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View Full Version : Does Gonzaga have three first rounders in the front court?



NYCZAG
01-23-2015, 11:29 AM
Thoughts-Opinions?-

CDC84
01-23-2015, 11:33 AM
I doubt it with Karnowski and Wiltjer. Sabonis has a chance with development.

I would be surprised if Wiltjer gets drafted. He is just too weak defensively, lacks athleticism, is undersized, etc. He's going to make a lot of bread in Europe, though.

hooter73
01-23-2015, 11:36 AM
No.

Zag_Dad
01-23-2015, 11:38 AM
I think we have three NBA players in our front court but wouldn't go so far as to say three first rounders. Maybe one.

Zagger
01-23-2015, 11:40 AM
I doubt it with Karnowski and Wiltjer. Sabonis has a chance with development.

I would be surprised if Wiltjer gets drafted. He is just too weak defensively, lacks athleticism, is undersized, etc. He's going to make a lot of bread in Europe, though.

Another year as a Zag .... can't hurt Wiltjer's prospects nor his development. 'Course I'm driking the Koolaid but .... we'll see how March goes + next year for all 3. Some guys look good to go in high school - others take some time.

jpwils
01-23-2015, 11:51 AM
Another year as a Zag .... can't hurt Wiltjer's prospects nor his development. 'Course I'm driking the Koolaid but .... we'll see how March goes + next year for all 3. Some guys look good to go in high school - others take some time.

Possibly so. All 3 will get a look for sure! Wiltjer knows how to play the game and is a good passer. Sabonis is raw but needs some seasoning and work on offensive moves and jump shot. Karnowski is a force but needs to work on rebounding and not getting in foul trouble.

I think it is highly likely that Sabonis will be a first round pick some day; Wiltjer will possibly be a second round pick next year after an MVP-type season; not sure on Karnowski- but he could definitely be a backup center on an NBA team some day soon. I think Pangos may make a team as well....only time will tell . I'll be rooting for them all !

zag67
01-23-2015, 11:55 AM
I think that we have 2 or 3 first rounders and all three can play in the NBA. But they might end up making more in Europe. I do think that first round drafts are probably out this year, but next year I can see maybe two and one the following year. I only can see one going this year, but not a first rounder and with more experience I think that the other two will push being first rounders in following years.

gonzagafan62
01-23-2015, 12:00 PM
All three will play in NBA. Only sabonis has a chance at a 1st rounder.

jazzdelmar
01-23-2015, 12:04 PM
No. One lottery prospect. Two free agents.

zagamatic
01-23-2015, 01:04 PM
This year, no. There are a ton of quality bigs in this year's draft. Wouldn't be surprised to see both Karnowski and Wiltjer get drafted after next season. Sabonis could be a lottery pick the next year as I don't see him leaving school before a minimum of 3 years to get his degree. And I think that Edwards could very well get drafted the year after that. He's got the size, hands and touch that the NBA loves to develop. I think Sabonis is the closest to a for sure first round pick, but nothing is guaranteed (remember Harris? ). So to answer your question, I see at least 1 first round guy in our front court but 4 overall going pro. Which is pretty darn good even for Duke.

cjm720
01-23-2015, 01:07 PM
Sabonis definitely.

Karno maybe.

Wiltjer doubtful.

Edwards who knows.

That said, I could see all three playing in the NBA.

zags422
01-23-2015, 01:10 PM
Karnowski is starting to make me think he has a decent shot at a 1st round pick next year. You can't teach his size...he needs to continue to improve his agility, touch and most importantly (most lacking) the rebounding. Reminds me of a poor man's Andrew Bogut right now...he is light years ahead of last year!!

cjm720
01-23-2015, 01:11 PM
No. One lottery prospect. Two free agents.

How about Edwards?

ZagMan in Philly
01-23-2015, 01:13 PM
All three will be in the first round next year, if they keep on improving their game.
I really think Wiltjer has a good chance of going in the first. He can really shoot and create his own shots around the basket.
He needs to get stronger I agree, and work on his defense.
He reminds me of the great shooter Peja Stojakovic, drafted in the first round a few years ago. Peja had a fine career in the NBA and won a few
three point shooting contests along the way.

