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gonzagafan62
02-13-2015, 07:01 AM
http://www.todaysu.com/college-basketball/gonzaga-bulldogs-title-chances/


With the exception of Kentucky, no team in the country is as talented as Gonzaga this season. With three bigs over 6’10” and a veteran point guard, it’s almost as if the formula for tournament success was explicitly followed by this years’ Zags. When thinking about the past five or so NCAA champions, the theme of talented bigs and veteran point guards seems consistent, which is why it’s no surprise that Gonzaga has done so well this season. I fully expect to see Gonzaga cutting down the nets in early April, and after examining their body of work, you should too.

Seattle Hoo
02-13-2015, 07:19 AM
He's an SMU fan. I would write the same thing if I were an SMU fan after watching what I watched you do to them. It's better than accepting that my team was atrocious. Gonzaga has a lot of talent, but that post is absurd.

JPtheBeasta
02-13-2015, 07:22 AM
He's an SMU fan. I would write the same thing if I were an SMU fan after watching what I watched you do to them. It's better than accepting that my team was atrocious. Gonzaga has a lot of talent, but that post is absurd.

For clarity, is this a different SMU team than the one that is ranked #25 in the country?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2567/smu-mustangs

Seattle Hoo
02-13-2015, 07:31 AM
For clarity, is this a different SMU team than the one that is ranked #25 in the country?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2567/smu-mustangs

That ranking is ridiculous, and SMU today is a lot better than it was that day. I was at that game. SMU was atrocious.

Zagger
02-13-2015, 07:45 AM
That paragraph was preceded by this one ......


The size and skill in the post does not stop there for Gonzaga. In addition to Karnowski, the Zags also boast a pair of 6’10” forwards in Domantas Sabonis and Kyle Wiltjer, two players who have burst onto the national stage as players to watch in the NCAA. Sabonis is the son of legendary European basketball star Arvydas Sabonis and has adopted the playing style of his father, mixing finesse and strength to score baskets and secure rebounds at an alarming rate. Had Sabonis attended high school in the United States, he likely would have been amongst the most hotly recruited players in the country. Wiltjer found himself amongst those highly-recruited players out of high school, and after a brief stint with the University of Kentucky, he transferred to Gonzaga in search of more playing time. Since transferring, Wiltjer has cemented his place amongst college basketball’s elite, earning a spot as a Wooden finalist and emerging as Gonzaga’s leading scorer. In Wiltjer, Sabonis, and Karnowski, Gonzaga has a rare combination of size and skill that is not often found on college teams playing at the mid major level. It is going to be very difficult for any team in the country to match up with the Zags this season.
I'd agree - depth + Zag D is steadily improving. The Zags are a formidable opponent for ANY team. Although LMU is struggling you don't often see 20-0 on scoreboards. The energy the Zags put into D early on in last night's game was impressive. I'm eager to watch Saturday's game against a talented Pepperdine squad - and then the next away test. I fully expected steady improvement by the Zags making them even more of a headed for March Madness opponents.

This stuff is tasting pretty good to me :)
http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/zagkoolaid.png

Gonzdb8
02-13-2015, 07:53 AM
whew. i'm so glad some rando guy names seattle hoo with a total of 11 posts on our board is finally here to set us all straight. thanks buddy, not sure how we've gotten along all these years without you. your vacuous insight backed up by absolutely no data is a breath of fresh air around here. keep em' coming!

Seattle Hoo
02-13-2015, 07:57 AM
whew. i'm so glad some rando guy names seattle hoo with a total of 11 posts on our board is finally here to set us all straight. thanks buddy, not sure how we've gotten along all these years without you. your vacuous insight backed up by absolutely no data is a breath of fresh air around here. keep em' coming!

You're welcome. It's a service I offer.

Reborn
02-13-2015, 08:03 AM
He's an SMU fan. I would write the same thing if I were an SMU fan after watching what I watched you do to them. It's better than accepting that my team was atrocious. Gonzaga has a lot of talent, but that post is absurd.

How about UCLA instead of SMU? Zags are the only team this year who has beaten UCLA at home. Or how about Arizona, who I think has the second longest home winning streak after Gonzaga. And the Zags ALMOST (and would have should have) beat them there. It's our only loss of the year. In overtime, Hoo. Why you down on the Zags, Hoo? I suppose you're a UW fan. You sound like one.

Go Zags!!!

