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Reborn
04-22-2015, 06:05 AM
There has been some talk lately about the 3 spot vacancy and who GU is recruiting for that position. One thing that has not been talked about very much is the fact that GU has Kyle Dranginis coming back and Bryon Alberts too. We are not seeing a big push by our coaches to recruit a 3 for next year, and I believe that this is why. This could very easily be Kyle Dranginis' year to shine, in the same way that last year it was Byron Wesley. The more that I think about Kyle the more I see him as cut from the same cloth as Wesley: strong rebounder, very good defender, attacks to the rim, better foul shooter, better outside shooter. Kyle has been mostly playing in the shadows of Kevin Pangos and Gary Bell over his first three years at GU. Well, they are gone now and someone is going to have to step up and IMO it's going to be Kyle D. I think that Kyle is very capable of getting the ten and a half points that Wesley got last season. I was pretty impressed with Dranginis's play last year. He won't be a major scorer in his senior season that Sam Dower was in his senior year, but Gonzaga doesn't need him to be.

And then there is Bryan Alberts. He is also 6'5". Coach Few has had a lot of nice things to say about Alberts in interview; so I'm pretty excited to see him play. I believe Alberts can easily score the 4.5 points that Dranginis scored off the bench last season. Alberts is a red shirt freshman and has now put in a year practicing with the team. I feel that this is a big advantage to bringing in a freshman to play right away. I feel Gonzaga is going to be strong at the 3 spot next season.

LongIslandZagFan
04-22-2015, 06:09 AM
There has been some talk lately about the 3 spot vacancy and who GU is recruiting for that position. One thing that has not been talked about very much is the fact that GU has Kyle Dranginis coming back and Bryon Alberts too. We are not seeing a big push by our coaches to recruit a 3 for next year, and I believe that this is why. This could very easily be Kyle Dranginis' year to shine, in the same way that last year it was Byron Wesley. The more that I think about Kyle the more I see him as cut from the same cloth as Wesley: strong rebounder, very good defender, attacks to the rim, better foul shooter, better outside shooter. Kyle has been mostly playing in the shadows of Kevin Pangos and Gary Bell over his first three years at GU. Well, they are gone now and someone is going to have to step up and IMO it's going to be Kyle D. I think that Kyle is very capable of getting the ten and a half points that Wesley got last season. I was pretty impressed with Dranginis's play last year. He won't be a major scorer in his senior season that Sam Dower was in his senior year, but Gonzaga doesn't need him to be.

And then there is Bryan Alberts. He is also 6'5". Coach Few has had a lot of nice things to say about Alberts in interview; so I'm pretty excited to see him play. I believe Alberts can easily score the 4.5 points that Dranginis scored off the bench last season. Alberts is a red shirt freshman and has now put in a year practicing with the team. I feel that this is a big advantage to bringing in a freshman to play right away. I feel Gonzaga is going to be strong at the 3 spot next season.

I'd think a backup(s) at PG/SG player to spell Melson and Perkins would be key. Front court is 2 deep at both positions. Likewise at the 3 with Draino and Alberts. A sharpshooter or shutdown defender would be nice.

DixieZag
04-22-2015, 06:36 AM
I think a starting line-up of Perkins, Drainginis, Wiltjer, Sabonis and Karnowski would be very intriguing. We'd be very big, Drainginis is a very good slasher IMO. If Perkins can shoot the 3 the way he was hitting them pre-injury last year, that line-up would be pretty cool to watch.

cjm720
04-22-2015, 06:36 AM
I'd think a backup(s) at PG/SG player to spell Melson and Perkins would be key. Front court is 2 deep at both positions. Likewise at the 3 with Draino and Alberts. A sharpshooter or shutdown defender would be nice.

The nice thing about Draino and Alberts is they are capable of playing multiple positions. Draino has been in the shadows, but he's a heckuva player....he'll shine this year regardless of role IMO. Personally I'm hoping Alberts is more of a SG....would love to get that 6'6"-6'8" wing.

GonzagasaurusFlex
04-22-2015, 06:45 AM
I agree with Reborn 100% in believing the '3' is in good hands next year with Kyle Dranginis and Bryan Alberts. KD is certainly capable of matching the 10ppg Zags got from BWes last season and he is at least as good a defender and rebounder. Love KD's toughness, team-first mentality and believe that as long as he shows up ready to roll next season he should be the starting 3 from day 1 and will thrive there all season long. Very excited to see what Alberts brings to the table too....with our post players, a lights out 3-point shooter off the bench will be a key cog in the machine.

