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Hooray4Daye&Gray
12-08-2014, 05:01 PM
Mark Few did not lose this game because of a bad substitution.

Byron Wesley did not lose this game because of missed free throws.

Domas Sabonis did not lose this game because of bad defense.

Kevin Pangos did not lose this game because he was tired.

The refs did not cost us this game because of a missed call.

Gonzaga lost this game because it has a huge problem with shedding its underdog mentality and having the confidence to know it can overcome adversity late in a big game.

Unfortunately, this problem is only getting worse, for two reasons.

1. The more games that Gonzaga blows late, the more it creeps into their mindset that they are destined to lose these games.

2. The "what a great loss"/"good effort by our boys!"/"wow we almost beat a top 10 team even though we're also supposed to be a top ten team"/"this will be a great learning tool" attitudes of the fanbase, the city of Spokane, and even the coaching staff at times is causing this problem to grow by reinforcing that losing close games is all we can ever ask for here at lil ol' Gonzaga!

It's time to stop celebrating close losses. If you want Gonzaga to get some respect and stop being treated like a Cinderella, then act like it. Act like winners, and the team will start winning. Expect wins, and the players will have the expectation that they will win.

Gonzaga should have beat Arizona on Saturday. They were up by 6 with less than 100 seconds to go. Just because we're all Gonzaga fans doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize that it was a horrible choke job just like we'd all be able to identify that being a choke job by any other team in the country.

Grow up, Gonzaga. It's time to be a big boy.

Grow up, Gonzaga fans. It's time to treat our team like we're one of the big boys.

gbnyba17
12-08-2014, 05:13 PM
Great post, I agree with everything you say. While I acknowledge we are not on the same level as the elites in college basketball (kentucky, duke, kansas, etc) because we don't have the same resources and never will, we can start winning like them if we can learn to get over the problem which you so clearly described. My non-zag brother was more upset about the AZ loss than I was and this was exactly what he echoed i.e. that we need to learn to how to win games like this. As he pointed out, we have the ligh level recruits this year in Wesley, Wiltjer, we have high level freshman this year, and have our usual high level international studs. So why are we still losing big games when we have late games and outplay the opponent for 38 minutes? I believe the only difference is we don't know how to win these type of games and agree with you that it's an attitude thing.

Well said H4DG.

Zagdawg
12-08-2014, 05:17 PM
Lol .....that's all folks.

RenoZag
12-08-2014, 05:24 PM
It's time to stop celebrating close losses. If you want Gonzaga to get some respect and stop being treated like a Cinderella, then act like it. Act like winners, and the team will start winning. Expect wins, and the players will have the expectation that they will win.

so says the same joker who said fans who supported David Stockton were "morons" who lacked credibility. . .LINK (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?38622-2-18-2012-GU-San-Francisco-Game-Thread&p=750056#post750056)

Find another pulpit, Elmer Gantry.

gonzagafan62
12-08-2014, 05:37 PM
so says the same joker who said fans who supported David Stockton were "morons" who lacked credibility. . .LINK (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?38622-2-18-2012-GU-San-Francisco-Game-Thread&p=750056#post750056)

Find another pulpit, Elmer Gantry.
+1

DixieZag
12-08-2014, 06:05 PM
Big games like Oklahoma State last year in the first round?

Amazing, since the moment the pairings were announced, the announcers began talking about an Ok State game against AZ. Of course, those blowouts are long forgotten b/c all wins are expected. It's just the losses are the focus.

Interesting that this post is based upon the fact that Sabonis had someone tackle him to prevent him from catching the RB and putting it back in, KW's shot was just off. Either of those don't happen and your theory goes down the drain, Neither of those happened b/c the team "expected to lose."

My statement comes from a guy who believed the Memphis loss last year was due to the team playing tight and "not to lose" in the last 5 minutes - so it's not like I just knee jerk deny it.

I will deny it when I see a team that went full on, aggressively, and got clipped at the end by a team that some describe as the best defensive team in the country, playing desperate on their home floor.

maynard g krebs
12-08-2014, 07:08 PM
Okay, I'll be the whiner/loser who complains about the refs. In the last few minutes I saw 4 or 5 shoves in the back by Arizona on rebounds that weren't called, not just the one on Sabonis with 1.4.

Zags had 7 turnovers in the first 36 minutes and 6 in the last 8, or something like that. I attribute that as much to uncalled reaches/bumps as to fatigue.

The above are subjective, but when there are that many of those things late, and many of them are obvious on a 32 inch tv, I don't get why it's taboo to mention them.

Welsley's drive from the left side should have been the lead plus a free throw. Head and shoulders past a defender who didn't look set when Wes started up; shocking call; worthy of Duke in Cameron.