JPtheBeasta
02-13-2015, 08:36 AM
That ranking is ridiculous, and SMU today is a lot better than it was that day. I was at that game. SMU was atrocious.

Ok. Thank you. After this most recent post, I'm still a little confused about how seriously we are supposed to take your arguments. If you want to say SMU was atrocious then, and that we cannot factor that game into the equation as far as how good GU is, mustn't we also not allow to let that factor in to how not-so-good you think GU is? If you say it is irrelevant, it must be irrelevant in both cases.

Maybe you could start over and tell us why GU isn't good enough to win a national title? I'm sure that if you give a cogent argument with actual reasons there are people here would agree with you.

007Zag
02-13-2015, 11:31 AM
UVa fan methinks. He's a Hoo after all.

I haven't watched enough of SMU games (or top-50 RPI games for that matter) to tell you where the Mustangs should be ranked. All I know is that they are ranked #25 in the AP/Coaches/KenPom polls and we crushed them 72-56. But assuming for the moment that SMU was abnormally atrocious that game, who is to say that wasn't due to GU? And if they've gotten better as the season wears on, who is to say that the Zags haven't as well?

seacatfan
02-13-2015, 11:38 AM
SMU definitely had a rough start to the season. They have improved. Their best big man Kennedy wasn't eligible at the time they played GU. They've been winning a lot of games lately. The AAC is fairly weak this year, nothing like it was last season.

And I agree Hoo would indicate a Virginia fan. I remember him making several comments about UVa in another thread that indicated he follows them closely. I think he just showed up on this site, thus the low post count.

Seattle Hoo
02-13-2015, 12:23 PM
I am indeed a Virginia fan. I followed one of your own over here, he goes by GoZags1 on our board. My position here is a bit unique. I'm a big UVA basketball fan, but I live in Seattle now, and my boss is a bigtime Gonzaga booster. I was supposed to go home to Virginia to see them play GWU at the JPJ at Thanksgiving, but we had a trial in Spokane and I got stuck there. Side benefit was my boss taking me to the SMU and St. Joe's games. It was a lot of fun, but I was a little miffed that the #13-#22 matchup turned out to be a laugher instead of the tense battle I expected. :bishop_smiley: I'm sure you all were quite pleased with the game. I fell in love with Sabonis' game. The Kennel was fun. Nice atmosphere. I haven't been that close to the action since University Hall 1995.

As for what I am saying:

To start off, I think Gonzaga is legit #5. After the SMU game, I thought GU was overranked at #13 and UVA was overranked at #9, but I had not seen enough other teams and was simply comparing the teams to some historical standard of quality basketball teams. But compared to the teams in this year's NCAA, there definitely were not more than 8 or 12 teams in the country better than those two. I think both are validly ranked now. My personal top 5 would be UK, Duke, UVA, Wisconsin then Gonzaga. So, I'm not down on Gonzaga's team.

My argument is that Gonzaga does not have a single high quality win, in terms of quality of opponent. The demolition job done on those teams, however, was quality. Watching those games, Gonzaga was clearly a level or two above each of them. At least. Part of why they looked so bad was because Gonzaga is very good, but not all of it was. You just cannot point to any of your wins and say, "See? We beat a quality opponent!" It's not your fault. Nobody expected UCLA to suck, or SMU. You play in the league you are in. I'm not one of the people who judges your schedule.

As for the Arizona game, I know from long experience that "yeah but we had this really close loss to X great team" is a weak reed to flog a steer with. Yeah, UVA almost beat a lot of great teams down the years, and nobody outside of the borders gave us any credit for it. Fact is, you lost. But it does indicate that, sure, Gonzaga is on that general level. We already knew that. I think that rather than telling people this game or that game proves we're good, tell them to watch you play. "Hey, stay up past 10:00 and watch us play." It's what I want to tell all the national media nimrods who bash Virginia for being boring. Watch us play and see why all the ex-coaches and ex-players who announce our games love our game. It's same for Gonzaga. You play excellent team ball. It was a joy to watch. THAT'S why I think you're top 5.

I think Gonzaga is theoretically good enough to win the national championship, but I say you won't because 1) the odds of any one particular team winning it are low enough that it's a low-hanging fruit to swing at, and 2) a team like Kentucky or Virginia is going to shut down your inside game and expose your backcourt, and will have the ability to exploit your defense. Or a team like Duke is going to go all Avengers like they did to Virginia and Notre Dame. Or, if none of them does it, some Shabazz is going to Shazam the whole tournament again, and Pangos is not that guy.