Another possible scenario would be if the Zags bring in an absolute stud at the 3, in which case I would not be surprised to see KD start alongside Perkins as the shooting guard.....tighten up your handles this offseason Kyle!!

OT: Excited about the news Zags have offered 6'10 jc big man Vladimir Broziansky, as he has a nice shooting touch, footwork and, of course, height. Even though he would be eligible immediately coming from JC, I think a year to work on his body and bang with Sabonis, PK, Wiltjer in practice as a redshirt and settle into his Zagdom would be beneficial all the way around.

The fact all our bigs are returning tells me the great chemistry we heard so much about remains intact, and the Zags are on a mission to carry Coach Few to the Final Four. We were very fortunate to have two great, team-first young men in KD and BWes (and leaders in Pangos and Bell) that allowed all the new faces to gel quickly last season....not sure we can take that for granted if a stud grad transfer is brought in who expects to be given major minutes. However, I trust the coaching staff and players' vetting process and looking forward to learning what develops.

Final thought, with four open schollies and at least three major players leaving after next season (PK, KW, KD), I hope the Zags are not afraid to trust their 2016 recruiting and keep schollies available rather than fill them all up this season....perhaps a walk-on gets thrown a bone for a season and gets to play on scholarship for one year?

webspinnre
04-22-2015, 06:55 AM
As others have mentioned, the great thing is that both Kyle and Bryan can play the 2 as well, so even if we got a 3, we've still got options for where to play people, Kyle in particular.

jazzdelmar
04-22-2015, 06:59 AM
I think they are looking for an uber Wesley type at the 3; more of a scorer and bigger than KD and more experienced than Alberts. KD was terrific end of the year but my feeling is that they prefer him off the bench in a Hondo role and are wanting to add a 12 ppg scorer from the transfer mkt....Just MO.

jazzdelmar
04-22-2015, 07:03 AM
I think a starting line-up of Perkins, Drainginis, Wiltjer, Sabonis and Karnowski would be very intriguing. We'd be very big, Drainginis is a very good slasher IMO. If Perkins can shoot the 3 the way he was hitting them pre-injury last year, that line-up would be pretty cool to watch.

You never give up, Dix. And you are smart enough to know this will never happen. Gotta admire your determination, tho.

TheGonzagaFactor
04-22-2015, 07:18 AM
You never give up, Dix. And you are smart enough to know this will never happen. Gotta admire your determination, tho.

Agreed. I'd also love to clog up the paint and never score on offense while getting burned constantly on defense, but I don't think Few will go for it...

CDC84
04-22-2015, 07:45 AM
I think they are looking for an uber Wesley type at the 3; more of a scorer and bigger than KD and more experienced than Alberts. KD was terrific end of the year but my feeling is that they prefer him off the bench in a Hondo role and are wanting to add a 12 ppg scorer from the transfer mkt....Just MO.

Agreed. A Wesley with more athleticism as well. Which is why they are going hard after Damion Lee. The Zag coaching staff have an in home visit with him today. And if they don't land him, I expect them to pursue other grad transfers at the wing position after the semester ends and more names pop up.

The Zags have to replace about 30 points per game at the one through three spots in the starting lineup with a bunch of guys who haven't shown in their college careers (with the exception of McClellan) that they can consistently score in double figures. They also have to replace Pangos/Bell's long range shooting. The Zags also really could use a dynamic athlete at the wing, which is something they don't have right now. Someone who could give GU a little bit of what Justise Winslow brought to Duke this past year. Obviously, there are plenty of scholarships to hand out as well.

I tend to prefer Dranginis as a role player coming off the bench because of his ability to be a Swiss Army Knife. He's the perfect role player coming off the bench for a top 7 team. He does a little bit of everything but nothing really great. He would need to vastly improve his handle, long range shooting and decision making (at times) in order for me to feel comfortable with him in the starting lineup.

BTW - I still think that using a 2-1-2 zone with Karnowski, Sabonis, and Wiltjer starting could be GU's most effective defense. The zone would protect KW from being exposed on D, and the two seven footers would be less prone to picking up cheap fouls and provide GU with rim protection to allow the guards to extend out. As for the offense, Few is a genius...he would find ways to make things work. I expect Few and Co. to experiment with using all three bigs throughout next season - especially with Edwards now available as a backup big man. I just don't know if you will see that outfit as a starting lineup. And you certainly won't see it as a starting lineup if they land a wing like Damion Lee.

