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zag buddy
12-13-2014, 09:06 PM
I have seen the Zags play since 89 and it seems to me that when we have a lead at the end of the game about 4 minutes or less, we always play the same way- slow it down and try to run out the clock. it seems that coach Few insists that's the way he wants the players to play and they have never been that good at it. That's 14 teams, approx 420 games. It seems like we control the ball for 25 seconds and then more often than not take a difficult shot and with the opponents aggressiveness they run down the court shoot and do it again taking very little time off the clock. It seems it really throws the players off to switch their play at the end of the game.If anyone has stats on our end game deficits It would be interesting to see. Why not continue to do what has worked the whole game and keep playing hard. Any thoughts out there?

cscz28
12-13-2014, 09:08 PM
+1

TacomaZAG
12-13-2014, 09:19 PM
Excellent point, and if not for the 2nd chance bucket from Wesley and the prayer 3 at the buzzer from KP, the result could have been much different. I just checked ESPN and those were the only FG's we made in the last 9+ minutes. I know UCLA was fouling, but come on................

It is so obvious when Coach takes the air out of the ball, we just stop moving and stop pressing the issue. Like it has been said earlier, this has been going on for 14 years and I don't think it is ever going to stop.

We made the FT's down the stretch so I guess tonight it's genius.

Go ZAGS

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:22 PM
Dick Vitale says we're a legit FF contender and you post this crap? What an awful post, flat out awful. Boo you!!!
I have seen the Zags play since 89 and it seems to me that when we have a lead at the end of the game about 4 minutes or less, we always play the same way- slow it down and try to run out the clock. it seems that coach Few insists that's the way he wants the players to play and they have never been that good at it. That's 14 teams. It seems it really throws the players off to switch their play at the end of the game.If anyone has stats on our end game deficits It would be interesting to see. Why not continue to do what has worked the whole game and keep playing hard. Any thoughts out there?

seacatfan
12-13-2014, 09:23 PM
Agree. That only works if you have at at least one or a couple players who are good at creating their own offense with a few seconds left on the shot clock.

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:23 PM
+1

-1million

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:25 PM
You miserable people are pathetic. This is quite possibly our best team EVER, we're OT at the #3 teams place from being undefeated and you miserable sacks ##### about running out the clock in a game that was literally never in doubt? You guys disgust me!
Excellent point, and if not for the 2nd chance bucket from Wesley and the prayer 3 at the buzzer from KP, the result could have been much different. I just checked ESPN and those were the only FG's we made in the last 9+ minutes. I know UCLA was fouling, but come on................

It is so obvious when Coach takes the air out of the ball, we just stop moving and stop pressing the issue. Like it has been said earlier, this has been going on for 14 years and I don't think it is ever going to stop.

We made the FT's down the stretch so I guess tonight it's genius.

Go ZAGS

maynard g krebs
12-13-2014, 09:25 PM
Agree. It's frustrating to watch when done too early. Started w/ over 6 min left; if you're up a dozen with 3 and a half left, fine. But of course what do I know, or most of the rest of us for that matter.

Zagricultural
12-13-2014, 09:25 PM
Definitely one of my pet-peeves too. Also the ridiculous "dribble out the whole clock, and then try something stupid to end the half".

On the bright side, I love that this is the biggest negative we can find right now. Go Zags!

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:27 PM
We just went wire to wire on UCLA and less than five minutes this thread pops up. Why is their even a need to be negative? SMH at some of you.
Definitely one of my pet-peeves too. Also the ridiculous "dribble out the whole clock, and then try something stupid to end the half".

On the bright side, I love that this is the biggest negative we can find right now. Go Zags!

ZagLawGrad
12-13-2014, 09:29 PM
Gotta keep the pedal to the floor for 40 minutes. It might bite you sometime if you don't.

zag buddy
12-13-2014, 09:29 PM
Spy, I love this team and was looking for intelligent feedback not emotionalism

CDC84
12-13-2014, 09:32 PM
Dick Vitale says we're a legit FF contender and you post this crap? What an awful post, flat out awful. Boo you!!!

I don't think it's crap at all. It's been an issue with the program for a number of years. I understand not hucking up poor shots 10 seconds into the shot clock and such, but this team needs to run better offense towards the end of games.

