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Reborn
03-01-2015, 06:47 AM
Thanks to venting a little last night I was able to sleep well. However, thanks to this board I did not go to bed very early (1 a.m.); so I'm sure I'll be pretty tired later. However, I slept well, had really good dreams; and woke up feeling good about the Zags. I have no bad feelings about Few at all (which I usually do after a loss...hahaha) and have no bad feelings about the team. Did they play well last night. No. Have they been playing well lately? Not for a full game that's for sure. Can they go deep into the tournament we call March Madness by playing a half game? IMO, No! I still believe in this team, and in particular the Coaches and players. I think they've all done a great job this year, and I believe that they will respond to the loss last night. This team will come together as a team, figure it out, and play like they're capable of the rest of the way. I believe that Few is a great coach, and has a great staff and they will figure out what BYU did to them, as well as what they did to themselves.

Most great teams also lose games now and then. Losing sucks. It hurts. It's part of the journey, and this is exactly what coaches mean when they say that it's the journey that really matters. The important thing for this team is that they face the fact that they lost, adjust, and make some changes and move forward and get back to playing as a team. The good news is that there are a lot of games left. And, imo, all of them are now the most important games of this wonderful season. So we have a lot to look forward to.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-01-2015, 07:11 AM
Fantastic post and perspective Reborn...thank you!!

Stepping away from the particulars of last night's game, my thoughts are this team needs a mini-break from all the attention, hype, expectations etc.. maybe even a day or two to step away from basketball altogether. Give the coaches 48 hours to review, assess and prepare for the all important "2nd season" while the players can decompress/rest and get refocused for postseason play.

Whether he would admit it or not, Pangos must be exhausted....emotionally and physically from the senior week hype, press interviews to 39 minutes of playing at BYU's hectic pace last night...man Pangos worked his ass off on defense last night.

I was surprisingly deflated by the Zags loss, but after sleeping then reading Reborn's post I am ready to move forward and plant my feet firmly in the truth that this team can still accomplish great things this season. As Adam Morrison once said, "Coach me up!!" Do your thing coaches, and I really hope the players can just step away for 24-48 hours to relax, rest and get re-focused...perhaps another "mini retreat" overnighter?

Reborn
03-01-2015, 07:19 AM
I'm glad you're feeling better. This is too good of a team to feel bad for too long. I've always believed that losing is part of life, and part of sports, and how we respond to it is what makes the difference between the best teams, and those that are not quite the best. I am sure that our guys will not be happy about that loss. They'll come together, IN MY OPINION. And play some really good basketball from here on out. My hope is that the loss last night will make them even better in the most important games that are now coming up. I can hardly wait for next week.

Go Zags!!!

Reborn
03-01-2015, 07:50 AM
I was a little surprised to see that the loss last night had no affect on either our RPI nor BPI. I'm sure it will affect the AP poll though.

Go Zags!!!

ZagHouse
03-01-2015, 07:53 AM
The loss while bothersome really felt like I was watching one of their flameouts in March. BYU played like they had something to lose and we came out thinking we could ride the emotion of senior night, a home crowd, and a cover of SI to another victory. I do think this league has its challenges and BYU is good enough right now to give any top tier team problems, however I saw a weird lack of cohesiveness last night. Missed assignments, hesitant shot selection, and our vaunted transfer air ball, fumble numerous passes, and look completely lost on the defensive end. Both teams left points at the free-throw line, but I felt BYU's misses were more egregious, and should have won by more considering who was missing. Whatever the reason, emotional, or physical fatigue, until the team can get back to the energy when Shem would actually dunk, or step out and hit a fade or a bank off the back board we're a top 25 team but not top 10. I'm officially in my cautiously optimistic mode now so my emotions are not crushed come March.

Ezag
03-01-2015, 08:04 AM
Nicely said Reborn and others.

I am not shocked about this loss. I have thought we were going to get caught at some point. I am glad that if we were going to lose it was to BYU and not Pacific, Loyola or most of any of the other WCC teams.

I had 2 drinks and slept very well.

Time off for this team can only help and it is very much needed. We will not get #1 seed so that pressure is off and rightfully so. I don't think we are a #1. Not even sure were a #2. Either way this board gets caught up in seeding every year and every year too many excuses to why we lost. Bad draw, tough region, high altitude, east coast whatever. Until we make a run deep we will never put this talk to rest. We know how good we are and it time to put it together and let the rest of the country see this. This is a good team. Is it the best ever? I don't think but who knows for sure?

Mr Vulture
03-01-2015, 08:26 AM
My personal thoughts are that this loss may be a blessing in disguise. First off, Wiltjer was off all weekend, it happens. I'm not even worried about him getting his stroke back. Secondly, I think this relieves a lot of pressure and attention that would have inevitably come had we been a 1 seed. All they need to do is play their game and they will be fine.

My only concern with the loss is if it were to end up getting us placed in the Kentucky region.

Reborn
03-01-2015, 08:29 AM
The biggest criticism that the Zags receive from media sports writers and analysts is that the Zags are not tough. Although at times the Zags showed real good toughness, they DID NOT SHOW IT LAST NIGHT. At least not on the boards. Collinsworth was the tough guy who pushed the Zags around all night long. And so did Kaufusi. Daufusi made the shot of the game when he THREW in a fall-away, falling down high arching hook shot that must have gone 10 feet up into the air before falling in. Was it pure luck or pure concentration. Meanwhile Zag bigs are missing layups. BYU just seemed so much more focused then the Zags last night. BYU had the mojo, or as I like to say, the fire last night. Let's see if the Zags can take it back.