Gonzaga and UVA both are under a lot of pressure in this NCAA tournament. Anything less than Elite Eight is going to energize the haters, and even EE is not going to impress anyone on the outside. Both teams kinda need to reach the Final Four to validate their programs on the national stage. We're not a Duke who can go years between a decent tournament run and still be considered an elite program. It's too bad for your sake that you don't play in a stronger conference. I guess you don't have the football it would take for the Pac 12?

I definitely do not want to see UVA and Gonzaga meet in the tournament. Too much flack at the office no matter the outcome! :boxing:

Reborn
02-13-2015, 04:49 PM
I am indeed a Virginia fan. I followed one of your own over here, he goes by GoZags1 on our board. My position here is a bit unique. I'm a big UVA basketball fan, but I live in Seattle now, and my boss is a bigtime Gonzaga booster. I was supposed to go home to Virginia to see them play GWU at the JPJ at Thanksgiving, but we had a trial in Spokane and I got stuck there. Side benefit was my boss taking me to the SMU and St. Joe's games. It was a lot of fun, but I was a little miffed that the #13-#22 matchup turned out to be a laugher instead of the tense battle I expected. :bishop_smiley: I'm sure you all were quite pleased with the game. I fell in love with Sabonis' game. The Kennel was fun. Nice atmosphere. I haven't been that close to the action since University Hall 1995.

As for what I am saying:

To start off, I think Gonzaga is legit #5. After the SMU game, I thought GU was overranked at #13 and UVA was overranked at #9, but I had not seen enough other teams and was simply comparing the teams to some historical standard of quality basketball teams. But compared to the teams in this year's NCAA, there definitely were not more than 8 or 12 teams in the country better than those two. I think both are validly ranked now. My personal top 5 would be UK, Duke, UVA, Wisconsin then Gonzaga. So, I'm not down on Gonzaga's team.

My argument is that Gonzaga does not have a single high quality win, in terms of quality of opponent. The demolition job done on those teams, however, was quality. Watching those games, Gonzaga was clearly a level or two above each of them. At least. Part of why they looked so bad was because Gonzaga is very good, but not all of it was. You just cannot point to any of your wins and say, "See? We beat a quality opponent!" It's not your fault. Nobody expected UCLA to suck, or SMU. You play in the league you are in. I'm not one of the people who judges your schedule.

As for the Arizona game, I know from long experience that "yeah but we had this really close loss to X great team" is a weak reed to flog a steer with. Yeah, UVA almost beat a lot of great teams down the years, and nobody outside of the borders gave us any credit for it. Fact is, you lost. But it does indicate that, sure, Gonzaga is on that general level. We already knew that. I think that rather than telling people this game or that game proves we're good, tell them to watch you play. "Hey, stay up past 10:00 and watch us play." It's what I want to tell all the national media nimrods who bash Virginia for being boring. Watch us play and see why all the ex-coaches and ex-players who announce our games love our game. It's same for Gonzaga. You play excellent team ball. It was a joy to watch. THAT'S why I think you're top 5.

I think Gonzaga is theoretically good enough to win the national championship, but I say you won't because 1) the odds of any one particular team winning it are low enough that it's a low-hanging fruit to swing at, and 2) a team like Kentucky or Virginia is going to shut down your inside game and expose your backcourt, and will have the ability to exploit your defense. Or a team like Duke is going to go all Avengers like they did to Virginia and Notre Dame. Or, if none of them does it, some Shabazz is going to Shazam the whole tournament again, and Pangos is not that guy.

Gonzaga and UVA both are under a lot of pressure in this NCAA tournament. Anything less than Elite Eight is going to energize the haters, and even EE is not going to impress anyone on the outside. Both teams kinda need to reach the Final Four to validate their programs on the national stage. We're not a Duke who can go years between a decent tournament run and still be considered an elite program. It's too bad for your sake that you don't play in a stronger conference. I guess you don't have the football it would take for the Pac 12?

I definitely do not want to see UVA and Gonzaga meet in the tournament. Too much flack at the office no matter the outcome! :boxing:

Great post. Thank you for sharing your insights. This post is much much better then the others. I also really like Virginia, and especially like Randy Bennett who was at WSU and played GU for about five years. His teams always played great defense even back then. Games with them were usually in the 50's just as they are now.

Go Zags!!!

seacatfan
02-13-2015, 05:22 PM
Great post. Thank you for sharing your insights. This post is much much better then the others. I also really like Virginia, and especially like Randy Bennett who was at WSU and played GU for about five years. His teams always played great defense even back then. Games with them were usually in the 50's just as they are now.