This team has talent and will win a ton of games. But the key is get better, and to not allow a situation like what happened at Arizona last week to come back and bite the team again. Especially in March.

Seacatfan is right. Other than maybe Wesley, there are not many players on this Gonzaga team who can beat people off the bounce with the shot clock expiring. I think the team is better off running smart offense. Keep going for the jugular....but play smart at the same time.

JPtheBeasta
12-13-2014, 09:34 PM
If players were jacking up shots 10 seconds into the shot clock people would be complaining about that. The standard thing is to take time off the clock at the end of the game when you have the lead. It's hard to fault that. It also is natural for a team that is behind to play tougher defense at the end of the game. It's not a surprise during desperation time for the game to uglied up a bit.

That's why they practice free throws.

I have to admit, though, that when UCLA was pressing I was hoping for one designed alley-oop/hail-mary play to the basket. But that wasn't the armchair coach in me- it was the vindictive fan who remembers 2006.

Reborn
12-13-2014, 09:34 PM
Spy, I love this team and was looking for intelligent feedback not emotionalism

There are other threads. Or start one. If you don't like negativity don't write on a thread that you should know is going to be negative by the title.

billyberu
12-13-2014, 09:34 PM
pfft...at no point in this game could UCLA stop us.

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:35 PM
Spy, I love this team and was looking for intelligent feedback not emotionalism
I wrote that completely calm and devoid of emotion.

ZagLawGrad
12-13-2014, 09:36 PM
pfft...at no point in this game could UCLA stop us.

True, bb, but that was not a very good UCLA team. Good performance from the Zags, and a W.

Zagricultural
12-13-2014, 09:36 PM
I don't think it's crap at all. It's been an issue with the program for a number of years. I understand not hucking up poor shots 10 seconds into the shot clock and such, but this team needs to run better offense towards the end of games.

This team has talent and will win a ton of games. But the key is get better, and to not allow a situation like what happened at Arizona last week to come back and bite the team again. Especially in March.

Seacatfan is right. Other than maybe Wesley, there are not many players on this Gonzaga team who can beat people off the bounce with the shot clock expiring. I think the team is better off running smart offense. Keep going for the jugular....but play smart at the same time.

+1

bartruff1
12-13-2014, 09:38 PM
pfft...at no point in this game could UCLA stop us.

I didn't relax till Kevin put the knife in with that three.....

gonzagafan62
12-13-2014, 09:39 PM
I have no problem with the offense at the end of games. I actually love it. We got guys that can handle the ball on the court in those situations. No need to keep playing high paced when you have a good backcourt and good ball handlers. No need fr stupid shots or turnovers. In years past 04-11 yeah that offense isn't great.. But these last four ears I think it's been perfect. We have really been eatin at the clock. We have great free throw shooters too. Not many teams can come back on us at all

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:39 PM
I don't think it's crap at all. It's been an issue with the program for a number of years. I understand not hucking up poor shots 10 seconds into the shot clock and such, but this team needs to run better offense towards the end of games.

This team has talent and will win a ton of games. But the key is get better, and to not allow a situation like what happened at Arizona last week to come back and bite the team again. Especially in March.

Seacatfan is right. Other than maybe Wesley, there are not many players on this Gonzaga team who can beat people off the bounce with the shot clock expiring. I think the team is better off running smart offense. Keep going for the jugular....but play smart at the same time.

I don't care what you think, it's my opinion, just like yours is yours. I neither seek nor desire your validation. I'm so sick and tired of the constant nit picking of this team by overly negative fans. Right after the hearbreaking loss to Zona someone starts a thread about the loss being on Few, and then we go down to Pauley and beat them that the game was never even in contention and this stupid thread pops up. The level of entitlement and how spoiled some act here is nauseating.

MDABE80
12-13-2014, 09:39 PM
I think it starts with the coach. Buddy's correct, we don't keep pressure on....it may be a problem in some games. BUT Few's just not a killer. We win graciously and go home. It's the temperment of Few's teams. I like to see a comfortable margin but have those kids on the court be able to turn it up if needed.

zag67
12-13-2014, 09:40 PM
And I will ask you if during those last 6 minutes, we shoot with 20 seconds on the clock and miss multiple times and Alford makes multiple threes, what then? I am not saying to run it down to 5 seconds, but clock management is important against top teams that know how to defend. I do believe that you are wrong in your comments.