DixieZag
04-22-2015, 08:05 AM
You never give up, Dix. And you are smart enough to know this will never happen. Gotta admire your determination, tho.

Nope. I have nothing to "give up" - I do like the idea of having our best 3 on the floor at the same time, but that comment was more geared toward the fact that I think Dranginis can play the 2 as a slasher, especially if he can improve his 3pt percentage a little. I guess I should have left the rest of the comment out as "duplicative" of prior statement. I do appreciate the good natured kidding as opposed to the bare condescension of others. :)

BULLDOG#1
04-22-2015, 08:15 AM
BTW - I still think that using a 2-1-2 zone with Karnowski, Sabonis, and Wiltjer starting could be GU's most effective defense. The zone would protect KW from being exposed on D, and the two seven footers would be less prone to picking up cheap fouls and provide GU with rim protection to allow the guards to extend out. As for the offense, Few is a genius...he would find ways to make things work. I expect Few and Co. to experiment with using all three bigs throughout next season - especially with Edwards now available as a backup big man. I just don't know if you will see that outfit as a starting lineup. And you certainly won't see it as a starting lineup if they land a wing like Damion Lee.

That zone would get shredded by any good team. I guess I understand the idea of playing your best players all together, but it just doesn't make sense with these three. Unless Wiltjer or Bonus gain considerable footspeed over the summer, it would be crazy to play them all together. They were SO DARN EFFECTIVE sharing the minutes between them in the tournament this year, why mess with the good thing? There's plenty of minutes for all three in the 4-5 positions.

Those who think Few should start all three are nuts. Zone or not, imagine KW or DS trying to contain Davis or Collinsworth on the wing? Yikes. Sabonis may end up the zags best ever rebounder -- is it wise to take him away from a natural rebounding position and play on the wing?

zagfan1
04-22-2015, 08:21 AM
Kyle D plays more stiff than Wesley. He has improved a lot however from when he started. We need a slasher who can also shoot accurate threes. Alberts is still not proven. The smart move is to try to land Lee and have Kyle D come off the bench. That's why Wednesday is so important.

zagfan94
04-22-2015, 08:28 AM
Kyle D plays more stiff than Wesley. He has improved a lot however from when he started. We need a slasher who can also shoot accurate threes. Alberts is still not proven. The smart move is to try to land Lee and have Kyle D come off the bench. That's why Wednesday is so important.

You think Melson would start over Kyle at 2?

hooter73
04-22-2015, 08:28 AM
My honest opinion is that if Wesley hadn't have come in, Dranginis would have done very close to what Byron did. Kyle was a scorer and if called for, wouldve been one again. he has a similar game to Byron with an outside shot and better free throws. His average might not have been the same but given the same minutes, I think he wouldve already been a very comparable player. If for some reason he as a 5th year senior former Gatorade POTY, is again called on to just come off the bench as a role player, he will be underutilized into obscurity. I dont think that is going to be the case though.

jazzdelmar
04-22-2015, 08:40 AM
But we could do better than KD or Wes.......upper regions of D1 are tough business.....



My honest opinion is that if Wesley hadn't have come in, Dranginis would have done very close to what Byron did. Kyle was a scorer and if called for, wouldve been one again. he has a similar game to Byron with an outside shot and better free throws. His average might not have been the same but given the same minutes, I think he wouldve already been a very comparable player. If for some reason he as a 5th year senior former Gatorade POTY, is again called on to just come off the bench as a role player, he will be underutilized into obscurity. I dont think that is going to be the case though.

TravelinZag
04-22-2015, 08:43 AM
First preference would be to recruit a four-year SF who gives the Zags a different look at times while getting some minutes and learning the system. Long-term benefits are obvious, but some immediate benefits there too. If no strong candidate this late in the '15 recruiting cycle, then pick up a graduate transfer for the occasional change of pace, and concentrate on find the four-year SF in the class of '16. Zags' profile has risen, should be doable if the effort starts now.

CDC84
04-22-2015, 08:47 AM
That zone would get shredded by any good team. I guess I understand the idea of playing your best players all together, but it just doesn't make sense with these three. Unless Wiltjer or Bonus gain considerable footspeed over the summer, it would be crazy to play them all together. They were SO DARN EFFECTIVE sharing the minutes between them in the tournament this year, why mess with the good thing? There's plenty of minutes for all three in the 4-5 positions.

