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GrizZAG
02-21-2015, 04:33 AM
As our Zags near the tournaments the often discussed inability to defend the 3 comes to mind. (i.e., Witchita State nightmare).
It seems we are doing a better job this year and have not been burned too badly by teams getting hot from outside the arc, but the Pacific game got my attention.
Much has been written about defending the 3 and strategies to do so as a team, but I would be most interested to hear some input from you on this topic and how we look in this department this year. For myself it seems to be a spacing issue at times. We simply are not defending close enough and come in too late to do much thus fouling the shooter at too high of a rate. Not as bad as some years past, but still a concern. Too often our opponent has plenty of space to just get set and let it fly.

jazzdelmar
02-21-2015, 04:44 AM
Much less worried about defending the 3. We have more size now on the backline. Much more worried about the press. Pangos is just an above average ball handler and the jury is still out on Mac. The rest of the guards are poor to mediocre against even WCC guards. KD booted one away unforced last game, for example. In the round of 32 we will face 6-4 guards with quicks. Think about that. Bless his heart, we could use DS now. Only problem, Few would start him. :)

Hoopaholic
02-21-2015, 06:24 AM
my only concern is defending an athletic good power forward who has two good guards on the court at same time.....that is our only achilles heel imo

GrizZAG
02-21-2015, 06:33 AM
Does anyone else see the spacing issue? Seems like we aren't playing the perimeter close enough at times. ??

rennis
02-21-2015, 08:32 AM
Does anyone else see the spacing issue? Seems like we aren't playing the perimeter close enough at times. ??

Help D. It's by design.

How many 3s did Pacific get on 2nd chance looks? I'm far more concerned with being beat on the boards by a smaller team then I am with man defense on the perimeter, at least in this instance.

GrizZAG
02-21-2015, 09:00 AM
Quote from 12 steps to defending the three. Yes it is by design. Just don't want to get burned again as in the past...an area many have voiced concern over for a long time.

#2) " Play no help defense. Assign your best defensive player to the great 3-point shooter and do not give help with that defender, eliminating many of the easy and quick ways to set up a 3-point shooter. Penetration is one of the easiest set-ups for a 3-point shot and not helping takes that option away. In effect, the defense is playing a box and one."
Don't know if the guy knows what he is talking about but this from him.. Coach Sivils

I have just noticed the teams that lock down our three point shooters and how close they defend not giving our daggers an opening to get one off.

HenneZag
02-21-2015, 09:22 AM
Pacific played well last game, got alot of second chance points as they out rebounded us, and they made the most of it and shot the ball very well, we were lucky Wiltjer was on. Pangos didn't have to do much scoring, not sure if he had a bucket all game other than FT's. This team is built off balance so I just hope we can don't start relying on one guy.

Another thing, I think EM plays fantastic Defense. When he came in the game against Pacific we started to pull away, in the 2nd half I don't remember him playing, I may be wrong. I would like to see him tonight some more just for defense alone. He has unreal speed but IMO hasn't done much on the offensive end while utilizing that at this point, hoping that can change.

If we limit SM on the 3, which we were fortunate they shot horribly last game cause they had many open looks I think we will be ok. Waldow and Karn will battle, Sabonis needs to have a good game tonight. If we can attack Waldow and get him in foul trouble early SM will struggle as they can't match our depth.

Bring home the Championship tonight fellas!

Mantua
02-21-2015, 11:13 AM
It's more a question of awareness. We need to keep up the help side defense, blocking out and rebounding while keeping an eye on three point shooters. It shouldn't be such a problem until we play teams that match our depth and talent.

jim77
02-21-2015, 11:22 AM
Does anyone else see the spacing issue? Seems like we aren't playing the perimeter close enough at times. ??

Exactly.

Camping out on the 3 point line isn't enough....the defense needs to be about 3 feet beyond the arc....unless the team shooting is a KNOWN poor 3 point shooting team. If we get too spread out it will enable them to attack our bigs.

