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zag buddy
03-11-2015, 03:15 PM
With the addition of two excellent coaches, Pepperdine (Wilson?) and LMUs new coach plus the abundance of underclassman that will be back, I expect the WCC to be a real juggernaut to play through next year. It's my feeling that as a group, the coaches in the WCC compare very favorably to any group of coaches in any conference.

jazzdelmar
03-11-2015, 03:22 PM
Are you sure? A lot of very good players leaving: Haws, KC, Dee, Waldow.

Once and Future Zag
03-11-2015, 03:30 PM
True - if all things go well Here's how I see it for the rest of the league.

BYU should be a top 25ish team, SMC and Pepperdine should be top-50 teams.

Hard to say whether USF will be a mess like this year, or a top-100 team like the year before.

Portland is similar to to my read for USF, except they're more likable.

But you can probably count on them being ranked somewhere between 80-125.

Hard to get a read on SCU, but I think they're a notch below that - say 125-200-ish.

LMU and Pacific really have nowhere to go but up. I suspect that Pacific will improve more next year, given their play this year, but LMU has a better long-term coach I think.

USD will probably be down given that Anderson and Dee will be gone, and they were really solid D-1 players.

seacatfan
03-11-2015, 03:33 PM
The Zags will have heavy losses with graduating players but should be able to reload fairly well. Many WCC teams can't do that. BYU should still be good but lose several key Sr. Portland and St. Mary's are being gutted by players using up their eligibility. USD loses their starting backcourt (for the last 4 years I believe). I'd expect more of a shuffling of the deck than a drastic improvement of the whole conference.

seacatfan
03-11-2015, 03:34 PM
Oh, and LMU's best player is transferring out, so they might actually get worse. Unless it's addition by subtraction.

23dpg
03-11-2015, 03:53 PM
Are you sure? A lot of very good players leaving: Haws, KC, Dee, Waldow.

I thought Collinsworth had another year left.

jazzdelmar
03-11-2015, 03:56 PM
I thought Collinsworth had another year left.

Ur right. That's great. Love to watch him play. A real Zag.

rennis
03-11-2015, 03:57 PM
I thought Collinsworth had another year left.

He does. And we should probably start referring to him as Mr. WCC 2016 Conference Player of the Year Kyle Collinsworth.

cjm720
03-11-2015, 04:04 PM
Are you sure? A lot of very good players leaving: Haws, KC, Dee, Waldow.

I wonder how good little haws will be? Certainly not going to replace big bro, senior leader.

jazzdelmar
03-11-2015, 04:07 PM
He does. And we should probably start referring to him as Mr. WCC 2016 Conference Player of the Year Kyle Collinsworth.

KW or the Bonus might have something to say about that.

rennis
03-11-2015, 04:15 PM
KW or the Bonus might have something to say about that.

I'll take bets on this one.

CdAZagFan
03-11-2015, 04:21 PM
St. Mary's is losing their entire starting five - aren't they? I believe BYU will still be a contender and Pepperdine may still be tough, but I almost feel like WCC will go down a little next year (mainly because of St. Mary's). Hope I'm wrong - would love to see all the WCC teams schedule tough OOC next year and try to shake things up...

DixieZag
03-11-2015, 04:25 PM
It would appear to me that SMC has next to nothing. I cannot think of a time since they've had so little returning. Any SMC fans want to weigh in on what is coming in it would be much appreciated.

SCU should be pretty good, too. Brownidge isn't going anywhere and he can carry them through a lot of games.

Pepp might be in the hunt for 1,2,3, in the conference, though I think we'll be favored with SAbonis, KW and Karno back (if any or all are not, re-evaluate.)

