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View Full Version : How many NBA prospects does it take to make the Final 4?



Birddog
04-06-2015, 05:35 PM
IIRC, some years back somebody wrote an article that stated you need at least 2 NBA prospects to make the Final 4. It could be that it was stated you needed 2 to win the title, I'm not sure which way it was. With that in mind, lets look at the NBA draft prospects from Draft Express that were in the Elite 8.

All listings are from the top 100 prospects. I think I got em all.
1) Duke has 3 :2 Okafor, 5 Winslow, 29 Tyrus Jones.
2) Wisconsin has 3 : 10 Kaminsky, 13 Dekker, 27 Nigel Hayes
3) Kentucky had 6:1 Karl Towns, 6 Cauley-Stein, 17 Booker, 19 Lyles, 41 Johnson, 60 A Harrison
4) Mich St had 1: 94 Dawson
5) Louisville had 1: 21 Montrezl Harrell
6)Arizona had 5: 9 Stanley Johnson, 22 Jefferson, 66 Tarczewski, 79 McConnell, 96 Ashley
7) Notre Dame had 2: 16 Jerion Grant, 26 Demetrius Johnson

Do you see a pattern? Can you spot any trends? Are there any glaring deficiencies?
Thoughts?

DixieZag
04-06-2015, 05:41 PM
By that standard (looks like top 100?), it would seem like we have 3? Sabonis, Karno and Wiltjer?

Birddog
04-06-2015, 05:47 PM
By that standard (looks like top 100?), it would seem like we have 3? Sabonis, Karno and Wiltjer?

Nope, none of them are in the top 100 for 2015 Draft per Draft Express.

gonzagafan62
04-06-2015, 05:55 PM
Nope, none of them are in the top 100 for 2015 Draft per Draft Express.

Next year (2016) we have Sabonis #18 and wiltjer #49 according to your same source.

CDC84
04-06-2015, 06:55 PM
Having multiple NBA guys is not as important when it comes to making the final 4. It's almost an absolute necessity to win a title. There's a huge difference between winning 4 in a row and winning 6 in a row.

Birddog
04-06-2015, 07:07 PM
Having multiple NBA guys is not as important when it comes to making the final 4. It's almost an absolute necessity to win a title. There's a huge difference between winning 4 in a row and winning 6 in a row.

Agreed, but Final Four is 5 in a row, pretty close to the same IMO.

raise the zag
04-06-2015, 07:21 PM
Huh?

We have at least one.

Chad Ford has Sabonis listed as #28 in 2015 draft, and a 'guaranteed' 1st Rounder this season if he declared.

He's ranked much higher for 2016, and considered a borderline lottery pick if he improves.

Wiltjer is consensus All-American. Karnowski isn't prototypical NBA athlete, yet clearly one of the Top-5 Centers in D1.

Perkins is Top-25 recruit i.e. NBA radars. Melson is NBA athlete.

Point is, we have the horses. No excuses.

More versatile defense, better Coaching in the clutch, and more aggressive/confident guard play will get us there.

Coach Few really needs to let his guards "ball" more and encourage them to "take it". Yes, Gonzaga is an inside-outside team, yet as you've seen with every team in the Final 4, even Elite 8, its the GUARD play that gets them past the brink.

We needed more moxy, aggression, and taking the ball to the hoop (at least past the 1st defender) to win. Passing the ball inside gets you in great position, yet any good team will find a way to stop the system.

We need more freestyle confidence in our players to make it happen when passing it to the bigs don't always work.

Pangos and Co were so used to finding our bigs, they couldn't improvise when needed or called upon.

My only hope is Perkins, McClellan, Melson, Dranginis, Alberts don't get "neutered" by Coach Few's style and find a will and way to win when it matters most.

Our bigs will carry us to the NCAA, even Sweet 16, yet it will be up to our guys' to carry them the rest of the way. We need some ballers within the system or we will continue to get swallowed up vs teams with excellent play-making confident aggressive guards.

seacatfan
04-06-2015, 07:28 PM
They rank the top 100 draft prospects? Why? There are barely over half that many picks, only 2 rounds, a lot of those guys are going undrafted. I wouldn't be surprised if Michigan St. has no one on this team end up being drafted. Dawson wasn't even close to the most important player on the team, Trice and Valentine made them go.

