PDA

View Full Version : Meehan; 2013 versus 2015



DixieZag
02-03-2015, 09:03 PM
Cool article: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/feb/03/no-2-gonzaga-similar-zags-2013-14/


“I would say that we’re just different with (Kyle) Wiltjer,” coach Mark Few said. “He just adds a different dimension with that skill package he brings. The way we’re moving the ball is vastly different than (2013), although that team was extremely efficient on offense, too.

“That team was a little more athletic inside and could do more things with those bigs, as far as activating them on the perimeter with screen-and-roll.”


“We score it all five positions, which we didn’t do that year,” Few said. “We had Mike Hart (2 ppg), who was a phenomenal glue guy, defensive player and rebounder. He just did it all for us. This team can score it at all five positions and we can pretty much do that no matter who we sub.”

Much more at the link.

Zagceo
02-03-2015, 09:44 PM
Good article.

I like the "so thats to be continued" at the end by Few……. a play on Padre Tonys old "to be continued"…maybe?…probably not but put a smile on my face

GO ZAGS

MDABE80
02-03-2015, 10:18 PM
It's going to begin. It does every year.....http://www.vavel.com/en-us/ncaa/college-basketball/445943-does-gonzaga-belong-among-nations-top-teams.html

The blogs on most espn type s are usually repleat with the doubters all these years later. We absolutely need a deep deep run to begin shutting them up. Even one won't do it unless we get to the FF. Multiple years will be required. 2013 is one they'll always point to. It's lessened in the past 2 years but those reference will emerge
No substitute for winning a crown. Performance counts.

Reborn
02-04-2015, 06:09 AM
Hahahahaha I'm laughing because this is another thread I have been thinking about posting. And now here it is. Thanks. I think the article is great, and most of what I would say is in that article. Meehan is very good. I liked what Kevin Pangos said. He and Bell are seniors now, and more experienced and mature. And Pangos also talks about the experience of Wesley and Wiltjer and McClelland. And both Mark Few and Kevin point to the fact that this team has five guys who can score, and Few takes it further (and I agree) and says that, in fact, GU has eight guys who can score.

I really liked Elias Harris a lot. He was great. But, imo, the combination of Wiltjer and Sabonis can do more together then Elias and Sam Dower could. Elias was sometimes a very good player both in one on one situations and on the boards. But honestly he was not always. He was inconsistent, imo. And, at times, his height kept him from becoming the type of player that both Sabonis and Wiltjer can become. Dower was also a good outside shooter, but he could not stretch a defense like Wiltjer can. Simply, Wiltjer can shoot further out. And at times, especially early on in Sam's career, he was good inside with his left hand, but teams began to figure out how to stop him. So far, they have not figured that out with Sabonis.

Mt Karnowski is now a Junior, and imo, is the best passing center that Gonzaga has had in the Mark Few era. It's becoming more and more difficult to double team him because of his passing skills. He is making teams pay for double teaming him by passing out to our Ninja Shooters. This Gonzaga team is so difficult to beat. Many say that the only team that can beat Kentucky is Kentucky. I feel I can now say that about this years Gonzaga team.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

gonzagafan62
02-04-2015, 06:29 AM
I loved that 2013 team. Was such a fun year. It seemed as though the games were highly competitive and exciting as well. I think this team is a lot better though. Karno, Bell, and Pangos are better than they were, and Wiltjer is slightly better than Harris IMO. Wesley is a slasher we have never had before, and the bench and depth are better.

DixieZag
02-04-2015, 06:52 AM
Bell was a shadow of his real self in 2013 b/c of all the injuries even prior to Wichita. He's healthy.

hooter73
02-04-2015, 07:48 AM
The experience of this team is what is getting us through. in 2013 it was the power punch of Kelly basically being unstoppable, Harris playing so solid and Hart giving the extra possessions. Pangos had a good year there too but we still had to have go-to sharp shooters like Barham to get out of a plateau.

I am enamored with KO and I believe he is the best big out of the group of bigs form both teams but our TEAM this year would win out over the 2013 squad every time imo

zagmantis2001
02-04-2015, 08:01 AM
It's going to begin. It does every year.....http://www.vavel.com/en-us/ncaa/college-basketball/445943-does-gonzaga-belong-among-nations-top-teams.html

The blogs on most espn type s are usually repleat with the doubters all these years later. We absolutely need a deep deep run to begin shutting them up. Even one won't do it unless we get to the FF. Multiple years will be required. 2013 is one they'll always point to. It's lessened in the past 2 years but those reference will emerge
No substitute for winning a crown. Performance counts.

At least the writer could have got his facts straight. GU played Arizona in 2003, before Morrison was a freshman. The loss that they always bring up with the tears on the court was in 2006 against UCLA, not Arizona.

kitzbuel
02-04-2015, 08:08 AM
Here is my comparison of the two teams.

2015 || 2013
Karno < KO (barely)
Wiltjer > Dower
Wesley = Harris
Pangos > Pangos
Bell > Bell

Sabonis > Hart
Perkins (Please!) > Stockton
Dranginis > Dranginis

I think this year's versions of GBJ, KP and Draino are better then 2013.