MBAGael
03-11-2015, 04:40 PM
This should be our starting PG next year:

http://www.smcgaels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=101618&SPID=12536&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=21400&ATCLID=209483949&Q_SEASON=2015

You know Naar, our WCC freshman award winner. Look for Landale to start at the center, 6'11" and Hermanson at the wing. Pineau or Fitzner should start at the 4. We have three freshmen Aussies coming in and a good PG from Idaho named Stefan Gonzalez. We will be very young!

cjm720
03-11-2015, 05:31 PM
This should be our starting PG next year:

http://www.smcgaels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=101618&SPID=12536&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=21400&ATCLID=209483949&Q_SEASON=2015

You know Naar, our WCC freshman award winner. Look for Landale to start at the center, 6'11" and Hermanson at the wing. Pineau or Fitzner should start at the 4. We have three freshmen Aussies coming in and a good PG from Idaho named Stefan Gonzalez. We will be very young!

really like Naar's game and court awareness.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-11-2015, 05:55 PM
Will Mika be back on the court for BYU? If so, they should be a more balanced team, perhaps even a Top 25 team. I think Pepperdine has enough returning talent to put a Top 40 team on the floor. I would not be at all surprised to see both of those teams in contention for an at large bid to the Big Dance.

Neither team will unseat the Zags at the top of the league, but either one might steal a regular season game from us.

I don't think SMC is going to recover enough to challenge those teams or Gonzaga for at least another year.

DixieZag
03-11-2015, 06:16 PM
This should be our starting PG next year:

http://www.smcgaels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=101618&SPID=12536&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=21400&ATCLID=209483949&Q_SEASON=2015

You know Naar, our WCC freshman award winner. Look for Landale to start at the center, 6'11" and Hermanson at the wing. Pineau or Fitzner should start at the 4. We have three freshmen Aussies coming in and a good PG from Idaho named Stefan Gonzalez. We will be very young!

Thanks!

I knew there would be some players on the horizon.

Nevada Don
03-11-2015, 08:11 PM
Thanks!

I knew there would be some players on the horizon.

If the Gaels surge to the Top of the WCC next year, we won't forget the little people who helped us along the way. :)

Naph
03-11-2015, 09:18 PM
A lot for the Gaels will depend on whether Joe Coleman is healthy or not. If they have him they could have
start: Rahon (rJr) - Coleman (rrJr?) - Hermanson (rSo) - Pineau (Jr) - Landale (So)

Naar first off the bench. Then it will be a raft of freshmen. I'm guessing Gonzalez redshirts. Krebs(fr) gets minutes at 2/3. Clark(fr) gets minutes at 3, maybe 4 against some teams. Fitzner(rFr) getting minutes at 4 (Pineau playing 5 when Landale is out). I'm only expecting spot minutes for Hunter(Fr C) if there is foul trouble ahead of him. But I doubt he redshirts.
If Coleman can't go, then maybe Gonzalez doesn't redshirt, Naar starts next to Rahon and its an all-freshman bench.


Happy to be corrected, but I don't think Mika is back next year. (And I don't think Haws the Younger is playing yet either)
http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2014/3/14/5505218/looking-ahead-who-is-the-future-for-byu-basketball-haws-dastrup-mika-nixon-aytes

I think BYU's starting 5 will be something like Emery - Fischer - Collinsworth - Aytes - Austin

jazzdelmar
03-11-2015, 09:41 PM
Is that the good Rahon at Smc? Brother was a bust at SC then SDSU for the most part.

Typical overrated Torrey pines player.

If little Emery is as good as bro, BYU will be nice.

Naph
03-11-2015, 09:47 PM
Here's his bio from his time at Boston College
http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/joe_rahon_800774.html

cggonzaga
03-11-2015, 11:30 PM
I'll take that bet rennis. Assuming Wiltjer returns next year I'd have him as favorite for the award. He should have won it this year, no offense to Pangos. I'll say it again, i don't understand how Wiltjer will be an all American but not win his own leagues MVP award.

Another prediction.... Pepperdine finishes 2nd next year. They return virtually everyone and had some key guys miss time this year with injuries. I see Pepp being top 25ish not BYU.

BTB
03-12-2015, 12:23 AM
I'll take that bet rennis. Assuming Wiltjer returns next year I'd have him as favorite for the award. He should have won it this year, no offense to Pangos. I'll say it again, i don't understand how Wiltjer will be an all American but not win his own leagues MVP award.

