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gonzagafan62
04-01-2015, 06:24 AM
Jazz gave me this idea.....

So you have 13 open schollies.... You can pick 13 guys in their prime and you wanna field the best Gonzaga Team possible using only past or present Gonzaga players, who would you go with?

jazzdelmar
04-01-2015, 06:28 AM
Thx for the props but 13 is heavy lifting. Maybe starters or top 8 at most.

PG: DD
SG: Richie
SF: Ammo
PF: Casey
C: KO

Subs: Matt S, Ronny, Harris.....holding spots for KW and the B.

gonzagafan62
04-01-2015, 06:31 AM
Thx for the props but 13 is heavy lifting. Maybe starters or top 8 at most.

PG: DD
SG: Richie
SF: Ammo
PF: Casey
C: KO

Do it however you want. For me personally, its hard to even cut it down to 13.

1. Frank Burgess
2. John Stockton
3. Dan Dickau
4. Blake Stepp
5. Matt Santangelo
6. Adam Morrison
7. Ronny Turiaf
8. Casey Calvary
9. Jim McPhee
10. Jerry Vermillion
11. Kevin Pangos
12. Kelly Olynyk
13. Jean Claude Lefebvre

Guys that just miss: JP Batista, Richie Frahm, Robert Sacre, Elias Harris, Jeff Brown, Gary Lechman, Matt Bouldin, Jeremy Pargo

DixieZag
04-01-2015, 06:33 AM
Thx for the props but 13 is heavy lifting. Maybe starters or top 8 at most.

PG: DD
SG: Richie
SF: Ammo
PF: Casey
C: KO

That is a great list. If one quibbles it sounds like an insult to the player, but, without insulting anyone, I think Sabonis might eclipse Casey in that list - no one talked about Casey as a lottery pick and Casey didn't explode onto the scene as much as Sabonis.

I think Bouldin would have to be considered at the SG.

stevet75
04-01-2015, 02:00 PM
Do it however you want. For me personally, its hard to even cut it down to 13.

1. Frank Burgess
2. John Stockton
3. Dan Dickau
4. Blake Stepp
5. Matt Santangelo
6. Adam Morrison
7. Ronny Turiaf
8. Casey Calvary
9. Jim McPhee
10. Jerry Vermillion
11. Kevin Pangos
12. Kelly Olynyk
13. Jean Claude Lefebvre

Guys that just miss: JP Batista, Richie Frahm, Robert Sacre, Elias Harris, Jeff Brown, Gary Lechman, Matt Bouldin, Jeremy Pargo

I might change the order a bit, but I like your list.

BoZarth
04-01-2015, 02:03 PM
You need role players and my team has them

My team includes guys that provide some versatility and I hope would accept their roles. Still PT would be hard to find with this bunch and the rotation would have to be kept at about 10.

PG’s John Stockton, Dan Dickau
SG’s Richie Frahm, Blake Stepp , Jim McPhee
SF Adam Morrison, Errol Knight, David Pendergraft
BIGS: Kelly Olynyk, Casey Calvary, Jeff Brown, Ronny Turiaf, Przemek Karnowski

I'd start:

PG: Stockton
SG: Richie (more athletic than the other options)
SF: Erroll Knight (I need someone to play defense on the opponents best backcourt player)
PF: Kelly Olynyk
C: Ronny Turiaf

Instant offense off the bench with Ammo. With so much talent I'd have to consider guys like Mark Spink, Mike Hart and even Robert Sacre as it would be difficult to find minutes for McPhee and Brown.

Go Zags!!!!

Bogozags
04-01-2015, 02:42 PM
These are my 13:

PG’s John Stockton, Dan Dickau
SG’s Richie Frahm, Blake Stepp
SF Frank Burgess, Adam Morrison, Byron Wesley, Errol Knight
PF Kelly Olynyk, Casey Calvary
C Ronny Turiaf, Przemek Karnowski, Robert Sacre


Byron Wesley is added as he is an excellent rebounder and inside scorer.

