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View Full Version : Confident Williams III and Narain will be Zag



BobZag
05-04-2015, 10:53 AM
Sooner than later.

ZagsObserver
05-04-2015, 10:57 AM
Any thoughts on whether Narain will be 2015 or 2016, and is the staff still looking to pick up a body at the 2 or 3 spot for 15?

thespywhozaggedme
05-04-2015, 11:00 AM
2015 and redshirt is my hunch.
Any thoughts on whether Narain will be 2015 or 2016, and is the staff still looking to pick up a body at the 2 or 3 spot for 15?

zagsfanforlife
05-04-2015, 11:03 AM
If what BZ says is true, and when he speaks, i Listen, then I'll be damned, this is an embarassment of riches.

Like, wow. Golden age of Zags hoops is upon us.

If so, would that max us out on scholarships, or still have one more to bring in a 2 who can contribute?

thespywhozaggedme
05-04-2015, 11:04 AM
We have 4, no? NN, NWG and JWIII gives us three.
If what BZ says is true, and when he speaks, i Listen, then I'll be damned, this is an embarassment of riches.

Like, wow. Golden age of Zags hoops is upon us.

If so, would that max us out on scholarships, or still have one more to bring in a 2 who can contribute?

ZagsObserver
05-04-2015, 11:11 AM
I'd be curious to see how playing time would work itself out

zagsfanforlife
05-04-2015, 11:15 AM
PG: Perkins/Melson
SG: NWG/Melson
SF: Alberts/ JWIII
PF: Domas?/ Norrain
C: Collins/ Edwards

Thats just what we know now. For 16-17. WOW.

Thats pretty insane.

zag67
05-04-2015, 11:16 AM
Why would we need just a 2? I think that it is a 2 or 3. The coaches have watched them for a year and depending on the results of this year for Perkins, Melson, and Alberts, I think that will say whether it is a 2 or 3. We will have a super set of guards that can play 1 - 3. Melson, Alberts, and do not forget Wade (coming the next year that can really shoot the 3). We have Perkins and Nigel that can work as a combo set of 1 - 2. We just need one or two more in the 2-3 area.

Zag_Dad
05-04-2015, 11:23 AM
Crystal Ball (Scout) has 100% of Narain predictions going Gonzaga's way. It amazes me what a #1 and #2 seed in past three years has done for Gonzaga. I really feels like Gonzaga is going to be good for a VERY long time.
With Collins and potentially Narain coming to Gonzaga along with 4 more years of Perkins, two with NWG, Wade coming here in two years along with Melson and Alberts .. that is an amazing core group that can only get better from here.
Can't wait for October!

TheOtherGreatOne
05-04-2015, 11:34 AM
Any news on the 6'10'' jr college kid?

raise the zag
05-04-2015, 11:37 AM
Somewhat hate to admit it, yet this is what *DEEP* NCAA Tournament "runs" does for your program, esp a borderline Top-10 type program.

Sustained success is one thing, yet no validation 'til Sweet 16 or better.

Just how it is with media and kids these days.

We've done tremendously well with recruiting given our NCAA Tournament appearances, yet advancing to the Elite 8 i.e. 2nd weekend is what takes a program to the next level.

We had a terrific 'foundation' for years and years, now we're hanging the 'chandelier' so to speak.

IF we have another run this season -- watch out -- could become even more ridiculous.

jchocolate99
05-04-2015, 12:02 PM
Sooner than later.

please don't tease me Bobzag... I really want Narrain teamed up with Collins. With us getting Nigel how does this affect the recruiting of Moussini? Would like to have him on board also

cjm720
05-04-2015, 12:07 PM
Somewhat hate to admit it, yet this is what *DEEP* NCAA Tournament "runs" does for your program, esp a borderline Top-10 type program.

Sustained success is one thing, yet no validation 'til Sweet 16 or better.

Just how it is with media and kids these days.

We've done tremendously well with recruiting given our NCAA Tournament appearances, yet advancing to the Elite 8 i.e. 2nd weekend is what takes a program to the next level.

We had a terrific 'foundation' for years and years, now we're hanging the 'chandelier' so to speak.

IF we have another run this season -- watch out -- could become even more ridiculous.

Perkins, Sabonis, Wiltjer, Wesley all came before this year's run...we've been trending up since 1995. It's incremental and this year's success has only helped to continue our trajectory. Good times!!

gonzagafan62
05-04-2015, 12:19 PM
PG: Perkins/Melson
SG: NWG/Melson
SF: Alberts/ JWIII
PF: Domas?/ Norrain
C: Collins/ Edwards

Thats just what we know now. For 16-17. WOW.

Thats pretty insane.

Nigel Williams Goss - 5 star
Perkins 4 star (I saw a UK headline that had Perkins listed as a 5 star)
Domas, Collins, JWIII all 4 stars
Alberts and Melson each a 3
Edwards a 2 star (But come on, after the improvement and slim body, we KNOW he's much better than that now)

Right you are, an embarrassment of riches. So fun to watch this team!!!!

zag buddy
05-04-2015, 12:21 PM
What are we, Kentucky of the west?

gonzagafan62
05-04-2015, 12:22 PM
Perkins, Sabonis, Wiltjer, Wesley all came before this year's run...we've been trending up since 1995. It's incremental and this year's success has only helped to continue our trajectory. Good times!!

The one guy that really REALLY helped this team was Turiaf. He was the train that I believe kick started the whole runs WELL before the Olynyk/Wiltjer superhero stuff.

Ronny Turiaf doesn't come back for his senior year.... And things can be so DRASTICALLY dfferent. Turiaf just coming here was a blessing, and his senior year keeping the streak alive was also monumental. I think this bit of GU history is VASTLY underrated.

jchocolate99
05-04-2015, 12:22 PM
Nigel Williams Goss - 5 star
Perkins 4 star (I saw a UK headline that had Perkins listed as a 5 star)
Domas, Collins, JWIII all 4 stars
Alberts and Melson each a 3
Edwards a 2 star (But come on, after the improvement and slim body, we KNOW he's much better than that now)

Right you are, an embarrassment of riches. So fun to watch this team!!!!

Perkins year at Huntington Prep got him knocked down a star so for all I care he's a 5 star in my eyes

gonzagafan62
05-04-2015, 12:23 PM
What are we, Kentucky of the west?

I'd put Arizona right now. They are still ahead of us (I am talking recruit wise, they are getting 5 stars at the rate we are getting our 4s and transfers now) but that's ok, we get to see them in the Kennel this season. Watch out.

kitzbuel
05-04-2015, 12:30 PM
I'd put Arizona right now. They are still ahead of us (I am talking recruit wise, they are getting 5 stars at the rate we are getting our 4s and transfers now) but that's ok, we get to see them in the Kennel this season. Watch out.

We still need a Final Four. We also need to take the next step and get these kids straight out of high school. Another year like last and I think that will happen. Right now, once these students get into a BCS 'glamor' program and get a dose of reality they see what value there is in GU. That is going to be noticed by the high school recruits and they will really start including Gonzaga in their true core of wish list schools.

DixieZag
05-04-2015, 12:30 PM
We're doomed.

It's a trap!

cggonzaga
05-04-2015, 12:56 PM
I'm really thinking Collins will be a 5 star when all is said and done.

ZagaZags
05-04-2015, 01:16 PM
I'm really thinking Collins will be a 5 star when all is said and done.

