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Reborn
12-29-2014, 09:14 PM
A great win for Gonzaga in Jenny Craig pavilion in San Diego. Lot's of fans there to support the Zags. I think Gonzaga fans were louder then SDU. And one more time, it was Wesley who kept us together when it got close at the end. He is very amazing. It's never pretty there, and this may have been the ugliest win I've ever seen by a Zag team there. Thank God for guys like Wiltjer and Wesley who know how to play one on one because they are the only two who do. I thank God for PK who comes to play every night, and was outstanding with his passing. Few played Sabonis way to much imo. And kept Wiltjer on the bench way to much in the second half. There was no offensive flow without him. The defense was GREAT. The defense won this one tonight. I didn't see the Zags as tired, I saw them as unfocused on offense, especially Bell who must have missed 4 lay ups.

You may have read my post earlier today on my prediction thread about how beautiful Gonzaga plays. Well, I apologize because it sure was not pretty tonight. Very unimpressed with the Zags on the offensive end tonight. Gary Bell played horrible, and to tell you honestly, I'm kind of sick of his poor production, and lack of concentration on the offensive end. He really hurt the Zags tonight in almost every way. If you know me, you know I love Gary, and most of the time his play. But not tonight. And overall, I am very, very concerned with play on offense. I would not have played him much tonight because as I saw it, he wasn't even there.

And I really almost feel the same about Sobanis. I'm kind of tired of this board's unrealistic view of his game. He is definitely not one of the best Freshmen in the country and I'm tired of hearing supposedly analysts who are supposed to know what's going on (maybe they read all the stuff on this board about him. He is not as good as Edwards would have been,imo. I seem him as a very limited game, and a very poor passer, and defender. When he is in the game Gonzaga NEVER goes on a run, and if I am right, they lose points when he's in. He stymies the offense. There is no flow, there is no continuity or cohesiveness.

OH well. As you say. A win is a win, but it was not fun to watch. As several other games have been this year. On to Portland.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

CdAZagFan
12-29-2014, 09:17 PM
Good win - It's amazing that they can play so poorly at times and still win by double digits. I thought they took their foot off the pedal with about 9 or 10 minutes left in the 2nd half. Wish they would keep pushing things until about the 4-5 minute mark and then think about slowing it down. Also seemed like they were getting beat on the boards (especially in the 2nd half). Again looked like Byron Wesley stepped up when things got tight. But still a good win....

hooter73
12-29-2014, 09:17 PM
Agree with most everything Reborn. Im ready to see our offense look like it should again. We arent getting scouted out and shut down by good defensive teams, we just arent clicking or concentrating on it.

Like I said in the prediction thread, Dee cant beat us alone.

slam dunk
12-29-2014, 09:18 PM
A win is a win...but you can't hide UGLY...

Zagdawg
12-29-2014, 09:21 PM
Two road games ---two W's --the toughest road game stretch of the year with Portland next---the results so far don't get any better than that.

Go Zags

TheZagPhish
12-29-2014, 09:21 PM
I just don't like the way SD plays ball. They slow it down, make it ugly and flop all over. So very, very ugly.

FuManShoes
12-29-2014, 09:24 PM
This team is good at lots of things but closing isn't one of them. I mean, they're making some key plays late but seems ever since Arizona, they seam to have forgotten how to put the pedal down and throttle a team out of contention. That was plain ugly. I'm not sure what's up with Bell. Yeah, he shadowed Dee but so many missed shots and silly fouls. Time to step up. When he's on, this team has 5 guys who can kill you.


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jpn17
12-29-2014, 09:24 PM
I noticed the fans. I was busy cleaning up in the kitchen early in the game, Pangos hit a 3 which I believe put Gonzaga up 15-5 and at first I thought San Diego had scored because there was so much cheering after the basket. That's some great traveling support!

These stretches of barely scoring any baskets to close out games really needs to stop. We've seen it several times this year. Arizona, UCLA and now San Deigo come to mind. There's just too much talent out there for these guys to struggle scoring for extended periods of time. I have confidence in the kids and the coaching staff that they'll find a way to work through this, but in the meantime some of these games are much closer coming down the stretch than they need to be. They're gonna have to play better than they did tonight to beat Portland in their building.

Reborn
12-29-2014, 09:25 PM
Two road games ---two W's --the toughest road game stretch of the year with Portland next---the results so far don't get any better than that.

Go Zags

But isn't it okay to discuss the game here. After all this is a discussion board. I do appreciate fans who come here to share there thoughts and analysis of the game.

Go Zags!!!

Mantua
12-29-2014, 09:27 PM
Who knows what the stomach flu is doing. I'm glad they are getting over it early.

Right now bad games can be good as long as we win by over ten and keep learning from the mistakes. At times in the second half, the Zags looked haplessly disorganized. I'm hoping its part of a growth spurt.

Reborn
12-29-2014, 09:29 PM
I noticed the fans. I was busy cleaning up in the kitchen early in the game, Pangos hit a 3 which I believe put Gonzaga up 15-5 and at first I thought San Diego had scored because there was so much cheering after the basket. That's some great traveling support!

These stretches of barely scoring any baskets to close out games really needs to stop. We've seen it several times this year. Arizona, UCLA and now San Deigo come to mind. There's just too much talent out there for these guys to struggle scoring for extended periods of time. I have confidence in the kids and the coaching staff that they'll find a way to work through this, but in the meantime some of these games are much closer coming down the stretch than they need to be. They're gonna have to play better than they did tonight to beat Portland in their building.

Over the years this may be the worst trait Gonzaga has. And then night when the team needs to play great in the second half, they are not used to it and lose. The games in March that I feel were games we should have won were games that Gonzaga lost in the last five minutes of games. An analysis of this tendency needs to be noted by the coaching staff and then deal with it. Teams do form habits, and it is a BAD habit to not CLOSE OUT GAMES well. And I believe it's all about substitution, and I've complained enough already about that this year. So I won't tonight. Kevin and Gary were horrible in the second half tonight. Very, very very poor guard play. I'm disappointed really.

Go Zags!!!

RenoZag
12-29-2014, 09:30 PM
Bell's offensive production is a disappointment but I think he makes up for it (and then some) on defense. Thought he did an excellent job on Dee tonight.

WCC road games are rarely a thing of beauty.

Congrats to the Zags for starting the conference schedule 2 - 0 and for going 7 -1 in December.

phxfireflames
12-29-2014, 09:31 PM
I give Bell Jr. a pass for this game, guarding Johnny Dee for most of the game is enough for 1 person let alone also contribute his usual average on the offensive end.

Marcus
12-29-2014, 09:32 PM
To the point of not being able to keep the intensity the whole game, I feel this is where Perkins is missed the most. When he played he brought some swagger to the second unit. He also allowed Pangos to play off the ball. Having to floor generals that can really make the offense run seamlessly can really break the will of the other team. They play a bit different style too but are both really effective.

