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View Full Version : Gonzaga vs Washington St: Post game thoughts



Reborn
12-10-2014, 09:25 PM
Way to go Zags!!! It was so nice to see Karnowski have a great game. He really made me smile a lot tonight. Way to go big guy. Pangos certainly got his rest tonight. Hope he's ready to play Saturday.

Wiljer and Wesley just keep looking better each game. I really believe they are getting more comfortable with the offensive sets, as well as playing with the team. Nice flow to the offense. Dranginis is certainly getting more and more like Mike Hart, which is great. He is certainly a glue guy, and is really playing nice when Kevin goes out. Kyle D, Gary B and Wesley were running the offense nicely.

I could still see that the loss Saturday still stung. They seemed to lack fire in the first half (except Karno of course). But they did begin to flow much better the second half. Now they just need to get ready for a huge game Saturday in LA.

Go Zags!!!

RenoZag
12-10-2014, 09:32 PM
Very worried about Pangos. That's all.

CDC84
12-10-2014, 09:34 PM
WSU shot 52% from the field and 50% from three. The defense wasn't good tonight. This really should've been a 26-30 point win.

That being said, it's always nice to beat the Cougs.

The real danger with this team is that they are so offensively gifted that they can easily dupe themselves into believing that they can just outscore people. Well, they can't when they play the better teams. Especially in March.

Gonzaga in many of these upcoming games is going to be competing against themselves. Their offense will win the game by default. They need to strive each night to be the best defensive team they can be.

I felt Karno was just outstanding tonight, and even though Pangos was out of it, I felt it was best for the team that he got to sit and let the team run offense without him on the floor. That kid cannot play 40 MPG. Even against the better teams GU plays, he needs to be getting at least 5 to 6 minutes of rest.

Birddog
12-10-2014, 09:34 PM
When they grade the players after the video, Karno and Draino will be way up there. Wesley had a good game too. Wiltjer needs to tighten up his "D". I'm not sure what was wrong with Kevin, maybe he was just trying too hard with his family in attendance. He was forcing things tonight, and not much to show for it.

gonzagafan62
12-10-2014, 09:38 PM
Very worried about Pangos. That's all.

Yup. Didn't look serious but you know how that goes... Dammit. We are so unlucky sometimes

seacatfan
12-10-2014, 09:38 PM
Iroegbu has given GU fits the last 2 years. Not sure that he's done much of anything against anyone other than GU. Not quite sure why Gonzaga seems to make him look so good.

Vanzagger
12-10-2014, 09:44 PM
Nice win

WallaWallaZag
12-10-2014, 09:59 PM
Yup. Didn't look serious but you know how that goes... Dammit. We are so unlucky sometimes

pangos wasn't playing well even before hitting the deck...he needs to bounce back because zags won't go anywhere in march with him playing like this. dunno, maybe a bit of a hangover from getting outplayed by tj in the arizona game...pangos wanted that game bad.

BULLDOG#1
12-10-2014, 10:42 PM
Pangos rattled his head pretty good. Tough kid, but few probably should have sat him after that play. Any win against the cougs is a relief. Glad the bigs stepped up.

Mantua
12-10-2014, 10:54 PM
Very worried about Pangos. That's all.

Who knows who is coming down with the stomach flu right now. I hope it's run its course by Saturday.

I hope his head is fine. Will we hear anything more about it?

caduceus
12-10-2014, 10:58 PM
Zags are #3 in offensive efficiency now, only behind Duke and Wisconsin (though we dropped to #33 in defensive efficiency).

CdAZagFan
12-10-2014, 11:22 PM
Reborn - great thoughts, especially on Draino. I love watching him get those steals - and he had his hands on a lot more balls than his stat-line showed tonight. It's nice to see a 15-point win when Bell and Pangos combine for two points. Am a little concerned with the team defense - I saw a lot of lay-ins for the Cougars, as well as some wide open three's. Still early in the season, though - so I believe they are still having growing pains.

SteelZag
12-10-2014, 11:28 PM
Very worried about Pangos. That's all.