Another prediction.... Pepperdine finishes 2nd next year. They return virtually everyone and had some key guys miss time this year with injuries. I see Pepp being top 25ish not BYU.

Dont want to derail the thread (although its always bound to happen eventually) but Pangos is more valuable to our team than Wiltjer. If Wiltjer wasnt there everyone would have more shots and more points, our efficiency might dip a bit but not by much. But watch what happens when Pangos comes out. We stall big time when Pangos is out, which is also why Perkins was so valuable. Pangos is well deserving even if the stats dont say so. Most valuable player on the best team.

Back to the thread: I am very positive about the WCC going forward. SMC looks to be the only team to drop off next year. They may fall significantly (or hopefully will reload well, tough to say) but almost everyone else in the league I think will be better next year (maybe not us, but only because this year will be tough to beat).

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-12-2015, 02:49 AM
Another prediction.... Pepperdine finishes 2nd next year. They return virtually everyone and had some key guys miss time this year with injuries. I see Pepp being top 25ish not BYU.

It could certainly happen.

kitzbuel
03-12-2015, 04:52 AM
It could certainly happen.

Any predictions about 3 WCC teams being ranked next year?

gonzagafan62
03-12-2015, 05:45 AM
Any predictions about 3 WCC teams being ranked next year?

Gonzaga starts, fades, in comes BYU, they get swept by Pepperdine again and enter Pepperdine.

hooter73
03-12-2015, 08:22 AM
Will Mika be back on the court for BYU?

I think he'll be back for 2016-2017 and is going to be a dang nightmare. He was Sabonis-esque in his relative raw-ness but the power and desire was forefront for sure. After a little more maturing and depending on how much playing missionarys really get to do, by the time he gets back up to speed, he is going to be a dang force for BYU.

cggonzaga
03-12-2015, 09:26 AM
Dont want to derail the thread (although its always bound to happen eventually) but Pangos is more valuable to our team than Wiltjer. If Wiltjer wasnt there everyone would have more shots and more points, our efficiency might dip a bit but not by much. But watch what happens when Pangos comes out. We stall big time when Pangos is out, which is also why Perkins was so valuable. Pangos is well deserving even if the stats dont say so. Most valuable player on the best team.



Kevin Pangos, along with Pargo and Stepp, are my favorite Zags. That being said, I can recognize Pangos' award was a lifetime achievement award and well deserved. No question he did what the team needed him to do this season. His performance was about as unselfish an act as I've seen in sports.

However, this team is not 32-2 without Kyle Wiltjer. Yes other players would've stepped up but none of them take the place of Wiltjer.

TheGonzagaFactor
03-12-2015, 10:05 AM
With the addition of two excellent coaches, Pepperdine (Wilson?) and LMUs new coach plus the abundance of underclassman that will be back, I expect the WCC to be a real juggernaut to play through next year. It's my feeling that as a group, the coaches in the WCC compare very favorably to any group of coaches in any conference.

Disagree. It might be tougher, but it seems like we go through this every year. Tons of underclassmen coming back, but most of them have mediocre (at best) coaching to develop them. I see what you're saying, but this same thing is said every year and it never really pans out. WCC coaches outside the top 3 and possibly Wilson/Verlin (they're so new) aren't great at developing players and using them in the most effective ways.

TexasZagFan
03-12-2015, 10:10 AM
Disagree. It might be tougher, but it seems like we go through this every year. Tons of underclassmen coming back, but most of them have mediocre (at best) coaching to develop them. I see what you're saying, but this same thing is said every year and it never really pans out. WCC coaches outside the top 3 and possibly Wilson/Verlin (they're so new) aren't great at developing players and using them in the most effective ways.

With the exception of the top 3 (GU, BYU, and SMC), the rest of the conference will be mediocre, at best. These other teams will rise and fall like the tide. Schools in climes like San Diego and Pepperdine have a natural recruiting edge, but don't seem to be able to take advantage of it. What has Santa Clara done in the last decade, dominated the Zags and the Gaels, and now BYU in the last several years?

cggonzaga
03-12-2015, 01:34 PM
With the exception of the top 3 (GU, BYU, and SMC), the rest of the conference will be mediocre, at best. These other teams will rise and fall like the tide. Schools in climes like San Diego and Pepperdine have a natural recruiting edge, but don't seem to be able to take advantage of it. What has Santa Clara done in the last decade, dominated the Zags and the Gaels, and now BYU in the last several years?

