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Reborn
12-01-2014, 02:48 PM
I know we have a game tomorrow night. I've said what I needed to say about that. It's the Zags business to take one game at a time, and not ours. hahahahaha This game is so huge that I can not, not talk about it. Arizona is such a prodigeous foe that I need to talk about them now. I can hardly wait for the game. I was really hoping that both of us would be undefeated at game time, and that both of us would win our tournaments. And that happened, so I'm so grateful.

Arizona has been the best team out west for sometime now, and Gonzaga has constantly wanted to replace them, but so far it hasn't happened. Again this year they are ahead of us in the polls. We continue to chase them. I am beginning to feel about Arizona the way I once felt about the U W. At one time they were a formidable foe, until they chickened out on us. Arizona has never done that, and has gladly been willing to play Gonzaga several times in our Out of Conference games (none at GU though until next year). They've beaten us twice now in the NCAA tournament; and it's about time we knock them off that pedestal.

I really believe that Gonzaga can beat this Arizona Wildcat team. They are tough and confidenct, like all Arizona teams, but they are definitely not the kind of team they were last year. They are missing their two best players from last year. We are not. WE are better. We are bigger, better and tougher. And definitely more experienced. We are tougher inside, beginning with Sabonis. Sabonis is as tough as Arizona will see inside this year. And he's extremely quick for a four who's as tough as him. And we've Wiltjer and Wesley who are both very experienced players who have played at an elite level in basketball. Wesley has played in Arizona two or three years. Gonzaga did not have a player like Wesley last year, and I feel that he will cause havoc in Arizona. Gonzaga, imo is the best team out west this year. Now all they need to do is go and prove it on Saturday.

gonzagafan62
12-01-2014, 03:02 PM
I know we have a game tomorrow night. I've said what I needed to say about that. It's the Zags business to take one game at a time, and not ours. hahahahaha This game is so huge that I can not, not talk about it. Arizona is such a prodigeous foe that I need to talk about them now. I can hardly wait for the game. I was really hoping that both of us would be undefeated at game time, and that both of us would win our tournaments. And that happened, so I'm so grateful.

Arizona has been the best team out west for sometime now, and Gonzaga has constantly wanted to replace them, but so far it hasn't happened. Again this year they are ahead of us in the polls. We continue to chase them. I am beginning to feel about Arizona the way I once felt about the U W. At one time they were a formidable foe, until they chickened out on us. Arizona has never done that, and has gladly been willing to play Gonzaga several times in our Out of Conference games (none at GU though until next year). They've beaten us twice now in the NCAA tournament; and it's about time we knock them off that peddastol.

I really believe that Gonzaga can beat this Arizona Wildcat team. They are tough and confidenct, like all Arizona teams, but they are definitely not the kind of team they were last year. They are missing their two best players from last year. We are not. WE are better. We are bigger, better and tougher. And definitely more experienced. We are tougher inside, beginning with Sabonis. Sabonis is as tough as Arizona will see inside this year. And he's extremely quick for a four who's as tough as him. And we've Wiltjer and Wesley who are both very experienced players who have played at an elite level in basketball. Wesley has played in Arizona two or three years. Gonzaga did not have a player like Wesley last year, and I feel that he will cause havoc in Arizona. Gonzaga, imo is the best team out west this year. Now all they need to do is go and prove it on Saturday.

I am very VERY nervous about Saturday. I haven't felt this nervous about a game since we played Oklahoma State (in 2012) in Gallagher Iba. Of course I didn't expect to beat Butler, so that doesn't count. I really don't know what to think of this game. Sean Miller is an exceptional coach who is trying to do the same thing Mark Few is doing: Go to a Final Four. The Wildcats have our number, and that's not usually a good thing.

I really don't have a lot of confidence about this game, but I do hope we win. I agree with everything you stated Reborn. They do seem a bit overrated. Lets look at some of the stats:

Gonzaga:

#3 FG Percentage
#3 in Assists Per Game
#5 in Points Per Game
#19 in Offensive Rebounds
#8 in Defensive Rebounds
#9 in Defensive FG Percentage (34.3%)

Arizona:

55th in FG Percentage
131st in Assists Per Game
94th in Points Per Game
220th in Offensive Rebounds
153rd In Defensive Rebounds
125th in Defensive FG Percentage (40.3%)

Although they have home court advantage. Tough game. Top 20 in all these stats, and they are all sub 50. Who knows if these will be a factor...

Reborn
12-01-2014, 03:12 PM
I'm so glad we played St. John's in Madison Square Garden. Had the Zags not played them there, and won, I would not be so confident. St. John's prepared the Zags to go up against Arizona and beat them. After all, we know this is a special Gonzaga team. And they can prove it too.

Go Zags!!!

slam dunk
12-01-2014, 03:21 PM
To beat Arizona the Zags need Karno to play like the intimidating seven footer he could and should be playing like. To often when he gets a shot blocked or loses a sure rebound to a quicker set of hands he looks dejected. Just once I wish he would tear a back board down or throw a monster dunk on someone. I really believe he is going to be the key to beating Arizona on Saturday. Play with a chip on your shoulder and drop twenty something on them. Intimidate them inside this weekend.

Reborn
12-01-2014, 03:24 PM
Good point, Slam Dunk. He played great last year when we played them. He needs to try to bring that kind of intensity again. I doubt he will get what you hope for, but let's just hope he does not get in foul trouble, protects the basket, gets 6 or 7 rebounds and scores 12 points. AND HOPE HE CAN HIT 2 OR 3 FOUL SHOTS.

WBM
12-01-2014, 03:30 PM
Good point, Slam Dunk. He played great last year when we played them. He needs to try to bring that kind of intensity again. I doubt he will get what you hope for, but let's just hope he does not get in foul trouble, protects the basket, gets 6 or 7 rebounds and scores 12 points. AND HOPE HE CAN HIT 2 OR 3 FOUL SHOTS.

I hope he does drop 20+ on them. If Karnowski gets 20 points, our chances of winning are REAL high.

Malastein
12-01-2014, 03:35 PM
If the Zags win, and win convincingly, the chances for an undefeated, insanely entertaining season go way up. I'm dreaming of a Gonzaga versus Kentucky title tilt featuring two unbeatens!

slam dunk
12-01-2014, 03:35 PM
Ok I'll tone that down just a bit. 15 points to include two posterizing dunks 3/6 from the free throw line. Eight rebounds and two big blocks. Last but not least to not foul out. Go Zags

bartruff1
12-01-2014, 03:48 PM
It is very very difficult to beat a elite team on their home court... if the game were in the Kennel that would also be true... I will be very surprised and pleased if Gonzaga wins this game... they could...if they can keep their composure and play at their pace...and someone(s) makes about 12 three's...

GrizZAG
12-01-2014, 03:57 PM
Great post Reborn, spot on.

I think this Zag team has a good chance to take them on their home court if they take care of the ball and play intense defense. The scoring will be there. I say we WIN!

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-01-2014, 04:02 PM
Logic dictates we will open the game playing zone against Arizona. As a team they are shooting under 35% from downtown with their two best long range gunners (small sample size) Cartwright & Pitts coming off the bench. Our big concern will be crashing the boards out of the zone (always challenging for any team) and not allowing easy put backs which includes being posterized by Johnson/Jefferson. Our starting 4 man rules out any Man-to-Man options in my opinion. With Nunez/Sabonis we have the potential depth to switch up and rotate defenses better in the front court. It is just a match-up issue vs. Zona and other athletic forwards to start games. I hate zone in general but I think with our team we may have to roll the dice with it regularly. If we find we are not getting production on the offensive end of the court to start games to help compensate for defensive liabilities then coach Few will have to adjust. He already showed in NYC he is willing to sit a player who is a match-up liability on the defensive end if the offensive production is non-existent. I thought our coaching in NYC was very very very very good and I have a tendency to be a critic in that department. At least when thinking the games through to myself afterwards like I did all last year. :(

All the player match-ups between Zona and the Zags are so interesting this year. In game Strategy and adjustments I think will decide this game. The Zags have depth like never before and that could be our very slight edge even without Jenks. I don't think Gonzaga will reach its ceiling until February when EM has acclimated himself into the "system" and we hope for a Jenks return (still questionable). Karnowski will just have to be serviceable against Arizona. I think we have a great shot at the win. Our three seniors and that stud named DS give us a punchers chance against any team in the country at any venue. That is why this year is so important. :) JMHO

jyboc
12-01-2014, 04:05 PM
If the Zags win, and win convincingly, the chances for an undefeated, insanely entertaining season go way up. I'm dreaming of a Gonzaga versus Kentucky title tilt featuring two unbeatens!

I'm sure if we go unbeaten, the committee would give us a 9 seed and we'd play them in the second game. You should know better than to predict a good draw unless you're in a big five conference. This will worsen as these conferences now expect to be treated "differently"

CDC84
12-01-2014, 04:15 PM
A few keys:

1) The Zags must keep turnovers to a minimum. Pangos, Bell and company will have defenders in their grill all game long. The bigs must be decisive with their offensive moves and passes. The Zags need to do everything possible to make Arizona run halfcourt offense and keep the crowd out of the game. They must reduce Zona's transition game.

2) Karnowski and Sabonis must stay out of foul trouble. They have to stay away from cheap fouls so that the fouls they give are legit. They will be battling an elite frontcourt. I expect Wiltjer to struggle in this game defensively (he is going to have a hard time containing almost anyone he is assigned to). Karno and Sabonis need to play a lot of minutes together in order for the Zags to excel in this game.

3) The Zags must hit their free throws. Arizona may only be shooting 71% from the foul line, but they can stick a lineup out there that consists of 75%+ foul shooters. I don't expect Zona is misfire on the foul line that much in their home arena.

4) Hollis-Jefferson needs to be boxed out. He is a nuisance on the offense glass and loves blocking shots and stealing the basketball from big men and wings who aren't decisive in their moves going toward the hoop. He is the kind of guy who can completely turn a game around and ignite a crowd with his electric athleticism and ceaseless motor.

The biggest thing the Zags need to do is just stay in the game. If they can build a lead and maintain it, all the better because Arizona is so good when it comes to getting stops in the final 3-4 minutes. Their defense, which is already elite, goes up a notch in crunch time.

Section 116
12-01-2014, 04:27 PM
Incisive post CDC thanks, I'll be keeping an eye on those things!!!!

Seatown
12-01-2014, 04:34 PM
If the Zags win, and win convincingly, the chances for an undefeated, insanely entertaining season go way up. I'm dreaming of a Gonzaga versus Kentucky title tilt featuring two unbeatens!

Could you imagine all the drama if we played Kentucky at any point in the tourney? Kyle Wiltjer going up against his old squad. Would have to think Kyle would have quite the chip on his shoulder in that scenario. I know it's foolish to even talk about such a hypothetical, but people should not discount what Wiltjer's experience might mean.

Reborn
12-01-2014, 06:04 PM
A few keys:

1) The Zags must keep turnovers to a minimum. Pangos, Bell and company will have defenders in their grill all game long. The bigs must be decisive with their offensive moves and passes. The Zags need to do everything possible to make Arizona run halfcourt offense and keep the crowd out of the game. They must reduce Zona's transition game.

2) Karnowski and Sabonis must stay out of foul trouble. They have to stay away from cheap fouls so that the fouls they give are legit. They will be battling an elite frontcourt. I expect Wiltjer to struggle in this game defensively (he is going to have a hard time containing almost anyone he is assigned to). Karno and Sabonis need to play a lot of minutes together in order for the Zags to excel in this game.

3) The Zags must hit their free throws. Arizona may only be shooting 71% from the foul line, but they can stick a lineup out there that consists of 75%+ foul shooters. I don't expect Zona is misfire on the foul line that much in their home arena.

4) Hollis-Jefferson needs to be boxed out. He is a nuisance on the offense glass and loves blocking shots and stealing the basketball from big men and wings who aren't decisive in their moves going toward the hoop. He is the kind of guy who can completely turn a game around and ignite a crowd with his electric athleticism and ceaseless motor.

The biggest thing the Zags need to do is just stay in the game. If they can build a lead and maintain it, all the better because Arizona is so good when it comes to getting stops in the final 3-4 minutes. Their defense, which is already elite, goes up a notch in crunch time.

great post CDC. I agree with what you said about foul shooting. Arizona beat San Diego St at the foul line, as they shot 20-24 and San Diego Shot 13-24. Arizona didn't shoot very well from either the two pt shots or 3's. They shot 36% from 2's and 38 from beyond the arc. The other thing that stands out in their victory was there offensive rebounding. GU must work their butts off on the boards.

And yes, If GU turns the ball over 17 times against Arizona they will be in trouble.

I feel differently then you about Wiltjer. If he's hitting his shots he can be very affective. I am really hoping he brings his A game. Sabonis will have a great battle with Stanley Johnson. I can't wait to see it. And the true about the two centers. The match ups are all great. I think Gary Bell is going to have a big game. Pangos too.

I'm not worrying about the Zags hanging with Arizona. They can. It's going to be a great game, imo.

Baseline
12-01-2014, 06:14 PM
I expect Arizona to block the middle pretty well initially. I think GU should be able to open it up by hitting from outside. Once the middle opens up our bigs need to go at them very aggressively and get them into foul problems.
I have seen Arizona play a few times on TV and am convinced we can beat them.
We need a very aggressive PK.

jim77
12-01-2014, 06:27 PM
They embarrassed us pretty bad last year...turnovers did us in. They physically overwhelmed us last year and their bigs are at least as good...make that better this year. To me the key will be not coughing the ball up and not getting lazy with passes. I think that we should shorten our passes up a bit..as they owned the passing lanes. If we hang onto the ball and get fair shots then we will have a chance.

DixieZag
12-01-2014, 07:15 PM
Turnovers are always critical - especially on the road in true away game, b/c it amps up the crowd. obviously a big deal.

What is not obvious, at least I have not heard it in this thread, is the importance of hitting the 3s. If we can shoot our 40-50% from 3, the game becomes much easier. A hot 3 pt shooting team, or even our average at home, would cover a great deal of mistakes. If we have a 2 for 10 clunker, we're in trouble b/c everything else becomes magnified. 3s also are one way to shut up a road arena in a big hurry.

You don't have to rebound offensively on a made shot.

RRZagFan
12-01-2014, 07:23 PM
there fans are pretty confident bunch
http://pointguardu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79302

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-01-2014, 07:36 PM
great post CDC. I agree with what you said about foul shooting. Arizona beat San Diego St at the foul line, as they shot 20-24 and San Diego Shot 13-24. Arizona didn't shoot very well from either the two pt shots or 3's. They shot 36% from 2's and 38 from beyond the arc. The other thing that stands out in their victory was there offensive rebounding. GU must work their butts off on the boards.

And yes, If GU turns the ball over 17 times against Arizona they will be in trouble.

I feel differently then you about Wiltjer. If he's hitting his shots he can be very affective. I am really hoping he brings his A game. Sabonis will have a great battle with Stanley Johnson. I can't wait to see it. And the true about the two centers. The match ups are all great. I think Gary Bell is going to have a big game. Pangos too.

I'm not worrying about the Zags hanging with Arizona. They can. It's going to be a great game, imo.

You feel good about KW's defense???? Hitting shots can easily be mitigated by being forced to go zone to cover weakness. Also Wiltjer is the starting 4 not Sabonis so we need a stop gap measure defensively until DS starts logging minutes. Wiltjer is an intelligent player though so he has the capability instinctively to get in proper position for defensive rebounds out of the zone. I think the concern is Wiltjer was a no show against SJ who possess an athletic front court. Wiltjer is skilled enough offensively to position himself and score against anyone in the country if he brings a tough mindset to the game. What do you guys think??? jmho

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-01-2014, 07:49 PM
there fans are pretty confident bunch
http://pointguardu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79302

Last years beat down they gave works to our advantage mentally for this game. We only have a bad match-up at the 4 on the defensive end. With great coaching we can mask it and still utilize Wiltjer's strengths. Zona is very beatable. They don't respect us. That could turn out to be very fatal for Arizona.

