Pangos took elbow to head vs Zona

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  • Goshzagit
    Zag for Life
    • Dec 2007
    • 3477

    Pangos took elbow to head vs Zona

    Does anyone recall when Kevin was elbowed in the back of head during an in-bounds play vs Arizona?

    I believe it was Stanley Johnson who accidentally collided with Pangos after he scored and we were attempting to in bound the ball to Kevin.

    This particular play was pretty much OFF camera as the camera crew continued to follow our offense down the court, yet when KP was hit, he immediately dropped to the floor and was rubbing and shaking his head. Looking down, not up. Appeared dazed and shaken up. He 'shook it off' fairly quickly, and subsequently jogged down the court, into play, and back into camera view.

    He wasn't the same player the rest of the game. He suddenly lost that "Pangos pep" to his step, that urgency, that underrated quickness with or without the ball.

    Interestingly, he looked no better -- or healthier -- last evening vs WSU. Just like he did post-elbow-to-head. While he took another shot and landed hard vs WSU, he seemed off well BEFORE that play as well. Almost as if he re-injured whatever occurred following injury vs Zona.

    One could tell the injury affected and effected Pangos vs Arizona as he dropped instantaneously, almost as if he blacked out for a second, took him a bit to get going down the court and join the team. Almost as if adrenaline was fueling his continued play, albeit hampered.

    I, for one, am concerned. I feel many more share the obvious sentiment.

    He's taken TWO pretty significant blows to the head, potentially concussions. While I believe minor, he seems to be showing at least some obvious symptoms, if we're being honest. Out of sorts, slowed reaction speed, atypical performance, confusion on bench, etc. If there was one player to play through injury, it'd be him. All competitive players are fearful of admitting concussion type symptoms, even minor ones.

    Remember, players are able to play through concussions all the time (unless severe), yet doesn't mean they are not effected physically. There are endless "grades". One of my biggest worries, besides his shot being way off, is he's stopped dribbling with his left hand all of a sudden. Another odd wrinkle to his game.

    If you replay the injury vs Zona, his body went limp for a moment folks, he didn't see the elbow which was a direct blow to head. He rubbed his head for the next 3 or 4 dead ball timeouts as well.

    I hope he can recover quickly. Again, rest is his best friend, yet I hope its not only us noticing something is wrong.

    And ironically enough, "I'm just tired/fatigued Coach" is the #1 symptom of a mild concussion. FYI.
  • bartruff1
    Zag for Life
    • Jan 2010
    • 9404

    #2
    I have complete confidence in the coaches and medical staff....if there is a problem they are in the best position to address it.... rather than speculate about it...

    Comment

    • gonzagafan62
      Zag for Life
      • Nov 2013
      • 9120

      #3
      Originally posted by bartruff1 View Post
      I have complete confidence in the coaches and medical staff....if there is a problem they are in the best position to address it.... rather than speculate about it...
      +1 if Jennifer had any doubts, they would be in the locker room.
      Qualified for 26 Straight Big Dances

      15 Straight Round of 32s

      14 Sweet Sixteens (9 Straight)

      6 Elite Eights

      2017 AND 2021 FINAL FOUR

      2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

      2021 Undefeated Regular Season

      The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

      Comment

      • Goshzagit
        Zag for Life
        • Dec 2007
        • 3477

        #4
        Originally posted by bartruff1 View Post
        I have complete confidence in the coaches and medical staff....if there is a problem they are in the best position to address it.... rather than speculate about it...
        Speculate?

        Hmmm...maybe...yet can't deny the fact he's taken TWO serious blows to the head in last week alone.

        Its simply not speculating to watch Pangos hit the floor hard following direct collisions to his head.

        No speculating watching him blink wildly while rubbing the back of his head after dropping to the court, and/or more recently, lay limply on the ground, grab his face, and walk slowly off court after another shot to his noggin.

        Speculation on a potential or mild concussion, sure, yet the kid has taken two hits to a compromised area and seems to be shaken up.

        Yes, I fully trust the trainers and staff, that's not the OP. I'm sharing concern about what I've witnessed following two apparent injuries.

        Whether you want to label them 'injuries' or not, Pangos has been shaken up. No one can speculate that.

        After seeing him hold his head for two consecutive games and watching his performance suffer -- coincidentally or not -- is something of concern and rightfully so.

        Comment

        • AnonAzZagTemp
          Bulldog Fan
          • Dec 2014
          • 62

          #5
          Originally posted by Goshzagit View Post
          Does anyone recall when Kevin was elbowed in the back of head during an in-bounds play vs Arizona?

          I believe it was Stanley Johnson who accidentally collided with Pangos after he scored and we were attempting to in bound the ball to Kevin.

          This particular play was pretty much OFF camera
          as the camera crew continued to follow our offense down the court, yet when KP was hit, he immediately dropped to the floor and was rubbing and shaking his head. Looking down, not up. Appeared dazed and shaken up. He 'shook it off' fairly quickly, and subsequently jogged down the court, into play, and back into camera view.

