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Zags_Fanatic
01-13-2015, 09:25 AM
Was expecting to see Wiltjer somewhere on the list, but #3 was pretty shocking. Could be the boost he needs for AA consideration. On a related note, Pangos should be on this list.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12160036/the-nation-top-25-players-college-basketball

For non-INsiders:


3. Kyle Wiltjer, Gonzaga Bulldogs

Wiltjer is my choice as this season's most underrated player, and to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what the problem is here. The young man in question is combining the terms "volume" and "accuracy from both sides of the arc" as well as if not better than any other player in Division I: Wiltjer is making 56 percent of his 2s and 43 percent of his 3s.

More important, the young man in question is doing all of the above on a top-five team, and he's a transfer from Kentucky. Those two facts alone should be more than enough to net you the attention required for a proper appreciation of your efforts, but in Wiltjer's case that just hasn't happened -- or hasn't happened yet.

Perhaps the issue here is a near-total lack of NBA interest. At 6-foot-10 Wiltjer is a pure scorer from the 4 position, and in terms of shot attempts he is the alpha and omega of the Gonzaga offense in a way that no star in Spokane has been since the days of Adam Morrison. Repeat: Adam Morrison, another great college player with limited NBA appeal -- and Morrison, goodness knows, got plenty of notice. Again, I don't see why Wiltjer is toiling in anonymity this season. Maybe he should cry.

Zags_Fanatic
01-13-2015, 09:27 AM
Other players of note:

1) Jahlil Okafor, Duke
2) Delon Wright, Utah
15) Tyler Haws, BYU

Mr Vulture
01-13-2015, 09:28 AM
There is no way that Wiltjer should be in the discussion for All American...let's be real. If any guy on this team is considered, which I doubt they will, it would be Kevin Pangos.

krozman
01-13-2015, 09:43 AM
Wiltjer does better because his teammates are equally offensively talented, thus allowing him to be a very efficient scorer. You can say that about any member of the team! But don't hate on the writer. Journalism doesn't sell by being objective. It's good press either way and I'm sure you'd agree he didn't intend to disrespect Pangos or any member of the team. Wiltjer deserves good credit from time to time, so I'm happy we're being noticed for the players we have, even if the opinion isn't always fully developed in writing to your liking.

VaBeachZAG
01-13-2015, 10:44 AM
Wiltjer does better because his teammates are equally offensively talented, thus allowing him to be a very efficient scorer. You can say that about any member of the team! But don't hate on the writer. Journalism doesn't sell by being objective. It's good press either way and I'm sure you'd agree he didn't intend to disrespect Pangos or any member of the team. Wiltjer deserves good credit from time to time, so I'm happy we're being noticed for the players we have, even if the opinion isn't always fully developed in writing to your liking.

This quote from the piece really explains much of the above average attention Wiltjer is receiving in some circles:
"More important, the young man in question is doing all of the above on a top-five team, and he's a transfer from Kentucky. Those two facts alone should be more than enough to net you the attention required for a proper appreciation of your efforts...."

It's more than obvious that if the Zags were at the bottom of the polls (or out of them altogether) no GU player would be looked at as a top five national player. However, the facts are what they are, and I'm lovin it! As far as I am concerned, Wiltjer deserves this recognition and the Zags deserve their No. 3 ranking. I do agree Pangos should be on such a list, but his value to the team and its current success goes light years beyond statistics. Let's face it, not everyone can see value beyond a stat. sheet.

zag buddy
01-13-2015, 10:46 AM
I totally agree with him.

titopoet
01-13-2015, 11:25 AM
There is no way that Wiltjer should be in the discussion for All American...let's be real. If any guy on this team is considered, which I doubt they will, it would be Kevin Pangos.