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-01-2014, 07:56 PM
Turnovers are always critical - especially on the road in true away game, b/c it amps up the crowd. obviously a big deal.

What is not obvious, at least I have not heard it in this thread, is the importance of hitting the 3s. If we can shoot our 40-50% from 3, the game becomes much easier. A hot 3 pt shooting team, or even our average at home, would cover a great deal of mistakes. If we have a 2 for 10 clunker, we're in trouble b/c everything else becomes magnified. 3s also are one way to shut up a road arena in a big hurry.

You don't have to rebound offensively on a made shot.

I don't think they can contain Sabonis in the block. Last year Karno even played well down low. I think Johnson could get into early foul trouble if we go at him. Play inside out with Sabonis as the PTP'er. It will open up our dagger shooting hit men from downtown 3 range. So you are right we can kill them from deep with the right approach. jmho

Reborn
12-01-2014, 08:03 PM
Neither GU or Arizona are the same teams as last year. There are some of the same players back, and ours are as good as theirs, imo. The post players who killed us last year was mostly Eric Gordon, and then Hollis-Jefferson, and especially Gordon. Sam Dower was non-existent in that game. And so was Gary Bell; so I'm excited to see how Gary plays this year.

willandi
12-01-2014, 08:26 PM
I hope their players read their board! If Rizona thinks that the Pango they saw last year is the same Pangos they will see this year, They will have their 'A' handed to them.
The game has to be played. On a neutral court I would take this years Zags 70-80% of the time. On their home court I think it is 50/50. Well see...except I will be at work and will DVR the game, so will not be live at anytime. I won't get home until after 6!

JPtheBeasta
12-01-2014, 08:37 PM
I hope their players read their board! If Rizona thinks that the Pango they saw last year is the same Pangos they will see this year, They will have their 'A' handed to them.
The game has to be played. On a neutral court I would take this years Zags 70-80% of the time. On their home court I think it is 50/50. Well see...except I will be at work and will DVR the game, so will not be live at anytime. I won't get home until after 6!

You are hinting at a larger point. This Zags team has a lot to prove after last year, so motivation shouldn't be an issue. The loss of Perkins is big for this game, in my opinion, because of his athleticism, but Dranginis is under-rated athletically and I think he could be a wild card in this one.

Zagdawg
12-01-2014, 08:49 PM
Last year against Arizona Dranginis got 13 mins ---scored 2 points, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 2 pf/1to -----he has some experience against the Arizona guys.

I am liking Wesley in this game---he has played a good number of games against Arizona over his college career---good to have the experience on the team.

seacatfan
12-01-2014, 08:56 PM
I don't see Sabonis matching up against Johnson on either end of the court at any point during the game. Johnson starts at the 3 and slides to the 2 a little bit. Hollis-Jefferson also plays the 3 but slides to the 4 at times when UA goes with a smaller lineup. Hollis-Jefferson and Sabonis definitely could end up guarding each other some. Sabonis is taller, Hollis-Jefferson is quicker and more explosive, both are fairly strong. Could be an interesting matchup. Gordon is gone as has been noted. He was very athletic and versatile, but not particularly good offensive player. Ashley, who was out with injury the end of last year, is a much better shooter and probably post player than Gordon at the 4. He's not as explosive, and not likely to lead the break the length of the floor way Gordon could. UA is adjusting to the loss of Gordon just fine, the guy that was irreplaceable from last year's team is Nick Johnson. No equivalent this year. UA's big man Tarczewski has been struggling to get involved on the offensive end so far this year similarly to Karnowski. The matchup between those two could be important...or could be a non-factor in the game. UA's starting guards (McConnell and York) have been struggling to bring any kind of consistency shooting and scoring thus far this season. So far this year Coach Miller appears to be utilizing his bench much more than last year. Several freshmen are getting at least a few minutes here and there (in addition to Johnson, backup PG Jackson-Cartwright, backup center Ristic and PF Victor). Hollis-Jefferson is probably UA's best player but he doesn't start. Arizona's defense doesn't look as good as last year but they are still good defensively. It is their bread and butter. Some others have nailed it, GU needs to limit TO's and keep UA off the offensive glass. I liked GU's chances better before the Georgia and St. John's games. I think there's a very good chance GU keeps it close. Arizona isn't blowing many teams out, but they keep winning. Arizona hasn't lost a regular season non-conference game for almost 2 1/2 years--last one was against GU in the Battle in Seattle I think.

seacatfan
12-01-2014, 08:59 PM
I'm pretty sure Coach Miller is not going to be overlooking Gonzaga. If some of their fans do, that's totally irrelevant. Anyway the UA fans on the Scout forum aren't cocky about the game.

seacatfan
12-01-2014, 09:27 PM
there fans are pretty confident bunch
http://pointguardu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79302

Selective reading? Several are giving props to GU, noting that Pangos was injured last year and healthy and looking good this year. Mostly they are talking about home court advantage at McKale Center and expecting some of their road games in Pac 12 play to be more challenging than the game against GU. Conference road games can be really tough, right? Or saying that the game they just had against a very physical and good defensively San Diego St. team might prove to be their toughest game. If you try you can convince yourself GU is being disrespected but I don't think so.

ZagNation
12-01-2014, 10:12 PM
I just hope GU can stay out of foul trouble.

amaronizag
12-01-2014, 11:39 PM
Ashley is healthy this year and he and AA freshman Stanley Johnson are jump out of the gym athletic. Forward Hollis-Jefferson is also really tough as is Victor. Nobody hustles more than McConnell but our guards are better and deeper. Tarczewski is leaner and meaner this year and way more muscular, but Karno will still eat his lunch. The backup center Ristic is a more prolific scorer and has better feet than Tarczewski. We can hurt them in the paint, but if we turn the game into a slow inside battle, their length and athleticism probably wins. If we run and gun and put up 65 shots we've got a very good chance of winning. If we only get up 51-52 shots again, we get beat up. AZ just can't put up the points like they did last year. I really think we can out shoot them and out score them, I just hope that's the game plan.

ZagLawGrad
12-01-2014, 11:40 PM
Not a good match up for the Zags on a tough home court to win on. That AZ-SDSU game in Maui proved to me that AZ is a very physical and skilled team that plays with high intensity.

Zags will have to be about perfect to win this one.

seacatfan
12-02-2014, 12:22 AM
While Arizona is a grind it out team, I don't think turning it into a track meet is necessarily in GU's best interest either. Arizona will gladly run if you let them, that's when they get easy buckets. I think for GU it's more about valuing possessions, shooting well from the floor and not turning the ball over rather than how many shots they take, what pace they play at, etc. I won't be at all surprised if GU grabs a lead early, UA has come out slowly almost every game this season. If the Zags are really ripping the nets and Arizona starts really cold, GU could build a decent sized lead. Then it's a matter of hanging onto the lead. I think UA has worn down its opponents in the 2nd half just about every game so far.

jim77
12-02-2014, 12:42 AM
Not a good match up for the Zags on a tough home court to win on. That AZ-SDSU game in Maui proved to me that AZ is a very physical and skilled team that plays with high intensity.

Zags will have to be about perfect to win this one.

yup.

I actually think AZ is MORE physical then last year. I also think we could cough the ball up 20 times if we ain't careful. I'm not too worried about what kind of shots...its getting enough attempts that I'm worried about. Yes, their defense is THAT good.

gonzagafan62
12-02-2014, 01:01 AM
yup.

I actually think AZ is MORE physical then last year. I also think we could cough the ball up 20 times if we ain't careful. I'm not too worried about what kind of shots...its getting enough attempts that I'm worried about. Yes, their defense is THAT good.

20 times? You must think we can't hold on to the ball? Karnowski is te only one I can see that would possibly lose the ball more than 5 times. They can have their sorry big name playas. I'll take pangos and Wesley over them anyday

DixieZag
12-02-2014, 01:32 AM
there fans are pretty confident bunch
http://pointguardu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79302

Well, if we had played a team and beat them the way they beat us just a half year ago (no matter who is back) and we had them at home, not sure I'd be all that concerned either - though the thread is a question about whether GU is their toughest game this year.

And, like here, including your esteemed author of this post - many, know nothing:


Gonzaga isn't our toughest test. Remember the tournament last year? Their guards couldn't handle our physical defense. They have the same backcourt again this year. They look like a soft team that shoots a lot of 3s. Our defense isn't going to give up penetration and kick outs for open 3s. And we will not lose at home. Michigan will be a tougher test than Gonzaga but again we won't lose at home.

No doubt that compared to an AZ, we've been soft in the past but evidently a lot of people know nothing about this team. Plus, we aren't some outside-in team that shoots a lot of 3s bc we have no inside game.

But, again, they're at home, they know what that's worth, they know how good they are (even if they don't know about us) and so I can't really blame them for being confident.

Amazing at how brutal they are on the Pac this year, I hadn't appreciated how much the Pac sucks this year.

DixieZag
12-02-2014, 01:43 AM
Selective reading? Several are giving props to GU, noting that Pangos was injured last year and healthy and looking good this year. Mostly they are talking about home court advantage at McKale Center and expecting some of their road games in Pac 12 play to be more challenging than the game against GU. Conference road games can be really tough, right? Or saying that the game they just had against a very physical and good defensively San Diego St. team might prove to be their toughest game. If you try you can convince yourself GU is being disrespected but I don't think so.

He didn't say "disrespectful" just "confident" - and they are that. Yes, they do respect us as the thread is called "Is Gonzaga the toughest game this year," but, there isn't one person there that really thinks there's a chance they get beat.

I still have PTSD about us not being able to bring the ball up the floor against them last year. Seeing that board makes me think that maybe there's a reason they're so confident.

Dunno, as I noted earlier. What I do know is that I thought one semi-advantage to us was that it was our toughest test of the year and being up and ready so we could sort of sneak up on an over-confident team. If they think this might be the toughest game of the year, I guess we ain't sneaking up on them.

seacatfan
12-02-2014, 02:05 AM
Well, the way the Zags started the season, I think they'll have a hard time sneaking up on anybody. Fans on message boards might write them off too easily, but I have a hard time believing any opposing coach doesn't recognize how dangerous GU can be with all of their assorted offensive weapons. Most Arizona fans probably don't know every player on the GU roster, but one of them noted that Perkins was injured and was a contributor and the backup PG. You can't blame them if they don't know Melson because there isn't much data on him after just 1 game. Didn't see mentions of Wiltjer, Sabonis or Wesley, although I'm sure most UA fans will remember Wesley from his days at USC. They also remembered that Karnowski easily got the better of Tarczewski last year. And recognized that Stockton isn't at GU anymore. I'd say overall there's a fairly decent amount of knowledge about GU demonstrated in the linked thread.

ZagaZags
12-02-2014, 02:39 AM
We have 53 guards on our roster and 34 of them are All-conference (true, it is the WCC, but 9 would challenge for Pac All-Conference, too.)

ZagsGoZags
12-02-2014, 03:53 AM
I think we have a good shot at them if Bell and Wesley would start kicking the ball out to our perimeter players (at least some of the time, now it is almost never) when they drive the Lane.

Who is out there to take a 3 pt attempt? Just Pangos, Wiltjer, and Melson
Jeese, ..... Gary and Byron, get a grip on looking for these assists

it will also help if our defenders help Wiltjer on defense, because AZ is going to run right past him

jazzdelmar
12-02-2014, 04:05 AM
I think we have a good shot at them if Bell and Wesley would start kicking the ball out to our perimeter players (at least some of the time, now it is almost never) when they drive the Lane.

Who is out there to take a 3 pt attempt? Just Pangos, Wiltjer, and Melson
Jeese, ..... Gary and Bryan, get a grip on looking for these assists

it will also help if our defenders help Wiltjer on defense, because AZ is going to run right past him


Hadn't noticed that, good point. It's been more pick and roll or big to big than kick. Sabonis is aces inside, of course, but Karno is 50-50 at best, so maybe a new approach. But hate to live by the three point sword, especially on the road where KP is just an average shooter and Bell tends to disappear. Melson the wild card. He could drop 12-15.

ZagsGoZags
12-02-2014, 04:33 AM
true,
but also consider how well Kevin and Gary shoot 3's when they have the half second needed to get their feet set. include Wiltjer in that also.
when receiving a kick-out pass, that half second is usually provided

Zagger
12-02-2014, 04:40 AM
I expect Mt K to play well again this year. I also expect better ball handling (fewer turnovers) by our guards. But, Zona can play D. We can't have sloppy play and win this game against Zona at home. Both Kevin and Gary are going to have to play at their best for GU to beat Arizona. Sabonis, Wiltjer and Nunez are all going to have to control/protect the ball. All in all though, the Zags are a different team this season - better and with so much new talent that it's difficult to fathom who will shine. Arizona is formidable but they'll have their hands full with this Zag bunch. My gut feeling is that the Zags will be UP for this game and beat Arizona at home and do so impressively. Go Zags!

DixieZag
12-02-2014, 07:24 AM
We have 53 guards on our roster and 34 of them are All-conference (true, it is the WCC, but 9 would challenge for Pac All-Conference, too.)

No, that's exactly the way I wanted it. It's called hyperbole. I didn't want to get into a dissertation (more than already) about Pangos, Perkins, Bell, Mac second semester, Wesley, Drainginis, so - just felt easier to give'm rough estimate. :)

jazzdelmar
12-02-2014, 07:30 AM
I have as much if not more confidence in Bell vs KP on the road when it comes to nailing the kick out 3.

gonzagafan62
12-02-2014, 08:01 AM
I have as much if not more confidence in Bell vs KP on the road when it comes to nailing the kick out 3.

Me too. Bell vs Okie state at GI

zagzealot
12-02-2014, 09:45 AM
I just want to hear an announcer say it's a battle of Kar-new-ski vs Tar-zew-ski.

DixieZag
12-02-2014, 09:50 AM
Me too. Bell vs Okie state at GI

Honestly, if you only let me pick one guy to shoot that last shot, I think I'd pick Gary ( I know that is sacrilegious) and not just b/c he did it before, but b/c once in a while KP has a tough time shooting on the road, sometimes he's fine - WVU, where he won us the game. Gary is far more steady home/away, plus he's got the purest jumper and can get elevation over a lot of guards. Haven't seen Wiltjer much but that's definitely not a bad shot, since he shoots 70/75, Gary would probably only hit 72, so not a big difference.

Larrylegend
12-02-2014, 11:07 PM
I think UA has worn down its opponents in the 2nd half just about every game so far.

And this is where Gonzaga's depth comes into play.

raise the zag
12-03-2014, 05:57 AM
Not a good match up for the Zags on a tough home court to win on. That AZ-SDSU game in Maui proved to me that AZ is a very physical and skilled team that plays with high intensity.

Zags will have to be about perfect to win this one.

This.

and then some. . .

Been saying Arizona the most impressive 'looking' team I've viewed thus far -- including Kentucky.

While they haven't been blowing teams out, you can tell they are physical, well-coached/discplined, and always in control. Much like our game vs St Johns, sure, they kept it close, yet you could tell we were going to win.

Arizona is my pick for the Nat'l Championship.

They look just as formidable, if not better defensively, than last season. Yes, they lost Aaron Gordon, yet GAIN a healthy Brandon Ashley AND bigger, faster, stronger Hollis-Jefferson. Not to mention their Top-10 frontcourt freshman.

Their guards are pretty much equal to our guards, yet they are on another level defensively and in pure transition.

This is precisely the type of game we could have utilized Perkins. Pangos will be swallowed up and playing him off the ball with a true-PG would have been ideal, to hunt his shot and knock down 3's. Its the only way we made it game last season, when Stockton set up Pangos for 3's. Karnowski came to play, yet mostly when the game was already decided.

We are improved as well, yet so is Arizona, just differently.

The key will be keeping Domas out of foul trouble -- the only big who can match their athleticism and motor. Pangos making all his 3's. GBJ pushing the ball. And Wesley having the same type of performance (20pts) he did last season vs Zona.

