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View Full Version : CBS top 25+1 05- 20- 15



flytiezag
05-20-2015, 08:17 PM
Way to early but nice to be in top 10. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/top25

Coach Crazy
05-20-2015, 08:26 PM
Way to early but nice to be in top 10. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/top25

We're better than 6-9.

gonzagafan62
05-20-2015, 08:46 PM
Only two problems here.

1. A Marcus Paige UNC team is not even close to being #1 team in college badketball. It's a complete joke.
2. Gonzaga is way are more talented than all of Uncs players. Not close

CaliforniaZaggin'
05-20-2015, 08:52 PM
We lose two four-year starters and the best SF we've had since Micah Downs, and we're thumbing our noses at a ore-season top 10 ranking. Hmmmm.

MDABE80
05-20-2015, 09:28 PM
Yes Cal but we also have 2 skilled 4 yr players in emac and dranginis........adding josh is gravy. In perspective, I think we'd win the Pac 12 if we were in that league. WCC and Mountain West too.
I do think we're set for bigs and guards with a solid bench. I do believe we'll have another addition.
We're set. Best bigs in college. Guards are strong. I'm glad we're top 10 at this point but I do think we're better than that.
Fly thanks for the find.

Coach Crazy
05-20-2015, 11:01 PM
We lose two four-year starters and the best SF we've had since Micah Downs, and we're thumbing our noses at a ore-season top 10 ranking. Hmmmm.

If Dranginis is able to maintain his efficiency with an increase in minutes, he'll be an upgrade over BW. As well, that experience line of thinking has been overplayed. We're gaining a physically superior guard that is more dynamic at the point. As far as GBJ goes, take a look at E-Mac's Per/100's and Per/40's. Bryan Alberts are really the biggest question marks, but that isn't anything out of the ordinary.

Don't forget, we are also adding a 7'1" center to the mix.

And if we are gonna talk about what we are losing, let us also not forget about the fact that our 3 returning bigs will likely be better. We're Top 5.

jazzdelmar
05-21-2015, 05:46 AM
Top 5 for sure......better at all positions via either maturation upfront or slew of new, higher ceiling players. KD can def top BW but why not pull in an even better player at the SF? KD is proven commodity as first off the bench. His ball handling and below average LD shooting a concern; intangibles are great, cf: Mike Hart, but you need potency at the 3.

raise the zag
05-21-2015, 08:29 AM
Meanwhile, the other CBS analyst -- Jon Rothstein -- doesn't even have us in his Top-25. Not even in his "borderline" teams.

I called him out on Twitter and he responded by stating, "they lost too much experience in the backcourt for him to trust the Zags next season".

I mentioned the 40+ ppg we return in the front court and he simply said, "yeah but don't know who is going to get them the ball".

He's convinced the Zags aren't Top-25.

Fine, yet I sincerely hope he's eating crow by Christmas next season -- I won't forget him not including us nor respecting Wiltjer/Sabonis/Karno enough to even crack his Top 30 teams!

Sheesh.

CDC84
05-21-2015, 08:43 AM
It appears as though Rothstein has changed his mind:

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/599922709271867392

He now has GU at #13. He could start in the backcourt with Gary Parrish, and GU would still be a top 25 team with the frontcourt they have.

raise the zag
05-21-2015, 08:50 AM
It appears as though Rothstein has changed his mind:

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/599922709271867392

He now has GU at #13. He could start in the backcourt with Gary Parrish, and GU would still be a top 25 team with the frontcourt they have.

Nice!

I probably sent him 4 or 5 tweets awhile back explaining who Josh Perkins is/was, Eric McClellan, & to watch some clips of Silas Melson. Not to mention undervaluing our front court as an entirety -- we almost beat Duke with literally 0 pts/help via guards that day, save defense from GBJ.

Maybe it worked (at least I'd like to think so:o)

jazzdelmar
05-21-2015, 09:18 AM
Nice!

I probably sent him 4 or 5 tweets awhile back explaining who Josh Perkins is/was, Eric McClellan, & to watch some clips of Silas Melson. Not to mention undervaluing our front court as an entirety -- we almost beat Duke with literally 0 pts/help via guards that day, save defense from GBJ.

Maybe it worked (at least I'd like to think so:o)

You done good, Raise. On the Dook game, who exactly did GB stop?

hooter73
05-21-2015, 09:25 AM
Lol thats a good way to put how the Duke game went.

ProjectMKUltra5
05-21-2015, 10:03 AM
Top 5 for sure......better at all positions via either maturation upfront or slew of new, higher ceiling players. KD can def top BW but why not pull in an even better player at the SF? KD is proven commodity as first off the bench. His ball handling and below average LD shooting a concern; intangibles are great, cf: Mike Hart, but you need potency at the 3.

