PDA

View Full Version : WCC moves to #7



sittingon50
01-19-2015, 11:00 PM
per KenPom, following Monday's action:

#6 Pac 12 .7634
#7 WCC .6460
#8 A 10 .6444

A gap from the Big 6, but currently best of the rest.

WallaWallaZag
01-19-2015, 11:28 PM
how do you move up once conference play starts???

caduceus
01-20-2015, 01:33 AM
how do you move up once conference play starts???

Inter-conference games, probably. Not sure what the actual games were that bumped the conferences though. UConn played Stanford though on Saturday, for example.

hondo
01-20-2015, 02:18 AM
The A-10 does not show any out of conference games having been played since late December. The only recent WCC ooc game was Santa Clara's win over St Katherine last week.
St Katherine's from San Marcos, CA has about 100 students.
I can't imagine that game boosted the conference rating.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/27/sdsu-basketball-st-katherine-college/

caduceus
01-20-2015, 02:24 AM
The A-10 does not show any out of conference games having been played since late December. The only recent WCC ooc game was Santa Clara over St Katherine last week.
St Katherine's from San Marcos, CA has about 100 students and it looks like they don't pay their basketball coach.

Yes, but I'm sure A-10 teams previously played AAC teams (as well as WCC teams playing Pac-12 teams). Remember, RPI incorporates not only winning percentage, but their opponent's record and opponent's opponent's records (which determine SOS). Any non-conference games at this point are going to have some SOS ripple effect amongst several teams (and thus conferences).

I'm sure the SCU/St. Kate's game had no effect, since St. K is non-DI and therefore not included in RPI/SOS calculations.

Once and Future Zag
01-20-2015, 07:02 AM
Yes, but I'm sure A-10 teams previously played AAC teams (as well as WCC teams playing Pac-12 teams). Remember, RPI incorporates not only winning percentage, but their opponent's record and opponent's opponent's records (which determine SOS). Any non-conference games at this point are going to have some SOS ripple effect amongst several teams (and thus conferences).

I'm sure the SCU/St. Kate's game had no effect, since St. K is non-DI and therefore not included in RPI/SOS calculations.

But this isn't RPI - this is KenPom's ratings which is based around tempo-free possession efficiency - and that allows for a lot of relative movement even once conference play starts as teams prior games are recontextualized.

gonzagafan62
01-20-2015, 07:14 AM
Yes, but I'm sure A-10 teams previously played AAC teams (as well as WCC teams playing Pac-12 teams). Remember, RPI incorporates not only winning percentage, but their opponent's record and opponent's opponent's records (which determine SOS). Any non-conference games at this point are going to have some SOS ripple effect amongst several teams (and thus conferences).

I'm sure the SCU/St. Kate's game had no effect, since St. K is non-DI and therefore not included in RPI/SOS calculations.

I do know Iowa and Arizona State won. Both of which Pepperdine played. I think some other WCC teams played Arizona State too. OF course though, the WCC has been winning a lot of RPI battles lately (take Gonzaga for instance)

caduceus
01-20-2015, 07:46 AM
But this isn't RPI - this is KenPom's ratings which is based around tempo-free possession efficiency - and that allows for a lot of relative movement even once conference play starts as teams prior games are recontextualized.

Ahh, I missed that it was Pomeroy data. Either way, the concept is the same -- noncon games affecting SOS and in turn affecting the various conference ratings. It's also possible that he still has (or had) some 2013-14 season data affecting this year's calculations at this point, which is deprecated over time during the season. And I'm pretty sure Pomeroy doesn't credit non-DI game wins, even though he lists them in W-L (I think I read it on his blog some time back).

gonzagafan62
01-20-2015, 07:52 AM
7 is more better than 8 (per whoohoo)

DixieZag
01-20-2015, 08:44 AM
7 is more better than 8 (per whoohoo)

And, weird, since the conference seems much weaker on the whole this year.

I wonder how much our record is pulling the rest of it up?