Few might. Not. Be a killer, but he is a winner and shows it. I do not see any of you coaching a top ten team and winning in areas that are just like ours.

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-13-2014, 09:40 PM
I think every game is different with respect to clock and game management. Can you be more specific on what you are looking for with "stats on end of game deficits"? Just seems a bit vague. Actually I think Dickie V. did a nice job articulating the fact Gonzaga did a good job fending off any potential runs by UCLA down the stretch. UCLA cut the lead to 8 before the Pangos big three pointer just before the under 4 minute TV time out. Correct me if I am wrong but that was as close they got. Gonzaga scored 13 points after the last TV time out to ice it. I think the game was coached well tonight at the end. JMHO

PS: and trust me no one can be a bigger Few critic than me in the past even though you might not hear it. I really like what I have seen from Mark Few this year.

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:41 PM
pfft...at no point in this game could UCLA stop us.

The game was never in doubt, never, yet spoiled fans want to nitpick everything. UNC and Michigan are trainwrecks right now, those fans have a legit reason to complain, but some of ours are such Debbie Downers.

maynard g krebs
12-13-2014, 09:41 PM
There are other threads. Or start one. If you don't like negativity don't write on a thread that you should know is going to be negative by the title.

Um, zag buddy did start the thread.

CDC84
12-13-2014, 09:42 PM
Spy you need to cool out.

bartruff1
12-13-2014, 09:43 PM
I don't care what you think, it's my opinion, just like yours is yours. I neither seek nor desire your validation. I'm so sick and tired of the constant nit picking of this team by overly negative fans. Right after the hearbreaking loss to Zona someone starts a thread about the loss being on Few, and then we go down to Pauley and beat them that the game was never even in contention and this stupid thread pops up. The level of entitlement and how spoiled some act here is nauseating.

I couldn't agree more...it is annoying.... I think Few knows what he is doing...at least he has won more than 400 games...than we have....

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:43 PM
I have no problem with the offense at the end of games. I actually love it. We got guys that can handle the ball on the court in those situations. No need to keep playing high paced when you have a good backcourt and good ball handlers. No need fr stupid shots or turnovers. In years past 04-11 yeah that offense isn't great.. But these last four ears I think it's been perfect. We have really been eatin at the clock. We have great free throw shooters too. Not many teams can come back on us at all

Excellent post. The end of the game demoralized the Bruins and Vitale even mentioned that Alford was smiling on the outside but fuming on the inside. I really wish more would enjoy how special this team is.

gonzagafan62
12-13-2014, 09:46 PM
I can't remember the last time we lost with poor clock management. I think Bc of the name on the jersey of our opponents people start questioning a winning basketball team LOL. I never have lost confident in a tight game with pangos and bell as our free throw shooters down the stretch. A little more nervous with Wesley but he canned a lot tonight. People need to settle down. There was little doubt at all tonight. This team answered every bell tonight. And they have since pangos and bell came to us.

ZagLawGrad
12-13-2014, 09:48 PM
.... I never have lost confident in a tight game with pangos and bell as our free throw shooters down the stretch. A little more nervous with Wesley but he canned a lot tonight. People need to settle down. There was little doubt at all tonight. This team answered every bell tonight. And try have since pangos and bell came to us.

Agree game was not in danger. UCLA was not a very good team. But did you forget that AZ game at the end?

JPtheBeasta
12-13-2014, 09:49 PM
I think is more about teaching execution and composure. It's a different style, but shouldn't be taken as playing not to win. What do most people say as a compliment about Gonzaga teams? That they play smartly. The reason we play the way we do at the end of games is the same one that had us up by double digits at the end of the game.

The other factor is that Bell and Pangos aren't as rangy/lengthy/athletic as a lot of the defenders they go against. They are going to have a hard time creating a shot against inspired defense against the upper echelon teams. Wesley or Wiltjer are our best bets in those situations. But Pangos and Bell are the leaders. It's somewhat of a quandary.