Zagdawg
02-04-2015, 08:20 AM
If you add in McClellan and Melson-- it only gets better.

seacatfan
02-04-2015, 08:57 AM
Here is my comparison of the two teams.

2015 || 2013
Karno < KO (barely)
Wiltjer > Dower
Wesley = Harris
Pangos > Pangos
Bell > Bell

Sabonis > Hart
Perkins (Please!) > Stockton
Dranginis > Dranginis

I think this year's versions of GBJ, KP and Draino are better then 2013.

You've got that a bit mixed and matched with starters and who played what positions. Your comparisons should be Wiltjer-Harris, Wesley-Hart and Sabonis-Dower. Not that it will tip the balance either way. Also Perkins hasn't played for well over a month and is unlikely to be available any time soon. I guess you'd have to compare Stockton to McClellan, who we've only had brief glimpses of in about 5 games.

RenoZag
02-04-2015, 09:22 AM
It's going to begin. It does every year.....http://www.vavel.com/en-us/ncaa/college-basketball/445943-does-gonzaga-belong-among-nations-top-teams.html

The blogs on most espn type s are usually repleat with the doubters all these years later. We absolutely need a deep deep run to begin shutting them up. Even one won't do it unless we get to the FF. Multiple years will be required. 2013 is one they'll always point to. It's lessened in the past 2 years but those reference will emerge
No substitute for winning a crown. Performance counts.

Why do we give two shakes about what doubting media types think ? As you point out, they will always be there. Hell, we have enough skepticism in this on-line community to fill ten of Myron Mecalf's columns.

Beat the Broncos !

kitzbuel
02-04-2015, 09:25 AM
You've got that a bit mixed and matched with starters and who played what positions. Your comparisons should be Wiltjer-Harris, Wesley-Hart and Sabonis-Dower. Not that it will tip the balance either way. Also Perkins hasn't played for well over a month and is unlikely to be available any time soon. I guess you'd have to compare Stockton to McClellan, who we've only had brief glimpses of in about 5 games.

Yeah, there is not a good, direct player correlation between the two teams, mainly because of this year's depth. Sabonis could also match up against Harris as well, and Wesley with Hart. I think Sabonis = Harris as of now and Wesley > Hart, so it is about the same.

krozman
02-04-2015, 09:38 AM
And if we face an 8 seed that hits 9 straight 3's in a row at the end of the game, this team will probably lose too. I do like the article....it seems fair without being overbearing to make a point.

seacatfan
02-04-2015, 09:56 AM
Yeah, there is not a good, direct player correlation between the two teams, mainly because of this year's depth. Sabonis could also match up against Harris as well, and Wesley with Hart. I think Sabonis = Harris as of now and Wesley > Hart, so it is about the same.

I wasn't sure if you were going for players with similar styles/roles or just directly starters at each position. I think 2015 is a stronger team, much better depth and more scorers. Olynk had a transcendent season, Harris was really solid and the 2 soph guards were a nice pair in 2013. Stockton and Hart logged a lot of minutes that year and both were very offensively challenged, led to quite a bit of imbalance for the Zags. Don't have that issue this year. Despite the #1 seed and #1 ranking in the final regular season poll for 2013, I think 2009 is really the only other Zag team comparable to this year's for overall talent, and they underachieved that season (not that they had a chance of beating UNC, but they lost several regular season games they had no business losing, could've had a better seed in the Tourney if they took care of business).

NumberCruncher
02-04-2015, 11:24 AM
Here's an efficiency comparison of the last three Zag teams after 23 games. This year's team is better on both ends of the court.

http://i.imgur.com/4m9EQ35.jpg

Salsageek
02-04-2015, 11:41 AM
I highly doubt that will happen with our perimeter players this year. However I am pretty sure we will foul those 3 pt shooters by jumping into them so maybe it will be a wash.


And if we face an 8 seed that hits 9 straight 3's in a row at the end of the game, this team will probably lose too. I do like the article....it seems fair without being overbearing to make a point.

FuManShoes
02-04-2015, 01:24 PM
Will be interesting to see if the comparisons and trend lines hold up in March. If I recall, Harris had a great year and a really tough tourney (4-18), as he had no lift and got swatted numerous times. Never did get the story on that - was he forcing things or hurt?

NumberCruncher
02-04-2015, 02:46 PM
Will be interesting to see if the comparisons and trend lines hold up in March. If I recall, Harris had a great year and a really tough tourney (4-18), as he had no lift and got swatted numerous times. Never did get the story on that - was he forcing things or hurt?

I agree, it will be interesting.

In Salt Lake City, as I recall, the opposing bigs were allowed to be very physical. Harris was blocked 4 times against Southern and 3 times against Wich while getting a total of 10 free throws. Olynyk was also blocked 5 times.

There was very little confidence in the backups. Dower played only 7 and 6 minutes. Karnowski didn't even play against Wich. The front court dynamic is completely different on this year's team.

RenoZag
02-04-2015, 07:10 PM
Here's an efficiency comparison of the last three Zag teams after 23 games. This year's team is better on both ends of the court.

http://i.imgur.com/4m9EQ35.jpg

Thanks for the data, NC.