          He wasn't the same player the rest of the game. He suddenly lost that "Pangos pep" to his step, that urgency, that underrated quickness with or without the ball.

          Interestingly, he looked no better -- or healthier -- last evening vs WSU. Just like he did post-elbow-to-head. While he took another shot and landed hard vs WSU, he seemed off well BEFORE that play as well. Almost as if he re-injured whatever occurred following injury vs Zona.

          One could tell the injury affected and effected Pangos vs Arizona as he dropped instantaneously, almost as if he blacked out for a second, took him a bit to get going down the court and join the team. Almost as if adrenaline was fueling his continued play, albeit hampered.

          I, for one, am concerned. I feel many more share the obvious sentiment.

          He's taken TWO pretty significant blows to the head, potentially concussions. While I believe minor, he seems to be showing at least some obvious symptoms, if we're being honest. Out of sorts, slowed reaction speed, atypical performance, confusion on bench, etc. If there was one player to play through injury, it'd be him. All competitive players are fearful of admitting concussion type symptoms, even minor ones.

          Remember, players are able to play through concussions all the time (unless severe), yet doesn't mean they are not effected physically. There are endless "grades". One of my biggest worries, besides his shot being way off, is he's stopped dribbling with his left hand all of a sudden. Another odd wrinkle to his game.

          If you replay the injury vs Zona, his body went limp for a moment folks, he didn't see the elbow which was a direct blow to head. He rubbed his head for the next 3 or 4 dead ball timeouts as well.

          I hope he can recover quickly. Again, rest is his best friend, yet I hope its not only us noticing something is wrong.

          And ironically enough, "I'm just tired/fatigued Coach" is the #1 symptom of a mild concussion. FYI.
          How is anyone supposed to remember something they did not see, or there was no comment made by the announcers, and no subsequent attention to? Speculation comes in many flavors...

          Comment

          • siliconzag
            Bleeds GU Blue
            • Feb 2007
            • 898

            #6
            Mild Traumatic Brain Injuries

            Originally posted by Goshzagit View Post
            Does anyone recall when Kevin was elbowed in the back of head during an in-bounds play vs Arizona?

            I believe it was Stanley Johnson who accidentally collided with Pangos after he scored and we were attempting to in bound the ball to Kevin.

            This particular play was pretty much OFF camera as the camera crew continued to follow our offense down the court, yet when KP was hit, he immediately dropped to the floor and was rubbing and shaking his head. Looking down, not up. Appeared dazed and shaken up. He 'shook it off' fairly quickly, and subsequently jogged down the court, into play, and back into camera view.

            He wasn't the same player the rest of the game. He suddenly lost that "Pangos pep" to his step, that urgency, that underrated quickness with or without the ball.

            Interestingly, he looked no better -- or healthier -- last evening vs WSU. Just like he did post-elbow-to-head. While he took another shot and landed hard vs WSU, he seemed off well BEFORE that play as well. Almost as if he re-injured whatever occurred following injury vs Zona.

            One could tell the injury affected and effected Pangos vs Arizona as he dropped instantaneously, almost as if he blacked out for a second, took him a bit to get going down the court and join the team. Almost as if adrenaline was fueling his continued play, albeit hampered.

            I, for one, am concerned. I feel many more share the obvious sentiment.

            He's taken TWO pretty significant blows to the head, potentially concussions. While I believe minor, he seems to be showing at least some obvious symptoms, if we're being honest. Out of sorts, slowed reaction speed, atypical performance, confusion on bench, etc. If there was one player to play through injury, it'd be him. All competitive players are fearful of admitting concussion type symptoms, even minor ones.

            Remember, players are able to play through concussions all the time (unless severe), yet doesn't mean they are not effected physically. There are endless "grades". One of my biggest worries, besides his shot being way off, is he's stopped dribbling with his left hand all of a sudden. Another odd wrinkle to his game.

            If you replay the injury vs Zona, his body went limp for a moment folks, he didn't see the elbow which was a direct blow to head. He rubbed his head for the next 3 or 4 dead ball timeouts as well.

            I hope he can recover quickly. Again, rest is his best friend, yet I hope its not only us noticing something is wrong.

            And ironically enough, "I'm just tired/fatigued Coach" is the #1 symptom of a mild concussion. FYI.
            Thanks for posting this. I am not sure if it applies to Kevin or not, however it is a possible explanation. I hope that the medical staff at GU is up on the latest management of this under diagnosed condition, or a mild concussion or MTBI (mild traumatic brain Injury) Unfortunately Bart, in my experience at least, most coaches and many physicians are not as aware of the latest guidelines as would be ideal. Often in the cases of kids as gritty as Kevin, the coaches leave it up to the athlete, with questions like, "are you ok?" (Hardly a good screening device).