Go Zags!!!

CdAZagFan
03-01-2015, 09:08 AM
I think the Zags will "rebound" from this loss - literally and figuratively...

Bogozags
03-01-2015, 09:54 AM
Let's keep this in perspective...we lost a game last night. Sure an undefeated conference season, 21 game conference win streak, 41 game home court winning streak all went by the wayside BUT we play again next Saturday. This team will bounce back, they ARE tough and this loss will re-ignite their desire to win. I have no doubt they will emerge stronger from the loss.

To beat UK they would have to shoot horribly, play weak defense for the entire game AND their opponent would have to shoot well, get second chance points and rebound...this is the scenario of the game last night. We had problems making lay-ups, our top two scorers had the worst games of their Zag and BYU played a great game and deserved to win.

We believe the Zags are a team of destiny and this is just a set back. Win out, get the two seed and play in Portland.

DixieZag
03-01-2015, 10:20 AM
Of course it is just "one game" and just "a loss" and all that .

But the trend is very scary. At each point over the last 6 weeks we've said the same thing "if we can just get through SCU/USF this is always tough" and looking listless against Pepp "Pepp just plays us hard" and then Pacific "Looking to SMC" and then SMC "wake up call needed" and then USD "Grier just knows how to play us" All those things have been said, and said b/c we didn't look very good.

And, I'm pessimistic until I see it reversed. We are not aggressive, we have no swag, we don't move the ball crisply, other than BWes and Sabonis, we don't attack the basket, we're not getting the assists we were earlier. We're supposed to be elite offensively, I don't see it.

Something is wrong with Karno - he is back to playing heavy, soft and spending too much time talking to refs
Drainginis brings what he brings, but I think Mac should get all Drangs minutes at this point. One could make a very strong argument Mac should be starting.
If KW is getting worked defensively or listless offensively, there were times last night I honestly thought we needed Nunez's defense underneath to block some of those drives and match BYUs rebounding energy. It's not like Nunez will turn it over much more than the guys out there did.
As good and legendary as Pangos/Bell are, they need rest. Hopefully this week off is exactly what is needed.

I can't believe I'm about to say this but that team walked on the floor scared last night. It's like they knew they haven't been playing well and knew they had a ton of pressure.

I think they can turn it around. I think a week off is desperately needed. Someone said last night that we should look at video from early in the year, I think the team/coaches should spend two days looking at video from early in the year. Watch the Arizona game's first 35 minutes ten times.

Zagger
03-01-2015, 05:20 PM
Zags ran out of gas and had wrong map. A week off and a sunny 73-75 Vegas trip will do them well. Go Zags!

jim77
03-01-2015, 05:58 PM
Of course it is just "one game" and just "a loss" and all that .

But the trend is very scary. At each point over the last 6 weeks we've said the same thing "if we can just get through SCU/USF this is always tough" and looking listless against Pepp "Pepp just plays us hard" and then Pacific "Looking to SMC" and then SMC "wake up call needed" and then USD "Grier just knows how to play us" All those things have been said, and said b/c we didn't look very good.

And, I'm pessimistic until I see it reversed. We are not aggressive, we have no swag, we don't move the ball crisply, other than BWes and Sabonis, we don't attack the basket, we're not getting the assists we were earlier. We're supposed to be elite offensively, I don't see it.

Something is wrong with Karno - he is back to playing heavy, soft and spending too much time talking to refs
Drainginis brings what he brings, but I think Mac should get all Drangs minutes at this point. One could make a very strong argument Mac should be starting.
If KW is getting worked defensively or listless offensively, there were times last night I honestly thought we needed Nunez's defense underneath to block some of those drives and match BYUs rebounding energy. It's not like Nunez will turn it over much more than the guys out there did.
As good and legendary as Pangos/Bell are, they need rest. Hopefully this week off is exactly what is needed.

I can't believe I'm about to say this but that team walked on the floor scared last night. It's like they knew they haven't been playing well and knew they had a ton of pressure.

I think they can turn it around. I think a week off is desperately needed. Someone said last night that we should look at video from early in the year, I think the team/coaches should spend two days looking at video from early in the year. Watch the Arizona game's first 35 minutes ten times.

Agree with most except.....Mac should not get Kyle's minutes, if anything Mac and Kyle should be in with Byron to give Gary and KP some blow. I also agree with the NUNEZ thoughts...I was thinking the same thing. He's the only guy on the team big enough and quick enough to slow down Colinsworth....probably wouldn't have worked but, worth a try. I realize that Angel hasn't worked out as hoped for but, I'd be damed if I'd let an athlete like him set on the bench while we're getting schooled. Just tell the guy to do his best Dennis Rodman imitation. Even in a zone "d"....it would be tough to shoot over him. Pitino recruited him for a reason....he's a stud athlete.

zagfan1
03-01-2015, 06:34 PM
I am hoping this loss will substitute for the loss we usually have in game two of the ncaa tournament. This was a tough one to swallow. Glad those of you were able to sleep well. We have such a deep bench for us to be tiring out. Kentucky is still going strong. Why can't we do the same thing? Hopefully the team uses this pain as motivation. This week we are going to hear a lot about Arizona and Villanova. Maybe either one of them or both lose. I am hoping Virginia will lose this week to Louisville. Maybe North Carolina will get revenge against Duke as well. Finally, maybe St Johns does us a favor and beats Villanova. I know a lot of you did not like Mac with Pangos. I liked it because I want Pangos shooting more. The lineup that I am really enamored by is Mac, Pangos, Wes, Sabonis, and Shem. Let Bell spell Pangos and Melson spell Mac. Let KW sub for Sabonis and KD sub for Wesley. I don't think Nunez gets in the game cause he is not good with the offensive game flow. Finally, another lineup which might be interesting would be Mac, Bell, Melson, Wesley, and Shem. Final thought on Saturdays game. KW and Bell need to be more aggressive. Outside of Bell's one three I didn't see it from both of them. We can't have that and expect to go far in the tournament. The good news is that I think Sabonis is learning how to play defense and Wesley is doing more slashing. Cheers to a week of upsets.