IF we can keep the game within 10 = HUGE success.

Reborn
12-03-2014, 07:12 AM
One thing that makes me feel positive about the Zags' game vs Arizona is how well BYU played against San Diego St. I'm not sure how many GU fans saw that game, but BYU clearly beat San Diego St and got cheated out of a victory by the refs. San Diego just lost by 2 points to Arizona. I see no reason at all why the Zags shouldn't be able to hang with the Wildcats. San Diego St is every bit as tough on D as Arizona, and BYU was able to score on them.

I don't expect the Zags to turn the ball over like they did last March when they played. Kevin Pangos has like 4 turnovers in 7 games. Gary's turnover stats are about as good. As has been written about a lot here on the board, the key I think is rebounding and Gonzaga being able to shoot from the outside in order to make Arizona guard against the outside shout which will open up the inside. I think the Zags do have the advantage in the post play. I also think that PK and Sabonis need to stay out of foul trouble, and especially Sabonis. He NEEDS to play smart and stay in this game.

Go Zags!!!

Zags11
12-03-2014, 07:43 AM
Id take any one of these teams at home. However, i believe the zags will be in it to the very end. I still believe this team is top 5 team and if we lose itll be just a afterthought later on.

TheGonzagaFactor
12-03-2014, 08:06 AM
One thing that makes me feel positive about the Zags' game vs Arizona is how well BYU played against San Diego St. I'm not sure how many GU fans saw that game, but BYU clearly beat San Diego St and got cheated out of a victory by the refs. San Diego just lost by 2 points to Arizona. I see no reason at all why the Zags shouldn't be able to hang with the Wildcats. San Diego St is every bit as tough on D as Arizona, and BYU was able to score on them.

I don't expect the Zags to turn the ball over like they did last March when they played. Kevin Pangos has like 4 turnovers in 7 games. Gary's turnover stats are about as good. As has been written about a lot here on the board, the key I think is rebounding and Gonzaga being able to shoot from the outside in order to make Arizona guard against the outside shout which will open up the inside. I think the Zags do have the advantage in the post play. I also think that PK and Sabonis need to stay out of foul trouble, and especially Sabonis. He NEEDS to play smart and stay in this game.

Go Zags!!!


That's just not true. There was one possible foul where Haws tried to flop and didn't get rewarded. I could see the argument for a foul, but it was one play. BYU got plenty of breaks as well. I watched the whole game and SDSU, while greatly overrated, was the better team. BYU looks good, though.

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 08:11 AM
That's just not true. There was one possible foul where Haws tried to flop and didn't get rewarded. I could see the argument for a foul, but it was one play. BYU got plenty of breaks as well. I watched the whole game and SDSU, while greatly overrated, was the better team. BYU looks good, though.

BYU just lost to Purdue. Maybe BYU is overrated too.

Ekrub
12-03-2014, 08:19 AM
Nothing to lose really in this game. Huck up threes. Going to need our most athletic players in the floor. Just looks like too tough of a game and a bad match up. If we can keep it close it will be a moral victory.

TheGonzagaFactor
12-03-2014, 08:21 AM
The key to winning this game is to go in to McKale with the mindset that visiting teams, like SELA, bring into the Kennel. Just toss up some threes and see what happens. We are very good but not as good as Arizona. They are at least as talented and more athletic than us at every position and they are at home with one of the best home court advantages in the country. Their guards will get penetration, leading to open kick-out 3s, and-1s, and dunks. Our main keys to victory are going to be ball security, staying out of foul trouble, and hitting some tough 3s. If we come out and hit a few bombs early, we will spread the defense out and be able to use all aspects of our offense. I really like our chances if this happens. If we come out and miss a few from deep, Zona's defense will bunker down and we won't start hitting shots until we are down big. This has the potential to be a game for the ages if we play well, but a blowout if we don't. I think we will show up, so I'm leaning towards this being a great game that we remember for a long time.

In 2009, when Jimmer burst onto the scene, BYU stomped Arizona by 30 in Tucson. Jimmer had a very impressive 49 points that led to him receiving a standing ovation from the Arizona crowd at the end of the game. Lookin' at you, Kevin...

BULLDOG#1
12-03-2014, 08:33 AM
It's a tall order beating AZ on their home turf. This is a skilled GU team, though, and the way they can shoot it, I'd give them a fighters chance against anyone/anywhere.

Assuming the combination of Pango/Bell/Drang/Melson can play even with the AZ guards... I think Wiltjer and Wesley will be key.

Wiltjer, though not as physical, can score over top of Hollis-Jefferson or Stanley. Wesley is skilled enough to guard Hollis-Jefferson on the wing and a good enough rebounder to keep him off the offensive glass. If AZ has to double on Wiltjer, then their defense will be faced with a challenge I don't think they've seen all year. Much has been made of the way AZ manhandled the GU guards last year, but this is a different group of guards (healthy and bigger and stronger). Much respect for McConnell, but I'm wondering if he can d-up the Pangos/Wiltjer two man game (I'm hoping he can't).

The refs will likely favor the home team and let them play physical. If that is the case, then Sabonis and Karnowski must play hard nosed (not really an issue for Sabonis) and look to score on the block. Karno will need to make some FTs. Karno needs to play like he did against them last year.

In the end, it's going to take a great team effort to win this game. If they do, I wouldn't consider it a huge upset -- but rather a great win.

raise the zag
12-03-2014, 08:45 AM
As much as I adore our starting 5, I worry about them defensively.

Our first unit has been able to score on anyone, yet have yet to really defend anyone either.

Their defense to start games have been slow to react -- its been the addition of Domas or Nunez or Perkins/Melson or Dranginis that sets the tone for our D.

While we'll certainly begin the game with Pangos, GBJ, Wesley, Wiltjer, PK, its not our best defensive unit by any stretch.

I sincerely believe we have enough offensive weapons, options, and versaility to HANG with Zona. Even their vaulted defense -- some say best in nation -- will be confused on whom to defend.

Having said that, our first unit cannot, no way, no how defend Zona. Its been our bench who have played the best defense along with our main guys.

I feel we have enough of said offensive tools to score on Zona while potentially changing our lineup to best defend Arizona. imho.

seacatfan
12-03-2014, 08:45 AM
Some of you really aren't understanding the matchups. Stanley Johnson will not be guarding Wiltjer. Hollis-Jefferson could be a little bit. Johnson plays the 2 and 3, Hollis-Jefferson 3 and 4. It will mostly be Ashley. He's long and lanky, not really a banger but more athletic than Wiltjer.

raise the zag
12-03-2014, 08:51 AM
Some of you really aren't understanding the matchups. Stanley Johnson will not be guarding Wiltjer. Hollis-Jefferson could be a little bit. Johnson plays the 2 and 3, Hollis-Jefferson 3 and 4. It will mostly be Ashley. He's long and lanky, not really a banger but more athletic than Wiltjer.

Seacat -- we understand you're a Zona fan as well. You must be torn a bit. Who will you root for come Saturday, or are you waiting to find out yourself? :)

rennis
12-03-2014, 09:03 AM
This will be a tough win because it's a true road game early in the year. On a neutral floor I see these teams as being damn near evenly matched, with GU's offense being considerably better than AZ, and AZ's defense being considerably better than GU's.

GU will need some luck (read: cold shooting) to win this one on the road. And they need to severely limit turnovers. The athleticism of AZ is what could kill the Bulldogs if they don't take care of business on both ends of the floor on damn near every possession. Athletically I don't think AZ can truly overpower GU, but at many positions AZ is stronger and faster. BUT, GU can flat out score when they're on, so let's hope they start fast and don't get down early to a gifted defensive team. I've heard the NCAA loss to AZ is still a head-scratcher and a major frustration for the team - I expect them to be freakin' amped for this game, and a shot at redemption.

Prediction? If GU can shoot > 50% (which is a tall, tall order) they will win. I can't say whose shoulders the offensive burden falls on because it's different every game with this squad. More than likely the team manages to shoot ~45% and go down in a close match in the low 70s for each team.

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
12-03-2014, 09:13 AM
This.

and then some. . .

Been saying Arizona the most impressive 'looking' team I've viewed thus far -- including Kentucky.

While they haven't been blowing teams out, you can tell they are physical, well-coached/discplined, and always in control. Much like our game vs St Johns, sure, they kept it close, yet you could tell we were going to win.

Arizona is my pick for the Nat'l Championship.

They look just as formidable, if not better defensively, than last season. Yes, they lost Aaron Gordon, yet GAIN a healthy Brandon Ashley AND bigger, faster, stronger Hollis-Jefferson. Not to mention their Top-10 frontcourt freshman.

Their guards are pretty much equal to our guards, yet they are on another level defensively and in pure transition.

This is precisely the type of game we could have utilized Perkins. Pangos will be swallowed up and playing him off the ball with a true-PG would have been ideal, to hunt his shot and knock down 3's. Its the only way we made it game last season, when Stockton set up Pangos for 3's. Karnowski came to play, yet mostly when the game was already decided.

We are improved as well, yet so is Arizona, just differently.

The key will be keeping Domas out of foul trouble -- the only big who can match their athleticism and motor. Pangos making all his 3's. GBJ pushing the ball. And Wesley having the same type of performance (20pts) he did last season vs Zona.

IF we can keep the game within 10 = HUGE success.

One thing Arizona doesn't have is that 1 guy you can bank on consistently down the stretch of games (under the 4 min timeout) to deliver the goods. Eventually that could be Zona's demise that puts an E8 ceiling on them. MCconnell is going to be locked down by a good on ball defender as the tournament progresses and no one else is a proven go to guy.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 09:21 AM
Zona misses Nicky Johnson, a fabulous college BB player and the linchpin of both their D and O last year. McConnell was really helped the most with Nicky around. The bigs are pretty much the same, if not better. Sabonis and Melson are the wildcards, two Zags who can hang athletically and attitudinally w Zona's blue chippers.

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 09:21 AM
We have been GU fans for many years now. We travel to see them play. We will be at the GU vs AZ game Saturday. We make the trip to the WCC in Vegas each year. We were season ticket holders when we lived in Spokane. I have seen the changes this team has made and I think it has been for the best each time. So that being said I feel this is the best team GU has put on the court. I still see some rough edges. The low post people need to be better. I wish we could give some of Sabonis athletic skills and aggressiveness to Karno. It's hard for me to watch Karno react so slow and can't jump over a credit card and sometimes looks like he catches the ball with club hands. I think these two kids are the key for GU getting to the Final Four. These kids must have a good game to beat Arizona Saturday. Go Zags

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 09:26 AM
We have been GU fans for many years now. We travel to see them play. We will be at the GU vs AZ game Saturday. We make the trip to the WCC in Vegas each year. We were season ticket holders when we lived in Spokane. I have seen the changes this team has made and I think it has been for the best each time. So that being said I feel this is the best team GU has put on the court. I still see some rough edges. The low post people need to be better. I wish we could give some of Sabonis athletic skills and aggressiveness to Karno. It's hard for me to watch Karno react so slow and can't jump over a credit card and sometimes looks like he catches the ball with club hands. I think these two kids are the key for GU getting to the Final Four. These kids must have a good game to beat Arizona Saturday. Go Zags

Totally agree.

seacatfan
12-03-2014, 09:30 AM
Seacat -- we understand you're a Zona fan as well. You must be torn a bit. Who will you root for come Saturday, or are you waiting to find out yourself? :)

Ugh. Kinda feels like I can't win either way. I'd like to see a good, well played game. The last 2 have been lopsided, one in the Zags favor and one in Arizona's. The Battle in Seattle game I was leaning towards GU cuz it's their party, but it was such a blowout early on and 'Zona looked so bad that I had a hard time enjoying it. Last year UA looked like they could be a Final 4 team and GU didn't have that kind of team, so I was pulling for the Cats to make a deep run. Again though felt bad for the way the Zags looked.

seacatfan
12-03-2014, 09:32 AM
Zona misses Nicky Johnson, a fabulous college BB player and the linchpin of both their D and O last year. McConnell was really helped the most with Nicky around. The bigs are pretty much the same, if not better. Sabonis and Melson are the wildcards, two Zags who can hang athletically and attitudinally w Zona's blue chippers.

No doubt about it. Stanley Johnson might develop into their go-to guy, but he's still adjusting to the college game and has plenty of room for improvement so far. Hollis-Jefferson is a fantastic, versatile player but not really go-to.

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 09:34 AM
I say we start Sabonis and pray he stays out of foul trouble. I think this game will be way to fast for Karo. The trouble Karno has holding on to the ball could be turnover city. AZ is very athletic. We can not have that kind of game playing AZ.

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 09:41 AM
I say we start Sabonis and pray he stays out of foul trouble. I think this game will be way to fast for Karo. The trouble Karno has holding on to the ball could be turnover city. AZ is very athletic. We can not have that kind of game playing AZ.

I would be playing a lot of Nunez and Sabonis in this game. Seriously. I know Karno had a big game last year in the tourney, but IIRC most of his big game was after the game was well out of hand. Could be wrong. I have only seen the game about 5 times, compared to the usual 20 or so, and I don't have a copy to go refer to.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-03-2014, 09:56 AM
I say we start Sabonis and pray he stays out of foul trouble. I think this game will be way to fast for Karo. The trouble Karno has holding on to the ball could be turnover city. AZ is very athletic. We can not have that kind of game playing AZ.

Ridiculous......the only way Sabonis starts is if KW comes off the bench.
PK starts; he is a force!

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 09:59 AM
I hope the Zags will be up for the game in AZ Saturday. After Wiltjer said the players were angry in the locker room after the dismal first half last night. Do you think they might hash up last years game against AZ? I hope that thought gets them fired up to play both halves. I love the GU inside out game. Pangos looks hot shooting after his big toe has healed. Wesley can drive the ball and finish or he goes to the line. Let's focus on getting AZ in foul trouble.

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 10:09 AM
PK starts because he takes up space! He's slow, can't jump or catch the ball we saw his first dunk last night, I think. He is suspect for turnovers against other athletic aggressive teams. Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 10:13 AM
I say we start Sabonis and pray he stays out of foul trouble. I think this game will be way to fast for Karo. The trouble Karno has holding on to the ball could be turnover city. AZ is very athletic. We can not have that kind of game playing AZ.

Been here long? :) Even one or more of the seven plagues won't move Few to change his revered starting lineup. But I agree. Increasingly, this season seems to be one extended tutorial on getting Karno happy and involved. So far, no harm...we shall see. There always seems to be one player each year who is being spoon fed and protected from the quick pull that hangs over the rest of the team.......no names, you know who they have been.

CdAZagFan
12-03-2014, 10:25 AM
As much as I adore our starting 5, I worry about them defensively.

Our first unit has been able to score on anyone, yet have yet to really defend anyone either.

Their defense to start games have been slow to react -- its been the addition of Domas or Nunez or Perkins/Melson or Dranginis that sets the tone for our D.

While we'll certainly begin the game with Pangos, GBJ, Wesley, Wiltjer, PK, its not our best defensive unit by any stretch.

Totally agree. I worry about the defensive side of the ball... We have to have our A game offensively to win this game (that means great 3-point shooting to give us that extra edge and perhaps open up the middle).

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 10:28 AM
Getting Karno involved can't be at the teams expense. This is a BIG GAME Saturday! You have to try new things. It helps to make a better and more mature team. This game is all for the best in the west. If Karno was a freshman as Sabonis he would not be starting. I think Sabonis will be starting sometime this year.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 10:31 AM
Getting Karno involved can't be at the teams expense. This is a BIG GAME Saturday! You have to try new things. It helps to make a better and more mature team. This game is all for the best in the west. If Karno was a freshman as Sabonis he would not be starting. I think Sabonis will be starting sometime this year.

Again, welcome to Few World.

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 10:32 AM
Again, welcome to Few World.

