athleticism at the guard position

[seacatfan]

A couple posts I've seen today got me thinking on this. Of course the Duke guards' ability to drive in the game yesterday and Gonzaga's guards' difficulty getting themselves open to take shots was evident. Pangos and Bell had great careers at GU, they will be missed tremendously. It's the end of an era and beginning of a new one. It will be intriguing to watch Perkins and Melson develop, I think they have different strengths and weaknesses than the outgoing duo.

I got to musing over GU guards over the years. It seems like when this whole thing got rolling back in '99, Santangelo and Q were plenty quick and plenty athletic, if not big. Dickau and Stepp were a totally different combo, not great athletes but plenty successful. During one stretch the Zags had guards like Pargo, PMac and Goodson. Hard to get more athletic and quick than those guys. And yet after that, seems like many GU fans were longing for a guard kinda like...Pangos. Seems like it's cyclical, keeps going around and around. Unfortunately I don't think GU will ever get a guard that can shoot like Dickau/Pangos, can distribute, can blow past a defender and drive and finish, has good size/length/physique and explosiveness and a high bball IQ. Such a guy probably doesn't exist, and if he does he would go to a blue blood Power 5 school and be a sure fire one and doner. Anyway just a rambling post, but athleticism/quickness for guards isn't necessarily the be all and end all. Zags have had that at times and it wasn't always everything it was cracked up to be. I'm excited about Perkins, I think he can be outstanding at GU. Liked what I saw in the few games before he got injured. We shall see what transpires next.

[CDC84]

Perkins and Melson are an upgrade over Pangos/Bell from an athleticism/size standpoint. That being said, I doubt that either one will ever be as deadly from deep as Pangos was and Gary was most of his career. But I don't think they need to be. If they could just shoot threes at a 37 or 38 percent clip, that would probably be enough so long as they learn to run the offense and the team with intelligence. However, we need to be patient. I think we were all spoiled by how fast Pangos/Bell developed.

The one thing I am certain of at this point is that Few is going to always side with shooters over athletes w/ a defense first focus. It just hurts the GU offense too much to have guys who can't shoot or who don't have a scorer's mentality.

[seacatfan]

Perkins and Melson are definitely an upgrade over Pangos/Bell from an athleticism/size standpoint. That being said, I doubt that either one will ever be as deadly from deep as Pangos was and Gary was most of his career. But I don't think they need to be. If they could just shoot threes at a 37 or 38 percent clip, that would probably be enough so long as they learn to run the offense and the team with intelligence. However, we need to be patient. I think we were all spoiled by how fast Pangos/Bell developed.

Shooting ability vs. athleticism/quickness is a trade off most teams have to make with guards. There aren't many players that excel at both to go around, even blue blood programs don't necessarily have this. About the best combination of these in recent years I can think of was Ty Lawson. One of the quickest players I've ever seen, impossible to stop from driving, but he also developed into a deadly shooter from distance by the end of his career at UNC. Very rare though. UConn was carried to Championships in '11 and '14 by extremely quick guards that could drive at will in Walker and Napier. Both could hit the 3 but I don't think either was a great shooter.

[Hoopaholic]

I don't think we will have to rely on the three ball to open up the paint like we did this year. Melson and Perkins provides a penetrating, slashing with pass options far more than we had this year. Different set of skills and the attack the rim with looks to dump to the bigs will be the name of the game instead of pass in move return pass for 3 ball this past year..

different style come to zag country....the question will be can it be as succesful

[Zagceo]

Shooting ability vs. athleticism/quickness is a trade off most teams have to make with guards. There aren't many players that excel at both to go around, even blue blood programs don't necessarily have this. About the best combination of these in recent years I can think of was Ty Lawson. One of the quickest players I've ever seen, impossible to stop from driving, but he also developed into a deadly shooter from distance by the end of his career at UNC. Very rare though. UConn was carried to Championships in '11 and '14 by extremely quick guards that could drive at will in Walker and Napier. Both could hit the 3 but I don't think either was a great shooter.

You're not gonna like it but Sam Dekker was playing like a guard against Arizona and shooting lights out from 3 and rim running. It was very impressive. Had quickness and size 6'9 that was unstoppable for the cats.

[sittingon50]

You're not gonna like it but Sam Dekker was playing like a guard against Arizona and shooting lights out from 3 and rim running. It was very impressive. Had quickness and size 6'9 that was unstoppable for the cats.

Agree, ceo. Dekker is a stud.

[WallaWallaZag]

You're not gonna like it but Sam Dekker was playing like a guard against Arizona and shooting lights out from 3 and rim running. It was very impressive. Had quickness and size 6'9 that was unstoppable for the cats.

dekker is a college 4 and nba 3 though, so not really in the guard conversation...he doesn't run the offense.

[Zagceo]

dekker is a college 4 and nba 3 though, so not really in the guard conversation...he doesn't run the offense.

Thats why I said you're not gonna like it but he was playing like a guard. But thanks for flash on what his position really is in college and the nba

[BULLDOG#1]

While this has traditionally been a problem for zag teams... the current makeup is just the opposite. Perkins, Melson, McClellan, Dranginis, Alberts ... all have size and are great athletes. The zags will definitely miss the shooting, but the problem of undersized and non-athletic guards will no longer be an issue. If any of these guards demonstrate a consistent 3 point shot (most likely Melson and Dranginis) then the zags backcourt will be deadly. If the zags start Perkins and Melson (my guess, but could be McClellan) and Dranginis at the 3, then there will be a lot of open looks for Melson and Dranginis -- Perkins can penetrate and kick and the bigs will demand double teams. Next year's success may hinge on the ability of someone (or by committee) other than Wiltjer consistently knocking down outside shots.

Regardless of that, these guards are bigger and more athletic than any group in recent memory. They should be able to lock down most WCC guards. The non-zag WCC guard group will be down next year -- lose Dee, Anderson, Haws, Carter, Bright, Halford...

[Zagdawg]

Perkins was shooting 40% from 3 (small sample size --4-10)-- but he should have a good shot at maintaining that clip next year.

[seacatfan]

Regardless of that, these guards are bigger and more athletic than any group in recent memory. They should be able to lock down most WCC guards. The non-zag WCC guard group will be down next year -- lose Dee, Anderson, Haws, Carter, Bright, Halford...

Add LMU's Payne to the departing list. Off the top of my head I'd say SCU's Brownridge will be the best returning guard in the WCC next year.

[seacatfan]

Yeah I noticed Dekker during the Arizona game. He's pretty good. Set his career high 2 games in a row, 23 against UNC and then 27 against Arizona. Peaking at the right time I'd say.

[scott257]

Aren't both Perkins and Melson supposed to be very proficient from the 3? I thought that the biggest potential problems from this season were that we lost Perkins to his injury and we never seemed to get Melson into the flow offensively in the minutes he did get.

[seacatfan]

Melson had a fairly good stretch of maybe 5-8 games. He started to fade and McClellan started taking more and more of the minutes spelling Pangos/Bell, didn't leave much PT for Melson down the stretch. He showed some flashes, has plenty to work on to improve his game.

[zagfan94]

What impressed me most about Melson was his lateral foot speed, second only to McClellan next year. At 6'3 - 6'4 and with what appears to be a much longer wingspan, he has all the physical tools to be an excellent defensive player. I hope he tries to make that his identity next year.