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View Full Version : The biggest surprise vs Arizona



gonzagafan62
12-06-2014, 09:54 PM
Who was the player that surprised you the most yesterday? It doesn't have to be from gonzaga either... My biggest surprise was Gary bell. Was very aggressive in the game. Made some big shots and clutch ones at that. I really like what I am seeing from him so far this season. I hope he continues his trend. Was really impressed with his defense. Draino and Wesley's defense was great too. We are a good defensive team. I am impressed. Let's beat the couga!

Mantua
12-06-2014, 10:17 PM
I'm not surprised by Gary Bell. He was the player I expected to see.

I was most surprised by Shem's play and his demeanor when he came out for the second half, ferocious. He was the player I was hoping he would be.

gonzagafan62
12-06-2014, 10:25 PM
I'm not surprised by Gary Bell. He was the player I expected to see.

I was most surprised by Shem's play and his demeanor when he came out for the second half, ferocious. He was the player I was hoping he would be.

I guess we are complete opposites than lol in the prediction thread I said karnowski would dominate tarzewscki and when e was inthe game he basically did. IMO ....

Mantua
12-06-2014, 10:40 PM
I thought he would dominate Tarzewcski but I thought that he'd be doubled with a more athletic pesky player in the mix. I didn't expect his footwork and shot to be so consistent and I wasn't expecting to see him roar. His commitment was impressive tonight.

seacatfan
12-06-2014, 11:09 PM
PK played well and definitely got the better of the center matchup in the first half. Tarczewski really stepped up his play in the 2nd half though.

jazzdelmar
12-06-2014, 11:28 PM
KP never asserted himself on the offense.

WallaWallaZag
12-07-2014, 04:31 AM
KP never asserted himself on the offense.

this was a game i really didn't think he would be able to take over based on matchups...that said, i think his tendency to defer and facilitate so far this season will hurt him in big games when the zags do need him to assert himself offensively.

re: bell -- if the zags could only get him to play this way all the time, might not even need pangos to be an alpha.

jazzdelmar
12-07-2014, 04:38 AM
this was a game i really didn't think he would be able to take over based on matchups...that said, i think his tendency to defer and facilitate so far this season will hurt him in big games when the zags do need him to assert himself offensively.

re: bell -- if the zags could only get him to play this way all the time, might not even need pangos to be an alpha.


Agree. Didn't seem to faze Few in halftime interview. Maybe that's the issue. DDD would go whole first halves without shooting, just kinda toying. But then turned it on in 2d. KP doesn't have his offensive skills so I agree bad habit.

Zagger
12-07-2014, 05:14 AM
I was surprised that Kevin didn't take more shots. At least once early on he took a hard spill - whacked his head I think. I'll have to go back and watch the taped game. He's the type of player that would be on the court even if he were dead. If he did get hurt I hope he's OK. Arizona D was good. Overall I expected the Zags to play well - especially Karno and Draino - I wasn't disappointed. I thought Melson might play more and I expected better Zag shooting. Guess I'm just plain ignorant of what to expect in an away game at a place like Arizona and against such a good Arizona team. It was one exciting game though! Definitely put last year's game in the much more distant past! Go Zags!

bartruff1
12-07-2014, 05:42 AM
Kevin is the best player at his position but I am beginning to think that Bell is the best athlete on the team...

VaBeachZAG
12-07-2014, 08:20 AM
KP never asserted himself on the offense.

I think we might have seen a lot more from Pangos if Perkins had been available to take off some of the pressure. Four different Arizona players throughout the game were stuck like glue to Pangos. When your constantly fighting through screens on defense, trying to run the team on offense and scrambling for open looks with four different guys taking turns tightly guarding you, its going to take a physical toll (even on Pangos). A rare three Pangos launched in the latter part of the second half fell short, due, in my opinion, to the fatigue factor.

CdAZagFan
12-07-2014, 08:27 AM
Biggest Surprise? For me, it was Sabonis' defense - I thought he'd make a bigger difference in this game defensively for Gonzaga. Granted, it's his first year so he needs some room to grow. Second surprise - Karnowski. I thought he'd have a good game, but love the variety of the shots he takes - including a jumper from the elbow. Wish he'd do that more often.

DixieZag
12-07-2014, 09:00 AM
I expect Gary to play like that in big games when he is healthy. We forget that in so many games he's limited to just killing himself defensively in part b/c he's not 100%.

Kevin was held to low scoring in part b/c he never had any daylight, much of it out of exhaustion. It looked to me like they were going to make someone else beat them.

Karno had a great game. It's not surprising when he has those fantastic ones. He seems to run hot and cold. Can play real good and real mediocre. This is a good sign going forward.

We have basically 2 games left in which we might be an underdog or short favorite, then Memphis but not sure they're classic Memphis. I expect Gary to be one of theguys in those games. It also looks like a 2 loss season is increasingly realistic. Not "likely" yet, but realistic.

hooter73
12-07-2014, 09:13 AM
I was surprised to finally see Bell be the player he can be.

