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View Full Version : Pangos took elbow to head vs Zona



Goshzagit
12-11-2014, 07:51 AM
Does anyone recall when Kevin was elbowed in the back of head during an in-bounds play vs Arizona?

I believe it was Stanley Johnson who accidentally collided with Pangos after he scored and we were attempting to in bound the ball to Kevin.

This particular play was pretty much OFF camera as the camera crew continued to follow our offense down the court, yet when KP was hit, he immediately dropped to the floor and was rubbing and shaking his head. Looking down, not up. Appeared dazed and shaken up. He 'shook it off' fairly quickly, and subsequently jogged down the court, into play, and back into camera view.

He wasn't the same player the rest of the game. He suddenly lost that "Pangos pep" to his step, that urgency, that underrated quickness with or without the ball.

Interestingly, he looked no better -- or healthier -- last evening vs WSU. Just like he did post-elbow-to-head. While he took another shot and landed hard vs WSU, he seemed off well BEFORE that play as well. Almost as if he re-injured whatever occurred following injury vs Zona.

One could tell the injury affected and effected Pangos vs Arizona as he dropped instantaneously, almost as if he blacked out for a second, took him a bit to get going down the court and join the team. Almost as if adrenaline was fueling his continued play, albeit hampered.

I, for one, am concerned. I feel many more share the obvious sentiment.

He's taken TWO pretty significant blows to the head, potentially concussions. While I believe minor, he seems to be showing at least some obvious symptoms, if we're being honest. Out of sorts, slowed reaction speed, atypical performance, confusion on bench, etc. If there was one player to play through injury, it'd be him. All competitive players are fearful of admitting concussion type symptoms, even minor ones.

Remember, players are able to play through concussions all the time (unless severe), yet doesn't mean they are not effected physically. There are endless "grades". One of my biggest worries, besides his shot being way off, is he's stopped dribbling with his left hand all of a sudden. Another odd wrinkle to his game.

If you replay the injury vs Zona, his body went limp for a moment folks, he didn't see the elbow which was a direct blow to head. He rubbed his head for the next 3 or 4 dead ball timeouts as well.

I hope he can recover quickly. Again, rest is his best friend, yet I hope its not only us noticing something is wrong.

And ironically enough, "I'm just tired/fatigued Coach" is the #1 symptom of a mild concussion. FYI.

bartruff1
12-11-2014, 08:01 AM
I have complete confidence in the coaches and medical staff....if there is a problem they are in the best position to address it.... rather than speculate about it...

gonzagafan62
12-11-2014, 08:04 AM
I have complete confidence in the coaches and medical staff....if there is a problem they are in the best position to address it.... rather than speculate about it...

+1 if Jennifer had any doubts, they would be in the locker room.

Goshzagit
12-11-2014, 08:12 AM
I have complete confidence in the coaches and medical staff....if there is a problem they are in the best position to address it.... rather than speculate about it...

Speculate?

Hmmm...maybe...yet can't deny the fact he's taken TWO serious blows to the head in last week alone.

Its simply not speculating to watch Pangos hit the floor hard following direct collisions to his head.

No speculating watching him blink wildly while rubbing the back of his head after dropping to the court, and/or more recently, lay limply on the ground, grab his face, and walk slowly off court after another shot to his noggin.

Speculation on a potential or mild concussion, sure, yet the kid has taken two hits to a compromised area and seems to be shaken up.

Yes, I fully trust the trainers and staff, that's not the OP. I'm sharing concern about what I've witnessed following two apparent injuries.

Whether you want to label them 'injuries' or not, Pangos has been shaken up. No one can speculate that.

After seeing him hold his head for two consecutive games and watching his performance suffer -- coincidentally or not -- is something of concern and rightfully so.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-11-2014, 08:33 AM
Does anyone recall when Kevin was elbowed in the back of head during an in-bounds play vs Arizona?

I believe it was Stanley Johnson who accidentally collided with Pangos after he scored and we were attempting to in bound the ball to Kevin.