Dickau43
04-01-2015, 04:32 PM
If it's a 13 man team there's zero chance I'm leaving off Mike Hart.

gonzagafan62
04-01-2015, 04:37 PM
If it's a 13 man team there's zero chance I'm leaving off Mike Hart.

I could definitely justify putting on any of the key role players on the team.... Mike hart was loved so much and worked so hard just to earn his role. I'm not sure we've seen such a player work so hard to get from zero to fan favorite in my life

ZagaZags
04-02-2015, 12:13 AM
In no particular order.

1) Dan Dickau.
2) Matt Santangelo.
3) Adam Morrison.
4) Casey Calvary.
5) Ronny Turiaf.
6) Kevin Pangos.
7) Jim McPhee.
8) Blake Stepp.
9) Kelly Olynyk.
10) Elias Harris.
11) Richie Frahm.
12) Jeff Brown.
13) John Stockton.

Walk-on, Mike Hart.

* I left off any current Zags due to the fact their career isn't over yet.

mgadfly
04-02-2015, 01:27 AM
I like where some are going with roll players. I'm hoping I could get some of these guys to play rolls.

I also think the best TEAM isn't made up of the guys who scored the most points. Does Dickau and Morrison get on my best team when they played such horrible offense, I'm not sure... I also want length, athleticism, strength, energy, and defense. But most of all, I'd want to be able to spread a tea out and shoot from wherever.

And one other rule - only guys since I moved to Spokane in 1995. Before that I didn't watch them so I'm not going to pick them for my team.

PG: Stepp: His junior season was as dominant of year as we've had by a guard. He's big and will cause mismatches, shot 40% from range, was an incredible passer and had more steals and played better defense than we give him credit for. So junior season Stepp takes the PG spot.
Reserve(s): Raivio (elite shooter .42% three points 93% FT) was a pesky defender, 6'3" (but skinny), who could close out games because other teams couldn't foul him. He had an attitude, which I liked. Pangos - basically Dickau except more willing to take a roll player spot and give up opportunities to win and played much better defense.

SG: Richie Frahm: 6'5" player who played solid to good defense but also hit 42% of his threes. He averaged 17 p, 4.4 r, and 2.5 assists as a senior. Big guards who can defend and rebound are hard to come by, especially ones that could shoot like him.
Reserve: Matt Bouldin is another big guard who played a lot like Stepp. He didn't have a huge single season like Blake, but he was solid all four years, shot well enough from 3 (38%), rebounded, and played passing lanes better than guys give him credit now. The other thing is he was a good athlete (not quite like his dad) with great size. I also think he had the right attitude to accept a role player spot on an all-star team.

SF: Micah Downs - I know my favorite player is Adam Morrison, and I'd take him as the "star" for most any team I put together, but in this case I'm looking for defense, a guy that will accept a lesser role, but who can stretch the defense with shooting. The 6'8" Downs shot nearly 40% for his career from 3 point range, was a great athlete who could defend, was willing to bang inside at the PF spot when needed, and could even block some shots.
Reserve: Austin Daye - He may end up a club house cancer not satisfied with his role, but Daye was an incredible shot blocker with good size and a ton of potential. He was an inefficient scorer, but shot better than 42% from three point range. If I could get him to come in, block some shots, and limit his game to taking open threes, he'd be a great asset.

PF: Calvary - I'm not sure if we really appreciate just how great he was. He averaged 19 p and 6.7 rebounds his senior season, blocked a ton of shots and had good steal numbers. As far as bigs go, he was an elite defender who protected the rim. On offense he shot 41% from three point range for his career forcing other teams to respect him all over the court. His athleticism allowed him to be a plus rebounder. The one knock on him is he was a horrible free throw shooter so he'd probably end up on the bench with me at the end of some games.
Reserve: Kyle Wiltjer - I'm breaking my rule about defense, but Wiltjer and his incredible shooting would give this team another dimension if they wanted to put 5 guys on the floor that could spread the opposition. I'd have to hide him on defense, but I'm willing to use a scholarship on his offense.