Those who think Few should start all three are nuts. Zone or not, imagine KW or DS trying to contain Davis or Collinsworth on the wing? Yikes. Sabonis may end up the zags best ever rebounder -- is it wise to take him away from a natural rebounding position and play on the wing?

KW doesn't have to contain Collingsworth if he's sitting in the middle of a 2-1-2 zone with the guards extending. He just has to put his arms up and force him to shoot over the top. And if he somehow gets by, you have Karno/Sabonis providing more rim protection. That's the whole point of a zone...to protect weak individual defenders and guys who are known for picking up cheap fouls. And to have enough length and size around the basket to discourage high percentage shots. GU will have more size and athleticism on the perimeter next year to keep guys out of the gaps and to close out on shooters.

I wouldn't play Sabonis at the 3 on offense. I would play KW at the 3 on offense. So Sabonis could continue to rebound on offense, and would still be near the rim on defense as KW would be in the middle of the zone.

The reason why all three were so good at sharing minutes this past season was because GU had Pangos, Bell and Wesley to provide scoring punch in the backcourt. Depending on whether Few is able to land a scorer like Damion Lee, I have real concerns about teams packing the paint due to the lack of offense along the perimeter. One way to get around that is to go with the three bigs at times.

Not suggesting that all three bigs should start. But I would be really surprised if Few doesn't experiment with that lineup next season. Especially if they aren't able to land an athletic scoring wing. If they don't land a scoring wing, going with three of the returning perimeters will be just as much, if not more of an "experiment" than going with all three bigs. You might as well try everything and see what works. If that makes me nuts, so be it.

BTW - Dranginis would struggle playing the two unless his handle vastly improved. He's better suited at the three. Depends on the matchup, however.

Hoopaholic
04-22-2015, 08:51 AM
That zone would get shredded by any good team. I guess I understand the idea of playing your best players all together, but it just doesn't make sense with these three. Unless Wiltjer or Bonus gain considerable footspeed over the summer, it would be crazy to play them all together. They were SO DARN EFFECTIVE sharing the minutes between them in the tournament this year, why mess with the good thing? There's plenty of minutes for all three in the 4-5 positions.

Those who think Few should start all three are nuts. Zone or not, imagine KW or DS trying to contain Davis or Collinsworth on the wing? Yikes. Sabonis may end up the zags best ever rebounder -- is it wise to take him away from a natural rebounding position and play on the wing?

I strongly believe we will see substantial minutes with all three on court at same time next season.

I disagree that this would get "shredded" up....guess we shall see

zagsfanforlife
04-22-2015, 08:58 AM
There has been some talk lately about the 3 spot vacancy and who GU is recruiting for that position. One thing that has not been talked about very much is the fact that GU has Kyle Dranginis coming back and Bryon Alberts too. We are not seeing a big push by our coaches to recruit a 3 for next year, and I believe that this is why. This could very easily be Kyle Dranginis' year to shine, in the same way that last year it was Byron Wesley. The more that I think about Kyle the more I see him as cut from the same cloth as Wesley: strong rebounder, very good defender, attacks to the rim, better foul shooter, better outside shooter. Kyle has been mostly playing in the shadows of Kevin Pangos and Gary Bell over his first three years at GU. Well, they are gone now and someone is going to have to step up and IMO it's going to be Kyle D. I think that Kyle is very capable of getting the ten and a half points that Wesley got last season. I was pretty impressed with Dranginis's play last year. He won't be a major scorer in his senior season that Sam Dower was in his senior year, but Gonzaga doesn't need him to be.

And then there is Bryan Alberts. He is also 6'5". Coach Few has had a lot of nice things to say about Alberts in interview; so I'm pretty excited to see him play. I believe Alberts can easily score the 4.5 points that Dranginis scored off the bench last season. Alberts is a red shirt freshman and has now put in a year practicing with the team. I feel that this is a big advantage to bringing in a freshman to play right away. I feel Gonzaga is going to be strong at the 3 spot next season.

Arent we going hard after Damion Lee?

Bkzag
04-22-2015, 09:05 AM
Many of you on here seem to think that 6'5"+ athletic wings that can handle the ball, be slashers and shooters are in abundance! They are actually in short supply AND they must "fit" into Coach Few's system and be willing to be "TEAM" players...BWES was three out of four and did make a difference for last season's successes.

KD will fill that position admirably but Alberts is an unknown at this point...as mentioned Coach Few has confidence in him and that means a lot.

Don't we need another guard...we currently have five for three spots...rather thin at the guard position one would think?

