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View Full Version : Now that Syracuse is out of the NCAA tournmant



IdahoTJR
02-05-2015, 05:25 AM
With the Orange's self imposed ban, their streak of 6 consecutive NCAA tournaments reaching the round of 32 will end this year. Current streaks that can be extended are

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2015/02/04/syracuse-orange-self-imposed-ban-jim-boeheim/22884099/

Kansas 8 years starting in 2007

Gonzaga 6 years starting in 2009

Edited to remove Arizona - Thanks Gonzagafan62 for the correction

gonzagafan62
02-05-2015, 05:51 AM
With the Orange's self imposed ban, their streak of 6 consecutive NCAA tournaments reaching the round of 32 will end this year. Current streaks that can be extended are

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2015/02/04/syracuse-orange-self-imposed-ban-jim-boeheim/22884099/

Kansas 8 years starting in 2007
Arizona 6 years starting in 2009
Gonzaga 6 years starting in 2009

Arizona didn't even make the tournament in 2010 or 2012, but yes the rest is correct.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/history/_/team1/5229

EDIT: Its nice to be part of such an elite group

dan71w
02-05-2015, 06:18 AM
wow, i did not hear this, after reading the article, i come away with much respect for Syracuse. there actions, are noble, just and honorable.
wish other schools where so brave, and acted with such honor and class.

zag67
02-05-2015, 06:21 AM
Personally I think that they should ban them for next year or the year after instead of this year. And then let the recruits and the existing players transfer if they want. These players are being punished for a previous groups errors. But that is me.

dan71w
02-05-2015, 06:45 AM
I do not understand what is it they did wrong?

webspinnre
02-05-2015, 06:45 AM
Maybe I'm cynical, but I'm not sure its that big of a deal to self-ban from the tourney when you weren't going to make the tourney anyway.

coolhandzag
02-05-2015, 06:51 AM
No one nearing to the story then those at home. Self discipline probably much more palatable then the NCAA digging around and concluding in Summary Judgment.

Kiddwell
02-05-2015, 06:57 AM
Maybe I'm cynical, but I'm not sure its that big of a deal to self-ban from the tourney when you weren't going to make the tourney anyway.

No, , spinnre, you are insightful.



:]

realtydog
02-05-2015, 07:17 AM
With the Orange's self imposed ban, their streak of 6 consecutive NCAA tournaments reaching the round of 32 will end this year. Current streaks that can be extended are

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2015/02/04/syracuse-orange-self-imposed-ban-jim-boeheim/22884099/

Kansas 8 years starting in 2007
Arizona 6 years starting in 2009
Gonzaga 6 years starting in 2009

where did this list come from??

WBM
02-05-2015, 07:21 AM
I'll be honest: I don't have a super high opinion of Jim Boeheim. So maybe I'm being biased to the negative when I think "They're not exactly a lock for the NCAAs this year." I imagined a conversation about "getting out in front" of the issue, drop the hammer on yourself when you find it to be convenient, so you're less likely to get sanctions later on when you might have a chance to contend.


Syracuse said no current player is involved in the investigation and that the conduct in the case did not occur after 2012.

I also agree with zag67 that the current players are being punished for actions they were not a part of. Syracuse was not likely to make the NCAA tournament, but the ACC and NIT were likely. Syracuse doesn't exactly hang banners for NIT appearances, so it's convenient for the school, not for the players, who may still enjoy some post-season play. This is particularly unfair to the seniors. I feel like the "noble" thing for Syracuse to do would be to lobby to avoid punishment for the current class, and accept unknown future sanctions so players can decide whether they want to stay or go for next year and on.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I am not impressed.

TheGonzagaFactor
02-05-2015, 08:20 AM
Random thoughts:

Wouldn't worry about the seniors. Christmas is a go-to guy for them (top scorer), but other than that they have one senior who averages one minute per game. I don't think anyone who signs for a program like Syracuse would weep over not getting to be remembered as the main guy on the "Syracuse NIT team"...

I think they still could've made the tourney. Hasn't been a great season, but they still have at least 5 games against top 10 teams to build their resume. The possibility of an at large bid, while faint, was still there.

mgadfly
02-05-2015, 08:28 AM
The only thing that I'd say is that Syracuse still has a lot of opportunities to move from NIT or worse to clear NCAA team before the end of the season. Duke twice. Virginia. Louisville. Notre Dame. That's five games against top 15 teams per Ken Pomeroy. Win those and suddenly you have a solid seeded NCAA squad. Of course they are likely to lose those games, so the point made by others is still valid, but it isn't like they are clearly OUT of the NCAA at this point. They still have a lot of opportunities left.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-05-2015, 08:28 AM
wow, i did not hear this, after reading the article, i come away with much respect for Syracuse. there actions, are noble, just and honorable.
wish other schools where so brave, and acted with such honor and class.