Zagdawg
01-20-2015, 08:54 AM
Cinderella and the 9 dwarves?.................................;)

23dpg
01-20-2015, 08:57 AM
The conference is undoubtably helped by Gonzaga but I think even more so by the bottom teams. A few years ago the Wcc had multiple teams in the plus 200 club. This year I think it's only one.

Zagdawg
01-20-2015, 09:38 AM
And the dawns are doing much better than projected........oh wait......never mind.

MDABE80
01-20-2015, 11:00 AM
I don't remember the WCC better that 8. This is a "HUGE".

Kiddwell
01-20-2015, 11:56 AM
This fan finds it curious that neither the WCC or PAC-12 have a second team in the Top-25. OK, Standard sneaks in at #25 in the Coaches, but isn't the dearth of Top-25 teams a bit weird? :fingergun:

Is it because the Big-12 is so awesome this year (and filling a bunch of slots)? Usually, it seems, if only for a while, Saint Mary's or BYU show up in the polls. Oftentimes they stick there.


:]

gonzagafan62
01-20-2015, 12:03 PM
This fan finds it curious that neither the WCC or PAC-12 have a second team in the Top-25. OK, Standard sneaks in at #25 in the Coaches, but isn't the dearth of Top-25 teams a bit weird? :fingergun:

Is it because the Big-12 is so awesome this year (and filling a bunch of slots)? Usually, it seems, if only for a while, Saint Mary's or BYU show up in the polls. Oftentimes they stick there.


:]

Utah is pretty high in the rankings Kiddwell. I think they are #12. But yeah, Arizona and Utah are the premier teams in the PAC 12. And honestly, I cannot remember the last time St. Mary's or BYU was in the Top 25. Maybe 2012? Anywhoo, yeah, its kind of weird.

Once and Future Zag
01-20-2015, 01:09 PM
WCC KenPom league rating

2015 - #7 (midseason)
2014 - #9
2013 - #10
2012 - #11
2011 - #13
2010 - #14
2009 - #14
2008 - #15

DixieZag
01-20-2015, 01:20 PM
WCC KenPom league rating

2015 - #7 (midseason)
2014 - #9
2013 - #10
2012 - #11
2011 - #13
2010 - #14
2009 - #14
2008 - #15

WOW.

That is quite the trend. Amazing to see it all lined up. And, it doesn't seem like we have that much impact on that - our 2009 team, 2013 team were all very highly ranked. Do we overtake the A-10 in the next few years? The Big East? (If they slide some more).

Great post.

Kiddwell
01-20-2015, 01:48 PM
Utah is pretty high in the rankings Kiddwell. I think they are #12. But yeah, Arizona and Utah are the premier teams in the PAC 12. And honestly, I cannot remember the last time St. Mary's or BYU was in the Top 25. Maybe 2012? Anywhoo, yeah, its kind of weird.

Totally forgot about Utah. Thanks, 62. Still, the WCC and PAC-12 aren't as representative as times past, which makes our conference's fairly high rating a mite puzzling. And what if no one from the WCC makes the Dance, save us? Wouldn't that mean we're not seventh best?


:]

Zagdawg
01-20-2015, 01:58 PM
Or you can ask-- how far can one team carry a conference?

gonzagafan62
01-20-2015, 03:50 PM
Or you can ask-- how far can one team carry a conference?

According to ken Pom in 2013 gonzaga didn't carry it tht far. Apparently the conference is actually getting better

sittingon50
01-20-2015, 07:23 PM
Pep is sitting @ #81 as the 4th team in the WCC. Without doing the research I don't ever recall a 4th team being grouped that high.

MBAGael
01-20-2015, 08:53 PM
WCC KenPom league rating

2015 - #7 (midseason)
2014 - #9
2013 - #10
2012 - #11
2011 - #13
2010 - #14
2009 - #14
2008 - #15
What is impressive is the league improved even after adding Pacific two years ago.

MBAGael
01-20-2015, 08:57 PM
Pep is sitting @ #81 as the 4th team in the WCC. Without doing the research I don't ever recall a 4th team being grouped that high.
Good point, last year, USF finished the year with a Ken Pom rating of 90.

ZagsGoZags
01-22-2015, 02:29 AM
very interesting stat, once and future,
thanks