SteelZag
04-22-2015, 09:07 AM
My honest opinion is that if Wesley hadn't have come in, Dranginis would have done very close to what Byron did. Kyle was a scorer and if called for, wouldve been one again. he has a similar game to Byron with an outside shot and better free throws. His average might not have been the same but given the same minutes, I think he wouldve already been a very comparable player. If for some reason he as a 5th year senior former Gatorade POTY, is again called on to just come off the bench as a role player, he will be underutilized into obscurity. I dont think that is going to be the case though.

I have to agree. When KD filled in for GBJ when Gary was injured, he performed admirably. He started 8 games and shot 55% from the field and 37% from 3 and added 4.875 rebounds per game. His defense keeps improving and last season had a 2/1 assist ratio. Get rid of a bonehead play here and stop dribbling into a crowd of 3 defenders there and I'm not sure what's not to like.

MDABE80
04-22-2015, 09:21 AM
The difference between this team being an Elite 8 team vs a Final Four team will be at the wing. A seriously talented 3 will get us there.

roxdoc
04-22-2015, 09:43 AM
+1 Abe

GonzagasaurusFlex
04-22-2015, 10:23 AM
I strongly believe we will see substantial minutes with all three on court at same time next season.

I disagree that this would get "shredded" up....guess we shall see

I hope we see all three bigs playing simultaneously for stretches next year.

raise the zag
04-22-2015, 10:28 AM
'most improved player' according to Coaches/Players this past off-season:

Bryan Alberts.

Heard he's a tremendous athlete, solid shooter, and features one of the best pure "handles" on the team.

BULLDOG#1
04-22-2015, 10:35 AM
KW doesn't have to contain Collingsworth if he's sitting in the middle of a 2-1-2 zone with the guards extending. He just has to put his arms up and force him to shoot over the top. And if he somehow gets by, you have Karno/Sabonis providing more rim protection. That's the whole point of a zone...to protect weak individual defenders and guys who are known for picking up cheap fouls. And to have enough length and size around the basket to discourage high percentage shots. GU will have more size and athleticism on the perimeter next year to keep guys out of the gaps and to close out on shooters.

I wouldn't play Sabonis at the 3 on offense. I would play KW at the 3 on offense. So Sabonis could continue to rebound on offense, and would still be near the rim on defense as KW would be in the middle of the zone.

Respectfully disagree. The cheap fouls are going to come from Sabonis and Karnowski when they are slow on rotations after wing penetration in the zone. Neither is a great 'rim protector' and each has shown themselves to pick up cheap fouls on the helpside. If Wiltjer is the middle of the zone that would mean that both Karnowski and Sabonis would be away from the bucket when the offense moves the ball to either baseline. Yikes x2!

Protecting the weakest defender is not the whole point of a zone.

I do agree that Few will 'experiment' with different lineups, including the three bigs playing together -- possibly in a zone. I wouldn't expect it to be successful, tho.

Seems like putting a round peg in a square hole. There's enough minutes for all three playing the rotations used in the tourney - why play any of them out of position? Playing all three together will only increase the chances opponents will 'pack it in' the paint.

seacatfan
04-22-2015, 11:01 AM
Don't we need another guard...we currently have five for three spots...rather thin at the guard position one would think?

I disagree, 5 seems like plenty enough for 3 positions to me. It's basically what GU did last year. Who the 5 in the rotation were varied because of injuries and McClellan not being eligible til mid season. Hardly anybody actually plays 2 deep at all positions. Many teams go with only a 7 or 8 player rotation.

GonzagasaurusFlex
04-22-2015, 11:05 AM
'most improved player' according to Coaches/Players this past off-season:

Bryan Alberts.

Heard he's a tremendous athlete, solid shooter, and features one of the best pure "handles" on the team.

When was 'this past off-season?' You mean in the month since the season just ended or the off season last Fall?

seacatfan
04-22-2015, 11:09 AM
Lee would obviously be a great addition if they can get him. I think similarly to Wesley his scoring average would decrease significantly compared to the previous season if he were to join GU.

I'm excited to see the guys that are on on the roster now play and develop. Many of them are young and unproven, but they were recruited for a reason, yes? It was mentioned above that McClellan is the only current backcourt player at GU that has demonstrated he can be a scorer at the D1 level. However he showed almost no knack for scoring last year. I'd say he has as much to prove as any of the others. Melson went off a couple times, Dranginis on occasion has brought some offense, and Perkins certainly looked capable of bringing some scoring punch during the too brief number of games he played early in the season.

zagfan1
04-22-2015, 04:23 PM
You think Melson would start over Kyle at 2?
I am not sure. My assumption was Melson would be starting at the two and Kyle D would be playing the three. I still think Melson has more to prove before I get pretty comfortable with him starting at the two. May just have to accept this.