The Zags are probably the best shooting team in America....we can give up a few 3's and weather it. To me its more important that we don't get into an athletic contest....by chasing quicker athletes around and pretending that we got an all world defense. Lets play to OUR strengths .....if we get in with an athletic team like say.... Kentucky.....we don't go man because they thrive on man coverage and WILL exploit it. Instead, we pack it in and say: Beat us with the 3....and protect our bigs. Manning up an athletic team is playing right into their hands.

Watched any teams bust up a zone D lately? No? Neither have I...in fact, I usually see a confused team when it happens. Know what else happens? The shooting team usually doesn't get a second shot...cause the bigs are already there....not out chasing a player who is DRAWING them away from the hoop OR trying to get them into foul trouble. SEE Pacific.

The Zags best strategy is to make a game a shooting contest....lets see if you're shooters are better than ours? Most ain't. Getting run all over the court by the opposing offense is the other teams best weapon against us....we need to SYRACUSE them.

Do we have a bad defense.....NO...we have a very good defense....as long as we have the physical advantage. Tonight against ST Mary's we have the better athletes and can go after them....and we should. The third weekend in March will be different.

Today scoring is down in college BB..some of it is the lack of great shooters. The game has been "gooned" up a bit. Its become a lot of teams strategy to make up for the fact that they can't shoot by being physical...KY...Louisville....you get it. We need to play our game...not play theirs. We gave up waay to many 3 buckets against Pacific but, we showed them we WILL win a scoring contest. Pacific also got our BIGS in trouble because of the TYPE of defense we were playing....we loose those bigs in the tourney..we go home. GO Zags! Our defense IS good enough if we play our game.

The Zags are better off running the shot clock down and letting the other team chase us for 30 seconds every trip up the court. We might even find out that teams like DUKE don't have the depth to play US in a game like that...a lot of teams don't have our depth...good teams. I also think Few should come out from the get go and play zone...and see if the other team has what it takes. Instead of building the other teams confidence by exploiting us....I feel zone should be the FIRST option against some teams ..... not waiting till we're in trouble.

U Zig, I Zag
02-21-2015, 01:08 PM
Exactly.

Camping out on the 3 point line isn't enough....the defense needs to be about 3 feet beyond the arc....unless the team shooting is a KNOWN poor 3 point shooting team. If we get too spread out it will enable them to attack our bigs.

The Zags are probably the best shooting team in America....we can give up a few 3's and weather it. To me its more important that we don't get into an athletic contest....by chasing quicker athletes around and pretending that we got an all world defense. Lets play to OUR strengths .....if we get in with an athletic team like say.... Kentucky.....we don't go man because they thrive on man coverage and WILL exploit it. Instead, we pack it in and say: Beat us with the 3....and protect our bigs. Manning up an athletic team is playing right into their hands.

Watched any teams bust up a zone D lately? No? Neither have I...in fact, I usually see a confused team when it happens. Know what else happens? The shooting team usually doesn't get a second shot...cause the bigs are already there....not out chasing a player who is DRAWING them away from the hoop OR trying to get them into foul trouble. SEE Pacific.

The Zags best strategy is to make a game a shooting contest....lets see if you're shooters are better than ours? Most ain't. Getting run all over the court by the opposing offense is the other teams best weapon against us....we need to SYRACUSE them.

Do we have a bad defense.....NO...we have a very good defense....as long as we have the physical advantage. Tonight against ST Mary's we have the better athletes and can go after them....and we should. The third weekend in March will be different.

Today scoring is down in college BB..some of it is the lack of great shooters. The game has been "gooned" up a bit. Its become a lot of teams strategy to make up for the fact that they can't shoot by being physical...KY...Louisville....you get it. We need to play our game...not play theirs. We gave up waay to many 3 buckets against Pacific but, we showed them we WILL win a scoring contest. Pacific also got our BIGS in trouble because of the TYPE of defense we were playing....we loose those bigs in the tourney..we go home. GO Zags! Our defense IS good enough if we play our game.