Sabonis' dbl dribble, the initial bounce wasn't intended as a dribble; he was corralling a loose ball. I've seen the same a million times without a dbl dribble called. He looked shocked. Though he shouldn't have given them the opportunity to call it, maybe, but he just did on reflex what he's certainly done before.

You have to be perfect to win against a marquee team on the road, because you start with an inherent deficit. The team played great; well enough to win.

And that's all anybody but a troll could ask.

And yes, there were a few pro-Zag calls; enough for plausible deniability.

Reborn
12-08-2014, 07:51 PM
Mark Few did not lose this game because of a bad substitution.

Byron Wesley did not lose this game because of missed free throws.

Domas Sabonis did not lose this game because of bad defense.

Kevin Pangos did not lose this game because he was tired.

The refs did not cost us this game because of a missed call.

Gonzaga lost this game because it has a huge problem with shedding its underdog mentality and having the confidence to know it can overcome adversity late in a big game.

Unfortunately, this problem is only getting worse, for two reasons.

1. The more games that Gonzaga blows late, the more it creeps into their mindset that they are destined to lose these games.

2. The "what a great loss"/"good effort by our boys!"/"wow we almost beat a top 10 team even though we're also supposed to be a top ten team"/"this will be a great learning tool" attitudes of the fanbase, the city of Spokane, and even the coaching staff at times is causing this problem to grow by reinforcing that losing close games is all we can ever ask for here at lil ol' Gonzaga!

It's time to stop celebrating close losses. If you want Gonzaga to get some respect and stop being treated like a Cinderella, then act like it. Act like winners, and the team will start winning. Expect wins, and the players will have the expectation that they will win.

Gonzaga should have beat Arizona on Saturday. They were up by 6 with less than 100 seconds to go. Just because we're all Gonzaga fans doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize that it was a horrible choke job just like we'd all be able to identify that being a choke job by any other team in the country.

Grow up, Gonzaga. It's time to be a big boy.

Grow up, Gonzaga fans. It's time to treat our team like we're one of the big boys.

I nominate this for the worst post ever award.

You do have a voice here. We read your blog and laugh. You need to do some research fellow GU fan before you post your so called "truths." Here is what you need to research. 1. Have the Zags ever won close games? How many? Have other top 10 teams lost close games? How many? No one likes to lose. But there is a huge difference between fact and opinions. You could begin by practicing a little humility and admit you don't have the truth any more then any other fans. A lot of fans who blog here certainly do a lot more research then you have, and that is just to try to back up there opinions. My opinion of what I think you want to really say about the Zags, you and your friend, is that they are a bunch of chokers. You try to hide your attitude, but it sits there naked to any real fan. Get real....and maybe more people will listen to you. And I pray to God above that you are no Psych major or a counselor. These guys are warriors, and they bleed for their school and fans, so please expect to be called out when you call the Real Zags chokers. Or try to persuade us that they have some kind of mental problem. Is your solution to hire a therapist (possibly you) to help them overcome this stigma that they may have inherited from their past teammates? I'm trying to add a little humor to such a pathetic post. hahahahaha

Go Zags!!!

bigblahla
12-08-2014, 08:01 PM
Okay, I'll be the whiner/loser who complains about the refs. In the last few minutes I saw 4 or 5 shoves in the back by Arizona on rebounds that weren't called, not just the one on Sabonis with 1.4.

Zags had 7 turnovers in the first 36 minutes and 6 in the last 8, or something like that. I attribute that as much to uncalled reaches/bumps as to fatigue.

The above are subjective, but when there are that many of those things late, and many of them are obvious on a 32 inch tv, I don't get why it's taboo to mention them.

Welsley's drive from the left side should have been the lead plus a free throw. Head and shoulders past a defender who didn't look set when Wes started up; shocking call; worthy of Duke in Cameron.

Sabonis' dbl dribble, the initial bounce wasn't intended as a dribble; he was corralling a loose ball. I've seen the same a million times without a dbl dribble called. He looked shocked. Though he shouldn't have given them the opportunity to call it, maybe, but he just did on reflex what he's certainly done before.

You have to be perfect to win against a marquee team on the road, because you start with an inherent deficit. The team played great; well enough to win.

And that's all anybody but a troll could ask.

And yes, there were a few pro-Zag calls; enough for plausible deniability.

Thanks Maynard, I needed that.

Go!! Zags!!!

zagfan24
12-08-2014, 08:21 PM
Mark Few did not lose this game because of a bad substitution.

Byron Wesley did not lose this game because of missed free throws.

Domas Sabonis did not lose this game because of bad defense.

Kevin Pangos did not lose this game because he was tired.

The refs did not cost us this game because of a missed call.

Gonzaga lost this game because it has a huge problem with shedding its underdog mentality and having the confidence to know it can overcome adversity late in a big game.

Unfortunately, this problem is only getting worse, for two reasons.