Go Zags!!!

Tony Bennett is more betterer than Randy Bennett.

gonzagafan62
02-13-2015, 05:31 PM
Tony Bennett is more betterer than Randy Bennett.

True. Tony Bennett's non conference schedule is a million time better

Ekrub
02-13-2015, 05:40 PM
I am indeed a Virginia fan. I followed one of your own over here, he goes by GoZags1 on our board. My position here is a bit unique. I'm a big UVA basketball fan, but I live in Seattle now, and my boss is a bigtime Gonzaga booster. I was supposed to go home to Virginia to see them play GWU at the JPJ at Thanksgiving, but we had a trial in Spokane and I got stuck there. Side benefit was my boss taking me to the SMU and St. Joe's games. It was a lot of fun, but I was a little miffed that the #13-#22 matchup turned out to be a laugher instead of the tense battle I expected. :bishop_smiley: I'm sure you all were quite pleased with the game. I fell in love with Sabonis' game. The Kennel was fun. Nice atmosphere. I haven't been that close to the action since University Hall 1995.

As for what I am saying:

To start off, I think Gonzaga is legit #5. After the SMU game, I thought GU was overranked at #13 and UVA was overranked at #9, but I had not seen enough other teams and was simply comparing the teams to some historical standard of quality basketball teams. But compared to the teams in this year's NCAA, there definitely were not more than 8 or 12 teams in the country better than those two. I think both are validly ranked now. My personal top 5 would be UK, Duke, UVA, Wisconsin then Gonzaga. So, I'm not down on Gonzaga's team.

My argument is that Gonzaga does not have a single high quality win, in terms of quality of opponent. The demolition job done on those teams, however, was quality. Watching those games, Gonzaga was clearly a level or two above each of them. At least. Part of why they looked so bad was because Gonzaga is very good, but not all of it was. You just cannot point to any of your wins and say, "See? We beat a quality opponent!" It's not your fault. Nobody expected UCLA to suck, or SMU. You play in the league you are in. I'm not one of the people who judges your schedule.

As for the Arizona game, I know from long experience that "yeah but we had this really close loss to X great team" is a weak reed to flog a steer with. Yeah, UVA almost beat a lot of great teams down the years, and nobody outside of the borders gave us any credit for it. Fact is, you lost. But it does indicate that, sure, Gonzaga is on that general level. We already knew that. I think that rather than telling people this game or that game proves we're good, tell them to watch you play. "Hey, stay up past 10:00 and watch us play." It's what I want to tell all the national media nimrods who bash Virginia for being boring. Watch us play and see why all the ex-coaches and ex-players who announce our games love our game. It's same for Gonzaga. You play excellent team ball. It was a joy to watch. THAT'S why I think you're top 5.

I think Gonzaga is theoretically good enough to win the national championship, but I say you won't because 1) the odds of any one particular team winning it are low enough that it's a low-hanging fruit to swing at, and 2) a team like Kentucky or Virginia is going to shut down your inside game and expose your backcourt, and will have the ability to exploit your defense. Or a team like Duke is going to go all Avengers like they did to Virginia and Notre Dame. Or, if none of them does it, some Shabazz is going to Shazam the whole tournament again, and Pangos is not that guy.

Gonzaga and UVA both are under a lot of pressure in this NCAA tournament. Anything less than Elite Eight is going to energize the haters, and even EE is not going to impress anyone on the outside. Both teams kinda need to reach the Final Four to validate their programs on the national stage. We're not a Duke who can go years between a decent tournament run and still be considered an elite program. It's too bad for your sake that you don't play in a stronger conference. I guess you don't have the football it would take for the Pac 12?

I definitely do not want to see UVA and Gonzaga meet in the tournament. Too much flack at the office no matter the outcome! :boxing:

Glad Virginia got Tony Bennet out of our hair. The one game all year I would fall asleep to and when I woke up, we usually had lost.

maynard g krebs
02-13-2015, 07:57 PM
I always thought a Hoo was someone who had their Christmas stolen by the Grinch. Little Cindy Lou was my favorite Hoo.

Seattle Hoo
02-13-2015, 09:52 PM
I always thought a Hoo was someone who had their Christmas stolen by the Grinch. Little Cindy Lou was my favorite Hoo.

I always thought the Grinch resembled Dean Smith.