Its great, 80.3% of the time. The other 19.7%.... not so much

U Zig, I Zag
12-03-2014, 10:33 AM
Only way to win is hitting from deep at a good clip and taking the crowd out of it a bit. Get everyone in the building back on their heels a bit (but the Zags). Exploit anything we can on offense. Force AZ (as best we can) to shoot from deep and not give up easy looks at the basket on drives*. PK has regressed in my opinion. He is a big body and that's about it. If he comes alive, then so be it - otherwise just play smart and not turn it over.

Sabonis is probably our best player. If he can stay out of foul trouble and use his moves to get them into foul trouble that would be great **. Bell/Pangos/The W's need to play great ball.


* I know it seems like we give up a lot of drives at the hoop, but all teams do. Some can send the shots back (we don't), but players practice two things: shooting 3's and driving at the rim. I would rather make AZ shoot 3's since they don't seem to do that as well.

** Sabonis needs to play more straight up on D. Let them shoot it, fine - just don't foul. On rebounds, go straight up. Reaching over just leads to fouls.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 10:34 AM
Its great, 80.3% of the time. The other 19.7%.... not so much

True enough. But that 80% could be a lot less teeth gnashing and hair pulling if there was a little more, shall we say, flexibility. To be fair, he is a far cry better than his Winston Brooks and even Meech days.

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 10:35 AM
True enough. But that 80% could be a lot less teeth gnashing and hair pulling if there was a little more, shall we say, flexibility. To be fair, he is a far cry better than his Winston Brooks and even Meech days.

Hahahahaha... So true. So true. Props for that Jazz.

raise the zag
12-03-2014, 10:39 AM
Getting Karno involved can't be at the teams expense. This is a BIG GAME Saturday! You have to try new things. It helps to make a better and more mature team. This game is all for the best in the west. If Karno was a freshman as Sabonis he would not be starting. I think Sabonis will be starting sometime this year.

While I feel Sabonis will NOT start this year, I think he should.

Initially, I liked his pep, motor, energy off the bench, yet more I watch our starting 5 sluggishly play defense and rebound in 4 of 7 games we've played, the more I believe Sabonis should start.

His aggression and physicality INSPIRES our team. Clear as day when he plays. The team is uplifted by his energy.

Guards and Bigs alike enjoy passing to him. When our team is swallowed up along perimeter and dribble-drive isn't working, its Domas bailing us out.

Posting HARD. Even Karno plays better AFTER Domas comes in game.

Outside of potential foul trouble, Sabonis and Wiltjer should absolutely be starting for our team. Not to mention they play great together. Guards can lob it up to him, he cleans up misses, he pushes people around, fights for position.

Did you see how fired up he got last night?! He showed the team something when he plowed through SELA player. While we don't want unnecessary fouls, Domas showed the team something. "Quit f'n around and let's own these guys!"

A noticeable lift in play and intensity arose.

Besides, PK would be a PERFECT change of pace off bench. Big, takes up space, fills the lane, can score on ISO-moves very well, AFTER Domas has tired them out.

I would much prefer Sabonis to start especially seeing his style of play and how it IMPACTS our team's chemistry and attitude.

How much more at ease do you feel as a fan when Sabonis enters game? All of a sudden...we're tough and defense has no answer for him.

Its like YEAH! here we go. Guards move more and pass more confidently as well.

A win win win!

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 10:45 AM
Raise, I agree. But see the Welcome to Few World post. Zags success this year hinges greatly on to what extent Karno gets up to speed, or gets replaced. And u made a great pt that DS makes others better, esp KW, unlike Karno who is often cringe inducing, like the younger Sacre but without the joie de vivre. :)

WBM
12-03-2014, 10:45 AM
True enough. But that 80% could be a lot less teeth gnashing and hair pulling if there was a little more, shall we say, flexibility. To be fair, he is a far cry better than his Winston Brooks and even Meech days.

I take Wesley starting over Dranginis as a welcome dose of pragmatism from Few. I know it was the right decision, but until I saw the first game's starting lineup, I wasn't sure he wouldn't start KD based on seniority at the position.

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 10:47 AM
Thanks Raise

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 10:52 AM
I take Wesley starting over Dranginis as a welcome dose of pragmatism from Few. I know it was the right decision, but until I saw the first game's starting lineup, I wasn't sure he wouldn't start KD based on seniority at the position.

So u think a Pac 12 double digit scorer is going to come to Spokane to sit? KD was never a starter, so that bailed Few out, but OK I stipulate that there was some pragmatism displayed there. I never thought BW would not start, I actually thought DS would, though. But its instructive to hear that you had your doubts abt BW.

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 10:52 AM
BTW Sabonas could be the left handed Kelly O. Minus the 3 point line.

WBM
12-03-2014, 10:56 AM
So u think a Pac 12 double digit scorer is going to come to Spokane to sit? KD was never a starter, so that bailed Few out, but OK I stipulate that there was some pragmatism displayed there. I never thought BW would not start, I actually thought DS would, though. But its instructive to hear that you had your doubts abt BW.

I didn't have doubts about what Wesley was compared to Dranginis. I definitely wouldn't have put my money on Wesley starting at the 3 because I wasn't sure Few would do it.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 10:56 AM
BTW Sabonas could be the left handed Kelly O. Minus the 3 point line.

In due course....not quite yet.

jim77
12-03-2014, 11:19 AM
Thought for the game: A half court shot has a better chance at producing points then a TURNOVER.

This is also the game where the 2 W's skills are REALLY needed. I'd like to see Wesley take it to the hole a few times to keep them honest. I also think Kyle W's length will really be needed...and Nunez could be a hero in this one....I hope Angel comes to play cause I think he's gonna get some minutes. Length is good. This team always has a shooter's chance....as long as they keep the ball long enough to get that shot. I'd like to see our offense pass less....maybe set 1 or 2 screens and then let err rip. MINIMIZE passing. I'd also advise Karno to just DUNK IT. Throwing it up for some weak bank shot is probably gonna get spanked.

Sabonis will do what Sabonis does....and hopefully he plays off just a bit to protect himself from fouls.(or at least till we find out how the refs are calling it) That's probably the reason he doesn't start. If the Zags can play smart and eek out a win....a top 5 ranking awaits. GO ZAGS!

P.S. Hang on to the ball...at least get a shot....is there an eccccho in here?

Baseline
12-03-2014, 12:12 PM
I am very disappointed with PK after being quite high on him at the end of last year. To me he has regressed. He plays at one speed (slow) and is not aggressive at either end of the court. I don't know what has happened to him, but i would start Domas or burn Ryan's red-shirt. I believe Ryan is the better of the two right now, and it will be obvious next year.
For the AZ game I would bench PK and play Domas with Angel his backup. for the game we need the 3's to start to open up the middle. Their big will be all over Domas to start, a tough load for a freshman.

bartruff1
12-03-2014, 12:15 PM
It is good to know Mark is making progress...perhaps someday he will be worthy of us...

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 12:18 PM
Right On! It's better to do something than to do nothing at all. We need Domas for the AZ game. PK has turned out to be a marshmellow. Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 12:34 PM
It is good to know Mark is making progress...perhaps someday he will be worthy of us...

Voice in the wilderness.

RenoZag
12-03-2014, 12:35 PM
For the AZ game I would bench PK and play Domas with Angel his backup. for the game we need the 3's to start to open up the middle. Their big will be all over Domas to start, a tough load for a freshman.



Absurd.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 12:35 PM
Right On! It's better to do something than to do nothing at all. We need Domas for the AZ game. PK has turned out to be a marshmellow. Go Zags!

Won't happen. The tutorial will go on and on.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 12:36 PM
Absurd.


Why? Pls explain.

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 12:39 PM
Absurd.

I agree that its absurd. I would start Sabonis, and play a lot of Nunez backing up Wiltjer, but its absurd to not have Karnowski play at all. He did show at least SOME success against Arizona last year. We will need his size for portions of the game. I would let Sabonis wear down Arizona hope he stays out of foul trouble, and let Karnowski be the finisher who gets easy looks at the basket.

Like you said though Jazz. The same tutorial will continue. There is no way that Few will let this happen. Oh well.

raise the zag
12-03-2014, 12:40 PM
As Tommy and Coach Few have being saying repeatedly,

Its unfortunate PK doesn't realize how good he is or can be, and its been near an impossible task to teach him to be nasty.

The same can't be said about Sabonis -- who is skilled, filthy, AND confident.

Karno is good, yet should be much more dominant than he is -- not a single Top-25 team with a 7'1", 285 lb Center...not a one.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 12:43 PM
I agree that its absurd. I would start Sabonis, and play a lot of Nunez backing up Wiltjer, but its absurd to not have Karnowski play at all. He did show at least SOME success against Arizona last year. We will need his size for portions of the game. I would let Sabonis wear down Arizona hope he stays out of foul trouble, and let Karnowski be the finisher who gets easy looks at the basket.

Like you said though Jazz. The same tutorial will continue. There is no way that Few will let this happen. Oh well.


I don't think anyone suggested K be benched, that is, not play at all. That is absurd. Just DS instead.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 12:45 PM
As Tommy and Coach Few have being saying repeatedly,

Its unfortunate PK doesn't realize how good he is or can be, and its been near an impossible task to teach him to be nasty.

The same can't be said about Sabonis -- who is skilled, filthy, AND confident.

Karno is good, yet should be much more dominant than he is -- not a single Top-25 team with a 7'1", 285 lb Center...not a one.


But this isn't a grammar school kid who "could do better," and would prosper from gentle prodding, it's big time college BB.

RenoZag
12-03-2014, 12:47 PM
Jazz,

Karnowski averages 6.4 boards per game, 8.3 points per game, has committed the same number of turnovers (11) as Sabonis & Nunez, and one less than Wesley (12).
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs


He takes up space in the middle, changes shots, alters things. He's not a world beater but he is an asset worth using. I think it would be absurd to bench him for the game, as suggested above by baseline in Post 91 of this very lively and entertaining pre-game discussion.

Beat the Wildcats.

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 12:51 PM
I don't think anyone suggested K be benched, that is, not play at all. That is absurd. Just DS instead.

Baseline suggested K be benched for the entire game.

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 12:53 PM
Baseline suggested K be benched for the entire game.

Well, that's as absurd as the snarky comment that Few is making progress and is worthy of our attention.

tinfoilzag
12-03-2014, 01:02 PM
Right On! It's better to do something than to do nothing at all. We need Domas for the AZ game. PK has turned out to be a marshmellow. Go Zags!

I posted this in Feb about last year's team but I think it holds true:

This is how Few has always been. He coaches to have a chance to win the game at the end. Reckless play has a big upside and downside so Few avoids it. That's why at tournament time we get knocked out by "high ceiling" teams that are cutting loose in a tourney that is almost always won by the "hot" team (every so often a team or player is so good their worst day is still good enough).

This philosophy dictates playing time. The criteria hierarchy for playing time goes something like this:
- In position on defense
- Running the offense correctly
- Taking care of the ball
- Taking good shots
- No stupid fouls

Things like steals, block shots, making high difficulty shots, dunks, are secondary because they are higher risk events. If you can do those things while meeting the first criteria, great, but they don't get you more playing time. This is why Few favors 3 guard lineups. This is why he loves David Stockton (a good player) even when tall guards are shooting essentially uncontested jump shots over him because of his size. Few figures he was in position, if they beat us with those shots, so be it. This is why a lot of players get frustrated in our system. They may be superior athletes or amazing playmakers but if they make mistakes, it's straight to the bench. Some guys play basketball largely on instinct and athletic ability; they won't see much time on Few's teams.

Few gets us to the dance every year with this formula. Be grateful for that as so many other programs would love to have our ESPN and tourney money. Yes it means that S16 is the ceiling but that is the price you pay for Few's style.

DixieZag
12-03-2014, 01:03 PM
I am very disappointed with PK after being quite high on him at the end of last year. To me he has regressed. He plays at one speed (slow) and is not aggressive at either end of the court. I don't know what has happened to him, but i would start Domas or burn Ryan's red-shirt. I believe Ryan is the better of the two right now, and it will be obvious next year.
For the AZ game I would bench PK and play Domas with Angel his backup. for the game we need the 3's to start to open up the middle. Their big will be all over Domas to start, a tough load for a freshman.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with play one way or another bc I think he's played very well. But, he's heavier this year and it doesn't look all that "good" heavier. I hope he isn't getting winded.

Zagcity
12-03-2014, 01:32 PM
I am very disappointed with PK after being quite high on him at the end of last year. To me he has regressed. He plays at one speed (slow) and is not aggressive at either end of the court. I don't know what has happened to him, but i would start Domas or burn Ryan's red-shirt. I believe Ryan is the better of the two right now, and it will be obvious next year.
For the AZ game I would bench PK and play Domas with Angel his backup. for the game we need the 3's to start to open up the middle. Their big will be all over Domas to start, a tough load for a freshman.

He's (PK) just getting warmed up by the end of the year I believe you will be singing a different tune. I realize this is not much help now come Sunday we will know.

Zagger
12-03-2014, 02:32 PM
Three players remember Arizona VERY well and of those I believe Mt. K will have the highest resolve to kick their butts. I've never seen Shemmick move like he did in last season's Arizona game. I expect a repeat this year. Pangos and Bell will be keen on avenging the loss as well. Saturday can't come soon enough. If Arizona beats the Zags it is because they are the better team. I don't believe this season's Arizona squad is better than this season's Zags. I also believe Few wants a win @ Arizona as much as any Zag player. Arizona will have its hands full.

upan8th
12-03-2014, 02:40 PM
Zags make 17 3's in 30 attempts, 15 of 18 free throws , allow fewer than 25 FTA's by AZ and GU wins 86-84. Not asking for much.

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 02:43 PM
Zagger

That was a nice story. This AZ game Saturday will be won and lost at the low post. Who do you want playing the last two minutes of the game PK or Sabonis? There are times PK can't find his a** with both hands at the foul line. Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
12-03-2014, 02:53 PM
Jazz,

Karnowski averages 6.4 boards per game, 8.3 points per game, has committed the same number of turnovers (11) as Sabonis & Nunez, and one less than Wesley (12).
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs


He takes up space in the middle, changes shots, alters things. He's not a world beater but he is an asset worth using. I think it would be absurd to bench him for the game, as suggested above by baseline in Post 91 of this very lively and entertaining pre-game discussion.

Beat the Wildcats.

Eye test, Reno, eye test. Benching was obviously hyperbole or meant to induce ranting.

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 02:54 PM
Well, that's as absurd as the snarky comment that Few is making progress and is worthy of our attention.

Good call Jazz. :agreed:

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 02:57 PM
Let's just say PK plays to much! And at the foul line he is worse.

dan71w
12-03-2014, 02:58 PM
last year not only where we a different team, but Gary and Kevin where beat up and hurt. we had David who was just too small against the likes of AZ. Dower with as good as he was, was largely inconsistent and not very good defense wise. It was no surprise we got the beat down; simply, we where a gimped team then.

This years team is much much improved in all areas of the game, we can score from any position, and each and every Zag is an offensive threat, last year teams sagged off of David, which allowed double teams against us, which AZ turned us over so hard because they did not need to chase us around at all positions.

The keys i think will make or break this game will be
turnovers, AZ relies on turn overs for much of there offense.
spread the floor, make them chase us all game, make them scared who is gonna get the shot off.
go at them hard in the paint, get there front line in foul trouble, before they get ours. play zone to protect our bigs, and force them to try and shoot from the outside.
and last and truthfully a big deal in my opinion, the ref's AZ is aggressive and mean, the fly around a lot and have sticky hands; if the refs call like in new york we will be in trouble early and will result in a blow out. if they allow our style of play, and allow our finesse then we win by double digits.

we are better in offense and defense this year, if we loose i feel it will be because of how the game is officiated.

by the way, if we loose it is only because they again have all those NBA players. truthfully i hate these teams that tend to get so much high level NBA level players year after year. something fishy about teams that accomplish this (duke, KU, AZ).

Arizona Zag
12-03-2014, 03:06 PM
Dan71w

Did you forget Kentucky?

dan71w
12-03-2014, 03:09 PM
Dan71w

Did you forget Kentucky?

yap, them bozos

RenoZag
12-03-2014, 05:10 PM
Eye test, Reno, eye test. Benching was obviously hyperbole or meant to induce ranting.

