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flytiezag
01-06-2015, 12:23 PM
KEEPING DRINKING THE KOOL AID. http://mashable.com/2015/01/06/college-basketball-power-rankings/

gonzagafan62
01-06-2015, 01:31 PM
I love Kool-Aid. Especially in seasons like this.

Bogozags
01-06-2015, 02:44 PM
I love our ZAGS BUT #3 just isn't realistic...I think we are athletic and deep but don't see us in the top four...I see us a #5 or #6...maybe we can fit into #4 but those four (UK, D, UVA & Wisconsin) are the real deal too...it's gonna be hard to get past them. Mind you not saying Wisconsin or UVA are better BUT they come from much better conferences. Heck, it is near impossible to even get front page on ESPN.GO.COM when we win...even if no other Top Ten team is playing - the spot light will go to another Big Name program and not GU...

We do not get "RESPECT" regardless of how good GU really is...THIS IS OUR YEAR TO MAKE WAVES IN THE TOURNEY!!! IT'S OUR YEAR!













Yes, I had some Kook Aid and some single-malt too...

DixieZag
01-06-2015, 03:25 PM
I love our ZAGS BUT #3 just isn't realistic...I think we are athletic and deep but don't see us in the top four...I see us a #5 or #6...maybe we can fit into #4 but those four (UK, D, UVA & Wisconsin) are the real deal too...it's gonna be hard to get past them. Mind you not saying Wisconsin or UVA are better BUT they come from much better conferences. Heck, it is near impossible to even get front page on ESPN.GO.COM when we win...even if no other Top Ten team is playing - the spot light will go to another Big Name program and not GU...

We do not get "RESPECT" regardless of how good GU really is...THIS IS OUR YEAR TO MAKE WAVES IN THE TOURNEY!!! IT'S OUR YEAR!

Yes, I had some Kook Aid and some single-malt too...

I agree totally.

No way are we #3.

But, so long as we're considered top 6, that's just fine. Just avoid playing those top 2 and make a play for the FT (Final "Two" Spots for Teams Not Kentucky or Duke).

gonzagafan62
01-06-2015, 05:11 PM
I agree totally.

No way are we #3.

But, so long as we're considered top 6, that's just fine. Just avoid playing those top 2 and make a play for the FT (Final "Two" Spots for Teams Not Kentucky or Duke).

I'll tell you guys one thing though... If it came down to say us or Wisconsin or Virginia for a spot in the final four I like our chances.... Especially based on past history.

seacatfan
01-06-2015, 05:19 PM
I'll tell you guys one thing though... If it came down to say us or Wisconsin or Virginia for a spot in the final four I like our chances.... Especially based on past history.

I'm still a bit traumatized by the way Kaminsky just about single handedly beat Arizona in the Tourney last year. I don't want to see any team I root for have to play the Badgers. I don't think the Zags have a player that can match up with big Frank. Karno could handle him down low, but Kaminsky would just come out high and shoot 3's or dribble drive. I think he would absolutely have his way with either Wiltjer or Sabonis.

seacatfan
01-06-2015, 05:21 PM
Not sure I like a matchup against UVa either. Didn't Wazzu pretty well own the Zags for the several years that the younger Bennett was coaching there? They aren't a star studded team, but they play excellent defense, on a level that the Zags rarely have to go up against.

caduceus
01-06-2015, 05:53 PM
Not sure I like a matchup against UVa either. Didn't Wazzu pretty well own the Zags for the several years that the younger Bennett was coaching there? They aren't a star studded team, but they play excellent defense, on a level that the Zags rarely have to go up against.

Those games vs. Bennett (Sr. and Jr.) were some of the most excruciatingly painful games to observe.

maynard g krebs
01-06-2015, 06:42 PM
Not sure I like a matchup against UVa either. Didn't Wazzu pretty well own the Zags for the several years that the younger Bennett was coaching there? They aren't a star studded team, but they play excellent defense, on a level that the Zags rarely have to go up against.

His first year WSU won by 10 at home. Second, they won by 4 at GU. Final year they lost by 22 at home. So he won 2/3, with 2 of 3 at home, but were outscored over the 3 games. Whether that constitutes owning is a matter of opinion.

seacatfan
01-06-2015, 07:03 PM
His first year WSU won by 10 at home. Second, they won by 4 at GU. Final year they lost by 22 at home. So he won 2/3, with 2 of 3 at home, but were outscored over the 3 games. Whether that constitutes owning is a matter of opinion.

My bad. I found losing to the Cougs 2 years in a row to be extremely distasteful. WSU's roster was not overly talented, Bennett is a heck of a coach. It took a few years, but he's currently thriving at UVa without having the kinds of players that Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville etc. have.