Outraged
03-01-2015, 07:20 PM
I am hoping this loss will substitute for the loss we usually have in game two of the ncaa tournament. This was a tough one to swallow. Glad those of you were able to sleep well. We have such a deep bench for us to be tiring out. Kentucky is still going strong. Why can't we do the same thing? Hopefully the team uses this pain as motivation. This week we are going to hear a lot about Arizona and Villanova. Maybe either one of them or both lose. I am hoping Virginia will lose this week to Louisville. Maybe North Carolina will get revenge against Duke as well. Finally, maybe St Johns does us a favor and beats Villanova. I know a lot of you did not like Mac with Pangos. I liked it because I want Pangos shooting more. The lineup that I am really enamored by is Mac, Pangos, Wes, Sabonis, and Shem. Let Bell spell Pangos and Melson spell Mac. Let KW sub for Sabonis and KD sub for Wesley. I don't think Nunez gets in the game cause he is not good with the offensive game flow. Finally, another lineup which might be interesting would be Mac, Bell, Melson, Wesley, and Shem. Final thought on Saturdays game. KW and Bell need to be more aggressive. Outside of Bell's one three I didn't see it from both of them. We can't have that and expect to go far in the tournament. The good news is that I think Sabonis is learning how to play defense and Wesley is doing more slashing. Cheers to a week of upsets.

I am not upset with this loss as much as the other losses BYU and the WCC had in the preseason. I have been surprised at how good the other WCC teams are this year compared to prior years. I think the media has the other WCC teams labeled as cream puffs.

DixieZag
03-01-2015, 07:21 PM
I hope it motivates the coaches, too. Hope they open things up a bit, try some new line-ups, new sets, defenses. I think that is healthy.

Reborn
03-01-2015, 10:30 PM
I am hoping this loss will substitute for the loss we usually have in game two of the ncaa tournament. This was a tough one to swallow. Glad those of you were able to sleep well. We have such a deep bench for us to be tiring out. Kentucky is still going strong. Why can't we do the same thing? Hopefully the team uses this pain as motivation. This week we are going to hear a lot about Arizona and Villanova. Maybe either one of them or both lose. I am hoping Virginia will lose this week to Louisville. Maybe North Carolina will get revenge against Duke as well. Finally, maybe St Johns does us a favor and beats Villanova. I know a lot of you did not like Mac with Pangos. I liked it because I want Pangos shooting more. The lineup that I am really enamored by is Mac, Pangos, Wes, Sabonis, and Shem. Let Bell spell Pangos and Melson spell Mac. Let KW sub for Sabonis and KD sub for Wesley. I don't think Nunez gets in the game cause he is not good with the offensive game flow. Finally, another lineup which might be interesting would be Mac, Bell, Melson, Wesley, and Shem. Final thought on Saturdays game. KW and Bell need to be more aggressive. Outside of Bell's one three I didn't see it from both of them. We can't have that and expect to go far in the tournament. The good news is that I think Sabonis is learning how to play defense and Wesley is doing more slashing. Cheers to a week of upsets.

Your dreamin about the lineup changes. Mark Few does not make those kinds of changes. And as we saw the 4 guard team did not pull out the vicotry for one reason. No one in that line-up could handle Collinsworth on the boards. He is 6'7" and is tough on the inside. I hope Few noticed it, and we don't see it again. Karno, imo did not play enough, and I think he's going to be much better for it. He needs to get back to playing tough and mean. He is hurting us. It's a fact. I'm sure Wiltjer had the flu. I hope he recovers by next Saturday. That darn flu bug is responsible for all this.

Like you, I also feel that we got the sticker out of the way. It's really tough to keep on winning the way the Zags did. What was it 21 or 22 wins in a row. I know the team set a school record. Congrats Zags for that. Now, as in the past, our team will begin another nice string of victories that I hope will reach 8 or 9? When you think about it the Zags can do that. That's not too many any a row for this team. I think it's perfect for these guys. They like winning streaks and so do I. I'm a Zag!

Go Zags!!!

Zags11
03-01-2015, 11:03 PM
It was tough but it is what it is. We will bounce back and go deep in march.

WallaWallaZag
03-02-2015, 12:03 AM
i'm curious as to what happened to wiltjer this weekend??? ...flu bug...nba draft bug??? i've never seen him this bad. zags probably can't survive good teams if both him and pangos are off unless the other guys are having absolutely great games...only wesley and sabonis played good enough to win against byu imo...mac & dranginis too, but right now they're really bench/role players and not game changers.

MDABE80
03-02-2015, 01:06 AM
I suspect Horford guarded Kevin so closely, he couldn't get ball in to the bigs, He didn't shoot much and surely didnt have much success. BYU played exceptionally good defense the whole game. Defense wins....moreso at this time of the year.