Perhaps baseline will tell us

Zagdawg
12-03-2014, 06:24 PM
Karnowski was one of the bright points in the game against Arizona last year. He scored 14 points and had 10 boards and 2 blocks--plus he was able to stay on the floor 30 mins-- he held Tarc to 6 points (4 pts below his average).

Add Sabonis to the mix -- they will be a solid team on the floor -- add Kyle to the mix and they have a whole new set of looks.

Our 4 bigs bring a great variety to the table -- it will be great to see how they match up against Arizona.

ZagLawGrad
12-03-2014, 06:42 PM
I'd be happy if we put someone in the circle to win the jump ball to start a game. Then let PK come in.

ZagLawGrad
12-03-2014, 06:47 PM
As Tommy and Coach Few have being saying repeatedly,

Its unfortunate PK doesn't realize how good he is or can be, and its been near an impossible task to teach him to be nasty.

The same can't be said about Sabonis -- who is skilled, filthy, AND confident.

Karno is good, yet should be much more dominant than he is -- not a single Top-25 team with a 7'1", 285 lb Center...not a one.

:agreed: especially the filthy part

FuManShoes
12-03-2014, 07:09 PM
I'd be happy if we put someone in the circle to win the jump ball to start a game. Then let PK come in.

I'm not sure we've won a jump ball in 5 years, or will win one anytime soon. Maybe we should start Griffin.

Zags11
12-03-2014, 07:18 PM
The hate on here for karno is sad and hypocritical by some. Its a damn shame.

Zags11
12-03-2014, 07:19 PM
I'm not sure we've won a jump ball in 5 years, or will win one anytime soon. Maybe we should start Griffin.

Yea and then watch him run down wildly and miss dunks. :lmao:

DixieZag
12-03-2014, 07:26 PM
The hate on here for karno is sad and hypocritical by some. Its a damn shame.

I see no hate. Especially as one who thinks he is playing better. What I see from others is some disagreement about where his game stands relative to Sabonis and what the two bring to the table.

There comes a point where if one is going to read fan boards the realization should set in that if there is no back and forth, reason and argument, it's not really worth reading. It becomes an echo chamber immersed in platitudes and no new considerations. Sometimes there'll be a mean-spirited quack, but those are rare.

Zagdawg
12-03-2014, 07:45 PM
The marshmallow and benching comments are all in good fun--- definitely not hate-- just a different opinion by a couple of "fans".

I like the energy Sabonis brings off the bench -- if he were starting he would be hitting the bench with his two fouls earlier in the half---- I can't wait until he can stay on the floor longer-- he will be an even bigger asset to the team.

Zags11
12-03-2014, 07:52 PM
I guess the hate is from last yr and some snarks this year. My apologies and yes i do think sabonis is better.

katman50
12-03-2014, 07:54 PM
The hate on here for karno is sad and hypocritical by some. Its a damn shame.

Hate is a pretty strong word for this discussion. I think the posters have presented a reasonable analysis of what Karno brings or doesn't bring to the game. I wish the guy the very best, but sometimes it appears he hasn't developed that much from last year. I believe he should continue to start. Don't want Sabonis starting and getting a couple of cheap fouls right off the bat. And I hope Karno has a great game!

FlagZag
12-03-2014, 08:09 PM
Last year we got bullied. It's that simple. The Cats play the basketball equivalent of smash mouth football. They drive the lane, knock you on your butt and then step on you on the way to the hole. Nothing dirty- just physical. Last year KP and Bell ended up on their backs in the lane half the time. Dower wanted nothing to do with it. The only player that didn't back down was Shem and he kicked ***. So this year its either man up or else. They don't respect us. Having said this, they can be beat. They don't shoot as well as us. They are vulnerable in the front court. I'll be there yelling my lungs out for the Zags. Few has got to get them ready for this one. It's going to be good.

bartruff1
12-03-2014, 08:40 PM
The marshmallow and benching comments are all in good fun--- definitely not hate-- just a different opinion by a couple of "fans".

I like the energy Sabonis brings off the bench -- if he were starting he would be hitting the bench with his two fouls earlier in the half---- I can't wait until he can stay on the floor longer-- he will be an even bigger asset to the team.


I think is is not only disgusting, it is cowardly....a couple of jerks that wouldn't have the courage to say that to his face...

U Zig, I Zag
12-03-2014, 08:50 PM
Last year we got bullied. It's that simple. The Cats play the basketball equivalent of smash mouth football. They drive the lane, knock you on your butt and then step on you on the way to the hole. Nothing dirty- just physical. Last year KP and Bell ended up on their backs in the lane half the time. Dower wanted nothing to do with it. The only player that didn't back down was Shem and he kicked ***. So this year its either man up or else. They don't respect us. Having said this, they can be beat. They don't shoot as well as us. They are vulnerable in the front court. I'll be there yelling my lungs out for the Zags. Few has got to get them ready for this one. It's going to be good.

Hey. Got me believing!

Reborn
12-03-2014, 09:13 PM
Jazz,

Karnowski averages 6.4 boards per game, 8.3 points per game, has committed the same number of turnovers (11) as Sabonis & Nunez, and one less than Wesley (12).
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs


He takes up space in the middle, changes shots, alters things. He's not a world beater but he is an asset worth using. I think it would be absurd to bench him for the game, as suggested above by baseline in Post 91 of this very lively and entertaining pre-game discussion.

Beat the Wildcats.

And we finally saw him dunk one last night. Yippie!!!

gonzagafan62
12-03-2014, 09:17 PM
I think is is not only disgusting, it is cowardly....a couple of jerks that wouldn't have the courage to say that to his face...

+1

Reborn
12-03-2014, 09:26 PM
I can understand how fans are frustrated by the play of Karnowski this year. PK played so good in his last game of the season last year (Arizona). I guess we expected more from him. He has been very clumsy this year, and imo, he has regressed and I'm not sure why. Not sure what he did last summer. His hands just seem horrible, as he seems to have a very hard time catching the ball. I will also say that at times he's looked very good. He was good the second half last night. He appeared to be clumsy in NYC. I just couldn't figure him out.

And then what has been most frustrating to me is that he continually gets in foul trouble, and from just plain 'ol stupid fouls. He has a very bad habit doing that, and now we see Domas doing it too. If that happens Saturday, and it sure could, then forget about a victory. These two guys need to learn the rules. I must admit that even though I am criticizing him I like him, and I believe when he is playing good he can really help the Zags. I just hope and pray he brings his A game Sunday. And he can. I definitely have not written him off. He needs to wake up though.

Go Zags!!!

dan71w
12-03-2014, 09:39 PM
In my opinion big K has been playing decent, we sometimes need to remember the games he has struggled have been small much faster and more athletic teams, quick hands that are constantly swatting at him. that is hard for a big guy, its frustrating, and often times that frustration is half what we are seeing in his production.Big K really can't do much if he is such a force that one wrong step from him will turn the others team center into a pancake.
Big K is there to take space, he is there to alter shots, and he does that just fine. He is at a disadvantage against these athletic agile fast centers he has gone up against so far this season. when he plays against a team that incorporates a typical back to the basket center, Big K will dominate.

zag buddy
12-03-2014, 10:01 PM
Karno will start all year. We need Sabonus to shoot free throws at the end of the game. It is critical.

maynard g krebs
12-03-2014, 11:53 PM
I say we start Sabonis and pray he stays out of foul trouble. I think this game will be way to fast for Karo. The trouble Karno has holding on to the ball could be turnover city. AZ is very athletic. We can not have that kind of game playing AZ.

Recipe for disaster. Likely 2 quick fouls and your options are limited for the rest of the game. That would be a desperation move and mess w/ team chemistry as well. He's perfect for the 6 th man role as a fr., comes in 3-4 minutes into the game and injects energy and disrupts the other team's rhythm on both ends. No matter how good he is, you don't make drastic changes in a game like this.

And you are failing to understand Karnowski's considerable contributions and value. He's the defensive anchor on this team, and is actually now rebounding at a slightly higher rate per minute, and per game, than Sabonis. Both avg 19.9 min per game, Karno 6.4 boards, DS 6.3

maynard g krebs
12-04-2014, 12:05 AM
Zagger

That was a nice story. This AZ game Saturday will be won and lost at the low post. Who do you want playing the last two minutes of the game PK or Sabonis? There are times PK can't find his a** with both hands at the foul line. Go Zags!

Agree with this one; I want Sabonis in the game down the stretch. And the way to increase the likelihood of that is to start PK, and reduce the likelihood of DS foul trouble.

maynard g krebs
12-04-2014, 12:17 AM
I like the energy Sabonis brings off the bench -- if he were starting he would be hitting the bench with his two fouls earlier in the half---- I can't wait until he can stay on the floor longer-- he will be an even bigger asset to the team.

This. He's a fr and adjusting to a new country and style of play. This is a deep and talented team, one through 11 when everybody's healthy/eligible. He doesn't have to be the savior or the star yet, even if he's the most talented guy.

As a fan, I go back to the days when Cunningham and Havlicek were game changing 6th men for the 76ers and Celts. Jack Ramsay and Red Auerbach, two of the greatest coaches in the history of the game, understood the dynamic of bringing one of your best offensive players into the game a few minutes after the start. The 6th man needs to be a game changer; both of the above were all stars coming off the bench. It works with the right guys, who are rare, and they can still play starter minutes if it's called for.

And ultimately, it's who finishes, not who starts.

The 6th man role is perfect for DS at this point in his career. Bench PK and, given his personality, you lose him, damage his shaky confidence, and the team is hurt going forward. Lucky we have coaches who understand the dynamics of the game better than some fans.

As to the marshmallow and benching comments being in good fun, though, no.

jim77
12-04-2014, 12:30 AM
Last year we got bullied. It's that simple. The Cats play the basketball equivalent of smash mouth football. They drive the lane, knock you on your butt and then step on you on the way to the hole. Nothing dirty- just physical. Last year KP and Bell ended up on their backs in the lane half the time. Dower wanted nothing to do with it. The only player that didn't back down was Shem and he kicked ***. So this year its either man up or else. They don't respect us. Having said this, they can be beat. They don't shoot as well as us. They are vulnerable in the front court. I'll be there yelling my lungs out for the Zags. Few has got to get them ready for this one. It's going to be good.

Nice post.

Know why Shem got so fired up last year against AZ...cause they get physical. The last place you want Shem to be is on the bench...I want to see the guy in there mixing it up...in fact he'll have no choice but, mix it up. The coaches might not know how to fire him up...but AZ does:). They don't respect us...is right...in fact, most teams consider us soft. Az is one of those teams that if you cower from them...you'll get blown out. Play tough or go home. Do you really think the refs are gonna call it close on AZ's home floor? It'll be a knock down drag out and we'll need Shem....Domantas...Wiltjer...Nunez and maybe a baseball bat for good measure. We can't play scared or nervous...just paly to win!

Shem on the bench??? Some of you need to wake up.

Baseline
12-04-2014, 12:36 AM
Perhaps baseline will tell us

I made the comment out of frustration and with tongue firmly in the cheek. I do not expect it to happen, nor would I actually do it if I was the coach, my primary motive was to see what people are thinking, it worked very well. I view it as a problem and problems can end in one game if he finds his aggressiveness. I view this as a very good team with very high potential, but to reach that potential PK is a HUGE part of the equation, just fishing!

seasontixholder
12-04-2014, 02:55 AM
PK is playing as well on the defensive end as he did last year. In addition, he has become a more coordinated athlete that rarely falls onto the floor like he did as a youngster.

Where he is struggling mentally is with his numbers, imo. Undoubtedly concerned about his own future career, he seems to be out of sorts trying to deal with the balanced makeup of this team that spreads touches more evenly than before.

I watch him a lot at the home games, away from the ball. He'll work like crazy in spurts, not see the ball delivered, and then go passive for awhile. Instead on constantly leaning on his opponent and wearing a lesser body out, he'll avoid contact (and cheap fouls, granted) and be content setting screens. But, most importantly, his shot has become errant. It is the most discouraging and negative aspect of his otherwise wonderful development. He doesn't optimize his size, and often flips up a shot either out of position or out of balance, basically forcing stuff too much, something just the opposite of Sabonis who repeats his strongest shot incessantly.

He's like a really good golfer with the yips, at the moment. He's a smart guy, hard worker, and probably will figure it out as the year goes on. And at this juncture, he is a more potent defender than all of our other bigs.

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 04:29 AM
Let's just say PK has a problem with most ALL of his game. Let's make it clear nobody hates this kid nobody is going to walk up to him and tell him what we think. This team has got much better 2X with 9 players. We HAVE NOT SEEN Karno improve. Forget his highlights which are so few. We are all looking for Karno to be more consistent and play like Sabonis. These are the bad things with his game, but first let me mention the GOOD THINGS for the ones who think we hate or picking on him. He fills good space down low, he's 7'-1" 285, (repeat of space) he will battle down low that's it. Now these are BAD THINGS-bad hands, bad feet, slow, sets lazy picks at 3 pt. line, can't run, can't jump, marginal for lay ups under the iron, won't dunk, can't win a jump ball, bad from the foul line we are seeing more foul trouble with him is there anything else wrong with his game? We all like PK as a kid but Few needs to make a decision with his game. We have Sabonis on the bench the Zags have never had a guy like this with his caliber as a freshman. The team plays better with Sabonis these are the cold hard facts. Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
12-04-2014, 04:31 AM
PK is playing as well on the defensive end as he did last year. In addition, he has become a more coordinated athlete that rarely falls onto the floor like he did as a youngster.

Where he is struggling mentally is with his numbers, imo. Undoubtedly concerned about his own future career, he seems to be out of sorts trying to deal with the balanced makeup of this team that spreads touches more evenly than before.

I watch him a lot at the home games, away from the ball. He'll work like crazy in spurts, not see the ball delivered, and then go passive for awhile. Instead on constantly leaning on his opponent and wearing a lesser body out, he'll avoid contact (and cheap fouls, granted) and be content setting screens. But, most importantly, his shot has become errant. It is the most discouraging and negative aspect of his otherwise wonderful development. He doesn't optimize his size, and often flips up a shot either out of position or out of balance, basically forcing stuff too much, something just the opposite of Sabonis who repeats his strongest shot incessantly.

He's like a really good golfer with the yips, at the moment. He's a smart guy, hard worker, and probably will figure it out as the year goes on. And at this juncture, he is a more potent defender than all of our other bigs.



Isn't that the definition of selfish?

Zagger
12-04-2014, 05:02 AM
Zagger

That was a nice story. This AZ game Saturday will be won and lost at the low post. Who do you want playing the last two minutes of the game PK or Sabonis? There are times PK can't find his a** with both hands at the foul line. Go Zags!
I may sound overly optimistic (stupid?) but I don't think it'll be that close in the last two mins :-) It may not matter whether it is PK or DS. I just really like what I saw from PK against Arizona. PK flat out moved, dribbled, and took good care of the ball - his play was somewhat similar to what we see in Sabonis. I don't know if it is a 'riled up' threshold that PK can reach or what. Maybe PK has a difference in 'flow' between game plan and instincts - and when his instincts take over he's a better player (???) just thinking out loud here. Anywho, I hope the Zag's score is enough ahead of Arizona's that it does not come down to a mess of fouls at the end. I believe that if the Zags are going to win this game it's going to be done by firepower O and sufficient D. The Zags are going to have to make a lot of their shots and not hesitate to take those shots.

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 05:20 AM
Zagger

I will give you the live up close report. I will be at the game Saturday second row on the baseline under the basket. This game will be similar to the game at Butler 2 years back which I also attended. I hope it doesn't end up the same way. The teams of which I mentioned we need a low post player as Kelly O. Sabonis is are best chance of winning in AZ. Go Zags!

