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gbnyba17
12-20-2014, 07:57 PM
Zags need to learn how to run one... thats it. Or was it just me?

Ill take a win though. GO ZAGS!

slam dunk
12-20-2014, 08:09 PM
No kidding...very ugly offensive play tonight

HenneZag
12-20-2014, 08:14 PM
Very ugly game. So many silly turnovers and telegraphed passes. We missed alot of open looks as well though, GB struggled to find the back of the net tonight. Cal Poly played aggressive, and knew how to attack us so I will give them credit. If we play this way against BYU we will lose in there barn!

ZagLawGrad
12-20-2014, 08:24 PM
Zags will lose to BYU if they play like tonite.

zagfan94
12-20-2014, 08:26 PM
Looked like they hadn't practiced much against a 1-3-1. That being said, from experience, it's a really hard defence to prepare for. It relies a lot more on length, quickness and aggressiveness than a 2-3. These things might not be possible to simulate in practice.

hondo
12-20-2014, 08:29 PM
To all those who thought the Zags would sweep league play, it's time to think again. Some nights you have some you don't.

Rangerzag
12-20-2014, 08:35 PM
This first game after finals is traditionally a let-down game for the Zags. A lackluster performance should not be a surprise. Too much over thinking at this point is counterproductive.

JPtheBeasta
12-20-2014, 11:18 PM
I think Cal Poly knew they couldn't compete down low, and knew we could beat a press, so they extended their 1-3-1 zone pretty far out to the perimeter and essentially had 3 defenders zoning the ball handler once he crossed half-court. We had a heck of a time reversing the ball to the other side without turning over the ball, and we couldn't throw it over the top to the near side post (usually Karnowski). It seems like if Wiltjer or Sabonis just sealed their guy on the weak side, all it would have taken was an earlier, crisp pass from Pangos to the other guard on top and another to the post. They had guards defending the post at times because their big would come up really high at the top of the key. It didn't help that we were so sloppy with the ball, but it looked like over and over our ball handler held the ball one tick to long and just needed to make a more decisive pass.

I have felt this year that this team is pretty good against 2-3 zone. I think we just sucked against the 1-3-1 tonight.

DixieZag
12-21-2014, 01:36 AM
This first game after finals is traditionally a let-down game for the Zags. A lackluster performance should not be a surprise. Too much over thinking at this point is counterproductive.

This.

It has also been a long time since the BIS wasn't an ugly game - probably same observation as above.

jazzdelmar
12-21-2014, 04:04 AM
Heretical to say, but too Karno-centric last night. He played well enough but GU's stubborness about getting him in and keeping him in the flow never allowed KW, DS or BW to get many decent looks. Indeed, they all played frustrated. The game plan to beat Zags is simply to pressure KP -- Bell and KD are just terrible ballhandlers -- and give the bigs all they want inside and match or better them w threes. Can't understand why Poly didn't just foul Karno every time. Inexplicably, Few put Karno in on OFFENSE at the end. Unless Mac is the next Jason Kidd and Jenks has a Lourdes like recovery, this is the way for a much better team than Poly to beat the Zags. Maybe not in the WCC but surely in the Round of, dare I say it?

Zagger
12-21-2014, 04:04 AM
To all those who thought the Zags would sweep league play, it's time to think again. Some nights you have some you don't.
Yeah, that's college ball - But, Zags won. I still think they will sweep league play .... Main reason = depth. Someone is going to step up (or more than one). I certainly want the Zags to sweep and my fridge is definitely stocked with koolaid - but, we have lots of 'Zags' and it won't be long until we have Eric and later, Perkins back. This won't be the last 'ugly' win IMHO. The effort by league teams to beat the Zags is going to make things both thrilling and chilling. I also count on this Zag bunch improving - especially Sabonis and Melson, Mt. K even more too. We shall see .....

Birddog
12-21-2014, 04:28 AM
Heretical to say, but too Karno-centric last night. He played well enough but GU's stubborness about getting him in and keeping him in the flow never allowed KW, DS or BW to get many decent looks. Indeed, they all played frustrated. The game plan to beat Zags is simply to pressure KP -- Bell and KD are just terrible ballhandlers -- and give the bigs all they want inside and match or better them w threes. Can't understand why Poly didn't just foul Karno every time. Inexplicably, Few put Karno in on OFFENSE at the end. Unless Mac is the next Jason Kidd and Jenks has a Lourdes like recovery, this is the way for a much better team than Poly to beat the Zags. Maybe not in the WCC but surely in the Round of, dare I say it?

Jazz, you ought to wait until the sun comes up before you post. At least have a 2nd cup of coffee.

bartruff1
12-21-2014, 05:10 AM
Worry....worry.... worry... I am always mindful of what Few has said to the effect that in a season, you play five games terrible, five games great and more than 20 as you should....

with about half the team being ready to play, they still won....