If GU gets to a Final 4, they most certainly will have to beat some good teams with good coaches to get there. Maybe it doesn't really matter that much who the opponent is, just gotta play their game and execute well. Another team I do not want to see the Zags meet is Duke. I can think of 2 regular season matchups, and GU pretty much crapped their pants in both games, just did not compete, looked they did not believe they could win. And those were not all time great Duke teams. Maybe I'm being superstitious, but I'd rather avoid a Few vs. K coaching matchup if possible.

strikenowhere
01-06-2015, 07:53 PM
I'd love to drink the kool-aid here too, but who have the Zags beat this year that shows this team is as good as we all think they are? The Zags best win, St. John's, just dropped their first three games in conference play. Georgia & SMU are underwhelming teams, and UCLA decided to mail it in this year and even BYU is only having a good, not great season while Memphis is disappointing. The only quality opponent was Arizona but the team couldn't put it away. As much as I love this team and the players on it, there is little evidence that they'd be able to hang with Duke, Kentucky, Wisconsin, & Virginia in the bracket. I wish the schedule had been more favorable with high end teams, but the ones that were scheduled decided to take this year off. Sorry if it seems like I'm being a negative nelly here, but the schedule was filled with so much promise at the beginning of the year only to turn into mush now and there isn't anything that can be done about it.

MickMick
01-06-2015, 08:22 PM
GU has to really up their level of play to be considered top 6.

Not saying they can't get there or will not get there. But as it stands now, they look very much like a round of 32 team to me. There is plenty of time for GU to improve, but then again, other teams don't stagnate while only GU gets better.

Reborn
01-07-2015, 06:18 AM
It's amazing to me how our own fans feel about their team, but it is a fact. Gonzaga does have really good wins ON THE ROAD. Too bad some of you don't seem to realize how difficult it is to win on the road. I don't see how our Zags who are 14-1 could be seen as underwhelming. Wiltjer has played some of the best basketball games that I've seen from a Zag in years. Karnowski is playing inspiring basketball and is ten times as good as he was last year. Pangos is healthy, and when needed he has delivered EVERY SINGLE TIME. Well maybe not against Arizona. But his play has just been really, really good. And he has shot fantastic ON THE ROAD this year. And OMG I can not forget Wesley. Wesley is the best 3 we've had since Adam Morrison. He plays so hard, and is such an all-around basketball player. No one will ever convince me that this is not one of the very best teams that we've had, if not the VERY BEST. We can't say whether they are until the end of the year. But to say the are underwhelming is just a disgrace to me.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

gonzagafan62
01-07-2015, 08:23 AM
It's amazing to me how our own fans feel about their team, but it is a fact. Gonzaga does have really good wins ON THE ROAD. Too bad some of you don't seem to realize how difficult it is to win on the road. I don't see how our Zags who are 14-1 could be seen as underwhelming. Wiltjer has played some of the best basketball games that I've seen from a Zag in years. Karnowski is playing inspiring basketball and is ten times as good as he was last year. Pangos is healthy, and when needed he has delivered EVERY SINGLE TIME. Well maybe not against Arizona. But his play has just been really, really good. And he has shot fantastic ON THE ROAD this year. And OMG I can not forget Wesley. Wesley is the best 3 we've had since Adam Morrison. He plays so hard, and is such an all-around basketball player. No one will ever convince me that this is not one of the very best teams that we've had, if not the VERY BEST. We can't say whether they are until the end of the year. But to say the are underwhelming is just a disgrace to me.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

Couldn't agree more.

Here are the current RPI Rankings of our (big wins)

28 Georgia
31 BYU
36 Saint John's
41 SMU

4 Wins over the Top 50? You serious? That's nothing to be ashamed about at all. Those are all good wins. And a loss to #14 Arizona... Again, not terrible. Georgia is looking like a Top 25 possible RPI team.

Other possible good wins (And UCLA on the road is never easy, come on now.... You guys should know better. Going into Pauley and winning is a daunting task to say the least)

104: Portland
107: UCLA
124: Cal Poly
128: Texas Southern
142: Washington State

Those guys are all in the Top 150. We would like more of these teams in the Top 100 of course, as it would really bolster our seeding precedents, however, Portland and UCLA aren't far off, and even Cal Poly, Texas Southern, and Wazzou have done some major work to get out of RPI 200 or worse holes in the last month. Some of ya'll get too overanxious at times around here, and I have been no different on certain topics, but this is one that can certainly be proved.

The season is still young, and a lot of these teams can start making some serious hops in the right direction.

Don't forget, we also play #89 Saint Mary's twice later in the season, which will more than certainly also help our status as well.

Underwhelming? I think not.

Zagdawg
01-07-2015, 08:35 AM
We get BYU -- 1 if not 2 more times --for a chance at 2 more top 50 wins.