But then again, Pangos hit the dagger on that step-back three...

seacatfan
12-13-2014, 09:49 PM
Zags played great and controlled the game just about the whole way through. Obviously if you have a lead late in a game you don't want to jack shots at the beginning of the shot clock. But if you wait til around 7 seconds left with the ball at the top of the key, you're running the risk of either getting a poor shot or no shot at all. Somewhere in between lies a happy medium. Unless you have a player along the lines of Napier from UConn last year who can break down a D and get a good scoring opportunity in pretty much any situation.

gonzagafan62
12-13-2014, 09:49 PM
Agree game was not in danger. UCLA was not a very good team. But did you forget that AZ game at the end?

Wiltjer hits that shot and you think differently. We had the cats where we wanted them... Had a foul that wasn't called on Sabonis. I think you should rewatch the game footage. I'll take my chances with it everytime... Especially on the road.

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 09:50 PM
Agree game was not in danger. UCLA was not a very good team. But did you forget that AZ game at the end?

You mean, undefeated #3 Arizona that we took into overtime? That Arizona? We didn't run out the clock in that game at all, that game, unlike this one was nip and tuck.

zag buddy
12-13-2014, 09:51 PM
Few is the coach and I'm grateful and thankfully that he is and that he stays. I was thinking that we might move the ball around semi drive towards the basket and kick it out. I f an easy shot appears (like to the rim) take it, if not we can always have a shooter shoot. To stand out there with one player dribbling does not seem to be the best strategy to me.

ZagLawGrad
12-13-2014, 09:52 PM
You mean, undefeated #3 Arizona that we took into overtime? That Arizona? We didn't run out the clock in that game at all, that game, unlike this one was nip and tuck.

Yes, AZ. You know, the team we have a chance of seeing in the Elite 8. Zags gave up the lead at the end of that game.

JPtheBeasta
12-13-2014, 09:54 PM
Wiltjer hits that shot and you think differently. We had the cats where we wanted them... Had a foul that wasn't called on Sabonis. I think you should rewatch the game footage. I'll take my chances with it everytime... Especially on the road.

Wesley also was called for an offensive foul that was 50/50. Pangos got fouled on the body by the man trailing him on a drive toward the end. I have seen the travel on Sabonis called both ways. We get any one of those we probably win that game.

gonzagafan62
12-13-2014, 09:55 PM
Yes, AZ. You know, the team we have a chance of seeing in the Elite 8. Zags gave up the lead at the end of that game.

I'll just say one more thing. If we have to play them again in he tournament ... Let's just say I'm kinda glad we lost. Hard to beat a really good team twice.

Mantua
12-13-2014, 09:55 PM
Gotta keep the pedal to the floor for 40 minutes. It might bite you sometime if you don't.

I agree.

dan71w
12-13-2014, 09:56 PM
is see nothing wrong with it, it is called time management, and score protection. to complain about it just because it sometimes looks sloppy, and becomes slightly boring, is just nitpicking.

ZagLawGrad
12-13-2014, 09:56 PM
I'll just say one more thing. If we have to play them again in he tournament ... Let's just say I'm kinda glad we lost. Hard to beat a really good team twice.

:agreed:

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-13-2014, 09:57 PM
I think it starts with the coach. Buddy's correct, we don't keep pressure on....it may be a problem in some games. BUT Few's just not a killer. We win graciously and go home. It's the temperment of Few's teams. I like to see a comfortable margin but have those kids on the court be able to turn it up if needed.

There is quite a bit of truth to what you are saying. As a matter of fact Few not having perceived killer instinct has bothered me a lot over the years. His quotes about the NCAA Tournament ect ect...are what make me cringe. I am looking forward to adding Eric and getting Jenks back. We are on the marathon of our Zag lives. This could be the most special season in Zag history. I think coach Few can get us to the finished line. His coaching this year has been really good.

TacomaZAG
12-13-2014, 10:00 PM
Yes, AZ. You know, the team we have a chance of seeing in the Elite 8. Zags gave up the lead at the end of that game.

2 FG's in the last 9+ minutes of each game (Zona and UCLA). Both on the road. One team is E8 or FF quality and the other isn't. We were in control of both games for the first 35 minutes.

The identical strategy isn't going to work against both teams. The ZAGS are flat out better than UCLA, not so against Zona.