LongIslandZagFan
01-23-2015, 01:20 PM
KW has an outside chance (2nd rounder) as a stretch 4.
Karnowski... while I think he SHOULD be there, not sure he'll get there. But the flipside is... you can't teach 7-2.
Sabonis... he could evolve into a lottery pick.

DixieZag
01-23-2015, 01:40 PM
All I know is that the Lakers will likely pick one of them up, first or second.

I am more convinced they think Gonzaga produces good kids with good fundamentals. Elias got more of a look with them than he would with any other team.

Seems to me that Karno will get drafted, too much size to not get drafted, not sure which round.

Sabonis, yes.

KW - IF he becomes an absolute sniper he might stick, but no first round. Maybe second? With . . . Lakers?

Nevada Don
01-23-2015, 02:47 PM
This question has nothing to do with last nights result, nothing, absolutely nothing. Okay then, not that I've got the lie out of the way, I don't care if those three go in the first round as long as they go soon! Seriously, do you think they are all coming back to Gonzaga next year? I'd think that PK and Sabonis would have immediate options to turn professional in Europe. PK especially since it seems like the consensus is that he might not be an NBA prospect and I would agree with that. Sabonis is obviously the best of the three with a great upside as well. I'd guess the jury is still out on Wiltjer's NBA career but his outside shot will be a plus.

At least we know that KP will be out of here. Seven years (seems like) of torture for us is enough.

Zagger
01-23-2015, 03:02 PM
How about Edwards?

Dang, I'm often torn between three major brain occupiers: 1) Just how the Zags will do in their next game, 2) how the NCAA Tournament will go and, 3) next year without Kevin, Gary, Wesley and Angel. My common sense says to think only about the Tigers right now - beat the stripes off them then think about Portland/Memphis. In thinking about the NCAAs in the vein of this thread "first rounders" ... a lot rides on how the team does in March. If GU is fortunate enough to fight their way into the Final Four - it is going to be due to some awesome play by more than one Zag. The attention the team will get will put a larger spotlight on those Zags who contribute the most to the success and increase their NBA prospects. The team already has quite a bit of good press now and all indications are that that will continue into March. The Memphis game will also generate interest / garner more attention. In short, the stars sure seem to be aligned such that a number of Zags have good chances of ending up in the NBA due to what they are earning on the court at GU presently and what may transpire before June.
Go Zags! Stay Healthy! Beat Pacific!

As for Edwards .... he sure has it made at GU with the overall program and LOTS of good mentors. He'll likely do very well next year. I really can't see how he won't. He looked pretty darn good in the last couple games he played for GU.

DixieZag
01-23-2015, 03:03 PM
This question has nothing to do with last nights result, nothing, absolutely nothing. Okay then, not that I've got the lie out of the way, I don't care if those three go in the first round as long as they go soon! Seriously, do you think they are all coming back to Gonzaga next year? I'd think that PK and Sabonis would have immediate options to turn professional in Europe. PK especially since it seems like the consensus is that he might not be an NBA prospect and I would agree with that. Sabonis is obviously the best of the three with a great upside as well. I'd guess the jury is still out on Wiltjer's NBA career but his outside shot will be a plus.

At least we know that KP will be out of here. Seven years (seems like) of torture for us is enough.

The conventional wisdom around there is that Sabonis will stay at least two years b/c his family and he dearly want to be in college in the US (His father got denied the chance) He could have had a contract in Europe for $600,000 but turned it down. So, the thought is staying next year and even more likely than not his Junior year.

The thought on Karno is that he would be late first round if he went this year and could well move way up if he continued getting better his senior year.

I personally do not know. I am taking info from the people here that likely do.

Hoopaholic
01-23-2015, 03:32 PM
This question has nothing to do with last nights result, nothing, absolutely nothing. Okay then, not that I've got the lie out of the way, I don't care if those three go in the first round as long as they go soon! Seriously, do you think they are all coming back to Gonzaga next year? I'd think that PK and Sabonis would have immediate options to turn professional in Europe. PK especially since it seems like the consensus is that he might not be an NBA prospect and I would agree with that. Sabonis is obviously the best of the three with a great upside as well. I'd guess the jury is still out on Wiltjer's NBA career but his outside shot will be a plus.

At least we know that KP will be out of here. Seven years (seems like) of torture for us is enough.