MickMick
04-22-2015, 07:13 PM
I just don't see Wiltjer playing at the three.

For the top programs, the three position is typically stocked with long armed dudes ranging from 6'4" to 6'6" that run like the wind. It is too much to ask Wiltjer to defend them and playing in a constant zone to accommodate Wiltjer is too limiting and creates very predictable offensive game planning for opponents. Few would pull his hair out trying to concoct effective defensive schemes.

Folks were trying to put Elias Harris at the three and he couldn't quite get his game to a competent level with respect to top competition. The experiment was a relative failure. For the record, I think Harris is more suited to play three than Wiltjer could ever hope to be.

Why are folks trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when history shows it just sets the team back? Just play the guys where they are naturally suited.

Generally, Wiltjer is a better basketball player than Dranginis. Specifically, Dranginis is a better three than Wiltjer. Better put, Wiltjer is better as a four than Dranginis is as a three, but Wiltjer is not a better three than Dranginis is.

CarolinaZagFan
04-22-2015, 08:17 PM
I'm really excited to see Draino get more minutes next year. I've always loved his game and what he brings to the table night in and night out. He has to be the best offensive rebounding guard off missed FT's I've ever seen haha. I think he has a big senior year in store for us.

Reborn
04-23-2015, 07:29 AM
Well! Lee's going to Louisville. I'm not disappointed. Something didn't fit. And that's not a bad thing. I'm not saying that Lee's not a very good player, or that he wouldn't have helped Gonzaga. It just wasn't a good fit. I am also excited to see Alberts play.

LongIslandZagFan
04-23-2015, 07:35 AM
Well! Lee's going to Louisville. I'm not disappointed. Something didn't fit. And that's not a bad thing. I'm not saying that Lee's not a very good player, or that he wouldn't have helped Gonzaga. It just wasn't a good fit. I am also excited to see Alberts play.

Guessing he wanted to start and get huge minutes... something Few likely wasn't willing to guarantee.

CDC84
04-23-2015, 07:47 AM
If Lee had committed to GU, I think it's likely he would've played significant minutes and would have started at SF. But the offense wouldn't have run through him. Not when you have three big guys named Wiltjer, Sabonis and Karnowski.

I just don't have the confidence some other people have in GU's returning off guards and wings when it comes to the offensive end of the floor. I have lots of confidence when it comes to the defense. Still concerned about defenses packing the middle unless Wiltjer, Sabonis and Karno play together. I hope guys improve, step up and ease my worries.

Reborn
04-23-2015, 07:47 AM
I those thoughts too, but I also thought that maybe the kid just wanted to play back East. I'm not really sure where Drexel is. Wesley, we must remember, was a West Coast kid. It's possible that in the end the kid didn't want to go to school on the West Coast. But my counter to that way of thinking is 'why would he invite to Few to go and meet with him and his family?' He must have been considering playing at GU. And after the meeting with Few or someone else, he was not given what he wanted.

seacatfan
04-23-2015, 09:44 AM
Drexel is in Philly.

Maybe it's not so much that he didn't get guarantees of what he wanted at GU, he just felt like Louisville was a good fit for him.

seacatfan
04-23-2015, 09:46 AM
Still concerned about defenses packing the middle unless Wiltjer, Sabonis and Karno play together.

Wouldn't playing all 3 bigs together lead to even more packing of the middle? Obviously Wiltjer can hit from distance but the other 2 rarely score from more than 2 feet away from the rim. If the other 2 bigs are both in the game, seems like Wiltjer wouldn't have much opportunity to post up or drive.

mgadfly
04-23-2015, 09:59 AM
I just don't see Wiltjer playing at the three.

For the top programs, the three position is typically stocked with long armed dudes ranging from 6'4" to 6'6" that run like the wind. It is too much to ask Wiltjer to defend them and playing in a constant zone to accommodate Wiltjer is too limiting and creates very predictable offensive game planning for opponents. Few would pull his hair out trying to concoct effective defensive schemes.

Folks were trying to put Elias Harris at the three and he couldn't quite get his game to a competent level with respect to top competition. The experiment was a relative failure. For the record, I think Harris is more suited to play three than Wiltjer could ever hope to be.