Mantua
12-29-2014, 09:35 PM
I think it has more to do with everybody playing defense all of the time. Some players looked a little lost on offense in the second half which puts a much greater burden on Pangos and Bell.

Zagdawg
12-29-2014, 09:36 PM
Not sure what you are trying to say--I shared my thoughts--- I may not meet the 800 word minimum requirement of some for a post--but I will stick with quality over quantity.

By the way--the kids name is Sabonis----if you are going to bust on him--at least spell his name correctly. Kids a freshman and still learning --give him a break before you toss him aside.

My .02 I guess.

gobroncsgozags
12-29-2014, 09:39 PM
I just don't like the way SD plays ball. They slow it down, make it ugly and flop all over. So very, very ugly.

Agreed.

I, personally, have little respect for Grier for multiple reasons. Flopping, hacking, fouling down by double digits with 30 seconds left are just some of them. I will be glad when San Diego cans him.

Mantua
12-29-2014, 09:39 PM
Ok Sabonis AND Wiltjer.

I don't want to pick any fights or be seen as hypercritical, but Kw's defense was awful in stretches. They are both learning the system.

rennis
12-29-2014, 09:40 PM
Great win in The Whales V. Happy to see them redeem after losing on that floor last year.

Tough grinder, not fun to watch, but great sign they can win a grinder in a game following an offensive showdown as we saw in BYU. Won't be the same in K2, Bulldogs will win by 30 at home.


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john montana
12-29-2014, 09:46 PM
Bell's offensive production is a disappointment but I think he makes up for it (and then some) on defense. Thought he did an excellent job on Dee tonight.

This. There are two sides to a basketball court, and GBJ is far and away our best perimeter defender. He locked down dee for 30 minutes. KD did a great job on dee as well, but KD actually made the mistake late that let Dee pop loose for a three that sort of got him going there. Gbj missed two layups early that he should have made, but his defense was fantastic.

In general, sd knows how to blow up our sets. They double well and push our guards away from our sets and Anderson gives pangos fits. I was impressed with how patient PK was, and KD was just a monster...man that kid is a great all around player. Wesley is tough as nails going to the rim, love that.

I am not disappointed in that win at all. My only "concern" is our back up guard spot. We need Perkins. Melson, despite some posters saying is a likely one and done (that still cracks me up) is just not ready for major minutes. He is going to be a major player, but no way could he deal with anderson's ball pressure tonight.

Good win...2-0.

Mantua
12-29-2014, 09:46 PM
Agreed.

I, personally, have little respect for Grier for multiple reasons. Flopping, hacking, fouling down by double digits with 30 seconds left are just some of them. I will be glad when San Diego cans him.

Few wouldn't let players lead with their jaws on defense.

BULLDOG#1
12-29-2014, 09:48 PM
Bell did a great job on Dee tonight. So he missed some shots... What matters is the job he did on Dee. Both Bell and Dranginis shadowed him like crazy. I think this was a rock solid win for the zags...

TheZagPhish
12-29-2014, 09:50 PM
Karno's wicked behind-the-back dish was a thing of beauty.

gobroncsgozags
12-29-2014, 09:51 PM
Karno's wicked behind-the-back dish was a thing of beauty.

One of my favorite plays of the season. How many 7 footers make that pass? I rewound that thing 12 times and still couldn't believe it.

Zagdawg
12-29-2014, 09:52 PM
Grier knows Gonzaga better than any opposing coach in the WCC ---since he worked with Few for so many years--- he has Bankhead as an assistant----they know exactly what they need to do to disrupt the Zag system/sets---- As long as Grier is at San Diego--they will have a solid shot at beating us.

Go Zags

flytiezag
12-29-2014, 09:55 PM
Sabonis was in there to get rebounds and be tough.They were up in ever ones face just to get a good shot was hard and very tiring.To win a game like this is great.Another great learning experience Go Zags.

Zag365
12-29-2014, 10:05 PM
I thought this was the year that a Zag team would be able to deal with teams that play physical. But we are struggling. We should be going at teams more. Instead we let defenses get up on us, slap, swipe, and push us around. We need a little more Mike Hart attitude with a purpose. We need to pass, drive, and rebound with more authority.

Shem gets pushed out of position to receive passes and has too many balls taken away/blocked/tipped for a guy his size. Sabonis needs to accept that he's going to get pushed, pulled, and hacked. He's playing frustrated and playing recklessly, not in rhythm. Our guards and wings, with exception of BWes, are not driving the key enough to pressure defenses or finding ways to get more passes to post players where we have an edge over most teams like USD.

Mantua
12-29-2014, 10:10 PM
I thought this was the year that a Zag team would be able to deal with teams that play physical. But we are struggling. We should be going at teams more. Instead we let defenses get up on us, slap, swipe, and push us around. We need a little more Mike Hart attitude with a purpose. We need to pass, drive, and rebound with more authority.

Shem gets pushed out of position to receive passes and has too many balls taken away/blocked/tipped for a guy his size. Sabonis needs to accept that he's going to get pushed, pulled, and hacked. He's playing frustrated and playing recklessly, not in rhythm. Our guards and wings, with exception of BWes, are not driving the key enough to pressure defenses or finding ways to get more passes to post players where we have an edge over most teams like USD.

Wesley fouled early in the game but at least he was playing hard as he always does, a great role model. Ditto Gary Bell.

ZagsGoZags
12-29-2014, 10:11 PM
Not sure what you are trying to say--I shared my thoughts--- I may not meet the 800 word minimum requirement of some for a post--but I will stick with quality over quantity.

By the way--the kids name is Sabonis----if you are going to bust on him--at least spell his name correctly. Kids a freshman and still learning --give him a break before you toss him aside.

My .02 I guess.

Zagdawg - I think the misspelling of Sabonis was just a typo, Reborn typed it correctly earlier in his post, and in his other posts.

hooter73
12-29-2014, 10:15 PM
Bell gets an offensive pass every game, just like Hart did. They are/were amazing players. I just dont agree that they cant do both.

GonzaGAW
12-29-2014, 10:32 PM
sure it was a win, we were suppose to win. positives, karno bounce pass, wiltjers 3 stroke, bell's defense, dranginis all around effort.

but that was not the play of a #7 ranked team, if our team played that way in the tourney they would not beat a #7 seed.

I will never bad mouth the team or a win, but fellas you best find lots to learn and improve upon this game.

seacatfan
12-29-2014, 10:36 PM
You cannot compare Bell's offensive production to Hart's. Not even remotely. Hart simply COULDN'T score. Bell isn't consistent, but any given game can get 15 or 20 and make it look easy.