1. The more games that Gonzaga blows late, the more it creeps into their mindset that they are destined to lose these games.

2. The "what a great loss"/"good effort by our boys!"/"wow we almost beat a top 10 team even though we're also supposed to be a top ten team"/"this will be a great learning tool" attitudes of the fanbase, the city of Spokane, and even the coaching staff at times is causing this problem to grow by reinforcing that losing close games is all we can ever ask for here at lil ol' Gonzaga!

It's time to stop celebrating close losses. If you want Gonzaga to get some respect and stop being treated like a Cinderella, then act like it. Act like winners, and the team will start winning. Expect wins, and the players will have the expectation that they will win.

Gonzaga should have beat Arizona on Saturday. They were up by 6 with less than 100 seconds to go. Just because we're all Gonzaga fans doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize that it was a horrible choke job just like we'd all be able to identify that being a choke job by any other team in the country.

Grow up, Gonzaga. It's time to be a big boy.

Grow up, Gonzaga fans. It's time to treat our team like we're one of the big boys.

Empty, meaningless, condescending platitudes. Even if your the problems you state were true, your "solutions" lack any tangible meaning.

Zags11
12-08-2014, 08:37 PM
We lost 1 seed out west. It wasnt a bad loss by any stretch but disappointing loss because of the end.

Ekrub
12-08-2014, 08:56 PM
We lost 1 seed out west. It wasnt a bad loss by any stretch but disappointing loss because of the end.

We will see how it plays out. If we can go undefeated from here on out we still have a shot at the number one seed. AZ could drop a couple and I don't think they will knock us for losing in OT on their floor. I know they are looking at the resume and not results but I think they might factor in that's a win in a neutral court

Vanzagger
12-08-2014, 09:02 PM
The World wants to see us play Tucky for the marbles. Let's take it a step further and run them out of the building.

Zags11
12-08-2014, 10:20 PM
We will see how it plays out. If we can go undefeated from here on out we still have a shot at the number one seed. AZ could drop a couple and I don't think they will knock us for losing in OT on their floor. I know they are looking at the resume and not results but I think they might factor in that's a win in a neutral court

I hope so. That game has a march madness tournament feel to it.

Zag Man
12-08-2014, 10:27 PM
I nominate this for the worst post ever award.

I second the motion!

I was at the Oklahoma State basketball game in Stillwater and the crowd was electric!! It was a big-time game on national television and the game went down to the wire. Gonzaga won that game with a lot of guts in a very physical game. The Zags overcame extreme adversity to win that game. True, we lost that game with Arizona, but I sincerely believe that the Wildcats are extremely thankful that they won that game. The Zags played one of the best teams in the nation on THEIR home court and we really should have won. On a neutral court, I would love to see us play Arizona again!

acehunter
12-08-2014, 10:43 PM
What cost the game was the Arizona player climbing right over Sabonis' back and knocking the ball out of bounds. Sabonis would have had a 2ft shot to win it, or free throws for the win. Ref is standing five feet away and doesn't see/make the call?? Few is too much of a gentleman to make it an issue which is unfortunate.

Angelo Roncalli
12-08-2014, 10:53 PM
What cost the game was the Arizona player climbing right over Sabonis' back and knocking the ball out of bounds. Sabonis would have had a 2ft shot to win it, or free throws for the win. Ref is standing five feet away and doesn't see/make the call?? Few is too much of a gentleman to make it an issue which is unfortunate.

How'd that making a big issue out of unfavorable calls thing work out for Chip Kelly yesterday?

TexasZag
12-09-2014, 01:56 AM
How'd that making a big issue out of unfavorable calls thing work out for Chip Kelly yesterday?

Blown calls need to be discussed. Maybe not so much here, but somewhere. And I know it doesn't change the result, but it can be a learning tool for the refs. I know other officiating groups do review the performance of their officials so as to try to improve performance/reduce bad calls down the road. So by all means, get the discussion out there. And venting about them is therapeutic for fans.

TexasZag
12-09-2014, 02:04 AM
1. The more games that Gonzaga blows late, the more it creeps into their mindset that they are destined to lose these games.

2. The "what a great loss"/"good effort by our boys!"/"wow we almost beat a top 10 team even though we're also supposed to be a top ten team"/"this will be a great learning tool" attitudes of the fanbase, the city of Spokane, and even the coaching staff at times is causing this problem to grow by reinforcing that losing close games is all we can ever ask for here at lil ol' Gonzaga!

It's time to stop celebrating close losses. If you want Gonzaga to get some respect and stop being treated like a Cinderella, then act like it. Act like winners, and the team will start winning. Expect wins, and the players will have the expectation that they will win.


You know nothing about motivation. And I seriously doubt that the Zags' expectations as a team are shaped in any way by what people post on these forums, especially the likes of this @#%&.

Get real.

