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CDC84
04-03-2015, 01:35 PM
Both games are on TBS:

3:09 PT = (7) Michigan State (1) Duke
5:49 PT = (1) Wisconsin (1) Kentucky

Who are your picks and why?

Think I will go with Duke and UK. I expect the Wisconsin/Kentucky game to be tightly contested with UK pulling away late.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-03-2015, 01:40 PM
I think Duke and UK will win.

But go Wisconsin and ESPECIALLY Michigan St.

zagfan24
04-03-2015, 01:40 PM
Duke wins the first one. Michigan State doesn't have the size that GU was able to depend on, and despite Izzo's greatness I just can't see MSU coming up with enough offense to win that game...Duke 82 MSU 72.

Wisconsin is definitely the best team Kentucky will have played all year. However, I also feel like Kaminsky may be overmatched a bit here. It will come down to Wisconsin's outside shooting...Dekker, Koenig, et al need to hit some from distance to stay close. I'm expecting a dialed in Kentucky team that wins by 5...70-65.

seacatfan
04-03-2015, 02:03 PM
Wisconsin vs. Kentucky is interesting. Arizona had nobody that could guard Kaminsky inside or outside. I think Kentucky could possibly do both. They have a ton of big guys and one or more of them have to be more mobile than Tarczewski is. And as good as Kaminsky is, the Arizona game revealed that he's a fairly poor interior defender. Kentucky's bigs should be able to exploit that. I really can't see Dekker, Hayes and the rest of the Badgers raining 3's at a clip anywhere close to what they did against Arizona. Wisconsin was virtually the same team last year when they lost to a far lesser UK team, I think the Wildcats take them again.

Yeah, have a hard time seeing Sparty beat Duke. Which means CBS will get their dream matchup of UK vs. Duke in the Title Game, and I don't think I'll bother to watch. Strongly dislike both, I lose either way.

DixieZag
04-03-2015, 02:47 PM
I simply cannot watch the tournament after GU is out. It's not because It's not b/c I am a GU fan and not BB. I watch other teams all year. It's just I get so bummed out about a tourney loss, and not seeing certain players again (no matter what year), I just don't enjoy watching teams play beyond.

It was fun watching the second weekend and the second game. I am elated we got that.

CDC84
04-03-2015, 02:51 PM
I think it's going to be extra painful watching Duke play....knowing that Gonzaga could have been there if they just beaten them, and knowing that they were beatable.

gonzagafan62
04-03-2015, 03:02 PM
I simply cannot watch the tournament after GU is out. It's not because It's not b/c I am a GU fan and not BB. I watch other teams all year. It's just I get so bummed out about a tourney loss, and not seeing certain players again (no matter what year), I just don't enjoy watching teams play beyond.

It was fun watching the second weekend and the second game. I am elated we got that.

Exactly this except I usually watch tile game.

UKWildcatsFan
04-03-2015, 06:34 PM
I think it's going to be extra painful watching Duke play....knowing that Gonzaga could have been there if they just beaten them, and knowing that they were beatable.

That's always the worst. Reminds me of 2006 in that game against UCLA, and thinking Gonzaga could have had the possibility to make the Final Four, while watching UCLA play in the title game, had they just beat them, which they definitely could have.

UKWildcatsFan
04-03-2015, 06:35 PM
I think Duke and UK will win.

But go Wisconsin and ESPECIALLY Michigan St.

I agree with you, I think Kentucky and Duke will win (and am obviously desperately hoping Kentucky wins). I think a Kentucky/Duke title game would be great for college basketball though. In terms of ratings, and all that nonsense. Would be cool to see Michigan State get into the title game though and have back-to-back years with a 7 seed in the title game.

gonzagafan62
04-03-2015, 06:43 PM
I might as well see history 40-0..... And I really don't see these games being lose. Duke will roll michigan state. Kentucky wins by 10.

DixieZag
04-03-2015, 07:44 PM
I dunno. Michigan State had Wisconsin beaten. One terribly blown out of bounds call kept them from notching the win, literally. They essentially won.

I think they seem to be playing well enough and are confident enough that they are as dangerous a team as there is out there, b/c I do not believe Wisconsin is much below Duke. Kentucky? Well, Mich State has about as good a chance as anyone else, provided they prove they are good enough to get by the semi's.

U Zig, I Zag
04-03-2015, 08:45 PM
UK is vulnerable. I suppose Wiscy could do it. ND should have done it.

Coach Cal's interview post game after that game versus Coach K's interview post the Zags Duke game were miles apart. I actually like Duke. Most don't. But I felt better listening to K's opinion after AND Coach K stood, in line, with Pangos for way longer than normal talking to him after the game. Warriors respect warriors.