Ezag
12-29-2014, 11:49 PM
For a team that is supposed to have unlimited offensive weapons we sure are offensively challenged at times. Defense is mediocre. Yes we are 12-1 and I am complaining. This is supposed to be the best Zag team ever, just doesn't look at good as it should. Maybe this is how good looks. I don't know.
'

ZagaZags
12-30-2014, 12:39 AM
I knew Sabonis was big, but seeing him up close, he is ginormous. Byron Wesley looks so smooth on the court, he will be a major cog for a deep run in March. Gary Bell Jr. was hitting everything in warm-ups, I hope to see GBJ get things back on track on the offensive end. Watching Brian Michaelson work the sidelines and bench reminded me of how great this staff is from top to bottom.

ZagaZags
12-30-2014, 02:19 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Sarunas_Marciulionis_in_Armenia_2.jpg/200px-Sarunas_Marciulionis_in_Armenia_2.jpg
Šarūnas Marčiulionis was there to visit with Domantas Sabonis after the game.

Zagger
12-30-2014, 03:39 AM
Another W :)
Only disappoint I have is inconsistent officiating. Each Zag is playing hard and playing smart to their own current abilities. (IMHO) As the season progresses I'm sure we'll see the good, bad & ugly - and I hope the bad & ugly is confined to the refs. I'm excited to see Eric on the floor & Josh to return. Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
12-30-2014, 03:42 AM
Bornie, u nailed it. Bell is 4-21 in last 3 games. He does get a Hart like pass but I don't see why. He has more skills than Mike ever had. Wes is a closer, Zags haven't had such a player in that spot in years. KW great in limited time. I thought Karno was outstanding as was KD. Poor games for Sabonis and Melson, meh for KP. Desperately miss Jenks and if Mac is Wes 2.0 we are golden.

caduceus
12-30-2014, 04:28 AM
Sigh...

The Zags outscored USD by 16 points (44 to 28) when GBJr was on the floor. In the 11 minutes he was on the bench, USD scored nearly half of their points (20), and outscored the Zags by 4.

Defense won this game, hands down. There's a very good reason the Zags jumped nearly 15 spots in defensive efficiency after this game.

Also, the Zags gained 9 points (38 to 29) over USD while Sabonis was on the court.

jazzdelmar
12-30-2014, 04:35 AM
Cad, IMO not terribly revealing agst a clearly inferior team whose best players had mediocre games.

To anyone who was there: Was it full (didn't look it) and was it as ugly as on the tube?





Sigh...

The Zags outscored USD by 16 points (44 to 28) when GBJr was on the floor. In the 11 minutes he was on the bench, USD scored nearly half of their points (20), and outscored the Zags by 4.

Defense won this game, hands down. There's a very good reason the Zags jumped nearly 15 spots in defensive efficiency after this game.

Also, the Zags gained 9 points (38 to 29) over USD while Sabonis was on the court.

DixieZag
12-30-2014, 04:47 AM
I'm one who can be awfully critical at times, but I sure don't see must to criticize this game:

1) USD Slim Gym is our hall of horrors in which we manage to lose all too regularly b/c our former long term assistant and Coach's best friend coaches there. He know exactly how to get at the things we do, including mucking it up, making it look like a high school wrestling match. He's trying to save his job, he's not looking for style points.

2.) It was a road game 48 hours after our toughest road game of the year against BYU, and BYU was hard fought up to the end.

3.) I do not see the problems that I often see in the last 8:00 in this one. I saw missed shots, but missed good shots. When I worry about the last 9:00 in the past, it is turnovers, not attacking until the last 10 seconds, passivity, turnovers, lack of rebounding and turnovers. In this one, I saw some missed good shots, lay ups, bunnies, open jumpers. Perhaps b/c they were tired b/c it was 48 hours after.....

4.) We kept one of the league's most elite scorers almost irrelevant for most of the game.

5.) We won by double digits and from the first 16:00 time out, the game was never in doubt.

I'm so totally ready to be critical of the team if I really see issues, but I saw nothing more than a tough win. When shots don't fall, a great team wins with defense. We won.

caduceus
12-30-2014, 05:08 AM
Cad, IMO not terribly revealing agst a clearly inferior team whose best players had mediocre games.

San Diego is ranked in the top #100 on Pomeroy. Defensively, they're rated much higher than Oregon, Pitt, Xavier, Colorado St., Notre Dame. Offensively, they're rated higher than Butler, St. John's, SD St., and Memphis.

Perhaps their whole team had an off night. More likely we took them out of their game (at the expense of offensive production).

jazzdelmar
12-30-2014, 05:37 AM
Thats stunning to me, Cad. Talk about lying statistics.....I guess mucking it up, draining the clock passes for good D these days....and pumping up threes is good O.....I dont think USD wd have a snowballs chance agst any of the teams you cite....they are quite mediocre and only Dee makes them even viable...Anderson is half the player he appeared to be as a frosh.....pretty selfish.....I do like the Dutch big, tho. Kito?




San Diego is ranked in the top #100 on Pomeroy. Defensively, they're rated much higher than Oregon, Pitt, Xavier, Colorado St., Notre Dame. Offensively, they're rated higher than Butler, St. John's, SD St., and Memphis.

Perhaps their whole team had an off night. More likely we took them out of their game (at the expense of offensive production).

A to Zags
12-30-2014, 05:46 AM
Grier knows Gonzaga better than any opposing coach in the WCC ---since he worked with Few for so many years--- he has Bankhead as an assistant----they know exactly what they need to do to disrupt the Zag system/sets---- As long as Grier is at San Diego--they will have a solid shot at beating us.

Go Zags
This opinion has been expressed by many in the past. I am no coach but do we have so few sets and so limited numbers of plays and options that a coach who was on our staff quite a few years ago has an advantage? A good coach like Few should have countered that notion a long time ago I would think. I personally subscribe to the idea of our second road game 48 hours after a huge effort, the flu bug perhaps?, expectations of a win, and an opponent that played desperately (they do have talent). I thought Saurbagh, sorry for spelling error?, played his heart out for obvious reasons. No team in my memory ever plays up to their potential/ranking every night out, period. Great win, I love these kids!

Zags11
12-30-2014, 06:03 AM
Ugly game but a win is a win. Bell had to be drained running through screens to guard dee. It doesnt excuse his slump but this game imo it does. Every game isnt gonnaa be pretty and thats why a win is a win. We are now 13-1 almost halfway through the year and top 10 in America. Sabonis wont be awesome every game nor will pangos, wit,etc. I do wish we didnt have long scoring droughts and it is systematic but it is what it is.

bigblahla
12-30-2014, 06:57 AM
It seems at times Zag fans forget there is another TEAM on the floor trying to win the game....ANYWAY THEY CAN....this game was never in doubt....breathe Zag fans as it will take a really bad night for GU to drop one in the WCC.....we are a broken jaw away from being undefeated and with McClellan coming next week and Perkins in Feb....this is a Zag TEAM to reckon with....

