PDA

View Full Version : Sam Cunliffe & Nolan Narian to take visits for the Memphis game.



Marcus
01-25-2015, 03:55 PM
I posted this in another thread but thought maybe others would be interested to talk about it. Looks like the Memphis game will be an important weekend for a few reasons. Hope to see the Zags and Kennel Club on fire. They would both be great to grab for the Zags.

Big Bulldog
01-26-2015, 09:01 AM
As posted by Marcus in another thread, here's some info on Nolan:

http://northpolehoops.com/2015/01/25/nolan-narain-sets-first-official-visit-to-gonzaga/#.VMUzIt076K0

Zagdawg
01-26-2015, 09:21 AM
Cunliffe scored 29 pts Jan 19th and 33 pts Jan 4th (averaging 19.6 pts and 5.5. boards per game)

Saying he is 6'4"-6'6" and wants to play point guard

Some info from a camp late last year.
http://www.burlisononbasketball.com/2014/11/cunliffe-davis-show-out-at-wce-camp-in-colorado/


"My choice, however, for the Most Outstanding Player tag for the camp is 6-6 Sam Cunliffe (Blanchet High in Seattle).

And a whole lot of the players from in and around the Denver area who were watching him for the first time – Davis included – and were offering plenty of vocal props from the stands would probably agree with that assessment.

His skills as a handler, passer, scorer and – often – spectacular and high-flying athlete were clicking from Jump Street when he stepped onto the floor for “Utah” Sunday morning.

Cunliffe may be the least known – from the perspective of college recruiters and the “Internet scouting” circuit – among the 25 or so best prospects in the national junior class for just one reason:

Not nearly as many of those aforementioned folks have seen him as they have the other prospects in that category.

Cunliffe played on the junior varsity at Seattle’s O’Dea High as a freshman, and was ineligible to play as a sophomore after his transfer to Blanchet.

He did make an impact on those – myself included – who happened to see him play with the Seattle-based A Plus travel squad during a Pump-N-Run Tournament in Southern California last July.

But the figurative recruiting floodgates on attention from college coaches and “Internet recruiting sites” are going to burst when he finally makes his varsity debut in a few weeks and when he hits the travel ball circuit in the spring."

Marcus
01-26-2015, 09:32 AM
Cunliffe scored 29 pts Jan 19th and 33 pts Jan 4th (averaging 19.6 pts and 5.5. boards per game)

Saying he is 6'4"-6'6" and wants to play point guard
Some info from a camp late last year.
http://www.burlisononbasketball.com/2014/11/cunliffe-davis-show-out-at-wce-camp-in-colorado/


"My choice, however, for the Most Outstanding Player tag for the camp is 6-6 Sam Cunliffe (Blanchet High in Seattle).

And a whole lot of the players from in and around the Denver area who were watching him for the first time – Davis included – and were offering plenty of vocal props from the stands would probably agree with that assessment.

His skills as a handler, passer, scorer and – often – spectacular and high-flying athlete were clicking from Jump Street when he stepped onto the floor for “Utah” Sunday morning.

Cunliffe may be the least known – from the perspective of college recruiters and the “Internet scouting” circuit – among the 25 or so best prospects in the national junior class for just one reason:

Not nearly as many of those aforementioned folks have seen him as they have the other prospects in that category.

Cunliffe played on the junior varsity at Seattle’s O’Dea High as a freshman, and was ineligible to play as a sophomore after his transfer to Blanchet.

He did make an impact on those – myself included – who happened to see him play with the Seattle-based A Plus travel squad during a Pump-N-Run Tournament in Southern California last July.

But the figurative recruiting floodgates on attention from college coaches and “Internet recruiting sites” are going to burst when he finally makes his varsity debut in a few weeks and when he hits the travel ball circuit in the spring."

Does anyone know if thats what Few is recruiting him as? Is his projected position at college a PG or something else?

cjm720
01-26-2015, 01:28 PM
Does anyone know if thats what Few is recruiting him as? Is his projected position at college a PG or something else?

No idea, but I think a lot of kids say this...Gary Bell comes to mind. Hopefully he realizes that coach can identify what's best suited for a player and is honest and open about it. Otherwise, the fit may never work.

HenneZag
01-26-2015, 01:53 PM
Hopefully we stay on him hard, sounds like he will be exploding onto the scene here shortly and just a matter of time until the Big Boys come calling.

With that said, hopefully during his visit he will see the tradition, passion within our fan base, and in general why GU is a special place to play. I don't know him personally, and haven't heard much about how he is as a person, but GU attracts certain types of character guys. Some recruits don't need to visit 5-6 schools before they know etc, they just know when the feeling is right. I'm hoping it will be like this with both the recruits visiting during Memphis. We will have a need for both of these guys here in a couple years!

SDzagster
01-30-2015, 02:30 PM
Any news on Sam and Nolan arriving?

I am especially high on Nolan.

Zagdawg
01-30-2015, 03:21 PM
Sam has a game tonight against Rainer Beach 14-2 (Dejounte Murray).

hooter73
01-30-2015, 05:45 PM
Im stoked just to have some recruits at all!

Marcus
01-30-2015, 06:54 PM
Any news on Sam and Nolan arriving?

I am especially high on Nolan.

Me too. He looks like he is really starting to get the attention of the heavyweights. I'm glad we got in there before them. The staff does such an incredible job of identifying talent early. From what I've read about him he has a huge motor and plays really hard. Has a nice outside shot too.

Zagdawg
01-30-2015, 08:54 PM
"Braves fall to Rainier Beach 66-53. Cunliffe leads all scorers with 23. Bennett adds 10 & Harmon posts double double with 10 & 11.---Murray with 16 pts and 16 boards---Sam held Murray to 10 points under his average."

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 05:12 AM
Narain, Cunliffe, Haley and 1 more big for 2016 and we're set.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 05:13 AM
Me too. He looks like he is really starting to get the attention of the heavyweights. I'm glad we got in there before them. The staff does such an incredible job of identifying talent early. From what I've read about him he has a huge motor and plays really hard. Has a nice outside shot too.

Uh...we're #3 in the national and a a perennial top 25 team; we are "one of the heavyweights". It always amazes me how many of our own fans don't realize how major of a program we truly are.