+1

ZagLawGrad
05-04-2015, 01:26 PM
Sooner than later.

Love it when you talk dirty, big fella. :cheers:

MickMick
05-04-2015, 01:40 PM
This bears repeating.

It took John Wooden 14 years to win his first championship.

In today's world of instant gratification and entitlement, there would have been calls for Wooden's head long before that.

What does that have to do with this thread?

Everything.

Thank God for Mark Few.

BobZag
05-04-2015, 02:41 PM
We're doomed.

It's a trap!

That's no moon. :)

Looking at the Juco kid and at an overseas big. W3 could commit this week, we'll see. Mussini is a shooter, his role would be totally different than any guard we'll have, outside Alberts who is also very good from outside. Some glowing reports re: EMac as well, very high on him and how much he'll help. Edwards has made big strides but must wait one more year before major minutes unless there's--gasp--an injury.

Kind of a giddy place, that Boone Avenue is nowadays.

DagsZags
05-04-2015, 03:39 PM
https://twitter.com/Nolan12Narain/status/595373136599654401


Nolan Narain
‏@Nolan12Narain

Proud to announce that I have committed to San Diego state university #GoAztecs ��⚫️


4:43 PM - 4 May 2015

ZagsObserver
05-04-2015, 03:40 PM
Uh oh...

zagsfanforlife
05-04-2015, 03:43 PM
Uh oh...

Add this one to the list of Aztecs over the Zags in recruiting battles.

And quickly my excitement drops. Think Nolan is going to be a really good one. Shucks!!!!!

Zags_Fanatic
05-04-2015, 03:44 PM
Well that sucks.

DukeSilver
05-04-2015, 03:44 PM
https://twitter.com/Nolan12Narain/status/595373136599654401


Nolan Narain
‏@Nolan12Narain

Proud to announce that I have committed to San Diego state university #GoAztecs ��⚫️


4:43 PM - 4 May 2015


Unbelievable.

seacatfan
05-04-2015, 03:45 PM
Damn. There was a thread about potential GU recruits that ended up at SDSU. Fairly much of a "we didn't want them anyway" tone to it. I'd say the Aztecs have been a thorn in Gonzaga's side on the recruiting trail. Especially this one.

gonzagafan62
05-04-2015, 03:47 PM
So how many years till Steve Fischer leaves? Retires? Whatever? Man

ZagMan in Philly
05-04-2015, 03:54 PM
Just can't compete with the weather in SD.

23dpg
05-04-2015, 03:55 PM
Bummer, I was hoping he would team up with Collins to form the front court of the future. But GU has been winning more than their fair share of recruits and transfers lately. Can't win em all.

Good luck to him moving forward but now my attention is back on the next potential Zag, whoever that might be.

HenneZag
05-04-2015, 03:59 PM
Congrats on his decision. With that said what is the appeal with SDSU...well other than the weather and location. GU is building something special and he could've been a huge part in the next step within our program, with a great opportunity to do some damage and play along side some talented guys. Moving on to the next one. SDSU has our number, we cant seem to snag guys from them.

BobZag
05-04-2015, 04:02 PM
That was unexpected.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
05-04-2015, 04:06 PM
That was unexpected.

Darn.

Still high on JW3?

MDABE80
05-04-2015, 04:06 PM
Dammit.

ProjectMKUltra5
05-04-2015, 04:09 PM
Lol nice timing on the thread

I was never high on Nolan. He tries far to hard to be a stretch 4 when that just won't be his game at the next level. He took 37 threes at the Adidas Uprising events and had games games where he went 2-7, 2-7, 1-7, 0-2, 0-3 from 3. It effects his rebounding which is more then underwhelming for somebody who has the length he does. He needs to move his game inside the arc and be a more physical presence if he wants to succeed at the next level imo.

DixieZag
05-04-2015, 04:14 PM
We're doomed.

It's a trap.

DixieZag
05-04-2015, 04:17 PM
So, I guess that means we'll just have to wait two years before we see Narain in the a Zag uniform?

Trying not to feel bitter.

Nah, not even trying. Sith Fisher strikes again - I guess that potent offense raking up 42 pts a game was just too irresistible.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-04-2015, 04:17 PM
That was unexpected.

Unexpected this is.

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/116/896/original/return-of-the-jedi-r2-says.jpg?1383754367

And unfortunate.

Coach Crazy
05-04-2015, 04:20 PM
So, I guess that means we'll just have to wait two years before we see Narain in the a Zag uniform?

Trying not to feel bitter.

Nah, not even trying. Sith Fisher strikes again - I guess that potent offense raking up 42 pts a game was just too irresistible.

Meh. The program got Zach. I wouldn't want it the other way around. You win some, you lose some, and only time will reinforce whether or not that remains true.

MDABE80
05-04-2015, 04:21 PM
Just confounding. I don't know how this could happen. Well, it's a verbal. .........not a signed contract. Things do change once in a while. I really thought we had him with all the input we've had.

jchocolate99
05-04-2015, 04:22 PM
Meh. The program got Zach. I wouldn't want it the other way around. You win some, you lose some, and only time will reinforce whether or not that remains true.

True narain would have been icing on the cake... We'll still have Edwards, Sabonis and Collins so we'll be fine

Corky
05-04-2015, 04:22 PM
We're doomed.

It's a trap!

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/04/766de9174a3757381cd1f4272ccdff16.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gonzagafan62
05-04-2015, 04:22 PM
We're doomed.

It's a trap.

Yup you jinxed it loo

Coach Crazy
05-04-2015, 04:26 PM
True narain would have been icing on the cake... We'll still have Edwards, Sabonis and Collins so we'll be fine

I think the idea of Sabonis being around for a junior year is very wishful thinking. Especially if he builds on last year. If he has a sophomore slump, then I could see him staying. Either way, I just think that we should be at a point as a fan base within this program that shrugs off losing a 4-star and looks forward to the next player up.

gonzagafan62
05-04-2015, 04:28 PM
I think the idea of Sabonis being around for a junior year is very wishful thinking. Especially if he builds on last year. If he has a sophomore slump, then I could see him staying. Either way, I just think that we should be at a point as a fan base within this program that shrugs off losing a 4-star and looks forward to the next player up.

We've already been doing tht. But the fact that Sabonis and his dad said he wanted to graduate doesn't say much?

CDC84
05-04-2015, 04:30 PM
With that said what is the appeal with SDSU...well other than the weather and location.

Especially after last season. SDSU was one of the worst offensive teams I have ever seen seeded 9 or higher in the NCAA tournament.

gonzagafan62
05-04-2015, 04:33 PM
Especially after last season. SDSU was one of the worst offensive teams I have ever seen seeded 9 or higher in the NCAA tournament.

Playing time, he can say he won a title (however tainted it might be you can use excuses all day long) he an day he been to the tournament regularly and built up anywhere he's been (again tainted) but once you're a slime all kids love you. Idk what it is

jchocolate99
05-04-2015, 04:34 PM
I think the idea of Sabonis being around for a junior year is very wishful thinking. Especially if he builds on last year. If he has a sophomore slump, then I could see him staying. Either way, I just think that we should be at a point as a fan base within this program that shrugs off losing a 4-star and looks forward to the next player up.

I would normally agree with you based on his talent but he's said multiple times he plans to graduate and was quoted in one article saying he plans to stay all four years... I don't buy the four year thing because he should graduate in three years so no it's not wishful thinking

Coach Crazy
05-04-2015, 04:35 PM
We've already been doing tht. But the fact that Sabonis and his dad said he wanted to graduate doesn't say much?