At any rate. I see UK moving on. I see Duke moving on and well, I just can't root for UK.

webspinnre
04-03-2015, 08:56 PM
I passionately hate that the national semifinals are on TBS. Apparently a national audience isn't as important as cable $$ (which we knew, but its still lame).

Zag 77
04-03-2015, 09:03 PM
It is hard to follow the tournament once the Zags are out. I will probably do some yard work Saturday and read the results the next day.

Zagceo
04-03-2015, 09:36 PM
I passionately hate that the national semifinals are on TBS. Apparently a national audience isn't as important as cable $$ (which we knew, but its still lame).

The reason it's on cable..............not regulated by FCC like networks. Can have more advertising per hour and the audience for TBS makes it a win win.

KStyles
04-04-2015, 01:04 AM
The reason it's on cable..............not regulated by FCC like networks. Can have more advertising per hour and the audience for TBS makes it a win win.

Or Turner Sports & CBS signed an agreement a few years ago that gave Turner the right to air late round games. It's not an on-the-fly decision.

Also, I'm pretty sure that cable doesn't get more/longer media timeouts than network (e.g. the games of the first four rounds). I could be wrong though...

MickMick
04-04-2015, 01:36 AM
I think Duke takes the whole thing.

I give Michigan State no chance. Michigan State's Valentine can make big plays, but he makes bonehead plays as well. His shot selection can be very questionable at times and you can see Izzo going frantic on the sideline when Valentine goes rogue.

If Wisconsin's Sam Dekker plays like he did last week, UK might be in trouble and after that, possibly Duke as well. Dekker is a runaway train that can really shoot the rock. I would say that Wisconsin's Dekker and Duke's Winslow have impressed me the most in this tournament. Of course I have not seen all the games so actually seeing them is the qualifier.

Zagceo
04-04-2015, 02:56 AM
Or Turner Sports & CBS signed an agreement a few years ago that gave Turner the right to air late round games. It's not an on-the-fly decision.

Also, I'm pretty sure that cable doesn't get more/longer media timeouts than network (e.g. the games of the first four rounds). I could be wrong though...


Who said anything about on the fly decision?

link (http://www.adweek.com/news/television/you-endure-more-commercials-when-watching-cable-networks-150575)

Rangerzag
04-04-2015, 03:02 AM
Raftery on the team for the first time.

I usually feel like some of you other guys and just look at the scores of the games.

Raft on the team makes it far more tempting to tune in.


Story about Raft in Rolling Stone:
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/final-ly-four-at-long-last-bill-raftery-gets-the-call-20150402

KStyles
04-04-2015, 03:14 AM
Who said anything about on the fly decision?

link (http://www.adweek.com/news/television/you-endure-more-commercials-when-watching-cable-networks-150575)

Me, I threw that in (and I see your point in general). However, the NCAA tourney is timed out to the second. Just because the games are on cable doesn't mean longer timeouts. And I absolutely could be wrong, but I'd like to see evidence of the TBS/TNT/TRU having longer timeouts than CBS games before I admit it http://i.imgur.com/8pRv7Pc.gif

webspinnre
04-04-2015, 08:07 AM
Or Turner Sports & CBS signed an agreement a few years ago that gave Turner the right to air late round games. It's not an on-the-fly decision.

Also, I'm pretty sure that cable doesn't get more/longer media timeouts than network (e.g. the games of the first four rounds). I could be wrong though...

I know it isn't on the fly, but it still sucks. Continues the long-standing trend of moving major sports away from broadcast and onto cable.

RenoZag
04-04-2015, 08:18 AM
Rooting for Izzo and Ryan. Coach K has owned Izzo so far so there's probably not much hope of the Spartans winning today. Rooting interest in Bucky Badger is strictly a bracket preference. . .

As they say about the Super Bowl: Just hoping for a good game ( x two)

Enjoy your weekends !

DixieZag
04-04-2015, 08:19 AM
I know it isn't on the fly, but it still sucks. Continues the long-standing trend of moving major sports away from broadcast and onto cable.

I had noticed the drift but never thought about the "why." Is it b/c some of these events are must see TV and therefore the cable stations can charge the same in Advertising but the Channel itself can charge the cable companies more per year?

MDABE80
04-04-2015, 10:03 AM
If Notre Dame can keep UK on the ropes for 38 minutes, so can MSU. I hope they go the distance....and win the whole thing. LOVE Izzo.

SteelZag
04-04-2015, 10:41 AM
I know it isn't on the fly, but it still sucks. Continues the long-standing trend of moving major sports away from broadcast and onto cable.

I couldn't help but notice FOX has moved their Sprint Cup races to FS1. Although ratings for the first race on FS1 were down 34% from previous year, ratings have been showing a steady decline for years. As long as advertisers and networks are happy, I'm guessing the switch to cable will continue.