Kyle is currently ranked 6 in Kenpom advanced stats site. So yes he should be in the AA conversation. http://kenpom.com/kpoy.php
(http://kenpom.com/kpoy.php)


1 Jahlil Okafor, Duke 2.066
2 Frank Kaminsky, Wisconsin 2.015
3 Anthony Gill, Virginia 1.800
4 Delon Wright, Utah 1.763
5 Justin Anderson, Virginia 1.705
6 Kyle Wiltjer, Gonzaga 1.544
7 Terry Rozier, Louisville 1.506
8 Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia 1.486
9 Buddy Hield, Oklahoma 1.469
10 Ryan Boatright, Connecticut 1.403

MDABE80
01-13-2015, 11:34 AM
Kyle's very good at what he does......at what he does. He's limited though. I'm hoping next season he expands his game....I think he'll need for than shooting to get a job at the next level. Rebounding, strength and defense is what he needs to focus on. I'm sure he will. I aso think he'll be a preseason AA next year for many of the scribes.

Reborn
01-13-2015, 11:46 AM
Of course Kyle's deserving. and so is Kevin. In other articles, Kevin has been noticed and praised. Nice to see Kyle get notice in this one. Afterall, he's leading the #3 team in the country in scoring. Come on, give him some credit. I know that all the attention and praise that GU and it's players are getting is tough for some of you to swallow, but for some of it's it's really nice to see.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

gonzagafan62
01-13-2015, 11:53 AM
There is no way that Wiltjer should be in the discussion for All American...let's be real..

Uh, you sure? He should definitely be in the AA discussion.

gueastcoast
01-13-2015, 11:56 AM
Liked the writer's thoughts generally, and I realize folks need to sell papers, but this was a little much:


and in terms of shot attempts he is the alpha and omega of the Gonzaga offense in a way that no star in Spokane has been since the days of Adam Morrison

While the statistic may be apt (and I haven't checked), to suggest that Kyle is our primary offensive option does a disservice to how much offensive talent surrounds him (esp. compared to Adam, who had considerably less)

cjm720
01-13-2015, 11:58 AM
Good for Kyle...pretty lofty. He might be the most underappreciated player on his own team. He's been an amazing addition.

jazzdelmar
01-13-2015, 12:20 PM
As long as he doesn't get thoughts of the NBA, for which he is clearly not ready -- imo -- it's all palaver and hence all harmless and good.

ZagNative
01-13-2015, 12:24 PM
Gasaway now on Dickau & Slim show on 700 ESPN. (http://player.tritondigital.com/5131)

ZagNative
01-13-2015, 12:38 PM
Jay Bilas coming up net on Dickau & Slim (http://player.tritondigital.com/5131)

rennis
01-13-2015, 12:56 PM
Good for Kyle...pretty lofty. He might be the most underappreciated player on his own team. He's been an amazing addition.

I feel like he is plenty appreciated by the fans of the team - he's getting plenty of GUnits this year, etc.

Nationally he probably is underrated if you ask me - he hasn't gotten a lot of exposure on the national level, at least not the way AMMO did. OTOH, AMMO average a sh*t-load more points his Junior Year. And was rocket-propelled into the National Conversation by what he did in Maui. Wiltjer had some awesome performances in November and December, and I think he WOULD be on more radars if he had buried that shot at Arizona.

The hype matters not - I'm just glad he is on our team and is playing at such a high level. "Appreciate it." and "Yeah"

ZagNative
01-13-2015, 01:05 PM
Wow! Is Bilas ever high on Mark Few and the Zags! That was just a fabulous interview on Dickau & Slim! I think that the station will have it set up in a podcast later. Required listening for the Zag fan! Anybody else listen to the interview?

Edited to add: If you missed the show, check back later today for the podcast of the show on itunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dickau-and-slim-show/id918338339?mt=2

seacatfan
01-13-2015, 01:15 PM
Kyle is currently ranked 6 in Kenpom advanced stats site. So yes he should be in the AA conversation. http://kenpom.com/kpoy.php
(http://kenpom.com/kpoy.php)

Anybody notice 3 from Virginia in that top 10 list? I'm not even sure exactly what those stats are measuring, but I'm guessing it's about offensive efficiency. Those weren't blue chip recruits either. I think Tony Bennett is a vastly underrated coach nationally. He won with a very pedestrian roster at Wazzu and he's doing even bigger things at Virginia with a roster that doesn't compare to the rest of the top teams in the ACC.