C: Turiaf - The energizer bunny was top-10 in fouls drawn each of his seasons and converted the free throws at a 72% clip. He blocked shots and rebounded and gave other teams' bigs fits with his energy. He didn't take outside shots but his defense and close in scoring make up for it.
Reserve: Sabonis - If he doesn't improve a lick, he'll still be the best rebounder we've had since Ken Pomeroy began tracking individual player stats 13 years ago. He should develop into a Turiaf like player with his length and athleticism.

That's 11 guys and I still have Olynyk, Morrison, Violette, Dickau, and Santangelo on the board. I think I'd go:

Olynyk - you can't have too much size and he'd push the rest of my team to be better.
Bankhead - It is nearly impossible not to put Violette with his blocked shots and rebounding on here or Santangelo with his athleticism, defense, and passing, but the 13th scholarship has to go to a guy that fill a role. No one was better at that than Bankhead who averaged only 5.5 points his senior season while shooting an incredible 55% from three point range. For his career he was a better than 45% shooter from range. In a close game, if we need a shooter, in goes Bankhead.

Walkon: This really comes down to Hart or Stockton. I think I'd take Hart because of his ability to guard bigger players and we already have Raivio (a Stockton like player) on the roster. Stockton would get the nod if I was just picking the best walk-on, but we have a bigger need at SF.

1. Stepp - Raivio - Pangos
2. Frahm - Bouldin
3. Downs - Daye - Hart (walk-on)
4. Calvary - Wiltjer
5. Turiaf - Sabonis - Olynyk

Just missing (in order): Violette, Santangelo, Morrison, Dickau, Hendrix, Harris, Batista, Heytvelt, Pendergraft, Pargo

ZagaZags
04-02-2015, 01:42 AM
I like where some are going with roll players. I'm hoping I could get some of these guys to play rolls.

I also think the best TEAM isn't made up of the guys who scored the most points. Does Dickau and Morrison get on my best team when they played such horrible offense, I'm not sure... I also want length, athleticism, strength, energy, and defense. But most of all, I'd want to be able to spread a tea out and shoot from wherever.

And one other rule - only guys since I moved to Spokane in 1995. Before that I didn't watch them so I'm not going to pick them for my team.

PG: Stepp: His junior season was as dominant of year as we've had by a guard. He's big and will cause mismatches, shot 40% from range, was an incredible passer and had more steals and played better defense than we give him credit for. So junior season Stepp takes the PG spot.
Reserve(s): Raivio (elite shooter .42% three points 93% FT) was a pesky defender, 6'3" (but skinny), who could close out games because other teams couldn't foul him. He had an attitude, which I liked. Pangos - basically Dickau except more willing to take a roll player spot and give up opportunities to win and played much better defense.

SG: Richie Frahm: 6'5" player who played solid to good defense but also hit 42% of his threes. He averaged 17 p, 4.4 r, and 2.5 assists as a senior. Big guards who can defend and rebound are hard to come by, especially ones that could shoot like him.
Reserve: Matt Bouldin is another big guard who played a lot like Stepp. He didn't have a huge single season like Blake, but he was solid all four years, shot well enough from 3 (38%), rebounded, and played passing lanes better than guys give him credit now. The other thing is he was a good athlete (not quite like his dad) with great size. I also think he had the right attitude to accept a role player spot on an all-star team.

SF: Micah Downs - I know my favorite player is Adam Morrison, and I'd take him as the "star" for most any team I put together, but in this case I'm looking for defense, a guy that will accept a lesser role, but who can stretch the defense with shooting. The 6'8" Downs shot nearly 40% for his career from 3 point range, was a great athlete who could defend, was willing to bang inside at the PF spot when needed, and could even block some shots.
Reserve: Austin Daye - He may end up a club house cancer not satisfied with his role, but Daye was an incredible shot blocker with good size and a ton of potential. He was an inefficient scorer, but shot better than 42% from three point range. If I could get him to come in, block some shots, and limit his game to taking open threes, he'd be a great asset.