Here is an article almost 2 yrs. old explaining sports programming and the dollars involved. Might want to read on a slow, rainy day.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar/story/2013-08-15/nascar-tv-coverage-network-contract-fox-sports-1-nbc-deal-ratings

Ekrub
04-04-2015, 02:54 PM
Since when I Duke this strong defensively?

ZagLawGrad
04-04-2015, 02:56 PM
Since when I Duke this strong defensively?

Since last Sunday?

DixieZag
04-04-2015, 03:03 PM
Kind of redeeming seeing Duke a significantly larger lead at half. - 11 point as opposed to 5.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2015, 03:05 PM
Jones Matt can't hit the ocean. Grant Hill a zero. How does go get this gig ahead of far more experienced analysts. Chemistry askew w Raft and Jim Masters

VinnyZag
04-04-2015, 03:06 PM
Since when I Duke this strong defensively?

I didn't understand it last week and I still don't. Their defensive numbers were poor all year, but now they look great on that end.

VinnyZag
04-04-2015, 03:08 PM
Jones Matt can't hit the ocean. Grant Hill a zero. How does go get this gig ahead of far more experienced analysts. Chemistry askew w Raft and Jim Masters

I wish we could have the old ESPN crew of Raftery, Bilas and whoever the play by play guy was. They were really good.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2015, 03:12 PM
Crookapari enters, looking like a pit boss in Vegas.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2015, 03:13 PM
I wish we could have the old ESPN crew of Raftery, Bilas and whoever the play by play guy was. They were really good.

Dan Shulman or Sean Mconough wd be fine

montanazag88
04-04-2015, 03:14 PM
Zags, IMO, clearly handled Dukes defense better then M. St. in the first half. Our bigs were much more successful. If we get the ball in the post more effectively and hit a couple threes... we are giving the Spartans a beating. Speculation is easy at this stage, of course.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-04-2015, 03:22 PM
I didn't understand it last week and I still don't. Their defensive numbers were poor all year, but now they look great on that end.

They haven't suddenly improved on D. Michigan St. just started missing shots. Had nothing to do with Duke. Just like our poor shooting on Sunday had little to do with their D.

The percentage from 3 your opponent shoots has been shown to be mostly random.

U Zig, I Zag
04-04-2015, 03:28 PM
Spartans are gonna get ran out of Indy.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2015, 03:38 PM
Koach working Grayson Allens confidence for next year. A blowout. End of the Izzo idolatry.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-04-2015, 03:44 PM
Koach working Grayson Allens confidence for next year. A blowout. End of the Izzo idolatry.

Uhh...he's still a pretty good coach I think.

We would've done the same thing to MSU. Gaaaaahhhh we were so close to playing on a Monday night in April

jazzdelmar
04-04-2015, 03:46 PM
Fawning over Hill and Koach is nauseating now.

MDABE80
04-04-2015, 03:59 PM
Duke's doing a nice job on MSU. Such defense! We turned over 13 times to Duke's 3 last Sunday. Our bigs did well against Duke's till the last 5 minutes..then the shots wouldn't fall ( just like MSU's today). But wow....Duke's man to man is scary.

MickMick
04-04-2015, 04:09 PM
Duke is going to win the whole ball of wax.

sittingon50
04-04-2015, 04:22 PM
"Up by 20!"

BobZag
04-04-2015, 04:27 PM
If there's one coach and team that can beat Kentucky, it's Coach K and Duke. If he can't, nobody can.

Love him or hate him, he's a great coach. I hate playing against him.

kyle dixon
04-04-2015, 04:29 PM
Seriously who cares about the final scores? A result is the result. Jim Nantz could be better..

sittingon50
04-04-2015, 04:33 PM
Seriously who cares about the final scores? A result is the result. Jim Nantz could be better..

Nah, Jim has no clue.

VinnyZag
04-04-2015, 04:36 PM
They haven't suddenly improved on D. Michigan St. just started missing shots. Had nothing to do with Duke. Just like our poor shooting on Sunday had little to do with their D.

The percentage from 3 your opponent shoots has been shown to be mostly random.

That's certainly true about 3-point shooting, but I don't know how you could've watched this game and the Gonzaga game and NOT see great defense. It's not just poor shooting, not in this case.

LionKid
04-04-2015, 04:55 PM
I think Duke wins it all. They have been under the radar for most of the year because of what Kentucky has done. Everyone wants to talk about Kentucky's NBA players, but Duke has two top 5 picks in Okafor and Winslow. Tyus Jones will probably be a late lottery pick as well. The backcourt combo of Cook and Jones for Duke is so good, both guys play with such great poise.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-04-2015, 04:56 PM
That's certainly true about 3-point shooting, but I don't know how you could've watched this game and the Gonzaga game and NOT see great defense. It's not just poor shooting, not in this case.