Reborn
12-07-2014, 09:18 AM
The biggest surprise to me was our defense. Gonzaga looked tougher to me until the last 3 minutes of regulation. Bell's defense on Johnson was incredible. How can a 6'2 inch guard defend someone like Johnson? I knew Gary was tough, but man that effort yesterday was incredible. I wish he had been the guy to get the last shot instead of Pangos. Karnowski on the boards was also tough and just incredible. He IS a man. And the Zags held a GREAT player, Hollis-Jefferson to 8 points and 6 rebounds. That is toughness.

I'd also have to say our BENCH. 8 points from them. I really thought we had a really good bench this year. And Few kept telling us time after time how close, or evenly matched, these players were this year. Nunez got 3 minutes. Melson 7. Because of this Kevin Pangos had to play major minutes and it hurt his performance. Few NEEDS to get him more rest, imo. I feel Gary can handle the point fine and Dranginis can play along side of him, I believe Melson should have been given more time, and Nunez too.

So apparently, the players are not as evenly matched as Mark Few believes, accept for Sabonis. I think Sabonis is over rated at this point in the season. He clearly is not playing as well as Few indicated he was. In the last 3 games, against quality teams from the 5 Big Conference, he has not played well i two of them. And I believe that we'll see a big improvement by March. He just needs more playing time here in the USA.

Go Zags!!!

player of the game to me was Karnowski I'm sure he surprised many of our bloggers here.

TheGonzagaFactor
12-07-2014, 10:22 AM
The defense and toughness overall were a pleasant surprise. So many people say we aren't tough and can't win games like this but we showed that we can. We win by 7-10 points on a neutral court, if not more. Arizona is a very tough team with a very tough home court and we tied them in regulation.

Biggest surprises from players were Shem and Dranginis. Shem obviously stepped up and proved the haters wrong. Awesome performance. Dranginis was tough as nails. Had several great hustle plays that kept us up in the first half. Also had a good rebound in the second half that was called a foul.

gonzagabasketball
12-07-2014, 10:24 AM
[QUOTE=Reborn;1057251]The biggest surprise to me was our defense. Gonzaga looked tougher to me until the last 3 minutes of regulation. Bell's defense on Johnson was incredible. How can a 6'2 inch guard defend someone like Johnson? I thought Wesley was on him a majority of the time, with Bell guarding York or McConnell. Either way, I think your point stands, Bell was tremendous on both sides of the ball. I think, from an explosive standpoint, Bell is a notch below the elite level, but as far as strength, agility, and of course his mental abilities, its clear Bell belongs on the court with the likes of AZ. I knew Gary was tough, but man that effort yesterday was incredible. I wish he had been the guy to get the last shot instead of Pangos. Karnowski on the boards was also tough and just incredible. He IS a man. Agreed, I think this is the best Karnowski has looked since AZ last season, maybe his whole career. He was simply in the game mentally on both ends and used his size to his advantage. I actually think he does better against these types of teams, with equal size and strength. He seems to move and react more naturally, more instinctive. I think its why he does so well against Waldow but often struggles against other WCC type teams. He has to tiptoe around, worrying that the Refs will insert themselves disallowing him to use his size aggressively. Whether or not Refs do this every game, I find he thinks less when he plays against upper echelon size and talent. Did he outplay their center (I can say his name, not spell it, aha) I dont know, he looked pretty good as well, but Karno certainly looks like he belongs and when he plays like yesterday its no stretch of the imagination believing him to be a professional talent. And the Zags held a GREAT player, Hollis-Jefferson to 8 points and 6 rebounds. That is toughness. This was a worry of mine going into the game, keeping him off the offensive glass and out of transition. They achieved this, though, I have to say his defense definitely impacted the game. So, like with Bell, its not always his scoring that can beat a team.

I'd also have to say our BENCH. 8 points from them. I really thought we had a really good bench this year. And Few kept telling us time after time how close, or evenly matched, these players were this year. Nunez got 3 minutes. This is warranted in my opinion. Though vastly improved, as someone stated in another thread this became a game of possessions. But really, GU was content to play a half court offense mostly and every possession was crucial. Nunez, especially with extended minutes, still has a tendency to make debilitating mental errors. He certainly has a role on this team going forward, but for me it was no surprise to not see him a whole lot more than they did. Melson 7. Because of this Kevin Pangos had to play major minutes and it hurt his performance. Few NEEDS to get him more rest, imo. I feel Gary can handle the point fine and Dranginis can play along side of him, I believe Melson should have been given more time, and Nunez too.

So apparently, the players are not as evenly matched as Mark Few believes, accept for Sabonis. I think Sabonis is over rated at this point in the season. I see your point, I think it has to more to do with over rating his experience in pro ball than his ability. From what Ive seen, he is every bit as good as indicated, but its obvious the consistency isnt there. Especially mentally. He plays emotionally frustrated at times, something that can certainly be corrected. He just hasnt been in the situations such as MSG and last night, that much is obvious. He clearly is not playing as well as Few indicated he was. In the last 3 games, against quality teams from the 5 Big Conference, he has not played well i two of them. And I believe that we'll see a big improvement by March. He just needs more playing time here in the USA. I agree, wholeheartedly.