PF: Calvary - I'm not sure if we really appreciate just how great he was. He averaged 19 p and 6.7 rebounds his senior season, blocked a ton of shots and had good steal numbers. As far as bigs go, he was an elite defender who protected the rim. On offense he shot 41% from three point range for his career forcing other teams to respect him all over the court. His athleticism allowed him to be a plus rebounder. The one knock on him is he was a horrible free throw shooter so he'd probably end up on the bench with me at the end of some games.
Reserve: Kyle Wiltjer - I'm breaking my rule about defense, but Wiltjer and his incredible shooting would give this team another dimension if they wanted to put 5 guys on the floor that could spread the opposition. I'd have to hide him on defense, but I'm willing to use a scholarship on his offense.

C: Turiaf - The energizer bunny was top-10 in fouls drawn each of his seasons and converted the free throws at a 72% clip. He blocked shots and rebounded and gave other teams' bigs fits with his energy. He didn't take outside shots but his defense and close in scoring make up for it.
Reserve: Sabonis - If he doesn't improve a lick, he'll still be the best rebounder we've had since Ken Pomeroy began tracking individual player stats 13 years ago. He should develop into a Turiaf like player with his length and athleticism.

That's 11 guys and I still have Olynyk, Morrison, Violette, Dickau, and Santangelo on the board. I think I'd go:

Olynyk - you can't have too much size and he'd push the rest of my team to be better.
Bankhead - It is nearly impossible not to put Violette with his blocked shots and rebounding on here or Santangelo with his athleticism, defense, and passing, but the 13th scholarship has to go to a guy that fill a role. No one was better at that than Bankhead who averaged only 5.5 points his senior season while shooting an incredible 55% from three point range. For his career he was a better than 45% shooter from range. In a close game, if we need a shooter, in goes Bankhead.

Walkon: This really comes down to Hart or Stockton. I think I'd take Hart because of his ability to guard bigger players and we already have Raivio (a Stockton like player) on the roster. Stockton would get the nod if I was just picking the best walk-on, but we have a bigger need at SF.

1. Stepp - Raivio - Pangos
2. Frahm - Bouldin
3. Downs - Daye - Hart (walk-on)
4. Calvary - Wiltjer
5. Turiaf - Sabonis - Olynyk

Just missing (in order): Violette, Santangelo, Morrison, Dickau, Hendrix, Harris, Batista, Heytvelt, Pendergraft, Pargo

Bakari Hendrix was a beast.

Birddog
04-02-2015, 05:09 AM
The list should have started by saying in addition to
Vermillion
Burgess
Stockton what 10 players would you add?

You have to have the AA's
Dickau
Morrison
Olynyk

Then in no particular order
Stepp
Calvary
Sacre
Pangos
That's my 13 and to that I'd add
Spink = Walkon
Very tough to leave off some guys like Hendrix, Suter, Lechman,Bouldin,Frahm, Violette, Batista and so on

gonzagafan62
04-02-2015, 07:12 AM
Bakari Hendrix was a beast.

Yes he was. Even played in Euorpe till 2009 IIRC. He was a great player and was WCC player of the year in 1998 I believe.

DixieZag
04-02-2015, 09:16 AM
The list should have started by saying in addition to
Vermillion
Burgess
Stockton what 10 players would you add?

You have to have the AA's
Dickau
Morrison
Olynyk

Then in no particular order
Stepp
Calvary
Sacre
Pangos
That's my 13 and to that I'd add
Spink = Walkon
Very tough to leave off some guys like Hendrix, Suter, Lechman,Bouldin,Frahm, Violette, Batista and so on

Well, some of us never saw the top three play, so hard for us to work in where they are, which is why it is so valuable to hear from those that did. I love those stories.