Yes, they played good defense. They're a solid defensive team. But it wasn't their defense that caused us or Michigan St. to miss all our shots. They haven't "stepped up their effort on the defensive end." That's just a convenient, common media narrative.

Reborn
04-04-2015, 04:58 PM
Duke took the 3 pt shot away from Gonzaga, and did it again today against Mich.St. Like GU, Mich St was a very good 3 pt shooting. Duke also took away the dribble drive and got lots of turnovers against both GU and Mich. St. Michigan St did not have the inside presence that GU did and that's why the ZAGS WERE BETTER AGAINST DUKE. I think GU takes Mich St. Zags could end up 6th or 5th in last AP poll. Not bad. What irritated me was how that (unknown) Jones hit all those 3's against us and he couldn't make #### today. Go figure. Also Winston's in foul trouble today and sits a lot. Okafer get's 20 today. Go Zags!!!

MickMick
04-04-2015, 05:03 PM
The Sam Dekker show is about to begin. Love watching that guy.

CDC84
04-04-2015, 05:31 PM
I swear, every time I watch 5-8 Tyler Ulis of Kentucky play, I can only think of one thing: "Son, you're going to be recruited over all 4 years." And sure enough, next year Cal has an elite PG coming in, Isaiah Briscoe, who will be starting over Ulis next year.

bballbeachbum
04-04-2015, 05:44 PM
35 second clock helps Wisconsin, controls tempo, ups the pressure on each possession to score vs. quick jacks and more shots

bballbeachbum
04-04-2015, 05:47 PM
but all in a row UK hits a 3, causes Wisconsin's 3rd TO, then UK gets their first o board, and bam back in the game

Zagsker
04-04-2015, 06:08 PM
Watching the team focused broadcasts on TruTV and TNT is hilarious

CDC84
04-04-2015, 06:46 PM
Final Four "Charbage" against Wisconsin

MDABE80
04-04-2015, 06:50 PM
Good game.........ON WISCONSIN!!

surfmonkey89
04-04-2015, 06:54 PM
How is that a no call

mtzaga
04-04-2015, 06:56 PM
Slap shot. How'd they miss that?

CdAZagFan
04-04-2015, 06:56 PM
How is that a no call

Reminds me of Perklns drive this year... Totally blatant contact and no call.

surfmonkey89
04-04-2015, 06:59 PM
Reminds me of Perklns drive this year... Totally blatant contact and no call.

And then they call the Wisconsin guy for an arm bar that pales in comparison to what Harrison has been delivering all game...

MDABE80
04-04-2015, 07:04 PM
Huge charge!!

CdAZagFan
04-04-2015, 07:06 PM
Wow... can't figure out these calls. Thought Kaminsky was set on that call...

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-04-2015, 07:08 PM
Wow... can't figure out these calls. Thought Kaminsky was set on that call...

He looked set to me. Were his feet inside the line?

CDC84
04-04-2015, 07:08 PM
I swear if Aaron Harrison hits another freaking clutch 3 pointer in the NCAA tournament to tie this game..........

CdAZagFan
04-04-2015, 07:08 PM
I don't think so... But these calls have been all over the place in the last few minutes. But man what an exciting game...

ZagaZags
04-04-2015, 07:13 PM
3

2

1

http://www.kentucky.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=888&fid=1383

http://www.drodd.com/images8/funny-gif/funny-gif17.gif

RenoZag
04-04-2015, 07:14 PM
Darth Calipari goes down. . .Badgers overcame a number of BS calls there in the final act.

Maybe this is Bo Ryan's year.

MDABE80
04-04-2015, 07:15 PM
Out toughed em did Wisky!!

bballbeachbum
04-04-2015, 07:15 PM
yay

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-04-2015, 07:15 PM
Thank you, Badgers.

CdAZagFan
04-04-2015, 07:16 PM
Wisconsin looked lost around the last 4-5 minute mark, but made a nice burst to finish it off.

CDC84
04-04-2015, 07:18 PM
Just you watch.....there will be more discussion about whether or not it would've benefitted UK to lose a game than how well Wisconsin played tonight.

That being said, the Badgers winning tonight just didn't feel like a significant upset. Wisconsin is simply the best team UK has faced all year, and one of the 2 teams in the nation best equipped to beat them.

I remember when UNLV lost in the national semis to Duke in 1991, and THAT was a significant upset.

MDABE80
04-04-2015, 07:19 PM
Perfect no more........good for the game. Good final comin up on Mondayl!

LongIslandZagFan
04-04-2015, 07:19 PM
All is right in the world. Now I am a Badger fan on Monday.

surfmonkey89
04-04-2015, 07:20 PM
3

2

1

http://www.kentucky.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=888&fid=1383

http://www.drodd.com/images8/funny-gif/funny-gif17.gif

They're blaming it on the no call on the shot clock violation. Whatever.