Oops, this didn't actually quote the top 10 list I'm referring to in the post several above mine.

Zagger
01-13-2015, 01:17 PM
Great for Kyle and great for GU. I'm certain more Zags will get some lime light before this season is over. They're a darn good team and they have a darn good coach. The team's not #3 due to a roll of the dice. The team has a lot of talent and they know how to get the ball in the hoop. My favorite 'stat' on the Zags isn't a stat - it is that they are a bunch of guys that have become pals and they're having a great time (from what I can see just as a local Zag fan). Wiltjer appears to score with ease from what I've observed. He's also getting better at diversity of moves/shots and he appears to be becoming more confident on the floor. His path through the program is somewhat like Kelly O's (Kelly didn't get as good as he did in a Zag uniform overnight).

I keep thinking about how early it is in the season yet. Counting this week there are 7 weeks of games until March. Anyone can learn quite a bit in 7 weeks. Heck, everyone on the team can improve in 7 weeks. Due to how 'off the radar' athletes regularly get on the radar at GU - the Zags may very well achieve a greater level of prowess in a shorter amount of time than their competition in the top 25 teams. If the team takes it one game at a time and continues to work on D and attacking Ds that are likely to be deployed against them ...... time will tell. I hope we'll have the chore of getting somewhat used the Zags being a top 5 team (that has an honest chance of beating any team in the nation).

seacatfan
01-13-2015, 01:18 PM
Kyle's very good at what he does......at what he does. He's limited though. I'm hoping next season he expands his game....I think he'll need for than shooting to get a job at the next level. Rebounding, strength and defense is what he needs to focus on. I'm sure he will. I aso think he'll be a preseason AA next year for many of the scribes.

It's very possible he's just not an NBA guy. I'm very happy with what he's doing for GU this year. I know getting to the League is the goal for most of the kids playing college ball, but the vast majority of them will never get there. Just a reality.

Baseline
01-13-2015, 06:02 PM
If we get a deep run in March, Kyle will get noticed and even the NBA guys will evaluate. In my opinion Kyle is the unsung hero of the team, just getting it done and giving up playing time to Domas, but still leading the scoring.
In my opinion Kyle could be NBA with his shooting and IQ along with his height, the only thing that limits him is still the athletic ability. He still needs about 20 pounds of muscle to get over that hump. For some people that is very hard no matter how hard they train.

zagamatic
01-13-2015, 08:58 PM
Wiltjer could easily be jacking up more shots and therefore scoring more if it was needed. The nice thing about this team is that he doesn't always have to be that guy.
As far as the NBA is concerned, one thing that I think he has going against him is that some scouts "may" perceive him as not being able to hack it at Kentucky. Also, I'm sure that some of them are thinking "shouldn't he be averaging like 25 points on a team like the Zags"? Like it or not, there's still a perception that the Zags just aren't for real.
On the flip side, if the Zags do break through and reach a Final 4. Or better yet, earn a national championship. Then yes, Kyle will get a serious look at the next level. Personally, regardless of what happens this year, I want every eligible player back next year.

OZZY
01-13-2015, 09:22 PM
Liked the writer's thoughts generally, and I realize folks need to sell papers, but this was a little much:



While the statistic may be apt (and I haven't checked), to suggest that Kyle is our primary offensive option does a disservice to how much offensive talent surrounds him (esp. compared to Adam, who had considerably less)

Obviously the writer forgot about KO when he went back to Adam re the Alpha/Omega line......

BBzag
01-13-2015, 10:35 PM
Obviously the writer forgot about KO when he went back to Adam re the Alpha/Omega line......