This particular play was pretty much OFF camera as the camera crew continued to follow our offense down the court, yet when KP was hit, he immediately dropped to the floor and was rubbing and shaking his head. Looking down, not up. Appeared dazed and shaken up. He 'shook it off' fairly quickly, and subsequently jogged down the court, into play, and back into camera view.

He wasn't the same player the rest of the game. He suddenly lost that "Pangos pep" to his step, that urgency, that underrated quickness with or without the ball.

Interestingly, he looked no better -- or healthier -- last evening vs WSU. Just like he did post-elbow-to-head. While he took another shot and landed hard vs WSU, he seemed off well BEFORE that play as well. Almost as if he re-injured whatever occurred following injury vs Zona.

One could tell the injury affected and effected Pangos vs Arizona as he dropped instantaneously, almost as if he blacked out for a second, took him a bit to get going down the court and join the team. Almost as if adrenaline was fueling his continued play, albeit hampered.

I, for one, am concerned. I feel many more share the obvious sentiment.

He's taken TWO pretty significant blows to the head, potentially concussions. While I believe minor, he seems to be showing at least some obvious symptoms, if we're being honest. Out of sorts, slowed reaction speed, atypical performance, confusion on bench, etc. If there was one player to play through injury, it'd be him. All competitive players are fearful of admitting concussion type symptoms, even minor ones.

Remember, players are able to play through concussions all the time (unless severe), yet doesn't mean they are not effected physically. There are endless "grades". One of my biggest worries, besides his shot being way off, is he's stopped dribbling with his left hand all of a sudden. Another odd wrinkle to his game.

If you replay the injury vs Zona, his body went limp for a moment folks, he didn't see the elbow which was a direct blow to head. He rubbed his head for the next 3 or 4 dead ball timeouts as well.

I hope he can recover quickly. Again, rest is his best friend, yet I hope its not only us noticing something is wrong.

And ironically enough, "I'm just tired/fatigued Coach" is the #1 symptom of a mild concussion. FYI.
How is anyone supposed to remember something they did not see, or there was no comment made by the announcers, and no subsequent attention to? Speculation comes in many flavors...

siliconzag
12-11-2014, 08:36 AM
Does anyone recall when Kevin was elbowed in the back of head during an in-bounds play vs Arizona?

I believe it was Stanley Johnson who accidentally collided with Pangos after he scored and we were attempting to in bound the ball to Kevin.

This particular play was pretty much OFF camera as the camera crew continued to follow our offense down the court, yet when KP was hit, he immediately dropped to the floor and was rubbing and shaking his head. Looking down, not up. Appeared dazed and shaken up. He 'shook it off' fairly quickly, and subsequently jogged down the court, into play, and back into camera view.

He wasn't the same player the rest of the game. He suddenly lost that "Pangos pep" to his step, that urgency, that underrated quickness with or without the ball.

Interestingly, he looked no better -- or healthier -- last evening vs WSU. Just like he did post-elbow-to-head. While he took another shot and landed hard vs WSU, he seemed off well BEFORE that play as well. Almost as if he re-injured whatever occurred following injury vs Zona.

One could tell the injury affected and effected Pangos vs Arizona as he dropped instantaneously, almost as if he blacked out for a second, took him a bit to get going down the court and join the team. Almost as if adrenaline was fueling his continued play, albeit hampered.

I, for one, am concerned. I feel many more share the obvious sentiment.

He's taken TWO pretty significant blows to the head, potentially concussions. While I believe minor, he seems to be showing at least some obvious symptoms, if we're being honest. Out of sorts, slowed reaction speed, atypical performance, confusion on bench, etc. If there was one player to play through injury, it'd be him. All competitive players are fearful of admitting concussion type symptoms, even minor ones.

Remember, players are able to play through concussions all the time (unless severe), yet doesn't mean they are not effected physically. There are endless "grades". One of my biggest worries, besides his shot being way off, is he's stopped dribbling with his left hand all of a sudden. Another odd wrinkle to his game.

If you replay the injury vs Zona, his body went limp for a moment folks, he didn't see the elbow which was a direct blow to head. He rubbed his head for the next 3 or 4 dead ball timeouts as well.

I hope he can recover quickly. Again, rest is his best friend, yet I hope its not only us noticing something is wrong.