Dranginis has already proven he's a significantly better offensive player then Mike Hart so I'm not even sure why this comp is gaining traction. For real, ya'll forget how limited Hart was on offense. Hart had 49 career three point attempts, Dranginis had 47 last season alone and 153 in his career at GU. Mike Hart had a usage rate of 4.8% his senior year, Dranginis had a usage rate of 13.2% last year.

Not to mention that Dranginis has improved his efficiency and production every year, I don't see how anybody is worried about HIM specifically. Question the other inexperienced guys on the perimeter but Dranginis is rock solid.

CDC84
05-21-2015, 10:12 AM
The question is whether Dranginis can produce with that kind of efficiency with greater minutes and additional responsibility. I think he can, but it has yet to be proven.

KD shot 39% from three his sophomore year (he shot 25 more threes his sophomore year compared to last year), so he has it in him.

I think the most underrated aspect of this team going into next season will be the perimeter defense. This could be the best perimeter defensive team GU has had under Few. There are two genuine stoppers in Dranginis and McClellan, and every perimeter in the starting lineup will be 6-3 or taller. No more undersized guards that can be exploited. The perimeters will be energized on defense by all the size in the middle protecting the rim. Even if GU isn't as effective on offense next season, they'll gain on defense. And if they don't gain on defense, they have nothing but themselves to blame. This team should be in the top 12 in defensive efficiency next season.....no excuses.

jazzdelmar
05-21-2015, 10:13 AM
Dranginis has already proven he's a significantly better offensive player then Mike Hart so I'm not even sure why this comp is gaining traction. For real, ya'll forget how limited Hart was on offense. Hart had 49 career three point attempts, Dranginis had 47 last season alone and 153 in his career at GU. Mike Hart had a usage rate of 4.8% his senior year, Dranginis had a usage rate of 13.2% last year.

Not to mention that Dranginis has improved his efficiency and production every year, I don't see how anybody is worried about HIM specifically. Question the other inexperienced guys on the perimeter but Dranginis is rock solid.

It wasn't a Hart vs KD comp. point was intangibles, for which both Hart and KD are rightly praised, go only so far. KD yet to prove he can hit LD with consistency and confidence to take big shot, as he did vs UCLA which was a revelation. If Few can get a more polished three and still have KD off bench, that's more better for Zags, imo.

DixieZag
05-21-2015, 11:47 AM
It wasn't a Hart vs KD comp. point was intangibles, for which both Hart and KD are rightly praised, go only so far. KD yet to prove he can hit LD with consistency and confidence to take big shot, as he did vs UCLA which was a revelation. If Few can get a more polished three and still have KD off bench, that's more better for Zags, imo.

With the little I know, I'd want KD starting and the three ball guy coming off the bench.

I really think KD is going to be the one who takes the biggest step up, not DS, not JP, not SM, I think Drainginis will thrive not under the shadow of Pangos/Bell.

SteelZag
05-21-2015, 12:05 PM
The question is whether Dranginis can produce with that kind of efficiency with greater minutes and additional responsibility. I think he can, but it has yet to be proven.

KD shot 39% from three his sophomore year (he shot 25 more threes his sophomore year compared to last year), so he has it in him.

I think the most underrated aspect of this team going into next season will be the perimeter defense. This could be the best perimeter defensive team GU has had under Few. There are two genuine stoppers in Dranginis and McClellan, and every perimeter in the starting lineup will be 6-3 or taller. No more undersized guards that can be exploited. The perimeters will be energized on defense by all the size in the middle protecting the rim. Even if GU isn't as effective on offense next season, they'll gain on defense. And if they don't gain on defense, they have nothing but themselves to blame. This team should be in the top 12 in defensive efficiency next season.....no excuses.

I'm not sure more minutes and responsibility would be a problem for Kyle. While starting when GBJ was injured during Kyle's sophomore season, I'm not sure Kyle could have played much better. He shot 55% from the floor and 37% from 3. He averaged 4.9 rebounds and 4.1 assists. The Zags lost only one game during this stretch, a game in which Kyle was 3-4 from the field. He also tossed in 5 reb, 6 assists, 2 steals and 1 blk along with only 2TO. A fine nights work in my book.

TexasZagFan
05-21-2015, 12:15 PM
It appears as though Rothstein has changed his mind:

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/599922709271867392

He now has GU at #13. He could start in the backcourt with Gary Parrish, and GU would still be a top 25 team with the frontcourt they have.

You could start me in the backcourt and we'd still be top 25. Of course, I'd make sure there was a stoppage of play seconds after the tip. I used to have a mean jumper from the top of the key.

