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willandi
04-01-2015, 06:30 PM
An associate and I were at work, discussing the game (what a surprise) and the topic of the out of bounds play, where Karno was laying down, out of bounds, and the Duke player threw the ball off of him.

Shouldn't Karno have been considered the same as the floor? He clearly had established being OB. I don't know the answer to this.

Thanks, Will

thegloriousgoateeofKP
04-01-2015, 07:18 PM
Fascinating. I don't know the answer...but if you can establish yourself as being "in bounds," stands to reason you can be established as "out of bounds" too.

gonzagafan62
04-01-2015, 07:18 PM
No the rule states that karnowski is still an active player on the play. I wish I could find this specifically in the rules, but the play was called correctly.

gonzagafan62
04-01-2015, 07:22 PM
Fascinating. I don't know the answer...but if you can establish yourself as being "in bounds," stands to reason you can be established as "out of bounds" too.

That's true too. And it has been noted in the rules that if a player is injured play does stop after the opposing team has possession of the ball and advanced the ball up the court ... Play was never advanced nor was karnowski injured (just exhausted) ..... So I would expect that karnowski was still a legal person on the play.

Zagineer
04-01-2015, 07:36 PM
NCAA Men's Basketball 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 Rules. Rule 7, Out of Bounds and the Thow-in, Article 1 and Article 2, page 72 of 140.

RULE 7
Out of Bounds and
the Throw-in
Section 1. Out of Bounds—Player, Ball
Art. 1. A player shall be out of bounds when he touches the floor or any object
other than a person on or outside a boundary line. An airborne player’s status shall
be where he was last in contact with the floor.
Art. 2. The ball shall be out of bounds when it touches a player who is out of
bounds, any other person, the floor or any object on or outside a boundary, the
supports or back of the backboard, or the ceiling or overhead equipment.

Unfortunately, the out of bounds player was a Zag and the Duke player was still in bounds per Article 1.

willandi
04-01-2015, 07:46 PM
Thanks! I'll pass that along! I guess, according to that, if he had landed on Karno, then thrown the ball at Karno, before he touched the floor, it would have been the same. Weird!

Will

Zagineer
04-01-2015, 08:00 PM
That's the way I read Article 1 also, Will. (Kind of like a runner with the ball in football and rolls over a defender on the ground without his knees, hands or elbows touching the ground and continues to run.) And if he landed on Karno and threw the ball in-bounds, it would have remained to be a live ball. Really weird. I can picture the Duke player standing on Karno's back, looking for another Duke player to pass it to. To take it one step further,... Article 1 says, "...other than a person...". It doesn't say, "... other than a player...". Imagine if the Duke player landed on the back of a cheer leader and proceeded to throw the ball to an in-bounds Duke player. Now that would be really, really weird!

If anyone is interested, the link below takes you to the NCAA Men's Basketball 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 Rules. You can order a hard copy for around $8, or download a pdf and print it out yourself for free. I chose the later option. ;) (There are also free options for ePub and Mobi.)

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4312-2013-14-and-2014-15-mens-basketball-rules.aspx

.

hondo
04-01-2015, 08:34 PM
The number one rule in college basketball is that all rules, regardless of wording, shall always be interpreted for the benefit of Duke. This rule is constant and shall never vary.

MTZag03
04-01-2015, 08:40 PM
Regardless of legality I have always found that move to be the singular biggest d**che move in all of basketball at every level, especially including non-competitive gym level. They need to amend the rule. I can't think of an example of someone throwing it off of someone else where I thought, "yeah, that makes sense. That's some good basketball there."

sittingon50
04-01-2015, 08:53 PM
Regardless of legality I have always found that move to be the singular biggest d**che move in all of basketball at every level, especially including non-competitive gym level. They need to amend the rule. I can't think of an example of someone throwing it off of someone else where I thought, "yeah, that makes sense. That's some good basketball there."

Disagree with you on that one, 03. Thought the kid made a terrific play. Freshman + split second = heady.

IowaSERE
04-02-2015, 07:53 AM
What about the play where a Duke player was fouled on a drive while in the act of shooting, and the ball slipped out of his hands and he batted it into the hoop and it counted. How is that a made shot? Once the ball leaves his hands on the foul it can't be redirected into the basket can it?

TheGonzagaFactor
04-02-2015, 09:15 AM
The only illegal thing on that play was the Duke player fouling Karno on the loose ball. That should have been called, but it was a nice play seeing as it (of course) wasn't.

Hoopaholic
04-02-2015, 09:55 AM
What about the play where a Duke player was fouled on a drive while in the act of shooting, and the ball slipped out of his hands and he batted it into the hoop and it counted. How is that a made shot? Once the ball leaves his hands on the foul it can't be redirected into the basket can it?

correct that was a poor call and basket should have been waived off and two shots awarded

Hoopaholic
04-02-2015, 09:55 AM
Disagree with you on that one, 03. Thought the kid made a terrific play. Freshman + split second = heady.

agree heady play

JJsJumpshot
04-02-2015, 05:57 PM
The number one rule in college basketball is that all rules, regardless of wording, shall always be interpreted for the benefit of Duke. This rule is constant and shall never vary.

This is correct. It's one big conspiracy.

ZagaZags
04-02-2015, 06:04 PM
This is correct. It's one big conspiracy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1XgFsitnQw&feature=player_detailpage

JJsJumpshot
04-02-2015, 06:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1XgFsitnQw&feature=player_detailpage

Never left. Gonzaga boards are my new favorite case study.

"It's over, go home" is hilarious in context though.

gonzagafan62
04-02-2015, 06:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1XgFsitnQw&feature=player_detailpage

That's awesome zaga. It's one of my favorite movies. Brings back my childhood days.