I am happy to wager some very good scotch that they will all be back...........the ONLY one that might wavier is Wiltjer but I think it is a 50-50 right now and he appears to be having fun and continues to improve

I used to say that about DELLY I swear to god he played 9 years with SMC

zag buddy
01-23-2015, 03:38 PM
tx Nevada don, you made me laugh out loud. I think by next year they are all on the bubble of first round and definately will be drafted. How important is the ncaa tourny to them, Hugh.

hockeyzag
01-23-2015, 03:54 PM
I doubt it with Karnowski and Wiltjer. Sabonis has a chance with development.

I would be surprised if Wiltjer gets drafted. He is just too weak defensively, lacks athleticism, is undersized, etc. He's going to make a lot of bread in Europe, though.

What's your opinion on Karnowski as an NBA player? My opinion is if Sacre can find a place in the league, Karno definitely can. He continues to get better and you can't teach 7'1".

jazzdelmar
01-23-2015, 03:58 PM
Dang, I'm often torn between three major brain occupiers: 1) Just how the Zags will do in their next game, 2) how the NCAA Tournament will go and, 3) next year without Kevin, Gary, Wesley and Angel. My common sense says to think only about the Tigers right now - beat the stripes off them then think about Portland/Memphis. In thinking about the NCAAs in the vein of this thread "first rounders" ... a lot rides on how the team does in March. If GU is fortunate enough to fight their way into the Final Four - it is going to be due to some awesome play by more than one Zag. The attention the team will get will put a larger spotlight on those Zags who contribute the most to the success and increase their NBA prospects. The team already has quite a bit of good press now and all indications are that that will continue into March. The Memphis game will also generate interest / garner more attention. In short, the stars sure seem to be aligned such that a number of Zags have good chances of ending up in the NBA due to what they are earning on the court at GU presently and what may transpire before June.
Go Zags! Stay Healthy! Beat Pacific!

As for Edwards .... he sure has it made at GU with the overall program and LOTS of good mentors. He'll likely do very well next year. I really can't see how he won't. He looked pretty darn good in the last couple games he played for GU.


Relax, Zagger. They have every chance to be even better and deeper next year

WallaWallaZag
01-23-2015, 04:05 PM
What's your opinion on Karnowski as an NBA player? My opinion is if Sacre can find a place in the league, Karno definitely can. He continues to get better and you can't teach 7'1".

sacre was/is a lot more athletic than karnowski in terms of foot speed...especially laterally.

zag buddy
01-23-2015, 04:12 PM
Isn't Sabonis still 18. very young still and I think the wear and tear from an nba schedule would not treat him well.

seacatfan
01-23-2015, 05:39 PM
We had to deal with 4 years each of Samhan and Waldow, only fair that St. Mary's has to deal with GU's frontcourt studs for 4 years.

CDC84
01-23-2015, 08:09 PM
What's your opinion on Karnowski as an NBA player? My opinion is if Sacre can find a place in the league, Karno definitely can. He continues to get better and you can't teach 7'1".

I could see Karno making a team, but the one thing that Sacre always had going for him was his defense. His ability to defend the perimeter, handle switches and show on ball screens is something he does better than most big guys in the NBA. While he doesn't block many shots, he's an excellent positional defender. He's an ideal guy to have towards the end of your rotation to eat up some minutes. He's also a great teammate, community leader and will never gripe about playing time.

MickMick
01-23-2015, 11:20 PM
Wiltjer has the ball skills, but those superb athletes in the NBA will blow by him and score at will. He would have to make a living as a situational shooter. He looks European bound to me.

If Sabonis gains about 20 pounds of muscle, he has a shot. He is still quite young and the final product is still a bit obscure.

Karnowski probably has a slight shot, but at best, would likely be a situational player that moves from team to team as part of larger trade package. I don't think he is, or ever will be much better than Turiaf and I believe he would follow a similar career path as Ronnie. I'm thinking that is his best case scenario as well. Heck....if Samhan couldn't make it in the league, I wouldn't give Karno much of a shot.

KStyles
01-23-2015, 11:37 PM
Isn't Sabonis still 18. very young still and I think the wear and tear from an nba schedule would not treat him well.

Yep, 18 until May.

82 games a year is rough on anyone, no matter the age. I'd guess it doesn't get easier as you get older.

Maybe a few years playing ~35 games would help him, but either way, I think going from ~35 to 82 you're in for a rough awakening.