Honestly? I have a hard time putting too much stock in anything, these days. Things can change very quickly. Could Sabonis be different? Sure. And if he is, then I have no reason to care about Nolan Narain being a part of this program.

seacatfan
05-04-2015, 04:43 PM
Let's give SDSU a little credit. They've been the best college program in California for at least the last 5-6 years. That says something. Huge state with a bunch of schools. Usually win their conference or finish near the top. The MWC is a little higher profile than the WCC, whether it's more perception or reality doesn't really matter (perception IS reality, right?). They don't have as long of a consecutive Tourney appearance streak as GU but they've been consistent since Fisher has been there. They're doing some things right down there.

Coach Crazy
05-04-2015, 04:46 PM
Let's give SDSU a little credit. They've been the best college program in California for at least the last 5-6 years. That says something. Huge state with a bunch of schools. Usually win their conference or finish near the top. The MWC is a little higher profile than the WCC, whether it's more perception or reality doesn't really matter (perception IS reality, right?). They don't have as long of a consecutive Tourney appearance streak as GU but they've been consistent since Fisher has been there. They're doing some things right down there.

Agreed.

seacatfan
05-04-2015, 04:49 PM
Did a little googling. Only one Tourney appearance in Fisher's first 6 years there (2002). Made it again in 20006, then 3 straight NIT appearances. Been every year starting in 2010. Two Sweet 16's. First 3 appearances were one and done, only one 1st Round knockout since then. The school only had 3 appearances all time prior to Fisher, and none since 1985. He's taken them Dancing 8 times.

Kawhi Leonard is their only alum I can think of that's done much in the NBA.

CDC84
05-04-2015, 04:50 PM
There is some speculation that this decision may have been motivated by the possibility of him reclassifying as a 2015 prospect. If that ends up happening, there's no question that "immediate" playing time is more available at SDSU (assuming he elects not to redshirt). Even in 2016/17, GU would have Sabonis, Edwards and Collins ahead of Narain in the rotation. Not saying the staff didn't want Narain. He was a 2016 priority for sure. The point is that sometimes these recruiting battles come down to things like this.

cggonzaga
05-04-2015, 05:16 PM
We'll still have Edwards, Sabonis and Collins so we'll be fine

And Williams hopefully!

jazzdelmar
05-04-2015, 05:54 PM
The team that can't shoot straight hits another.

scott257
05-04-2015, 06:04 PM
Narian committed to SDSU.

jazzdelmar
05-04-2015, 06:08 PM
Weather a minor factor. More importantly, Fisher is pretty easygoing coach, there's an AAU vibe throughout the program, and the academics don't have to be terribly stringent. Kawhi is only NBAer to speak of.

zagfan24
05-04-2015, 06:24 PM
Perhaps a change to the title of this thread, por favor? Here I am sitting working on a not-so-fun work project that will be keeping me up late into the night, and I decide to engage in some avoidance/escape with a little GUBoards reading. I open this thread and my excitement builds as I read through the first page, only to get a punch in the stomach when I turn to page 2. Oof. Not that I'm worried about the Zags long term, but a little advanced warning might have helped my letdown ;)

DixieZag
05-04-2015, 10:04 PM
Yup you jinxed it loo

Au contraire,

I merely responded with the obvious to BZ's post.

If there was a jinx, it was. . . never mind.

GoZags
05-05-2015, 05:03 AM
I think the idea of Sabonis being around for a junior year is very wishful thinking. Especially if he builds on last year. If he has a sophomore slump, then I could see him staying. Either way, I just think that we should be at a point as a fan base within this program that shrugs off losing a 4-star and looks forward to the next player up.

Disagree.

He is living the dream that his 3 brothers didn't (or couldn't).

Things can change, but right now the plan is a degree (and the full college experience) in the US for Domas.

If it were about being a pro he'd have taken the $2m (over 4 years) from Malaga and not come to Gonzaga in the first place.

gonzagafan62
05-05-2015, 05:42 AM
Au contraire,

I merely responded with the obvious to BZ's post.

If there was a jinx, it was. . . never mind.

Don't go all OCC on me Dix. I was just jabbin ya

TravelinZag
05-05-2015, 06:20 AM
Just out of curiosity -- have there been instances in recent years in which SDSU and Gonzaga are "reportedly" chasing the same recruit and among the finalists, and GU prevailed? What is the total record over, say, the past four years? Does Fisher have similar records vis a vis other schools? Any indication he uses the Zags to "scout" then moves in? Whatever, you got to admit, from our standpoint he appears to be a great recruiter. Might be fun to schedule SDSU to see how the players GU "lost" play against the players GU "got."

LongIslandZagFan
05-05-2015, 06:24 AM
The team that can't shoot straight hits another.

SDSU under Fisher has never lived up to expectations... I really don't get the draw. I mean we aren't talking Romar level of underachieving, but they do underachieve.

HenneZag
05-05-2015, 06:35 AM
Now that NN is off the radar I wonder what the staff has up their sleeve. Obviously Williams is in the mix as well as that European JC transfer, just haven't heard of much else.

DixieZag
05-05-2015, 06:36 AM
Playing time, he can say he won a title (however tainted it might be you can use excuses all day long) he an day he been to the tournament regularly and built up anywhere he's been (again tainted) but once you're a slime all kids love you. Idk what it is

These kids weren't even born when he won a title. I don't think that is it.

They can barely win a MW title very often nowadays.

DixieZag
05-05-2015, 06:38 AM
Don't go all OCC on me Dix. I was just jabbin ya

Relax.

The "jinx" I was referring to had more to do with the Sith Lord that coaches there and the dark side he uses to recruit.

gonzagafan62
05-05-2015, 07:26 AM
Relax.

The "jinx" I was referring to had more to do with the Sith Lord that coaches there and the dark side he uses to recruit.

Hahaha. I guess the 4th was "with him" lol

basketballzag
05-05-2015, 07:35 AM
Best of luck to him and hope he has a very successful career at SDSU. Gonzaga isn't for everybody and he was looking for immediate playing time so SDSU makes sense. The writing was on the wall for the last few weeks as Gonzaga started looking elsewhere when they realized 2015 was on his horizon. If it wasn't for our bigs this year he would have been a Zag.

He made a good college decision IMHO going with Fisher because he could have picked a program with no real future so he did his homework. What is Jermaine Haley doing and has he grown any?

cjm720
05-05-2015, 08:01 AM
I would have lost a lot of money on this...makes no sense in many respects...Canadian, winning program, developer of big men...I wouldn't be surprised if we see him on campus in 2017.

HenneZag
05-05-2015, 08:02 AM
What is Jermaine Haley doing and has he grown any?

I really like Jermaine Haley's game. I haven't heard anything on him for quite some time now. He is definitely long, last I heard around 6'6-6'7. He can play multiple positions 1-3, and has great vision. At this point I don't believe he is on the radar but I would love to be wrong. Especially with the group we have now, as well as adding Goss. Of course if he did decide to come to GU, someone would most likely transfer out.

jazzdelmar
05-05-2015, 08:05 AM
Best of luck to him and hope he has a very successful career at SDSU. Gonzaga isn't for everybody and he was looking for immediate playing time so SDSU makes sense. The writing was on the wall for the last few weeks as Gonzaga started looking elsewhere when they realized 2015 was on his horizon. If it wasn't for our bigs this year he would have been a Zag.

