
Marquise Carter, Jazz

Gotcha. That's damning with faint praise, IMO. We have clearly moved on from those days.

kclubfounder
07-31-2015, 04:14 PM
The comments on this post that imply there are 'no real Few haters' are wrong. Of course they are silent while things go well, but the moment there is a downturn in the program (I.E. lose a couple disappointing games) they are not hesitant to stand up and be heard. I don't have the time or the ability to research the site and list hundreds of examples, but I KNOW they exist.

Come on. Does anyone who visits this site on a somewhat regular occasion deny that fact? If so, you are probably one of the Few bashers who is currently pacified.

Rangerzag
07-31-2015, 05:31 PM
For those of you who are bored, allow me to offer a change-up. Check out the website iss.astroviewer.net...seriously. It tracks the viewing opportunities of the ISS from a given location for 10-14 days.

Since I started following this website, I've had no urge whatsoever to criticize Coach Few.



There is also a great app for this (at least on the iphone) called "ISS Spotter". Very cool to use these tools and watch the ISS fly over!

I go to this site Heavens-Above:

http://www.heavens-above.com/main.aspx?lat=47.6653&lng=-117.399&loc=McCarthey+Athletic+Center&alt=576&tz=PST

Then under the Satellites and 10-day predictions for satellites of special interest area I pick ISS and get a display like this:

http://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=25544&lat=47.6653&lng=-117.399&loc=McCarthey+Athletic+Center&alt=576&tz=PST

DixieZag
07-31-2015, 06:02 PM
The comments on this post that imply there are 'no real Few haters' are wrong. Of course they are silent while things go well, but the moment there is a downturn in the program (I.E. lose a couple disappointing games) they are not hesitant to stand up and be heard. I don't have the time or the ability to research the site and list hundreds of examples, but I KNOW they exist.

Come on. Does anyone who visits this site on a somewhat regular occasion deny that fact? If so, you are probably one of the Few bashers who is currently pacified.

I have no idea if that is true but I would feel safe saying there are no Few haters who are alumni over 40. One would have to have seen where the program was to "get it."

Additionally, one can be furious about him going back to man-to-man from the zone in some hypothetical game all while being a "Few Forever Fanatic," hell, a guy can even say he's having a "bad year" and still be a "Few Forever Fanatic" - I recall someone doing that a few years ago, might of been me, not sure.

And if the board ever seems insane, that's because it's made up people.

Want to see real insanity? Just check out a mid-level SEC football board sometime, or check out the posts questioning Nick Saban's ability after last year's drubbing in the NC. 'Make this place seem like a book review in Harper's Magazine.

zagfan24
07-31-2015, 07:22 PM
The comments on this post that imply there are 'no real Few haters' are wrong. Of course they are silent while things go well, but the moment there is a downturn in the program (I.E. lose a couple disappointing games) they are not hesitant to stand up and be heard. I don't have the time or the ability to research the site and list hundreds of examples, but I KNOW they exist.

Come on. Does anyone who visits this site on a somewhat regular occasion deny that fact? If so, you are probably one of the Few bashers who is currently pacified.

You hit the nail on the head, IMO. It's easy to be supportive of Few and the program in light of an Elite 8. The reaction after a round of 32 exit tells me a lot more about how much one understands the extent of obstacles GU must overcome to be competitive in college BB. And of course this board can and should have discourse about coaching strategy, substitutions, etc. It can't be denied, however, that there are those out there who think this program would be better off without Mark Few around; which, IMHO, is too bad, because they are taking for granted what a blessing he has been to the program, to students, to alumni, to the university, and to the Spokane community.

Vanzagger
07-31-2015, 08:28 PM
For 3 1/2 years I was concerned and warned that his rotations and some line ups were not going to give us the best chance when it counted the most. Last year never a concern. I may have stuck up for Nunez a time or 2.

I know I made a lot of friends and ignore lists during those 3 1/2 years but once again please know it was never personal.

ProjectMKUltra5
07-31-2015, 08:56 PM
The thing that I really don't like is Fews nonchalance with the media in regards to winning. I know it makes alot of our older fans all giddy inside, the fact he's always talking about academics and developing splendid young men. He obviously cares deeply about that aspect but you know what else he cares about? WINNING. And winning big.

How do I know this? 438 wins, 14 conf titles, 12 conf tournament titles, 16 straight trips to the dance, and kicking down every door en route to building the program we have today. The man is a highly driven, highly competitive individual who has always aimed to put this program against the very best.