BULLDOG#1
01-07-2015, 08:39 AM
While I agree with the some here that the zags are placed a bit high on this list. I disagree with the folks saying that the zags have no claim at all to be near the top of this list.

Who have they beat? Well, with the exception of a tough AZ team at home in a game that pretty much anyone watching would see the zags as a 10-12 point winner on a neutral court...

They've beaten everyone they've played.

And that means something.

Virginia is undefeated, but you could pick similar holes in their schedule (nice win at Maryland, but what else?). Or even Duke (only one true road game thus far -- which was admittedly a nice win at Wisconsin). For that matter, who has Wisconsin really beat???

The zags are for real and have earned their place in this discussion at near the top of this list. Though considered a neutral court game, the St. Johns was really an away game (and St. Johns is solid). The BYU/SD/Port swing was impressive when you consider they were all road games that the zags lost last year.

DixieZag
01-07-2015, 09:22 AM
I agree with the statement that the Zags must up their game and get better to solidify justification for being a top team. Totally.

But, what I fail to see is how a comment like this can be accepted as at least legitimately based on facts but comments about the team failing to put teams away is ridiculed by some. I sorta hear them as along the lines of the same argument with different vocab.

I really don't want to start some meta thing. I just think there's some over reaction to people who note that not putting teams away is a concern.

It's all good.

RenoZag
01-07-2015, 06:50 PM
A wise man once wrote:



I love this thread, and I love the discussion we're having, and the disagreements are what makes a good discussion, good (imo).

I think we all love the Zags, and I believe that almost all of us believe that this is a very, very good team. There are some of us fans who like to discuss some of the flaws that arise at times, and we also like to discuss or criticize poor play when we see it. . . To criticize does not mean to "not like" or "not appreciate." This is a discussion board, and (imo) it's healthy to criticize when criticism is due.

Please try to remember that this is a discussion board. And honestly, if we all came here and just praised the Zags and never criticized at all, it would be a BORING place for me.


I agree with strikenowhere and Mick Mick. It's nice for the Zags to get the Top Ten (and above) laurels and as Bulldog #1, points out, they have earned their spot in the water cooler discussion of which teams might contend in March. They are good, maybe very good. There's still room for improvement and plenty of chances ahead for them to get better.

Beat the Dons !

maynard g krebs
01-07-2015, 07:25 PM
It's amazing to me how our own fans feel about their team, but it is a fact. Gonzaga does have really good wins ON THE ROAD. Too bad some of you don't seem to realize how difficult it is to win on the road. I don't see how our Zags who are 14-1 could be seen as underwhelming. Wiltjer has played some of the best basketball games that I've seen from a Zag in years. Karnowski is playing inspiring basketball and is ten times as good as he was last year. Pangos is healthy, and when needed he has delivered EVERY SINGLE TIME. Well maybe not against Arizona. But his play has just been really, really good. And he has shot fantastic ON THE ROAD this year. And OMG I can not forget Wesley. Wesley is the best 3 we've had since Adam Morrison. He plays so hard, and is such an all-around basketball player. No one will ever convince me that this is not one of the very best teams that we've had, if not the VERY BEST. We can't say whether they are until the end of the year. But to say the are underwhelming is just a disgrace to me.



Agree completely. So does Pomeroy, who currently ranks the Zags 6th based on data. It is true imo that the Zags were a lot better with Perkins, whose presence gave them versatility in the backcourt and one more elite passer, but if McClellan lives up to reports or Perkins comes back to full strength by March, that issue is solved.

Zagger
01-08-2015, 04:01 AM
If the Zags can put away a few teams starting tonight and through March 10 - #3 could be very fitting. By March 10 we just might have both Eric and Josh heating things up too. Two months is a long time in college basketball. Lots can and will happen. I think this bunch of Zags is becoming more and more determined with Kevin, Gary and Mt. K leading the charge AND a strong supporting cast.
http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/GoZagsTinySignGuyGlassesColor.png

bartruff1
01-08-2015, 05:16 AM
Good and getting better...but not that good...with some luck....Sweet Sixteen good......then anything can happen.... if you have a chip and a chair, you have a chance.

mgadfly
01-08-2015, 08:45 AM
So far I think the Zags have a better case than most teams about who they've played and beat. As of now, with three road games against some of the better conference opposition our strength of schedule hasn't taken the hit it surely will.

Of the teams listed in the article here is Ken Pom's SOS ratings:
Louisville is the worst at 196th
Arizona = 183
Duke = 124
Texas = 104
Kentucky = 67
Virginia = 64
Wisconsin = 48
Villanova = 40
Gonzaga = 19
Kansas = 3


If the tourney started right now I think GU should be considered for the last #1 spot or one of the first two #2 spots (so 4th to 6th). I also wouldn't scoff at someone who said, based on SOS, record, and the "eye test" against Arizona (especially if we are assuming that we'll get two talented guards back that we didn't have against the Cats) that we are third behind Kentucky and Duke.