Zagger
12-09-2014, 03:40 AM
I now vow to heed thread ratings.

cjm720
12-09-2014, 07:11 AM
Or we faced one of the best defensive teams in the country on their court.

Generally speaking, lame post but I love my team, win or lose, and understand how the game works, so I just don't get posts like this. #trendingup #gozags



Mark Few did not lose this game because of a bad substitution.

Byron Wesley did not lose this game because of missed free throws.

Domas Sabonis did not lose this game because of bad defense.

Kevin Pangos did not lose this game because he was tired.

The refs did not cost us this game because of a missed call.

Gonzaga lost this game because it has a huge problem with shedding its underdog mentality and having the confidence to know it can overcome adversity late in a big game.

Unfortunately, this problem is only getting worse, for two reasons.

1. The more games that Gonzaga blows late, the more it creeps into their mindset that they are destined to lose these games.

2. The "what a great loss"/"good effort by our boys!"/"wow we almost beat a top 10 team even though we're also supposed to be a top ten team"/"this will be a great learning tool" attitudes of the fanbase, the city of Spokane, and even the coaching staff at times is causing this problem to grow by reinforcing that losing close games is all we can ever ask for here at lil ol' Gonzaga!

It's time to stop celebrating close losses. If you want Gonzaga to get some respect and stop being treated like a Cinderella, then act like it. Act like winners, and the team will start winning. Expect wins, and the players will have the expectation that they will win.

Gonzaga should have beat Arizona on Saturday. They were up by 6 with less than 100 seconds to go. Just because we're all Gonzaga fans doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize that it was a horrible choke job just like we'd all be able to identify that being a choke job by any other team in the country.

Grow up, Gonzaga. It's time to be a big boy.

Grow up, Gonzaga fans. It's time to treat our team like we're one of the big boys.

titopoet
12-09-2014, 07:25 AM
Mark Few did not lose this game because of a bad substitution.

Byron Wesley did not lose this game because of missed free throws.

Domas Sabonis did not lose this game because of bad defense.

Kevin Pangos did not lose this game because he was tired.

The refs did not cost us this game because of a missed call.

Gonzaga lost this game because it has a huge problem with shedding its underdog mentality and having the confidence to know it can overcome adversity late in a big game.

Unfortunately, this problem is only getting worse, for two reasons.

1. The more games that Gonzaga blows late, the more it creeps into their mindset that they are destined to lose these games.

2. The "what a great loss"/"good effort by our boys!"/"wow we almost beat a top 10 team even though we're also supposed to be a top ten team"/"this will be a great learning tool" attitudes of the fanbase, the city of Spokane, and even the coaching staff at times is causing this problem to grow by reinforcing that losing close games is all we can ever ask for here at lil ol' Gonzaga!

It's time to stop celebrating close losses. If you want Gonzaga to get some respect and stop being treated like a Cinderella, then act like it. Act like winners, and the team will start winning. Expect wins, and the players will have the expectation that they will win.

Gonzaga should have beat Arizona on Saturday. They were up by 6 with less than 100 seconds to go. Just because we're all Gonzaga fans doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize that it was a horrible choke job just like we'd all be able to identify that being a choke job by any other team in the country.

Grow up, Gonzaga. It's time to be a big boy.

Grow up, Gonzaga fans. It's time to treat our team like we're one of the big boys.

Big Boys think about the future not the past. They learn from the past, but not dominated by the past. How do you know your are dominated by the past? When words like choke are used. Enough said, learn grow and dominate Wazzu.

ZagLawGrad
12-09-2014, 07:44 AM
Got no problem with the OP speaking his mind.

Might have even made a couple of points somewhere in there.

scrooner
12-09-2014, 08:42 AM
And yes, there were a few pro-Zag calls; enough for plausible deniability.

My tinfoil conspiracy theory is that the refs (knowingly or uknowingly) give the visiting team extra calls early in the game, so that when it's late in the game and they give extra calls to the home team, it looks balanced in the end. When we got a few terrible calls our way early in this game, I just KNEW it would balance out at the wrong time.

bartruff1
12-09-2014, 08:58 AM
Speaking for myself...I would never watch a game of any sort if I thought it was fixed..

gonzagafan62
12-09-2014, 09:03 AM
Speaking for myself...I would never watch a game of any sort if I thought it was fixed..

Me either.

scott257
12-09-2014, 09:31 AM
I second the motion!

I was at the Oklahoma State basketball game in Stillwater and the crowd was electric!! It was a big-time game on national television and the game went down to the wire. Gonzaga won that game with a lot of guts in a very physical game. The Zags overcame extreme adversity to win that game. True, we lost that game with Arizona, but I sincerely believe that the Wildcats are extremely thankful that they won that game. The Zags played one of the best teams in the nation on THEIR home court and we really should have won. On a neutral court, I would love to see us play Arizona again!