Why are folks trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when history shows it just sets the team back? Just play the guys where they are naturally suited.

Generally, Wiltjer is a better basketball player than Dranginis. Specifically, Dranginis is a better three than Wiltjer. Better put, Wiltjer is better as a four than Dranginis is as a three, but Wiltjer is not a better three than Dranginis is.


While I agree with pretty much all of this I'd point out that in 2006 we ran a ton of zone in order to fit a square peg into a round hole (Morrison into any position on defense). The question is whether Few believes Wiltjer's offense is good enough to get him increased minutes by playing him at the three from time to time. In 2006, Batista, Mallon, Morrison frontline did not - in any way - include a 6'4 to 6'6" guy that could run like the wind. Yet Few made it work and hid the individual liabilities in the zone, the best he could.

Will Few feel more pressure to get Sabonis minutes than he did Mallon at the four? I think he will.
Will Few feel that he has to get minutes for Edwards at the five? I think he will.
Is there a "3" that is so much better than playing zone and getting Sabonis/Edwards/Wiltjer more minutes? I don't know.

This isn't exactly 2006 because that team didn't have the depth or overall talent as 2016. Plus, Morrison wasn't a power forward. But there still is precedent for Few to put a sub-par athlete with a Witjer type game at the three based on team needs.

I'd imagine it happens again this year, at least for four or five minutes per game.

webspinnre
04-23-2015, 10:04 AM
Plus, Morrison wasn't a power forward.

This is the biggest problem with the comparison to me. Morrison wasn't a fantastic defender, but he was at least an SF, not a PF. Wiltjer isn't as fast, nor does he have the lateral quickness Adam did (which is fine, because Wiltjer plays the 4). So, even though we played zone to help cover up some of the weaknesses of Adam, he was still in better position to do that than Wiltjer or Sabonis. I expect we'll try some zone with all three at times, but I'd be surprised if it works very well.

EEzag
04-23-2015, 10:25 AM
This is the biggest problem with the comparison to me. Morrison wasn't a fantastic defender, but he was at least an SF, not a PF. Wiltjer isn't as fast, nor does he have the lateral quickness Adam did (which is fine, because Wiltjer plays the 4). So, even though we played zone to help cover up some of the weaknesses of Adam, he was still in better position to do that than Wiltjer or Sabonis. I expect we'll try some zone with all three at times, but I'd be surprised if it works very well.

Seems like AMMO and the word Defense used to be non inclusive. Wiltjer is quicker on D but that doesn't mean much. Both are elite scoring machines that need to stop letting the silly fouls keep them off the floor. I made the comment to a coworker last year that Kyle's defense was so good it could shut himself down....but no one else.

As for starting Wiltjer Sabonis and Karnowski or even playing all three at once, doesn't seem like a good idea....they don't compliment each other that way. In pairs, sure. Pick any two.

What we are going to miss more than the outside shooting is the relationship Pangos had with Wiltjer. 30% or more of Wiltjers points came from KP being a superb point gaurd and getting KW the ball in KW's scoring window.

CDC84
04-23-2015, 10:26 AM
Wouldn't playing all 3 bigs together lead to even more packing of the middle? Obviously Wiltjer can hit from distance but the other 2 rarely score from more than 2 feet away from the rim. If the other 2 bigs are both in the game, seems like Wiltjer wouldn't have much opportunity to post up or drive.

You maybe right. I was just thinking of it from a Thad Matta-type philosophy. Get your 5 most talented guys on the floor regardless of position. Few has a very creative offensive mind. I'm sure he would figure out ways to make it work.

The larger point is that if they don't land a proven wing scorer, Few is going to have to experiment. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. But I don't think Few would go into next season thinking, "I'm using three conventional perimeters in the starting lineup come hell or high water." He's going to go with whatever gives him the most offense.

Hoopaholic
04-23-2015, 10:33 AM
Wouldn't playing all 3 bigs together lead to even more packing of the middle? Obviously Wiltjer can hit from distance but the other 2 rarely score from more than 2 feet away from the rim. If the other 2 bigs are both in the game, seems like Wiltjer wouldn't have much opportunity to post up or drive.