WallaWallaZag
01-31-2015, 06:47 AM
Uh...we're #3 in the national and a a perennial top 25 team; we are "one of the heavyweights". It always amazes me how many of our own fans don't realize how major of a program we truly are.

i'm sorry, but wcc affiliation makes it impossible for the zags to be "one of the heavyweights." fact of life - top 50 kids in general don't want to play outside the bcs.

Marcus
01-31-2015, 06:59 AM
Uh...we're #3 in the national and a a perennial top 25 team; we are "one of the heavyweights". It always amazes me how many of our own fans don't realize how major of a program we truly are.

We may be a major program in terms of performance, ability to schedule and other areas but in terms of recruiting I will have to disagree.

Marcus
01-31-2015, 07:18 AM
Narain, Cunliffe, Haley and 1 more big for 2016 and we're set.

This, I'm in 100% agreement with you. That pair of Cunliffe and Haley would be the biggest backcourt I think we've ever had. Talk about match up problems.

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-31-2015, 08:36 AM
Narain, Cunliffe, Haley and 1 more big for 2016 and we're set.

+ Zach Collins

+1

hooter73
01-31-2015, 09:36 AM
We may be a major program in terms of performance, ability to schedule and other areas but in terms of recruiting I will have to disagree.

Wasnt it Murray wso specifically said no to us because of the WCC.

And Collins is #1 on my wish list.

Zagdawg
01-31-2015, 10:00 AM
David Narain ‏@rooferman68 2h2 hours ago
Happy National Gonzaga Day! We are enjoying our visit to Spokane & GU!



http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh559/zagdawg/B8sYK4rCcAIPZy2.jpg (http://s1251.photobucket.com/user/zagdawg/media/B8sYK4rCcAIPZy2.jpg.html)

23dpg
01-31-2015, 10:06 AM
Wasnt it Murray wso specifically said no to us because of the WCC.

And Collins is #1 on my wish list.

No it was Thybulle who was basically down to UW vs Gonzaga.

ZagsGoZags
01-31-2015, 10:08 AM
Uh...we're #3 in the national and a a perennial top 25 team; we are "one of the heavyweights". It always amazes me how many of our own fans don't realize how major of a program we truly are.spy, how could you possibly say that?
haven't you read all the posters in here who say that polls are utterly meaningless?

BobZag
01-31-2015, 10:39 AM
David Narain ‏@rooferman68 2h2 hours ago
Happy National Gonzaga Day! We are enjoying our visit to Spokane & GU!



http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh559/zagdawg/B8sYK4rCcAIPZy2.jpg (http://s1251.photobucket.com/user/zagdawg/media/B8sYK4rCcAIPZy2.jpg.html)

Is that his sister, girlfriend or his mother?

cggonzaga
01-31-2015, 10:42 AM
It's one or the other on Cunliffe or Haley, they're the same player. I prefer Cunliffe. Norain and Collins. What a sick frontcourt that would be.

Kong-Kool-Aid
01-31-2015, 10:55 AM
Is that his sister, girlfriend or his mother?


What are you implying there?

sittingon50
01-31-2015, 11:05 AM
What are you implying there?

Bob's implying that he (like me) is getting OLD!!

:lmao:

jazzdelmar
01-31-2015, 11:14 AM
Is that his sister, girlfriend or his mother?

Any of the above works for me.

Zagceo
01-31-2015, 11:15 AM
Is that his sister, girlfriend or his mother?

I'm guessing Mom .cool shoes .


"We definitely have a list of a Top 10 schools that we are dialed into and that list is based on schools that have a high degree of interest in Nolan and a mold of high academic standards and graduation rates, along with a good basketball experience," emphasized David. "We want the ability for Nolan to leave his 4 years of university with a great experience and a degree. A combination of a great basketball experience and a degree is appealing to us. We are studying the schools to find which fit best into that group." LINK (http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2014/11/6/7171369/will-the-canadian-pipeline-continue-in-2016-gonzaga-eyes-nolan-narain)

My guess Dad (David) took the picture.

BobZag
01-31-2015, 11:45 AM
If that's Mom, she looks like Julianne Hough! I'll just leave it there.

Ahem!

ZagaZags
01-31-2015, 12:05 PM
That is his mom. Dad ( David ) took the pic.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 12:35 PM
NONSENSE. We've transcended conference affiliation. Some serious self loating in this thread.
i'm sorry, but wcc affiliation makes it impossible for the zags to be "one of the heavyweights." fact of life - top 50 kids in general don't want to play outside the bcs.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 12:37 PM
It's one or the other on Cunliffe or Haley, they're the same player. I prefer Cunliffe. Norain and Collins. What a sick frontcourt that would be.
Disagree 100%, the two are not mutually exclusive. Two 6'5 combo guards will be a defensive nightmare for the opposition, as someone already mentioned.

Zagceo
01-31-2015, 01:08 PM
NONSENSE. We've transcended conference affiliation. Some serious self loating in this thread.

Why can't we break into the Top 40 2015 recruiting list according to ESPN? LINK (http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2015/date/20150130)

jazzdelmar
01-31-2015, 01:22 PM
If that's Mom, she looks like Julianne Hough! I'll just leave it there.

Ahem!

Maybe, but to me a very very young Anne Archer. She would do well as our Mrs Curry or Mrs Hansborough honey shot.

ZagaZags
01-31-2015, 03:50 PM
Why can't we break into the Top 40 2015 recruiting list according to ESPN? LINK (http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2015/date/20150130)

Most people won't agree with me on this. ESPN doesn't rate foreign players very well. I think with all of the newcomers GU picked up this season, this is a top 5 recruiting class for 2014.

Kyle Wiltjer*
Byron Wesley*
Eric McClellan*
Domas Sabonis
Josh Perkins
Silas Melson
Bryan Alberts

* I understand these are transfers but in my world they still count.

zag67
01-31-2015, 04:54 PM
God, I hate to say this but I agree with Zagazags again. We get too many recruits from outside the US to be counted in their rating system. But I would take players like Sabbonis, Sacre, Olynyk, and many of the rest of our foreign players. Also, when you look at our transfers, I think Few and company have done very well there also. Yes, I would like to see us get many of our in state and national players. The last few years we have been able to compete and I think this will just get better.