I wish he'd show that other side to the public. I wish he'd come out and talk about expecting to win national titles. Talk about how competitive the group is and how they walk onto the floor expecting to dominate. Any indication that winning is important, really. I know it's in there but the dude refuses to show it.

Zagdawg
07-31-2015, 09:36 PM
Sounds like you are looking for someone cocky...... like Calipari.......(he shows the side that you are looking for frequently).

Walters talks about how competitive his players are at San Francisco.......how much good does it do him to bring it up and try to reinforce the subject.

I prefer the confidence and pride in the school, the program and his team that Few shows.... over cockiness.

Just my opinion.

ProjectMKUltra5
07-31-2015, 10:03 PM
Sounds like you are looking for someone cocky...... like Calipari.......(he shows the side that you are looking for frequently).

Walters talks about how competitive his players are at San Francisco.......how much good does it do him to bring it up and try to reinforce the subject.

I prefer the confidence and pride in the school, the program and his team that Few shows.... over cockiness.

Just my opinion.

I find it telling that you see any talk of winning as being cocky like Calipari

Zagdawg
07-31-2015, 10:56 PM
Maybe Few spends a bit of time reading the bible while trying to instill a humble mindset in our team.

Some consider talking about how good you are as prideful.

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 11:2 When pride comes, then comes shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.

Proverbs 18:12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility.

Proverbs 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honor shall uphold the humble in spirit.


How did being cocky work out for Calipari this year--other than giving his opponents bulletin board material.....we all know how that ended up.

Martin Centre Mad Man
08-01-2015, 06:40 AM
Mark Few has the highest career winning percentage of any coach in the history of Division I basketball.

We can't do better than that.

DixieZag
08-01-2015, 07:59 AM
I wish he'd show that other side to the public. I wish he'd come out and talk about expecting to win national titles. Talk about how competitive the group is and how they walk onto the floor expecting to dominate. Any indication that winning is important, really. I know it's in there but the dude refuses to show it.

It seems that boiled right down to its essence, you want Few wearing his confidence and hunger on his sleeves, and without judging it (to each his own), you might just want to drop all hope on that aspect now.

I think it's Maynard who has this dialed in so perfectly. He's a minister's kid. He will not come out talking about all the wins he has and all the wins he's going to get, he's not going to do that any more than he is going to go buy the $200,000 Ferrari that he could afford. It's not in his essence.

I'm not sure why you think it would equal more wins, or NC's either. I see a lot of guys talk like that, in fact, I think I see more guys talk like that than guys that act like Few. But, leaving it with this, there's a theory that if he wasn't a minister's kid, one whose Dad stayed in the same church for 153 years, he'd have taken the UW job.

So, it's not going to happen, it might be best that he's wired the way he is. And, I am one of those older guys (44) who is quite happy he talks about "good kids" b/c, in all honesty, I'm not sure how much fin it would be, or how much pride I'd have in them, if players were in and out of jail, sticking their heads in front of every camera around, acting too cool for everyone else. We want to watch the Zags, not a young NBA team.

23zagmd
08-01-2015, 08:22 AM
The first thing that anyone has to ask if we for whatever crazy reason, fired Few is....."who gets hired to replace him"? The answer is NOT, we would have our choice! We wouldn't. I guarantee you that we would be hiring an unproven top ranked assistant from some other program around the country or hiring one of FEW's guys! Who, coincidentally would do things very similar to FEW!

The best point made was the one about understanding where this program came from and where it is today! I'm not convinced that MF is a Great college basketball coach and I'd even go as far as saying that we didn't make the FF because we didn't have the best coach!(that and two other reasons that I will put in another thread on officiating, great story) We played against the BEST coach and lost! However, as I sat thru a 8-20 1989-90 campaign that almost included losses to Montana NAIA schools, I never imagined that we would be on this run, with this coach.......People, enjoy the ride...cause as a good friend of mine who is an AAD at UW said....no program can maintain success and consistency when you string together 2-3 8-18 seasons!

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 09:57 AM
Maybe Few spends a bit of time reading the bible while trying to instill a humble mindset in our team.

Some consider talking about how good you are as prideful.

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 11:2 When pride comes, then comes shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.

Proverbs 18:12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility.

Proverbs 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honor shall uphold the humble in spirit.