I do not expect easy sailing on the road in the WCC quite the opposite but I don't expect any of our brethren having what it takes to defeat this group of Zags on their floor, our floor or in Vegas....

Go!! Zags!!!

U Zig, I Zag
12-30-2014, 07:21 AM
Sloppy looking game. Fits and starts. Overall, I prefer KW/Pangos style ball to anything else. Shem played great, his presence was felt down low for sure. Bell did a great job on D. Never gives up. I know his shot isn't falling, but it will.

Sabonis has some skills. He looked way better earlier in the year. He just looks frustrated all the time now. Spends way too many trips up and down the court yapping at the refs about a call he felt didn't go his way. He also just needs to shoot it off the pass, use the glass. Right now he feels he has to go left, go right, up and under, etc. Just turn and let it go.

Our D looked good overall. Aggressive. The rebounds seemed off, mostly because after a shot we dropped back and didn't collapse. I think the only one that tries to ballhawk is Kyle.

rijman
12-30-2014, 07:22 AM
Jazz, someone told me it was a sellout although the box score shows 4,517, so short of a full crowd, capacity is 5,100. It looked full to me and it seemed like half were Zags fans. BTW- USD had 1,442 in attendance 2 days earlier vs Portland, so the Zags game was a big improvement thanks in large part to the Zags fans. The "W" brothers did not disappoint. I am always happy to see the Zags play live even though at USD the games are typically close and low scoring.

Reborn
12-30-2014, 07:25 AM
I love this thread, and I love the discussion we're having, and the disagreements are what makes a good discussion, good (imo). Thanks for your participation.

I think we all love the Zags, and I believe that almost all of us believe that this is a very, very good team and maybe the best Zag team ever. There are some of us fans who like to discuss some of the flaws that arise at times, and we also like to discuss or criticize poor play when we see it. I think we all would agree that no one is perfect; so that when players perform below the standard that some of us expect we like to talk about it. To criticize does not mean to "not like" or "not appreciate." This is a discussion board, and (imo) it's healthy to criticize when criticism is due. Gonzaga does not play well in Jenny Craig Pavilion. So I think we are all quite happy that the Zags won there. I pretty much expected to see the kind of game that I saw last night. I predicted the Zags would win by 13. A 12 point win there is certainly good. Going 2-0 on this road trip was awesome. We ALL believe that. So when some of us criticize please don't tell us to "chill out" or "relax." Please try to remember that this is a discussion board. And honestly, if we all came here and just praised the Zags every game and never criticized at all, it would be a BORING place for me.

Go Zags!!!

dadair
12-30-2014, 07:32 AM
+1


This. There are two sides to a basketball court, and GBJ is far and away our best perimeter defender. He locked down dee for 30 minutes. KD did a great job on dee as well, but KD actually made the mistake late that let Dee pop loose for a three that sort of got him going there. Gbj missed two layups early that he should have made, but his defense was fantastic.

In general, sd knows how to blow up our sets. They double well and push our guards away from our sets and Anderson gives pangos fits. I was impressed with how patient PK was, and KD was just a monster...man that kid is a great all around player. Wesley is tough as nails going to the rim, love that.

I am not disappointed in that win at all. My only "concern" is our back up guard spot. We need Perkins. Melson, despite some posters saying is a likely one and done (that still cracks me up) is just not ready for major minutes. He is going to be a major player, but no way could he deal with anderson's ball pressure tonight.

Good win...2-0.

raise the zag
12-30-2014, 07:35 AM
Always frustrating to face Coach Grier, imho.

Year in, year out, no matter the team or players, he lays out the blue-print for defending us.

Give and take facing an ex-coach who employs the same system.

I've thought about it for years now, opposing teams must await game tape of USD vs GU to find out how to best exploit our offense in that particular year.

Same as always, Coach Grier knows how to best defend us. While it wasn't enough, given our own underrated defense, other teams -- in and out of conference -- will key up this tape.

Dunno why, yet this frustrates me, and I now realize why Coaches do not prefer to face ex-coaches.

cjm720
12-30-2014, 07:35 AM
Welcome to the league, Sabonis. Quite the learning curve....

Good team win.

Baseline
12-30-2014, 07:37 AM
This was a good win, but an ugly one in my opinion. There was enough teaching moments in the game that the coaches could be kept busy for a month addressing things. Sabonis is getting doubled and they go for the ball when he dribbles. He needs coaching on what to do, I'm sure they will address it.

dadair
12-30-2014, 07:38 AM
Totally agree, Dixie. Point by point.


I'm one who can be awfully critical at times, but I sure don't see must to criticize this game:

1) USD Slim Gym is our hall of horrors in which we manage to lose all too regularly b/c our former long term assistant and Coach's best friend coaches there. He know exactly how to get at the things we do, including mucking it up, making it look like a high school wrestling match. He's trying to save his job, he's not looking for style points.

2.) It was a road game 48 hours after our toughest road game of the year against BYU, and BYU was hard fought up to the end.

3.) I do not see the problems that I often see in the last 8:00 in this one. I saw missed shots, but missed good shots. When I worry about the last 9:00 in the past, it is turnovers, not attacking until the last 10 seconds, passivity, turnovers, lack of rebounding and turnovers. In this one, I saw some missed good shots, lay ups, bunnies, open jumpers. Perhaps b/c they were tired b/c it was 48 hours after.....

4.) We kept one of the league's most elite scorers almost irrelevant for most of the game.

5.) We won by double digits and from the first 16:00 time out, the game was never in doubt.

I'm so totally ready to be critical of the team if I really see issues, but I saw nothing more than a tough win. When shots don't fall, a great team wins with defense. We won.

former1dog
12-30-2014, 07:39 AM
It's tough to win a basketball game when the other team is playing football/rugby and the refs are letting them get away with it.

VinnyZag
12-30-2014, 07:47 AM
Here's what Gary Bell said in Meehan's gamer (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2014/dec/29/zags-defeat-san-diego-60-48/):


“I’ll take it,” said senior guard Gary Bell Jr., who pestered Dee most of the night. “Last year we went 0-2 on this trip. I’ll take this any day.”

Pretty much sums it up.

Reborn
12-30-2014, 07:57 AM
Who wouldn't say what Gary did? Did he say anything about his play?

basketballzag
12-30-2014, 08:24 AM
Who wouldn't say what Gary did? Did he say anything about his play?

What was amazing about last night's performance was the defensive battle that took place on the court by both teams. Gary Bell held Johnny Dee to a 1 for 11 shooting night when Bell was tasked with defending Dee. Dee went 5 for 16 which tells you how impressive of a job Gary Bell Jr. did last night defensively. The Zags traditionally would have lost a game like this if it wasn't for Bell's defensive effort but to offset Bell's offensive woes Byron Wesley came on and did things offensively that I haven't seen a player do since Ammo. The great thing about Byron Wesley's play this year is that because of him Gonzaga is going to start attracting top tier wings from across the Country. If I am a top tier recruit or transfer SG/SF Gonzaga would be one of the the first places I took a look at because the system is designed to excel with a any recruit/transfer who is remotely as talented as Byron Wesley.