TexasZagFan
03-02-2015, 05:33 AM
i'm curious as to what happened to wiltjer this weekend??? ...flu bug...nba draft bug??? i've never seen him this bad. zags probably can't survive good teams if both him and pangos are off unless the other guys are having absolutely great games...only wesley and sabonis played good enough to win against byu imo...mac & dranginis too, but right now they're really bench/role players and not game changers.

SI Cover Jinx

Bogozags
03-02-2015, 06:39 AM
SI Cover Jinx

YES, that's it! Thanks...completely forgot about it BUT when it was posted here I thought of it then...so we're good from here on out! :)

RenoZag
03-02-2015, 07:32 AM
There's a corkboard above my credenza where the Gonzaga basketball schedule resides from late October to the start of the WCC tournament. That space is empty now, signalling the beginning of the end of another season.

The Saturday night loss to BYU felt as bad as some of the NCAA Big Dance losses. It shouldn't. Season isn't over. Vegas awaits. Selection Sunday is 13 days away. Zags are 29 - 2.

Still, there was something about the way they lost that bothered me and put me in a foul funk all day Sunday.

And you ?

gonzagafan62
03-02-2015, 07:32 AM
YES, that's it! Thanks...completely forgot about it BUT when it was posted here I thought of it then...so we're good from here on out! :)

At least it wasn't march like they usually do to us.

WallaWallaZag
03-02-2015, 07:33 AM
YES, that's it! Thanks...completely forgot about it BUT when it was posted here I thought of it then...so we're good from here on out! :)

why are we good from here on out??? does the si cover jinx have an expiration date?

RenoZag
03-02-2015, 07:34 AM
why are we good from here on out??? does the si cover jinx have an expiration date?

I think it has about the same shelf life as whole milk

amaronizag
03-02-2015, 07:56 AM
We don't have a way to stop Collingsworth except plugging the paint with a zone. The only guy we have that's big enough and athletic enough to have a chance guarding him is NUNEZ. If Few didn't try throwing Nunez at Collingsworth last night, then there is no hope he will see the court again so if I was Nunez, I would graduate by the end of the summer and transfer. End of story. As for our high offensive efficiency, ya that's great, but we can't sustain that against the high caliber defenses of top 25 teams. You have put generate enough shots to outscore your opponent regardless of your efficiency on a given night. If you don't put up enough shots, you lose. We aren't getting the shots in the air.

Zagdawg
03-02-2015, 08:30 AM
Sounds pretty simple....hope Few reads you post and turns the season around.


;)

amaronizag
03-02-2015, 08:37 AM
It's really that simple, you score more points and you win. What's difficult is figuring out how to do that. We didn't Saturday night, and barely did in February, but must get it figured out fast........or..........

Zagceo
03-02-2015, 09:37 AM
So the consensus by the coach, team and fan base seems to point to a lack of aggression as the basis for zags lackluster play against BYU and maybe others.

They say teams take on the coaches demeanor some of the time.

How many believe Coach Few exudes aggression?

Zagdawg
03-02-2015, 09:51 AM
Sabonis is having a good laugh at this one-- players have their own demeanor.

Hoopaholic
03-02-2015, 09:54 AM
So the consensus by the coach, team and fan base seems to point to a lack of aggression as the basis for zags lackluster play against BYU and maybe others.

They say teams take on the coaches demeanor some of the time.

How many believe Coach Few exudes aggression?

Do you think Coach K exudes aggression while on the bench?

My guess is Few is much like Coach K and holds that type of emotions for behind closed doors

DixieZag
03-02-2015, 09:54 AM
So the consensus by the coach, team and fan base seems to point to a lack of aggression as the basis for zags lackluster play against BYU and maybe others.

They say teams take on the coaches demeanor some of the time.

How many believe Coach Few exudes aggression?

Good post.

Aggressive play also involves risk-taking.

I do believe that getting thumped up against the head at this point in the season, might well lead to the necessary soul-searching.

I hope, and I think it can/will happen, that Few looks at the recent past and decides this team is too good to play it safe holding them back a little, and take some risks they didn't do in the past.

Zagceo
03-02-2015, 10:09 AM
Do you think Coach K exudes aggression while on the bench?

My guess is Few is much like Coach K and holds that type of emotions for behind closed doors

Whatever you think right or wrong do you think chastising KW for making a basket at the end of a game could take a little aggression out of KW play?

DixieZag
03-02-2015, 10:12 AM
Do you think Coach K exudes aggression while on the bench?

Yes.

There are millions of occasions when Few's calming nature worked perfectly. And, I don't think there's any conflict between a calming presence and yet asking for moe aggressive play and risk-taking.

rennis
03-02-2015, 10:27 AM
I'm really bummed the loss happened at home, but I don't feel that bad about the loss otherwise. If this had happened on BYU's floor, I'd damn near appreciate the wake up call. As others have said, the media hype was getting obnoxious. Too much #1 seed talk, Final Four talk, sports illustrated covers, "best team ever at GU" and general smoke blowing that was probably bringing the team down competitively. It's hard to play through adversity when one half of your brain feels anointed.

I'm SO excited to see how they bounce back from this. I feel like this will be a different conversation if they don't beat BYU in Vegas, but I think they will. And I think it's going to be a great spring-board into the tournament. It's an opportunity to clear their heads, evaluate how they're playing in the half court on offense, and take it to the next level that we all know they are capable of.