Go ZAGS

spike_jr
12-13-2014, 10:00 PM
I don't understand why you quit running your offense - you know the same offense that got the lead. Nobody said that we should be shooting 10 seconds into the shot clock. But keep being aggressive. Run your offense. If you get an easy shot, take it. Would you take an uncontested layin with 15 seconds left on the shot clock due to the other team overplaying on defense or would you rather have a contested, off-balance, 21 ft shot with the shot clock expiring and little to no chance to go in? I take the points because the other team has to make 3s to even cut into your lead.

Also, once you take your foot off of the gas, its really hard to turn it back on if need be.

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 10:11 PM
Yes, AZ. You know, the team we have a chance of seeing in the Elite 8. Zags gave up the lead at the end of that game.

Or Arizona took it from us and had the will to win at home; they are the undefeated #3 team in the nation after all. Depends on your perspective, I suppose.

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 10:13 PM
I don't understand why you quit running your offense - you know the same offense that got the lead. Nobody said that we should be shooting 10 seconds into the shot clock. But keep being aggressive. Run your offense. If you get an easy shot, take it. Would you take an uncontested layin with 15 seconds left on the shot clock due to the other team overplaying on defense or would you rather have a contested, off-balance, 21 ft shot with the shot clock expiring and little to no chance to go in? I take the points because the other team has to make 3s to even cut into your lead.

Also, once you take your foot off of the gas, its really hard to turn it back on if need be.

But that's the point; there was no "need be". It was clock management and demoralized the Bruins. We didn't do that against Zona because the game was nip and tuck.

Zags11
12-13-2014, 11:27 PM
So much butt hurt in here.
:lmao:

This thread is like a car crash to me.

:mecry:

caduceus
12-13-2014, 11:51 PM
http://i.imgur.com/gva4ne1.gif



Serously, so much negativity on the board this season.

We're 9-1.
Just beat 2 out of 3 Pac-12 teams handily, and took the third (and #3 ranked team in the nation) to OT on their court.
#2 offensive efficiency in the nation.
#3 RPI in the nation.
#8 overall on KenPom (and not one of the teams ahead of us is ranked within 60 places in SOS).

I think the sky is falling.

ZagsGoZags
12-14-2014, 12:10 AM
Two posts have mentioned that Few is coaching great this year. I agree.
But I think his coaching has always been superlative.
I think he would have always been this successful, though, if he had the levels of talent before as we had two years ago and this year.
What has greatly turned the corner on our team is the decision he made 4-5 years ago to focus way more on recruiting. It is really paid off, IMHO, and success this year means more elite players will consider coming to the little cow town that has tiny minority communities, few night bright lights, and weather worse than the sun belt by the standards of most people. I think he did well in the early 2000's by taking good players and making great teams from that. Now he is getting great players and making great teams from that.

DixieZag
12-14-2014, 12:28 AM
I've always thought it was totally possible to love the team, praise its strengths and successes with pride and at the same time, note weaknesses that could be improved. I'm sure most people here do.

This is a little scary:


Excellent point, and if not for the 2nd chance bucket from Wesley and the prayer 3 at the buzzer from KP, the result could have been much different. I just checked ESPN and those were the only FG's we made in the last 9+ minutes. I know UCLA was fouling, but come on................

Wichita State
Memphis
Arizona

Among others not coming to me off the top of my head. It seems it usually happens in games in which we're the underdog. Had Kevin not hit that 3 pt shot with one second left on the shot clock, we'd have had a UCLA team supremely confident from a wall-like stop going to our end with the chance to take it to 5.

And, I love this team, think Few is the perfect coach for us, brings so much upside and strengths to his teams. All wrapped up in the same package.

MickMick
12-14-2014, 01:23 AM
UCLA may be young, but they have McDonald's All Americans that are big, strong, quick, and athletic. Like any opponent with excellent athleticism, GU must make up for it with skill and composure. I saw multiple turnovers in the second half, not because GU slowed the game down, but because they either: 1) rushed the ball up court in the transition game (ie. Dranginis turns it over on the dribble) or 2) couldn't deal with executing the second pass after inbounding the ball (ie. Pangos gets trapped).

In my mind, they collectively needed to take a deep breath and play under control and I believe that is exactly what the coach instructed them to do. Those slap happy athletes for UCLA were digging at the ball and taking it away. I shudder when I see Karnowski put the ball on the floor in the block with four minutes left. The opponents are desperate and start taking chances, digging at the ball. Odds are that the big guy is going to turn it over as he isn't skilled or athletic enough to dribble the ball in such circumstances.