I just don't think the fans realize how special of a player Byron Wesley really is---he is not just athletically gifted but he possesses a high basketball IQ that screams next level. More often than not the players who have a parent who is a coach or played professionally have high basketball IQs but Wesley, Pangos, and Wiltjer are Rhodes scholars. No wonder the idiot coach at USC butted heads with Wesley--its because Wesley was smarter than the Coach on the court!

gonzagafan62
12-30-2014, 08:28 AM
Now for the last revenge game on Saturday. Time to take down the Pilots!!!!!!!!

Go 3-0 on this trip, and go back to the Kennel. Go Zags!

basketballzag
12-30-2014, 08:29 AM
Now for the last revenge game on Saturday. Time to take down the Pilots!!!!!!!!

Go 3-0 on this trip, and go back to the Kennel. Go Zags!

I want to see Angel Nunez get his double-double against Portland and watch Karno attempt a 3!

hooter73
12-30-2014, 08:31 AM
Gotta agree with the thought that its been 8 years, if Grier still knows us so well then there is something wrong.

I really hope McClellan (and if Perkins makes it back) re-energizes this team.

Edit:
Agree on wanting to see some Nunez. Hope hes feeling better by this weekend.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-30-2014, 08:38 AM
Sigh...

The Zags outscored USD by 16 points (44 to 28) when GBJr was on the floor. In the 11 minutes he was on the bench, USD scored nearly half of their points (20), and outscored the Zags by 4.

Defense won this game, hands down. There's a very good reason the Zags jumped nearly 15 spots in defensive efficiency after this game.

Also, the Zags gained 9 points (38 to 29) over USD while Sabonis was on the court.

Excellent point Cad...as impressive as Wiltjer is on offense, he is a major liability on defense. Some posts in this thread have said KW should have played more than he did, but I trust the coaching staff to make substitution decisions based on the most important facet of the game: DEFENSE...

TheGonzagaFactor
12-30-2014, 09:16 AM
For a team that is supposed to have unlimited offensive weapons we sure are offensively challenged at times. Defense is mediocre. Yes we are 12-1 and I am complaining. This is supposed to be the best Zag team ever, just doesn't look at good as it should. Maybe this is how good looks. I don't know.
'

Didn't the team 2 years ago that got a 1 seed barely win at USD by like 4 points?

amaronizag
12-30-2014, 09:18 AM
Cad and Flex, do you think Wiltjer is not as good on defense as Sabonis? Do you think what you perceive to be poor defense out weighs the positive impact of Wiltjer's offense? Yes defense is important, very important, but you have to outscore your opponent to win. You can never stop every shot, so in the end, it's your ability to outscore the opponent that decides the game. Did you consider the possibility that Wiltjer's offensive abilities out weigh his defensive liabilities? Do you doubt that?

jazzdelmar
12-30-2014, 09:38 AM
I just don't think the fans realize how special of a player Byron Wesley really is---he is not just athletically gifted but he possesses a high basketball IQ that screams next level. More often than not the players who have a parent who is a coach or played professionally have high basketball IQs but Wesley, Pangos, and Wiltjer are Rhodes scholars. No wonder the idiot coach at USC butted heads with Wesley--its because Wesley was smarter than the Coach on the court!

BBZag, spot on....he is best since Ammo, better than MB and Downs IMO....If BW was 6-6 he wd be an top NBA prospect.....

I think little Andy will be gawn soon. Pat Haden has short patience. At least Enfield will still have his gawjuss wife to look at.

ZagsGoZags
12-30-2014, 10:01 AM
Sloppy looking game. Fits and starts. Overall, I prefer KW/Pangos style ball to anything else. Shem played great, his presence was felt down low for sure. Bell did a great job on D. Never gives up. I know his shot isn't falling, but it will.

Sabonis has some skills. He looked way better earlier in the year. He just looks frustrated all the time now. Spends way too many trips up and down the court yapping at the refs about a call he felt didn't go his way. He also just needs to shoot it off the pass, use the glass. Right now he feels he has to go left, go right, up and under, etc. Just turn and let it go.

Our D looked good overall. Aggressive. The rebounds seemed off, mostly because after a shot we dropped back and didn't collapse. I think the only one that tries to ballhawk is Kyle.

Kyle D or Kyle W ??

caduceus
12-30-2014, 10:13 AM
Cad and Flex, do you think Wiltjer is not as good on defense as Sabonis? Do you think what you perceive to be poor defense out weighs the positive impact of Wiltjer's offense? Yes defense is important, very important, but you have to outscore your opponent to win. You can never stop every shot, so in the end, it's your ability to outscore the opponent that decides the game. Did you consider the possibility that Wiltjer's offensive abilities out weigh his defensive liabilities? Do you doubt that?

I don't think I've ever said much of anything about Wiltjer's defense, so I'm not sure why you're asking me. :) I think Kyle is a reasonable defender and an absolutely great scorer. Such a smooth shot. I've seen him get beat on the dribble at times by fast guards. I have no doubt that his offensive abilities outweigh his defensive liabilities, and I couldn't be happier that he's a Zag. He's saved our butts in many games so far.

Personally I weigh offense and defense pretty equally, and great teams almost always have a good balance of both on the team. Interestingly, history suggests that defense gets you to the final four, but offense gets you the championship.

As for your first question, I haven't really seen enough of Sabonis to judge his overall capabilities. He's got a ton of potential, seems to be a very good rebounder, and has a great motor. Unfortunately, his propensity to rapidly acquire fouls inhibits passing judgment on his overall skill, particularly his defense. Of course, he's only a freshman.

gonzagafan62
12-30-2014, 10:17 AM
What was amazing about last night's performance was the defensive battle that took place on the court by both teams. Gary Bell held Johnny Dee to a 1 for 11 shooting night when Bell was tasked with defending Dee. Dee went 5 for 16 which tells you how impressive of a job Gary Bell Jr. did last night defensively. The Zags traditionally would have lost a game like this if it wasn't for Bell's defensive effort but to offset Bell's offensive woes Byron Wesley came on and did things offensively that I haven't seen a player do since Ammo. The great thing about Byron Wesley's play this year is that because of him Gonzaga is going to start attracting top tier wings from across the Country. If I am a top tier recruit or transfer SG/SF Gonzaga would be one of the the first places I took a look at because the system is designed to excel with a any recruit/transfer who is remotely as talented as Byron Wesley.