I agree completely. I was at that Oklahoma State game too. I was just watching this game over again and there were a few things that stood out to me. First is that Karnowski is significantly better than Tarczewski. Shem needs to take some acting lessons from Sacre though as Tarczewski was shoving him frequently and getting away with it. On two occasions I saw Shem Raise the issue with the officials and just following the second complaint they did call a foul on Tarczewski. Secondly, we missed quite a few open threes (any one of which could have made a difference in the outcome). Third, Mark Few was investing a lot of time on Sabonis (teaching). It really made me think that from a teaching perspective, this game may pay off significantly later in the year. Few coached this game hard and wanted to win it, but I do think he knows that for the entire team, at this point in the season a major focus has to be placed on making the team better even if he is playing someone when the talking head for ESPN disagrees with his choices.

SWZag
12-09-2014, 09:33 AM
so says the same joker who said fans who supported David Stockton were "morons" who lacked credibility. . .LINK (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?38622-2-18-2012-GU-San-Francisco-Game-Thread&p=750056#post750056)

Find another pulpit, Elmer Gantry.

:lmao:

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 09:40 AM
My tinfoil conspiracy theory is that the refs (knowingly or uknowingly) give the visiting team extra calls early in the game, so that when it's late in the game and they give extra calls to the home team, it looks balanced in the end. When we got a few terrible calls our way early in this game, I just KNEW it would balance out at the wrong time.

You know I've been really hard on the refs this year, Kenpom says it will be brutal because the trending stats suggest there will be more calls, but mainly they are calling things that slow the game down and make it painful to watch, no momentum/etc...

Now when I take my tinfoil off and stand back a bit I have to admit that the refs have a very tough job...they are under a microscope (15,000 in McKale, millions more on TV) on a scale that no one could possibly ever get right for everyone watching...

Add to that they are calling some fouls based on an "interpretation" of NCAA rules...the charge call is really a good example of this, if it's not clear it usually ends up as a blocking foul...and then there's the issue of "the angle" of your view...consider you are running down the court chasing highly athletic guys on adrenalin who are usually less than half your age, but every fan expects you to be right there on top of the call with the perfect angle to make the perfect call under the perfect interpretation of the rules...

During the holiday tournaments the refs were quite bad on almost all the games I watched...but as I consider they were generally calling from different conferences and implementing all the new rules/interpretations the NCAA had handed down from last season...

I've watched the game three times now...and the refs actually get a huge percentage right...there is always going to be maybe 10% that is wrong, thats just human nature, but when you consider all the pressure to perform and the conditions they play under I wonder why anyone in their right mind would even be a ref, it's a god sized task and for the most part they get it right...

I also consider that IF refs call a certain percentage one way or another at certain times in the game due to perceptions of "unevenness" that is really implying a huge amount of prophetic ability to some rather human individuals...

I think they just simply call the game in the moment...beyond that (and especially to the point about games being rigged) it would take a seriously GOOD ref to pull off calling a game in intentional favor for a team in such a way as to get away with it...I don't think any of them are that good.

mobetta
12-09-2014, 10:04 AM
I really loved this game. Many of our guys surely had the previous loss in their minds when they stepped on the floor, the new guys surely knew all about it. Nevertheless, we outplayed the number three team in the country for most of the game, despite being cold from beyond the three point line. We were the team that entered the game with a three point reputation. The first 37 minutes should give our team a tremendous sense of confidence. Gonzaga IS the better team. Now, we know it. The meltdown during the last three minutes is a concern, but one that we have 3 months to wipe away. We've got 20 or so more games to to get focused and and to peak at the right time. The tournament is always about peaking at the right time. Imagine the mindset of AZ right now. They are probably all puffed up and over confident. Maybe their meltdown will come during the tournament? Bobby Knight's comment about having film to use as training material applies here too. Our coaching staff will have ample opportunity to remind and teach. Our guys will be hungry for the next important game. AZ may be over confident. Do you want a perfect season? Heck, how about a final four appearance? A national championship? The longer we go without a loss, the more stressful it will become. What if our meltdown had occurred against San Francisco in the WCC tourney? I'd rather have this one against AZ, especially after handling them fairly easily for the first 37 minutes. I feel good about the Zags right now. I think this is going to be our year.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 10:13 AM
I really loved this game. Many of our guys surely had the previous loss in their minds when they stepped on the floor, the new guys surely knew all about it. Nevertheless, we outplayed the number three team in the country for most of the game, despite being cold from beyond the three point line. We were the team that entered the game with a three point reputation. The first 37 minutes should give our team a tremendous sense of confidence. Gonzaga IS the better team. Now, we know it. The meltdown during the last three minutes is a concern, but one that we have 3 months to wipe away. We've got 20 or so more games to to get focused and and to peak at the right time. The tournament is always about peaking at the right time. Imagine the mindset of AZ right now. They are probably all puffed up and over confident. Maybe their meltdown will come during the tournament? Bobby Knight's comment about having film to use as training material applies here too. Our coaching staff will have ample opportunity to remind and teach. Our guys will be hungry for the next important game. AZ may be over confident. Do you want a perfect season? Heck, how about a final four appearance? A national championship? The longer we go without a loss, the more stressful it will become. What if our meltdown had occurred against San Francisco in the WCC tourney? I'd rather have this one against AZ, especially after handling them fairly easily for the first 37 minutes. I feel good about the Zags right now. I think this is going to be our year.