BTB
12-04-2014, 06:42 AM
I'm not sure where I stand on the Karno debate right now. Last year I thought he was our most important player. This year it seems like he's taken a step back, but to be honest I'm not sure if it's his fault or the refs. Every time he gets physical it seems like he gets called for a foul. I don't see him bringing his hands down and swiping at the ball very often, most of his fouls are called when he decides to match opponents physicality. Then he gets discouraged and plays really passive defense/rebounding and opposing players still initiate contact with him and get calls occasionally. It would be hard to have any kind of rhythm when you can't play aggressively.

That being said, he's still really important for us and makes a big impact on the court even if he does make some poor plays. He's an overall positive over anyone on the bench not named Sabonis, and Sabonis can't play the whole game anyways. Shem tires them out and Sabonis comes in and takes over. I like it.

willandi
12-04-2014, 07:15 AM
What I would like to see in the last two minutes of Saturdays game against Rizona is, Shem blocking up the middle, changing shots, grabbing some boards and feeding our outside shooters. Sabonis rolling off of picks, grabbing the loose change and altering shots, Wiltjer posting back to the basket, floating out for mid-range jumpers and nailing the three, and all the while KP and Bell Jr, floating around the outside, disrupting the mind set of shooters (the ones that don't dare try to go inside), making pin-point passes to the three bigs and nailing the threes. Throw in a few runners, and its a recipe for success...and thats just in the last two minutes! We will hand them their 'A' back during the game.

Zagger
12-04-2014, 07:25 AM
I will give you the live up close report. I will be at the game Saturday second row on the baseline under the basket. This game will be similar to the game at Butler 2 years back which I also attended. I hope it doesn't end up the same way. The teams of which I mentioned we need a low post player as Kelly O. Sabonis is are best chance of winning in AZ. Go Zags!
Cool! It's going to be a great game to be at. My only worries are turnovers. Passing (and catching) has to be spot on. When any team moves the ball around (successfully) someone on D is going to be caught in a bad position. I'd love to see the Zags wear down Arizona and wear out their fans :-) Go Zags! Have a great time at the game Azag!

rennis
12-04-2014, 07:34 AM
I think some of this Karno conversation is comical - but I will add one thing to it: If Sabonis could keep his butt out of foul trouble, Karno could play a hell of a lot more aggressively, especially on defense. I for one have seen Karno holding back so far this year, and I think that's perhaps part of it. I think that needs to be noted.

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 07:51 AM
rennis

I don't mean to pick a bone, certainly not a Zag bone :-). But really, "comical" Sabonis is a freshman. He is learning to see how aggressive he can play from the Euopean league. Tell us ALL you don't see a difference in play from PK vs DS? You without a dought can tell who's father played professional ball. Few would never stand for any player of his holding back!Look at the complete stats DS is better in every category other than block shots. Go Zags.

rennis
12-04-2014, 08:01 AM
Of course I see a difference - they are completely different players!

Players ebb and tide throughout the season. A lot of people on this board were down on PK to start last season too, lest you forget. Then he went into West Virginia and laid the wood. I'm hoping for the same on Saturday.

Zagricultural
12-04-2014, 08:07 AM
Have you all watched the last three games? PK was constantly punished by the refs for being bigger than everybody else.

cjm720
12-04-2014, 08:15 AM
I like our chances with a healthy Pangos and the Bonus. Re: PK, he's a beast and every coach would want him. He and Sabonis complement each other.

bballbeachbum
12-04-2014, 08:17 AM
this thread gets 1 star? I liked the lively conversation though disagree with some, but that's what makes this board so much fun! and some great points about the game in here I thought

I just hope the refs have control of this one and call it relatively even but I have my doubts in their abilities to do so

therefore, every loose ball and rebound (and long rebound) in this game is even more a nugget of gold, and the bench needs to be ready to not only play and contribute but to be vital factors since I believe they will see a lot of minutes because of foul situations. Hope I'm wrong about the officiating but expect the BS, then overcome it

And Sabonis is great to have off the bench because of his energy and ability to insert himself right away without being set up imo, vs. bringing Karno off the bench who relies more on plays being run for him. The starting 5 can't come out and get into a quick hole tho and allow the fans to start freaking, need to hit the ground running

timely and accurate 3 point shooting once we collapse their D with post play and penetration could be the difference. Hope KP brings his Kennel shooting with him

bballbeachbum
12-04-2014, 08:18 AM
Re: PK, he's a beast and every coach would want him. He and Sabonis complement each other.

yes they do, a nice 1-2 punch down there

ZagLawGrad
12-04-2014, 08:18 AM
My view of Karno is that he is still inconsistent. Seems to lack intensity at times.

But he's a pretty good WCC player.

Saturday will give him a chance to show he's more than just that.

DixieZag
12-04-2014, 08:24 AM
I think Karno's a great player, a truly great and underappreciated center.

He is held back by his lack of aggressiveness. We've heard how the staff has practically begged him to be "Nasty."

But, I can see how a guy that bumps someone and gets a foul called on him might have a difficult time with the whole "nasty" motif side by side with not fouling himself out.

ETA: Oh, and I have absolutely where this "He's not playing very well" comes from. I thought that other than FTs, he's played at the same level as last year.

RenoZag
12-04-2014, 08:33 AM
On Friday it will have been five weeks since Karnowski lost his Uncle and Godmother. By the media accounts, he was very close to them. He's just turned 21 on 11/8. It's possible this is still weighing heavily on the big guy.

I hope he shines Saturday and the rest of his time in a Zags uniform. Seems to be a great teammate.

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 08:43 AM
Reno Zag

You explain what I feel could be the only explaination for PK play. I am very sorry for his loss. This can be hard for some kids. Gob Bless and I can say with experience time will heal all things. Thanks for sharing. I live in AZ didn't know that. Go Zags!

bballbeachbum
12-04-2014, 08:52 AM
On Friday it will have been five weeks since Karnowski lost his Uncle and Godmother. By the media accounts, he was very close to them. He's just turned 21 on 11/8. It's possible this is still weighing heavily on the big guy.

I hope he shines Saturday and the rest of his time in a Zags uniform. Seems to be a great teammate.

didn't know this. Man I hope he shines too and that the refs let him play!!! Do it Shem

siliconzag
12-04-2014, 09:23 AM
I begin with the following self revelation: my record as a prognosticator is suspect, even if I did predict the Zags would go down to Wichita State. I want to add the following, for those of you who don't know, I tend avoid joining the Kool aid crowd. I have long believed there is too much whiskey talk, and felt somewhat overly persuaded by it in the past, only to find myself bitterly disappointed come March. With those two confessions in mind, I want to say that I think the Zags have a decent chance to beat Arizona.

Let's look at this logically. UCI, admittedly a good scrappy team, gave the Wildcats fits. SDSU nearly beat the Zags to the punch. I think Hollis is a horse and could give us fits. He is much quicker than PK. If the Zags play defense with their feet (something they do occasionally, but not consistently), and if the emphasis is defense, especially help side, they can and should win this game. Arizona is ripe for an upset. Many of their most fervent fans will not even be there, siince they are playing in the PAC 12 football championship against the Ducks. Besides their fans have a tendency to sit on their hands when they are behind. I have had egg on my face before and will again, but this time, I say Zags prevail. It is all predicated on preparation, especially defense, but I think they can beat Arizona. Incidentally, I don't much care for Sean Miller. Remember when he came to the defense of his former team after the rivalry game between his former Xavier Musketeers and Cincy turned into a boxing match? He lost me right there.

gonzagafan62
12-04-2014, 09:43 AM
I begin with the following self revelation: my record as a prognosticator is suspect, even if I did predict the Zags would go down to Wichita State. I want to add the following, for those of you who don't know, I tend avoid joining the Kool aid crowd. I have long believed there is too much whiskey talk, and felt somewhat overly persuaded by it in the past, only to find myself bitterly disappointed come March. With those two confessions in mind, I want to say that I think the Zags have a decent chance to beat Arizona.

Let's look at this logically. UCI, admittedly a good scrappy team, gave the Wildcats fits. SDSU nearly beat the Zags to the punch. I think Hollis is a horse and could give us fits. He is much quicker than PK. If the Zags play defense with their feet (something they do occasionally, but not consistently), and if the emphasis is defense, especially help side, they can and should win this game. Arizona is ripe for an upset. Many of their most fervent fans will not even be there, siince they are playing in the PAC 12 football championship against the Ducks. Besides their fans have a tendency to sit on their hands when they are behind. I have had egg on my face before and will again, but this time, I say Zags prevail. It is all predicated on preparation, especially defense, but I think they can beat Arizona. Incidentally, I don't much care for Sean Miller. Remember when he came to the defense of his former team after the rivalry game between his former Xavier Musketeers and Cincy turned into a boxing match? He lost me right there.

I would still be at the basketball game if I was a Cats fan. The championship game is on Friday (tomorrow) and its not that long of a travel to get back home the next day for the basketball game. I would do it anyway. Maybe you are right.

Zag_Dad
12-04-2014, 09:51 AM
I begin with the following self revelation: my record as a prognosticator is suspect, even if I did predict the Zags would go down to Wichita State. I want to add the following, for those of you who don't know, I tend avoid joining the Kool aid crowd. I have long believed there is too much whiskey talk, and felt somewhat overly persuaded by it in the past, only to find myself bitterly disappointed come March. With those two confessions in mind, I want to say that I think the Zags have a decent chance to beat Arizona.

Let's look at this logically. UCI, admittedly a good scrappy team, gave the Wildcats fits. SDSU nearly beat the Zags to the punch. I think Hollis is a horse and could give us fits. He is much quicker than PK. If the Zags play defense with their feet (something they do occasionally, but not consistently), and if the emphasis is defense, especially help side, they can and should win this game. Arizona is ripe for an upset. Many of their most fervent fans will not even be there, siince they are playing in the PAC 12 football championship against the Ducks. Besides their fans have a tendency to sit on their hands when they are behind. I have had egg on my face before and will again, but this time, I say Zags prevail. It is all predicated on preparation, especially defense, but I think they can beat Arizona. Incidentally, I don't much care for Sean Miller. Remember when he came to the defense of his former team after the rivalry game between his former Xavier Musketeers and Cincy turned into a boxing match? He lost me right there.

I think this will be an amazing game between two of the top teams on the West Coast. However, I'm not taking much away from the fact that SDSU almost beat them. That game was on a neutral court... we play them in Tucson. BIG DIFFERENCE. I like the way these teams match up... great defense against great offense. I'm confident this won't be a blow out.

Can't wait for Saturday to arrive.

GO ZAGS!

maynard g krebs
12-04-2014, 11:32 AM
I think some of this Karno conversation is comical

Excellent choice of words, without a "dought".

maynard g krebs
12-04-2014, 11:35 AM
!Look at the complete stats DS is better in every category other than block shots.

And rebounds, though by a very slight margin. The Zags need both; it's not either/or.

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 11:56 AM
Check it out go to this link and check out how comical it is DS vs PK. Remember Sabonis is a freshman. Go Zags.


http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=przemek-karnowski&p1=domantas-sabonis

seasontixholder
12-04-2014, 12:53 PM
Isn't that the definition of selfish?

Only a dingbat troll without any basketball experience or awareness would not realize that every player and coach on that floor as an element of self-interest motivating them to improve and succeed. PK is no different, and seems to have more "team" in him than some other premier players that have gone through this program. That being said, pure alltruism is not the primary driving force within the best players of the game. Fact of life.

You need to sharpen your trolling skills. You're stretching badly these days.

TheGonzagaFactor
12-04-2014, 01:22 PM
Check it out go to this link and check out how comical it is DS vs PK. Remember Sabonis is a freshman. Go Zags.


http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=przemek-karnowski&p1=domantas-sabonis

Yeah I don't think that's what he meant by "comical." Sabonis and Karno will both play a lot and both will help us. Karno hasn't progressed like most had hoped (at least not yet) but we still need him. I just find it funny how people are being so hard on him. I've seen multiple suggestions of starting DS over Karno. Who cares? They will both play a lot. I doubt any of our opinions on Domas/PK or our arguments about who should start will affect Few's decision or gameplan. Let it go.

I actually think PK and Sabonis play really well together. Same with Wiltjer and PK. Karno keeps the other team's biggest guy off of DS/KW on both ends of the floor which is very important. I also think Sabonis plays better from the PF position than he does at center. I'm sure if Few thought benching PK or just starting DS over him would win the game, it would happen... but he doesn't, so it won't.

ZagLawGrad
12-04-2014, 01:28 PM
Only a dingbat troll without any basketball experience or awareness would not realize that every player and coach on that floor as an element of self-interest motivating them to improve and succeed. PK is no different, and seems to have more "team" in him than some other premier players that have gone through this program. That being said, pure alltruism is not the primary driving force within the best players of the game. Fact of life.

You need to sharpen your trolling skills. You're stretching badly these days.

Good grief..dingbat troll?

Lighten up, Francis.

Francis The Goat Brother
12-04-2014, 01:41 PM
Good grief..dingbat troll?

Lighten up, Francis.

Francis iz not hear tooday. Plz mak shire ewe leeve a voicemail....

ZagLawGrad
12-04-2014, 01:48 PM
Francis iz not hear tooday. Plz mak shire ewe leeve a voicemail....

Meant Frances, sorry Francis. :lmao:

zag67
12-04-2014, 01:51 PM
OK, I have stayed out, but I have to add one thing. I have just got through rewatching the games on ESPN3 (Georgia and St Johns). Many of the problems with Shem's point production is that we are not getting the ball down low. All of our bigs are working down there and they are not getting it as many times as they should. Pangos is doing a great job, but we do not have David Stockton also throwing those passes to the low post players. All of our bigs are working to get open, but if you watch, we are missing them 3 out of 4 times. DS gets many of his on multiple moves and I think that Shem will get there. Mostly it looks like many of them are afraid to have a turnover and therefore not making the pass. Both Shem and Sabonis really getting some cheap fouls called early in the game. They both need to be prepared for this and watch at not getting the ticky-tacky fouls.

Also on Defense, Shem is disrupting their shots as they come down the middle. He might not be getting blocks but he is disrupting them. On offense he is getting some great assists (and some turnovers trying to make the pass to the low post) and setting some great picks.

seacatfan
12-04-2014, 01:53 PM
Let's look at this logically. UCI, admittedly a good scrappy team, gave the Wildcats fits. SDSU nearly beat the Zags to the punch.

Arizona has definitely been less than impressive in several of their wins. Having a close, hard fought win against SDSU is hardly a surprise. The Aztecs have undoubtedly been one of the best West Coast teams for a number of years now. They play a similar style to Arizona, they are almost mirror images of each other. They have played each other often (4 times in the last 3 years), and all of the games have been close. Anyway GU was rolling along until they went to NYC and had their hands full with a pair of athletic, physical teams that aren't nearly as good as Arizona.

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 02:08 PM
My prediction from my seat under the basket at the McKale Center GU wins 69-65. Do we have any others? Go Zags.

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-04-2014, 02:47 PM
My prediction from my seat under the basket at the McKale Center GU wins 69-65. Do we have any others? Go Zags.

Zags win going away 87 - 73. 27 from KW, who proves to be a matchup nightmare for AZ.

seacatfan
12-04-2014, 02:55 PM
Zags win going away 87 - 73. 27 from KW, who proves to be a matchup nightmare for AZ.

I don't see that. Brandon Ashley is a lanky, long armed 6-8 or 6-9, good foot speed, can play D on the interior or the perimeter. He seems tailor made for guarding Wiltjer. Not saying KW is going to get shut down, but matchup nightmare seems a stretch. Even Rondae Hollis-Jefferson could probably D up Wiltjer. He's 6-7 but with really long arms and he's used to guarding taller players. He's strong, too, much more physical than KW.

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 04:26 PM
seacatfan

Just yesterday I was looking at the player stat charts that the NCAA posts. All the players you mentioned all started doing very well from the beginning of the season. As the season has moved on there proformance has regressed with each game to current as I remember. This is a good thing for the Zags. Do you remember the game at Butler 2 years ago? I think the AZ game may be similar to that, but with the Zags pulling out the win in Tucson. Go Zags.

seacatfan
12-04-2014, 04:42 PM
I don't remember much of the specifics about the Butler game. It was hard fought and a tough game. The Zags snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in that one, didn't they?