He made a good college decision IMHO going with Fisher because he could have picked a program with no real future so he did his homework. What is Jermaine Haley doing and has he grown any?

Dont see much PT at SDSU either.....Plus Fisher has no qualms about bringing in kids on top.....I always get the feeling that Fish isthis close to being busted for doing something....he underachieves but gets big name kids.....unstructured AAU style, laid back coaches are factors....Narain wd never play this year and not much next year, assum DS stays......

CDC84
05-05-2015, 08:10 AM
Just out of curiosity -- have there been instances in recent years in which SDSU and Gonzaga are "reportedly" chasing the same recruit and among the finalists, and GU prevailed? What is the total record over, say, the past four years? Does Fisher have similar records vis a vis other schools? Any indication he uses the Zags to "scout" then moves in? Whatever, you got to admit, from our standpoint he appears to be a great recruiter. Might be fun to schedule SDSU to see how the players GU "lost" play against the players GU "got."

GU and SDSU generally don't chase the same players. As we have documented, the Zags and many other schools stopped recruiting Malik Pope after his second injury in HS, and the Zags also dropped Skylar Spencer soon after Olynyk decided to redshirt.

Before Narain, the only true freshman that GU may have lost to Fisher in recent times was Trey Kell, but his recruitment ended before it really started because he is San Diego kid, and those kids either stay home or go to some place like Zona or Kansas.

Josh Davis was a graduate transfer. I don't think coaches are nearly as influential in the recruiting process with graduate transfers as they are with high schoolers. For one thing, the recruitment takes place over a shorter period, and its hard to establish a relationship. Secondly, the reasons why a graduate transfer chooses a school and the reasons why a high schooler chooses a school are different in some ways. The graduate transfer needs to choose a school that has a graduate program that he's interested in. The graduate program needs to be different than any programs his current school offers. In essence, I don't think Gonzaga really got beat, recruiting wise, when Davis chose SDSU. Would they have liked to have had him? Of course.

zagsfanforlife
05-05-2015, 08:25 AM
GU and SDSU generally don't chase the same players. As we have documented, the Zags and many other schools stopped recruiting Malik Pope after his second injury in HS, and the Zags also dropped Skylar Spencer soon after Olynyk decided to redshirt.

Before Narain, the only true freshman that GU may have lost to Fisher in recent times was Trey Kell, but his recruitment ended before it really started because he is San Diego kid, and those kids either stay home or go to some place like Zona or Kansas.

Josh Davis was a graduate transfer. I don't think coaches are nearly as influential in the recruiting process with graduate transfers as they are with high schoolers. For one thing, the recruitment takes place over a shorter period, and its hard to establish a relationship. Secondly, the reasons why a graduate transfer chooses a school and the reasons why a high schooler chooses a school are different in some ways. The graduate transfer needs to choose a school that has a graduate program that he's interested in. The graduate program needs to be different than any programs his current school offers. In essence, I don't think Gonzaga really got beat, recruiting wise, when Davis chose SDSU. Would they have liked to have had him? Of course.

Just my opinion, but sounds like a lot of excuses. SDSU has beat GU straight up in recruiting battles time and time again. Do you really think the majority of graduate transfers base their decision on who has the best graduate program that suits their interest? I would argue that their decision has much more to do with which basketball program they prefer. Especially when youre a big time recruit such as Davis. The narrative on Pope has sure changed a lot since he signed. At first there was little talk about GU backing off. In fact, the recruiting sites had him pegged for GU. Now he signs with SDSU, and apparently the staff backed off from him because of injury concerns. Hmm.

In my count SDSU 4, GU 0.

Maybe there are kids I am missing who chose GU over SDSU but none come to mind.

CDC84
05-05-2015, 08:41 AM
Just my opinion, but sounds like a lot of excuses. SDSU has beat GU straight up in recruiting battles time and time again. Do you really think the majority of graduate transfers base their decision on who has the best graduate program that suits their interest? I would argue that their decision has much more to do with which basketball program they prefer. Especially when youre a big time recruit such as Davis. The narrative on Pope has sure changed a lot since he signed. At first there was little talk about GU backing off. In fact, the recruiting sites had him pegged for GU. Now he signs with SDSU, and apparently the staff backed off from him because of injury concerns. Hmm.

In my count SDSU 4, GU 0.

Maybe there are kids I am missing who chose GU over SDSU but none come to mind.

I know with 100% certainty that Kansas, Gonzaga and several other big name schools dropped Pope soon after he went down with that second injury in HS. If you choose to believe otherwise, so be it. Fisher took a chance on him that others weren't willing to. It's not a narrative, it's a fact. I have never wavered on this. Fortunately for the kid (and SDSU), things have worked out.

And Spencer was flat out dropped when Olynyk decided to redshirt. It happened months prior to his commitment to SDSU. He just disappeared off the map. We talked about it quite a bit on this board. The Zags didn't have any use for a big man in that class once Olynyk protracted his eligibility. Of course they didn't realize 8 months later that Kelly would turn into a lottery pick and leave a year early, but by then Spencer had chosen his school.

I still feel that recruiting graduate transfers is drastically different than recruiting high schoolers. You basically have 3 to 4 months at best to establish a relationship. And even if basketball was first on Davis' mind, he still had to find a place that offered a graduate program that was different than anything Tulane had to offer. You are mistaken if you think that GU "missed" on Davis in the same way they "missed" on Narain, who they recruited over a long period of time and who figures to be a 3-4 year player.

CDC84
05-05-2015, 08:57 AM
Tweet exchange from 2013:


Malik Pope‏@IceBiggie_GBWE7 Sep
“@groundupswish: @IceBiggie_GBWE you really goin on a visit to Gonzaga?” Yeah .

Question: Do you still plan on visiting Gonzaga next week even though you just had your surgery?

Pope: Nah, it's if Gonzaga still wants me to visit .!

Question: I hear The Gonzaga coaching staff is starting to back off since the injury? Is that true? Hope not.

Pope: Haha idek . If so, i have plenty other blessings. So it's nothing .

Question: Are you still visiting Gonzaga this weekend?

Pope: Not this weekend.

He was supposed to visit Gonzaga on 9/28/2013. BasketballZag, myself and several other people reported at the time that it was known within recruiting circles that several programs had backed off Pope after he busted his leg again. Everything that was rumored turned out to be proven true after further inquiries.

Mr Vulture
05-05-2015, 09:26 AM
That was not the tone of the thread...the fact is that Gonzaga backed away from Pope and Kell was from San Diego. It was more saying that we really haven't been in a true battle for a HS kid with them until this one. I really am disappointed though, I think Nolan would have had a much better development path at Gonzaga but its his decision. I wish him the best of luck at SDSU.


Damn. There was a thread about potential GU recruits that ended up at SDSU. Fairly much of a "we didn't want them anyway" tone to it. I'd say the Aztecs have been a thorn in Gonzaga's side on the recruiting trail. Especially this one.

cjm720
05-05-2015, 09:34 AM
So glad we have Zach Collins!

ZagsObserver
05-05-2015, 09:40 AM
I don't want to minimize the loss, but if GU is successful in its recruitment of JWill3, the loss may not be really significant. Collins paired with JWill3 for 2 years vs Collins paired with Narain for 3 is the equation I'm working from. I never believed that there would be sufficient minutes for both.