You really do not know Miller very well or Az to make that kind of assumption, I can promise you they are not all "puffed up" as Miller takes every game seriously, even the cupcake game we play tonite he will be extremely hard on them to play tough defense and sharpen the offense...one thing you cannot afford when you recruit at Az's level is getting cocky because the arrogance translates into player selfishness with the NBA hopefuls...there is absolutely no strutting around on the campus over this win that they squeaked out...heck a little bit of strutting might have made a difference when we schooled Duke in the tournament a few years ago, but it was not allowed...everyone who was at the game or watching the game saw two very good teams play and like Miller himself said there was no loser in that game...

gonzagafan62
12-09-2014, 10:24 AM
You really do not know Miller very well or Az to make that kind of assumption, I can promise you they are not all "puffed up" as Miller takes every game seriously, even the cupcake game we play tonite he will be extremely hard on them to play tough defense and sharpen the offense...one thing you cannot afford when you recruit at Az's level is getting cocky because the arrogance translates into player selfishness with the NBA hopefuls...there is absolutely no strutting around on the campus over this win that they squeaked out...heck a little bit of strutting might have made a difference when we schooled Duke in the tournament a few years ago, but it was not allowed...everyone who was at the game or watching the game saw two very good teams play and like Miller himself said there was no loser in that game...

Exactly. Again. I really like your posts Temp. You just speak the truth. This whole post is 100% truth. I don't really like Sean Miller, but I have mad respect for his coaching skills and motivation and recruiting. Miller wants to propel this group to the next level. Arizona is a deadly team. They will suffocate you on defense. Stems from the coach. I don't necessarily like how he acts but that's not my business. Guy can coach and will be in the Final Four sooner rather than later. Miller is the man. I would not be saying anything negative about Arizona or their coaching staff at all. They take everything seriously, just like Temp said. I watched their game vs Gardner Webb, when they were down. Miller always has a way to motivate his players.

Always.

Don't drink the kool aid too much kid. A healthy dose of kool aid never hurts, but when you go overboard, its like drinking too much tequila. You start going overboard on everything.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 10:38 AM
Exactly. Again. I really like your posts Temp. You just speak the truth. This whole post is 100% truth. I don't really like Sean Miller, but I have mad respect for his coaching skills and motivation and recruiting. Miller wants to propel this group to the next level. Arizona is a deadly team. They will suffocate you on defense. Stems from the coach. I don't necessarily like how he acts but that's not my business. Guy can coach and will be in the Final Four sooner rather than later. Miller is the man. I would not be saying anything negative about Arizona or their coaching staff at all. They take everything seriously, just like Temp said. I watched their game vs Gardner Webb, when they were down. Miller always has a way to motivate his players.

Always.

Don't drink the kool aid too much kid. A healthy dose of kool aid never hurts, but when you go overboard, its like drinking too much tequila. You start going overboard on everything.

Miller can be hard to read if you watch him on the court, he is ALWAYS giving the refs crap and always yelling at his guys, but off the court I have NEVER not once heard him even hint at strutting around and he exudes respect for every team he plays...I can almost predict what he will say tonite after the game against what is really a cupcake team, he will say "They are a very good team with an excellent coach"...yes he can appear to be a bit of jerk on the court, but it is never directed at the opponent it is always the refs and when I watched the end of the Zag game I saw something completely different than most Zag fans saw, most Gonzaga comments were about him not giving props to the Zags but instead ragging on his teams bad performance (I am talking about the short interview right after the game on the court) what I saw was a very concerned Miller being distracted and starring down his team to make sure there was no undue strutting or "extra-curricular" activity going on on the court, especially in regards to his team and the fans not showing respect for you guys...I am part of a Az forum and get some inside the locker-room info and I can absolutely assure you he has zero tolerance for punkish strutting and improper celebration...he knows they are kids but he demands respect and discipline form his team at all times. He makes sure they understand that each one of them could have missed that free throw themselves and there is no place for strutting or taunting...