And ironically enough, "I'm just tired/fatigued Coach" is the #1 symptom of a mild concussion. FYI.

Thanks for posting this. I am not sure if it applies to Kevin or not, however it is a possible explanation. I hope that the medical staff at GU is up on the latest management of this under diagnosed condition, or a mild concussion or MTBI (mild traumatic brain Injury) Unfortunately Bart, in my experience at least, most coaches and many physicians are not as aware of the latest guidelines as would be ideal. Often in the cases of kids as gritty as Kevin, the coaches leave it up to the athlete, with questions like, "are you ok?" (Hardly a good screening device).

http://www.neurology.org/content/80/24/2250.full%20http:

I hope that 1) Kevin does not have a concussion (and remember this is not based on the old idea that LOC or loss of consciousness is present, just neurological impairment or symptoms such as transient confusion or headache and 2) That if he does have mild cognitive impairment that he is benched until it resolves. Obviously his health is of greatest concern to all Zag fans and Coaches. No game is important enough to risk it, and using old methods for determining eligibility in this day and age is indefensible. We have seen far too many tragedies including loss of life. My guess is that most of these mild brain contusions (that is the physiologic basis of a concussion) allow athletes to return to play, assuming the symptoms of headache of neurological impairment are absent.

Here is another article. The good news is that individualization of risk is possible thus allowing Kevin to play again, assuming no neurological sequelae.

https://www.aan.com/PressRoom/Home/PressRelease/1164

jazzdelmar
12-11-2014, 09:07 AM
Thx Sili for injecting a learned opinion on an important matter.....it's offputting that some here brush it aside as nothing if not detected by medical staff...

raise the zag
12-11-2014, 09:21 AM
How is anyone supposed to remember something they did not see, or there was no comment made by the announcers, and no subsequent attention to? Speculation comes in many flavors...

Watch the replay.

You can't miss it. The said 'injury' occurs mid-way through the 1st half when Pangos takes elbow/forearm to back of head on Arizona's side of court.

He literally goes from cutting full-speed to a limp biscuit on the court. Shortly afterward, he's seen rubbing back of head and slowly moving to position.

Not sure if it caused any issue, yet very clear cut he was hit and noticeably shaken for awhile.

Same with last night.

bartruff1
12-11-2014, 10:33 AM
Off putting.... what a cool concept.... here is another cool concept... conflation...

VinnyZag
12-11-2014, 10:39 AM
With what's been happening lately in the NFL, and the Michigan football issue this fall, it's hard to believe that they'd be letting him play if he had any sort of a concussion symptom. Wins or losses don't matter much in that context. This is the sort of thing that causes lifelong health problems (and gets coaches and administrators fired).

I suspect his struggles against Arizona had more to do with TJ McConnel and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. I think he did get injured more last night than anybody with the program is letting on, but we have no information about that right now.

I listen to ESPN's fantasy football podcast, and their injury expert (Stephania Bell) likes to say, "There is no such thing as a mild concussion." So, if he has any sort of a concussion, I'd like to think they'd be sitting him.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-11-2014, 11:13 AM
Yeah I watched the replay and Pangos and Stanley run into each other at around 17:50? in the first half and Pangos hits the floor and gets up rubbing his head but there were no elbows or arms in the contact he just ran into 245 pounds and then hit the floor as I look at it I think he and Stanley both hit heads, the difference being Stanley was facing the back of Pangos head and saw it coming, whereas Pangos was facing the other way and it was probably a bit of a shock...he did rub his head in the back...I don't think it was enough to suggest it slowed down his play or decision making...

Anything serious enough to warrant going to the bench is serious enough to require some kind of formal examination, I'm not saying going to the locker rooms Doctor exam but at least something more than "How do you feel?"

jazzdelmar
12-11-2014, 11:28 AM
Off putting.... what a cool concept.... here is another cool concept... conflation...

U mean like inflated view of self?

bartruff1
12-11-2014, 11:56 AM
U mean like inflated view of self? I wouldn't describe you in that way...not at all....disingenuous perhaps but not egotistical ...

If you want to play tit for tat, I suggest we do it with private messages... no one is interested in our childish games..like....you started it !!!

