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View Full Version : A good lesson for this team tonight.



Marcus
11-26-2014, 10:14 PM
Well a ton went wrong tonight. The refs ruined all of the tempo and flow of the game. Fouls all over the place for everyone. A complete grinder of a game. The unbelievable foul on Perkins.

It's good to have a game like this and still come out on top, (minus the injury to Perkins). It was their first road game, and in a venue like MSG I think it got to some of the players.

Sabonis was playing in front of his Dad for the first time in his college career and you could tell how bad he wanted to play well. He probably won't have a worse game all year. I bet Friday he's a different player than tonight.

Wesley didn't have a great game on either side of the ball, with his track record at USC I'm positive he will come out with more fire and use this game as motivation for the next.

There were others too, that didn't bring the effort or energy.

Bottom line is they still won. I think it would've been a 20 pt win had even one other player play well offensively. I'm sure there will be a lot of material on the game film to learn from and for quite a few of them to use as motivation for the next one.

sittingon50
11-26-2014, 10:26 PM
:confused:

Marcus
11-26-2014, 10:28 PM
My point is that it is good for the team to know they can win games like this when everything seems to be going horribly wrong.

jim77
11-26-2014, 10:43 PM
More like a reality check.

The goods: Kyle Wiltjer is the scorer that we hoped for...playing against the most athletic guys in college BB(KY) does that. Kevin Pangos managed an ugly game well...the kid is solid. We we're deadly from the line. The team didn't panic when UGA kept making runs.

The Bad. We are still a finesse team against the athletic teams....we still have to have help from other players to get open shots. (KW is the exception) The UGA team could get to the rim at will...and there was nothing we could do about it. We were always a step behind...and worse committed dumb fouls when beaten. We need to go zone earlier when we face a quicker team....and stay there. Our foul selection was atrocious...particularly Sabonis...we have to keep Domantas on the floor. He needs to back off a bit and if he gets beaten...then LET IT GO. Same goes for PK. We play like this against AZ and its gonna be another beat down like last year. How many times does the driving UGA player have to dish to an open man before we catch on? TERRIBLE DEFENSE. I thought the refs favored UGA..then again at least the UGA defender was IN FRONT of his man...whereas we were usually trying to play defense from behind....which is gonna draw more fouls. Keep between you're man and the rim!

Marcus
11-26-2014, 10:47 PM
More like a reality check.

The goods: Kyle Wiltjer is the scorer that we hoped for...playing against the most athletic guys in college BB(KY) does that. Kevin Pangos managed an ugly game well...the kid is solid. We we're deadly from the line. The team didn't panic when UGA kept making runs.

The Bad. We are still a finesse team against the athletic teams....we still have to have help from other players to get open shots. (KW is the exception) The UGA team could get to the rim at will...and there was nothing we could do about it. We were always a step behind...and worse committed dumb fouls when beaten. We need to go zone earlier when we face a quicker team....and stay there. Our foul selection was atrocious...particularly Sabonis...we have to keep Domantas on the floor. He needs to back off a bit and if he gets beaten...then LET IT GO. Same goes for PK. We play like this against AZ and its gonna be another beat down like last year. How many times does the driving UGA player have to dish to an open man before we catch on? TERRIBLE DEFENSE. I thought the refs favored UGA..then again at least the UGA defender was IN FRONT of his man...whereas we were usually trying to play defense from behind....which is gonna draw more fouls. Keep between you're man and the rim!

I agree with you, lots to learn from and if they do, it's best to learn this lesson early in the year.

CDC84
11-26-2014, 10:48 PM
There is going to be a temptation for these guys to play matador defense due to how great their offense is.

At no point during that game did I feel Gonzaga was under any threat to lose to Georgia.

But that's because they're Georgia.

The Zags can't suck themselves into that way of thinking.

The bigs need to avoid picking up those cheap fouls. It hurts the defense and hurts Gonzaga's depth advantage.

jim77
11-26-2014, 10:53 PM
There is going to be a temptation for these guys to play matador defense due to how great their offense is.

At no point during that game did I feel Gonzaga was under any threat to lose to Georgia.

But that's because they're Georgia.

The Zags can't suck themselves into that way of thinking.

The bigs need to avoid picking up those cheap fouls. It hurts the defense and hurts Gonzaga's depth advantage.


Agree CDC....except we could have very easily lost that game except for DEAD eye FT shooting and a MORRISONish performance from KYLE W.

Marcus
11-26-2014, 10:58 PM
I guess that's both a blessing and a curse of this team. They have the ability and the players to have nights where a Wltjer can go off and save a team that is struggling. It could also lull them into thinking their O will bail them out of bad games.

jim77
11-26-2014, 10:58 PM
I also think Bobby K is right in that teams are gonna come after our bigs...to try and foul them out....UGA easily fouled out our 2 best tonight. I think the coach needs to remedy that quick cause that was some serious undisciplined defense. We can't afford to lose either....glad we got Nunez. St John's will test that discipline Friday...AZ too.

jim77
11-26-2014, 11:00 PM
I guess that's both a blessing and a curse of this team. They have the ability and the players to have nights where a Wltjer can go off and save a team that is struggling. It could also lull them into thinking their O will bail them out of bad games.