The Pac-12 has generally moved away from that kind of garbage (Like UCLA taunting Steve Kerr after his father was killed)..there are still some very "dickish" fans in every school but for the most part Az walks around with a bulls-eye painted on i's back and he knows that...he is hard but respectful.

gonzagafan62
12-09-2014, 10:44 AM
Miller can be hard to read if you watch him on the court, he is ALWAYS giving the refs crap and always yelling at his guys, but off the court I have NEVER not once heard him even hint at strutting around and he exudes respect for every team he plays...I can almost predict what he will say tonite after the game against what is really a cupcake team, he will say "They are a very good team with an excellent coach"...yes he can appear to be a bit of jerk on the court, but it is never directed at the opponent it is always the refs and when I watched the end of the Zag game I saw something completely different than most Zag fans saw, most Gonzaga comments were about him not giving props to the Zags but instead ragging on his teams bad performance (I am talking about the short interview right after the game on the court) what I saw was a very concerned Miller being distracted and starring down his team to make sure there was no undue strutting or "extra-curricular" activity going on on the court, especially in regards to his team and the fans not showing respect for you guys...I am part of a Az forum and get some inside the locker-room info and I can absolutely assure you he has zero tolerance for punkish strutting and improper celebration...he knows they are kids but he demands respect and discipline form his team at all times. He makes sure they understand that each one of them could have missed that free throw themselves and there is no place for strutting or taunting...

The Pac-12 has generally moved away from that kind of garbage (Like UCLA taunting Steve Kerr after his father was killed)..there are still some very "dickish" fans in every school but for the most part Az walks around with a bulls-eye painted on i's back and he knows that...he is hard but respectful.

Exactly. I never got the feel that Miller was trying to backlash on Gonzaga or not give us credit. It seemed as though he was very concerned about Gonzaga most of the game. Like you said he has no tolerance for on the court scuffles or anything ... I have noticed that as well. Right on point.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 10:56 AM
He has absolutely NO respect for the refs though...after his "He touched the ball" T and penalty (I think it cost him $25,000) AND finding out after the season that the head ref for the conference had made a joke to "T-up Miller" in the tourney comment to the other refs in pre-game meetings (who by the way was fired but no other scrutiny towards what happened, many of those refs still come to Az)...

Pac-12 has terrible refs, probably some of the worst in the country, no doubt about it...on non conference games where Miller has a say he refuses to let them in...

When you consider that one of the refs who has called more fouls against Az than any other in the Pac is also a cop in LA and gets to call UCLA games...it is easy to see why Miller is pushing ack on the refs at times...

gonzagafan62
12-09-2014, 11:02 AM
He has absolutely NO respect for the refs though...after his "He touched the ball" T and penalty (I think it cost him $25,000) AND finding out after the season that the head ref for the conference had made a joke to "T-up Miller" in the tourney comment to the other refs in pre-game meetings (who by the way was fired but no other scrutiny towards what happened, many of those refs still come to Az)...

Pac-12 has terrible refs, probably some of the worst in the country, no doubt about it...on non conference games where Miller has a say he refuses to let them in...

When you consider that one of the refs who has called more fouls against Az than any other in the Pac is also a cop in LA and gets to call UCLA games...it is easy to see why Miller is pushing ack on the refs at times...

We see bad officials all the time in the wcc... But I've only seen few get t'd up once. I don't know a ton about miller and the refs but I have seen the pac12 officials make some really terrible calls I do agree with that. A lot of bad calls.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 11:05 AM
We see bad officials all the time in the wcc... But I've only seen few get t'd up once. I don't know a ton about miller and the refs but I have seen the pac12 officials make some really terrible calls I do agree with that. A lot of bad calls.

I cannot imagine Few getting T'd up, what on earth would ever get him that riled up? He seems to be pretty even keeled and composed...it must have been something rather extreme...

FuManShoes
12-09-2014, 11:28 AM
Truth?!?!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzd40i8TfA

gonzagafan62
12-09-2014, 11:45 AM
I cannot imagine Few getting T'd up, what on earth would ever get him that riled up? He seems to be pretty even keeled and composed...it must have been something rather extreme...

It didn't look like it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNTTW0IQ5BQ

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 11:55 AM
It didn't look like it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNTTW0IQ5BQ

WTF???? Man thats almost as bad as Miller telling the ref "He touched the ball" (which he did when you look at the replay Miller was right)...Miller stands up and pisses on the line that Few crossed every freaking game, that call makes no sense whatsoever...and there are NUMEROUS coaches who cross it every game as well...I can almost guarantee Few did not use an expletive, thats juts not like him...MIller would have gotten ejected for his response AFTER a T like that, kudos to Few for regaining his composure...

There needs to be a check and balance system for refs making "control the game by T, or control the coach by T" calls...a fine or something if review shows it was unwarranted...

Did anyone ever find out why he was T'd?

seacatfan
12-09-2014, 12:46 PM
First is that Karnowski is significantly better than Tarczewski.