Very unfortunate Steve Nash and Lakers will be on road trip. No chance for a tune-up from the "Guard Whisperer."

jim77
12-11-2014, 12:10 AM
When they grade the players after the video, Karno and Draino will be way up there. Wesley had a good game too. Wiltjer needs to tighten up his "D". I'm not sure what was wrong with Kevin, maybe he was just trying too hard with his family in attendance. He was forcing things tonight, and not much to show for it.
Agreed. Especially about Draino...the kid plays tough and looks comfortable out there. I'd like to see KD give KP his blow.....KD is also a pretty athletic kid.

I think we had 3 guys with 20 or more points? That doesn't happen very often....on to UCLA!

jazzdelmar
12-11-2014, 04:35 AM
Something out of line w KP, from the first minutes of the Az game. Just not as quick, more hurried, his shot is waay off and he doesn't exude his usual swagger. Going scoreless is irrelevant, Bell had only 2, it's just the eye test.....he took a nasty fall in the beginning of the Az game so maybe jarred from that. Mc can't come fast enough. Going eye to eye w Alford's kid will be a good test; much the same type of player as KP.

ZagsGoZags
12-11-2014, 04:42 AM
to beat ucla we will need better guard play than we saw tonight, and, to some degree, the AZ game also

jazzdelmar
12-11-2014, 04:46 AM
to beat ucla we will need better guard play than we saw tonight, and, to some degree, the AZ game also

agree, ZGZ. didn't think bell tore it up either. kd was best of the group and i wd have loved to see more melson....

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-11-2014, 05:24 AM
Something out of line w KP, from the first minutes of the Az game. Just not as quick, more hurried, his shot is waay off and he doesn't exude his usual swagger. Going scoreless is irrelevant, Bell had only 2, it's just the eye test.....he took a nasty fall in the beginning of the Az game so maybe jarred from that. Mc can't come fast enough. Going eye to eye w Alford's kid will be a good test; much the same type of player as KP.

I would have liked to see Melson get around 12 minutes so that would be +4. KD played good defense on Lacy though which was nice to see. Karno was just outstanding last night from every basketball angle including dropping a few free throws.

I vote for the return of the POWER of the GOATEE for Kevin Pangos. He exudes a tougher bad boy aura with the goatee and looks just incredible on him. So maybe someone can drop a dime out in Spokane for KP to grow the goatee back! :) January 6th can't get here soon enough. Reinforcement in the back court from an athletic ball hawking guard is a key to the season.

zagfan24
12-11-2014, 05:35 AM
Karnowski looked outstanding and made some really nice passes out of double teams. One thing I noticed with Karno is that on his "and one" free throw shots he looks more comfortable. I suppose it makes sense that after a made basket, the free throw feels more like a bonus rather than a necessity...perhaps this calms him or maybe I'm reading too much into it. Regardless, he looked like the best player on the floor last night.

I thought Wesley and Dranginis both had great games as well. KD's best game of the year, IMO.

Kevin will be fine, I just hope he's injury free. Agree with others that he would really benefit from a bit more rest during games.

Birddog
12-11-2014, 05:48 AM
It appears to these old eyes that Kevin is just trying to force things to happen a little too much. The last 2 drives into the paint at Arizona and his 1st two drives vs Wazzu were ill advised. From the comfort of my living room I was yelling "what are you trying to do" on all four of those attempts. I'm aware that it's easy to be critical watching on TV but I think the old cliche about letting the game come to you fits in this case. I hope the problem is just mental and not some manifestation of a physical ailment. I think he'll work through whatever the cause though I'd like to see him play fewer minutes but not for the reason he sat last night.

Reborn
12-11-2014, 06:15 AM
I was disappointed also to not see Melson get more minutes. But nice to see him hit that 3 pointer. Dranginis is getting a lot of the minutes that I thought Melson would get; and that's okay. Kyle has played well. He's really a glue guy.

Go Zags!!!

DixieZag
12-11-2014, 06:36 AM
I am very worried about Kevin, too. We were at the game and at the end where he fell, had a very good view - he went down hard and stayed down without moving much until the refs blew the whistle.

I believe he was very shaken up afterward. OTOH, it is tough to get much read on him in a game when so clearly the game plan was throw it into the bigs until they stop them. Karno had 18 in the first half - tough to tell how a guard is playing. Same with Gary, didn't score a lot. He did run the point just fine, really well, even.