You may get away with that against UGA....in March you go home early.

hooter73
11-26-2014, 11:17 PM
Even before the fouls took over, we werent pushing the ball and running it like we have been so far this year. There is a lesson in there somewhere and I think it comes from Wiltjer and Pangos; its still the same game, play the way they know they can and should.

zagzilla
11-27-2014, 12:14 AM
PK and Sabonis called for 10 fouls in just 30total minutes of PT. Need more discipline there.

Official attendance was just over 5,000. At MSG. No wonder this NIT preseason thing feels like it's circling the drain.

ZZ

jazzdelmar
11-27-2014, 05:35 AM
The first ten mins were celestial for the whole team...then all but KP and KW disappeared, and in the 2d half KP backed off too...why does that happen? I did think Wesley came on nice in 4th Q hitting 10-12 FTs and grabbing 7 bds. Not an A game but at least he kept plugging....

Zagger
11-27-2014, 06:17 AM
I thought KW's time was up to come alive on scoring - great game for that to happen. FT shooting was superb! Good to make a team like Georgia suffer for fouls. This bunch of Zags is going to take this game and Josh's treatment/injury as a rallying call. I believe St. John's is going to get to play a VERY spirited opponent on Friday.
KICK ASS ZAGS!

RenoZag
11-27-2014, 06:22 AM
The first ten mins were celestial for the whole team...then all but KP and KW disappeared, and in the 2d half KP backed off too...why does that happen? I did think Wesley came on nice in 4th Q hitting 10-12 FTs and grabbing 7 bds. Not an A game but at least he kept plugging....

Wesley strikes me as the kind of player who never gives up. In the post-game radio show, he said he "couldn't make a bucket to save his life" yet he did all of the things you mentioned, jazz, to ensure the Zags secured the win.

basketballzag
11-27-2014, 07:25 AM
I actually was very impressed with the Zags performance last night. They over came massive adversity in the second half with the ticky tack foul calling, on the road game, at MSG, and won the game despite Shem & Sabonis sitting in the bench most of the game. In other words they effectively neutralized our bigs due to foul trouble (Nunez, Shem, Sabonis).

The officiating made this a much closer contest than it should have been but it tested our team too. We needed this test badly because we haven't been challenged by anyone else this year including the scrimmage against Texas.

How react to playing St Johns on Friday without Perkins will be our second test but I suspect we will bring an A game on Friday. Great win by the Zags even though it wasn't a 50 point blowout.

bigblahla
11-27-2014, 07:31 AM
I actually was very impressed with the Zags performance last night. They over came massive adversity in the second half with the ticky tack foul calling, on the road game, at MSG, and won the game despite Shem & Sabonis sitting in the bench most of the game. In other words they effectively neutralized our bigs due to foul trouble (Nunez, Shem, Sabonis).

The officiating made this a much closer contest than it should have been but it tested our team too. We needed this test badly because we haven't been challenged by anyone else this year including the scrimmage against Texas.

How react to playing St Johns on Friday without Perkins will be our second test but I suspect we will bring an A game on Friday. Great win by the Zags even though it wasn't a 50 point blowout.

I was also impressed with the win.....ugly as it was.......This was a game other Gonzaga teams may not have won. The only way for an inferior offensive team to stay with the Zags is to muck up the game and make it ugly......I expect the same from St.Johns.....

Go!! Zags!!!

basketballzag
11-27-2014, 07:40 AM
I was also impressed with the win.....ugly as it was.......This was a game other Gonzaga teams may not have won. The only way for an inferior offensive teams to stay with the Zags is to muck up the game and make it ugly......I expect the same from St.Johns.....

Go!! Zags!!!

People may not realize this but we won the game with Bell, Shem, & Sabonis fouling out and we lost Perkins. So 2 of the starting five and our top 2 players on the second team didn't play at the end of the game. UGA only lost Gaines who quite honestly was awful for UGA. This is where our depth really came through and like Bigblahla said its a game in past years we might have lost.

HenneZag
11-27-2014, 07:59 AM
Georgia is a physical/athletic team that bullied us in the 2nd half. We struggled to rebound, get to loose balls and just got out hustled. If we had our avg. night from the FT line we would've been on the verge of losing. I loved that we hit the FT's when it counted. We haven't played a physical team like Georgia yet this season, this a a good thing to go through adversity and see how we respond. The boys know what they struggled with, now we just have to correct it and move on to the Jonnies.