I know he just has one year under him, but I'm amazed more people aren't putting Sabonis on the team. I think he might challenge for All-American and might end up one of the top 3 we've ever had. I think he's that good.

gonzagafan62
04-02-2015, 09:29 AM
Well, some of us never saw the top three play, so hard for us to work in where they are, which is why it is so valuable to hear from those that did. I love those stories.

I know he just has one year under him, but I'm amazed more people aren't putting Sabonis on the team. I think he might challenge for All-American and might end up one of the top 3 we've ever had. I think he's that good.

I definitely had to think about Sabonis, Dix.

Its an interesting case to be made, and I don't think many could argue if you put him on your team.

I honestly never saw the top 3 play. But hearing stories from the old time Zags like GZ, Angelo, etc, etc. I have fallen in love with the lore those three men brought to the team. Hearing what they did in the old gymnasium is absolutely priceless.

Jerry Vermillion has the record of most career rebounds. He was a rebounding machine. I have heard the record is VERY legit. Just as legit as Wilt Chamberlains 100 points in one game. If you take 600 rebounds off his total, he still almost beats out Elias Harris for most rebounds by almost 100 boards. That's special. When he left, he was second all time in Gonzaga history in scoring (without a 3 point line)

Frank was a scoring machine without the three point line. #1 scorer in GU history. Ive heard he could shoot 30ft + with dangerous accuracy, and was a problem for anyone to cover. Also made the all American team on several major endorsers in 1960, and 1961 and was honorable mention by the AP in 1960.

And I am sure you have heard the stories on Stockton by now.

titopoet
04-02-2015, 10:06 AM
A couple of players I would have but not listed starting Bell is the best on ball defender in recent history (Stockton was probably the best there two). But he has to be part of the team at this point.

PG. John Stockton, DD, Pangos,
Sg Bell, Stepp, Matt Bouldin
SF Morrison, Harris, Hart
PF Turiaf, Wiltjer,
C Olynyk, Karno

I know I have a lot from the current team, but they are the most accomplished team in GU history (most wins and an EE) Many of them were also on the first 30 game winner that earn the first ever number 1 ranking.

Mr Vulture
04-02-2015, 10:24 AM
For me, it's hard to say much about Frank Burgess, Jim McPhee, and Jerry Vermillion as they were all before my time. My understanding is that the three were fantastic players but I'm going to just go with players I know much more about over the last 20yrs or so...

Guards - John Stockton, Dan Dickau, Matt Santangelo, Blake Stepp, Richie Frahm
Forwards - Adam Morrison, Casey Cavalry, JP Batista, Jeff Brown, Bakari Hendrix
Centers - Kelly Olynyk, Ronny Turiaf, Robert Sacre

Once and Future Zag
04-02-2015, 02:14 PM
The list should have started by saying in addition to
Vermillion
Burgess
Stockton what 10 players would you add?

You have to have the AA's
Dickau
Morrison
Olynyk

Then in no particular order
Stepp
Calvary
Sacre
Pangos
That's my 13 and to that I'd add
Spink = Walkon
Very tough to leave off some guys like Hendrix, Suter, Lechman,Bouldin,Frahm, Violette, Batista and so on

+1, but since we typically have 2 walk-ons that are suited up to play, I'd add Hart as the other one.

Birddog
04-02-2015, 02:28 PM
+1, but since we typically have 2 walk-ons that are suited up to play, I'd add Hart as the other one.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Bankhead as a walk on team member, he deserves mention too.

MDABE80
04-02-2015, 02:32 PM
Startin five------------->Stockton, Matt Santangelo, Adam, Vermillion and Casey.

MickMick
04-02-2015, 02:56 PM
Do it however you want. For me personally, its hard to even cut it down to 13.