MDABE80
01-24-2015, 12:01 AM
Right now, Sabonis will if he gets bigger and stronger. he's got th emotor and the tools but needs more deveopment. Karno...we'll wait till his Sr year. Kyle could but he needs a lot more than just his shooting. These are good and servicable college players. We could win a title next year but the college level is just different....not as demanding due to less athletic competition.
Ammo was a sure shot in his last attempt in the Summer leagues a few years ago but then, nothing even though he really looked like he coud stick......different story though.
Edwards .....we haven't seen enough of him yet after this year of hard work. He's got size, soft hands and all that. He needs to seriously get in shape.............and get speed.

Jstock12
01-24-2015, 03:14 AM
If you're 7'1-7'2 you have a pretty good shot to get into NBA. And Karno actually has some basketball skills to go with his size. I think he could end up being a good backup C in the NBA. If not, then he might play for some very good teams (Barca, Real, Olympiacos) in Euroleague. Did I mention that centers take much longer to develop than guards? Yeah. Take Marc Gasol (picked in the second round with 48th pick) for example. He wasn't anywhere near the player he is now when he was Karno's age.

Malastein
01-24-2015, 07:34 AM
Relax, Zagger. They have every chance to be even better and deeper next year

Agreed.

jpn17
01-24-2015, 07:59 AM
As long as he keeps developing, Sabonis will be a lottery pick almost based on name alone. OK that's an exaggeration, but the bloodline has everyone on notice and if he continues to improve on what he's done this year, he won't disappoint. Karnowski I think will be an NBA player. He can score down low, he can rebound, he can defend and he can pass. And does he ever have the size. IMO the biggest thing that would improve his chances at being a first round pick would be to develop a mid range jump shot that he can consistently hit. You can count on most of the starting bigs in the NBA to be able to drain that 10-15 footer. Karnowski has a nice shot, it's something I feel like he can incorporate into his game. And if he does, he'll be playing in the NBA for a long time. He's not super athletic, but then seven foot centers don't have to be. There's other things he can improve on, going right in the post and free throw shooting come to mind, but those are things that I think NBA teams would be OK with right now and would be able to help him develop in the pros. That mid range jump shot is the missing piece. JMO

bballbeachbum
01-24-2015, 08:26 AM
projecting guys into the NBA not the easiest task even for those making big bucks to do it, but

Karno with a consistent 15 foot catch and shoot jumper added to his arsenal would help, there's no stopping that with his size and the NBA has the ball in creators' hands who need to pass it to open people who can finish open shots once the D collapses.......like others, not sure defensively he has it at that level even tho he's the D rock on the Zags, but he won't be able to park in the key and would be forced to move his feet by opponents whenever possible on the perimeter. would love to see him get the chance to prove his game fits or not at 7"2". MacCulloch made it, Karno has some similar challenges to overcome but is perhaps better equipped and quicker, but the game is faster now too. I don't know

Wiltjer would need to get stronger, think everyone sees that, even tho he's a lot stronger than he appears I think, but teams will see what St. Mary's did to him and look to do it to him again. He's so offensively gifted tho that you never know, the guy is highly skilled

Sabonis has a good shot at it, think of him with a reliable 15 footer when open once that's added to his developing post game. needs development on D, very willing and aggressive but plenty of room to grow; he's got some athleticism at his size, great pedigree, high motor, willing banger

maybe it's Europe in the end but they're all good passers, and the 2 big guys bang and board pretty well. will be fun to watch them develop and see what happens

bartruff1
01-24-2015, 08:38 AM
no

jagwalkley
01-24-2015, 08:44 AM
Possibly so. All 3 will get a look for sure! Wiltjer knows how to play the game and is a good passer. Sabonis is raw but needs some seasoning and work on offensive moves and jump shot. Karnowski is a force but needs to work on rebounding and not getting in foul trouble.

I think it is highly likely that Sabonis will be a first round pick some day; Wiltjer will possibly be a second round pick next year after an MVP-type season; not sure on Karnowski- but he could definitely be a backup center on an NBA team some day soon. I think Pangos may make a team as well....only time will tell . I'll be rooting for them all !

I think you hit the nail on the head just about right.Sobonis will make it after next year if he keeps improving.

