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View Full Version : Good Gonzaga Article From G. Parrish



bigblahla
11-25-2014, 12:38 PM
I think it's a good read...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24839994/talk-centered-on-gonzagas-lack-of-final-fours-misses-larger-point

Go!! Zags

gu03alum
11-25-2014, 12:46 PM
I think it's a good read...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24839994/talk-centered-on-gonzagas-lack-of-final-fours-misses-larger-point

Go!! Zags

Very good, thanks for sharing!

I totally agree with the point of the article.

SWZag
11-25-2014, 12:47 PM
I think it's a good read...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24839994/talk-centered-on-gonzagas-lack-of-final-fours-misses-larger-point

Go!! Zags

Great find. Thanks for sharing. My thoughts exactly.

jagwalkley
11-25-2014, 12:50 PM
The best I have read for a long time.You (we) are already winners in my book,every year.Learn to look at the BIG PICTURE.Go Zags.

TheZagPhish
11-25-2014, 12:53 PM
Nice one.


"We have so much experience, and then some newcomers who are playing like veterans," said Pangos who has recorded 23 assists and zero turnovers this season, heading into Wednesday's game with Georgia. "We have so much depth, and everybody is pretty well-rounded. We're not just shooters. We're not just drivers. Everybody can do lots of things, and we can all pass. So that makes us tough to prepare for, because we can just swing the ball and know that anybody can shoot it at any time, which makes it kinda cool."

And kinda dangerous.

gonzagafan62
11-25-2014, 12:54 PM
Thanks for the share and good read. This article shows another huge reason why I love Few as our head coach. Its not that he doesn't try to win in the tournament. He really does, but look at what Parrish said. People dog on Few for not making the final four. People were knocking Calipari, and Roy Williams for not winning titles, LeBron not winning a title, and Bo Ryan not making a Final Four.

It will happen at the right time. This could be it. But you have to look at the bigger picture too. We are a small school from Spokane. I bet anyone would take our success if you never made the tournament from the start of your existence to 1995.

Go!! Zags!!!

sittingon50
11-25-2014, 01:11 PM
Thanks blah. Nice article.

The comments aren't very predictable, are they?

WBM
11-25-2014, 01:19 PM
But, like Few, I also believe judging programs based on how those programs perform during a three-week, single-elimination tournament, as opposed to how they perform over, say, the span of a four-month season, is among the silliest things people do in sports, if only because the three-week, single-elimination tournament is just so random.

The best team doesn't always win the title.

And the best four teams almost never make the Final Four.

I agree with the message of this article, and I am enjoying every minute of this season -- I refuse to count down to the tournament as the end-all be-all. But there is something in the back of my mind that disagrees with the notion that the tournament is such a total crapshoot. The best four teams don't always make it to the final four, true, but the overwhelming majority of national champions are one of the best teams.

Part of me questions if Mark Few wants it badly enough to actually win it -- It's clear it isn't the only measure of success in his mind (rightly so). If he tells himself that the tournament is a crapshoot, that it's so random, could he just not have enough fire for the tournament to push through the tough games, to will a win in a nasty trap game? How does Few's point of view regarding the tournament reconcile with history showing that some coaches/teams find a way to win? If he did want it more, would GU have already seen a final four berth?

DixieZag
11-25-2014, 01:23 PM
I agree with the message of this article, and I am enjoying every minute of this season -- I refuse to count down to the tournament as the end-all be-all. But there is something in the back of my mind that disagrees with the notion that the tournament is such a total crapshoot. The best four teams don't always make it to the final four, true, but the overwhelming majority of national champions are one of the best teams.

Part of me questions if Mark Few wants it badly enough to actually win it -- It's clear it isn't the only measure of success in his mind (rightly so). If he tells himself that the tournament is a crapshoot, that it's so random, could he just not have enough fire for the tournament to push through the tough games, to will a win in a nasty trap game? How does Few's point of view regarding the tournament reconcile with history showing that some coaches/teams find a way to win? If he did want it more, would GU have already seen a final four berth?