I just don't think the fans realize how special of a player Byron Wesley really is---he is not just athletically gifted but he possesses a high basketball IQ that screams next level. More often than not the players who have a parent who is a coach or played professionally have high basketball IQs but Wesley, Pangos, and Wiltjer are Rhodes scholars. No wonder the idiot coach at USC butted heads with Wesley--its because Wesley was smarter than the Coach on the court!

BINGO!

Reborn
12-30-2014, 10:23 AM
I don't think I've ever said much of anything about Wiltjer's defense, so I'm not sure why you're asking me. :) I think Kyle is a reasonable defender and an absolutely great scorer. Such a smooth shot. I've seen him get beat on the dribble at times by fast guards. I have no doubt that his offensive abilities outweigh his defensive liabilities, and I couldn't be happier that he's a Zag. He's saved our butts in many games so far.

Personally I weigh offense and defense pretty equally, and great teams almost always have a good balance of both on the team. Interestingly, history suggests that defense gets you to the final four, but offense gets you the championship.

As for your first question, I haven't really seen enough of Sabonis to judge his overall capabilities. He's got a ton of potential, seems to be a very good rebounder, and has a great motor. Unfortunately, his propensity to rapidly acquire fouls inhibits passing judgment on his overall skill, particularly his defense. Of course, he's only a freshman.

I pretty good critique. I agree. Both do contribute while on the court, and Wiltjer does contribute more, especially on offense. Unfortunately for Sabonis he's playing behind two very good players. I thought Sabonis played better last night overall. Hope he keeps improving.

Go Zags!!!
One game at a time!

zag buddy
12-30-2014, 11:01 AM
Defense vs offense. You just need enough defense to keep the opponent behind your offensive production. So the better your offense is the weaker your defense can be.

HillBillyZag
12-30-2014, 11:09 AM
I'm going to ask why?, of the eight players who see most minutes on this Gonzaga Team, is Kyle Dranginis usually the least discussed? Unless he is being criticized ?, in which case, some fans are asking why he even plays? The truth is that OVERALL Kyle Dranginis is arguably the third best basketball player on this team. He can defend well, He can rebound well, he passes well, and when called upon to do so?, he can score, from both outside, and taking it to the hole. Last night in San Diego I saw him lose his man ONE TIME, and it cost a three. In 21 minutes he had four defensive rebounds, two assists, two blocks, a steal, and scored six points on 3 of 4 attempts. He never whines, always does his job, and frankly if he does not start or get MAJOR minutes his Senior year, this Gonzaga fan will be hugely disappointed.

Chicken Ball
12-30-2014, 11:22 AM
I just don't think the fans realize how special of a player Byron Wesley really is---he is not just athletically gifted but he possesses a high basketball IQ that screams next level. More often than not the players who have a parent who is a coach or played professionally have high basketball IQs but Wesley, Pangos, and Wiltjer are Rhodes scholars. No wonder the idiot coach at USC butted heads with Wesley--its because Wesley was smarter than the Coach on the court![/QUOTE]

Great post. Kenpom's stats say the five best players in the WCC this year are: 1 Wiltjer, 2 Waldow, 3 Wesley, 4 Haws, 5 Karnowski.

Wesley's not just a terrific player on our team, he's one of the top 3 most valuable players in the conference.

john montana
12-30-2014, 11:29 AM
I'm going to ask why?, of the eight players who see most minutes on this Gonzaga Team, is Kyle Dranginis usually the least discussed? Unless he is being criticized ?, in which case, some fans are asking why he even plays? The truth is that OVERALL Kyle Dranginis is arguably the third best basketball player on this team. He can defend well, He can rebound well, he passes well, and when called upon to do so?, he can score, from both outside, and taking it to the hole. Last night in San Diego I saw him lose his man ONE TIME, and it cost a three. In 21 minutes he had four defensive rebounds, two assists, two blocks, a steal, and scored six points on 3 of 4 attempts. He never whines, always does his job, and frankly if he does not start or get MAJOR minutes his Senior year, this Gonzaga fan will be hugely disappointed.

totally agree with you. I know earlier this year posters were constantly complaining about KD, but I think most have come around now. I love the way he plays (I cringed when I saw him help off of Dee, but that was literally the ONE defensive mistake he made last night.) I am totally comfortable with KD on the floor...not saying he should play ahead of Wesley or Bell, but he deserves every minute he gets. Fantastic team player.

hooter73
12-30-2014, 11:29 AM
I'm going to ask why?, of the eight players who see most minutes on this Gonzaga Team, is Kyle Dranginis usually the least discussed? Unless he is being criticized ?, in which case, some fans are asking why he even plays? The truth is that OVERALL Kyle Dranginis is arguably the third best basketball player on this team. He can defend well, He can rebound well, he passes well, and when called upon to do so?, he can score, from both outside, and taking it to the hole. Last night in San Diego I saw him lose his man ONE TIME, and it cost a three. In 21 minutes he had four defensive rebounds, two assists, two blocks, a steal, and scored six points on 3 of 4 attempts. He never whines, always does his job, and frankly if he does not start or get MAJOR minutes his Senior year, this Gonzaga fan will be hugely disappointed.

He is VERY underrated for all the reasons you described. His first two years he wasnt clicking offensively and made some bone headed plays, this year he is very much more on track and his senior year I expect he will be the next Wesley who plays a ton of minutes, fills the stats but still doesnt get the press as a star.

slam dunk
12-30-2014, 01:06 PM
I'm going to ask why?, of the eight players who see most minutes on this Gonzaga Team, is Kyle Dranginis usually the least discussed? Unless he is being criticized ?, in which case, some fans are asking why he even plays? The truth is that OVERALL Kyle Dranginis is arguably the third best basketball player on this team. He can defend well, He can rebound well, he passes well, and when called upon to do so?, he can score, from both outside, and taking it to the hole. Last night in San Diego I saw him lose his man ONE TIME, and it cost a three. In 21 minutes he had four defensive rebounds, two assists, two blocks, a steal, and scored six points on 3 of 4 attempts. He never whines, always does his job, and frankly if he does not start or get MAJOR minutes his Senior year, this Gonzaga fan will be hugely disappointed.

A+++++++

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-30-2014, 01:17 PM
Cad and Flex, do you think Wiltjer is not as good on defense as Sabonis? Do you think what you perceive to be poor defense out weighs the positive impact of Wiltjer's offense? Yes defense is important, very important, but you have to outscore your opponent to win. You can never stop every shot, so in the end, it's your ability to outscore the opponent that decides the game. Did you consider the possibility that Wiltjer's offensive abilities out weigh his defensive liabilities? Do you doubt that?

Amaronizag, I definitely think Wiltjer's exceptional offensive game outweighs his defensive liabilities which basically supports the point I did not make very well in earlier post. Namely, once the Zags build a comfortable lead on a team then it makes sense Wiltjer may not get as many minutes thereafter as the coaches choose to go with their best defensive lineup to sustain the lead. I do believe Sabonis is a better rebounder and defender than KW...or maybe they are pretty much equal on the defensive end but coaches are simply trying to give Sabonis minutes.