NOPE

Placing Sabonis on one block, Karnowski on opposite block and flash opposite block post player to elbow, creates a vey very difficult option to defend....do you take away hi low option, sag off wiltjer to double down......

then you can have Wiltjer flash to elbow and work both hi low options keeping the opposite post player in position for rebounding when his man goes to help......

actually creates multiple triangle options which is the key to unclogging the middle

mgadfly
04-23-2015, 11:04 AM
This is the biggest problem with the comparison to me. Morrison wasn't a fantastic defender, but he was at least an SF, not a PF. Wiltjer isn't as fast, nor does he have the lateral quickness Adam did (which is fine, because Wiltjer plays the 4). So, even though we played zone to help cover up some of the weaknesses of Adam, he was still in better position to do that than Wiltjer or Sabonis. I expect we'll try some zone with all three at times, but I'd be surprised if it works very well.

Having recently watched the 2006 UCLA game I'm not sure that I can agree that Morrison was laterally quicker than Wiltjer (it's close) and I certainly disagree about Morrison being laterally quicker than Sabonis. The biggest difference is Wiltjer tries harder than Morrison on defense, is longer, an rebounds better (especially late this last season). So in the bottom of the 2-3 zone, where Wiltjer would be the "3" just like Morrison was, I think defensively it is an upgrade from 2006.

Morrison is more of a three, but defensively, I'm not sure it matters.

jazzdelmar
04-23-2015, 11:19 AM
Re Lee, plenty of fish in the sea. GU is in an enviable position. Much like Duke, which just cajoled a top 3 point guard to reclassify so he can replace Jones next year. Zags are not so much recruiting as casting for next year's big show.

cjm720
04-23-2015, 12:42 PM
I just don't see Sabonis, Wiltj, and Karno playing much together simply due to potential foul problems. I do like the concept of a 2-1-2 at times though.

Vanzagger
04-23-2015, 01:09 PM
We are loaded next year. It would take a genius to screw it up.

Zagdawg
04-23-2015, 01:30 PM
Perkins is more of a facilitator/distributor than Kevin. I am sure KW will be fine with the feeds from Perkins. I also like Perkins handles and ability to break pressure. Unfortuately his great ability to fake his opponent out and attack the hoop led to the injury. In the long term Perkins will be great at getting our players the ball where they need it.

ZagsObserver
04-23-2015, 05:03 PM
I lIke the curgent cast, but an additional body at the 2-3 spot who could challenge for a starting role would be ideal. I believe that's what the staff is going for.

Bouldin4Prez
04-23-2015, 05:04 PM
The 3 bigs lineup won't happen unless either Karno or DS develops a 10-12 foot jumper in the offseason. Neither have shown it so far in their career. Sabonis looks like he could develop a mid range jumper but we have to wait and see. I think Few sticks with the same bigs rotation as last year. 80/3 = roughly 26 minutes a night for these guys. With all 3 having a tendency to pick up dumb fouls it will probably look more like 20 minutes for one of them and 30 for the other two on most given nights.

I really don't see Edwards getting much run this year but next year he will be able to come in as a redshirt junior ready to dominate the WCC for two years. After 3 years of battling with the likes of SD, KW, PK, DS he will be seasoned against a bunch of big and skilled post players. The rest of the WCC will give a sigh of relief after PK graduates and moves on from Gonzaga just to see another 7'1 player come in.

ZagsObserver
04-23-2015, 05:07 PM
The 3 bigs lineup won't happen unless either Karno or DS develops a 10-12 foot jumper in the offseason. Neither have shown it so far in their career. Sabonis looks like he could develop a mid range jumper but we have to wait and see. I think Few sticks with the same bigs rotation as last year. 80/3 = roughly 26 minutes a night for these guys. With all 3 having a tendency to pick up dumb fouls it will probably look more like 20 minutes for one of them and 30 for the other two on most given nights.

I really don't see Edwards getting much run this year but next year he will be able to come in as a redshirt junior ready to dominate the WCC for two years. After 3 years of battling with the likes of SD, KW, PK, DS he will be seasoned against a bunch of big and skilled post players. The rest of the WCC will give a sigh of relief after PK graduates and moves on from Gonzaga just to see another 7'1 player come in.

Agree. Edwards will get a few more minutes than Nunez did. This has nothing to do with his ability and everything to do with the cast around him in the frontcourt

jchocolate99
04-23-2015, 10:36 PM
What we are going to miss more than the outside shooting is the relationship Pangos had with Wiltjer. 30% or more of Wiltjers points came from KP being a superb point gaurd and getting KW the ball in KW's scoring window.

Perkins is a way better facilitator than Pango's and the bigs will benefit even more with Perkins at the point with his elite passing ability. Like I've said before I loved pango's during his time at GU but we upgrade at the PG position next year with Perkins