I don't see many people complaining about defense, despite some really weird lapses in the first half. I think there were some really lucky bounces that went BYU's way in that game. Karno blocks two shots in the paint, and BYU gets two 3 points shots out of each. 90% of games, that just doesn't happen. As much as the Zags are struggling at times on offense the defense really appears capable of hanging with any style, speed, and size we are going to find in the NCAAs. Most years, you can't really say that about GU.

Vanzagger
03-02-2015, 10:28 AM
Agree with most except.....Mac should not get Kyle's minutes, if anything Mac and Kyle should be in with Byron to give Gary and KP some blow. I also agree with the NUNEZ thoughts...I was thinking the same thing. He's the only guy on the team big enough and quick enough to slow down Colinsworth....probably wouldn't have worked but, worth a try. I realize that Angel hasn't worked out as hoped for but, I'd be damed if I'd let an athlete like him set on the bench while we're getting schooled. Just tell the guy to do his best Dennis Rodman imitation. Even in a zone "d"....it would be tough to shoot over him. Pitino recruited him for a reason....he's a stud athlete.

Good stuff 77

seacatfan
03-02-2015, 10:41 AM
Do you think Coach K exudes aggression while on the bench?

My guess is Few is much like Coach K and holds that type of emotions for behind closed doors

How many Duke games have you watched? Coach K is well known for going absolutely bonkers on the sideline when the game is going sideways for his team. His demeanor and Few's aren't even remotely similar. I'm shocked that anyone would try to draw a comparison between Few and K. K is well known in ACC circles for berating and riding the officials constantly during games. Has Few ever done that? K is also all about running up the score, there's no taking the foot off the gas pedal for him.

Angelo Roncalli
03-02-2015, 10:42 AM
How many believe Coach Few exudes aggression?

Last time I looked, Kevin Stallings' and Don Verlin's teams weren't going to make the NCAA tournament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Ufht3qqOg

http://deadspin.com/idaho-basketball-coach-flips-out-at-assistant-throws-p-1687303336

Zagdawg
03-02-2015, 10:49 AM
Whatever you think right or wrong do you think chastising KW for making a basket at the end of a game could take a little aggression out of KW play?

KW already agreed that this was wrong and that he was upset at a fan on the sidelines -- so try a different example.

KW is plenty aggressive when he wants to be---as we saw in the San Diego game. He was fired up/emotional and going after it.

Zagceo
03-02-2015, 10:52 AM
Bench demeanor is only a part of the equation IMO.

When a player like Silas goes hunting shots or makes an aggressive close out on shooter and gets benched for a mistake what signal does that send?……be more or less aggressive next time?

Zagdawg
03-02-2015, 10:55 AM
Like fouling a 3 point shooter--leading to a 4 point play? Or jacking up a well contested 3 from NBA range--4 seconds into a shot clock? I would hope he would be less aggressive and work on his spacing and hunting a good shot -- called a learning experience.

bartruff1
03-02-2015, 10:56 AM
John Wooden...was....just a wild man....

Zagceo
03-02-2015, 11:27 AM
Jim Meehan ‏@SRJimm
Pangos: "They were more aggressive and scrappier. Made it tough for us on offense and we couldn’t get a rebound on defense."

Jim Meehan ‏@SRJimm
Few: "They were far and away the most aggressive team. Anytime there was 50-50 ball or rebound to be had, they’d go get it."

Jim Meehan ‏@SRJimm
Few: "We need to get back to being the aggressor. This time of year the more aggressive team is going to win."

How do you coach aggressive behavior or make an adjustment at halftime to be more aggressive? Honest question.

Is it more a character trait some are born with like Mike Hart and Domas Sabonis?

Should aggressive behavior have more weight in analyzing recruits?

Bad shooting nights happen why do bad aggressive nights happen?

another article LINK (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/01/did-gonzaga-cost-themselves-a-no-1-seed-with-loss-to-byu/related/)

gonzagafan62
03-02-2015, 11:47 AM
How do you coach aggressive behavior or make an adjustment at halftime to be more aggressive? Honest question.

Is it more a character trait some are born with like Mike Hart and Domas Sabonis?

Should aggressive behavior have more weight in analyzing recruits?

Bad shooting nights happen why do bad aggressive nights happen?

another article LINK (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/01/did-gonzaga-cost-themselves-a-no-1-seed-with-loss-to-byu/related/)

What we need to do to be the aggressor and still fit in our offense: have pangos go to the basket and get easy points. I've always wondered why we don't do this more. Get cheap points like Tyler haws does. I think this would be critical to build up a lead quietly in the dance. Pangos is money on the line. We have a slasher in eMac and Wesley too, but of we are legitly wanting to be aggressive why not use this tactic too?

Hoopaholic
03-02-2015, 12:44 PM
How many Duke games have you watched? Coach K is well known for going absolutely bonkers on the sideline when the game is going sideways for his team. His demeanor and Few's aren't even remotely similar. I'm shocked that anyone would try to draw a comparison between Few and K. K is well known in ACC circles for berating and riding the officials constantly during games. Has Few ever done that? K is also all about running up the score, there's no taking the foot off the gas pedal for him.

ummmm yes.....watch few he works the ref's just as much, but with arms folded but he is working them....I have a friend who is Pac12/WCC ref and he "HATES" rotating into the bench because of few knawing on his ear non-stop.........