The Zags are better off running the shot clock down and letting the other team chase us for 30 seconds every trip up the court. We might even find out that teams like DUKE don't have the depth to play US in a game like that...a lot of teams don't have our depth...good teams. I also think Few should come out from the get go and play zone...and see if the other team has what it takes. Instead of building the other teams confidence by exploiting us....I feel zone should be the FIRST option against some teams ..... not waiting till we're in trouble.

+1
Good insight. I feel the same. I really think Few is playing to not get burned by drivers and and-1 shooters.

Our strength is shooting, bigs and depth. We can score in a fast game but we don't have to and would perhaps benefit from a zone on D and using up clock on O, as you mentioned.

DixieZag
02-21-2015, 01:14 PM
I have a theory.

I think most teams' fan bases do not think they do a good job defending the three. I might be wrong about it.

I think that fans, including ourselves, tend to remember games where our teams get torched. How can we not? Those are games we most often lose. Most people hold loses into their heads far more than wins, and loses often include lots of threes.

And, we often, either forget, or toss aside games like the last SMC game, where the opponent doesn't shoot well, and say something like "they were off" instead of attributing it to good defense.

My theory may be dead wrong. But, the few other boards I have seen, most fans complain about their 3 pt defense.

dan71w
02-21-2015, 01:19 PM
I think what we see with our team, is that other team realizes the only chance in hell they have is to be hitting 3's, so they shoot a lot more of them when they play against us. some teams just get hot, and it keeps the game somewhat close. so this factor just makes it seam like we have "poor" 3 D. just in reality, many of the 3 shots that have been made against us where desperation banked 3's. I do not think it is a product of bad D, but more a luck factor. heck many of those 3's where actually well defended.

Zag 77
02-21-2015, 03:12 PM
How do you make the other team miss? Yes, you can get up in their face and they release the ball anyway and it goes in. I prefer cracking my knuckles and blowing bubbles with gum. However, the delay on the TV feed minimizes the effectiveness of my superstitions.

Frankly, sometimes my system works better than guarding the opponent closely.

Maybe I will try wiggling my ears next. :cheers:

zag buddy
02-21-2015, 03:25 PM
I totally agree with Griz and Jim. I believe our guys expend way to much energy rushing back and trying to take a tremendous leap to block the 3 pt shooters shot. I do not believe the statistics justify the effort. I only remember twice in all the shots that this strategy had a positive effect.

Once and Future Zag
02-21-2015, 03:36 PM
How quickly we forget that we shut out Pepperdine from 3, just the game prior...

Objectively, GU holds teams to a 32.1% 3P shooting percentage. That's good for 81st in the NCAA. Solid, but not great.
On the other hand, we hold teams to 41.5% for 2 pointers, that's good for 9th overall.

This is why I'm so skeptical of a purely anecdotal approach to the game, relying on the "eye test."

Zagceo
02-21-2015, 04:19 PM
The team that beat us was 5-12 from 3 in first half and 1-5 in the second half.

GrizZAG
02-21-2015, 05:25 PM
This is probably accurate and has much merit to the "theory". I also agree with what Dan says totally. Thanks for the great discussion everyone. Here's to hoping St. Mary's is not hot from the 3 tonight :) Zags....Bring it!


I have a theory.

I think most teams' fan bases do not think they do a good job defending the three. I might be wrong about it.

I think that fans, including ourselves, tend to remember games where our teams get torched. How can we not? Those are games we most often lose. Most people hold loses into their heads far more than wins, and loses often include lots of threes.

And, we often, either forget, or toss aside games like the last SMC game, where the opponent doesn't shoot well, and say something like "they were off" instead of attributing it to good defense.

My theory may be dead wrong. But, the few other boards I have seen, most fans complain about their 3 pt defense.