23dpg
05-05-2015, 09:45 AM
Just to refresh the memory of some of the posters on here. Zach Collins was also being recruited by San Diego State and Gonzaga won that battle. Collins took a recruiting trip there as well as Utah and others.
Here is a recap from when he committed.

Zach Collins, a 6-foot-11˝, 230-pound center at Bishop Gorman High in Las Vegas, has orally committed to Gonzaga, becoming the first member of the Zags’ 2016 men’s basketball recruiting class.

The 17-year-old Collins had more than 30 scholarship offers. He took official visits to Gonzaga, Utah, Cal, New Mexico and San Diego State. His final three were Gonzaga, Utah and San Diego State.

Mr Vulture
05-05-2015, 09:46 AM
You can do whatever count you want to do but when it comes to HS kids it is at most 2-1 San Diego State, and that is only if you count Kell who is from San Diego. How soon we forget that Collins had SD State in his final three. I think CDC84 has explained it out very well, so I'm not going to rehash it, but the facts are as presented whether you agree or not.


Just my opinion, but sounds like a lot of excuses. SDSU has beat GU straight up in recruiting battles time and time again. Do you really think the majority of graduate transfers base their decision on who has the best graduate program that suits their interest? I would argue that their decision has much more to do with which basketball program they prefer. Especially when youre a big time recruit such as Davis. The narrative on Pope has sure changed a lot since he signed. At first there was little talk about GU backing off. In fact, the recruiting sites had him pegged for GU. Now he signs with SDSU, and apparently the staff backed off from him because of injury concerns. Hmm.

In my count SDSU 4, GU 0.

Maybe there are kids I am missing who chose GU over SDSU but none come to mind.

CDC84
05-05-2015, 09:55 AM
I completely forgot about SDSU being in Collins' top 3. It's a good thing he verbaled when he did, because blue bloods would be going after him this summer. They may still go after him despite his verbal.

zagsfanforlife
05-05-2015, 11:09 AM
You can do whatever count you want to do but when it comes to HS kids it is at most 2-1 San Diego State, and that is only if you count Kell who is from San Diego. How soon we forget that Collins had SD State in his final three. I think CDC84 has explained it out very well, so I'm not going to rehash it, but the facts are as presented whether you agree or not.

How is it 2-1?? lol. Your counting skills need work.

Narrain, Kell, Davis.... thats 3.

If you dont add Pope, which apparently a number of sources who indicated he was set to visit after he signed, were wrong, thats still 3. TRES. THREE.

Collins can be your one.

3-1 SDSU.

Mr Vulture
05-05-2015, 11:22 AM
Before you insult me perhaps you should correctly read what I posted. I said High School kids...Davis was not a HS kid. Therefore, take a reading comprehension class and get back to me. By the way, you can beat your Pope drum all you want...it was Gonzaga that stepped away from him.


How is it 2-1?? lol. Your counting skills need work.

Narrain, Kell, Davis.... thats 3.

If you dont add Pope, which apparently a number of sources who indicated he was set to visit after he signed, were wrong, thats still 3. TRES. THREE.

Collins can be your one.

3-1 SDSU.

gonzagafan62
05-05-2015, 11:25 AM
Before you insult me perhaps you should correctly read what I posted. I said High School kids...Davis was not a HS kid. Therefore, take a reading comprehension class and get back to me when you understand it's 2-1, if you are counting Kell that is.

Lets get back on track here. How many years till Steve Fischer retires?

zagsfanforlife
05-05-2015, 11:29 AM
Before you insult me perhaps you should correctly read what I posted. I said High School kids...Davis was not a HS kid. Therefore, take a reading comprehension class and get back to me. By the way, you can beat your Pope drum all you want...it was Gonzaga that stepped away from him.

Ill try to incorporate that into my curriculum during my second masters before 27. Thanks for the life advice.

krozman
05-05-2015, 11:33 AM
Someone invited me to a SDSU message board, but I said "NO WAY, GUBOARDS 4Life!" Does that count towards this mostly irrelevant derail?

thespywhozaggedme
05-05-2015, 11:34 AM
Dude, seriously calm down and be humble.
Ill try to incorporate that into my curriculum during my second masters before 27. Thanks for the life advice.

seacatfan
05-05-2015, 11:40 AM
Lets get back on track here. How many years till Steve Fischer retires?

I have no idea, but I've seen references to one of their assistant coaches (Dutcher?) being named coach in waiting, so they might have a fairly smooth transition whenever Fisher does decide to end his career.

Kiddwell
05-05-2015, 11:43 AM
Are we still "confident" about Williams III? Any updates on his recruitment? :bishop_smiley:



:]

seacatfan
05-05-2015, 11:47 AM
The continued complete misunderstanding (denial?) of how the whole 5th year Sr. grad student transfer thing functions cracks me up. It's really pretty simple. The student athlete picks a school they want to transfer to. Then they figure out a grad program offered at that school that isn't offered at their current school. Play ball for another year, then drop out of the grad program. I've seen stats, a very small percentage of these student athletes get their grad degree. That's how it works in reality. Whatever the NCAA envisioned with this policy, it hasn't ended up being about kids furthering their academic career. It's free agency for college sports.

Chicken Ball
05-05-2015, 12:12 PM
The continued complete misunderstanding (denial?) of how the whole 5th year Sr. grad student transfer thing functions cracks me up. It's really pretty simple. The student athlete picks a school they want to transfer to. Then they figure out a grad program offered at that school that isn't offered at their current school. Play ball for another year, then drop out of the grad program. I've seen stats, a very small percentage of these student athletes get their grad degree. That's how it works in reality. Whatever the NCAA envisioned with this policy, it hasn't ended up being about kids furthering their academic career. It's free agency for college sports.

Is that true across the board, or only for the $$$ sports like Football, basketball, and baseball?

BULLDOG#1
05-05-2015, 12:17 PM
Not sure if it's been posted elsewhere... but don't Narrain and Collins play the same position? Isn't Collins generally considered the better prospect? If both GU and SDSU recruited them both, I'd say the zags won that battle...

Bouldin4Prez
05-05-2015, 12:18 PM
They would have worked well together for a 4/5 combo.

CDC84
05-05-2015, 12:19 PM
Moving on, TSSF did a nice feature on what's up with recruiting post-Narain decision:

http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2015/5/5/8553249/gonzaga-recruiting-roundup-big-decisions-have-been-made

CDC84
05-05-2015, 12:22 PM
More on the graduate transfer rule:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-04-27/college-basketball-transfer-rules-division-i-rumors-ncaa


They contend mid-major programs are vulnerable to losing experienced players to more glamorous big-time programs after making significant long-term investments in those athletes. In English soccer, the term is “tapping up” – letting the player know he’d be welcome on a more prestigious team.

Members of the NABC want a rule change that negatively impacts student-athletes because they cannot trust members of the NABC to behave themselves.

Isn’t that just the sorriest thing you’ve ever heard?

Well, it might be, until you hear this: It almost never happens. Indeed, members of the NABC want a rule change that negatively impacts student athletes because they cannot trust members of the NABC to behave themselves — even though they mostly do.