Hoopaholic
03-02-2015, 12:45 PM
Whatever you think right or wrong do you think chastising KW for making a basket at the end of a game could take a little aggression out of KW play?

no it was a teaching moment that had to do with sportmanship versus aggressive play in the 40 minute context.......

surfmonkey89
03-02-2015, 04:18 PM
How many believe Coach Few exudes aggression?

The most angry I've seen Few during his entire career as our coach, by far, was at his own player for dunking at the end of a game. And then, he even made the player call the coach and two players of the other team and apologize.

When I expect to see him angry, he's usually squatting on the sidelines with his hands clasped between his knees.

seacatfan
03-02-2015, 07:38 PM
ummmm yes.....watch few he works the ref's just as much, but with arms folded but he is working them....I have a friend who is Pac12/WCC ref and he "HATES" rotating into the bench because of few knawing on his ear non-stop.........

Okay, then he's very stealthy in his ref baiting because I sure don't notice it on TV. Anyway I still think K and Few are very different in their demeanor. I was responding to the idea of how aggressive the Zags play and how demonstrative/emotional Few is on the sideline. There is a huge difference between Few and K in that department.

WallaWallaZag
03-02-2015, 08:25 PM
i was reading this thread while watching a replay of the byu game and it suddenly hit me...unless pangos is at the top of his game shooting and scoring, this version of the zags will go as far as karnowski can take them...don't get me wrong now, pangos needs to run the offense and wiltjer needs to score, but when the zags are playing at their best this year it seems to be when karnowski isn't missing bunnies and playing frustrated but is instead dominating the paint and having a lot of the offense run through him.

Reborn
03-02-2015, 08:33 PM
I was, and am still, shocked that he didn't get to play hardly at all in the second half of the game. I know Few loves Sabonis, but Karnowski has done so much for Gonzaga these last two years. I hope he had the flu. That would be a legitimate excuse for holding him out. Rose really had his team ready to play. And he seems to have figured out a way to beat the Zags. What will Mark Few do now? His move. I'm so excited for the rematch.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

DixieZag
03-02-2015, 08:39 PM
I was, and am still, shocked that he didn't get to play hardly at all in the second half of the game. I know Few loves Sabonis, but Karnowski has done so much for Gonzaga these last two years. I hope he had the flu. That would be a legitimate excuse for holding him out. Rose really had his team ready to play. And he seems to have figured out a way to beat the Zags. What will Mark Few do now? His move. I'm so excited for the rematch.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

Maybe for defense, but, if I recall, he was playing slow, tentative, not catching cleanly, and missing the bunnies in the first half. I really don't know whether his defense is worth him being in there anyway.

I wish we had heated up from outside.

Reborn
03-02-2015, 08:45 PM
Maybe for defense, but, if I recall, he was playing slow, tentative, not catching cleanly, and missing the bunnies in the first half. I really don't know whether his defense is worth him being in there anyway.

I wish we had heated up from outside.

Well Collinsworth cleaned our clocks. That's the way I see it. We had no one inside who could keep him off the boards. He is 6' 7" and tougher then nails. If Few goes with this 4 guard offense again, i wouldn't be surprised to see BYU beat us again. If my memory is right, Karno hit our first two baskets of the second half. The Zags' Bigs need to get ready for a war. Pure and simple. I am definitely NOT giving up on the guys who got us to 29-1. They'll be back. Wiltjer too. Kyle knows what he needs to do. Sabonis is crazy tough with lots of energy, but he's a freshman, and he got the jitters in that game. He really missed a lot of free throws. He and Karno need to stop missing so many inside shots and come to play, for real.

Go Zags!!!

cjm720
03-02-2015, 10:11 PM
Close loss. BYU had more determination from the beginning. The team is very talented and proved it. Personally I think this loss is a good thing, hopefully will light a fire...last few games have not been the best. Feel bad for the seniors...still time to really put a stamp on the program.

Unbiased
03-02-2015, 11:08 PM
Well Collinsworth cleaned our clocks. ......" He is 6' 7" and tougher then nails. Go Zags!!!

He's not 6'7." I have stood next to him a couple of times. 6' 5" tops.
With that said, he is all business and a heckava hard charging aggressive player.

ZagsGoZags
03-03-2015, 12:01 AM
the same announcer referred to Byron Wesley as 6'6"

Birddog
03-03-2015, 07:17 AM
Close loss. BYU had more determination from the beginning. The team is very talented and proved it. Personally I think this loss is a good thing, hopefully will light a fire...last few games have not been the best. Feel bad for the seniors...still time to really put a stamp on the program.

From the opening tip, BYU looked more aggressive, more active, and definitely had more "want it". BY comparison, the Zags almost looked lethargic, especially on the glass. By the time they realized that they were in a dogfight and might lose, they seemed to play more frantically and that loss of composure cost them in the TO dept. Maybe it will turn out to be a good lesson. It didn't help that all those shots didn't fall, but I chalk a lot of that up to BYU's defense.

From here on in, the team can't have Karno missing 2 footers. It's not a new problem and it has to be corrected if the Zags want to make it into a 2nd weekend and if Karno wants to play in the NBA. Just my opinion!

gonzagafan62
03-03-2015, 07:21 AM
Height is not a thing I am good at. Neither is weight..... Unless we are weighing a ton of bricks vs a ton of feathers. Then I can tell you they weigh the same.

bartruff1
03-03-2015, 07:25 AM
It is a new season...it's MARCH...and the Madness is about to start......