Karno has taken his game to another level in the last 2 games.

Goshzagit
12-11-2014, 07:03 AM
It appears to these old eyes that Kevin is just trying to force things to happen a little too much. The last 2 drives into the paint at Arizona and his 1st two drives vs Wazzu were ill advised. From the comfort of my living room I was yelling "what are you trying to do" on all four of those attempts. I'm aware that it's easy to be critical watching on TV but I think the old cliche about letting the game come to you fits in this case. I hope the problem is just mental and not some manifestation of a physical ailment. I think he'll work through whatever the cause though I'd like to see him play fewer minutes but not for the reason he sat last night.

Agreed.

Not really his game.

So much more effective when he takes the mid-range jumper, the stop-n-pop in transition or off first ball defender, the pass to our other studs, a tear drop runner, etc.

His drives to nowhere are weird. Not him. Healthy or not, I hope he trusts his shot again. Much like Wiltjer does. When he's open, he pulls the trigger from whevever he's at on the court.

Even Pangos 3's have been ill advised lately.

What happened to the patented RUNNER? He's been driving to the heart and teeth of the defense lately. I realize he made 1 wild, crazy, scoop shot vs Zona, yet has never worked since.

Forcing the issue when he doesn't need to. Should be forcing things less than ever, yet he's doing it more than ever.

Either he's concussed or feeling the pressure of losing Perkins like we seem to be.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-11-2014, 07:17 AM
What I like from this game is that KW was more patient on the offensive end and did not force too many shots; his 3 point shooting is warming up!

Great to have KW, BW and PK be the go-to scorers. As good as the Zags have looked this season, last night's game showed me Byron Wesley and Kyle Wiltjer are really finding their rhythm within the Zags' system.

Sabonis is great, but he seems to play as if he puts a lot of pressure on himself to make something happen every time he touches the ball.......a bit too eager, perhaps, at times but I'll take that attitude over too timid any day of the week. I predict once Sabonis sort of calms down a little bit on offense he will have a breakout 20+ scoring game. Not easy to be the son of Arvydas Sabonis....he probably feels a lot of pressure to be a superstar and make something happen every time he gets a chance to touch the ball. Calm him down big brother PK, then drop dimes to get him going!

jbslicer
12-11-2014, 07:22 AM
Ernie Kent deserved a few "T's" for being out of the coaching box and onto the court. Always nice to beat the Cougs.

raise the zag
12-11-2014, 07:30 AM
Ernie Kent deserved a few "T's" for being out of the coaching box and onto the court. Always nice to beat the Cougs.

and...a former Gael to boot. :drool:

Ezag
12-11-2014, 07:43 AM
Good win but defense needs serious work.

hooter73
12-11-2014, 08:08 AM
Not a confidence inspiring win imo.

Not necessarily concerns, but thoughts:

1) Defense.
2) Pangos
3) Wiltjer still doesnt pass the big man eye test to me but his stats say otherwise.
4) Sabonis is a very good freshman, but still a freshman. How he develops over the rest of this year and after will be very interesting to me.
5) Melson will average 5 minutes per game this year. I just dont see the point but its too late now.

adoptedzag
12-11-2014, 08:24 AM
5) Melson will average 5 minutes per game this year. I just dont see the point but its too late now.

He'll get more run once we get into conference play
I suspect he'll be in the ~10 minute range in the dog days of February.

zagfan24
12-11-2014, 08:26 AM
5) Melson will average 5 minutes per game this year. I just dont see the point but its too late now.

The point may just be that those are 5 minutes of rest for Pangos or Bell. It's not ideal, but hopefully there will be a handful of games where he will get extended minutes.

cjm720
12-11-2014, 08:40 AM
Sloppy D, worried about Pangos...would like to see more Draginis.

zag67
12-11-2014, 08:46 AM
Melson will get more minutes starting after Saturday. I think we will need him in the BYU game. Also did someone not say Pamgos might also have a touch of the flu? I am also worried and hope he gets ok quckly.

hooter73
12-11-2014, 09:20 AM
He'll get more run once we get into conference play
I suspect he'll be in the ~10 minute range in the dog days of February.