I suspect they will beat the pants off BYU and their zone...

gueastcoast
12-21-2014, 05:23 AM
Meh. May have been the zone defense, may have been the relentless pressure, may have been a post-finals letdown...dunno. The only thing that will continue to eat at me about this game was us continually being outhustled for rebounds and losing nearly every 50/50 loose ball. I thought this team had put that part of the Zag repertoire on a very high shelf, not to be seen this season. That's the stuff that kills you in March.

cjm720
12-21-2014, 06:26 AM
Zags will lose to BYU if they play like tonite.

BYU is incapable of defense like Cal Poly...more than solid team.

JPtheBeasta
12-21-2014, 07:36 AM
BYU is incapable of defense like Cal Poly...more than solid team.

An offensively challenged team like Cal Poly probably spends a lot of time on defense. It was sneaky in the sense that our guys didn't feel pressured , played casually, then got ambushed. I just don't know how this kept happening over and over again. The players didn't adjust, and I wonder if they were playing down to the competition a bit because they felt they could turn it on when they wanted to.

The good news is a little video session and a little practice and they should be able to iron this out, in my opinion.

LongIslandZagFan
12-21-2014, 07:42 AM
Not going to read much into it. They got the W, it was post finals, in Seattle, and they were a bit flat and not themselves. Be glad we aren't MSU today.

WBM
12-21-2014, 07:43 AM
An offensively challenged team like Cal Poly probably spends a lot of time on defense. It was sneaky in the sense that our guys didn't feel pressured , played casually, then got ambushed. I just don't know how this kept happening over and over again. The players didn't adjust, and I wonder if they were playing down to the competition a bit because they felt they could turn it on when they wanted to.

The good news is a little video session and a little practice and they should be able to iron this out, in my opinion.

Well, our new video coordinator may just have an eye for finding the film necessary to teach the hustle plays!

I agree though, it seemed like the team as a while didn't adjust accordingly over the 40 minutes. A few played really showed a refusal to lose, however.

TravelinZag
12-21-2014, 07:56 AM
BYU is incapable of defense like Cal Poly...more than solid team.

Plus, note that Tyler Haws is a quick healer as well as a great player: 24 points on 8/15 shooting, 3/7 from 3-pt range, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 foul. Sounds awfully close to complete recovery to me.

LongIslandZagFan
12-21-2014, 09:25 AM
Plus, note that Tyler Haws is a quick healer as well as a great player: 24 points on 8/15 shooting, 3/7 from 3-pt range, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 foul. Sounds awfully close to complete recovery to me.

Good, I'd rather they be full strength when they play the Zags.

CDC84
12-21-2014, 10:45 AM
Just your typical post finals week brain drain game. This is why you schedule Cal Poly instead of an upper tier ACC team. I am glad the schedulers figured this out several years ago.

Stache
12-21-2014, 10:54 AM
It could have been Portland State at the MAC a few years ago right after finals. Looked really good last night by comparison.

jim77
12-21-2014, 11:33 AM
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

The Zags were not the better defenders last night...they got our hustled...or should I say the other team was flat quicker than them. This had nothing to do with finals or any such nonsense...finals don't make you slower. The Cal Poly players came too play...shines a bit more light on the Don's loss, doesn't it? The AZ team did the same thing to beat us in OT...they pressured the point of attack at the end....the mustangs did it all game...and nearly pulled it off. The difference in this game is that we had a dominant guy in the middle and clutch 3-point shooters....and we didn't get a heck of a lot of good looks at the 3.

The best way to stop our 3 attempts is to extend the defense out past the 3 line...the Mustangs also doubled or Tripled the ball and yet we could not make them pay. By the time the ball handler thought about doing anything it was too late to pass out or dribble out. You have to pass out of it BRFORE they d closes in. When you get in with a defense like Cal poly you have to shorten the passing lanes way down. (close the spacing down) We did do that a bit better in the second half and it resulted in KP getting open looks. Wiltjer was MIA as well as the other guard at times.....you can't stand 30 feet away with you're hands up when the ball handler has 3 guys on him. I'll say this again..speed bothers us more than size does. When the Zags get good looks they are deadly....and the other good teams know it. The Zags can work it out in practice to a point....but its hard to replicate that kind of hustle in practice. Imagine what a MUCH longer KY does in a game like that? UCLA Part 2...that's what.

The main reason for our tourney flops is what happen last night. Most WCC teams can't play like CAL POLY can on defense. ...and if you can't adjust in a hurry..you go home. If I were FEW....my next "secret scrimmage" wouldn't be at the beginning of the year it would be between the last game and the tourney...and the CAL-POLY Mustangs would get an all expenses paid invite. Much respect to them and their coach. MR. Nawdma (sp) learns to shoot a 3...he's gonna be in the NBA...that guy could get to the rim anytime he wanted GREAT HEART that kid has. Their whole team played HARD. Our guys showed heart to pull it out against a VERY tough team.