So Pepperdine who finished 4th in the league while starting 3 underclassmen and 2 juniors with nothing but underclassmen coming off the bench, are going to be mediocre next year? They will finish behind an SMC squad that is losing 4 starters including Waldow which without him would've been nowhere near the top of the league this year?

MBAGael
03-12-2015, 01:50 PM
To clarify, we are losing 5 starters. Carter, Jackson, Waldow, Simmons, and Bright. But thanks for the confidence in us :adored:

bballbeachbum
03-12-2015, 02:01 PM
So Pepperdine who finished 4th in the league while starting 3 underclassmen and 2 juniors with nothing but underclassmen coming off the bench, are going to be mediocre next year? They will finish behind an SMC squad that is losing 4 starters including Waldow which without him would've been nowhere near the top of the league this year?

makes sense regarding Pep but they still have to prove they can develop a player and a program, we'll see, hope Wilson and co. can do it. if they can, they have a nice hand to deal with that young core. if they can recruit a little size.......

seacatfan
03-12-2015, 02:08 PM
Portland loses van der Mars, Bailey, Gerun, Barker and Sharp. Their WHOLE frontcourt and a couple important guards. Wintering, Pressley and Todd return, not sure there is much else to work with. They will probably go from the middle of the pack to near the botttom.

cggonzaga
03-12-2015, 02:53 PM
To clarify, we are losing 5 starters. Carter, Jackson, Waldow, Simmons, and Bright. But thanks for the confidence in us

Yeah sorry about that. You know more than I do about your roster for next year but I'm a little worried this is the beginning of the end for SMC. I would be extremely happy to be wrong about this.

MBAGael
03-12-2015, 03:48 PM
Pepperdine is ranked 106 by Ken Pom now. I hope they are a top 100 team next year and i am expecting that!

Randy does a very good job of developing and recruiting. Two of the three Aussies are studs but we will be young. My best guess is we are a NIT team next year. But we don't know if Coleman can play and have one more scholarship to give. It most likely will be an impact player for next year.

75Zag
03-12-2015, 03:52 PM
I expect to be taller and thinner next year. You expect the WCC to be better next year. I will give you even odds on which of us is correct. Please place your bets in multiples of $500 only so we don't have to deal with the small bills.

Go Bulldogs!

kitzbuel
03-12-2015, 04:55 PM
Pepperdine is ranked 106 by Ken Pom now. I hope they are a top 100 team next year and i am expecting that!



All I want for Christmas is three less sub 200 teams in the conference.

spike_jr
03-12-2015, 04:59 PM
I expect to be taller and thinner next year. You expect the WCC to be better next year. I will give you even odds on which of us is correct. Please place your bets in multiples of $500 only so we don't have to deal with the small bills.

Go Bulldogs!

Do you have to be taller AND thinner or just one? :D

jazzdelmar
03-12-2015, 06:21 PM
Portland loses van der Mars, Bailey, Gerun, Barker and Sharp. Their WHOLE frontcourt and a couple important guards. Wintering, Pressley and Todd return, not sure there is much else to work with. They will probably go from the middle of the pack to near the botttom.

Is Pressley the son of Harold, who went by Cos at Villanova?

seacatfan
03-12-2015, 06:26 PM
Is Pressley the son of Harold, who went by Cos at Villanova?

I had no idea, but I just looked it up and yes, that is his father.

jazzdelmar
03-12-2015, 06:40 PM
I had no idea, but I just looked it up and yes, that is his father.

Cool. Looks like dad, who looked like the formerly funny TV sitcom star from Philadelphia.

http://www.google.com/search?q=harold+pressley&biw=1024&bih=676&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=7kACVYypDIOpyQSJuoKgDg&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

thegloriousgoateeofKP
03-12-2015, 06:55 PM
I think he'll be back for 2016-2017 and is going to be a dang nightmare. He was Sabonis-esque in his relative raw-ness but the power and desire was forefront for sure. After a little more maturing and depending on how much playing missionarys really get to do, by the time he gets back up to speed, he is going to be a dang force for BYU.