DixieZag
01-31-2015, 05:13 PM
Maybe, but to me a very very young Anne Archer. She would do well as our Mrs Curry or Mrs Hansborough honey shot.

Exactly what I thought. Mrs. Curry territory.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 05:26 PM
Who cares? Recruiting rankings don't play basketball; players do. And ours play better than most every team in the nation on a yearly basis.
Why can't we break into the Top 40 2015 recruiting list according to ESPN? LINK (http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2015/date/20150130)

Zagceo
01-31-2015, 05:50 PM
Who cares? Recruiting rankings don't play basketball; players do. And ours play better than most every team in the nation on a yearly basis.

You're the one that seems to care I just asked a question. But thanks for the in depth reply.

maynard g krebs
01-31-2015, 05:56 PM
Who cares? Recruiting rankings don't play basketball; players do. And ours play better than most every team in the nation on a yearly basis.

That's a different issue though. The fact is that Gonzaga, because of conf affiliation, size, etc. can't normally win straight up recruiting battles with UK, Duke, Arizona, UNC, etc. GU needs to out-evaluate the big schools, identify kids who fit the system, and get in early to develop relationships to beat out the top 5-10 programs on elite US recruits.

Vanzagger
01-31-2015, 07:13 PM
i'm sorry, but wcc affiliation makes it impossible for the zags to be "one of the heavyweights." fact of life - top 50 kids in general don't want to play outside the bcs.

Our affiliation with the Kennel Club makes it impossible for the Zags not to be "one of the heavyweights"

ZagaZags
01-31-2015, 07:19 PM
Our affiliation with the Kennel Club makes it impossible for the Zags not to be "one of the heavyweights"

+1 The Kennel Club is killing it tonight.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 08:33 PM
Any early reports from the recruits?

tyra
01-31-2015, 08:33 PM
Nolan will come here. . . His mom will travel to the Kennel for every game. . . The camera will repeatedly cut to her during timeouts and whenever Nolan does something good (which will be often). . . The future is bright.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 08:44 PM
Nolan will come here. . . His mom will travel to the Kennel for every game. . . The camera will repeatedly cut to her during timeouts and whenever Nolan does something good (which will be often). . . The future is bright.

Early inside scoop?

Zagdawg
01-31-2015, 09:56 PM
Mom and Dad looked like they were enjoying themselves--it looked like they were enjoying the Kennel club----Hard to say with Nolan-- he looked interested.

thespywhozaggedme
01-31-2015, 09:58 PM
Tyra said he will come here. Will. That's a very encouraging sign.
Mom and Dad looked like they were enjoying themselves--it looked like they were enjoying the Kennel club----Hard to say with Nolan-- he looked interested.

scrooner
01-31-2015, 10:22 PM
Uh...we're #3 in the national and a a perennial top 25 team; we are "one of the heavyweights". It always amazes me how many of our own fans don't realize how major of a program we truly are.

It always amazes me how many of our recruits don't realize how major of a program we truly are.

WallaWallaZag
02-01-2015, 03:57 AM
NONSENSE. We've transcended conference affiliation. Some serious self loating in this thread.

get back to me when the zags are consistently in the running for top 25 kids...zags wouldn't be losing recruits to the likes of romar if the zags had actually transcended conference affiliation.

Stache
02-01-2015, 04:39 AM
Does anyone care what our recruiting classes rank? I'll take being a top 10 basketball team over being a top recruiting program every day. Just ask the Huskies!!!

WallaWallaZag
02-01-2015, 05:20 AM
Does anyone care what our recruiting classes rank? I'll take being a top 10 basketball team over being a top recruiting program every day. Just ask the Huskies!!!

don't really care about rankings but would love to see what few could do with a pangos that could break defenses down off the dribble and throw down at the rim...aka john wall, derrick rose, kyre irving etc.

hooter73
02-01-2015, 09:12 AM
Most of our most impactful players were never ranked

Mantua
02-01-2015, 04:28 PM
Does anyone care what our recruiting classes rank? I'll take being a top 10 basketball team over being a top recruiting program every day. Just ask the Huskies!!!

I would love to see GU recruit All Americans! Sabonis would have been All American if he had played in the U.S. And we've had other international players who would have been sought out. Domas has instantly contributed to this season's success. Being able to consistently recruit freshmen with his abilities would be fantastic.

So far the coaches have been very creative, finding talent in Europe and at home and developing talent, but they have been working against the grain all these years.

thespywhozaggedme
02-01-2015, 05:06 PM
Honest question: how old are you? If recruiting rankings made a team great, ND would be in the championship every year instead of an irrelevant mediocre team. To repeat we are a perennial top 25 team in the nation and a national name brand. It's not our fault that Scout is too lazy to rank most Canadians and Euro kids. Sabonis is a 5* but just happened to play ball overseas. T
get back to me when the zags are consistently in the running for top 25 kids...zags wouldn't be losing recruits to the likes of romar if the zags had actually transcended conference affiliation.

thespywhozaggedme
02-01-2015, 05:08 PM
All three were one and done kids, and lol @ what Few could do with them. What about the 200 other programs that don't get this generational type players. So much entitlement on this board.
don't really care about rankings but would love to see what few could do with a pangos that could break defenses down off the dribble and throw down at the rim...aka john wall, derrick rose, kyre irving etc.

DixieZag
02-01-2015, 05:32 PM
Was anything out on twitter or anything about how the visit went?

Perhaps if we mentioned one last time how young and...vibrant, his mother looked, we'd at least be number one in certain influential people's hearts.

WallaWallaZag
02-01-2015, 05:38 PM
Honest question: how old are you? If recruiting rankings made a team great, ND would be in the championship every year instead of an irrelevant mediocre team. To repeat we are a perennial top 25 team in the nation and a national name brand. It's not our fault that Scout is too lazy to rank most Canadians and Euro kids. Sabonis is a 5* but just happened to play ball overseas. T

reading comprehension...i stated i didn't care about recruiting rankings...but the fact remains that the zags wouldn't need to be creative with their recruiting if they had truly transcended their conference affiliation, which is your statement that led to this discussion in the first place...which also has nothing to do with entitlement.

btw -- who is ND? notre dame? they don't usually get the mickey d's as far as i know...

thespywhozaggedme
02-01-2015, 07:59 PM
reading comprehension...i stated i didn't care about recruiting rankings...but the fact remains that the zags wouldn't need to be creative with their recruiting if they had truly transcended their conference affiliation, which is your statement that led to this discussion in the first place...which also has nothing to do with entitlement.

btw -- who is ND? notre dame? they don't usually get the mickey d's as far as i know...