According to the transfer list compiled by ESPN’s Jeff Goodman at the conclusion of the 2013-14 season, 640 players left Division I programs last spring. Only 52 were graduate transfers. Of those, only eight clearly stepped up from the mid-majors to the high-major levels. If we want to really be easy graders, we also could include three others from major programs that were outside the Power 5 who moved into the Big Ten and Big 12. If we do, that means there were 11 instances of players social-climbing as grad transfers (and no instances in which coaches of the programs receiving those transfers were publicly accused of encouraging them).

So such players represent — at best — 21 percent of graduate transfers, and 1.7 percent of transfers overall.

And yet NABC president Jim Haney told the Plain Dealer, “The data shows most of those fifth-year players are moving up.”

Well, if one considers Jake Zuilhof’s switch from Grand Canyon to Central Arkansas “moving up,” perhaps that is true.

In the real world, it’s crap.

If you want to know how disingenuous this whole campaign is, notice you’ll hear coaches citing how only 30 percent of athletes who take advantage of the grad transfer exception complete their master’s degrees. This does not account for those athletes who might complete those degrees at a later date – you know, like all those athletes who finish Bachelor’s Degrees after leaving school to play basketball professionally in the NBA or overseas. Coaches are attacking the grad transfer rule with the same statistical interpretation they use to defend their programs’ graduation rates.

I had a long conversation with a mid-major coach last week who is extremely concerned about this issue – so concerned he is considering holding back one potential graduate so he’d be a few credits short of a degree at the conclusion of his third season.

He contended there is nothing wrong with requiring an athlete to sit out a year after graduating so that two years of graduate level work could be completed. But there’s nothing right about it, either. The coach could not mount a significant counterargument to my position that making the option available to a graduate is a reward for completing degree work and the only reason coaches want to change the rule is they believe other coaches are abusing it.

Which course would you rather a big-time college basketball player to be taking while he competes as a senior: An M.A. in Education or PEM 1121: Stretch and Relaxation?

That’s a real course at a real school.

Of course, it would be useful for an athlete.

seacatfan
05-05-2015, 12:38 PM
Interesting link CDC, thanks for posting that.

thespywhozaggedme
05-05-2015, 12:55 PM
So, is JWIII an sf or pf? Looking at his game longs it looks like he's more of a really tall wing that can rebound. His stats agains Miss State were sick: 27 points, 7 boards, 9-15 from the floor, 3-5 from 3. If Don'tmiss returns for his junior year, we could start him, Collins and JWIII; plus Perkins and Goss!!!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/66260/johnathan-williams-iii

cjm720
05-05-2015, 01:19 PM
So, is JWIII an sf or pf? Looking at his game longs it looks like he's more of a really tall wing that can rebound. His stats agains Miss State were sick: 27 points, 7 boards, 9-15 from the floor, 3-5 from 3. If Don'tmiss returns for his junior year, we could start him, Collins and JWIII; plus Perkins and Goss!!!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/66260/johnathan-williams-iii

unsure about the position, but I'd guess he's more of a PF, at least at Mizzou. a quick glance at his stats show that they take a pretty big dip on the road...still be a huge addition to our club

Mr Vulture
05-05-2015, 01:28 PM
You are more than welcome. Cheers! :horse:


Ill try to incorporate that into my curriculum during my second masters before 27. Thanks for the life advice.

Coach Crazy
05-05-2015, 03:35 PM
unsure about the position, but I'd guess he's more of a PF, at least at Mizzou. a quick glance at his stats show that they take a pretty big dip on the road...still be a huge addition to our club


So, is JWIII an sf or pf? Looking at his game longs it looks like he's more of a really tall wing that can rebound. His stats agains Miss State were sick: 27 points, 7 boards, 9-15 from the floor, 3-5 from 3. If Don'tmiss returns for his junior year, we could start him, Collins and JWIII; plus Perkins and Goss!!!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/66260/johnathan-williams-iii

As advanced statistics become more prevalent in professional basketball, I think you'll start to see some interesting, specialized variations of players. If he were to decide to play at Gonzaga, he'll be with at least one forward that can shoot (Collins), a stable of guards that can shoot from mid-range and out, and at least one earth mover (Edwards).

So, I could see him having some post potential (depending on the personnel playing with him), but also being that baseline/wing slash threat that can take some pressure off the shooters and post players, and at the same time, play off of the spacing both of those aspects create.

Though they are not really he same type of player, here is how their profiles stack up:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/johnathan-williams-2.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/byron-wesley-1.html

It's an interesting comparison. First and foremost, we are talking about a player that would be playing as a RS junior, where as Wesley was a senior. Wesley was a better a shooter, and could actually fill the role of point-forward, but Williams gives you length and agility on defense that might make for some nice closeouts and the ability to play off-ball post-defense with prowess.

Very worth noting that even Byron's efficiency went up as a result of playing in the Gonzaga system, and after looking at the contrast in Williams' advanced statistics (between freshman and sophomore year), I am convinced that he is a kid that just needs a specific role. During his first season he had a USG% at 13.9 with a .101 WS/40, an ORtg of 109.5, and a BPM of 5.6.

When his USG% nearly doubled, the following season, his WS/40 and BPM all took a huge hit. What that tells me is that he expanded his role into areas of contribution to which he didn't possess the necessary skill set. He's not a starter, for sure...but as a third 3/4 forward, he's got some potential. If you can get Williams to a 7 BPM by his senior season, though not necessarily the same means of it...you're getting "Byron Wesley"-quality contribution. Granted, he'd have to get the system, or want to play within it...or it'd be pointless to have him on the roster.

TheOtherGreatOne
05-05-2015, 04:57 PM
Be careful what you wish for, you might get him. I saw him several times,and was not impressed. I also did not like his attitude on the court,crying about everything that didn't go his way. he also has an ugly jump shot, and I really mean ugly.

gonzagafan62
05-05-2015, 05:16 PM
Be careful what you wish for, you might get him. I saw him several times,and was not impressed. I also did not like his attitude on the court,crying about everything that didn't go his way. he also has an ugly jump shot, and I really mean ugly.

Bring him on. I saw him too. Basically what you said, but I actually like his game. I think he could really help is out. But I am weird so take my opinion with a grain of salt lol

Mantua
05-05-2015, 05:32 PM
Bring him on. I saw him too. Basically what you said, but I actually like his game. I think he could really help is out. But I am weird so take my opinion with a grain of salt lol

I'm more likely to take an opinion seriously if the author leaves room for doubt! Thank you for your opinion.

gonzagafan62
05-05-2015, 06:09 PM
I'm more likely to take an opinion seriously if the author leaves room for doubt! Thank you for your opinion.

:lmao: nice way with words I see.

Coach Crazy
05-05-2015, 06:16 PM
Be careful what you wish for, you might get him. I saw him several times,and was not impressed. I also did not like his attitude on the court,crying about everything that didn't go his way. he also has an ugly jump shot, and I really mean ugly.

While I value in-person evaluations, ball don't like and neither do certain statistics. Especially when talking about a situation like this. Once BR has added Box Plus/Minus (BPM) to the statistical leaders section, it will be a lot easier to put it into perspective just how effective he was his freshman year. This program wouldn't be bringing him on to shoot a ton of jumpers. In fact, from a scoring depth stand point, I can't ever see him being more than the 4th or 5th shooting option on the floor, regardless the lineup.