The top shooters, by percentage of team field goal attempts, during the Few era:

2014-15: Wiltjer 20.9
2013-14: Pangos 18.8
2012-13: Olynk 17.7
2011-12: Harris 18.7
2010-11: Gray 19.9
2009-10: Bouldin 19.7
2008-09: Heytvelt 17.3
2007-08: Bouldin 16.4
2006-07: Raivio 21.7
2005-06: Morrison 32.8
2004-05: Morrison 26.7
2003-04: Stepp 18.8
2002-03: Stepp 22.0
2001-02: Dickau 22.9
2000-01: Calvary 23.0
1999-00: Santangelo 21.5

Ekrub
01-14-2015, 08:02 AM
The top shooters, by percentage of team field goal attempts, during the Few era:

2014-15: Wiltjer 20.9
2013-14: Pangos 18.8
2012-13: Olynk 17.7
2011-12: Harris 18.7
2010-11: Gray 19.9
2009-10: Bouldin 19.7
2008-09: Heytvelt 17.3
2007-08: Bouldin 16.4
2006-07: Raivio 21.7
2005-06: Morrison 32.8
2004-05: Morrison 26.7
2003-04: Stepp 18.8
2002-03: Stepp 22.0
2001-02: Dickau 22.9
2000-01: Calvary 23.0
1999-00: Santangelo 21.5

So you would have to go back to raivio. Damn Morrison used a ton of possessions. Could you post batistas?

amaronizag
01-14-2015, 08:44 AM
High praise for Wiltjer and totally deserved after his hard work at improving himself and his game. However, I wish all of the recognition could have been saved for next year. After we play KY in the final game, and Wiltjer scores 30 to give us the win, he could skyrocket into NBA scout awareness. I want him back next year along with Karno to anchor the center and lead us to back to back championships. Too optimistic???? Well then, I'll settle for one championship, don't care which year.

mgadfly
01-14-2015, 08:54 AM
Looking at Kenpom's site I don't see a percentage of field goal attempts, but I do see % of minutes played, % of shots attempted while on the court, and offensive rating (to give an idea of efficiency).

If a player wasn't at about 60% of minutes played I have not included them. If they weren't near the top of the team in % of shots I didn't include them. I think the writer is off base because Raivio and because it implies his role in the offense is somewhat similar to Morrison's, which it is not.

Wiltjer, 2015, 63.9% min, 33.5% shots, 126.8 O-Rating
Karno, 2015, 63.1% min, 24.1% shots, 115.3 O-Rating

Dower, 2014, 63.9% min, 25.7% shots, 120.2
Pangos, 2014, 87.7% min, 21.6% shots, 118.2

Olynyk, 2013, 60.4% min, 29.3% shots, 123.3
Harris, 2013, 67.4% min, 25.8% shots, 116.3

Harris, 2012, 72.4% min, 25.9% shots, 110.9
Pangos, 2012, 78.8% min, 23.2% shots, 119.0

Gray, 2011, 76.2% min, 26.1% shots, 109.1
Harris, 2011, 62.7% min, 24.4% shots, 112.4

Gray, 2010, 78.8% min, 23.7% shots, 109.2
Bouldin, 2010, 85.5% min, 23.1% shots, 115.0
Harris, 2010, 72.6% min, 24.4% shots, 114.4

Daye, 2009, 65.3% min, 25.7% shots, 101.7
Heytvelt, 2009, 72.5% min, 23.8% shots, 118.8
Bouldin, 2009, 78.8% min, 20.4% shots, 119.3

Bouldin, 2008, 76.4% min, 21.4% shots, 107.0

Raivio, 2007, 89.3% min, 24.3% shots, 122.7

Morrison, 2006, 89.9% min, 36.5% shots, 120.0
Batista, 2006, 80.4% min, 26.3% shots, 121.7

Morrison, 2005, 85.4% min, 31.3% shots, 119.4
Turriaf, 2005, 78.0% min, 23.3% shots, 111.0
Batista, 2005, 58.6% min, 22.9% shots, 116.3

mgadfly
01-14-2015, 08:56 AM
But I love the press our transfers are getting, especially Wiltjer. And I think it is deserved as they've integrated into the team seamlessly. It only helps our argument to land the next big transfer.

jazzdelmar
01-14-2015, 08:58 AM
Luv the kid but mentioning him in the same oxygen tank much less breath with Ammo is just silly.

mgadfly
01-14-2015, 09:00 AM
High praise for Wiltjer and totally deserved after his hard work at improving himself and his game. However, I wish all of the recognition could have been saved for next year. After we play KY in the final game, and Wiltjer scores 30 to give us the win, he could skyrocket into NBA scout awareness. I want him back next year along with Karno to anchor the center and lead us to back to back championships. Too optimistic???? Well then, I'll settle for one championship, don't care which year.