I meant in football, sorry for being vague. You imply that recruiting rankings determine the worthiness of a team, not their actual on the court/field performance. ND routinely gets top 10 classes in fb, yet they're irrelevant on the field.

Zagceo
02-01-2015, 08:27 PM
NONSENSE. We've transcended conference affiliation. Some serious self loating in this thread.


Disagree 100%, the two are not mutually exclusive. Two 6'5 combo guards will be a defensive nightmare for the opposition, as someone already mentioned.


Who cares? Recruiting rankings don't play basketball; players do. And ours play better than most every team in the nation on a yearly basis.


Honest question: how old are you? If recruiting rankings made a team great, ND would be in the championship every year instead of an irrelevant mediocre team. To repeat we are a perennial top 25 team in the nation and a national name brand. It's not our fault that Scout is too lazy to rank most Canadians and Euro kids. Sabonis is a 5* but just happened to play ball overseas. T


All three were one and done kids, and lol @ what Few could do with them. What about the 200 other programs that don't get this generational type players. So much entitlement on this board.

You are self projecting imo with this "entitlement" accusation when you begin your posts with these type of antagonistic words. Taking my own advice and using the ignore feature.

JAGzag
02-01-2015, 08:29 PM
Was anything out on twitter or anything about how the visit went?

Perhaps if we mentioned one last time how young and...vibrant, his mother looked, we'd at least be number one in certain influential people's hearts.

Bump. Would love to hear an assessment on how the trips went - nothing from/about these two huge recruits??

Robzagnut
02-01-2015, 08:37 PM
You are self projecting imo with this "entitlement" accusation when you begin your posts with these type of antagonistic words. Taking my own advice and using the ignore feature.

Thicker skin.

If you're going to post in a forum with as many passionate fans as the one here, you're going to have to not take everything personally and grow thicker skin. Otherwise, you'll put everyone on ignore and end up talking with yourself.

Marcus
02-01-2015, 08:40 PM
Bump. Would love to hear an assessment on how the trips went - nothing from/about these two huge recruits??

I haven't figured out how to copy a tweet to this message but Nolans dad tweeted, "Thank you ZaggMBB for hosting us this weekend! You guys def do it right. Much appreciated". He also had a pic of the Zags bench from where they were sitting.

ZagaZags
02-01-2015, 10:45 PM
I haven't figured out how to copy a tweet to this message but Nolans dad tweeted, "Thank you ZaggMBB for hosting us this weekend! You guys def do it right. Much appreciated". He also had a pic of the Zags bench from where they were sitting.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B80AE3nIAAA7OTL.jpg:large

Zagceo
02-01-2015, 11:05 PM
Thicker skin.

If you're going to post in a forum with as many passionate fans as the one here, you're going to have to not take everything personally and grow thicker skin. Otherwise, you'll put everyone on ignore and end up talking with yourself.

Funny post! Believe me the last thing I ever do is take anything personally especially from a zag with nut in his name. 😊

Big Bulldog
02-02-2015, 04:49 AM
Nolan was seen around campus Fri & Sat with his parents & the coaching staff. He was also out with players on Fri & Sat night in tent city & the dorms. He looked like he was enjoying himself so let's hope he lands here & becomes a Zag!

WallaWallaZag
02-02-2015, 06:12 AM
I meant in football, sorry for being vague. You imply that recruiting rankings determine the worthiness of a team, not their actual on the court/field performance. ND routinely gets top 10 classes in fb, yet they're irrelevant on the field.

not sure where you got the idea that i think recruiting rankings determine the worthiness of a team...i think the zags are a top 10 program right now...that doesn't mean that they've transcended their conference, especially in regards to recruiting...the need to identify players like cunliffe & narain before they have a chance to blow up is a strong indicator of this fact...if they become top 25 level and the real big boys come calling, zags likely get left hanging. some seem to think that a final four run would change this dynamic but i'm not so sure...

SWZag
02-02-2015, 07:31 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B80AE3nIAAA7OTL.jpg:large

Thanks for sharing. Not exactly sure what Rem is up to this time! :)


ETA: His twitter shows he's been stuck in Louisville. Seems he was excited to be in Spokane.
https://twitter.com/Nolan12Narain

hooter73
02-02-2015, 07:53 AM
Can you morons take your measuring to PMs or another thread (or site) and not muddy up a current recruit's thread that gets seen by more people than you realize? Mods clean up maybe?

3zagda
02-02-2015, 08:16 AM
Know what I find intereting about that picture?
JP wears a watch! I thought it was only old folks like me that still where watches.
Or maybe it is a fitness tracker?

WallaWallaZag
02-02-2015, 08:28 AM
Can you morons take your measuring to PMs or another thread (or site) and not muddy up a current recruit's thread that gets seen by more people than you realize? Mods clean up maybe?

doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of info coming out after such a big visit from two top recruits, at least compared to recent history...easy for threads to get side-tracked when there's a lack of relevant posts.

on a positive note, all 4 votes in 247 crystal ball projections regarding narain are for gonzaga currently (and 5 out of 6 for collins - the one exception being zona). cunliffe not listed (yet). would be curious to know the success rate of initial crystal ball projections rather than final projections after all the voters flip-flop right before an actual commitment announcement.

hooter73
02-02-2015, 09:45 AM
Collins and Narain would be a great combination!

thespywhozaggedme
02-02-2015, 10:29 AM
not sure where you got the idea that i think recruiting rankings determine the worthiness of a team...i think the zags are a top 10 program right now...that doesn't mean that they've transcended their conference, especially in regards to recruiting...the need to identify players like cunliffe & narain before they have a chance to blow up is a strong indicator of this fact...if they become top 25 level and the real big boys come calling, zags likely get left hanging. some seem to think that a final four run would change this dynamic but i'm not so sure...

You did it again. WE ARE THE "REAL BIG BOYS". That's what I mean by self loathing fans; we're #2 in the nation, a perennial top 25 team in the country, on ESPN every week, have the nations longest home court winning streak and our fans stil have an inferiority complex.