Malastein
04-06-2015, 07:51 PM
Karnowski isn't prototypical NBA athlete, yet clearly one of the Top-5 Centers in D1.

This isn't clear to me at all. The Zags are talented enough to win it all. Pangos was always better at shooting at home than on the road, and he didn't have confidence to shoot in the dome. That wasn't Few's doing.

U Zig, I Zag
04-06-2015, 08:56 PM
We need some ballers within the system or we will continue to get swallowed up vs teams with excellent play-making confident aggressive guards.

I think this is it. Really.

TheGonzagaFactor
04-07-2015, 10:13 AM
It doesn't take any NBA guys to make the Final 4. It does, however, take at least 2 to win it all.

CDC84
04-07-2015, 11:21 AM
Lots of folks refer to Villanova's win over G'Town as being one of the biggest upsets of all time....and yet Nova had a lottery pick, another 1st rounder and I believe an eventual 2nd rounder. Not exactly chopped liver.

TheGonzagaFactor
04-07-2015, 02:37 PM
Lots of folks refer to Villanova's win over G'Town as being one of the biggest upsets of all time....and yet Nova had a lottery pick, another 1st rounder and I believe an eventual 2nd rounder. Not exactly chopped liver.

Yeah that sounds like a case of regular season underachievement.

Bouldin4Prez
04-07-2015, 02:44 PM
Agreed, but Final Four is 5 in a row, pretty close to the same IMO.

Final 4 takes 4 wins. Zags won 3 this year and made the Elite 8. By my calculations, one more win added to 3 gets us to the final 4.

Birddog
04-08-2015, 05:59 AM
Final 4 takes 4 wins. Zags won 3 this year and made the Elite 8. By my calculations, one more win added to 3 gets us to the final 4.

My math skills are suspect. I knew I should have used my fingers instead of figuring that out in my head. Good catch.

Zagger
04-08-2015, 09:21 AM
Sorry for being a stick in the mud on this but ... if a team plays well enough to make the Final Four or win it all it's gotta have a bunch of guys that play really well to do it. If they were not on serious NBA radar before the winning game they sure will be afterwards. College ball is a proving grounds for the NBA (unless they go right out of high school). It just makes sense that there will be some future NBA kids on winning college teams - the better the team plays the more NBA types. If none of the kids on a winning team are NBA types then the NBA would be seriously looking at the coach. So, I don't really get the point of this thread. The NBA doesn't have anything to do with who wins the Dance and it is common sense that really good players will be a part of winning teams.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2015, 09:27 AM
Crookapari evidently needs at least 7

Birddog
04-08-2015, 09:48 AM
Sorry for being a stick in the mud on this but ... if a team plays well enough to make the Final Four or win it all it's gotta have a bunch of guys that play really well to do it. If they were not on serious NBA radar before the winning game they sure will be afterwards. College ball is a proving grounds for the NBA (unless they go right out of high school). It just makes sense that there will be some future NBA kids on winning college teams - the better the team plays the more NBA types. If none of the kids on a winning team are NBA types then the NBA would be seriously looking at the coach. So, I don't really get the point of this thread. The NBA doesn't have anything to do with who wins the Dance and it is common sense that really good players will be a part of winning teams.

I don't disagree with you. One of the points of this thread is that among the teams in the Elite Eight, only Gonzaga did not have a Draft Express 2015 top 100 player.
I'm aware that Sabonis is considered a candidate for next year. Look at the Final Four teams personnel. With the exception of MSU,they are stacked with guys that will or could be drafted in the first round. Is Gonzaga an overachiever or is Gonzaga falling behind the mark to make a FF run? JMO, but I think Wiltjer and Karnowski are iffy to make NBA rosters after next year. I hope i am wrong about that. They probably will make top 100 lists though.

Bkzag
04-08-2015, 09:56 AM
Crookapari evidently needs at least 7

and he was out coached AND UW out played them defensively...

rennis
04-08-2015, 10:54 AM
Butler had two NBA players on it's team in 2010 - Hayward and Mack. They were not the plucky underdog that many remember them to be that year. That was a seriously good team and was under-seeded in the tourney.

In 2011? THAT is when they overachieved, making it all the way back to the title game with just one NBA player, Mack. That was seriously impressive, but again, they were underseeded.

I bring this up because a lot of people point to Butler as a team that "almost did it" without equivalent talent, but they were actually loaded those years. There's a bunch of guys from those squads playing overseas too.