BTB
12-21-2014, 12:05 PM
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

The Zags were not the better defenders last night...they got our hustled...or should I say the other team was flat quicker than them. This had nothing to do with finals or any such nonsense...finals don't make you slower. The Cal Poly players came too play...shines a bit more light on the Don's loss, doesn't it? The AZ team did the same thing to beat us in OT...they pressured the point of attack at the end....the mustangs did it all game...and nearly pulled it off. The difference in this game is that we had a dominant guy in the middle and clutch 3-point shooters....and we didn't get a heck of a lot of good looks at the 3.

The best way to stop our 3 attempts is to extend the defense out past the 3 line...the Mustangs also doubled or Tripled the ball and yet we could not make them pay. By the time the ball handler thought about doing anything it was too late to pass out or dribble out. You have to pass out of it BRFORE they d closes in. When you get in with a defense like Cal poly you have to shorten the passing lanes way down. (close the spacing down) We did do that a bit better in the second half and it resulted in KP getting open looks. Wiltjer was MIA as well as the other guard at times.....you can't stand 30 feet away with you're hands up when the ball handler has 3 guys on him. I'll say this again..speed bothers us more than size does. When the Zags get good looks they are deadly....and the other good teams know it. The Zags can work it out in practice to a point....but its hard to replicate that kind of hustle in practice. Imagine what a MUCH longer KY does in a game like that? UCLA Part 2...that's what.

The main reason for our tourney flops is what happen last night. Most WCC teams can't play like CAL POLY can on defense. ...and if you can't adjust in a hurry..you go home. If I were FEW....my next "secret scrimmage" wouldn't be at the beginning of the year it would be between the last game and the tourney...and the CAL-POLY Mustangs would get an all expenses paid invite. Much respect to them and their coach. MR. Nawdma (sp) learns to shoot a 3...he's gonna be in the NBA...that guy could get to the rim anytime he wanted GREAT HEART that kid has. Their whole team played HARD. Our guys showed heart to pull it out against a VERY tough team.

This is a very good analysis of what happened.

sage
12-21-2014, 12:25 PM
Looked to me like better/faster passing would have run them to death. By the second half, they wouldn't have had any legs left to keep it up.

maynard g krebs
12-21-2014, 03:07 PM
Bell and KD are just terrible ballhandlers

Bell is the only guy playing over 20 minutes who averages less than a TO per game (0.75) and his assist/TO ratio is exactly 3/1, which is rare for a sg and really good for anybody. Really strange that anyone would call him a "terrible" ballhandler. I see quite the opposite, so I went to the data to see if it verified my opinion. It seems to.

SunDevilGolfZag
12-21-2014, 04:00 PM
Heretical to say, but too Karno-centric last night. He played well enough but GU's stubborness about getting him in and keeping him in the flow never allowed KW, DS or BW to get many decent looks. Indeed, they all played frustrated. The game plan to beat Zags is simply to pressure KP -- Bell and KD are just terrible ballhandlers -- and give the bigs all they want inside and match or better them w threes. Can't understand why Poly didn't just foul Karno every time. Inexplicably, Few put Karno in on OFFENSE at the end. Unless Mac is the next Jason Kidd and Jenks has a Lourdes like recovery, this is the way for a much better team than Poly to beat the Zags. Maybe not in the WCC but surely in the Round of, dare I say it?
As per usual, imo, your finger is pretty much directly on the pulse. The Zag's Achilles is that they have only one elite ball handler with Perkins out. He is our X-factor to being a Final Four type team, as opposed to being in the top 15 heap. As we saw last night, our other guards--as good as they are in many ways--can't be relied on down the stretch in a high level game to take care of the ball. They may make some type of great play, but ball care in the face of long-arm quickness/pressure when the game is truly on the line--especially in a Sweet 16/Elite 8 game-- is highly suspect. Maybe McClellan fills the bill; we'll see. If Perkins comes back by early February, I have faith that he is an answer. Having both of them fill that bill could be the difference maker. Otherwise, as much talent as this team has, we could be hit and miss again come tourney time against top 20 types. I do still believe that with good play and a little luck, we can see the FF this year

DixieZag
12-21-2014, 04:49 PM
I must confess, I am new to this "Bell is not a good ball handler" meme that people speak of.

It was my understanding that our 4 year starter was one of the absolute best at protecting the ball and making good decisions.

I must have missed a meeting.

Bogozags
12-21-2014, 05:23 PM
Jazz,

Not sure your statement is completely accurate as only PK and KP had decent games with one TO between them. The other three starters were just out of sync for almost the entire game. KD did have 4 TO's but his play yesterday wasn't indicative of how he has played the previous two years. KD, KW and BW are all in their senior year and have a ton of experience but last night they just didn't have it. Maybe their Bio-Rhythms were all off, because they played well below their capabilities. It would be interesting to see those three charted.

SunDevilGolfZag
12-21-2014, 06:21 PM
A more elite level of ball handling is easy to identify. There is no doubt we will need it during tourney time and maybe in the uglied up league games. Someone in addition to Pangos. Has to be Perkins or McClellan