Really? As much as I like to root for my hometown team, I see nothing noble, just or honorable about "self-reporting" when you already know the NCAA is hot on your trail and sanctions will inevitably be coming soon to a Carrier Dome near you.


In March 2012, school officials said the university had self-reported possible violations of its internal drug policy by former members of the team and that the NCAA was investigating. None of the members of that team was involved.The school also acknowledged the NCAA had inquired into old allegations that players were allowed to practice and play despite being in violation of the school's drug policy.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/syracuse-self-imposes-mens-basketball-postseason-ban-225615328--ncaab.html

KStyles
02-05-2015, 09:39 AM
where did this list come from??

Not sure where that one came from, but mcubed.net (http://mcubed.net/ncaab/strkr64c.shtml) has a bunch of tournament streaks broken down different ways.

Here's the current Round of 32 streak list: http://mcubed.net/ncaab/strkr32c.shtml

NumberCruncher
02-05-2015, 10:33 AM
How time flies. Hard to believe it's that many years since Kansas was bounced by Bradley in R64.

Here are the teams Kansas has defeated in R64 the past 8 years: Niagara, Portland St., North Dakota St., Lehigh, Boston U., Detroit, Western Kentucky, Eastern Kentucky.

Here are the Zag victims: Akron, Florida St., St. John's, West Virginia, Southern, Oklahoma St.

Not knocking KU; they earned their seeds. But that's a pretty easy slate compared to ours.

seacatfan
02-05-2015, 11:22 AM
I don't really understand celebrating longest streaks for winning 1st round games. Especially as noted with Kansas, if they'd lost ANY of those games it would've been a huge upset. Avoiding falling flat on your face is a big accomplishment? Maybe more so for the Zags. A couple of those teams were cannon fodder, mostly they were middle of the pack teams from power conferences that had some talent but had underachieved.

TheGonzagaFactor
02-05-2015, 11:30 AM
How time flies. Hard to believe it's that many years since Kansas was bounced by Bradley in R64.

Here are the teams Kansas has defeated in R64 the past 8 years: Niagara, Portland St., North Dakota St., Lehigh, Boston U., Detroit, Western Kentucky, Eastern Kentucky.

Here are the Zag victims: Akron, Florida St., St. John's, West Virginia, Southern, Oklahoma St.

Not knocking KU; they earned their seeds. But that's a pretty easy slate compared to ours.

That's what happens when they haven't been lower than a 3 seed in that timeframe. Since 2007,

GU has one Sweet 16.

Kansas has 6 Sweet 16s,
4 Elite 8s,
2 Final 4s,
1 National Championship

They will soon pass our mark of consecutive league championships and make a run at UCLA's record.

Jayhawks are a very impressive model of consistency.

TheGonzagaFactor
02-05-2015, 11:34 AM
I don't really understand celebrating longest streaks for winning 1st round games. Especially as noted with Kansas, if they'd lost ANY of those games it would've been a huge upset. Avoiding falling flat on your face is a big accomplishment? Maybe more so for the Zags. A couple of those teams were cannon fodder, mostly they were middle of the pack teams from power conferences that had some talent but had underachieved.

There's plenty to celebrate. Making it to the tournament is hard. Making it there and winning a game is even harder. Plus, if you make it to the Round of 32, it means you're in the top 9% of D1 teams. Doing that multiple years in a row is awesome.

It's not like they hand out trophies for long streaks of years winning a tourney game. Doesn't mean it's not impressive.

NumberCruncher
02-05-2015, 11:35 AM
I don't really understand celebrating longest streaks for winning 1st round games. Especially as noted with Kansas, if they'd lost ANY of those games it would've been a huge upset. Avoiding falling flat on your face is a big accomplishment? Maybe more so for the Zags. A couple of those teams were cannon fodder, mostly they were middle of the pack teams from power conferences that had some talent but had underachieved.

Point taken. It's not that great of an accomplishment.