1. Frank Burgess
2. John Stockton
3. Dan Dickau
4. Blake Stepp
5. Matt Santangelo
6. Adam Morrison
7. Ronny Turiaf
8. Casey Calvary
9. Jim McPhee
10. Jerry Vermillion
11. Kevin Pangos
12. Kelly Olynyk
13. Jean Claude Lefebvre

Guys that just miss: JP Batista, Richie Frahm, Robert Sacre, Elias Harris, Jeff Brown, Gary Lechman, Matt Bouldin, Jeremy Pargo

I don't have to post anything. This post covers it to a tee for me. Every last word is spot on.

Angelo Roncalli
04-02-2015, 03:09 PM
One name that deserves some consideration is Bill Dunlap. He was perhaps the best JC transfer to play for GU. He was Gonzaga's first AP honorable mention all-american and first team all-wcc.

http://www.gozags.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=26400&ATCLID=205173203

gonzagafan62
04-02-2015, 03:15 PM
One name that deserves some consideration is Bill Dunlap. He was perhaps the best JC transfer to play for GU. He was Gonzaga's first AP honorable mention all-american and first team all-wcc.

http://www.gozags.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=26400&ATCLID=205173203

Yup. I did consider him, suter, quigg, and a few others. Thanks for mentioning Dunlap. He was a good player too.

demian
04-02-2015, 09:38 PM
Jazz gave me this idea.....

So you have 13 open schollies.... You can pick 13 guys in their prime and you wanna field the best Gonzaga Team possible using only past or present Gonzaga players, who would you go with?

1. Dick Walter
2. Morrison
3. Casey Cavalry
4. Errol Knight
5. Stepp
6. Pargo
7. Turiaf
8. Batista
9. Elias Harris
10. Steven Gray
11. Gary Bell
12. Quinton Hall (I only saw him play for two weekends so a small sample size but I think he would have been higher on my list if I had seen more games of him).
13.olynyk

Mojo13
04-03-2015, 12:42 PM
I always chuckle a bit when the old dogs romanticize about the "legends" from ages past.
The way athletes have evolved in strength, speed, athleticism and skill in the last few decades, for any of these lists to have credibility you should scrap anyone who played in the 50s, 60s and think hard about the 70's and 80's. I know it can never be proven but I'd wager elite players from 50 years past couldn’t hold a candle to today's modern athlete. I am sure there are a few rare exceptions but you can go ahead and take Burgess and I'll be fine taking Gary Bell and we can go from there.

Flame way. And not to single out Gary Bell but think about him playing against a bunch of pasty 5’10 schmucks in 1958.

Zagceo
04-03-2015, 12:50 PM
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/Screen%20Shot%202015-04-01%20at%209.29.40%20AM_zpsclq2uiot.png

Once and Future Zag
04-03-2015, 12:55 PM
One name that deserves some consideration is Bill Dunlap. He was perhaps the best JC transfer to play for GU. He was Gonzaga's first AP honorable mention all-american and first team all-wcc.

http://www.gozags.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=26400&ATCLID=205173203

Burgess was AP 2nd team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_NCAA_Men%27s_Basketball_All-Americans) back in '61

Mojo13
04-03-2015, 12:58 PM
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/Screen%20Shot%202015-04-01%20at%209.29.40%20AM_zpsclq2uiot.png

If you are trying to prove my point, thank you.
I am not sure 6'9, 215 pound Bill Russell would get off the bench in today's NBA (or even make the NBA) then take a moment and consider just how dominant he was in the 50s/60s.

Angelo Roncalli
04-03-2015, 12:59 PM
Burgess was AP 2nd team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_NCAA_Men%27s_Basketball_All-Americans) back in '61


I know Burgess was 2nd team. My statement was correct. Bill Dunlap was GU's first AP honorable mention AA.

Once and Future Zag
04-03-2015, 01:01 PM
I know Burgess was 2nd team. My statement was correct. Bill Dunlap was GU's first AP honorable mention AA.