How did being cocky work out for Calipari this year--other than giving his opponents bulletin board material.....we all know how that ended up.

Even if I said I wanted him to be like Calipari, which I didnt, your still wrong. Calipari has six Final 4s and a national title, I think that speaks to that attitude he instills in his teams.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 10:28 AM
I like how everyone just took what I said right to the other extreme. If your not a choirboy minister's son then you must be a money hungry, attention grabbing, a****** like Calipari or the like.

This fanbase is so damn snobby and elitist sometimes.

Zagdawg
08-01-2015, 10:41 AM
Its not the attitude that gets the wins --its the talent and development.

Being humble, instilling a great set of values and showing what you can do on and off the court goes much farther with many fans-- more than talking about how good you are and how you are going to beat everyone.

The main difference between the NBA "look at me-me-me culture" and the college team and community first mentality that Few instills in the team is what attracts many fans to the school and program.

The program is a representation of our college ---Few does a great job in putting the best foot forward for our school (no only does he win......he does it the right way).

We just need to agree to disagree on this topic.

gonzagafan62
08-01-2015, 10:59 AM
The thing that I really don't like is Fews nonchalance with the media in regards to winning. I know it makes alot of our older fans all giddy inside, the fact he's always talking about academics and developing splendid young men. He obviously cares deeply about that aspect but you know what else he cares about? WINNING. And winning big.

How do I know this? 438 wins, 14 conf titles, 12 conf tournament titles, 16 straight trips to the dance, and kicking down every door en route to building the program we have today. The man is a highly driven, highly competitive individual who has always aimed to put this program against the very best.

I wish he'd show that other side to the public. I wish he'd come out and talk about expecting to win national titles. Talk about how competitive the group is and how they walk onto the floor expecting to dominate. Any indication that winning is important, really. I know it's in there but the dude refuses to show it.

He doesn't need to show anything. A great poker player never shows his real face.... Plus we already saw part of it leaked by wiltjer. What more do you need

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 11:02 AM
Its not the attitude that gets the wins --its the talent and development.

Being humble, instilling a great set of values and showing what you can do on and off the court goes much farther with many fans-- more than talking about how good you are and how you are going to beat everyone.

The main difference between the NBA "look at me-me-me culture" and the college team and community first mentality that Few instills in the team is what attracts many fans to the school and program.

The program is a representation of our college ---Few does a great job in putting the best foot forward for our school (no only does he win......he does it the right way).

We just need to agree to disagree on this topic.

This is 100% wrong. Confidence is of the upmost importance for an athlete to compete at their highest levels. The fact that Calipari is willing to come out publically and talk about winning national titles and talk about how good his teams are is a HUGE vote of confidence for his players. To think that his teams don't take on his brash arrogant personality and play with an edge because of it is incredibly nieve.

maynard g krebs
08-01-2015, 11:09 AM
Mark Few is a genius in terms of evaluating players' potential for improvement and feel for the game. As one of his players said last year, he's also an offensive genius.

Comparing him to K or Calipari is pointless because he hasn't had the same level of talent, or played the same level of competition in Jan and Feb.

In the modern era, say the last 30 years, not one coach outside the power conferences has built a program that is the equal of GU. Not one.

When I started following the team seriously in the 97-98 season, I would not have thought it remotely possible that the team would be at the level it is today. I just liked the way they play, and thought I'd be rooting for under the radar Northwest kids and a few imports who could pass and shoot the 3 and might get the occasional March upset.

Conference affiliation, arena size, revenue, all said what has happened are logically next to impossible. It took a true visionary to believe otherwise.

In the last few years recruiting has gone to another level, and there now seems to be the talent to match up with the big boys in March. There have been what, maybe 2 top 25 recruiting classes so far? (I consider Sabonis/Perkins et al top 10.) So performance has far outpaced talent level to now. It will be interesting to see what happens with an elite frontcourt and talented but largely inexperienced guards.

No human being is perfect, and my one criticism, a common one, is that his teams sometimes get too conservative down the stretch and play tight. But my career coaching record is 2-5 coaching 5th graders on Saturday mornings when I was on the hs jv in 1970, so I'll stipulate that he probably knows a bit more than I do on the topic.

seacatfan
08-01-2015, 12:18 PM
I think there is a fairly large distinction between talking about winning a National Title as if you expect to and stating that winning a Title is your goal. As I understand it, some are frustrated with Few's refusal to talk about goals of winning big in March publicly. I think we've established that Few is a competitive guy and wants to win...so why be coy with the media and pretend it doesn't matter?

seacatfan
08-01-2015, 12:20 PM
I would say what Tarkanian built at UNLV before the NCAA took him down far exceeded what has been accomplished at Gonzaga, and they were far from being in a power conference. And that has been within the last 30 years.