Still, it IS an accomplishment. Discussing the failures is ok with me. Pointing out the accomplishments is a great way to put the failures into perspective. There are 348 other teams who cannot lay claim to this particular accomplishment.

seacatfan
02-05-2015, 11:47 AM
It is interesting how many noteworthy teams aren't on this list, or who haven't done it for more than 1 or 2 years consecutively currently.

I guess it's just me, but it kinda feels like "well GU hasn't gotten to the Sweet 16 in quite a while, but at least they win their 1st round game every year."

gonzagafan62
02-05-2015, 12:06 PM
It is interesting how many noteworthy teams aren't on this list, or who haven't done it for more than 1 or 2 years consecutively currently.

I guess it's just me, but it kinda feels like "well GU hasn't gotten to the Sweet 16 in quite a while, but at least they win their 1st round game every year."

Look at what seeds GU has been given over the six year streak:

4, 8, 11, 7, 1, 8

4 vs 13 has been known to cause a huge upset over the past years. 8 vs 9 is pretty much a "pick 'em" ... 11s aren't supposed to beat 6s... the only one that was given to us was the Southern game.

Maybe its because you are part Arizona seacatfan, that makes you think the way you do. And that's okay too. We do need to get back to the sweet sixteen. But it all comes back to "Are you better than the team you are facing that day?"

We will see, but getting to the Round of 32 six straight years is very impressive and I take it in great pride, as you can tell from my signature. Did anyone realistically think that Gonzaga would have gotten to the point where we are spoiled with Round of 32 every year, about ten years ago? I doubt it. Its very hard to keep advancing with seeds like 7, 8 and 11. Remember who we had on some of those teams. Not that they were terrible players, but Goodson and Carter started for us in the St. John's game and BYU game. We were overpowered in a Steven Gray farewell against Syracuse .... Pangos and Bell were freshman against West Virginia and Ohio State. And last year was a down year with impressive performances from Stockton and Dower all year, but Pangos had turf toe.... Arizona then overpowered us.

You can't think of it as a BIG time school. Sure its a team with lots of successes and a big time caliber basketball team for a few years out of the times we have made the tournament. Mark Few has just NOW figured out how to build #1 and #2 ranked teams .... He got lucky with Morrison and Dickau, but now we can say we have had complete dominant teams here in the last 2 of 3 years. The baby is just now growing up. It can grow in a hurry this spring if we do make some noise, but if not? Does it matter? Yes, even I will be disappointed with anything less than elite eight.... But we will have another chance soon, at least I hope we can keep this chance afloat.... We have a great team this season.

Live in the now, not the future. Don't get caught up in the postseason with a team that bases its focus on the regular season. Its fun, no doubt either way, but I am just saying March didn't make George Mason a perennial contender, neither did it for Kent St, or Southwest Missouri State, or several other teams that have gotten lucky and made the elite eight or final four.

You probably knew all this already, but with a mind that also has Pac12 (which demands more results in a postseason that is a crap shoot) its hard to overcome that sometimes. I root for the Tennessee Vols in football. I know all about major conferences. I know how they work, too.

Moral of the Story: Take pride in what you can, because sooner or later, you will have no pride left, except the memories.

Shanachie
02-05-2015, 12:08 PM
I don't really understand celebrating longest streaks for winning 1st round games. Especially as noted with Kansas, if they'd lost ANY of those games it would've been a huge upset. Avoiding falling flat on your face is a big accomplishment? Maybe more so for the Zags. A couple of those teams were cannon fodder, mostly they were middle of the pack teams from power conferences that had some talent but had underachieved.

It doesn't sound that hard, but if you look at the history of the tournament, it's pretty hard to characterize a first round upset as "falling flat on your face." It's just too common, even for the top few seeds (with the exception of 1 seeds). Check out the streaks that KStyles linked above. Only 17 teams have current streaks of making the round of 32 the last two years, and only five have made the sweet 16 the last two years. Heck, even making the tournament isn't that easy - only 11 teams have made it to each of the last 5.

DixieZag
02-05-2015, 12:22 PM
I think the streak of 32 (so to speak) is something to be hugely proud of, and it near offsets the lack of going deep.

Last year not for one minute did I worry about beating Ok State. Sure, it's in the mind "it could happen" but I was totally confident, same with St. Johns. And, as much as it hurts to not go deep, it's been a long time since we've felt the pain of having the tournament over by 1:00 pm Pacific time on Thursday, which sux.