Ah, I assumed you meant honorable mention or better.

Angelo Roncalli
04-03-2015, 01:12 PM
1. Dick Walter
2. Morrison
3. Casey Cavalry
4. Errol Knight
5. Stepp
6. Pargo
7. Turiaf
8. Batista
9. Elias Harris
10. Steven Gray
11. Gary Bell
12. Quinton Hall (I only saw him play for two weekends so a small sample size but I think he would have been higher on my list if I had seen more games of him).
13.olynyk

LMAO. Nice one, Demian. Looks like you're trying to increase the size of your inheritance.

Birddog
04-03-2015, 01:24 PM
I always chuckle a bit when the old dogs romanticize about the "legends" from ages past.
The way athletes have evolved in strength, speed, athleticism and skill in the last few decades, for any of these lists to have credibility you should scrap anyone who played in the 50s, 60s and think hard about the 70's and 80's. I know it can never be proven but I'd wager elite players from 50 years past couldn’t hold a candle to today's modern athlete. I am sure there are a few rare exceptions but you can go ahead and take Burgess and I'll be fine taking Gary Bell and we can go from there.

Flame way. And not to single out Gary Bell but think about him playing against a bunch of pasty 5’10 schmucks in 1958.

So we should simply discount them and their achievements? How many more years before MJ is not relevant? JMO, but I considered the players for their era. One name that popped up a couple of times was Jean Claude Lefevre. He was a unique player and a benchmark recruit but IMO he was much better at being really huge than he was at basketball. Regarding 5'10" pasty schmucks, what do you say Reborn?

gonzagafan62
04-03-2015, 01:32 PM
I always chuckle a bit when the old dogs romanticize about the "legends" from ages past.
The way athletes have evolved in strength, speed, athleticism and skill in the last few decades, for any of these lists to have credibility you should scrap anyone who played in the 50s, 60s and think hard about the 70's and 80's. I know it can never be proven but I'd wager elite players from 50 years past couldn’t hold a candle to today's modern athlete. I am sure there are a few rare exceptions but you can go ahead and take Burgess and I'll be fine taking Gary Bell and we can go from there.

Flame way. And not to single out Gary Bell but think about him playing against a bunch of pasty 5’10 schmucks in 1958.

I do agree with your sentiment, but you cant throw away their accomplishments either. I think if you give these players the resources they have now and play in today's game they would be just as good. But you have to give them the resources. It's like saying wilt chamberlain couldn't play in today's game ... The old guys always change the game. The game changes a lot. Now the scientific enhancements we hae seen through the years helping with body development an player development, give these guys that and they would be there still. I don't think you can demean their abilities and strengths just because the timeframe they were involved in... They are what made GU what we are today as well.

zagfan24
04-03-2015, 01:36 PM
I always chuckle a bit when the old dogs romanticize about the "legends" from ages past.
The way athletes have evolved in strength, speed, athleticism and skill in the last few decades, for any of these lists to have credibility you should scrap anyone who played in the 50s, 60s and think hard about the 70's and 80's. I know it can never be proven but I'd wager elite players from 50 years past couldn’t hold a candle to today's modern athlete. I am sure there are a few rare exceptions but you can go ahead and take Burgess and I'll be fine taking Gary Bell and we can go from there.

Flame way. And not to single out Gary Bell but think about him playing against a bunch of pasty 5’10 schmucks in 1958.

It's apples and oranges. The basketball skill level of players from years past was just as high, IMO, if not higher in some instances. What has changed are some of the physical attributes -- but modern players have access to facilities, nutrition, year-round coaching/gym availability, etc that was simply not there 40 or 50 years ago.

jazzdelmar
04-03-2015, 02:00 PM
John Havlicek would be a great NBA player TODAY.