RenoZag
01-24-2015, 09:17 AM
We could see Sabonis make it to the first round someday. . the other two should be able to cash paychecks for playing hoops somewhere but the Association looks unlikely.

DADoZAG
01-24-2015, 10:13 AM
As long as he keeps developing, Sabonis will be a lottery pick almost based on name alone. OK that's an exaggeration, but the bloodline has everyone on notice and if he continues to improve on what he's done this year, he won't disappoint. Karnowski I think will be an NBA player. He can score down low, he can rebound, he can defend and he can pass. And does he ever have the size. IMO the biggest thing that would improve his chances at being a first round pick would be to develop a mid range jump shot that he can consistently hit. You can count on most of the starting bigs in the NBA to be able to drain that 10-15 footer. Karnowski has a nice shot, it's something I feel like he can incorporate into his game. And if he does, he'll be playing in the NBA for a long time. He's not super athletic, but then seven foot centers don't have to be. There's other things he can improve on, going right in the post and free throw shooting come to mind, but those are things that I think NBA teams would be OK with right now and would be able to help him develop in the pros. That mid range jump shot is the missing piece. JMO


Agree. While you only hit on two of the four, you've nailed Karno.

'Think none of them will be going pro after this year (evolution for me since earlier in the year), and think folks need to remember where previous bigs have been in their junior years. PK ain't playin' like no junior and I really believe he's got a few more surprises to show us THIS year. That mid-range shot might be one of them. One more year with proper summer work and he's really gonna be a force. Gotta stay healthy, keep moving them feet all the way through the play, big guy!

Could very well be that Dontmiss stays four no matter how good he gets. The next step isn't quite as surreal for him as it is with most kids. Bet he's not being hurried to get there by his folks, in fact the opposite most likely. Who he's going to be playing with is a factor. #trendingup

Wiltj has the furthest to go of those seeing minutes this year, still isn't using even half of what he has physically. I'll bet Knight has a plan for this summer already, maybe the same plan he's had since fall. If the plan get's implemented properly, Wiltj could be very good on both ends of the floor. Plus he'll start the year on several "watch lists" even if he doesn't improve, all toughening his mindset.

Edwards just might have the highest ceiling for all but Domas, imo. 'Am interested to see how this young man uses the gifts he's now finding within.

'Really envy Travis Knight. Seeing that light of belief coming on in a kid is one special thing.

ETA: To answer the opp, very possibly.

Go ZAGS! Finish Strong!

jazzdelmar
01-24-2015, 10:31 AM
Domas' little ten foot jump shot vs Marys was exhilarating. If he does stay four, a top five player.

titopoet
01-24-2015, 11:56 AM
I doubt it with Karnowski and Wiltjer. Sabonis has a chance with development.

I would be surprised if Wiltjer gets drafted. He is just too weak defensively, lacks athleticism, is undersized, etc. He's going to make a lot of bread in Europe, though.

He will play in the NBA. But, just to be clear, he will be a role player. A stretch four with as good of as shot as his will always be a need in today's NBA. The two others are also role players in the NBA. Karno is too skilled not to taken and again be a good backup. If he can work on his face up game, he has higher ceiling. Sabonis needs more of a perimeter game to more than an energy guy off the bench.

Zagceo
01-24-2015, 12:08 PM
Domas' little ten foot jump shot vs Marys was exhilarating. If he does stay four, a top five player.

Agree……..he still might grow a few inches being that he's only 18.

DixieZag
01-24-2015, 12:38 PM
I could see Karno making a team, but the one thing that Sacre always had going for him was his defense. His ability to defend the perimeter, handle switches and show on ball screens is something he does better than most big guys in the NBA. While he doesn't block many shots, he's an excellent positional defender. He's an ideal guy to have towards the end of your rotation to eat up some minutes. He's also a great teammate, community leader and will never gripe about playing time.

From what I've read here, the part about "great teammate, community leader and never gripes about playing time" is actually a bigger deal than most would presume. Unfortunately, the league has their pick of quite a few guys that fit that minute eating good Defense role, but to have that other role seems likely to carry him a long way - b/c, why not? You can have a asphole, or you can have Rob.