Bogozags
08-01-2015, 12:26 PM
Mark Few is a genius in terms of evaluating players' potential for improvement and feel for the game. As one of his players said last year, he's also an offensive genius.

Comparing him to K or Calipari is pointless because he hasn't had the same level of talent, or played the same level of competition in Jan and Feb.

In the modern era, say the last 30 years, not one coach outside the power conferences has built a program that is the equal of GU. Not one.

When I started following the team seriously in the 97-98 season, I would not have thought it remotely possible that the team would be at the level it is today. I just liked the way they play, and thought I'd be rooting for under the radar Northwest kids and a few imports who could pass and shoot the 3 and might get the occasional March upset.

Conference affiliation, arena size, revenue, all said what has happened are logically next to impossible. It took a true visionary to believe otherwise.

In the last few years recruiting has gone to another level, and there now seems to be the talent to match up with the big boys in March. There have been what, maybe 2 top 25 recruiting classes so far? (I consider Sabonis/Perkins et al top 10.) So performance has far outpaced talent level to now. It will be interesting to see what happens with an elite frontcourt and talented but largely inexperienced guards.

No human being is perfect, and my one criticism, a common one, is that his teams sometimes get too conservative down the stretch and play tight. But my career coaching record is 2-5 coaching 5th graders on Saturday mornings when I was on the hs jv in 1970, so I'll stipulate that he probably knows a bit more than I do on the topic.

Super post!!!

23dpg
08-01-2015, 12:43 PM
I would say what Tarkanian built at UNLV before the NCAA took him down far exceeded what has been accomplished at Gonzaga, and they were far from being in a power conference. And that has been within the last 30 years.

I would agree that his teams were better, NC quality. But I wouldn't agree to it at Gonzaga if it meant doing it the way that Tark did it.
I'm not blasting Tark. I just prefer the Few way.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 01:25 PM
I really question how many of you would be here cheering for GU if that basketball team was built on the backs of kids from the Central District or Rainier Beach. Not a bit of empathy for kids that come from less fortunate back rounds imo.

Zagdawg
08-01-2015, 01:46 PM
Doesn't matter what school or socio economic background a student comes from......when they join the Zag family they are Zags.

Not sure what you are trying to turn this thread into.....sounds like you have some other issues that you need to work through.

Angelo Roncalli
08-01-2015, 01:50 PM
I really question how many of you would be here cheering for GU if that basketball team was built on the backs of kids from the Central District or Rainier Beach.

If it it was built on the backs of guys like Vanoy Overton, Doug Wrenn, Nate Robinson, Brandon Roy, the Stewarts, or Tony Wroten, I'd pass.

23dpg
08-01-2015, 01:55 PM
If it it was built on the backs of guys like Vanoy Overton, Doug Wrenn, Nate Robinson, Brandon Roy, the Stewarts, or Tony Wroten, I'd pass.

AGREE!!!, agree, huh?, HUH??? agree and agree.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 02:49 PM
If it it was built on the backs of guys like Vanoy Overton, Doug Wrenn, Nate Robinson, Brandon Roy, the Stewarts, or Tony Wroten, I'd pass.

I know, why would you take a chance on a kid from an impoverished neighborhood and give him an opportunity to get an education and make something of themselves.

It just doesn't make any sense. Coaches who do that are ruining the game.

DixieZag
08-01-2015, 02:53 PM
I really question how many of you would be here cheering for GU if that basketball team was built on the backs of kids from the Central District or Rainier Beach. Not a bit of empathy for kids that come from less fortunate back rounds imo.

Well, if there is one thing Zag fans are known for it's lack of empathy for kids coming from hard backgrounds. I think you're getting your stereotypes confused. A guy named Anthony Reason, or, hell, have Pargo explain Zagdom to you.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 03:30 PM
Well, if there is one thing Zag fans are known for it's lack of empathy for kids coming from hard backgrounds. I think you're getting your stereotypes confused. A guy named Anthony Reason, or, hell, have Pargo explain Zagdom to you.