Give me the summer, and I'll be shooting daggers again. :lmao:

jazzdelmar
05-21-2015, 12:35 PM
With the little I know, I'd want KD starting and the three ball guy coming off the bench.

I really think KD is going to be the one who takes the biggest step up, not DS, not JP, not SM, I think Drainginis will thrive not under the shadow of Pangos/Bell.

Dix, you're a true believer. In his fifth year in the program, you actually think KD has that much of an upside beyond what we've seen?

TexasZagFan
05-21-2015, 12:47 PM
Dix, you're a true believer. In his fifth year in the program, you actually think KD has that much of an upside beyond what we've seen?

Excellent coming off the bench. He'll thrive as the first or second off the bench. Our starting five will be beastly. Shoot, I'll say it now: we're a top 5 team next year.

gonzagafan62
05-21-2015, 12:50 PM
Dix, you're a true believer. In his fifth year in the program, you actually think KD has that much of an upside beyond what we've seen?

Did dower impress you at all after his fourth year in the program to make you believe he would be clutch guy his fifth year? Hitting down and wanting the ball his senior year and nearly single handily winning the wcc tournament? An that Ice water shot in Santa Clara's bingo hall?

I think I'm on the Draino train. I've seen it before. Not that I'm right. I might be wrong. Who knows.

jazzdelmar
05-21-2015, 01:00 PM
Did dower impress you at all after his fourth year in the program to make you believe he would be clutch guy his fifth year? Hitting down and wanting the ball his senior year and nearly single handily winning the wcc tournament? An that Ice water shot in Santa Clara's bingo hall?

I think I'm on the Draino train. I've seen it before. Not that I'm right. I might be wrong. Who knows.

No comp w Dowers track, 62, sorry. SD showed plenty of brilliant moments pre senior year, so much that even as a soph it would have been a plus to have him start. Personnel wise that wasn't there. KD has had ample opportunity to lay claim to the SF the past several years and has come up short in Fews mind, forget about mine. Hence the recruitment of a bevy of SFs which one hopes is ongoing. So apples and oranges, IMO.

bigblahla
05-21-2015, 01:07 PM
Jazz ol buddy have to disagree about coming up short in coaches mind....Kyle has played his role to perfection...in the past two seasons he has shown to be a glue guy with minor glitches....his lack of scoring is because he was not the 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th or even 5th option...not worried at all about his ability to put the ball in the basket and no one here should be....Draino has made some very impressive athletic plays and had his share of brain farts but 2015-16 he is going to shine....all in on Draino...

Go!! Zags!!!

gonzagafan62
05-21-2015, 01:21 PM
No comp w Dowers track, 62, sorry. SD showed plenty of brilliant moments pre senior year, so much that even as a soph it would have been a plus to have him start. Personnel wise that wasn't there. KD has had ample opportunity to lay claim to the SF the past several years and has come up short in Fews mind, forget about mine. Hence the recruitment of a bevy of SFs which one hopes is ongoing. So apples and oranges, IMO.

That is very true. Good points.

jazzdelmar
05-21-2015, 01:46 PM
Jazz ol buddy have to disagree about coming up short in coaches mind....Kyle has played his role to perfection...in the past two seasons he has shown to be a glue guy with minor glitches....his lack of scoring is because he was not the 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th or even 5th option...not worried at all about his ability to put the ball in the basket and no one here should be....Draino has made some very impressive athletic plays and had his share of brain farts but 2015-16 he is going to shine....all in on Draino...

Go!! Zags!!!


Blah, coming up short as a starter, not as a super sub. Why did Few get BW if he was sold on KD as a STARTING three?

bigblahla
05-21-2015, 02:48 PM
Hey Jazz, Is an A+ better than an A....Wesley was manna from heaven and Coach ain't no fool....Kyle has been groomed in the system for this year....you and I see him differently as you don't think he is athletic and have stated such here....I've seen him make some incredible athletic plays over the last two seasons....It has never been about Kyle and I doubt it will be this year as for him it's about TEAM and winning....I believe Kyle is a leader through action not through words....he knows what he needs to do and is fully capable of doing it against top competition....As far as starting doubt it matters to Kyle...I expect his minutes to increase as he is a jack of all trades on the court....to be a great TEAM player you have to be a great TEAM player so before you ask, no, I don't believe he has to be the master of one as his complete game makes him an asset whenever he is on the court.....but then again ol buddy that's just my opinion. :)

Go!! Zags!!!

jazzdelmar
05-21-2015, 02:56 PM
Hey Jazz, Is an A+ better than an A....Wesley was manna from heaven and Coach ain't no fool....Kyle has been groomed in the system for this year....you and I see him differently as you don't think he is athletic and have stated such here....I've seen him make some incredible athletic plays over the last two seasons....It has never been about Kyle and I doubt it will be this year as for him it's about TEAM and winning....I believe Kyle is a leader through action not through words....he knows what he needs to do and is fully capable of doing it against top competition....As far as starting doubt it matters to Kyle...I expect his minutes to increase as he is a jack of all trades on the court....to be a great TEAM player you have to be a great TEAM player so before you ask, no, I don't believe he has to be the master of one as his complete game makes him an asset whenever he is on the court.....but then again ol buddy that's just my opinion. :)

Go!! Zags!!!