There is of course a difference between a concussion and speculation about a concussion and conflating the two is a cheap shot and disingenuous.

gonzagafan62
12-11-2014, 12:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC75aU47GRk

Vanzagger
12-11-2014, 12:21 PM
As someone once said...he has a little hockey in him. Yes we are realizing the seriousness of concussions, but if I don't get my bell wrung at least once a year, I ask myself, did that year really happen?

229SintoZag
12-11-2014, 05:03 PM
are what give the internet its awesomeness.

I have no opinion on whether KP has a concussion. I have no opinion on whether, if he does, or did, that explains his "off" game against WSU.

I do have an opinion that I love threads like this. Keep em coming please at all costs.

Angelo Roncalli
12-11-2014, 05:17 PM
are what give the internet its awesomeness.

I have no opinion on whether KP has a concussion. I have no opinion on whether, if he does, or did, that explains his "off" game against WSU.

I do have an opinion that I love threads like this. Keep em coming please at all costs.

You're a masochist.

americasteam
12-11-2014, 05:58 PM
I know this isn't a hardhitting news article or something up to Jazz's journalistic standards but nonetheless some people like the "Day After" posts - for all the little things gathered that didn't make it into the main post-game article. If you read it, you'll note that Jacob Thorpe (who is the beat writer for WSU) and Pangos did have a couple of words talking about his hit to the head. I'll leave it to all of you to discuss the nuances of what "glassy-eyed" means.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2014/dec/11/looking-back-gonzaga-game/

*** Edited to add that this article about Kevin getting hit in the head is regarding the WSU game. I just realized this thread is about him getting hit in the head in the Arizona game.

MDABE80
12-11-2014, 06:58 PM
He's Canadian. He 's tough. Hockey tough. He can take it:)

gonzagafan62
12-11-2014, 07:31 PM
Thanks for posting this. I am not sure if it applies to Kevin or not, however it is a possible explanation. I hope that the medical staff at GU is up on the latest management of this under diagnosed condition, or a mild concussion or MTBI (mild traumatic brain Injury) Unfortunately Bart, in my experience at least, most coaches and many physicians are not as aware of the latest guidelines as would be ideal. Often in the cases of kids as gritty as Kevin, the coaches leave it up to the athlete, with questions like, "are you ok?" (Hardly a good screening device).

http://www.neurology.org/content/80/24/2250.full%20http:

I hope that 1) Kevin does not have a concussion (and remember this is not based on the old idea that LOC or loss of consciousness is present, just neurological impairment or symptoms such as transient confusion or headache and 2) That if he does have mild cognitive impairment that he is benched until it resolves. Obviously his health is of greatest concern to all Zag fans and Coaches. No game is important enough to risk it, and using old methods for determining eligibility in this day and age is indefensible. We have seen far too many tragedies including loss of life. My guess is that most of these mild brain contusions (that is the physiologic basis of a concussion) allow athletes to return to play, assuming the symptoms of headache of neurological impairment are absent.

Here is another article. The good news is that individualization of risk is possible thus allowing Kevin to play again, assuming no neurological sequelae.

https://www.aan.com/PressRoom/Home/PressRelease/1164

I'm pretty sure we all now the extent of concussions and how serious of an issue this has devolved into over the last 20 years... But you really have any doubts that Kevin would be out there if there was ANY doubt he had a concussion? I trust the coaches Jennifer and Kevin to make the smart choice. I know we are still talking about kids here but Kevin should know the risks of concussions by just having Nunez on the roster...I don think he would take that chance

DixieZag
12-11-2014, 08:00 PM
He's Canadian. He 's tough. Hockey tough. He can take it:)

I agree, but that's sometimes a problem, especially with concussions. As I said above, if he's scared a little about missing a couple mid-season games, he might put himself at far greater danger for missing many more by coming back too early. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. I defer to none in my confidence in that staff, but it's only as good as the info they are getting.

thespywhozaggedme
12-13-2014, 07:53 PM
Watching this game, and the one against Wazzu, it's clear there's something wrong with him. I don't know if it's the two hits to the head, but I really hope hes okay.