You just named 2 players in 16 years, that's hardly zag fans hoping on the inner city bandwagon.

If the majority of our rosters was made up from inner city kids trying to make something of themselves a good chunk of this fanbase wouldn't be here. Maybe not you, but a decent amount of our fans like GU solely for the fact that they think it represents everything college basketball should be. It's rather sad if you ask me.

jazzdelmar
08-01-2015, 03:55 PM
I'm from Brooklyn. Both my sons played in the toughest high school league and on the toughest asphalt playgrounds in the country. You sir have no idea what you're talking about. You are generalizing and stereotyping way out of control. Zags are every bit as hard nosed and determined to make something of themselves as any young man from Christ the King or Lincoln or Molloy.




You just named 2 players in 16 years, that's hardly zag fans hoping on the inner city bandwagoAn.

If the majority of our rosters was made up from inner city kids trying to make something of themselves a good chunk of this fanbase wouldn't be here. Maybe not you, but a decent amount of our fans like GU solely for the fact that they think it represents everything college basketball should be. It's rather sad if you ask me.

Hoopaholic
08-01-2015, 04:42 PM
I really question how many of you would be here cheering for GU if that basketball team was built on the backs of kids from the Central District or Rainier Beach. Not a bit of empathy for kids that come from less fortunate back rounds imo.

All I can say is wow...you have no clue

maynard g krebs
08-01-2015, 04:43 PM
I would say what Tarkanian built at UNLV before the NCAA took him down far exceeded what has been accomplished at Gonzaga, and they were far from being in a power conference. And that has been within the last 30 years.

You're right of course. Thanks for the correction.

Gonezagaga
08-01-2015, 04:57 PM
You just named 2 players in 16 years, that's hardly zag fans hoping on the inner city bandwagon.

If the majority of our rosters was made up from inner city kids trying to make something of themselves a good chunk of this fanbase wouldn't be here. Maybe not you, but a decent amount of our fans like GU solely for the fact that they think it represents everything college basketball should be. It's rather sad if you ask me.

Mr. Project, it works both ways. Let's talk about all the kids from the areas you have mentioned that were recruited by Gonzaga. They have to decide to come here or they have ZERO chance to be cheered for by our fan base. You are putting the cart before the horse, sir. Unless you are trying to convey that GU does not try for any kids from lower socio economic backgrounds, but I think we would have a different opinion on that as well.

sheps001
08-01-2015, 05:01 PM
I'm from Chicago but went to GU Law. Here we had a real good coach named Ray Meyer who reminds me a lot of Few. Meyer didn't get his proper recognition until he made it into a final four. This would be my litmus test for Few or any coach. Sort of like winning a major in golf. Its doable this year. GU Final Four. Lets do it!

seacatfan
08-01-2015, 05:08 PM
I would agree that his teams were better, NC quality. But I wouldn't agree to it at Gonzaga if it meant doing it the way that Tark did it.
I'm not blasting Tark. I just prefer the Few way.

I figured that was coming as soon as I mentioned Tark. I do agree with you.

seacatfan
08-01-2015, 05:11 PM
If it it was built on the backs of guys like Vanoy Overton, Doug Wrenn, Nate Robinson, Brandon Roy, the Stewarts, or Tony Wroten, I'd pass.

Whoa, wait a minute. Some of those aren't the same as the others. Overton of course was a train wreck. Wrenn and Wroten had some issues too I remember. The Stewarts' problems mostly had to do with a meddlesome father. But I'm aware of no issues whatsoever with Robinson or Roy. Roy especially, can't see what problem you could have with him...? In fact I'll go ahead and go on record as saying if Roy had gone to GU, he would be one of the all time favorite Zags. And yeah Robinson was cocky and a bit over the top...but there was some guy that went to GU named Morrison that seemed to turn off a lot of people who weren't GU fans. Just sayin'.

gonzagafan62
08-01-2015, 05:23 PM
All I can say is wow...you have no clue

Me too.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 06:01 PM
Whoa, wait a minute. Some of those aren't the same as the others. Overton of course was a train wreck. Wrenn and Wroten had some issues too I remember. The Stewarts' problems mostly had to do with a meddlesome father. But I'm aware of no issues whatsoever with Robinson or Roy. Roy especially, can't see what problem you could have with him...? In fact I'll go ahead and go on record as saying if Roy had gone to GU, he would be one of the all time favorite Zags. And yeah Robinson was cocky and a bit over the top...but there was some guy that went to GU named Morrison that seemed to turn off a lot of people who weren't GU fans. Just sayin'.