Bottom line is, I love these Zags and trust the coaches to handle the substitution patterns however they see fit. If that means they sit KW longer then earlier posts on this thread agree with, which is what I was replying to, then I trust their decision to do so and suspect it has to do with wanting the best defensive unit on the floor at that point of the game.

Zagceo
12-30-2014, 01:33 PM
I'm concerned about Domas. His body language of frustration at not getting touches in the post when he believes he's open is front and center not only in games but on the sidelines. He's 19 and I'm not criticizing him but he's acting 19 and thats OK as long as he's not unhappy. I noticed Morrison speaking with Domas and Bell at different timeouts individually…………. hope it helps.

Zags South showed in strong numbers. The USD kids are still on break but half the crowd was Zags so it was still nice to see the support and the players did acknowledge it after the game.

OZZY
12-30-2014, 01:38 PM
The day after...

I admit I was a bit underwhelmed about the teams second half play yesterday.

But I have thought about the following and realise that there where some real positives;

-Holding SD to 20 points in the first half and 48 overall in their building.

-It was great team defence, not just by GBJ, Draino, and Wesley. The other player who stood out on defence for me was the player who held his counterpart to 0 points with 6 turnovers in the game while being hounded relentlessly by the same player on the other side of the ball....Kevin Pangos. Anderson went 0/9 this game after scoring 14 against Portland. I think KP also was getting tired by the end of the night as Anderson is so quick!

-Taking on a SD team that are well coached and desperate to beat the Zags.

-Dealing with some questionable non-calls favouring the home team, this allowed the Toreros to be aggressive in defence. They cannot expect anything different playing in other WCC gyms.........

-Both Grier (opposing coach/system) and Sarbaugh (players) not intimidated against the Zags. Sarbaugh played like a man possessed, very Hart like.

The Zags must expect that each team they face from now on will look at the Arizona/Cal Poly/SD game tapes and plan their defence accordingly. It is up to the coaching staff to find ways of dealing with this pressure, some back door plays, for example. We need to get the ball in Karno's hands right by the basket and have him not bring the ball down (shades of big Rob at times).

jpn17
12-30-2014, 04:50 PM
I'm one who can be awfully critical at times, but I sure don't see must to criticize this game:

1) USD Slim Gym is our hall of horrors in which we manage to lose all too regularly b/c our former long term assistant and Coach's best friend coaches there. He know exactly how to get at the things we do, including mucking it up, making it look like a high school wrestling match. He's trying to save his job, he's not looking for style points.

I'm going to have to disagree with this point. Yes the games at USD are generally tough and yes Gonzaga has lost 2 WCC championship games there, however in the regular season Gonzaga is 14-1 against USD in the slim gym under Mark Few (who is 15-1 overall at USD). Gonzaga really doesn't lose down there often at all.

hondo
12-30-2014, 04:57 PM
The Zags might not lose down there often but I can remember very few games that were not hellish.

SunDevilGolfZag
12-30-2014, 04:59 PM
Last night was just another case -- common for us in this league -- of having the opponent ugly up the game to avoid a total blowout. Kind of like a varsity player going down to the gym to play rat ball with the intramural guys. As good as you are, it could get ugly.

sullyzag66
12-30-2014, 05:00 PM
Who wouldn't say what Gary did? Did he say anything about his play?
#yawn

DixieZag
12-30-2014, 05:08 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with this point. Yes the games at USD are generally tough and yes Gonzaga has lost 2 WCC championship games there, however in the regular season Gonzaga is 14-1 against USD in the slim gym under Mark Few (who is 15-1 overall at USD). Gonzaga really doesn't lose down there often at all.

I don't think that is disagreement so much as pointing out that my premise in that point was factually wrong - and I very much appreciate you doing so. I guess I took last years loss and somehow let myself believe we have lost their a few other times recently. Thank you.

I guess I am channeling games in which we thought we would win by 20 and eeked out? Because I know we have said for a long time it is one of our tougher road games.

Regardless, I think the fact that the game was never in doubt and that our defense was spectacular on that floor is a very positive point.

Thanks!

DixieZag
12-30-2014, 05:10 PM
The Zags might not lose down there often but I can remember very few games that were not hellish.

And the few that aren't are always at home where we seem to flow offensively a little better against the rough riding opponent. (Though not always).

Good point.

WallaWallaZag
12-31-2014, 03:57 AM
just watched the game...thanks robert perry whoever you are. yes, the zags went cold a little and pangos had a couple bad turnovers, but the refs really were doing their best to keep usd in the game, letting them play physical and whistling the zags for some very questionable offensive fouls including the flagrant on bell, non-existent pangos push-off, and the charge on wesley where sarbaugh didn't really have great position. there has been some discussion on end of game strategy on the board but gonzaga didn't look like they were simply milking the clock, they just missed some bunnies.

RenoZag
12-31-2014, 05:41 AM
Now for the last revenge game on Saturday. Time to take down the Pilots!!!!!!!!

Go 3-0 on this trip, and go back to the Kennel. Go Zags!

+1

zag67
12-31-2014, 07:46 AM
I agree with you wallawalla, in that I did not see them milking the clock. They looked like they were trying to run the offense, but the refs did allow a lot more contact. I also saw that shooters like a
Pangos and GB, had many shots dead on and right on the front of the rim.

Sarbaugh had a great game and showed he learned a lot when at GU. He was frustrating and yet fun to watch another Hart type player.

Sabonis is young and will keep learning to play through frustration and that is probably something the staff and father are talking to him about.

I would like to say that Dranginis and Wesley both are underrated for the efforts and accomplishments they perform on the court.

Lastly Karnowski, Wiltjer, Bell, Pangos, Wesley, Sabonis, Dranginis, Nunez,and Melson all deserve an attaboy from us. They have all had to learn to score less and buy into the team concept with so many other team scorers. I love watching them play defense and the assists are unbelievable. Like the two to Wiltjer for the 3s, or the behind the back feed to Dranginis by Karnowski. Plays like that are the reason that I enjoy college ball and no longer follow the pros (except I games where GU players are playing)

MickMick
12-31-2014, 01:50 PM
College hoops, in general, is getting tougher for me to watch with each passing season. It is just too physical. Too much contact going on. Too much aimless slapping at the ball with no consequence. It isn't all that fun to watch. The referees, even if they call the game evenly for both sides, have let things get progressively worse.

The last four minutes of every game is like watching the movie "The Purge". Throw all the rules out the window and let chaos reign. Doesn't matter which opponent or which conference the referees are from. Sometimes it plays out for your side. Sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, it always seems to play out the same. Someone is going to get abused.