Disagree, McCellan will take up the slack.

cjm720
12-11-2014, 09:49 AM
Is it possible for Melson to put the 'shirt back on? Seems like a waste....

jazzdelmar
12-11-2014, 10:36 AM
Is it possible for Melson to put the 'shirt back on? Seems like a waste....

Gd question. I imagine if he got hurt there is still time......dont think hes played the max allowed # of games yet.

CDC84
12-11-2014, 10:40 AM
Gd question. I imagine if he got hurt there is still time......dont think hes played the max allowed # of games yet.

This only applies to a medical redshirt. Melson has burned his redshirt unless he gets hurt in the next few games (which I hope he doesn't).

cjm720
12-11-2014, 10:44 AM
This only applies to a medical redshirt. Melson has burned his redshirt unless he gets hurt in the next few games (which I hope he doesn't).

Fake turf toe or something....:) He's just not ready compared to who's in front of him and that's before McC. With Edwards last year, we needed him. We just don't need Melson given the make up this year. At minimum, he's gaining some experience...that just might be the maximum too.

Vanzagger
12-11-2014, 11:07 AM
The Cougs played their best game of the year. They made some tough shots and did well from 3. On a neutral court I take a 15 pt win every time. Kentucky was trailing at half yesterday.

What I'm trying to say is our guard play was awesome yesterday. Who cares if GBJ and Pangos combined for 2 pts. We got 11 other guys who can score. Build it for March.

gonzagafan62
12-11-2014, 11:09 AM
The Cougs played their best game of the year. They made some tough shots and did well from 3. On a neutral court I take a 15 pt win every time. Kentucky was trailing at half yesterday.

What I'm trying to say is our guard play was awesome yesterday. Who cares if GBJ and Pangos combined for 2 pts. We got 11 other guys who can score. Build it for March.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXDo4dL7SU

WallaWallaZag
12-11-2014, 11:12 AM
agree cougs played better than they have, but zag defense still gave up too many layups and wide open threes...imo, long term it's better for defense to remain constant and offense to come and go. wiltjer is an offensive force but he needs to step up his defense...sabonis has looked like a freshman on d lately as well.

Reborn
12-11-2014, 12:40 PM
I watched the game again and (as usual) it sure looks better the second time. The Zags have so many weapons, and they showed that last night. If you don't want to double up on PK, then let him score 18 in the first half on you. Double him up, and he hands out one assist after another. He looked so good last night. And so did Wesley. He had a great game, on both ends. His D on Lacey was just awesome (and Kyle Dranginis' too). He was really moving without the ball, and PK was fining him. Sabonis also played much better in not getting into foul trouble this time. Does he ever pass the ball? I felt his defense was poor, and kept WSU in the game the second half. The Zags are NOT as good defensively when PK goes to the bench. If Mark Few want to continue to put him on the bench in the last 4 min of games; then I guess he will. The Zags played much better in the last 4 minutes last night. I know Few is looking at the Big Picture, but let's not lose another game with PK on the bench.

And Kyle Wiltjer was very very good. He had a great game, imo. He can score from so many different places on the court. I really love his game. But you all know that.

As was said by some bloggers here, WSU is always tough to beat, and they were again last night. I think it's about time that I begin to listen to those voices and stop predicting 20 pt victories against WSU. They seem to always play their best game against us, and if you think about it; so do most teams. And yet, the Zags were up by 18 with 40 seconds to go and WSU hits a 3. So what? Zags win by 15. I thought it was a real good win, taking the next step toward March. And now they prepare for UCLA.

Go Zags!!!

seacatfan
12-11-2014, 01:09 PM
I'd like to see Karno stay in late in games UNTIL teams start going to hack-a-PK. No need to take him out in anticipation of something that maybe wasn't going to happen. His presence in the key on both ends of the floor is not replaceable by any other Zag.

gonzagafan62
12-11-2014, 01:11 PM
I'd like to see Karno stay in late in games UNTIL teams start going to hack-a-PK. No need to take him out in anticipation of something that maybe wasn't going to happen. His presence in the key on both ends of the floor is not replaceable by any other Zag.