Doesn't suprise me whatsoever.

seacatfan
08-01-2015, 06:15 PM
Doesn't suprise me whatsoever.

Maybe you do have a point and some posters here just have a thing against any kid from inner city Seattle. What would happen if GU ever signed a kid from Seattle? Would they change their opinion as long it was one of their own?

Hey, wait just a minute. Errol Knight was from Chief Sealth HS in...Seattle. Does that mean we were supposed to hate him? I wonder if he hadn't transfered to GU and stayed at UW if he would've been included on the list with the other former Huskies?

But all joking aside...Brandon Roy, I just can't get over that one. The Blazers built their franchise around him to rehab their image after a bunch of troublemakers earned them the nickname of Jailblazers. He delivered perfectly, the fans loved him and came back to supporting the team. I cannot think of one negative thing anyone could say about him.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-01-2015, 06:33 PM
Maybe you do have a point and some posters here just have a thing against any kid from inner city Seattle. What would happen if GU ever signed a kid from Seattle? Would they change their opinion as long it was one of their own?

Hey, wait just a minute. Errol Knight was from Chief Sealth HS in...Seattle. Does that mean we were supposed to hate him? I wonder if he hadn't transfered to GU and stayed at UW if he would've been included on the list with the other former Huskies?

But all joking aside...Brandon Roy, I just can't get over that one. The Blazers built their franchise around him to rehab their image after a bunch of troublemakers earned them the nickname of Jailblazers. He delivered perfectly, the fans loved him and came back to supporting the team. I cannot think of one negative thing anyone could say about him.

Overton and Wrenn are the only two he listed that you should really stay away from. In the case of the Stewarts, I don't know how you could blame a kid who's father is misleading him in their recruitment.

Robinson was arrested for urinating in public, so there's that.

23zagmd
08-02-2015, 02:00 PM
Brandon Roy and Nate R. are SUPER people. Know them both pretty well and have worked with Brandon on a potential project here in Seattle. Stand up guy, who was super close to going to GU, had Rich Padden had his way!


Whoa, wait a minute. Some of those aren't the same as the others. Overton of course was a train wreck. Wrenn and Wroten had some issues too I remember. The Stewarts' problems mostly had to do with a meddlesome father. But I'm aware of no issues whatsoever with Robinson or Roy. Roy especially, can't see what problem you could have with him...? In fact I'll go ahead and go on record as saying if Roy had gone to GU, he would be one of the all time favorite Zags. And yeah Robinson was cocky and a bit over the top...but there was some guy that went to GU named Morrison that seemed to turn off a lot of people who weren't GU fans. Just sayin'.

MDABE80
08-02-2015, 02:51 PM
You just named 2 players in 16 years, that's hardly zag fans hoping on the inner city bandwagon.

If the majority of our rosters was made up from inner city kids trying to make something of themselves a good chunk of this fanbase wouldn't be here. Maybe not you, but a decent amount of our fans like GU solely for the fact that they think it represents everything college basketball should be. It's rather sad if you ask me.

Hard to believe I missed this one. No.....it's just not the case. Few doesn't court what looks like trouble. We've turn away from serious troubled spots......and this is the way it should be. We, as fans, support what he puts on the court. If kids come to GU with good hearts, good will, talent and can play, we take em if they can compete. I doubt that many on your list above could compete effectively against most of our kids.....Brandon Roy could and we tried hard to get him. One of my fav players. In general though, being from the "inner city" is not a qualifer or a non qualifier. ANyone with a brain takes kids that can play well and don't look like trouble. What's the "rub"? It sounds like you're saying we refuse kids from inner city because they're disqualifed just because they're inner city kids? Nonsense. Multiple factors and multiple interviews hold sway.

deathchina
08-02-2015, 03:19 PM
I think what ProjectMKUltra5 is trying to say is that we have one of the "whitest" teams in college basketball (probably the "whitest" successful program for the last decade) and there is an element of the Gonzaga fan base who enjoys seeing a team of mostly white kids beat teams made up of mostly black kids.

Sort of the "great white hope" idea projected onto an entire team.

I know this isn't why I personally root for Gonzaga, but I have heard enough comments while sporting my GU gear over the years to know that we do have appeal to a certain crowd....