We agree. A plus is more better and if espies another BW he will grab him. KD is a valuable player, no doubt. I'm still trying to get the notion of DD coming back for a year, which was my fantasy after the above post on meeting the all time great in a Sauna. Think of it, DD and Blake with these three bigs. Oh my.

OZZY
05-21-2015, 02:58 PM
Blah, coming up short as a starter, not as a super sub. Why did Few get BW if he was sold on KD as a STARTING three?

Because he was available and wanted to play for the Zags.

bigblahla
05-21-2015, 04:17 PM
Jazz - If we're wishing then let's wish Blake some good knees....DD does a solid workout....first time I saw him he was running sideways then backwards on a treadmill....okay..who here wouldn't have to try that after seeing it....even at my age....that could have been a hip.....catastrophe....didn't fall but sure looked funny stumbling off the end of the treadmill.

Go!! Zags!!!

Worthington
05-21-2015, 04:31 PM
No comp w Dowers track, 62, sorry. SD showed plenty of brilliant moments pre senior year, so much that even as a soph it would have been a plus to have him start. Personnel wise that wasn't there. KD has had ample opportunity to lay claim to the SF the past several years and has come up short in Fews mind, forget about mine. Hence the recruitment of a bevy of SFs which one hopes is ongoing. So apples and oranges, IMO.

I think that you're forgetting that we went hard after Mike Moser and Josh Davis, Sam Dower's senior year.

Bogozags
05-21-2015, 04:39 PM
I believe there are many of you, that question KD's ability to step-up this coming season. KD will surprise us all...he has been groomed for four years for this season. He will have a great senior year and in order to do so, Coach Few has to give him the "green light" as he has always been the fourth, fifth or sixth option when the Zags were on offence. We don't know who will start at SF next season...there is lots of speculation that KW will be in that position but not sure he can defend at the SF; however, KD can defend at that position and was called upon to also defend at the PF too!

Let's see what happens and enjoy another wonderful season of Zags basketball!

Coach Crazy
05-21-2015, 05:05 PM
As I said in another post, this was a transformative year for this program. The offense is starting to expand as we see more access to acquiring better talent, and players are figuring out that they have to have a role and embrace, or they won't be a member of this team very long.

There was really no way to know how this year, from an X's and O's perspective, was going to go. Tommy was very upfront about the challenge it would be to manage as much talent as they had, this past season. It was new, and it turned out well. Before this year, I was actually very much *NOT* a KD supporter. As of right now, I have to give the kid his props. With a host of new guards, and the best front court in the country, he has a few things he really has to do well. As long as he can work the baseline and the wing (movement-wise), spot distribute (limiting the amount of time actually possessing the ball, but being in the space necessary to keep the offense moving, and make the right pass), and rebound...he should be good.

When it comes down to it, I am not sure that I see KD needing to be a 40%+ 3P shooter to be effective. Plus, I think 38-ish% is probably the most one could really expect at this point. Anything else is cake. And yes, defense is important...but I don't know that we need to be worried, in his case. His DRtg was pretty awesome last year. True, he wasn't guarding the other team's best player a lot of time, but he has the physical tools to be effective on that end of the court.

If Coach Few can find something better, will he try to bring that player to GU? Sure. But I don't think we are bad off with KD, in the event that is who we roll with.

DADoZAG
05-22-2015, 08:19 AM
I'm not sure more minutes and responsibility would be a problem for Kyle. While starting when GBJ was injured during Kyle's sophomore season, I'm not sure Kyle could have played much better. He shot 55% from the floor and 37% from 3. He averaged 4.9 rebounds and 4.1 assists. The Zags lost only one game during this stretch, a game in which Kyle was 3-4 from the field. He also tossed in 5 reb, 6 assists, 2 steals and 1 blk along with only 2TO. A fine nights work in my book.

Steel, do you ever feel like you post something but no one reads it?

My guess is that Knock Down will come in ripped and ready for stardom. He's much tougher than his RS freshman year when pine splinters seemed to degrade his mindset.

There are times in everyone's life when they realize it's all led to this place, at this time, with this opportunity.

Knock 'em Down, KD.

Go ZAGS!