Arizona Zag
12-04-2014, 04:55 PM
seacatfan

Yes, I was at that game. Still hard to talk about. Kelly O was definitely fouled without question. I't still think the clock ran out for that buzzer beater shot. I think we won! Go Zags.

seacatfan
12-04-2014, 05:09 PM
Where would we be without denial? I'm still in a bit of denial over Arizona blowing a 15 point lead against Illinois w/ 4 minutes to go in a Tourney game in '05, then losing in OT. I think the Gonzaga-UCLA debacle was the following year. I don't think I've ever quite recovered from those 2 games.

RenoZag
12-04-2014, 05:58 PM
You need to sharpen your trolling skills. You're stretching badly these days.

jazz isn't a troll. He's the designated curmudgeon.

willandi
12-04-2014, 06:36 PM
I would still be at the basketball game if I was a Cats fan. The championship game is on Friday (tomorrow) and its not that long of a travel to get back home the next day for the basketball game. I would do it anyway. Maybe you are right.

Its only a 2-3 hour flight in your private jet!

Reborn
12-04-2014, 10:18 PM
IMO neither BYU nor San Diego St have the bigs that GU has. They just make the difference if they stay out of foul trouble, and they will. It just might be Arizona who gets into foul trouble and sits on the pine a lot. Did you ever think of that? Would be nice to have Hollis-Jefferson on the bench. Or Stan the man Johnson.
Go Zags!!!! All the way!!! The Best is Yet to Come!!!

bigblahla
12-05-2014, 05:09 AM
jazz isn't a troll. He's the designated curmudgeon.

I'll drink to that(coffee at 5am)....don't always agree but appreciate Jazz's perspective....he's our DC....now that's a scary thought. ;)

jazzdelmar
12-05-2014, 05:22 AM
I'll drink to that(coffee at 5am)....don't always agree but appreciate Jazz's perspective....he's our DC....now that's a scary thought. ;)

Thx, Blah.....5am kawfee here as well....but w a Keurig so it seems wasteful to load another pod...sigh! Btw, I was not saying K is selfish, merely responding to a poster who implied as much. Suspect reading skills, i suppose.

VaBeachZAG
12-05-2014, 05:25 AM
seacatfan

Just yesterday I was looking at the player stat charts that the NCAA posts. All the players you mentioned all started doing very well from the beginning of the season. As the season has moved on there proformance has regressed with each game to current as I remember. This is a good thing for the Zags. Do you remember the game at Butler 2 years ago? I think the AZ game may be similar to that, but with the Zags pulling out the win in Tucson. Go Zags.

I am not counting on the regression factor. If ever there was an early season game for Arizona to put it all together, this is it (top ten matchup on their home floor). Someone earlier made the observation that Arizona doesn't respect the Zags and, on a psychological level, I think that is the only edge GU may have going into this game. As to Butler, let's not forget that their best player didn't even suit up for that game and they still beat us (even if the winning shot may have been controversial in the eyes of some).

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-05-2014, 05:46 AM
I don't see that. Brandon Ashley is a lanky, long armed 6-8 or 6-9, good foot speed, can play D on the interior or the perimeter. He seems tailor made for guarding Wiltjer. Not saying KW is going to get shut down, but matchup nightmare seems a stretch. Even Rondae Hollis-Jefferson could probably D up Wiltjer. He's 6-7 but with really long arms and he's used to guarding taller players. He's strong, too, much more physical than KW.

Good call seacatfan.....I gotta admit to posting without researching on that one. I thought AZ was a bunch of 6'5"-6'7" players outside of their center Tarczewski. Still hopeful KW shows up with his low-post A game and is able to score on the block before stretching the D and knocking down some 3's.

T minus 32 hrs and 30 minutes to game time..

Arizona Zag
12-05-2014, 08:04 AM
Has anyone seen the betting line for the GU vs AZ game?

AnonAzZagTemp
12-05-2014, 08:57 AM
Nice forum, and yes I am the enemy, but respectful...looks exactly like every other team forum except Ucla where they eat their own...

First much respect to the program here, Mark Few is just that one of the Few who have a history and consistency to build a program in such a highly competitive environment that is serious and admirable.

When I stand back and look at what he has done I think it is no flattery to say he is one of the top 10 coaches in college basketball and has been for a while, to consider that he manages to take teams deep with such limited resources is remarkable (no slant intended to Zag players)...I don't think Calipari or Bill Self and certianly not Mike Krezhinsiyleus%6(*& (HOWEVER YOU SAY dOOKS COACHES NAME) would even be heard of if they had been limited to the recruits and budget that Few has had, in the grand scope of things he's better with his resources than about 90% of the current lot...

That being said...MOST coaches in the top 10 are working with NBA level players...Few manages to be competitive with lower tier tools so he gets my respect.

But like all coaches he has his quirks that fans have to abide...we saw less than 30 seconds of Zona playing "Zone" the other night...almost all the Az fans checked the window to make sure the Apocalypse had not occurred because Miller NEVER plays Zone...(and at the presser he laughed and said it will now be another 5 years before we see it again)...Few seems to have a a stubborn streak as well, not sure if it's a liability or blessing but fouls are going to be an issue for ALL the bigs in this game.

Kenpom stats shows refs across the board calling more fouls and much earlier in the games this year, it feels like playing in peanut butter, but we all need to get used to it because that IS the way it's going this year...ticky tacky fouls outside are being called but in the paint they seem to be letting them beat up each other...all of the bigs will get fouls in this game but very few of them coming in the paint.

We will foul at least 1 maybe 2 three point shots against you...our freshman big will lag off a shooter, and you guys will score against him them the next time he will foul and you guys will score at the FT line...just gonna happen.

In a three point war you guys win...no question...but our guards are not gonna let that happen and the wings are freakishly athletic...expect at least 3 fouls shooting threes...

So the way I see the game shaping up is both coaches pushing a post game...you guys will zone, there is no way you match up physically man to man, I'm sorry you are good but we have at least 3 NBA bodies on the floor at all times, so it will be zone, you will probably double up on our big and lately he has the same problem as yours in that he catches the ball/pass/starts way to far away from where he should...but Zues (Tarczewski) has kind of grown up with this (He is full 7' and now just 5% body fat) and for the most part just passes out of it...if he tries a bounce pass you get the ball, if he passes over you to a wing we will score on you driving to the rim.

Rondae Hollis Jefferson is probably the best player we have, and he comes off the bench, by his own decision...he WILL dunk on you at least once in this game trying to get on ESPN (the east coast syracuse duke network)...when he played against the BIGGEST center in college BB (UC-I giant dude 7'6") he posterized him...he just has a knack for intimidating dunks...

I'm not saying you guys can't hang with us, it will be close for a good part of the game, we fans refer to them as the "heart-attack-cats" because well...we basically suck in the first half of every game we've ever played. You guys might be able to build what in most houses would be a comfortable lead, but remember this is Az...for some reason if they are not behind in the game at some point they don't play as well (I think they would come out and fall behind a Div.II girls team it just makes no sense, we've come to accept it)

Where I think we beat you up is our wings and the new guys...Stanley Johnson is a beast, 245 pounds of natural athletic 2nd generation talent, his coach described him as the best player to come out of his school and get this he has not lost a game for over 2 years...not one...the last 70 games in high school he basically put the entire team on his back and won...he is starting to show that role at Az...

True we could never replace Nick J defensively he was probably one of the most underrated players in his career (finally did win Pac-12 POY his final year)..Aaron Gordon CAN be replaced, but what Nick brought in leadership was an intangible we are still struggling to replace...

Defensively we are not as good as we should be...we are not really #3 in our own opinion...we do belong up there somewhere but this game will go a long way in determining where exactly.

McKale will be full...no empty seats because of the PAC-12 football game I assure you...

Commentators for the game will irritate us all...but the good news is Bill Walton will not be "riding the quasar to the top of the mountain" on this one...

I expect it to be good but freakishly sludgy due to the refs...

I expect you guys to have one player come out of the woodworks and have a great game against us, possibly dropping threes like flies in a taco stand...

But in the end I think our wings frustrate the hell out of you, our bench to provide the extra discretionary cash to buy a win and another great game making Sunday seem like going to church is a good idea.

In the last few games when our starters went to the bench we were up maybe 2 or even down a little when the bench came in (not counting RHJ as bench here)...when they sat down each time we were up at least 6-10...

Your new "not from the USA" big freshman (what in the hell is happening in Europe to grow these guys, someone needs to bring a geiger counter to the game) will have his best game of the year...possibly ending Fews stranglehold on who starts...(unlikely I know)...

I suggest both sets of fans go ahead and head on down to the plexi-glass store and buy a TV screen protector because we are all going to be throwing things at the screen over the BS calls being made...it's going to be a very long season if you have any sense of "fairness/justice" the refs are going to make it intolerable...and no I don't say that as someone who wants to see it get physical, that sword cuts both ways, what is frustrating is the lack of consistency by the Zebras...

If you win, I will come back and congratulate you, Miller is absolutely NOT underestimating your program or coach...if not well, I still expect you guys to get to the dance and win your conference, you are an honest #9 playing against a very questionable #3...good luck, and enjoy as much as you can...

Peace.

amaronizag
12-05-2014, 09:35 AM
Great post AnonAzZagTemp. I agree that your athletic bigs will decide the game. I fear Johnson and Jefferson. If you stop our transition game and take away the 3 point shot, we will get dominated in the paint by your athleticism. If we can run and gun and knock down some 3's we can win by out scoring you. It's also possible we drive hard and get you in some foul trouble. I see ways we can win and ways we can lose. Should be a great game. I hope the score stays close and the game is as exciting as expected.

Reborn
12-05-2014, 09:41 AM
Nice forum, and yes I am the enemy, but respectful...looks exactly like every other team forum except Ucla where they eat their own...

If you win, I will come back and congratulate you, Miller is absolutely NOT underestimating your program or coach...if not well, I still expect you guys to get to the dance and win your conference, you are an honest #9 playing against a very questionable #3...good luck, and enjoy as much as you can...

Peace.

I'm glad to see your confidence, and I expect AZ fans are more confident in their team then Gonzaga fans are confident in the Zags winning. However, I am one who is as confident in our Zags are you are in your Wildcats. It's going to be a great game, and the refs won't decide it. Our post players are better then you think. And you didn't see a healthy Kevin Pangos or Gary Bell last year. I think you're in for a surprise. Good luck.

Go Zags!!!

AnonAzZagTemp
12-05-2014, 09:51 AM
Great post AnonAzZagTemp. I agree that your athletic bigs will decide the game. I fear Johnson and Jefferson. If you stop our transition game and take away the 3 point shot, we will get dominated in the paint by your athleticism. If we can run and gun and knock down some 3's we can win by out scoring you. It's also possible we drive hard and get you in some foul trouble. I see ways we can win and ways we can lose. Should be a great game. I hope the score stays close and the game is as exciting as expected.

I think one of the things people miss is we were 21-0 with Ashley, we did not lose til we lost him...most people compare this years team to last years "late season" team...but Ashley is back and these first few games has been basically just getting his rhythm back...like ALL NBA future types he wants to get noticed, we have not really needed him to do to much except defend and rebound yet and he has been pretty good at that...but Ashley is one of our "zone-negators"...he has a really good 17' pop out shot, he does not depend on driving to score, both he and Stanley have very respectable 3-point games (Stanley has brought that lately quite accurately) I really expect him to be the "X" factor if he can stay out of foul trouble, which almost ALL of the time is him picking up defense that someone else has dropped, almost all of his fouls are cleaning up someone elses missed assignment...IF the rest of the team stays focused and plays D he will not be in foul trouble...Pango can have a huge game we really don't care, the last game the PG made 10-3's and we still won handily...Wesley may come in with a grudge and play great...

If you get 4 players having a top shelf game you can beat us...but all 4 will need to score at least 12-16 each...

One or two will not be enough, unless of course we come out and play crap the ENTIRE game instead of just the first 15 minutes...

I think one of the things that makes Az good that also gets over-looked is our conditioning...our conditioning coach is one of the best in the country in my opinion, he has those guys all playing and improving lack mad, he is part witch doctor as far as I'm concerned, our new PG is a small little guy he has already put on 25# and improved his shot, in 13 minutes the last game he had 1-fewer assist than TJ did the entire game...I think as you watch our games we are known for "wearing teams down"...this is as much about conditioning as it is style of play

Or maybe they just come out and start without much energy so they save it for the end, I dunno...it's college basketball who knows for sure...

dan71w
12-05-2014, 09:56 AM
great post
AnonAzZagTemp

thanks for stopping in and sharing

AnonAzZagTemp
12-05-2014, 10:01 AM
I'm glad to see your confidence, and I expect AZ fans are more confident in their team then Gonzaga fans are confident in the Zags winning. However, I am one who is as confident in our Zags are you are in your Wildcats. It's going to be a great game, and the refs won't decide it. Our post players are better then you think. And you didn't see a healthy Kevin Pangos or Gary Bell last year. I think you're in for a surprise. Good luck.

Go Zags!!!

Well we wouldn't really be fans if we were not confident in our teams winning...so back atcha...it will be good...

I was worried (and rightly so) about SDSU, it was basically an inner squad skirmish, we've played them so often...probably one of the worst called basketball games I have ever seen.

I am seriously worried about you Zags as well, you are an honest #8/9 if not better (not that anyone would notice the polls never ever look west anymore) and since I have not watched much of your playing this year...

No matter what you guys move up in the polls...how much is yet to be seen, SDSU went up after losing to us, so yes there are "moral" victories...

CDC84
12-05-2014, 12:04 PM
Still feel that Zona last year with Ashley was the best team in the country and would've won the national title.

rennis
12-05-2014, 02:16 PM
Still feel that Zona last year with Ashley was the best team in the country and would've won the national title.

This.

rennis
12-05-2014, 02:17 PM
I think one of the things that makes Az good that also gets over-looked is our conditioning...our conditioning coach is one of the best in the country in my opinion, he has those guys all playing and improving lack mad, he is part witch doctor as far as I'm concerned, our new PG is a small little guy he has already put on 25# and improved his shot, in 13 minutes the last game he had 1-fewer assist than TJ did the entire game...I think as you watch our games we are known for "wearing teams down"...this is as much about conditioning as it is style of play


I have definitely noticed that, and have meant to look into it more. Is he associated with Lance Armstrong???

Bogozags
12-05-2014, 02:23 PM
Still feel that Zona last year with Ashley was the best team in the country and would've won the national title.


Yes, they were a dominant team last year and could of won the NC had he not been injured...this year though they will miss Johnson...he was just amazing on how he could change his motor when the team needed him too!

AnonAzZagTemp
12-05-2014, 02:38 PM
I have definitely noticed that, and have meant to look into it more. Is he associated with Lance Armstrong???

I honestly have no idea, but I watched a video on Ashleys rehab and it seems mostly he just makes them work extremely hard...conditioning is not "weight gain", it is conditioning...he knows physiology, remember UofA is a HUGE Medical school, tons of money and resource for physical development that don't have to be "Lance Armstrongish"...

Plus this year our bench is WAAAY deeper than last year...Miller has used quite a bit of bench in the last few games which is unusual...he typically plays a short rotation, maybe 7-8 tops...

I expect a limited rotation against you guys though, fouls will be an issue for both teams...but the end of the game conditioning is done during the off season...

raise the zag
12-05-2014, 02:42 PM
Still feel that Zona last year with Ashley was the best team in the country and would've won the national title.

Feel 100% certain they are going to win it this year. Just a feeling. . .

If AZ featured a bit better shooting from their guards, they'd be the best team, imho. At least most balanced in pure talent and experience i.e. most dangerous.

Best collection of wings in nation, best defense in nation, arguably the best talent, not named Kentucky.

I mean they are bringing Stanley Johnson (Top-5) player off their bench.