Go Zags!!!

player of the game to me was Karnowski He certainly was, great performance by Bell as well. I'm sure he surprised many of our bloggers here.

ZagLawGrad
12-07-2014, 10:40 AM
Biggest surprise for me was KP going inside 3 times near the end and getting his lunch handed to him each time.

And he threw up a bad 3 that preceded the 3 attempt by Wesley.

If you are going to be a big-time PG, you just have to do better.

VaBeachZAG
12-07-2014, 11:01 AM
Biggest surprise for me was KP going inside 3 times near the end and getting his lunch handed to him each time.

And he threw up a bad 3 that preceded the 3 attempt by Wesley.

If you are going to be a big-time PG, you just have to do better.

Ridiculous comment. I seriously doubt there is another point guard in the country who could have done any better under the circumstances. See my post above (#11).

ZagLawGrad
12-07-2014, 11:07 AM
Ridiculous comment. I seriously doubt there is another point guard in the country who could have done any better under the circumstances. See my post above (#11).

Nothing ridiculous about it. He made some very poor decisions. McConnell made better decisions in OT. KP is good, but it doesn't change what he did at the end of that game.

TravelinZag
12-07-2014, 11:16 AM
Excellent observations, VaBeach. The Wildcats made a commitment to taking Pangos out of the game; amazed he was able to get the assists/points he did. If anyone was able to hit from outside, Pangos's assists would have been higher and the Zags would have won. Credit Arizona's strategy and Zags cold outside shooting.

sittingon50
12-07-2014, 11:17 AM
As we used to say in Cross Country, you can't run a PR (personal record) every time. I'll take Kevin in most races.

ZagLawGrad
12-07-2014, 11:19 AM
As we used to say in Cross Country, you can't run a PR (personal record) every time. I'll take Kevin in most races.

I think everyone on here would agree with that.

BTW should it be sittinon60 by now? :cool:

sittingon50
12-07-2014, 11:28 AM
I think everyone on here would agree with that.

BTW should it be sittinon60 by now? :cool:

That one is in the rearview mirror too!!:lmao:

Though I'm young (or is that immature) at heart.

zag67
12-07-2014, 11:30 AM
We did not allow them to beat us badly with their steals and quick releases on the long rebounds. We can play with them. Go Arizona stay undefeated the rest of the year.

OZZY
12-07-2014, 01:00 PM
KP never asserted himself on the offense.

Seriously?

He was smothered not by just one player, but by the Arizona team, most tines he did not have any room to work with. I watched them chase him through screens and switch so he had little to no room to operate.

KP played 43 of 45 minutes. TJM played 31 minutes with plenty of rest while the likes of Pitt and Jackson-Cartwright kept up the pressure.

Having a team play lockdown in your face defence against you for 43 minutes takes its toll.

IMHO, it was in this game more than any other this season that the Zags have/will miss the Perkins / McClellan support for KP.

BobZag
12-07-2014, 01:33 PM
Shem held his own on O and D. That surprised me a bit.

roxdoc
12-07-2014, 06:31 PM
I agree that Shem was the surprise player. Seems like he played like that las year against Ariz. Could have been the boatload of NBA scouts that were in attendance?

tyra
12-07-2014, 06:46 PM
I loved Shem's play and the single biggest surprise of the game to me was Shem stepping out and hitting that midrange jumper. I don't recall him doing that yet this year. Can you imagine the havoc it would cause opponents if that shot were a regular part of his threat?

sittingon50
12-07-2014, 07:29 PM
He has added a bank shot to his tool bag in the off-season & has used it a couple of times but I believe you are correct tyra, we hadn't seen that one yet.

To me the surprise was the loose balls he got to & tipped back out; 2, maybe 3. Hadn't seen hustle out of him to that extent (and I in no way mean to construe that he hasn't been hustling).

Match-ups are funny things. Shem has shined both times vs Arizona & looked rather pedestrian against some not so talented teams.

As they say, that's why they play the games.

Reborn
12-07-2014, 08:56 PM
I watched the game again tonight. Kevin really forced it in overtime. I've never seen him force it inside like that and get the turnovers. He did have some crucial turnovers, folks and they hurt. What was nice, and it's the Kevin I love, he hit that 3 pointer in over time to get the lead to one point after being behind by 4 points for most of the overtime. Great shot under pressure. Zags stopped running the offense in overtime, and that hurt them. They went back to playing one on one, Kevin and Wesley, and that hurt some. Wesley missed two shots after beautiful drives to the basket. Great drives but he never finished. He missed one and committed an offensive foul on the one he made. It is so important to seal the deal, as the Zags say.

Go Zags!!!