229SintoZag
02-02-2015, 10:45 AM
I meant in football, sorry for being vague. You imply that recruiting rankings determine the worthiness of a team, not their actual on the court/field performance. ND routinely gets top 10 classes in fb, yet they're irrelevant on the field.

Irrelevant? I could have sworn they just played for a national title a year or two back. Sure, they got trounced, but they were there playing for all the marbles.

Hardly "irrelevant." If that's irrelevant, I hope Gonzaga can be irrelevant some day.

And I hate ND football by the way.

seacatfan
02-02-2015, 12:43 PM
if they become top 25 level and the real big boys come calling, zags likely get left hanging. some seem to think that a final four run would change this dynamic but i'm not so sure...

I don't think Butler saw a significant upswing in it's recruiting after going to the Title Game two years in a row. I'm not sure that George Mason, VCU or Wichita St. started getting a different type of player than they were able to get prior to making Final 4 runs. It is what it is. I think Gonzaga will continue to be successful bringing in the players they are able to recruit. They will occasionally beat out some high profile programs for players like Austin Daye and Josh Perkins, but I can't see them ever reeling in McD's AA type players regularly and competing on the recruiting trail with the likes of Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc.

CDC84
02-02-2015, 01:28 PM
I don't think Butler saw a significant upswing in it's recruiting after going to the Title Game two years in a row. I'm not sure that George Mason, VCU or Wichita St. started getting a different type of player than they were able to get prior to making Final 4 runs. It is what it is. I think Gonzaga will continue to be successful bringing in the players they are able to recruit. They will occasionally beat out some high profile programs for players like Austin Daye and Josh Perkins, but I can't see them ever reeling in McD's AA type players regularly and competing on the recruiting trail with the likes of Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc.

The problem that Butler, VCU, GMU, etc. have is their location. Those schools were not located in a geographic region to take advantage of recruiting after their final fours because they're surrounded by BCS conferences and top flight BCS teams. It's still really, really hard for those teams to land top 100 recruits. Also, some of the teams have experienced coaching changes. As for the guys who have stayed on....I doubt that Shaka Smart and Gregg Marshall will be at their schools as long as Few has.

The Zags are in a much better place to take advantage of recruiting because they are located in what is normally a talent rich area with very few D-1 schools, and bunch of BCS teams that they can beat out for players. This is one of the secret reasons why this program rose to prominence in the late 90's. Their location. They are also one of the elite programs in the west, and they have a national brand name that is much more powerful than other programs outside the BCS leagues. They have constant exposure on ESPN, a multi-million buck TV deal with Root Sports, an elite arena, chartered planes, and an elite coach who just won't leave.

I think a final four appearance would result in a rise in recruiting that we haven't seen since 2006. I predict it would result in GU landing a McDonald's AA or two (maybe not in the same class). They would have more chances to pull in more top 50 caliber players. I would imagine the staff would recruit aggressively. The number one thing that is used againt GU in the recruiting wars is their conference affiliation. Those arguments have less resonance if the team shows it can make final fours.

It would of course not result in them recruiting at a blood blood like level. You need years and years of final four appearances and national titles to get your program to that point. You need way more history than the Zags have. Probably more money as well.

Kiddwell
02-02-2015, 02:23 PM
Off of what CDC84 says (above), Kiddwell thinks the WCC would improve its image if only Pepperdine would hurry up and build their new arena/sports facility and some fat cat alums from SMC would bankroll a DECENT and MODERN venue too. SMC is gonna fall off the face of the earth (WCC relevance-wise), if they don't get out of that crackerbox.

No offense to SMC alums, students, or players--but the place is Webster's definition of "high school."

One of the purported recruiting jabs against topnotch recruits choosing GU is the teams/venues GU has to play against/in. If the Zags' conference foes would build up, they'd improve their own recruiting, GU's recruiting, the WCC's national stature, etc. It's win/win for everyone who loves the West Coast Conference.

Build, Pepperdine! Build, SMC! Build, build, build!


:]

seacatfan
02-02-2015, 02:25 PM
The problem that Butler, VCU, GMU, etc. have is their location. Those schools were not located in a geographic region to take advantage of recruiting after their final fours because they're surrounded by BCS conferences and top flight BCS teams. It's still really, really hard for those teams to land top 100 recruits. Also, some of the teams have experienced coaching changes. As for the guys who have stayed on....I doubt that Shaka Smart and Gregg Marshall will be at their schools as long as Few has.

The Zags are in a much better place to take advantage of recruiting because they are located in what is normally a talent rich area with very few D-1 schools, and bunch of BCS teams that they can beat out for players. This is one of the secret reasons why this program rose to prominence in the late 90's. Their location. They are also one of the elite programs in the west, and they have a national brand name that is much more powerful than other programs outside the BCS leagues. They have constant exposure on ESPN, a multi-million buck TV deal with Root Sports, an elite arena, chartered planes, and an elite coach who just won't leave.

I think a final four appearance would result in a rise in recruiting that we haven't seen since 2006. I predict it would result in GU landing a McDonald's AA or two (maybe not in the same class). They would have more chances to pull in more top 50 caliber players. I would imagine the staff would recruit aggressively. The number one thing that is used againt GU in the recruiting wars is their conference affiliation. Those arguments have less resonance if the team shows it can make final fours.

It would of course not result in them recruiting at a blood blood like level. You need years and years of final four appearances and national titles to get your program to that point. You need way more history than the Zags have. Probably more money as well.

Interesting thoughts. I think I disagree about the geographic advantages. Those others schools are back east, much denser populations, more high level recruits. There are way more schools, but a deeper talent pool to go around. The Great Lakes area states produce a ton of talent, they don't all end up in the Big 10. VCU and George Mason are in one of the best recruiting areas in the country, DC area/Baltimore/Northern Virginia produces a lot of talent. Again you are competing against a bunch of other schools, but some are going to slip past the ACC/Big East/SEC, etc. Now Wichita St. is kinda screwed. Texas produces a bunch of talent but Oklahoma/Kansas, not so much and they have a real uphill battle going against Big 12 schools in recruiting.