I think it is important, even though I am pretty critical of the "playing defensive" that I think costs us in the next game, it's still something to be very proud of.

seacatfan
02-05-2015, 12:38 PM
It doesn't sound that hard, but if you look at the history of the tournament, it's pretty hard to characterize a first round upset as "falling flat on your face." It's just too common, even for the top few seeds (with the exception of 1 seeds). Check out the streaks that KStyles linked above. Only 17 teams have current streaks of making the round of 32 the last two years, and only five have made the sweet 16 the last two years. Heck, even making the tournament isn't that easy - only 11 teams have made it to each of the last 5.

Definitely true. I did look at the list. Kentucky is currently at 1 and Duke isn't there, they've lost in the 1st round twice in the last 3 or 4 years. So I definitely understand winning the first game isn't a given, for anyone.

If I seem spoiled, I think it's more because Gonzaga won 7 Tournament games from '99-'01 (pretty much all of which they were the lower seeded team, right?) than because I'm also an Arizona fan and follow the Pac 12.

edited to add: As an Arizona fan, I am definitely familiar with a handful of 1st round flame outs as a high seed, or missing the Tourney entirely a couple times in recent years.

seacatfan
02-05-2015, 12:54 PM
Its fun, no doubt either way, but I am just saying March didn't make George Mason a perennial contender, neither did it for Kent St, or Southwest Missouri State, or several other teams that have gotten lucky and made the elite eight or final four.
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This, definitely. All 3 of those fell off the map after their run. Davidson has been to the Tourney semi regularly since their Elite 8, but not very deep. VCU has been a quality program and I think perennial Tourney team, but hasn't advanced very far. Wichita St. has won a ton of games since their Final 4, but didn't last long in March last year and we'll see about this year. Butler took a huge step backwards after their coach left, they seem to be bouncing back this year after a couple down years.

I think the only two programs semi-comparable to Gonzaga in terms of consistently good teams and getting to the Tournament almost, but not quite every year, for a long period are Xavier and Memphis. And Memphis isn't really analogous because they've really been more like a power conference team than a mid major throughout their history, despite hop scotching from one league to another continuously, some of which were stronger than others.

Zagricultural
02-05-2015, 01:32 PM
This is simply astounding! We are so blessed! Only 5 schools have been able to celebrate a tournament berth the last 16 years. I know I am going to be vilified for this, but I will take it. I desperately want a final four, but I would rather be in the dance every year than a final four here with an NIT there :)
Kansas 25 years - 1990..2014
Duke 19 years - 1996..2014
Michigan State 17 years - 1998..2014
Gonzaga 16 years - 1999..2014
Wisconsin 16 years - 1999..2014
Louisville 8 years - 2007..2014
Ohio State 6 years - 2009..2014
Syracuse 6 years - 2009..2014
Florida 5 years - 2010..2014
Kansas State 5 years - 2010..2014
San Diego State 5 years - 2010..2014
Cincinnati 4 years - 2011..2014
Memphis 4 years - 2011..2014
Michigan 4 years - 2011..2014
North Carolina 4 years - 2011..2014
Virginia Commonwealth 4 years - 2011..2014

gonzagafan62
02-05-2015, 01:36 PM
This is simply astounding! We are so blessed! Only 5 schools have been able to celebrate a tournament berth the last 16 years. I know I am going to be vilified for this, but I will take it. I desperately want a final four, but I would rather be in the dance every year than a final four here with an NIT there :)
Kansas 25 years - 1990..2014
Duke 19 years - 1996..2014
Michigan State 17 years - 1998..2014
Gonzaga 16 years - 1999..2014
Wisconsin 16 years - 1999..2014
Louisville 8 years - 2007..2014
Ohio State 6 years - 2009..2014
Syracuse 6 years - 2009..2014
Florida 5 years - 2010..2014
Kansas State 5 years - 2010..2014
San Diego State 5 years - 2010..2014
Cincinnati 4 years - 2011..2014
Memphis 4 years - 2011..2014
Michigan 4 years - 2011..2014
North Carolina 4 years - 2011..2014
Virginia Commonwealth 4 years - 2011..2014

If we could have a National Title, and then go back to our Round of 32 every year, ill take it!

:)

'62

gonzagafan62
02-05-2015, 01:39 PM
Also, Michigan State, Florida, Ohio State, Kansas State, Michigan, Memphis, and Cincy (teams on that list of yours) are all in danger of missing the tournament. Maybe not Ohio State and Michigan State, but they are on the fringe of the "safe teams" for now anyways... Season still young.

:)

'62

EDIT: Syracuse is already disqualified