TexasZagFan
04-04-2015, 07:21 PM
Just you watch.....there will be more discussion about whether or not it would've benefitted UK to lose a game than how well Wisconsin played tonight.

That being said, the Badgers winning tonight just didn't feel like a significant upset. Wisconsin is simply the best team UK has faced all year, and one of the 2 teams in the nation best equipped to beat them.

I remember when UNLV lost in the national semis to Duke in 1991, and THAT was an significant upset.

Agreed. This was not an upset.

CdAZagFan
04-04-2015, 07:21 PM
Just you watch.....there will be more discussion about whether or not it would've benefitted UK to lose a game than how well Wisconsin played tonight.

That being said, the Badgers winning tonight just didn't feel like a significant upset. Wisconsin is simply the best team UK has faced all year, and one of the 2 teams in the nation best equipped to beat them.

I remember when UNLV lost in the national semis to Duke in 1991, and THAT was an significant upset.

Agreed... I also thought Notre Dame outplayed Kentucky (but give UK credit for finishing that one off). It finally caught up to them with an even better team.

CDC84
04-04-2015, 07:24 PM
You have to wonder how Wisconsin is going to respond Monday night. This was such a monster win.....not only did they take down an undefeated team, but they got revenge. It's probably for the best that there is a quick turnaround.

Birddog
04-04-2015, 07:24 PM
How about them Zebr....er Badgers!

TexasZagFan
04-04-2015, 07:27 PM
I guess the SEC didn't prepare Kentucky enough for a Big Ten opponent.

jayray
04-04-2015, 07:28 PM
How come they didn't show Ashley Judd all game?

surfmonkey89
04-04-2015, 07:29 PM
I guess the SEC didn't prepare Kentucky enough for a Big Ten opponent.

To be honest, this is probably true.

GonzaGAW
04-04-2015, 07:29 PM
so happy that Wisconsin won, I hate duke and kentucky both, now I have a team to root for in the finals.

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-04-2015, 07:29 PM
I was not surprised to see Kentucky fall. This Wisconsin team is by far the best team any of these Kentucky kids has played against during their collegiate careers.

katman50
04-04-2015, 07:35 PM
Great game Badgers. This is how you win. 82% from the foul line, 41% from 3, 48% FG, 10 turnovers. Smart players. Upper classmen. Am very pleased. I figured (truly) that Kentucky would go down somewhere and weren't going to win the championship. My night is complete! Would have even more complete if Sparty would have won. Go Wisky! Beat Dook!

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-04-2015, 07:37 PM
This was a year when there were a lot of really good teams competing for the National Title. My eye test tells me that Arizona, Duke, Wisconsin, and Kentucky were all better than the Louisville and UCONN squads that won the last two titles. Notre Dame and Villanova weren't far behind.

There have been a lot of seasons when a team as good as this year's Zags would have had a great shot at reaching the Final Four and a puncher's chance of winning the whole thing. Instead, we were merely a really good team fighting against one of the toughest tournament fields in recent memory.

CDC84
04-04-2015, 07:40 PM
The TBS guys are already talking about the missed shot clock violation with under 3 to go that resulted in that Nigel Hayes lay in. But that was payback for the blown flagrant 1 call earlier. And Clark Kellogg is wrong....it doesn't matter if it was incidental or not, he hit him in the face.

drvenkman05
04-04-2015, 07:40 PM
In the words of Daniel Bryan, "YES! YES! YES!" Hopefully this will be another set of nails in that coffin....


I guess the SEC didn't prepare Kentucky enough for a Big Ten opponent.

RenoZag
04-04-2015, 07:50 PM
Seth Davis' photo is in the dictionary next to "sycophant". If his nose was any further up Calipari and krzyzewski's rear ends he could charge them for a prostate exam.

LionKid
04-04-2015, 07:53 PM
I guess the SEC didn't prepare Kentucky enough for a Big Ten opponent.

This is most likely very true. The SEC was a joke this year.

LionKid
04-04-2015, 07:56 PM
This was a year when there were a lot of really good teams competing for the National Title. My eye test tells me that Arizona, Duke, Wisconsin, and Kentucky were all better than the Louisville and UCONN squads that won the last two titles. Notre Dame and Villanova weren't far behind.

There have been a lot of seasons when a team as good as this year's Zags would have had a great shot at reaching the Final Four and a puncher's chance of winning the whole thing. Instead, we were merely a really good team fighting against one of the toughest tournament fields in recent memory.

Are you serious? Competition is way down in college basketball this year. Most of these #4#/5 seeds would have been #7/#8 seeds 5-10 years ago. Michigan St making it to the final four sums up just how good college basketball was this year. NOT VERY GOOD!

Zagceo
04-04-2015, 08:06 PM
The TBS guys are already talking about the missed shot clock violation with under 3 to go that resulted in that Nigel Hayes lay in. But that was payback for the blown flagrant 1 call earlier. And Clark Kellogg is wrong....it doesn't matter if it was incidental or not, he hit him in the face.