And can we stop using "zag material" to describe the character of potential recruits? It makes us seem incredibly naive.



And I think MF would love to have more of the prime Seattle area talent coming to Gonzaga but it just hasn't worked out....They don't want to come.

seacatfan
08-02-2015, 03:54 PM
And I think MF would love to have more of the prime Seattle area talent coming to Gonzaga but it just hasn't worked out....They don't want to come.

I think that's exactly right. Murray and Thybulle were a couple of recent potential recruits from the Seattle area that declined to come to GU. I'm sure there have been quite a few over the years.

Vanzagger
08-02-2015, 05:03 PM
some great points from all on here. Bottom line is we have been able to pluck talented kids from all over this sphere. We are talented and diverse. I think after some Big 10 schools gave up on Pargo and we stuck with him is very telling.

Zagdawg
08-02-2015, 05:17 PM
Not sure about the racial insinuations -- the staff recruits the best players regardless of race and location.

This year we had 6 Caucasian players and 7 African American players on scholarship.

I'm thinking the Zags are doing fine with the players that want to come here -- you can offer the scholarship --but if they do not want to come to a winning program in Spokane/play in the WCC-- there is not a lot that you can do to change their minds. Recruiting the US, Canada and Europe works for the Zags and we are bringing in good quality players.

ZagLawGrad
08-02-2015, 06:39 PM
I really question how many of you would be here cheering for GU if that basketball team was built on the backs of kids from the Central District or Rainier Beach. Not a bit of empathy for kids that come from less fortunate back rounds imo.

I doubt any of those guys ever gave the Zags a moment of thought as a place to go to college. Annoy Overton was a complete train wreck, but I would have liked to have seen Peyton Siva as a Bulldog. Roy and Robinson were good players, but again they were never going to come to Spokane.

TexasZagFan
08-03-2015, 05:43 AM
I think what ProjectMKUltra5 is trying to say is that we have one of the "whitest" teams in college basketball (probably the "whitest" successful program for the last decade) and there is an element of the Gonzaga fan base who enjoys seeing a team of mostly white kids beat teams made up of mostly black kids.

Sort of the "great white hope" idea projected onto an entire team.

I know this isn't why I personally root for Gonzaga, but I have heard enough comments while sporting my GU gear over the years to know that we do have appeal to a certain crowd....

And can we stop using "zag material" to describe the character of potential recruits? It makes us seem incredibly naive.



And I think MF would love to have more of the prime Seattle area talent coming to Gonzaga but it just hasn't worked out....They don't want to come.

Until we start seeing more blacks come from Europe, like Ronny and Elias, the racial insinuations shall remain baseless IMO. Reminds me of my dear mother making remarks about the ethnicity of the young ladies I was dating...I finally told her, "Mom, in case you didn't know, there aren't many blue-eyed blondes in El Paso." She changed her tune, though, and she dearly loves her "little brown ones."

Not to hijack the thread, but playing the race card is a nonstarter with me.

kitzbuel
08-03-2015, 09:55 AM
I think what ProjectMKUltra5 is trying to say is that we have one of the "whitest" teams in college basketball (probably the "whitest" successful program for the last decade) and there is an element of the Gonzaga fan base who enjoys seeing a team of mostly white kids beat teams made up of mostly black kids.

Sort of the "great white hope" idea projected onto an entire team.

I know this isn't why I personally root for Gonzaga, but I have heard enough comments while sporting my GU gear over the years to know that we do have appeal to a certain crowd....

And can we stop using "zag material" to describe the character of potential recruits? It makes us seem incredibly naive.



And I think MF would love to have more of the prime Seattle area talent coming to Gonzaga but it just hasn't worked out....They don't want to come.

I actually think there is something to the 'zag material.' Not every player is going to buy in to coming to Spokane. It is culturally very different than many of the urban population centers that are considered basketball hotbeds. Kids have to be willing to move out of their comfort zone and move into a culturally and often racially different environment. Obviously, players from the Inland Empire/Rocky Mountain regions are going to fit in much more easily and GU has had better success recruiting there. But players from from other regions need different motivation to make the transition. Players tend to keep to their comfort zones, GU has to find those kids who are willing to move away from their comfort zones.