UCLA, like Arizona last week, upped the defensive intensity level in the last 6 minutes. It wasn't about Few's strategy. It was about excellent, desperate athletes risking fouls to dig at the ball and finding success. This is not a time to play fast or put the ball on the floor. It is a time to use your head, make deliberate passes, and play under control. It is about players making them selves available, so that the ball handler always has an "out". It is about avoiding the side or back lines so that it can't be used as an extra defender. The game fundamentally changes when the opponent feels it slipping away so you can't just keep playing the same type of game.

convertedZagfan
12-14-2014, 01:56 AM
UCLA may be young, but they have McDonald's All Americans that are big, strong, quick, and athletic. Like any opponent with excellent athleticism, GU must make up for it with skill and composure. I saw multiple turnovers in the second half, not because GU slowed the game down, but because they either: 1) rushed the ball up court in the transition game (ie. Dranginis turns it over on the dribble) or 2) couldn't deal with executing the second pass after inbounding the ball (ie. Pangos gets trapped).

In my mind, they collectively needed to take a deep breath and play under control and I believe that is exactly what the coach instructed them to do. Those slap happy athletes for UCLA were digging at the ball and taking it away. I shudder when I see Karnowski put the ball on the floor in the block with four minutes left. The opponents are desperate and start taking chances, digging at the ball. Odds are that the big guy is going to turn it over as he isn't skilled or athletic enough to dribble the ball in such circumstances.

UCLA, like Arizona last week, upped the defensive intensity level in the last 6 minutes. It wasn't about Few's strategy. It was about excellent, desperate athletes risking fouls to dig at the ball and finding success. This is not a time to play fast or put the ball on the floor. It is a time to use your head, make deliberate passes, and play under control. It is about players making them selves available, so that the ball handler always has an "out". It is about avoiding the side or back lines so that it can't be used as an extra defender. The game fundamentally changes when the opponent feels it slipping away so you can't just keep playing the same type of game.

Perfect post and well explained. I'd like to add the unconscious end-of-game shooting by Alford is also a by-product of a desperate team. The guy looks like Stephen Curry for the last six minutes but if he takes those shots while the game is still competitive, his father yanks him and chews his ass. He is a good shooter, made the shots, but they weren't good shots. If he klangs two or three of those, this entire post is moot.

WallaWallaZag
12-14-2014, 06:40 AM
I think it starts with the coach. Buddy's correct, we don't keep pressure on....it may be a problem in some games. BUT Few's just not a killer. We win graciously and go home. It's the temperment of Few's teams. I like to see a comfortable margin but have those kids on the court be able to turn it up if needed.

few may or may not be a killer, but he is all about winning...and if you don't agree with that you might as well follow another team. whatever strategy few takes on the basketball court has nothing to do with whether or not he has a killer instinct, it is about what he believes gives his team the best chance of winning.

gonzagafan62
12-14-2014, 06:44 AM
I've always thought it was totally possible to love the team, praise its strengths and successes with pride and at the same time, note weaknesses that could be improved. I'm sure most people here do.

This is a little scary:


Wichita State
Memphis
Arizona

Among others not coming to me off the top of my head. It seems it usually happens in games in which we're the underdog. Had Kevin not hit that 3 pt shot with one second left on the shot clock, we'd have had a UCLA team supremely confident from a wall-like stop going to our end with the chance to take it to 5.

And, I love this team, think Few is the perfect coach for us, brings so much upside and strengths to his teams. All wrapped up in the same package.

Dixie.... Dot even pull thy Wichita state garbage on us. You know bell was hurt. Arizona doesn't count. That game was closer and again, wiltjer makes that sho you think differently .... Memphis I have to agree though. I am still uber pissed at that game.... Ugh

Reborn
12-14-2014, 06:44 AM
I watched the game over. There was not a problem at all in the last 5 min of the game. We did make shots, and shot lots of foul shots. We did what any team with a ten point lead wants to do in the last five min, imo. And that is to protect your lead, run the clock down, and shoot foul shots. I have no criticisms this game at all. Great ending. Zags played well down the stretch, and coach did a fantastic job of subbing.

Go Zags!!!