I think it does matter. That's exactley why Perkins didn't get a flagrant on his injury when he was clearly hit in the face.

GrizZAG
04-04-2015, 08:11 PM
+1
Yep


Seth Davis' photo is in the dictionary next to "sycophant". If his nose was any further up Calipari and krzyzewski's rear ends he could charge them for a prostate exam.

Zagceo
04-04-2015, 08:11 PM
The Wisc announcers never stopped whining about the refs the whole game.

The UK announcers one time admitted to home cooking once but the Wisc announcers couldn't stop complaining. I've never heard Matt or Huddy come close to sounding like those Wisc jokers.

ZagaZags
04-04-2015, 08:19 PM
The Wisc announcers never stopped whining about the refs the whole game.

The UK announcers one time admitted to home cooking once but the Wisc announcers couldn't stop complaining. I've never heard Matt or Huddy come close to sounding like those Wisc jokers.

If Gonzaga had made it to The Final Four, who would call the GU game?

CDC84
04-04-2015, 08:31 PM
BTW - Wisconsin could be the first national champion since the 2002 Maryland Terps to win the thing without a Burger Boy on its roster. In fact, if my history is correct, MD is the only team to have won it without a Burger Boy since the game was instituted.

LongIslandZagFan
04-04-2015, 08:38 PM
If Gonzaga had made it to The Final Four, who would call the GU game?

Sweet Lord above... a nationwide audience subjected to Heister... oof.

DixieZag
04-04-2015, 08:42 PM
You have to wonder how Wisconsin is going to respond Monday night. This was such a monster win.....not only did they take down an undefeated team, but they got revenge. It's probably for the best that there is a quick turnaround.

That is an excellent point.

CDC84
04-04-2015, 08:46 PM
BTW - fall all the talk about how bad domes are for shooting....the four teams today shot for a combined 46.8% from the field (49/207) and 36.5% (19/52) from three point land.

But this was Lucas Oil Stadium in Indy....not NRG Stadium in Houston. The Houston stadium has a bad history.

DixieZag
04-04-2015, 08:46 PM
Ever since Cowherd pointed out how much Bo Ryan complains about every single little thing about the NCAA and in particular his rant about having to play late on a Sunday night in the second game only minutes after they won, he's become someone I cheer against (except Kentucky).

I take it a step further than Collin, he is complaining about the very things that support the incredible salaries these men get. They deserve the salaries based upon market and value - I'm not complaining about that, but they owe that to the money made from the TV dollars.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-04-2015, 08:47 PM
Sweet Lord above... a nationwide audience subjected to Heister... oof.

Hahaha I just literally laughed out loud.

Zags were 5 minutes from the chance to blow out Michigan St. and then have a about a 48/52 chance to beat Wisconsin on a neutral floor for the whole ball of wax. Ahhhhhhh man.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-04-2015, 08:49 PM
Darth Calipari goes down. . .Badgers overcame a number of BS calls there in the final act.

Maybe this is Bo Ryan's year.

Can someone please explain why people don't like Calipari? Every time I see him speak, he impresses me more. Seems so genuine and passionate. I don't get it

Section 116
04-04-2015, 09:02 PM
Andrew Harrison's post game handshake and press conference is also a loser:

http://fansided.com/2015/04/05/andrew-harrison-about-frank-kaminsky-f-that-n-video/

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/bronson-koenig-harrison-twins-handshakes/258971

webspinnre
04-04-2015, 09:26 PM
I think it does matter. That's exactley why Perkins didn't get a flagrant on his injury when he was clearly hit in the face.

No, he didn't get a flagrant because they effed up the call. The reason they got rid of intentional fouls and only call flagrants was to specifically remove intent from the call. Intent is irrelevant - all that matters is the type of contact.

CDC84
04-04-2015, 09:34 PM
It takes several listens to hear what Andrew Harrison said. And what he apparently said is not pretty.

Apparently both twins skipped the handshake line, as did Cauley-Stein.

Zagceo
04-04-2015, 09:49 PM
No, he didn't get a flagrant because they effed up the call. The reason they got rid of intentional fouls and only call flagrants was to specifically remove intent from the call. Intent is irrelevant - all that matters is the type of contact.

Since your so sure why don't you find an updated rule that counters this on the NCAA site.


.A minimum of a flagrant 1 foul is no longer required when an official is responding to illegal elbow contact above the shoulders of an opponent. Now, officials also can call a common foul on any illegal elbow contact, which may result in no free throws and simply a throw-in to the offended team.


. Committee members felt the mandatory flagrant 1 penalty of the elbow rule was too harsh for all elbow situations. While the intent of the elbow rule has always been to protect players, they said, some legitimate basketball moves result in contact that is not excessive and do not deserve the harsher penalty.