Zags can shoot with Arizona, even play with them on neutral court, yet highly doubt ANY Top-15 team could beat them on their home floor.

I have a ton of confidence in this year's Zag team, I sincerely do, yet not worthy of beating a Top-2 type team on the road, a true road game. heck, ANY team in D1 struggles to win away from home.

If GU can keep this within 15, I'd be tickled pink. And tell/show me they are improved from last season's 24 point drubbing. Anything within 10 moves us up and/or maintains are ranking in the polls. no joke either.

Reborn
12-05-2014, 02:43 PM
If Gonzaga loses, they will NOT go up in the polls. Believe this. USDS was rated around #20 before the game with you. One other thing, Gonzaga is better then USDS. Zags would win on the road I believe. It would be tough to win in your house, but if anyone can do it, this Gonzaga team can. One thing both teams have in common is that they will not give up, and it will be one heck of a fight....to the very end. They are both winners and elite one's at that. Tough mentally. Great coaches. It's going to be a very good game for sure, and may be the best prior to the NCAA tournament for both teams. I just like Pangos and Bell a little more then your guards. I believe that on the spirit level it's going to be Pangos vs Jefferson. Those are the two toughest guys to beat, imo. And both are very very very good. I'm looking forward to the battle. I'm a guard so I always pull for them in these battles. And believe it or not, Kevin Pangos is very tough. He proved that last year.

Go Zags!!!

gonzagafan62
12-05-2014, 03:12 PM
Feel 100% certain they are going to win it this year. Just a feeling. . .

If AZ featured a bit better shooting from their guards, they'd be the best team, imho. At least most balanced in pure talent and experience i.e. most dangerous.

Best collection of wings in nation, best defense in nation, arguably the best talent, not named Kentucky.

I mean they are bringing Stanley Johnson (Top-5) player off their bench.

Zags can shoot with Arizona, even play with them on neutral court, yet highly doubt ANY Top-15 team could beat them on their home floor.

I have a ton of confidence in this year's Zag team, I sincerely do, yet not worthy of beating a Top-2 type team on the road, a true road game. heck, ANY team in D1 struggles to win away from home.

If GU can keep this within 15, I'd be tickled pink. And tell/show me they are improved from last season's 24 point drubbing. Anything within 10 moves us up and/or maintains are ranking in the polls. no joke either.

+1 I really believe the difference from 1-4 and 5 through the rest is A BIG DIFFERNCE from previous years. Kentucky, Arizona, Duke, Wisconsin are clearly the face of CBK this season. Its going to be tough for anyone to knock them off, especially Gonzaga at their place in Tucson.

AnonAzZagTemp
12-05-2014, 03:22 PM
If Gonzaga loses, they will NOT go up in the polls. Believe this. USDS was rated around #20 before the game with you. One other thing, Gonzaga is better then USDS. Zags would win on the road I believe. It would be tough to win in your house, but if anyone can do it, this Gonzaga team can. One thing both teams have in common is that they will not give up, and it will be one heck of a fight....to the very end. They are both winners and elite one's at that. Tough mentally. Great coaches. It's going to be a very good game for sure, and may be the best prior to the NCAA tournament for both teams. I just like Pangos and Bell a little more then your guards. I believe that on the spirit level it's going to be Pangos vs Jefferson. Those are the two toughest guys to beat, imo. And both are very very very good. I'm looking forward to the battle. I'm a guard so I always pull for them in these battles. And believe it or not, Kevin Pangos is very tough. He proved that last year.

Go Zags!!!

No one here is discounting Pangos, in Millers presser he made mention of the fact that last years NCAA game was a huge anomaly for BOTH teams, he said it was basically a perfect storm of conditions for us and he feels Pangos is a serious threat...as well Wiljer and your bigs...I think the one disadvantage Pangos has is not having a direct replacement now, playing 36 minutes against us will be hard and if the game comes down to the last 5 minutes your rotation is gonna be a liability at Mckale...but like I've hinted at before playing a team with a great PG is not that big a deal for us Strange hit 10-3 pointers against us and it didn't matter in our last game...and the center had another 15 points...I still think you need at least 4 players to have a monster game at once, but I will give you this, you are physically matching up better than perhaps anyone in the west not name SDSU...

I think having 2 seniors and juniors gives you something to take off the "away" edge but with refs giving home court advantage (yes I admit that) being away and depending on newbies on a hostile stage stacks the deck against you enough to eek out a victory for the cats...and yes you are right you probably won't move in polls unless you win...

seacatfan
12-05-2014, 03:42 PM
I mean they are bringing Stanley Johnson (Top-5) player off their bench.


Johnson is starting but Hollis-Jefferson is coming off the bench. According to all the broadcasts I've seen so far Hollis-Jefferson requested to Coach Miller that he not start. I'd rather see him on the floor to start the game.

gbnyba17
12-05-2014, 03:56 PM
[QUOTE=AnonAzZagTemp;1056087]but like I've hinted at before playing a team with a great PG is not that big a deal for us Strange hit 10-3 pointers against us and it didn't matter in our last game...QUOTE]

AnonAzZagTemp - thanks for coming and joining the board, I always enjoy hearing from our opponents fans. your insight is good, appreciated, and you seem to be fairly knowledgeable about the Zags. One thing I disagree with is the point you keep brining up about GW hitting 10 3s against AZ and it not mattering. Your logic is flawed because your completely ignoring the fact that the ZAGS are likely a much better team than GW. I can almost guarantee you one thing, if the Zags hit 10 3s we will come out on top (or at least be within striking distance in the final minute). the reason being... it won't be just the 10 3s that did AZ in but also the sum of the many other parts to our team. GW doesn't have those other parts.

I think the key to the game will be physicality. you guys completely overwhelmed us last year with your pressure D and athleticsm. If the zags haven't found a way to better deal with this then the results will be similar to last March.

Thanks again for contributing and I hope you continue until tip-off.

Zagger
12-05-2014, 04:05 PM
Nice to hear some skinny about Arizona from AAZT. I love to hear this kind of banter amongst fans! College basketball is fun! I've got some foam bricks I'd better take home from work today for watching tomorrow. But .... chancing having to eat crow or hat - Arizona will have it's hands full with these Zags. There's something about determination that's also afoot in College BB games. There's no quit in this Zags bunch. If Arizona does play sloppy and the Zags get ahead by some margin in the 1st half. It is going to be VERY hard for Arizona to make up lost ground. There will be 4-6 Zags scoring in the teens and some higher. My score prediction is Zags 85 - Zona 75 with a wider margin in there before the end. Yeah, talk is talk but .... these Zags are a TEAM and you can bet they'll be focused. But again - there's always the bounce of the ball. I'm hoping the Zags are where the ball is way more than Zona! Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
12-05-2014, 04:15 PM
If the refs call it as tight as tonight's Texas Kentucky game then the zags are in trouble

AnonAzZagTemp
12-05-2014, 05:19 PM
If the refs call it as tight as tonight's Texas Kentucky game then the zags are in trouble

^^^this^^^ but then so will the cats...refs are screwing the pooch this year, it is like watching a dumpster fire being lite in a monsoon...

Frankly this may be the toughest game we have until we play Utah, there's plenty of buzz about you guys on our forum, if you didnt matter we wouldn't talk...

End of the day, (as long as the zebras stay out of the food trough and keep their whistle in their ass where it belongs) it will be a good game for both of us...I am not 100% convinced we can win this one, the cats have a tendency to give the fans serious heart conditions....it will be interesting to see how our freshman play in a game this magnitude...so far thy have shown up above expectation...

If we beat Oregon in the Pac-12 championship tonite (a highly possible long shot) McKale will be a freaking Zoo...last week after a Brandon Ashley dunk no one could hear the refs whistle calling for time-out it was so loud...if we lose to Oregon, we will take it out on you.

zagzilla
12-05-2014, 05:54 PM
SportspressNW did a pregame story on the game.

http://sportspressnw.com/2194605/2014/big-college-hoops-clash-gonzaga-at-arizona

For those of you unfamiliar with www.sportspressnw.com it is run by Art Thiel former sportswriter for the Seattle PI. Lot's of good stories about Seattle area sports.

This is the first time I've seen them write about the Zags.


ZZ

bartruff1
12-05-2014, 07:28 PM
Vegas has Zona by 4...4 1/2

Reborn
12-05-2014, 07:31 PM
[QUOTE=AnonAzZagTemp;1056087I think the one disadvantage Pangos has is not having a direct replacement now, playing 36 minutes against us will be hard and if the game comes down to the last 5 minutes your rotation is gonna be a liability at Mckale...

I think having 2 seniors and juniors gives you something to take off the "away" edge but with refs giving home court advantage (yes I admit that) being away and depending on newbies on a hostile stage stacks the deck against you enough to eek out a victory for the cats...and yes you are right you probably won't move in polls unless you win...[/QUOTE]

I'm not worried about Pangos playing 35 minutes vs Arizona. He's had to go 40 before. But I also don't worry about Melson coming in for him, or Dranginis. Gary Bell can handle the point for five minutes. You had better watch out for Melson. He's ready to have an impact in the dessert, imo.

Go Zags!!!

Rangerzag
12-05-2014, 07:50 PM
SportspressNW did a pregame story on the game.

http://sportspressnw.com/2194605/2014/big-college-hoops-clash-gonzaga-at-arizona

For those of you unfamiliar with www.sportspressnw.com (http://www.sportspressnw.com) it is run by Art Thiel former sportswriter for the Seattle PI. Lot's of good stories about Seattle area sports.

This is the first time I've seen them write about the Zags.


ZZ

Page says Howie Stalwick wrote the piece.

DixieZag
12-05-2014, 08:23 PM
Vegas has Zona by 4...4 1/2

One reason I don't bet - if I bet on Arizona, to make it likely I'd be happy one way or another, Arizona would win by 3.

In terms of Zagger's pick of GU by 10? I've said this before, some on this board seem to have access to some kool-aid cooked up by a uniquely brilliant and diabolical pharmacist. I can maybe see us winning by 3 on some good shot in the last seconds, but that would require a whole lot of things coming together to make it happen and I genuinely worry that even if we're up by 10 with 5 to go, some demons will rise as we take the air out of ball trying to tip toe across the line. If we somehow had that situation arise, and I were few, I'd challenge them to win by 20. 'Course, I've won 600 or something fewer games than Few.

RenoZag
12-05-2014, 08:56 PM
Page says Howie Stalwick wrote the piece.

And Zagzilla's post only said Art Thiel runs the website, not that he had authored the article.

:cheers:

Zagger
12-06-2014, 04:55 AM
One reason I don't bet - if I bet on Arizona, to make it likely I'd be happy one way or another, Arizona would win by 3.

In terms of Zagger's pick of GU by 10? I've said this before, some on this board seem to have access to some kool-aid cooked up by a uniquely brilliant and diabolical pharmacist. I can maybe see us winning by 3 on some good shot in the last seconds, but that would require a whole lot of things coming together to make it happen and I genuinely worry that even if we're up by 10 with 5 to go, some demons will rise as we take the air out of ball trying to tip toe across the line. If we somehow had that situation arise, and I were few, I'd challenge them to win by 20. 'Course, I've won 600 or something fewer games than Few.
Sticking by my 10 up on Arizona. Depth, depth, depth, shooting at depth and determination. I have no Crystal Ball - just a hunch about this Zag bunch. Arizona is expecting a good Zag team - I just don't think they're expecting this good of a Zag team. I see Arizona getting out of their zone (sync) - getting rattled by Zag play and Zags they've not had the pleasure of playing against. I also think we'll see a darn good game by Mt.K. I feel the Zags are the better team - road game or no road game. I don't feel I'm over-estimating the Zags nor under-estimating Arizona. I also feel that Few knows this Zag bunch and how to get the best out of them against Arizona. Won't be long and we'll get to see whether I need to adjust my kool-aid ingredients :-) I hope the refs can keep up with the action and officiate a great game to watch. Go Zags! And Go Arizona too for that matter. Bottom line is that I want to see a really good college basketball game where both coaches are satisfied with how they teams played.

http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/ZagKoolaid.png

RenoZag
12-06-2014, 06:31 AM
Vegas has Zona by 4...4 1/2

Looks like the range has moved to 4.5 to 5

http://www.docsports.com/college-basketball-lines.html

Reborn
12-06-2014, 07:10 AM
Sticking by my 10 up on Arizona. Depth, depth, depth, shooting at depth and determination. I have no Crystal Ball - just a hunch about this Zag bunch. Arizona is expecting a good Zag team - I just don't think they're expecting this good of a Zag team. I see Arizona getting out of their zone (sync) - getting rattled by Zag play and Zags they've not had the pleasure of playing against. I also think we'll see a darn good game by Mt.K. I feel the Zags are the better team - road game or no road game. I don't feel I'm over-estimating the Zags nor under-estimating Arizona. I also feel that Few knows this Zag bunch and how to get the best out of them against Arizona. Won't be long and we'll get to see whether I need to adjust my kool-aid ingredients :-) I hope the refs can keep up with the action and officiate a great game to watch. Go Zags! And Go Arizona too for that matter. Bottom line is that I want to see a really good college basketball game where both coaches are satisfied with how they teams played.

http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/ZagKoolaid.png

Just waking up. Nice to wake up to a pitcher of Zag Kool-Aid. Wow!!! It's GAME DAY finally. The biggest game of the year. Should be a lot of fun. I really enjoyed watching Texas play Kentucky last night and they gave them one heck of a game. And they were @ Kentucky. I No Longer see Kentucky as invincible, and I believe many will see today that Arizona isn't invincible this year either. We also saw Duke beat Wisconsin @ Wisconsin earlier in the week. It's impossible for the Zags to win today. I guess that's why I'm smiling this morning. There is something special about this Zag team. I hope to see that today.

There has been some negative thinking about Wiltjer. As you probably know I am not one who feels that way about him or his talent and skills. This can be a game for him to really play great, and to show who he is. I'm really pulling for him today. His defensive skills are not as bad, imo as some of you think. And if you've been watching he's a great passer. Almost like a point four. And I think that what is most important about his game is that which ever BIG for Arizona is guarding him will have to guard him on the outside. Wiltjer is every bit as good as Brandon Ashley, and imo better.

I like being the underdog. The dogs are ready.

Go Zags!!!

Zagger
12-06-2014, 07:38 AM
....... earlier in the week. It's impossible for the Zags to win today. I guess that's why I'm ........
Ooops! Ya might want to edit part of this ...... Go Zags!

Arizona Zag
12-06-2014, 08:22 AM
I'm leaving for Tucson at 10AM. I will have my GU flags on my car for the drive to Tucson.. I hope the refs let them play.Go Zags!

DixieZag
12-06-2014, 09:04 AM
Just waking up. Nice to wake up to a pitcher of Zag Kool-Aid. Wow!!! It's GAME DAY finally. The biggest game of the year. Should be a lot of fun. I really enjoyed watching Texas play Kentucky last night and they gave them one heck of a game. And they were @ Kentucky. I No Longer see Kentucky as invincible, and I believe many will see today that Arizona isn't invincible this year either. We also saw Duke beat Wisconsin @ Wisconsin earlier in the week. It's impossible for the Zags to win today. I guess that's why I'm smiling this morning. There is something special about this Zag team. I hope to see that today.

There has been some negative thinking about Wiltjer. As you probably know I am not one who feels that way about him or his talent and skills. This can be a game for him to really play great, and to show who he is. I'm really pulling for him today. His defensive skills are not as bad, imo as some of you think. And if you've been watching he's a great passer. Almost like a point four. And I think that what is most important about his game is that which ever BIG for Arizona is guarding him will have to guard him on the outside. Wiltjer is every bit as good as Brandon Ashley, and imo better.

I like being the underdog. The dogs are ready.

Go Zags!!!

All good points, but I'll tell you, as far as KW is concerned? I'd be just fine if he reverted a little to "Classic K" and spent a little time out by the line and hit 4 or 5 threes.

seacatfan
12-06-2014, 12:11 PM
Ashley is perfectly comfortable guarding on the perimeter.