Yeah but if you start thinking in that mode, you usually get burned.

seacatfan
12-11-2014, 01:21 PM
Well it depends on situation. A 2 point lead with under a minute to go is a bit different than up double digits with 3 1/2 minutes on the clock. If you have a bit of a margin and the opponent fouls Karno intentionally, then you can get him out. His presence in the key on D is worth something isn't it? Neither Sabonis or Wiltjer can effect the other team inside the way he does.

gonzagafan62
12-11-2014, 01:43 PM
Well it depends on situation. A 2 point lead with under a minute to go is a bit different than up double digits with 3 1/2 minutes on the clock. If you have a bit of a margin and the opponent fouls Karno intentionally, then you can get him out. His presence in the key on D is worth something isn't it? Neither Sabonis or Wiltjer can effect the other team inside the way he does.

Yeah, I see what you are saying but even a 12 point lead with 3:30 on the clock is not safe against a good team. I would PREFER Karnowski on the floor, but depending on the situation (how they have looked in the game up to that point....) I would want one of the other two on the court.

vs Georgia..... just wanted to survive...
vs. St Johns..... screamed at my TV to get Wiltjer off the court. Finally did. Knew if it was a free throw game at the end, we would pull it out.
vs Arizona....... screamed bloody murder to get Sabonis off the court, mostly of how he did that game... he didn't play terrible, just made some mistakes. I understand its a learning process and maybe few was experimenting but gollllllly........
vs Washington State: Wanted Pangos out, Few did, and only brought him back in the game with little time left.

Its really just about situations, and I agree... but if we are talking about a chance in the tournament with a few minutes left and they are about to think about attacking PK, get him out... We saw this against Okie State last year..... should have pulled PK sooner. Luckily we still won. You just can't take chances in March like that. Gotta have your skill guys in, yes, but also have to be smart as well and get the free throw shooting guys in.

Zagger
12-11-2014, 02:13 PM
The Cougs played their best game of the year. They made some tough shots and did well from 3. On a neutral court I take a 15 pt win every time. Kentucky was trailing at half yesterday.
What I'm trying to say is our guard play was awesome yesterday. Who cares if GBJ and Pangos combined for 2 pts. We got 11 other guys who can score. Build it for March.


agree cougs played better than they have, but zag defense still gave up too many layups and wide open threes...imo, long term it's better for defense to remain constant and offense to come and go. wiltjer is an offensive force but he needs to step up his defense...sabonis has looked like a freshman on d lately as well.

Agree with both of you. Cougs played well on O and made some pretty tough shots. Some Zags suffered on O but Coug D was pretty good - especially beyond the arc. I expected better D from the Zags + better O from P&B (in the manner of scoring). Not only do we have our 'hands' full with so many Zags to consider I'll bet Few's pretty darn busy with who to play when, etc. (more so than past seasons). There's such a GREAT MIX of talent this season. I think it'll take a few more games for this bunch to 'fit' as nicely as I'll bet they are going to. Add in EM and getting JP back and WOW! As was certainly shown last night - a team can shut down P&B and still get whacked by the Zags. If a team can shut down say DS & PK and even another Zag - take your pick, they're going to get whacked by others of the pack.

The UCLA game, to me, will be a very significant game. From what I'm seeing of this bunch of Zags - Zags beat UCLA. By how much? I really think that depends more on Zag D than O at this point. I feel that good D will put the Bruins on their heels and stymie UCLA O. In turn, good D by the Zags will give the Zags more confidence to show off a good O.

Go Zags! Kick the tar out of UCLA!

Reborn
12-11-2014, 04:05 PM
It was nice seeing Ernie Kent coaching again. I wish him the best at WSU. I hope he turns that program around. I'd like to see the Cougars back on top of the PAC 12.

sittingon50
12-16-2014, 09:01 AM
Agreed. Especially about Draino...the kid plays tough and looks comfortable out there. I'd like to see KD give KP his blow.....KD is also a pretty athletic kid.

I think we had 3 guys with 20 or more points? That doesn't happen very often....on to UCLA!

A little late here, 77:

12-12-09 Battle in Seattle:

Elias Harris 28
Rob Sacre 23
Demitri Goodson 22