Great post.

basketballzag
01-24-2015, 12:56 PM
Thoughts-Opinions?-

2016 draft board for one NBA team has Sabonis as a potential lottery. Wiltjer late 1st. Karno mid 2nd range. Except (Sabonis early 2nd)of Wilt/Shem wont be drafted this year the unless something dramatic occurs. Money year for all 3 is 2016 draft. Wilt will be a national center piece media wise next year and McClellan will fill in perfectly for Wesley.

I'll say this again both Pangos and Wesley will be on a NBA roster next year. Pangos will command attention during NBA camps.

jazzdelmar
01-24-2015, 01:08 PM
2016 draft board for one NBA team has Sabonis as a potential lottery. Wiltjer late 1st. Karno mid 2nd range. Except (Sabonis early 2nd)of Wilt/Shem wont be drafted this year the unless something dramatic occurs. Money year for all 3 is 2016 draft. Wilt will be a national center piece media wise next year and McClellan will fill in perfectly for Wesley.

I'll say this again both Pangos and Wesley will be on a NBA roster next year. Pangos will command attention during NBA camps.

With addition of Eddie, Alberts and full year Mac, and maturation of Melson and Jenks, how do you assess chance next years team will be better than this one?

seacatfan
01-24-2015, 02:05 PM
2016 draft board for one NBA team has Sabonis as a potential lottery. Wiltjer late 1st. Karno mid 2nd range. Except (Sabonis early 2nd)of Wilt/Shem wont be drafted this year the unless something dramatic occurs. Money year for all 3 is 2016 draft. Wilt will be a national center piece media wise next year and McClellan will fill in perfectly for Wesley.

I'll say this again both Pangos and Wesley will be on a NBA roster next year. Pangos will command attention during NBA camps.

It's possible, but odds are against both Pangos and Wesley. Honestly Wesley is just another decent athlete, 6-4 guard, they are a dime-a-dozen. He's not distinguishing himself to be an obvious NBA draft pick. And his perimeter shooting leaves a lot to be desired. Put this way, I've seen quite a few much better 2 guards not make it in the NBA.

DixieZag
01-24-2015, 02:57 PM
Would it matter much if Karno developed that straight low to mid range jump shot he's shown (very well) a few times this year?

seacatfan
01-24-2015, 05:10 PM
Wiltjer gets criticized for his defense quite a bit, but Sabonis really isn't very good defensively either. I think I've seen him be in the wrong place and give up a layup 3 times already against Pacific tonight (at the half). He may have battled Waldow in the low block, but he doesn't move well enough to cover mobile 4's. So far, anyway, hopefully he can improve in that department.

Hoopaholic
01-24-2015, 07:34 PM
With addition of Eddie, Alberts and full year Mac, and maturation of Melson and Jenks, how do you assess chance next years team will be better than this one?

forgot edwards could be biggest best frontcourt in all ncaa

we will see some hiccups early with youth but dynamite by end of year

GonzagasaurusFlex
01-24-2015, 10:25 PM
No, Gonzaga does not have three first rounders in the front court because Wiltjer is a tweener....too thin to play the 4 in NBA and too slow/poor handles to morph into a 3 (unless he turns into a Gordon Hayward after another full year of hard work with Travis Knight, but i don't see that happening cause Hayward has sick handles and way more quickness off the dribble).

Karnowski can be a first rounder....I hope he watches 3 current NBA starting centers and models his game/development after them during his next year: 1) Marc Gasol; 2) Timothy Mozgov; 3) obviously, Martin Gortat...the Polish Hammer!

Sabonis can definitely be a first round NBA draft pick with two more years of development. He's got the size, motor and fierceness to be a power forward at the next level...he needs to develop his lateral quickness and offensive repertoire (or maybe just have more opportunities to showcase it).

dadair
01-24-2015, 10:36 PM
I used to say that about DELLY I swear to god he played 9 years with SMC[/QUOTE]

Ain't *that* the truth?

webspinnre
01-24-2015, 10:36 PM
Sabonis probably, Karnowski has a good chance, Wiltjer doesn't seem likely. Regardless, we're incredibly blessed to have a front court like this.

MDABE80
01-25-2015, 12:12 AM
Ouside of Kentucky, I don't think any team in the country has 3 first rounders. We sure don't.

jazzdelmar
01-25-2015, 03:25 AM
Ouside of Kentucky, I don't think any team in the country has 3 first rounders. We sure don't.

Dook has 2 lottos in Okafor and Winslow and the pg is also a first rounder.