Curious about this...exactly how do missionaries keep their basketball skills sharp? You can't go two years without playing competitive basketball and then hop right into Division 1 ball

Vanzagger
03-12-2015, 07:05 PM
I expect to be taller and thinner next year. You expect the WCC to be better next year. I will give you even odds on which of us is correct. Please place your bets in multiples of $500 only so we don't have to deal with the small bills.

Go Bulldogs!

75 how was your NASCAR race? Did they feed you some good ### roast and ribs? I threw down some coin on Lagano. I think he had a good first 20

seacatfan
03-12-2015, 07:23 PM
Curious about this...exactly how do missionaries keep their basketball skills sharp? You can't go two years without playing competitive basketball and then hop right into Division 1 ball

Don't know. Haws didn't seem rusty at all when he came back. They must have figured out a way to keep their skill level while they're away from playing competitively.

Nevada Don
03-12-2015, 08:47 PM
Yeah sorry about that. You know more than I do about your roster for next year but I'm a little worried this is the beginning of the end for SMC. I would be extremely happy to be wrong about this.

You have two of the best from GIAG posting on this thread. MBAGAEL is an objective, well informed, just the facts type guy and Naph is a very knowledgeable basketball mind. I guess Gonzaga really does attract the best and brightest.

Once and Future Zag
03-13-2015, 08:21 AM
All I want for Christmas is three less sub 200 teams in the conference.

That would be awfully difficult - as there are only 2 this year.

Bkzag
03-13-2015, 10:36 AM
BYU is going to be tough next year...Fischer, Austin, Kaufasi, Bartley IV and Collingsworth...Kaufasi has transformed himself into a decent post player...when I watched him earlier this year, he was so raw. He will be much more skilled next season...I swear I've never seen Bartley IV ever make a layup in traffic...seems like he always takes his eyes off the basket or closes them...Mika and The younger Haws come in 2016...Andrus and Toolson will be on mission for the next two years and Hartsock's younger brother is coming off mission and he is a highly touted shooter like his brother...

Have heard KW won't be here next year so back to a 3 - Man rotation of bigs BUT w/o KW...it will be hard to replace four quality starters and still be competitive as we are this season...

BYU and GU will vie for the WCC title next year and Pepperdine is just one/two post player(s) away from being really tough and a conference contender...

cggonzaga
03-13-2015, 12:39 PM
it will be hard to replace four quality starters and still be competitive as we are this season...

For the rest of the WCC, yes. Not for GU anymore. KW would be a big hit because his game is unique. However, our guards have the potential to be better than what we have this year and Ryan Edwards could be the real deal next year. The staff LOVES Ryan. The cupboard is not empty by any stretch but yes we'll be losing some great pieces.

BYUBMBR
03-13-2015, 01:10 PM
BYU is going to be tough next year...Fischer, Austin, Kaufasi, Bartley IV and Collingsworth...Kaufasi has transformed himself into a decent post player...when I watched him earlier this year, he was so raw. He will be much more skilled next season...I swear I've never seen Bartley IV ever make a layup in traffic...seems like he always takes his eyes off the basket or closes them...Mika and The younger Haws come in 2016...Andrus and Toolson will be on mission for the next two years and Hartsock's younger brother is coming off mission and he is a highly touted shooter like his brother...

Have heard KW won't be here next year so back to a 3 - Man rotation of bigs BUT w/o KW...it will be hard to replace four quality starters and still be competitive as we are this season...

BYU and GU will vie for the WCC title next year and Pepperdine is just one/two post player(s) away from being really tough and a conference contender...

Toolson is undecided about the mission. Worthington has decided to serve though. Nixon and Andrus are probably gone this summer too.

I am hoping a whole offseason and maybe a big man camp will help Kaufusi take another step. The progress and development this season alone was impressive. He only played one year of HS basketball. It'd be nice if Isaac Neilson could make the same progress but I am not sure he will.