LongIslandZagFan
03-03-2015, 07:32 AM
Whatever you think right or wrong do you think chastising KW for making a basket at the end of a game could take a little aggression out of KW play?

No... it is called teaching him to be a proper man... which is far more important than a game. If you think any other coach would not do the same thing... you are crazy. Did you see the kerfuffle surrounding Vandy's coach when he got upset with a player showing poor sportsmanship at the end of a game?

LongIslandZagFan
03-03-2015, 07:36 AM
JMHO, this was coming 5 games ago. They have been playing bored. They had been taking the games for granted that they'd win in the end without having to put the effort in. Even the SMC comeback never should have been a comeback at all. Now, with that said, this is EXACTLY what they needed going into the WCC tourney and the NCAAs as well. A sharp wake-up call. Lord have pity on winner of the Pacific/USF match up.

gonzagafan62
03-03-2015, 07:40 AM
JMHO, this was coming 5 games ago. They have been playing bored. They had been taking the games for granted that they'd win in the end without having to put the effort in. Even the SMC comeback never should have been a comeback at all. Now, with that said, this is EXACTLY what they needed going into the WCC tourney and the NCAAs as well. A sharp wake-up call. Lord have pity on winner of the Pacific/USF match up.

Yes. Now if they struggle in that one (which I fully expect them to come out angry) .... then THEN we can worry.

JPtheBeasta
03-03-2015, 07:48 AM
Height is not a thing I am good at. Neither is weight..... Unless we are weighing a ton of bricks vs a ton of feathers. Then I can tell you they weigh the same.

What!? It looks like you don't do math nearly as well as these guys:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onkbubwAqRQ&feature=player_embedded

gonzagafan62
03-03-2015, 07:53 AM
What!? It looks like you don't do math nearly as well as these guys:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onkbubwAqRQ&feature=player_embedded

:roll:

I love that scene!

EDIT: I spit in thy general direction of the total hypocrisy

DixieZag
03-03-2015, 08:28 AM
Yes. Now if they struggle in that one (which I fully expect them to come out angry) .... then THEN we can worry.

Like this years version of when David needed to bail us out with a game winning lay-up?

DixieZag
03-03-2015, 08:31 AM
JMHO, this was coming 5 games ago. They have been playing bored. They had been taking the games for granted that they'd win in the end without having to put the effort in. Even the SMC comeback never should have been a comeback at all. Now, with that said, this is EXACTLY what they needed going into the WCC tourney and the NCAAs as well. A sharp wake-up call. Lord have pity on winner of the Pacific/USF match up.

Plus one. This board gets a lot of things wrong, but the people that noted the problems were dead right. SMC right should have served as the wake up call, it should not have required an actual loss. But even that didn't work. Senior night alone should have been enough.

One can only hope that they don't think they can take the first one easy and gear up for the second and third games of the tourney. Hope this turns into a positive.

Zagceo
03-03-2015, 08:58 AM
Toughness has nothing to do with size, physical strength or athleticism. Some players may be born tough, but I believe that toughness is a skill, and it is a skill that can be developed and improved. Michigan State coach Tom Izzo always says, "Players play, but tough players win." He is right. Here are some of the ways true toughness is exhibited inbasketball:


Bilas has a quote painted on the Zags locker room ………maybe they could use some of the extra time in practice analyzing the Bilas theory of toughness in a classroom setting. LINK (http://www.mdbball.com/Documents/ToughnessbyJayBilas.pdf)

gonzagafan62
03-03-2015, 09:13 AM
Like this years version of when David needed to bail us out with a game winning lay-up?

Exactly. Although we all knew Santa Clara was a matchup problem, and subsequently killed SMC and BYU in the remaining two games. I know what you are talking about though, and yes, exactly.

Go Pacific. Beat the Dons.

zagfan1
03-03-2015, 09:33 AM
Toughness has nothing to do with size, physical strength or athleticism. Some players may be born tough, but I believe that toughness is a skill, and it is a skill that can be developed and improved. Michigan State coach Tom Izzo always says, "Players play, but tough players win." He is right. Here are some of the ways true toughness is exhibited inbasketball:

I love this quote. I really believe if Gonzaga wants to commit to playing hard for a full 40 minutes they have a chance to be special. It really dumbfounds me to think the team would actually let themselves get bored. True Champions find ways to continue to improve and refine their game. They should not be content with their play.

I wish the team could take a quick trip to Kentucky, Virginia, or Villanova (as a scrimmage) to get a sense of where they are at and what they need to do to improve.

I want everyone to play with a chip on their shoulder. They should start now. Pangos and Bell have a choice. To flame out (like they have done every other year) or to just give it their all and put some emotion into it. Thats what we all love from the prior teams. Heck, I will take Morrison crying over an expressionless reaction to being down by 10 or 15 points. Motivation is needed at this point.

bballbeachbum
03-03-2015, 04:30 PM
i was reading this thread while watching a replay of the byu game and it suddenly hit me...unless pangos is at the top of his game shooting and scoring, this version of the zags will go as far as karnowski can take them...don't get me wrong now, pangos needs to run the offense and wiltjer needs to score, but when the zags are playing at their best this year it seems to be when karnowski isn't missing bunnies and playing frustrated but is instead dominating the paint and having a lot of the offense run through him.