Karno dominated Zeus in the Tourney game in March. He was well on his way to doing it again on Saturday. But then something odd happened. Zeus stepped it up big in the 2nd half and pretty much evened up the matchup. Karno had 10 pts and 11 rebs. Zeus had 11 and 7, with 9 pts after halftime. The Zags probably should have gone to Karno more in the 2nd half, but the stat line is close to a wash. I know stats don't always tell the whole story, but you do have to admit Zeus had an impact on the 2nd half of the game.

mobetta
12-09-2014, 04:21 PM
You really do not know Miller very well or Az to make that kind of assumption, I can promise you they are not all "puffed up" as Miller takes every game seriously, even the cupcake game we play tonite he will be extremely hard on them to play tough defense and sharpen the offense...one thing you cannot afford when you recruit at Az's level is getting cocky because the arrogance translates into player selfishness with the NBA hopefuls...there is absolutely no strutting around on the campus over this win that they squeaked out...heck a little bit of strutting might have made a difference when we schooled Duke in the tournament a few years ago, but it was not allowed...everyone who was at the game or watching the game saw two very good teams play and like Miller himself said there was no loser in that game...

My post was about the Zags, but you found one comment about the Wildcats that was not meant to address them as a team or their coach, simply that they won the game and it could be possible that winning this game could go to their heads, as opposed to how our meltdown could demoralize our team. Well, your comments about Miller ring true and I find it believable that he will contain any celebrations. Good response. However, they did get outplayed for 37 minutes, so he'd be wise to control any strutting. In general, I think Miller appears to be a quality coach, but I am a bit suspicious about a possible disconnect between the quality of his recruits and how the resulting play of his teams may not match up. Could he be depending upon their athleticism too much and not stressing team play, ball movement and finding the best shots? (I do love their defense, of course.) Maybe this is the year for AZ, too. I'd really like to meet up again this year in March.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 04:33 PM
My post was about the Zags, but you found one comment about the Wildcats that was not meant to address them as a team or their coach, simply that they won the game and it could be possible that winning this game could go to their heads, as opposed to how our meltdown could demoralize our team. Well, your comments about Miller ring true and I find it believable that he will contain any celebrations. Good response. However, they did get outplayed for 37 minutes, so he'd be wise to control any strutting. In general, I think Miller appears to be a quality coach, but I am a bit suspicious about a possible disconnect between the quality of his recruits and how the resulting play of his teams may not match up. Could he be depending upon their athleticism too much and not stressing team play, ball movement and finding the best shots? (I do love their defense, of course.) Maybe this is the year for AZ, too. I'd really like to meet up again this year in March.

Miller does not depend on their athleticism until they play defense, he has made it clear that playing time is completely dependant upon two things, playing defense and how they show up in practice...notice Gabe York sat the bench at the end of that game and was replaced by a guy who is not as good a shooter, not as athletic, but determined to play defense...

As far as playing the big recruits he really tries to find guys that will fit in with the team he is building...Stanley had his worst game against you guys because he finally found out what Miller has been telling him all along, if you don't play defense it won't matter how good you think you are...

Miller specifically mentioned how well your players essentially schooled him and says he now has game film to point out to the guy what he has been saying to him all along.

Imagine how difficult Az seasons would be if the Zags did not school them in this game...

mobetta
12-09-2014, 04:49 PM
Miller does not depend on their athleticism until they play defense, he has made it clear that playing time is completely dependant upon two things, playing defense and how they show up in practice...notice Gabe York sat the bench at the end of that game and was replaced by a guy who is not as good a shooter, not as athletic, but determined to play defense...

As far as playing the big recruits he really tries to find guys that will fit in with the team he is building...Stanley had his worst game against you guys because he finally found out what Miller has been telling him all along, if you don't play defense it won't matter how good you think you are...

Miller specifically mentioned how well your players essentially schooled him and says he now has game film to point out to the guy what he has been saying to him all along.

Imagine how difficult Az seasons would be if the Zags did not school them in this game...

Yes, I agree, that this game should be important for AZ. Playing as a team is just as important on defense as it is on offense. Athleticism alone will not cut it when it comes to helping in the right way at the right time, switching versus fighting through screens at the right time, closing out without fouling, and so forth. These guys need to be smart too. You are describing the right coaching habits though, giving them a chance to sit on the bench and think about their mistakes is exactly right. Doing it while not alienating them is even better. Thanks for your thoughts.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-09-2014, 05:06 PM
I was very impressed with the Zags how smooth they were on offense, Zona is a smothering defense, Rondae Hollis Jefferson is really almost an NBA defensive level player now...and he had to guard all five of your starters at some point in the game...Gonzaga has a very mature core group who know how to score...

SteelZag
12-09-2014, 05:51 PM
"You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet."

Both teams will improve. A little more seasoning for Sabonis and Melson, along with the return of Perkins and the addition of McClellan should get GU running on all cylinders.