Washington has been kinda boom and bust in talent, but most of it is on the West side of the state and we've seen for years that the Zags have a hard time breaking through and getting those kids. I'm sure there are multiple reasons why, but they rarely beat out UW for a recruit even though the Huskies have been mediocre for years. Portland is kinda boom and bust as well. The Zags aren't competing with very many schools in the Northwest for that talent, but there isn't a very deep pool to draw from. And then it really isn't just the Pac 12 schools from the Northwest, the entire conference goes after those kids. The real blue chippers from Seattle and Portland areas historically have gone to schools all over the country, there is no fence keeping all the best talent close to home. Also almost everyone in the Pac 12 has to recruit California, that's where most of the talent on the West Coast is found. GU has had a few Cali kids over the years, but not many.

I'm sure the Zags recruiting has evolved quite a bit since the Elite 8 appearance in '99. They can definitely get a foot in the door with some kids they wouldn't have been able to do previously. Still they've had to supplement their recruiting significantly with players from Europe and Canada. Think about where the Zags would've been recently without Sacre, Harris, Olynk, Pangos, Karnowski. There would've been some lean years.

Basically there isn't a recruiting advantage to being in Spokane. It's fairly isolated, not much talent in their immediate area, and there appears to be a significant barrier to securing the talent that comes from the other side of the state. They've obviously continued to bring in quality players and put a good product on the floor. There are kids that want to be Zags, they happen to come from all over the country and outside the US borders. There are a lot of kids looking for a different kind of experience than GU has to offer, and I suspect one Final 4 run wouldn't do much to change that. But I could be totally wrong. Hopefully they'll make a deep run in the Tourney, and then we can find out.

ZagDad84
02-02-2015, 02:28 PM
Paul Westphal once quipped that all he had to do was have a recruit visit Malibu and he would show them the beaches then show them a picture of Spokane in January and asked were they would like to go to school. When Few was asked his opinion of Westphal's recruiting method, Mark responded; I simply would ask a recruit where would you rather be in March, laying on the beach in Malibu or playing basketball?

No matter how good GU shows, it can not match the facilities and features that many of the big 5 schools offer. Unfortunately for most of the Mickey'D's recruits, they all think they are going to start as freshman and be the next John Wall. It is nice that you have gone to 16 straight NCAA tournaments, when was the last time you made the final four? Elite Eight ? O'k how many times? It is very easy to sell a recruit and their parents on the niceties offered by the school, their past records and accomplishments, the facilities, the conferences, the location, etc. It is only after they attend the school they originally selected that they realize it may not be all the roses they were told about in the recruiting process. I heard KU has eight all-americans on their roster. That means at least three are riding the pine for some or most of the game. Next year won't be any better because they are going to bring in another 4-5 all-americans. GU has become a hot bed for transfers because these are guys who initially drank the kool-aid and have now decided that attending a school which makes the tournament every year, will help develop you into a better all-around player, may allow you to play a different position or role, is more important than attending the big name school. According to an article on Wesley, his dad did not want him to go to GU, he did not want him that far away, but Wesley decided that GU was for him. Hard for an 18 year old kid to make the same decision.

I attended a Vanderbilt-Florida basketball game a few years back in a "white-out" game played at Vandy. The MAC is just as loud and the students even more boisterous but having 20,000 fans wearing and waving white trumps 6,000 fans. The training facilities in many cases are much nicer and larger than GU's. It goes on and on. The recruit has to look beyond the facade and look to the meat and potatoes, but most young kids do not see this. I don't think the issue is with the recruiters, considering what we have accomplished over the past 16+ years, they have done very well. But I think we will continue to be top-tier transfer university more than we will be an initial stop for Mickey-D All-Americans. But we should keep trying and maybe will will get that recruit.

ZagDad

Zagceo
02-02-2015, 02:57 PM
Its simple Gonzaga sells the same product as San Antonio good team basketball with high IQ players.

ZagDad84
02-02-2015, 02:59 PM
Its simple Gonzaga sells the same product as San Antonio good team basketball with high IQ players.

Except without the championships.

Note that I see that SA cut Austin Daye a couple of weeks ago.

ZagDad

DixieZag
02-02-2015, 03:08 PM
Paul Westphal once quipped that all he had to do was have a recruit visit Malibu and he would show them the beaches then show them a picture of Spokane in January and asked were they would like to go to school. When Few was asked his opinion of Westphal's recruiting method, Mark responded; I simply would ask a recruit where would you rather be in March, laying on the beach in Malibu or playing basketball?

No matter how good GU shows, it can not match the facilities and features that many of the big 5 schools offer. Unfortunately for most of the Mickey'D's recruits, they all think they are going to start as freshman and be the next John Wall. It is nice that you have gone to 16 straight NCAA tournaments, when was the last time you made the final four? Elite Eight ? O'k how many times? It is very easy to sell a recruit and their parents on the niceties offered by the school, their past records and accomplishments, the facilities, the conferences, the location, etc. It is only after they attend the school they originally selected that they realize it may not be all the roses they were told about in the recruiting process. I heard KU has eight all-americans on their roster. That means at least three are riding the pine for some or most of the game. Next year won't be any better because they are going to bring in another 4-5 all-americans. GU has become a hot bed for transfers because these are guys who initially drank the kool-aid and have now decided that attending a school which makes the tournament every year, will help develop you into a better all-around player, may allow you to play a different position or role, is more important than attending the big name school. According to an article on Wesley, his dad did not want him to go to GU, he did not want him that far away, but Wesley decided that GU was for him. Hard for an 18 year old kid to make the same decision.

I attended a Vanderbilt-Florida basketball game a few years back in a "white-out" game played at Vandy. The MAC is just as loud and the students even more boisterous but having 20,000 fans wearing and waving white trumps 6,000 fans. The training facilities in many cases are much nicer and larger than GU's. It goes on and on. The recruit has to look beyond the facade and look to the meat and potatoes, but most young kids do not see this. I don't think the issue is with the recruiters, considering what we have accomplished over the past 16+ years, they have done very well. But I think we will continue to be top-tier transfer university more than we will be an initial stop for Mickey-D All-Americans. But we should keep trying and maybe will will get that recruit.