I hear what you're saying but they miss Karno on D the most, don't you think? the issue is what to do when opponents spread him out, him and KW, and start attacking those two off the bounce. need to go zone or something to mitigate that. IMHO, that's what sent Karno to the bench, not missed layups; Rose and BYU forced the Zags to adjust defensively to what they were doing instead of the other way around, which is not how it's been in the other games; GU makes other teams adjust to them but not Saturday. BYU used offensive pressure to dictate the course of the game

anyway, without Karno protecting the rim the Zag D doesn't seem as tough to me

ZagsGoZags
03-03-2015, 05:04 PM
"Toughness has nothing to do with size, physical strength or athleticism. Some players may be born tough, but I believe that toughness is a skill, and it is a skill that can be developed and improved. Michigan State coach Tom Izzo always says, "Players play, but tough players win." He is right."

Evidence can be Dennis Rodman 6'7" and Charles Barkley 6'6" a couple of the best rebounders in recent NBA history, both outrebounding bigger, stronger, and sometimes quicker men.

In my mind, another bit of evidence is the transformation of gentleman Kelly into one of the two "NASTY" men 2 and 1/2 years ago. Elias already was.

RenoZag
03-03-2015, 07:21 PM
Article in the Salt Lake Tribune:

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2244759-155/college-basketball-be-grateful-byu-fans


If the Cougars dance later this month, they should spring for pizza for the Kennel, because without the Zags' lofty ranking and national profile, the win wouldn't have bumped their RPI to 37 or so, where it is now.

Ungrateful BYU fans should also consider the format of the WCC Tournament.

It begins on Thursday for the women and Friday for the men at Las Vegas' Orleans Arena, which fits the WCC just fine and is better than it appears to be on TV.

All four men's quarterfinals are Saturday. Both tournaments go dark on Sunday before Monday's four semifinals and Tuesday's two championship games.

Yes, no games on Sunday.

You think fans of the other nine schools in the league like paying hotel, food, rental car and entertainment bills for that extra day? Do administrators like footing the bill for their teams to stay, and not play an entire day, if they make the semifinals?

Of course not.

But they do it for BYU, which doesn't play on Sundays.

That accommodation alone should convince fans that the WCC did BYU a favor, and continues to do so, after the Cougars left the Mountain West Conference and went independent in football.

Zag 77
03-03-2015, 09:16 PM
Reno, don't the McCarthey family still own the Salt Lake Tribune? That quote was right on target. I wonder if the MCCartheys partake of this board?

Oregonzagnut
03-03-2015, 09:17 PM
The WCC has its own style of play and it is improving steadily. BYU brings with it that "style" of play and continuity from LaDell Anderson, Roger Reid, Steve Cleveland on through to Dave Rose. For what it is worth, both BYU and Pacific has evolved on a different tree branch than the other WCC teams. I think there was a thread on this in the past but getting that "DNA" from the Mountain West and the Big West is going to be a big part of Gonzaga or any WCC team going to the FF in the future. Although pretty much every other conference did this too within the last few years.

RenoZag
03-03-2015, 09:22 PM
Reno, don't the McCarthey family still own the Salt Lake Tribune? That quote was right on target. I wonder if the MCCartheys partake of this board?

You can look it up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salt_Lake_Tribune

bballbeachbum
03-04-2015, 10:03 AM
"Toughness has nothing to do with size, physical strength or athleticism. Some players may be born tough, but I believe that toughness is a skill, and it is a skill that can be developed and improved. Michigan State coach Tom Izzo always says, "Players play, but tough players win." He is right."

Evidence can be Dennis Rodman 6'7" and Charles Barkley 6'6" a couple of the best rebounders in recent NBA history, both outrebounding bigger, stronger, and sometimes quicker men.

In my mind, another bit of evidence is the transformation of gentleman Kelly into one of the two "NASTY" men 2 and 1/2 years ago. Elias already was.

hey man, not sure if this was posted as a reply to my statement that Zag D is tougher with Karno protecting the rim or not, but I'll bite.

Yes, Karno is huge. No, just because he's huge does not make him tough. Yes, the Zags are tougher with Karno protecting the rim as it makes everyone else better defensively (especially the perimeter guys)

anyway, Izzo was my man whose stuff we tried to emulate on the court, before I got hooked on Few and the flex back then

SwainZag
03-04-2015, 11:48 AM
Toughness has nothing to do with size, physical strength or athleticism. Some players may be born tough, but I believe that toughness is a skill, and it is a skill that can be developed and improved. Michigan State coach Tom Izzo always says, "Players play, but tough players win." He is right. Here are some of the ways true toughness is exhibited inbasketball:

I love this quote. I really believe if Gonzaga wants to commit to playing hard for a full 40 minutes they have a chance to be special. It really dumbfounds me to think the team would actually let themselves get bored. True Champions find ways to continue to improve and refine their game. They should not be content with their play.

I wish the team could take a quick trip to Kentucky, Virginia, or Villanova (as a scrimmage) to get a sense of where they are at and what they need to do to improve.

I want everyone to play with a chip on their shoulder. They should start now. Pangos and Bell have a choice. To flame out (like they have done every other year) or to just give it their all and put some emotion into it. Thats what we all love from the prior teams. Heck, I will take Morrison crying over an expressionless reaction to being down by 10 or 15 points. Motivation is needed at this point.

I absolutely hate that comment. They played a very, very good Ohio St team and took them down to the wire when they were Freshman, lost to a Wichita team who decided to go unconscious in the last 5 minutes and soundly got beaten by a very, very good Arizona team while several players were fighting through injuries. Sure, call the WSU loss a flame out, but to me flaming out every year is going in with huge expectations and losing to teams you should not be losing to.