WallaWallaZag
12-14-2014, 07:08 AM
I've always thought it was totally possible to love the team, praise its strengths and successes with pride and at the same time, note weaknesses that could be improved. I'm sure most people here do.

Wichita State
Memphis
Arizona

Among others not coming to me off the top of my head. It seems it usually happens in games in which we're the underdog. Had Kevin not hit that 3 pt shot with one second left on the shot clock, we'd have had a UCLA team supremely confident from a wall-like stop going to our end with the chance to take it to 5.

you're assuming that few's end of game strategy is a weakness...and cherry-picking 3 games that were painful losses does nothing to prove the matter. first of all, it's debatable whether or not end of game strategy was responsible for the losses, but even if we assume that they were, it doesn't mean the strategy is wrong...you just don't remember all the times the strategy worked because human nature remembers the losses and not the victories (it's also impossible to prove that a different strategy would have led to a win, or vice versa in the case of victories). like i stated earlier, few does what he does because he believes it gives his teams the best chance of winning.

btw - despite what some on this board believe, this coaching staff is always striving to improve themselves and what they believe gives their team the best chance of winning does change from time to time...gonzaga is still evolving.

GoZags
12-14-2014, 07:34 AM
Gonzaga vs UCLA .... end of game scores (let's see what happened)

8 minutes left ... GU up 13
7 minutes left ... GU up 11
6 minutes left ... GU up 11
5 minutes left ... GU up 11
4 minutes left ... GU up 11
3 minutes left ... GU up 12
2 minutes left ... GU up 13
1 minute left ... GU up 12
end of the game.. GU up 13

Sure, the lead "slipped" to high single digits for 50 seconds (4:59 to 4:09) but I'm not getting this "woe is me" business. THIS game was never in doubt.

Play by play recap linked below.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400593221&period=2

bartruff1
12-14-2014, 07:57 AM
For a variety of reasons, there will always be fans that need to criticize ...

they are not going to stop....

they are not going to go away..

.it is a relatively small price to pay to have access to the fun (laughs) and information readily available on the forum...

It might be best to just ignore them.....for those of you that are not aware, there is a ignore option on the board...

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-14-2014, 08:19 AM
Gonzaga vs UCLA .... end of game scores (let's see what happened)

8 minutes left ... GU up 13
7 minutes left ... GU up 11
6 minutes left ... GU up 11
5 minutes left ... GU up 11
4 minutes left ... GU up 11
3 minutes left ... GU up 12
2 minutes left ... GU up 13
1 minute left ... GU up 12
end of the game.. GU up 13

Sure, the lead "slipped" to high single digits for 50 seconds (4:59 to 4:09) but I'm not getting this "woe is me" business. THIS game was never in doubt.

Play by play recap linked below.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400593221&period=2

Our fans having high expectations this year is what makes this board exciting. Dixie and ABE/Doc are just awesome with their critiques. In this game I thought we were fine down the stretch from a strategy coaching perspective. Lets be honest we need Big E and the return of Jenks could be huge. Our ceiling has not been reached which is the most exciting thing about watching Gonzaga basketball right now. Karnowski is the guy showing the most improvement to me at the moment. He has great chemistry with KW in particular. Sabonis is getting better every day. That kid has the capability of putting a team on his back in a few months.

Birddog
12-14-2014, 08:56 AM
Gonzaga vs UCLA .... end of game scores (let's see what happened)

8 minutes left ... GU up 13
7 minutes left ... GU up 11
6 minutes left ... GU up 11
5 minutes left ... GU up 11
4 minutes left ... GU up 11
3 minutes left ... GU up 12
2 minutes left ... GU up 13
1 minute left ... GU up 12
end of the game.. GU up 13

Sure, the lead "slipped" to high single digits for 50 seconds (4:59 to 4:09) but I'm not getting this "woe is me" business. THIS game was never in doubt.

Play by play recap linked below.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400593221&period=2

Here is a clip of GoZags leading a tour of some posters at his other job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2pt2-F2j2g
Some lessons can be learned here, i think.

Mr Vulture
12-14-2014, 09:15 AM
We didn't lose to Wichita State because of the coaching..come on now! We lost Bell in that game for one thing. Also, there were at least three 3pt shots in that game by Wichita that were desperation heaves at the end of the shot clock. Including one late in the game that was a turnaround bank shot that ended our momentum run. I didn't see anything in the Arizona game this year or the UCLA game that Few did questionably. To be honest, I don't even know what you're talking about in regards to Memphis??