One other thing that hasn't either been brought up, or brought up enough...is the fact that you get a 3/4 for two years, and it allows you to recruit big, without having to worry about over-recruiting. The reality is, you need someone to be that 3rd or 4th forward, and when you get to that point in the depth chart, he needs to fill very specific roles. And I don't ever remember a 3rd or 4th Forward having to have a great jumper.

thespywhozaggedme
05-05-2015, 07:25 PM
So Nunez, part deux, in other words? I can live with that I guess.
While I value in-person evaluations, ball don't like and neither do certain statistics. Especially when talking about a situation like this. Once BR has added Box Plus/Minus (BPM) to the statistical leaders section, it will be a lot easier to put it into perspective just how effective he was his freshman year. This program wouldn't be bringing him on to shoot a ton of jumpers. In fact, from a scoring depth stand point, I can't ever see him being more than the 4th or 5th shooting option on the floor, regardless the lineup.

One other thing that hasn't either been brought up, or brought up enough...is the fact that you get a 3/4 for two years, and it allows you to recruit big, without having to worry about over-recruiting. The reality is, you need someone to be that 3rd or 4th forward, and when you get to that point in the depth chart, he needs to fill very specific roles. And I don't ever remember a 3rd or 4th Forward having to have a great jumper.

seacatfan
05-05-2015, 07:44 PM
Somehow I seriously doubt this kid is intending to be the 3rd or 4th guy in a front court rotation as he looks at schools to transfer to. If all he'd be at GU is Nunez part 2, he would be really wise to go elsewhere. It's not like it was set in stone the way it would work out when Nunez decided, but no kid is gonna knowingly sign up for that. Maybe 5-8 minutes in a game depending on score and situation...or maybe a DNP. Next prospect...

gonzagafan62
05-05-2015, 07:53 PM
Somehow I seriously doubt this kid is intending to be the 3rd or 4th guy in a front court rotation as he looks at schools to transfer to. If all he'd be at GU is Nunez part 2, he would be really wise to go elsewhere. It's not like it was set in stone the way it would work out when Nunez decided, but no kid is gonna knowingly sign up for that. Maybe 5-8 minutes in a game depending on score and situation...or maybe a DNP. Next prospect...

I'll take talent. We need depth on the years coming. So far we have zero depth Sabonis Edwards and Collins are nice.... But I'll take one more and sure it up. 3 guys is good like it was last year with the mount, wiltjer and Sabonis but it's always one injury away from being stuck in a situation where you have two big guys and a stretch 4 with Nunez. I'll take the fourth guy. Who knows the kid may really benefit from the redshirt and be better than a freshman in Collins. You never know

Coach Crazy
05-05-2015, 08:08 PM
So Nunez, part deux, in other words? I can live with that I guess.

Few hang-ups, at least for me. Angel never really got the minutes to establish himself. With J3 we have seen him not only get significant minutes, but two different stages of USG%. Also, I think J3 is a bit more athletic and explosive than Nunez.

Now, here is where I should have spent more time on my post. My fault. In terms of being a 4, *if* Sabonis is going to stay all 4, or graduate in 3 even, then J3 is the 3rd PF on this team. At least for that first year, possibly both. But being a 3/4 would give him the chance to play in behind Alberts/who ever solidifies that position, and be your 2nd SF. Also, who knows. We could end up with players like Brendan Bailey and Brodzianksy, and then you don't almost need J3. I'm not always expect the depth chart to be so linear, either. It seems as though the staff has not only acknowledged that there would be a new challenge of managing as much talent as they had this year, but were successfully flexible from an X's and O's/time distribution perspective.

I'll just leave my thoughts about Johnathan Williams III as a potential Zag at this: Really like his length, athleticism and explosiveness. He can post up, has a decent post move or two, can set a high-ball screen and function in the pick-and-roll. Also, a guy that can play great defense on a pick-and-roll. Not the guy you want shooting the ball a whole lot, but as I stated before, he can attack from the wing and the baseline, and I really like how that fits into our shooters and post-game. Also, see my earlier post about his defense. IF he can develop a shot, then it is really a no-brainer. He takes his RS, and he's your starter in 2016 at the 3. If he can't, and he doesn't want to fit into a role on this team...then pass on him, work with what you've got, and continue to recruit.

TheOtherGreatOne
05-06-2015, 04:32 AM
Nunez is way more talented than Williams and he couldn't play here. Williams is not going to come here and play Nunez type minutes. He is going somewhere he can get starter minutes. If he comes here and doesn't play much it will create a problem which the team doesn't need. In my opinion would be better off signing the 6'10'' jr college kid.but what do I know i'm not getting paid to make those decisions. I do know enough to know that Nunez is is a better talent than Williams.

Coach Crazy
05-06-2015, 06:18 AM
Nunez is way more talented than Williams and he couldn't play here. Williams is not going to come here and play Nunez type minutes. He is going somewhere he can get starter minutes. If he comes here and doesn't play much it will create a problem which the team doesn't need. In my opinion would be better off signing the 6'10'' jr college kid.but what do I know i'm not getting paid to make those decisions. I do know enough to know that Nunez is is a better talent than Williams.

Do you have anything more than "eye test"? Or even an explanation of your eye test to reinforce this point? Angel Nunez and J3 aren't actually even comparable, as one (due to concussion) never played even half the minutes of the others' first season...in his three years, thus far. And part of production is understanding the system. Angel clearly (and quite probably because of said concussions) couldn't get it, or else we'd probably still see him here. Plus, Angel was never a viable option at the 4. They put him there because, again, he couldn't pick things up at the 3. Better shooter? Yes. But I think that is about as much as can be said.


Williams is not going to come here and play Nunez type minutes. He is going somewhere he can get starter minutes.

Angel Nunez played a total of 176 minutes over 38 games. Had he been able to play in the system more, there would have been more minutes. If a player like J3 comes here and *gets the system*, then I could see him getting somewhere in the neighborhood of Dranginis minutes at around 650. This is assuming he were the 3rd PF and 2nd SF.

Also, we have to be realistic about Bryan Alberts. We don't know what we have there. If his play this season isn't great, then you are scrambling for a 3, anyway, in the event a kid like Brendan Bailey doesn't work out.

Johnathan Williams sounds like he is going to make an informed decision, and I wouldn't be surprised if his comments about the rest of the process for him is a result of the staff at Gonzaga telling him similar things to what I've said. Unless he goes to a very small school, or a big one that is absolutely re-tooling, he won't get starter minutes anywhere, until he has proven himself.

DukeSilver
05-06-2015, 06:38 AM
Although there seems to be some kind of consensus emerging that JW3 is somehow not talented enough for the Zags, it's worth noting that some pretty well-respected names disagree with you entirely ... Not to mention the fact that he was a TOP 50 recruit out of high school.

http://espn.go.com/blog/jeff-goodman/insider/post/_/id/4899/top-10-transfers-and-complete-transfer-list

CDC84
05-06-2015, 07:34 AM
The kid was heavily sought after in HS (#42 rivals). He was also very impressive in FIBA competition as a high schooler. He was offered by coaches like Billy Donovan and Tom Izzo (MSU really wanted him - he visited Sparty). The guy has been playing under some mediocre coaching at Missouri. And last year's Mizzou team was terrible. With a redshirt year to battle against GU's bigs in practice and work with Travis, I think he could turn out to be a really good player. I'm willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt. They showed zero hesitancy in pursuing him once he came on the market.

gonzagafan62
05-06-2015, 07:53 AM
The kid was heavily sought after in HS (#42 rivals). He was also very impressive in FIBA competition as a high schooler. He was offered by coaches like Billy Donovan and Tom Izzo (MSU really wanted him - he visited Sparty). The guy has been playing under some mediocre coaching at Missouri. And last year's Mizzou team was terrible. With a redshirt year to battle against GU's bigs in practice and work with Travis, I think he could turn out to be a really good player. I'm willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt. They showed zero hesitancy in pursuing him once he came on the market.