ZagDad

I agree that most recruits do not see the more fundamental layer. The good part is when you find a kid that does, one ends up with a Kevin Pangos, or a Gary Bell, or hell, even Josh Perkins and Melson. In that way, it's kind of self-selecting. We don't worry about Gary or Kevin showing up in the Spokane Police blotter, we don't need to worry about Melson and Perkins going on academic probation.

The family feel of the Zags may not land that many 5 stars, (Sabonis' excepted), but the 3 to 4s that do come are the ones everyone wants around a program anyway and that's how a team can build on less than 40 recruiting classes and compete in the top 10.

MDABE80
02-02-2015, 03:09 PM
All the bullchit aside....does ANYONE know anything about how the visits went. Did we sign either? Did they just tip the hat and go home? Doesn ANYBODY know?

Try staying on point. Geeeeeeeeeez wading through the insults, the cute quips and such nearly makes the point of the topic "distant".

CDC84
02-02-2015, 03:31 PM
I'm sure the Zags recruiting has evolved quite a bit since the Elite 8 appearance in '99. They can definitely get a foot in the door with some kids they wouldn't have been able to do previously. Still they've had to supplement their recruiting significantly with players from Europe and Canada. Think about where the Zags would've been recently without Sacre, Harris, Olynk, Pangos, Karnowski. There would've been some lean years.

BTW - this recruiting philosophy will not change, I feel, even if Gonzaga were to make 3 final fours in the next 5 years. Tommy has got the thing going now to where he won't bring in a guy who doesn't have pro potential. Karnowski and Sabonis would've been Burger Boys had they played in the states. As long as Tommy remains on the staff, it makes sense to go after the international kids because GU doesn't have to fight off as many great teams to land them. They can establish relationships with guys like Karnowski that Ohio State, Duke and Kansas (who all tried to recruit him when he first visited the states) aren't willing to because they can get comparable players in the states quite easily.

I realize that we see a lot of non-BCS schools who recruit international kids, but GU is doing it at different level and for different reasons now. They'd rather take a guy like Sabonis than a 6-9 power forward from Colorado who they can land who is rated at #85. The typical non-BCS team goes after international big guys because they can't get an American center on their roster who stands taller than 6-7.

I still feel that schools like Butler and VCU are hampered by their geography to a degree. With Butler academics and coaching philosophy also get involved. A guy like Shaka Smart has about as much enthusiasm and personality as any coach in the country, and he still has trouble consistently landing recruits like Steven Gray (#64), Gary Bell (#75), Matt Bouldin (#45), Josh Perkins (#67), etc., despite his final four appearance. He just has to fight off too many teams to get these kids. If Gonzaga has an opening in its rotation, and they really focus on a kid out west who is rated somewhere in that 40-70 range, I have pretty good confidence that this staff could land him.

Talent in the Pacific NW and on the eastern side of the state in recent times is certainly not what it once was. But it has always been a place where you can hide players. Imagine how many BCS teams Kyle Dranginis would be starting for? If Casey Calvary had grown up in Chicago - even with his injuries - he would've played in the Big 10. Same goes for Richie Frahm, Matt Santangelo, etc. These were really high major players hiding out in no man's land at a time when Oregon State couldn't recognize a player if it stood right in front of them. Part of what made this program was Few, Grier and Monson recognizing this.

MDABE80
02-02-2015, 03:44 PM
I think, too, that these two kids would solve quite a few problems. I said last JUly, all we really need are these two kids. SOmebody above we also need a big to sign........I fully agree. For me though, I'd rather have a 6 ft 9 in leaper who loves to rebound and score. Maybe they have those hidden somewhere in the US but if not, find a bulkier Sabonis.

seacatfan
02-02-2015, 05:51 PM
I still feel that schools like Butler and VCU are hampered by their geography to a degree. With Butler academics and coaching philosophy also get involved. A guy like Shaka Smart has about as much enthusiasm and personality as any coach in the country, and he still has trouble consistently landing recruits like Steven Gray (#64), Gary Bell (#75), Matt Bouldin (#45), Josh Perkins (#67), etc., despite his final four appearance. He just has to fight off too many teams to get these kids. If Gonzaga has an opening in its rotation, and they really focus on a kid out west who is rated somewhere in that 40-70 range, I have pretty good confidence that this staff could land him.

Talent in the Pacific NW and on the eastern side of the state in recent times is certainly not what it once was. But it has always been a place where you can hide players. Imagine how many BCS teams Kyle Dranginis would be starting for? If Casey Calvary had grown up in Chicago - even with his injuries - he would've played in the Big 10. Same goes for Richie Frahm, Matt Santangelo, etc. These were really high major players hiding out in no man's land at a time when Oregon State couldn't recognize a player if it stood right in front of them. Part of what made this program was Few, Grier and Monson recognizing this.

Fair enough points. Morrison was another guy that was somehow under the radar playing HS ball in Spokane despite the fact he was obviously a baller.

UW doesn't get all the top players out of the Seattle area, but they do a decent job. Seems like both UO and OSU haven't had that much success getting the top players out of Portland area going back as far as I can remember. Obviously both are south down I-5 and not "in" Portland, but they aren't all that far.

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-02-2015, 06:26 PM
BTW - this recruiting philosophy will not change, I feel, even if Gonzaga were to make 3 final fours in the next 5 years. Tommy has got the thing going now to where he won't bring in a guy who doesn't have pro potential. Karnowski and Sabonis would've been Burger Boys had they played in the states. As long as Tommy remains on the staff, it makes sense to go after the international kids because GU doesn't have to fight off as many great teams to land them. They can establish relationships with guys like Karnowski that Ohio State, Duke and Kansas (who all tried to recruit him when he first visited the states) aren't willing to because they can get comparable players in the states quite easily.

I realize that we see a lot of non-BCS schools who recruit international kids, but GU is doing it at different level and for different reasons now. They'd rather take a guy like Sabonis than a 6-9 power forward from Colorado who they can land who is rated at #85. The typical non-BCS team goes after international big guys because they can't get an American center on their roster who stands taller than 6-7.

I still feel that schools like Butler and VCU are hampered by their geography to a degree. With Butler academics and coaching philosophy also get involved. A guy like Shaka Smart has about as much enthusiasm and personality as any coach in the country, and he still has trouble consistently landing recruits like Steven Gray (#64), Gary Bell (#75), Matt Bouldin (#45), Josh Perkins (#67), etc., despite his final four appearance. He just has to fight off too many teams to get these kids. If Gonzaga has an opening in its rotation, and they really focus on a kid out west who is rated somewhere in that 40-70 range, I have pretty good confidence that this staff could land him.