Along with Noah's brother Jakob Hartsock, BYU will get Braiden Shaw back from his mission. They both have similar size and games. Also, Kyle Davis will be eligible after transferring from Utah State. He started 27 games last year and averaged 9 and 7.

Aytes and Austin will both be back and healthy. BYU will have a lot of depth with some talent in the frontcourt next year.

As for the backcourt, replacing the scoring from Haws, Winder and Halford will be difficult. That's almost 40 ppg.

Fischer and KC will be back. Bartley may takeover the Winder role but he needs to make better decisions. Jordan Chatman redshirted this year after suffering an injury early in the season. He came back from his mission last year, is the son of former BYU great Jeff Chatman and was Gatorade POY in Washington before his mission. Corey Calvert will also be back but I wonder how much he'll play.

BYU will have two super freshmen next year who can flat out shoot the ball and score. Nick Emery is home from his mission and 3* recruit Zac Seljaas will play a year before his mission.

Next year will be interesting for BYU. The frontcourt should be much improved. The backcourt won't have as much depth, but will have talent. KC will be the undisputed leader on this team and he'll put them on his back.

The seasons after next have BYU fans really excited. Mika is home with Kaufusi as a Jr. Plus Payton Dastrup and TJ Haws. Tyler is an all-timer at BYU, but I think TJ is special. TJ can do everything Tyler can, but there are things TJ can do that Tyler cannot. And if BYU lands some other guys like Frank Jackson who was once committed, the future could be very bright.

Angelo Roncalli
03-13-2015, 01:20 PM
Curious about this...exactly how do missionaries keep their basketball skills sharp? You can't go two years without playing competitive basketball and then hop right into Division 1 ball

Here's one way they keep their skills sharp:


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=mormon%20missionary%20basketball%20video

SunDevilGolfZag
03-13-2015, 06:54 PM
Teams like San Diego that micromanage every possession to death will never help our league

MJ777
03-14-2015, 01:50 AM
Teams like San Diego that micromanage every possession to death will never help our league

USD might be firing Coach Grier soon, and who knows who they will bring in if that happens. Is Paul Westhead available?

caduceus
03-14-2015, 02:14 AM
For the rest of the WCC, yes. Not for GU anymore. KW would be a big hit because his game is unique. However, our guards have the potential to be better than what we have this year and Ryan Edwards could be the real deal next year. The staff LOVES Ryan. The cupboard is not empty by any stretch but yes we'll be losing some great pieces.

Oh, God. Imagine Karno, Sabonis, Ryan, and Wiltjer in the frontcourt. If we have serviceable guard play (and nobody bolts for the draft), we are going to be very dangerous again.

BYUBMBR
03-14-2015, 05:13 AM
Don't know. Haws didn't seem rusty at all when he came back. They must have figured out a way to keep their skill level while they're away from playing competitively.


Curious about this...exactly how do missionaries keep their basketball skills sharp? You can't go two years without playing competitive basketball and then hop right into Division 1 ball

Short answer: They don't.

You only get one day a week to really play and even that is limited to halfcourt only. Seriously. The players all get a regimen to follow but it's difficult to do depending on your circumstance. Even then you're limited to an hour or so of exercise every morning. And because you're attached at the hip with another missionary, if he doesn't care to workout in the morning, you generally don't workout either. Even then, it's not like these guys have access to gyms or open courts. So most workouts consist of body weight exercises and maybe some jogging or skipping rope. Haws was in the Philippines and KC in Russia. Not a lot of opportunities to hoop it up.

BYU has developed a program though for these guys to get back into shape and shake off the mission legs when they get home. BYU is fortunate to have Bobby Medina as their S&C coach. Bobby was the UNLV S&C coach during their Runnin' Rebels days and then went to the NBA with the Sonics for 5 years and then the Trailblazers for 15 years. He brings a wealth of knowledge and deserves a lot of credit for getting guys like KC and Haws back into game shape quickly. He was also instrumental in getting KC back from his ACL injury so quickly.