I came across this article and found it very enlightening when looking at GU's challenges in attracting talent from what are considered traditional basketball recruiting hotbeds. http://deadspin.com/infographics-where-do-high-school-basketball-stars-com-5984694

seacatfan
08-03-2015, 10:59 AM
It is culturally very different than many of the urban population centers that are considered basketball hotbeds. Kids have to be willing to move out of their comfort zone and move into a culturally and often racially different environment.

There's something to that, but then you look at programs like UConn and Kansas. I don't think Storrs or Lawrence are exactly major metro areas but they've been able to recruit at a high level for a long time. The program itself is often the draw, not where the campus is located.

TexasZagFan
08-03-2015, 11:16 AM
I actually think there is something to the 'zag material.' Not every player is going to buy in to coming to Spokane. It is culturally very different than many of the urban population centers that are considered basketball hotbeds. Kids have to be willing to move out of their comfort zone and move into a culturally and often racially different environment. Obviously, players from the Inland Empire/Rocky Mountain regions are going to fit in much more easily and GU has had better success recruiting there. But players from from other regions need different motivation to make the transition. Players tend to keep to their comfort zones, GU has to find those kids who are willing to move away from their comfort zones.

I came across this article and found it very enlightening when looking at GU's challenges in attracting talent from what are considered traditional basketball recruiting hotbeds. http://deadspin.com/infographics-where-do-high-school-basketball-stars-com-5984694

Over the past couple of years, my 13YO son has learned for himself that he is 'Zag material', so much so that his goals have changed from matriculating at UT Austin to playing PG for the Zags. Realistic goal? Not yet. The community we live in is, as I've explained ad nauseum is hyper competitive (most known product is Jett Raines - Pepperdine), and he's admittedly a late bloomer. He made his 7th grade team on grit and the willingness to rebound, dive for loose balls, set screens, etc. He rarely touches the ball, and I've only seen a couple of times where he forced a shot. He takes his shots within the flow of the game...at the 7th grade level, that means he doesn't get many shots off. He's been much more aggressive in practice, and eventually that will transfer to games.

He's shown exponential growth over the past year through participation in multiple camps.

I'd rather he focus on basketball, but his first love is football. There are more opportunities to play at the HS level than basketball: two (sometimes three) freshman teams, two JV teams, and the varsity.

ETA: at his last camp, I saw a kid from Fort Smith, AR. I'm going to keep an eye out for this name: Darius Phillips, 13, 6'2", with a shooter's touch. Undoubtedly some room to grow, and he had a big grin on his face when he saw my Gonzaga shirt. He was a level above the other campers. He and my son got along well together during 3-on-3 drills. His parents drove him down to North Dallas strictly for this three day camp.

kitzbuel
08-03-2015, 01:20 PM
There's something to that, but then you look at programs like UConn and Kansas. I don't think Storrs or Lawrence are exactly major metro areas but they've been able to recruit at a high level for a long time. The program itself is often the draw, not where the campus is located.

They do indeed have established programs that help overcome their location - GU is working on that, consistent performance is getting us there.

Also, neither of them are really that far from urban centers - UCONN is a couple hours from the Bronx, Lawrence is just about a Kansas City suburb. Plus, if you look at that link I posted, both Kansas and Connecticut are among the leaders in keeping their top talent in-state.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--eTpqtzE2--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18hv8couh77hipng.png

LongIslandZagFan
08-05-2015, 08:13 AM
+1

There's a difference between "bashing" Few and having high expectations. Sadly lots of fans can't recognize the difference between the two.

Tell that to the folks that run the Fire Mark Few Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fire-Mark-Few/497967640264616)

Zags11
08-08-2015, 08:05 PM
Goodness gracias. I am glad few is our coach, but disagreeing isnt a few hater either. Well back to being depressed on mariners.

kclubfounder
08-09-2015, 09:42 AM
I'd like to see Nigel Williams-Goss in a Zag uniform.

ProjectMKUltra5
08-11-2015, 12:56 PM
I just found this little gem in a thread about Zach Lavine.


very few kids in 206 QUALIFY to play in 509 of Spokane...on court ability, integrity, ethics, approach, mindset, educational values, classroom attention ect....and I dont want our standards to lower simply to get a one and done (which have a tendency to be missing many of the above attributes except the first)

Zagdawg
08-11-2015, 12:59 PM
Beat that horse



Tacos are nice

ProjectMKUltra5
08-11-2015, 01:05 PM
Beat that horse

Accountability can be a pain in the arse