Talent in the Pacific NW and on the eastern side of the state in recent times is certainly not what it once was. But it has always been a place where you can hide players. Imagine how many BCS teams Kyle Dranginis would be starting for? If Casey Calvary had grown up in Chicago - even with his injuries - he would've played in the Big 10. Same goes for Richie Frahm, Matt Santangelo, etc. These were really high major players hiding out in no man's land at a time when Oregon State couldn't recognize a player if it stood right in front of them. Part of what made this program was Few, Grier and Monson recognizing this.

Excellent analysis of Zags' recruiting philosophy
Thanks, CDC, for sharing the kind of post that keeps me tuned in to this site. All the soap opera back -and-forth posts that hijack good thread topics is tiresome.

ZagDad84
02-02-2015, 06:33 PM
All the bullchit aside....does ANYONE know anything about how the visits went. Did we sign either? Did they just tip the hat and go home? Doesn ANYBODY know?

Try staying on point. Geeeeeeeeeez wading through the insults, the cute quips and such nearly makes the point of the topic "distant".


Don't mean "chit" as you say until they sign the letters of intent and show up on campus.

All you can do at this point is guess.

Live with it.

ZagDad

3zagda
02-02-2015, 06:37 PM
I just don't see how we will ever compete with the Blue Bloods, ever have much appeal to the "One and Dones". That is fine with me. That's not us.
Personally, I prefer Gonzaga's approach.
IMHO we can thank Gonzaga's Jesuit Tradition for why the Zags have such a rabid following. Also it attracts many of our top recruits. Some recognize the school's focus on the education, and developing the person, not just the basketball player. This has attracted many young men and their families looking for that Gonzaga Experience.
I have loved the opportunity to watch our players develop at Gonzaga year after year. Since my first kid started attending GU in 2001, I have had the pleasure to follow so many young men develop for three or four years in our system. In that time we get to know them very well.
I was going to list a few players over those years I have loved watching develop, but the list became too long quickly. Can anyone make a short list of ytheir favorite players over the last 10 years or so? There are so many, its hard. These young men develop a huge fan base over the years.
Hopefully Nolan and Sam are the type of young men interested in the Gonzaga Experience as well as ESPN limelight. If they deserve the limelight, surely they will get it here.
Go Zags!

WallaWallaZag
02-02-2015, 07:42 PM
I realize that we see a lot of non-BCS schools who recruit international kids, but GU is doing it at different level and for different reasons now. They'd rather take a guy like Sabonis than a 6-9 power forward from Colorado who they can land who is rated at #85. The typical non-BCS team goes after international big guys because they can't get an American center on their roster who stands taller than 6-7.

i agree with this, however i also think that sabonis is a once in 5 year player (maybe more). and most young euro's at his level would probably opt to sign pro and/or jump straight to the nba, so i don't think the zags can count on consistently bringing in euro mickey d equivalents...sabonis was/is a unique set of circumstances.

the #85 6-9 pf from colorado scenario where the zags have a very good shot that you described sounds a little bit like nolan narain to me, though i think he'll end up top 50 when it's all said and done :D

CDC84
02-02-2015, 09:06 PM
I agree when it comes to Sabonis - he's a special circumstance. But still, Karnowski and Elias Harris would've either have been Burger Boys or top 40 kids had they played in the states. Obviously, Tommy is not going to find international players like these kids in every recruiting class. The general point is that I don't think the recruitment of high level international players would end if Gonzaga were to open more recruiting doors here in the states.

Zagceo
02-02-2015, 09:23 PM
I agree when it comes to Sabonis - he's a special circumstance. But still, Karnowski and Elias Harris would've either have been Burger Boys or top 40 kids had they played in the states. Obviously, Tommy is not going to find international players like these kids in every recruiting class. The general point is that I don't think the recruitment of high level international players would end if Gonzaga were to open more recruiting doors here in the states.

I wouldn't bet against the International pool expanding if the tread continues down to high school level like Findlay Prep in Vegas.

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/ScreenShot2015-02-02at50541PM_zpsd303adc0.png

WallaWallaZag
02-02-2015, 10:31 PM
I wouldn't bet against the International pool expanding if the tread continues down to high school level like Findlay Prep in Vegas.

unfortunately i think the zags have a better shot at these kids if they stayed home...once they get into the us prep system they get steered towards the bcs teams or local like unlv.

SWZag
02-04-2015, 11:56 AM
Slipper Still Fits: Cunliffe Talks Memphis Visit And Recruiting (http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2015/2/4/7977147/cunliffe-talks-memphis-visit-and-recruiting)


While Cunliffe and his family were able to attend the Battle in Seattle, going to game on campus was much a different experience.

"It's 100% different," the Bishop Blanchet star said with a laugh. "It was crazy in The Kennel the whole time You can tell that the experience at Gonzaga is special and different from other places."

During the game, the 2016 combo guard was focused on the team and the coaching staff.

"If you would have looked at me sitting there in the crowd, you'd be thinking that kid doesn't care what is happening," said Cunliffe. "I was just watching Coach Few and noticing how he and the team reacted to everything. I was kind of really taking in the whole experience."


"At this point, I have a lot of different schools coming after me. I want to go somewhere that is best for me to develop my character and develop as a basketball player. Out of all the schools that are recruiting me right now, Gonzaga is in the top two and I can say they will remain in that top group until the end."

hooter73
02-04-2015, 12:50 PM
Just rewatched Sams highlight vids. That kid is impressive for having such a well rounded game. Handles, drives, floaters, quick jump shot, hopps... but what I really like is he corrects mistakes, stays with it. If he looses a handle, he doesnt give up. If he can rebound (highlight vids dont highlight rebounding of course), with his size and ability to go one on one, he would make an excellent point/wing the kind that we havent had for a lot of years.

sittingon50
02-04-2015, 01:12 PM
Slipper Still Fits: Cunliffe Talks Memphis Visit And Recruiting (http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2015/2/4/7977147/cunliffe-talks-memphis-visit-and-recruiting)

I like what he says.