Sure our players can and should adapt. It doesn't make the game any more enjoyable for me.

zaguarxj
12-31-2014, 02:47 PM
After watching the game again, I have to say that reborn is out of his mind regarding Sabonis. He is a high-motor stud with good hands, great footwork, nice touch and a incredible body for an 18 year old. There's a good reason the media pundits are so high on him. Few obviously thinks he's pretty good too, since he's always 1st off the bench. He's the best Frosh big the Zags have ever had and, no, I didn't forget EH (I'm counting Austin Daye as a wing). How can a Zags fan be sick of hearing praise for any player on the team? Like I've said about the Zags themselves, it's a huge compliment to be called "overrated." I'll take it.

DixieZag
12-31-2014, 03:08 PM
College hoops, in general, is getting tougher for me to watch with each passing season. It is just too physical. .

And to make it worse, they know it is problem and every year we hear that they are going call the games more tightly and allow less physicality. And then every year we see the problem get worse, especially at the rim and especially at the end of the game.

The only little bit of an effort I have seen is those early season games, and early in game, efforts to call hand-checking and contact on the outside, and even that effort melts away as the season goes on.

Sabonis got throttled in AZ in the last second. I'm sure we got favorable calls, too. But it is an example of end of game, "anything goes" and the players know it - so AZ had no qualms about knocking him to the floor and possibly giving up FTs. It just never happens.

jpn17
12-31-2014, 10:34 PM
I don't think that is disagreement so much as pointing out that my premise in that point was factually wrong - and I very much appreciate you doing so. I guess I took last years loss and somehow let myself believe we have lost their a few other times recently. Thank you.

I guess I am channeling games in which we thought we would win by 20 and eeked out? Because I know we have said for a long time it is one of our tougher road games.

Regardless, I think the fact that the game was never in doubt and that our defense was spectacular on that floor is a very positive point.

Thanks!

It's all good, I put together a simple spreadsheet last year about Gonzaga's record under Mark Few in conference home and away and it was very interesting to see how the numbers stacked up against my preconceptions. A lot were quite a ways off, let me tell you. I pretty much agree with everything else in your post. USD is almost always a tough game down there (and sometimes up here as well).

willandi
01-01-2015, 07:59 AM
I Such a smooth shot. I've seen him get beat on the dribble at times by fast guards


There aren't many bigs that won't get beat by a fast guard. I don't watch much NBA, but was watching a Lakers game because Sacre was in. The PG dribbled past him, but he stayed with the play and blocked the lay-up. Boozer got the rebound, threw it to the opposing teams SG who drained a 3. It was an end of quarter play, clock expired and Sacre stood with a stunned look of disbelief, then his shoulders slumped.
We didn't know how good we had it then, when he could hedge, take the smaller player and make the play. Hopefully he will be able to come again this off season and work with KW on that. It is all drive, footwork and intensity. It is why Mr Irrelevant is still in the show! KW CAN learn that. He has changed his game since leaving Kentucky, adding the inside game. If he can add some of Sacre's inside defensive intensity, he will go far.

amaronizag
01-01-2015, 08:17 AM
I for one am luke warm on the defense played by Sabonis. However, I understand that he's young, his footwork still needs improvement, and his D will vastly improve along with other aspects of his game, and his frustration will slowly diminish as he improves. Karno was exactly the same way in his Frosh year......the D wasn't all it could be, but showed flashes of great promise. Karno was also very frustrated, mostly with himself when he couldn't deliver at the high level he wanted to play at. Karno was also very frustrated on offense when he was wide open in the low post but the pass never came. He occasionally even resorted to standing wide open in the lane long enough to get a 3 second violation to show how long he was waiting and ignored. Lots of that came from the fact the David only passed inside 1/3 of the time compared to Pangos who passes inside 2/3 of the time, and part of it was that he still needed to prove his offensive capability to his fellow players, but it was real frustration and I see the same frustration for the same reasons in Sabonis. It will slowly diminish as his skills slowly get better. He shows great promise and I couldn't be happier that we have a Freshman that can play at this level. He really stood out against the lesser talented teams early in the year, but of course it wasn't as easy when we played the upper tier teams. Hang in there big fella, you're going to be a big star.

NumberCruncher
01-01-2015, 11:26 AM
I for one am luke warm on the defense played by Sabonis. However, I understand that he's young, his footwork still needs improvement, and his D will vastly improve along with other aspects of his game, and his frustration will slowly diminish as he improves. Karno was exactly the same way in his Frosh year......the D wasn't all it could be, but showed flashes of great promise. Karno was also very frustrated, mostly with himself when he couldn't deliver at the high level he wanted to play at. Karno was also very frustrated on offense when he was wide open in the low post but the pass never came. He occasionally even resorted to standing wide open in the lane long enough to get a 3 second violation to show how long he was waiting and ignored. Lots of that came from the fact the David only passed inside 1/3 of the time compared to Pangos who passes inside 2/3 of the time, and part of it was that he still needed to prove his offensive capability to his fellow players, but it was real frustration and I see the same frustration for the same reasons in Sabonis. It will slowly diminish as his skills slowly get better. He shows great promise and I couldn't be happier that we have a Freshman that can play at this level. He really stood out against the lesser talented teams early in the year, but of course it wasn't as easy when we played the upper tier teams. Hang in there big fella, you're going to be a big star.

During Karnowski's freshman year, he was assisted by David 12 times and assisted 7 times by Kevin.

Here's a breakdown of their assist numbers that season:

Kevin: 116 assists, 82 for 2 points and 34 for 3 points.

David: 119 assists, 87 for 2 points and 32 for 3 points.

Both players passed inside about 2/3 of the time.

Zagdawg
01-01-2015, 02:13 PM
Thanks for taking the time to research and bring the facts to the discussion NumberCruncher.

GrizZAG
01-01-2015, 08:11 PM
I'm going to ask why?, of the eight players who see most minutes on this Gonzaga Team, is Kyle Dranginis usually the least discussed? Unless he is being criticized ?, in which case, some fans are asking why he even plays? The truth is that OVERALL Kyle Dranginis is arguably the third best basketball player on this team. He can defend well, He can rebound well, he passes well, and when called upon to do so?, he can score, from both outside, and taking it to the hole. Last night in San Diego I saw him lose his man ONE TIME, and it cost a three. In 21 minutes he had four defensive rebounds, two assists, two blocks, a steal, and scored six points on 3 of 4 attempts. He never whines, always does his job, and frankly if he does not start or get MAJOR minutes his Senior year, this Gonzaga fan will be hugely disappointed.

KD will be a main player for us before he is done no doubt. He is progressing steadily from my view and is playing at a higher level every game it seems. He plays with passion and has a little Hart in him. I for one like his game a ton. Hope he learns some Wesley moves, I love that guy's game.