Link (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2013-11-05/rule-changes-designed-reduce-physical-play-create-offensive)

I looked and couldn't find your "Intent is irrelevant" rule.

CDC84
04-04-2015, 10:20 PM
Kentucky reviewing Andrew Harrison's potential obscenity, slur

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12621890/kentucky-wildcats-reviewing-andrew-harrison-postgame-comments

webspinnre
04-04-2015, 10:43 PM
Since your so sure why don't you find an updated rule that counters this on the NCAA site.





Link (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2013-11-05/rule-changes-designed-reduce-physical-play-create-offensive)

I looked and couldn't find your "Intent is irrelevant" rule.

https://www.southern.edu/intramurals/Documents/BR15.pdf

page 50 of the document, 47 of the rulebook, Rule 4, Section 15, Article 2.c



Flagrant 1 personal foul.
A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that
is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but is not based solely
on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting; and
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in.
6. Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow which is deemed
excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2
personal foul (see Rule 4-18.7)


Part 1 is excessive contact - there is no possible way for that to not have counted as excessive contact, and there's nothing present in that definition that requires any intent.

Zagceo
04-04-2015, 11:10 PM
https://www.southern.edu/intramurals/Documents/BR15.pdf

page 50 of the document, 47 of the rulebook, Rule 4, Section 15, Article 2.c



Part 1 is excessive contact - there is no possible way for that to not have counted as excessive contact, and there's nothing present in that definition that requires any intent.

I guess I'm wrong and the broadcasters are wrong and all the refs are wrong because they seem to be making a decision on intent because we've all seen the replays where kid gets hit above the shoulders and refs look at replay and say no flagrant play on.

Agree to disagree

JAGzag
04-04-2015, 11:28 PM
Kentucky reviewing Andrew Harrison's potential obscenity, slur

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12621890/kentucky-wildcats-reviewing-andrew-harrison-postgame-comments

This doesn't bother me, really. Aside from the poor sportsmanship it displays I wouldn't call it a racist slur. Society has accepted the double standard of allowing African Americans to use this term ... almost as a term of endearment towards others of the same ethnicity. If Frank was black, it would just be poor sportsmanship since it came from a black athlete. The fact that he's white, then, makes it hard to make more of this than it is.

webspinnre
04-04-2015, 11:34 PM
I guess I'm wrong and the broadcasters are wrong and all the refs are wrong because they seem to be making a decision on intent because we've all seen the replays where kid gets hit above the shoulders and refs look at replay and say no flagrant play on.

Agree to disagree

The above the shoulders things was a change - it used to be that anything above the shoulders was an automatic flagrant - now they have leeway, but the leeway isn't on intent, but whether it's excessive.

Chicken Ball
04-05-2015, 04:41 AM
I guess I'm wrong and the broadcasters are wrong and all the refs are wrong because they seem to be making a decision on intent because we've all seen the replays where kid gets hit above the shoulders and refs look at replay and say no flagrant play on.

Yep.

wiszag
04-05-2015, 06:56 AM
I like Cal but his players showed the exact same immaturity and lack of class I'd expect from one and done AAU kids with a sense of entitlement. Kentucky should be embarrassed but I know they won't be.

Ekrub
04-05-2015, 07:41 AM
Eh, hope nothing comes of the Harrison twin making a poor decision. Heat of the moment stuff. Shoving cameras in athlete's faces (Richard Sherman anyone?) can sometimes lead to some raw emotion.

DixieZag
04-05-2015, 07:50 AM
I like Cal but his players showed the exact same immaturity and lack of class I'd expect from one and done AAU kids with a sense of entitlement. Kentucky should be embarrassed but I know they won't be.

I don't like Cal because he tends to show a sense of entitlement and lack of class I'd expect from a coach of AAU one and done kids.

He says all the right things on camera, but it is almost impossible to not get a sense that he is going through the script and that behind the scenes he is giving an example of that same sort of attitude we've seen from players. There have been lots of good one and done players over the years from other schools where the consensus was that part of the reason they were "one and done" was due to maturity and a healthy sense of where they fit in the world.


:)

SwainZag
04-05-2015, 08:32 AM
Eh, hope nothing comes of the Harrison twin making a poor decision. Heat of the moment stuff. Shoving cameras in athlete's faces (Richard Sherman anyone?) can sometimes lead to some raw emotion.

Sherman's comment came mere moments after a play that would take them to the Super Bowl. Harrison's comment came a half hour after the game was over while he was sitting in a press conference in front of hundreds of media, there is a much, much bigger difference. It was far beyond heat of the moment.