Angelo Roncalli
04-03-2015, 02:11 PM
Honeycomb would be a star if he played in the NBA today. He averaged a double double during his NBA career. Watch some of the video. He was doing Dr. J stuff before Dr. J. He was a great defensive player and a spectacular leaper.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkzRjMC1ZpI

Then there's the story of the Gus Johnson nail at the Corner Club in Moscow

http://www.cornerclubmoscow.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2

mgadfly
04-03-2015, 02:19 PM
We know the old timers couldn't shoot, just look at the free throw percentages.

That said, there are a lot more people playing basketball now. There are a lot more people now, and the game has become a global game, so the best players are being drawn from a MUCH larger population pool. So, while B school basketball is fun to watch, of course the best teams are the 4A schools with a much larger student body.

Also, training has improved and players are bigger and stronger now. I'm not sure they are that much bigger and stronger than the top 5% of the NBA in 1960 (I'd posit Russell would be fine in today's game), but they are definitely bigger.

I've also wondered if the massive amount of $ that the top players earn doesn't result in more motivation to specialize in a sport and train specifically for it. Top players now don't take spring and summer off in high school to play baseball, all that often, while it was common in decades past.

I'd also think that Wilt Chamberlain, at 7'1", 275 lbs running a 10.9 100 yard dash and triple jumping over 50 feet would still be okay in today's game. Of course, if he was playing today he'd also be training with the guys today, so he'd be stronger and faster too, but I still think if you put him on the court he'd be a starter and would adjust to playing bigger guys than he faced.

gonzagafan62
04-03-2015, 08:07 PM
Honeycomb would be a star if he played in the NBA today. He averaged a double double during his NBA career. Watch some of the video. He was doing Dr. J stuff before Dr. J. He was a great defensive player and a spectacular leaper.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkzRjMC1ZpI

Then there's the story of the Gus Johnson nail at the Corner Club in Moscow

http://www.cornerclubmoscow.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2

That was pretty fun to watch. Thanks for sharing.

demian
04-03-2015, 10:23 PM
LMAO. Nice one, Demian. Looks like you're trying to increase the size of your inheritance.

HAHA Very astute of you Angelo Roncalli. No I am not seeking an inheritance increase, he is my #1 no matter what. I do understand your point tho lol haha

MDABE80
04-03-2015, 10:46 PM
John Havlicek would be a great NBA player TODAY.
SO would Stockton.....he's 51 now. Jerry West would shoot the light out. WIlt would work. And if you're looking for shot blocking, Russell still would be swatting.

I don't understand Mojo's statements.......Burgess was a solid 6 ft 2 in........and he led the nation in scoring when there was only 2 pointers. If any of you all saw him, if there'd been a 3 pt line, he'd have scored 45-50 as his points were from well beyond the current 3 pt line.

Maybe things are difference now but those guys from back then, understood the game.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2015, 04:01 AM
The Big O was a 6-5 Westbrook.

ZAGLAWQB
04-04-2015, 04:34 AM
Jim DeWeese was the best defensive guard I have seen at Gonzaga.....since 1966.

bballbeachbum
04-04-2015, 02:40 PM
too tough, agree there are so many, just from '99 even, but fun to think about

some thoughts would be Dickau would be my 6th man, bring him in and run stuff for him the whole time he's in and he's got the Jamal Crawford green light (thought about Raivio for that role too); Pargo makes the team to deal with it when team's dare you to drive, he would put that D on hold
the Ammo/Wiltjer combo at that position is lethal as is the KO/Calvary/Harris combo at theirs; we'd look to set up all of those guys to go off
would like to find a spot for JP so he could work that 2 man game with Ammo and drive them nuts

we'd score a ton of points and look to give up just less than a ton

DixieZag
04-04-2015, 02:57 PM
I can only go from the '90 period on, but, IMHO Stepp was the best pure shooter GU had. I even include AMMO in that consideration, though Adam could drive and do funky moves, too, as a scorer. But, Stepp best pure shooter and perhaps had other skills that would move him up even that list if he wasn't playing in pain every single game of his career with the knees of a 45 year old post NFL man.