I think Wiltjer will get looks from NBA scouts and they are very aware of him. However, currently he does not have the speed and quickness to guard a three in the league and doesn't have the strength and rebounding skills to play the four. That puts him as a star overseas most likely. When I watch the way Sabonis moves and rebounds vs Wiltjer I think it shows Wiltjer still has a long way to go before he can defend and rebound at a level where he will see minutes on an NBA court. Hopefully he wins us a championship this year and works all summer to build up his strength even more and comes back next year and shows he is not only an incredible offensive player, but also a competent defender/rebounder.

BULLDOG#1
01-14-2015, 09:13 AM
The numbers support it and he's earned it. Great news for KW.

But...

From what I've seen this year -- this team and KW's play as an extension of the team is all predicated on the stellar year Pangos is having.
Pangos should be more in the national discussion. He is far and away the zags MVP.

BTB
01-14-2015, 09:16 AM
The numbers support it and he's earned it. Great news for KW.

But...

From what I've seen this year -- this team and KW's play as an extension of the team is all predicated on the stellar year Pangos is having.
Pangos should be more in the national discussion. He is far and away the zags MVP.

+1

BBzag
01-14-2015, 10:01 AM
Looking at Kenpom's site I don't see a percentage of field goal attempts, but I do see % of minutes played, % of shots attempted while on the court, and offensive rating (to give an idea of efficiency).

If a player wasn't at about 60% of minutes played I have not included them. If they weren't near the top of the team in % of shots I didn't include them. I think the writer is off base because Raivio and because it implies his role in the offense is somewhat similar to Morrison's, which it is not.

Wiltjer, 2015, 63.9% min, 33.5% shots, 126.8 O-Rating
Karno, 2015, 63.1% min, 24.1% shots, 115.3 O-Rating

Dower, 2014, 63.9% min, 25.7% shots, 120.2
Pangos, 2014, 87.7% min, 21.6% shots, 118.2

Olynyk, 2013, 60.4% min, 29.3% shots, 123.3
Harris, 2013, 67.4% min, 25.8% shots, 116.3

Harris, 2012, 72.4% min, 25.9% shots, 110.9
Pangos, 2012, 78.8% min, 23.2% shots, 119.0

Gray, 2011, 76.2% min, 26.1% shots, 109.1
Harris, 2011, 62.7% min, 24.4% shots, 112.4

Gray, 2010, 78.8% min, 23.7% shots, 109.2
Bouldin, 2010, 85.5% min, 23.1% shots, 115.0
Harris, 2010, 72.6% min, 24.4% shots, 114.4

Daye, 2009, 65.3% min, 25.7% shots, 101.7
Heytvelt, 2009, 72.5% min, 23.8% shots, 118.8
Bouldin, 2009, 78.8% min, 20.4% shots, 119.3

Bouldin, 2008, 76.4% min, 21.4% shots, 107.0

Raivio, 2007, 89.3% min, 24.3% shots, 122.7

Morrison, 2006, 89.9% min, 36.5% shots, 120.0
Batista, 2006, 80.4% min, 26.3% shots, 121.7

Morrison, 2005, 85.4% min, 31.3% shots, 119.4
Turriaf, 2005, 78.0% min, 23.3% shots, 111.0
Batista, 2005, 58.6% min, 22.9% shots, 116.3


Interesting - adjusting for minutes played really does reinforce the Wiltjer-Morrison comparison (shot percentage-wise, anyway)

webspinnre
01-14-2015, 11:49 AM
And it actually shows Wiltjer as being more efficient than Ammo, just in fewer possessions.