ZagsZombieNation
02-04-2015, 08:05 PM
Here's how I think the two teams stack up:

C: Olynyk vs. Karnowski: Olynyk because of the versatility of his offensive game
PF: Harris vs. Wiltjer: Toss up, KW can shoot the 3 better than E did his senior year, but I think Harris had a better post game and power, and better ball handling
SF: Hart vs. Wesley: Tough to compare the two, very different players, but Wesley helps the Zags so much offensively while playing good defense so I'll go with Byron.
SG: Bell vs. Bell: Roughly the same player, similar mid-season struggles both years.
PG: Pangos vs. Pangos: Similar numbers as well all though much more accurate shooter this year, more assists, better A/TO ratio, so 2015 Pangos wins out.

#3 Big: Dower vs. Sabonis: Provide very different assets on offense but Domas is the much better finisher around the rim so he wins this matchup.
#4 Big: Karnowski vs. Nunez: Not much in common other than being the 4th big man in the rotation and seeing dwindling PT as the season goes on. But clear advantage PK.

1st Guard off Bench: Stockton vs. Dranginis, both very steady with good playmaking skills, this one is a real toss up for me.
2nd Guard off Bench: Barham vs. Melson, both came on in January of their respective seasons, both are excellent 3 point shooters, but Melson's versatility wins out.
3rd Guard off Bench: Dranginis vs. McClellan: Too soon to tell with EMac to decide this matchup.

Limited minutes energy guy: Edi vs. Griffin, Both capable of highlight dunks and strong defense, but Edi actually started the beginning of 2012-13 before entering Few's doghouse and had much more of an on court impact. Advantage Guy.

GrizZAG
02-04-2015, 09:05 PM
Here's how I think the two teams stack up:

C: Olynyk vs. Karnowski: Olynyk because of the versatility of his offensive game
PF: Harris vs. Wiltjer: Toss up, KW can shoot the 3 better than E did his senior year, but I think Harris had a better post game and power, and better ball handling
SF: Hart vs. Wesley: Tough to compare the two, very different players, but Wesley helps the Zags so much offensively while playing good defense so I'll go with Byron.
SG: Bell vs. Bell: Roughly the same player, similar mid-season struggles both years.
PG: Pangos vs. Pangos: Similar numbers as well all though much more accurate shooter this year, more assists, better A/TO ratio, so 2015 Pangos wins out.

#3 Big: Dower vs. Sabonis: Provide very different assets on offense but Domas is the much better finisher around the rim so he wins this matchup.
#4 Big: Karnowski vs. Nunez: Not much in common other than being the 4th big man in the rotation and seeing dwindling PT as the season goes on. But clear advantage PK.

1st Guard off Bench: Stockton vs. Dranginis, both very steady with good playmaking skills, this one is a real toss up for me.
2nd Guard off Bench: Barham vs. Melson, both came on in January of their respective seasons, both are excellent 3 point shooters, but Melson's versatility wins out.
3rd Guard off Bench: Dranginis vs. McClellan: Too soon to tell with EMac to decide this matchup.

Limited minutes energy guy: Edi vs. Griffin, Both capable of highlight dunks and strong defense, but Edi actually started the beginning of 2012-13 before entering Few's doghouse and had much more of an on court impact. Advantage Guy.

Yes, good comparisons.

kitzbuel
02-05-2015, 09:34 AM
It is a little difficult to do direct position to position comparisons of the two teams. I look at Mike Hart and his contributions off the bench; energy, rebounding, defensive intensity; and I see that role being played this year by Domantus.

Domas is the reliable 6th man, offensive rebounder, infuses intensity. He definitely plays a different position than Hart, but same role.

It is interesting and kind of fun to look at the different aspects of the two teams.

seacatfan
02-05-2015, 11:15 AM
It is a little difficult to do direct position to position comparisons of the two teams. I look at Mike Hart and his contributions off the bench; energy, rebounding, defensive intensity; and I see that role being played this year by Domantus.

Domas is the reliable 6th man, offensive rebounder, infuses intensity. He definitely plays a different position than Hart, but same role.

It is interesting and kind of fun to look at the different aspects of the two teams.

Except Hart was a starter about half of the season, including down the stretch. For me, I'd take Dranginis over Hart all day every day.

Rangerzag
02-05-2015, 05:07 PM
Not so obvious but it has occurred to me the 13 team was much more of a surprise. There was ongoing anticipation for the combination of players lining up for this season and how they would play. Far fewer fans were ready for how improved Kelly was once he was back in the lineup. The 13 season kind of revealed itself a bit at a time. This year we were ready and waiting to see just exactly how good it really could be.

Reborn
02-05-2015, 06:27 PM
Not so obvious but it has occurred to me the 13 team was much more of a surprise. There was ongoing anticipation for the combination of players lining up for this season and how they would play. Far fewer fans were ready for how improved Kelly was once he was back in the lineup. The 13 season kind of revealed itself a bit at a time. This year we were ready and waiting to see just exactly how good it really could be.

Good point, Rangerzag!!!