Can I just start out by saying Frank Haith is a great recruiter (I believe he recruited W3), and DOES NOT DEVELOP TALENT PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark Few is a MASTER at (what?) oh, yeah DEVELOPING TALENT

Secondly, Missouri went through another coaching change this past year, and Missouri was awful. W3 knows that.

I don't care rick from ron who is coming on our team, as long as they have good talent. W3 has the talent. And I believe he is better than Nunez for the system that we run. Look at the footage. Its not comparable.

zagfan24
05-06-2015, 07:58 AM
I also think it's easy to get way too caught up in whether a player fits in the traditional role of a position. It doesn't matter much, IMO, whether a player is a true 3 or 4 or whatever. Good coaches find ways to make players fit together on the floor, and good players are often asked to defend different positions, take on different offensive roles, and accentuate different parts of their game depending on who they are on the floor with as well as who the opponent is. I ultimately believe that adding tranfers with length and athleticism will always benefit the Zags, because it has historically been a gap in HS recruiting.

Coach Crazy
05-06-2015, 11:12 AM
I also think it's easy to get way too caught up in whether a player fits in the traditional role of a position. It doesn't matter much, IMO, whether a player is a true 3 or 4 or whatever. Good coaches find ways to make players fit together on the floor, and good players are often asked to defend different positions, take on different offensive roles, and accentuate different parts of their game depending on who they are on the floor with as well as who the opponent is. I ultimately believe that adding tranfers with length and athleticism will always benefit the Zags, because it has historically been a gap in HS recruiting.


Agree with this post and the last point is one that hasn't really been brought up yet. Always good to show that certain types of players are capable of being successful here, and it really does help kids from the areas that these recruits come from start to see some brand association, that the program might not otherwise have had.

MDABE80
05-06-2015, 01:22 PM
I wonder how much a terrible program can defeat a kid's chances for developemnt. Williams has the stones/talent to be a very good player. but he hasn't so far. Maybe this is why he's leaving Missou.
In that same vein, could it be that if he enrolls is a very serious program like ours the he might blossom into something that was predicted out of HS but never fulfilled in a bad program. Just a thought.

cggonzaga
05-06-2015, 01:59 PM
Williams has the stones/talent to be a very good player. but he hasn't so far.

Who says he hasn't been a good player? This thread is killing me. I'm not sure what people expect around here anymore. The guy led his SEC team (albeit a bad one) in scoring and rebounding. He shot 34% from the 3pt line. I'd imagine he was the main defensive focus of every team they played and he still put up good numbers. The kid wants to win which is why he's leaving. I absolutely see a spot for him in our program. These kinds of kids don't come along all that often. Talk about an athletic lineup in 2 years:

Perkins
Melson
Williams-Goss
Williams III
Sabonis

Alberts
Edwards
Collins
and who knows who else. Cunliffe? Bailey?

gonzagafan62
05-06-2015, 02:43 PM
Who says he hasn't been a good player? This thread is killing me. I'm not sure what people expect around here anymore. The guy led his SEC team (albeit a bad one) in scoring and rebounding. He shot 34% from the 3pt line. I'd imagine he was the main defensive focus of every team they played and he still put up good numbers. The kid wants to win which is why he's leaving. I absolutely see a spot for him in our program. These kinds of kids don't come along all that often. Talk about an athletic lineup in 2 years:

Perkins
Melson
Williams-Goss
Williams III
Sabonis

Alberts
Edwards
Collins
and who knows who else. Cunliffe? Bailey?

Exactly. Like I said.... Take talent when you can.

cjm720
05-06-2015, 02:45 PM
I wonder how much a terrible program can defeat a kid's chances for developemnt. Williams has the stones/talent to be a very good player. but he hasn't so far. Maybe this is why he's leaving Missou.
In that same vein, could it be that if he enrolls is a very serious program like ours the he might blossom into something that was predicted out of HS but never fulfilled in a bad program. Just a thought.

Leading the team in scoring and rebounds...doubt that he's leaving because he's not a good player!

Coach Crazy
05-06-2015, 04:52 PM
Leading the team in scoring and rebounds...doubt that he's leaving because he's not a good player!

Meh. This is actually a line of reasoning that I think you'll find start to have less popularity as time goes on. I know Coach Cal is the devil incarnate around here, but he makes a good point about stats: (paraphrasing) "Even bad teams have statistical leaders".

What I find interesting is that the people that are the heaviest critics of J3 might want to look at what Byron Wesley was doing with USC. While Byron was a more refined player, it's also why the 'eye test', in a vacuum, when other statistics are present is dangerous. As a result of stepping away from being the leading scorer/team leader and stepping into a role on this team, he achieved BPM, WS, and WS/40 that he might not have, otherwise.

It's why I said what I did earlier. A kid like J3 doesn't have to be a shooter to be incredibly effective on this team. That doesn't mean he can't be a potent scorer, either. I just don't believe those two terms are mutually exclusive. And while you ideally want to have players be as complete as possible, having a kid who can't really shoot at a prime level can make it easier to define and expect a specific role. Especially if he is leaving his previous school because he doesn't feel he is developing, being used right, and/or wants to be a part of a winner.

And for a kid like J3, as has been stated, he can still work with the staff and get better. If a kid like J3 develops a decent shot, then you're talking about a 6'9" kid that can do everything but handle the ball as a point-forward. Also, think about a long, aggressive athlete like J3 on the break. Yeah. Vicious rim-quakes like unto Pompeii.

But at the same time, I don't think it is unfair to expect everyone involved in this scenario to properly vet things. I get the idea of collecting talent, but if a player doesn't want to buy into the philosophy here, then it isn't worth it for him or the program to "collect the talent."

MDABE80
05-06-2015, 05:09 PM
[QUOTE=cjm720;1117446]Leading the team in scoring and rebounds...doubt that he's leaving because he's not a good player![/QUOTE


http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/142/missouri-tigers

11.9/7 isn't a star....especially on THAT team. You kinda made my point. "Best" and "top" doesn't mean much.
My point should be clear....does a better, structured, successful program bring the better things out in a kid?
Id like to think so.

Coach Crazy
05-06-2015, 05:17 PM
[QUOTE=cjm720;1117446]Leading the team in scoring and rebounds...doubt that he's leaving because he's not a good player![/QUOTE


http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/142/missouri-tigers

11.9/7 isn't a star....especially on THAT team. You kinda made my point. "Best" and "top" doesn't mean much.
My point should be clear....does a better, structured, successful program bring the better things out in a kid?
Id like to think so.

I need a rec or a like button. +1.

cggonzaga
05-06-2015, 05:36 PM
11.9/7 isn't a star....especially on THAT team

Don't think anybody said anything about him being a star. You said he wasn't a good player. For one, I'd be surprised if you've ever even seen him play. Two, I think many would disagree he's not a good player including the staff at GU. You can discount stats all you want but they do count for something. And again, he put those up in the SEC so that counts for something too.

MDABE80
05-06-2015, 06:14 PM
Maybe so. I don't think I meant he's lousy. I was wondering how much better he could be in our program. no worries.