But the tourney doesn't start right now. Louisville has some quality opponents coming up and their SOS will probably leap frog ours by the first week of February. So all of that will change by the time the committee gets together. Hopefully we do well in conference play and against Memphis.

Zagger
01-08-2015, 09:35 AM
...... Hopefully we do well in conference play and against Memphis.
Boy, Memphis isn't doing too well this season: http://www.gotigersgo.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/mem-m-baskbl-sched.html
They've only scored over 80 points twice and failed to reach 50 points in three games. Betting the Zags will clobber them in the Kennel.

mgadfly
01-08-2015, 09:47 AM
Boy, Memphis isn't doing too well this season: http://www.gotigersgo.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/mem-m-baskbl-sched.html
They've only scored over 80 points twice and failed to reach 50 points in three games. Betting the Zags will clobber them in the Kennel.

I agree. I hope they play SMU tough and beat Cinci before they play us. If they don't it may end up like playing one of the mid-level WCC teams at home where if we don't win by a decent margin it is considered a catastrophe.

amaronizag
01-08-2015, 09:47 AM
WI is tough and Kaminsky is unstoppable in the paint, except maybe by Karno. Problem is he plays like Olynyk...he was a 6'2" guard that grew to 6'10" so he has those ball handling skills that I doubt Karno could deal with. He's an impossible tough matchup for our 4's so he has to be double teamed, but WI will lose some games this year. VA has Anderson who is a brute, but they aren't that deep, we're better offensively, and they will also lose some games in conference play. Even KY will lose a game or two in conference. They've has some close calls already. So has GU.....that's basketball. Our defense is better this year and so is our offense. We just won some games by scoring over 80 points on the road. We lost those games last year when we averaged in the low 70's on the road. If we can keep up this offensive production, we can run with anyone. It's those slow paced, slog it out games that put teams in danger of losing. Most DI teams can score 60-70 points a game. When you have a superior offense like GU and can score in the 80's you leave a lot of teams in the dust. I'm pretty confident we'll be a one seed come March.

mgadfly
01-08-2015, 09:59 AM
Kaminsky is #1 on Kenpom's KPOY ranking. He'd be a tough matchup for anyone.

What is kind of cool to me is Wiltjer is #6 on the KPOY ranking.

DixieZag
01-08-2015, 10:46 AM
Kaminsky is #1 on Kenpom's KPOY ranking. He'd be a tough matchup for anyone.

What is kind of cool to me is Wiltjer is #6 on the KPOY ranking.

Wow. That is very cool.

It will be fun seeing what kind of a match-up nightmare he is in conference. If he weren't going to be sharing so many minutes with 9 other players, I would think he could easily average 20-22 a game in conference.

NumberCruncher
01-08-2015, 10:53 AM
Kaminsky is #1 on Kenpom's KPOY ranking. He'd be a tough matchup for anyone.

What is kind of cool to me is Wiltjer is #6 on the KPOY ranking.

Olynyk finished his big season #6 on the KPOY ranking.

sittingon50
01-08-2015, 11:36 AM
Kaminsky is #1 on Kenpom's KPOY ranking. He'd be a tough matchup for anyone.

What is kind of cool to me is Wiltjer is #6 on the KPOY ranking.

Where are you finding the POY on KenPom, fly?

mgadfly
01-08-2015, 01:01 PM
Where are you finding the POY on KenPom, fly?

I'm not sure how to get to it directly, but if you go to Gonzaga's team page there is a black box with the number 6 in the middle of it after Wiltjer's name (alternatively you could go to Wisconsin, Duke, Virginia's page since they have players on the list). Click on the black box and it takes you to the top 10 listing.

mgadfly
01-08-2015, 01:03 PM
You can also get there by going to Player Stats and then selecting KPOY on the list of stuff that comes up.

sittingon50
01-08-2015, 10:14 PM
Got it fly. Normally don't scroll down that far. Thanks.

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
01-09-2015, 04:47 AM
Right now I think we are a team that will make the 2nd weekend of tournament without EM & Perks. My optimism has tempered with respect to how much either will contribute. Players prone to injury pretty much acts as a mitigating type factor to any great upside. EM has entered that realm for me as a fan. He should stay smiling and positive as he claims to be but some players are just snake bitten with the injury bug on a repetitive basis. There is no need to rush EM back at all. As a matter of fact I would take a healthy EM around Valentines Day IF I knew that would give him enough time to acclimate into the system smoothly. I think we are a healthy EM/and or Perks away from any serious consideration for the Final4 right now. Hopefully we eventually get it. My fingers are crossed on both of my hands! lol