            I hope that 1) Kevin does not have a concussion (and remember this is not based on the old idea that LOC or loss of consciousness is present, just neurological impairment or symptoms such as transient confusion or headache and 2) That if he does have mild cognitive impairment that he is benched until it resolves. Obviously his health is of greatest concern to all Zag fans and Coaches. No game is important enough to risk it, and using old methods for determining eligibility in this day and age is indefensible. We have seen far too many tragedies including loss of life. My guess is that most of these mild brain contusions (that is the physiologic basis of a concussion) allow athletes to return to play, assuming the symptoms of headache of neurological impairment are absent.

            Here is another article. The good news is that individualization of risk is possible thus allowing Kevin to play again, assuming no neurological sequelae.

            Comment

            • jazzdelmar
              Zag for Life
              • Feb 2007
              • 22838

              #7
              Thx Sili for injecting a learned opinion on an important matter.....it's offputting that some here brush it aside as nothing if not detected by medical staff...

              Comment

              • raise the zag
                Zag for Life
                • May 2011
                • 3175

                #8
                Originally posted by AnonAzZagTemp View Post
                How is anyone supposed to remember something they did not see, or there was no comment made by the announcers, and no subsequent attention to? Speculation comes in many flavors...
                Watch the replay.

                You can't miss it. The said 'injury' occurs mid-way through the 1st half when Pangos takes elbow/forearm to back of head on Arizona's side of court.

                He literally goes from cutting full-speed to a limp biscuit on the court. Shortly afterward, he's seen rubbing back of head and slowly moving to position.

                Not sure if it caused any issue, yet very clear cut he was hit and noticeably shaken for awhile.

                Same with last night.

                Comment

                • bartruff1
                  Zag for Life
                  • Jan 2010
                  • 9404

                  #9
                  Off putting.... what a cool concept.... here is another cool concept... conflation...

                  Comment

                  • VinnyZag
                    Zag for Life
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 3049

                    #10
                    With what's been happening lately in the NFL, and the Michigan football issue this fall, it's hard to believe that they'd be letting him play if he had any sort of a concussion symptom. Wins or losses don't matter much in that context. This is the sort of thing that causes lifelong health problems (and gets coaches and administrators fired).

                    I suspect his struggles against Arizona had more to do with TJ McConnel and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. I think he did get injured more last night than anybody with the program is letting on, but we have no information about that right now.

                    I listen to ESPN's fantasy football podcast, and their injury expert (Stephania Bell) likes to say, "There is no such thing as a mild concussion." So, if he has any sort of a concussion, I'd like to think they'd be sitting him.

                    Comment

                    • AnonAzZagTemp
                      Bulldog Fan
                      • Dec 2014
                      • 62

                      #11
                      Yeah I watched the replay and Pangos and Stanley run into each other at around 17:50? in the first half and Pangos hits the floor and gets up rubbing his head but there were no elbows or arms in the contact he just ran into 245 pounds and then hit the floor as I look at it I think he and Stanley both hit heads, the difference being Stanley was facing the back of Pangos head and saw it coming, whereas Pangos was facing the other way and it was probably a bit of a shock...he did rub his head in the back...I don't think it was enough to suggest it slowed down his play or decision making...

                      Anything serious enough to warrant going to the bench is serious enough to require some kind of formal examination, I'm not saying going to the locker rooms Doctor exam but at least something more than "How do you feel?"

                      Comment

                      • jazzdelmar
                        Zag for Life
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 22838

                        #12
                        Originally posted by bartruff1 View Post
                        Off putting.... what a cool concept.... here is another cool concept... conflation...
                        U mean like inflated view of self?

                        Comment

                        • bartruff1
                          Zag for Life
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 9404

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jazzdelmar View Post
                          U mean like inflated view of self?
                          I wouldn't describe you in that way...not at all....disingenuous perhaps but not egotistical ...

                          If you want to play tit for tat, I suggest we do it with private messages... no one is interested in our childish games..like....you started it !!!

                          There is of course a difference between a concussion and speculation about a concussion and conflating the two is a cheap shot and disingenuous.

                          Comment

                          • gonzagafan62
                            Zag for Life
                            • Nov 2013
                            • 9120

                            #14
                            A short and simple video that plays the sound of the "Sad Trombone". Typically heard when someone loses at something or fails at something. http://SoundFXNo...
                            Qualified for 26 Straight Big Dances

                            15 Straight Round of 32s

                            14 Sweet Sixteens (9 Straight)

                            6 Elite Eights

                            2017 AND 2021 FINAL FOUR

                            2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

                            2021 Undefeated Regular Season

                            The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

                            Comment

                            • Vanzagger
                              Zag for Life
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 1603

                              #15
                              As someone once said...he has a little hockey in him. Yes we are realizing the seriousness of concussions, but if I don't get my bell wrung at least once a year, I ask myself, did that year really happen?
                              Think Big. No think Bigger than that!

                              Comment

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