Karnowski to me still lacks confidence, you can see it on his face, im hoping that he can fight through that. I felt bad for Sabonis, you can tell how frustrated he was during the game, you know he just wanted to make his dad proud.

Im hoping to see some more fluidity in tomorrow nights game.

LongIslandZagFan
11-27-2014, 08:46 AM
Reality check... they DID almost put up 90 points last night. It isn't as if they sucked. Better, more even reffing, GU puts up 100+.

billyberu
11-27-2014, 08:58 AM
Karnowski and Sabonis were both on the bench for extended periods during the 1st half due to foul troubles. This fact alone dictated Gonzaga's strategy going forward and they had to be less aggressive. We managed and survived. Other than the MMA kick to the face of Perkins, this game will quickly be forgotten.

Zagceo
11-27-2014, 08:59 AM
PK and Sabonis called for 10 fouls in just 30total minutes of PT. Need more discipline there.

Official attendance was just over 5,000. At MSG. No wonder this NIT preseason thing feels like it's circling the drain.

ZZ

Maui Invitational gym seats 2400. Its about the TV money. The fact is the NIT should give away tickets to fill the gym. The atmosphere from TV is they're playing in an empty hanger! Not exactly the kennel. The team hung in there and faced adversity. Lets take it out on St Johns. Take care of business.

HenneZag
11-27-2014, 09:03 AM
Reality check... they DID almost put up 90 points last night. It isn't as if they sucked. Better, more even reffing, GU puts up 100+.

Good point. We nailed our FT's was a big reason for that. Nearly 30 points or so from FT alone if I remember right, and alot of clock stoppage. But nonetheless we put up points against an athletic/physical team. Georgia may surprise some teams this year as they have some nice pieces.

DixieZag
11-27-2014, 09:17 AM
There is going to be a temptation for these guys to play matador defense due to how great their offense is.

At no point during that game did I feel Gonzaga was under any threat to lose to Georgia.

But that's because they're Georgia.

The Zags can't suck themselves into that way of thinking.

The bigs need to avoid picking up those cheap fouls. It hurts the defense and hurts Gonzaga's depth advantage.

Great post.

I do think it was important that they learned that if they keep their heads and don't panic, they can find ways to get it done. But that is outweighed by what you note.

In terms of finesse and matador defense, "some" of that was due to ticky tack fouls called early, especially against Sabonis.

zagzilla
11-27-2014, 09:35 AM
It was nice to see Arvydas Sabonis in the house. Too bad he didn't see much of his son on the floor.

The first foul called on Domas was awful-even Knight said he got stiff armed . Another was iffy but three were just dumb - over he back type stuff Domas should know better than. Maybe he was amped up playing in front of his dad for the first time in the USA.

Hope he can harness that energy and focus more tomorrow

ZZ

ZagLawGrad
11-27-2014, 09:58 AM
Good performance. But always good early to see where improvement is needed.

CdAZagFan
11-27-2014, 09:59 AM
It was a good win - similar to what they will face late in the season in the NCAA tournament. I think instead of Melson pulling his redshirt, Edwards should pull his. It would be nice to have that bulk when the games get ugly - and have Sabonis and Wiltjer play the four spot.

jazzdelmar
11-27-2014, 10:01 AM
It was a good win - similar to what they will face late in the season in the NCAA tournament. I think instead of Melson pulling his redshirt, Edwards should pull his. It would be nice to have that bulk when the games get ugly - and have Sabonis and Wiltjer play the four spot.

i am coming around to that point of v.....with mac we have good depth in the backcourt but with karno & AN playing so inconsistently and sabonis still not 100% adjusted we cd use a big body w skills. esp late in the game w his FT shooting.

maynard g krebs
11-27-2014, 07:23 PM
Reality check... they DID almost put up 90 points last night. It isn't as if they sucked. Better, more even reffing, GU puts up 100+.

+1, and I believe the alleged matador defense was a necessary adjustment to the ridiculous fouls being called on the Zags. You could see them becoming afraid of being called fouling even if they hadn't, and backing off.

DixieZag
11-27-2014, 08:14 PM
+1, and I believe the alleged matador defense was a necessary adjustment to the ridiculous fouls being called on the Zags. You could see them becoming afraid of being called fouling even if they hadn't, and backing off.

Both of you make critical points.

We can lose perspective sometimes. We must expect nights like last night, when things don't run on all cylinders. To win by 12 when playing on a neutral floor and not playing their best, with big foul trouble, is highly encouraging. Amazing really. Might tell us more about this team's ability than pounding St. Joes all the way back onto the plane.

Zagcity
11-27-2014, 08:29 PM
+1, and I believe the alleged matador defense was a necessary adjustment to the ridiculous fouls being called on the Zags. You could see them becoming afraid of being called fouling even if they hadn't, and backing off.

My thoughts exactly :)