SwainZag
04-05-2015, 08:37 AM
Are you serious? Competition is way down in college basketball this year. Most of these #4#/5 seeds would have been #7/#8 seeds 5-10 years ago. Michigan St making it to the final four sums up just how good college basketball was this year. NOT VERY GOOD!

The college hoops scene this year was very top heavy. Sure the middling seeds, #4-5 might be down, but the Top 7-8 teams in the country were very, very strong this year. You could also say that #3 #1 seed making the Final 4 shows the strength of this year's competition.

TexasZagFan
04-05-2015, 08:53 AM
The above the shoulders things was a change - it used to be that anything above the shoulders was an automatic flagrant - now they have leeway, but the leeway isn't on intent, but whether it's excessive.

Excessive? lol

Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson with less.

Ekrub
04-05-2015, 09:34 AM
Sherman's comment came mere moments after a play that would take them to the Super Bowl. Harrison's comment came a half hour after the game was over while he was sitting in a press conference in front of hundreds of media, there is a much, much bigger difference. It was far beyond heat of the moment.

Half an hour is not adequate time to cool down after playing the most important game in your life. Dude made a mistake saying it, but the way people react is far more childish in my opinion. 18-22 year old amateur athletes... I don't know... I guess I don't believe it says a whole lot about his "class" or him as a person.

Zagceo
04-05-2015, 10:06 AM
The above the shoulders things was a change - it used to be that anything above the shoulders was an automatic flagrant - now they have leeway, but the leeway isn't on intent, but whether it's excessive.


Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but is not based solely on the severity of the act.
Examples include, but are not limited to:
1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player,specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;

To determine and/or unnecessary Refs might look at intent……..rules don't preclude one from factoring in intent.

MDABE80
04-05-2015, 10:36 AM
Excessive? lol

Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson with less.

He did??? Geeeeeeeeeeeez. when???

LongIslandZagFan
04-05-2015, 10:38 AM
I guess I'm wrong and the broadcasters are wrong and all the refs are wrong because they seem to be making a decision on intent because we've all seen the replays where kid gets hit above the shoulders and refs look at replay and say no flagrant play on.

Agree to disagree

Just because he got away with smacking the guy in the face doesn't mean it WASN'T against the rules. Oh, and by the way... all three announcers were quite adamant in saying it was absolutely the WRONG call.

LongIslandZagFan
04-05-2015, 10:39 AM
To determine and/or unnecessary Refs might look at intent……..rules don't preclude one from factoring in intent.

Every replay I have seen of it... looks to me like there was no reason to make a move with his hand as he did unless it was to make contact with the player's face.

webspinnre
04-05-2015, 10:58 AM
To determine and/or unnecessary Refs might look at intent……..rules don't preclude one from factoring in intent.

The first example listed says "causing excessive contact with an opponent". The contact to Perkins was excessive, therefore it was a flagrant. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, if it was excessive, it's a flagrant. All the broadcasters agreed it was at LEAST a flagrant 1. The refs, to use the immortal words of Jim Joyce, "kicked the sh!t" out of the call.

DixieZag
04-05-2015, 11:38 AM
The first example listed says "causing excessive contact with an opponent". The contact to Perkins was excessive, therefore it was a flagrant. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, if it was excessive, it's a flagrant. All the broadcasters agreed it was at LEAST a flagrant 1. The refs, to use the immortal words of Jim Joyce, "kicked the sh!t" out of the call.

This.

And now, with the availability of courtside instant replay, just amazing. I think it would be interesting to have heard their conversation in making the determination;

"It appears he tried to draw the charge with his shin blocking the Gonzaga guy's jaw - just wasn't set in time. The young man appears conscious, lets go."

Zagceo
04-05-2015, 11:50 AM
Just because he got away with smacking the guy in the face doesn't mean it WASN'T against the rules. Oh, and by the way... all three announcers were quite adamant in saying it was absolutely the WRONG call.

I'm not saying a call was right or wrong……my point is how the Refs are using the rules to justify their decisions …..rightly or wrongly.

This started off with web saying all contact above the shoulders was a flagrant foul excessive or not.

He has posted the rule was changed and thats no longer the case. That was my main point.

CDC84
04-05-2015, 12:05 PM
It wasn't just that Andrew made the comment that he did (which he has apologized for via twitter). It's that he, his brother, WCS and others just bailed to the locker room immediately after the game. Didn't even bother with the handshake line. That incident ended up getting driven underground when Andrew said what he said at the mic. Normally people would run wild with something like that because it involved more players, and because it involved Kentucky........

webspinnre
04-05-2015, 12:25 PM
I'm not saying a call was right or wrong……my point is how the Refs are using the rules to justify their decisions …..rightly or wrongly.

This started off with web saying all contact above the shoulders was a flagrant foul excessive or not.

He has posted the rule was changed and thats no longer the case. That was my main point.

What? I never said that all contact above the shoulders was flagrant. I said that intention was irrelevant.