DixieZag
12-14-2014, 09:21 AM
Dixie.... Dot even pull thy Wichita state garbage on us. You know bell was hurt. Arizona doesn't count. That game was closer and again, wiltjer makes that sho you think differently .... Memphis I have to agree though. I am still uber pissed at that game.... Ugh

I wasn't talking about losses so much as games where our style of play seemed to take the air out of the ball a little. I could have looked to some victories, too, in which its happened. And Vulture, no one said we "Lost b/c of coaching" - there were lots of moving parts coming together, the fact they couldn't miss, Bell's injury, etc. We're just talking about a style of play irrespective of the result.

To each his own, but I'm not the only one who thinks that at certain times they've played more not to lose than to rip a victory out. Though, with respect to this game, I see MickMicks excellent point and see this game now somewhat differently in light of his post. And, though, yes, we see that graph with the point spread throughout the end and it looks pretty good, but again, they had several opportunities to cut it to 6 or 5, including Wesley's block and Pangos' prayer. We're not saying he's a bad coach, just a strategy at the end of games that looks like a pattern and will sometimes bite us. Perhaps sometimes it saves us, too.

gonzagafan62
12-14-2014, 09:29 AM
I wasn't talking about losses so much as games where we seemed to take the air out of the ball a little.

To each his own, but I'm not the only one who thinks that at certain times they've played more not to lose than to rip a victory out. Though, with respect to this game, I see MickMicks excellent point and see it somewhat differently.

Yeah that's an interesting perspective and I agree sometimes it does feel like thy play to not lose rather than rip out a victory. I do se that. Although in the Arizona game it seemed like we were still matching basket or basket and Arizonas defense did kick in at the end. I see what you are saying as I do agree. It's not as frustrating to me I guess Bc I like that style of coaching. Less possessions for the other team. It ha worked countless times. Plus if that Arizona game would have kept going idk that my poor little heart could have kept beating. It was already about to explode. I don't think id be here typing this right now lol

GrizZAG
12-14-2014, 09:46 AM
Wow, seems if someone asks a valid question you have to pick whether you are a Few hater or not. The question has been pondered by many in this board in the past as well as in many discussions. I know when there is 3-4 minutes left and the opponent is within striking distance, it is nerve racking and we get anxious for the clock to burn up and retain our lead, but that is why they slow it down in my view, just to burn some clock and not turn it over to allow the competitor to score.
What does bug me more is that when an opponent begins trapping and grabbing at the ball, why more fouls are not called. We've seen our guys get mauled in those final minutes too many times with no whistles.
Why can't someone ask a valid question without creating a war on this board? The OP is not alone pondering this question, give him a break. Give your best response, not attack the OP. The question does not indicate criticism of Few or Zags, only a query for gosh sakes.

zag buddy
12-15-2014, 12:30 PM
Not to beat a dead horse but if you are going to have one or two players dibbling on the perimeter , who are going to get double teamed, why not have your two bigs at the defensive end to stop a fast break in the event of a turnover. This could aplply when you don't need more points but you do need to stop the opponents from getting more points. At least you are not going to get an easy transition bucket when the refs swallow their whistles and there is a turnover. I cannot remember the last time we passed it in to a big at the end of the game (not counting in bounding the ball) I was not thinking of the UCLA game in particular when I started this post. I was just trying to think of different strategies for a super aggressive opponent going after the ball at all costs in a game when we were ahead. This situation may appear over and over this year.Of course I'm not saying to do this every possession just that it could be added to the arsenal of response a team might have. Don't take me to seriously, I don't. I have a tendency when there is a problem to try to think outside the box after considering conventional responses. An other thought is to put 3 players on the perimeter a 4th at the free throw line with one big dropping back. Someone like Nunez.
Another outside the box thought is rather than have big K struggle with free throw shooting,(I'm sure he has practiced many thousands and with his success ratio it does not seem to be a natural act for him) have him try shooting underhanded. There were some great free throw shooters who did that. He has soft hands. get his arm and hand muscles out of the picture. If that does not yield the expected results have him try shooting two handed free throws ( push shots). One of thse techniques could totally change his free throw stats. They could only get better.