I think he wants to win it as bad as anyone out there. I think the stuff we see here is just the words of an adult, secure enough in himself and his program that he can put it all in perspective. But, I'll bet he wants to win it as much as Izzo or K or certainly as much as Cal.

If anything, I think he wants to win so bad that he tightens up a bit in the tourney. But, I just appreciate how he can put all things in their place in the world.

WBM
11-25-2014, 01:29 PM
I think he wants to win it as bad as anyone out there. I think the stuff we see here is just the words of an adult, secure enough in himself and his program that he can put it all in perspective. But, I'll bet he wants to win it as much as Izzo or K or certainly as much as Cal.

If anything, I think he wants to win so bad that he tightens up a bit in the tourney. But, I just appreciate how he can put all things in their place in the world.

Well, one of his former players -- it may have been Dan Dickau on his show -- commented that Few wants it bad, but I never see it. I don't need to see it, but I wonder if the team gets to see that desire. It doesn't help the team at all if Few takes one step toward the Calipari "40-0" hubris publicly, but I do hope he's more fired up about it in the locker room than he is in front of the media/fans.

To be clear, I enjoy GU basketball not just because they are successful as a team, but also because I feel good about supporting the people who make up the program; I don't feel like anyone on the team or on the staff is someone I wouldn't be proud to associate with. I can't say the same about every other team out there. So if GU never makes a final four, I will still be a proud supporter and fan. You better believe though, I would LOVE to see them "break through".

Zag79
11-25-2014, 01:42 PM
Nail meet head... That being said, of course we want a Final Four including Few himself. Great read!

gonzagafan62
11-25-2014, 01:46 PM
Well, one of his former players -- it may have been Dan Dickau on his show -- commented that Few wants it bad, but I never see it. I don't need to see it, but I wonder if the team gets to see that desire. It doesn't help the team at all if Few takes one step toward the Calipari "40-0" hubris publicly, but I do hope he's more fired up about it in the locker room than he is in front of the media/fans.

To be clear, I enjoy GU basketball not just because they are successful as a team, but also because I feel good about supporting the people who make up the program; I don't feel like anyone on the team or on the staff is someone I wouldn't be proud to associate with. I can't say the same about every other team out there. So if GU never makes a final four, I will still be a proud supporter and fan. You better believe though, I would LOVE to see them "break through".

I worried about the same desire WBM, but it long went behind me after they started working their arse of in the international front of things. If they didn't have that desire you wouldn't be seeing him very frustrated on the sidelines and coaching his players during the tournament. You could also see the reaction in his face of defeat after the Wichita State game. It looked like the same Few, but if you looked at his eyes, you could tell heartbreak. Its not the end all be all by any stretch, but I do feel that in some capacity, Few says that to sleep better at night and keep his balance between fishing and kids, and work. Nobody works harder at building a program than Few. The other guys that may work harder, are just sustaining their program.

Few knows the ceiling of this program has not been met. I honestly think that's why he is sticking around here. The Little engine that could is soooo close to writing the end of a fairy tale novel. It really does remind me of the stories that start with immediate success, then have disappointment time after time after time, and then at the very end, they finish the book with a spectacular and beautiful ending. That's how I see Gonzaga. I see a great ending coming.

And I bet Few does too.

Go Zags!

WBM
11-25-2014, 01:50 PM
This forum doesn't have a "Like" or "Thank" feature, but I like that post, gonzagafan62.

RenoZag
11-25-2014, 02:09 PM
Part of me questions if Mark Few wants it badly enough to actually win it -- It's clear it isn't the only measure of success in his mind (rightly so). If he tells himself that the tournament is a crapshoot, that it's so random, could he just not have enough fire for the tournament to push through the tough games, to will a win in a nasty trap game? How does Few's point of view regarding the tournament reconcile with history showing that some coaches/teams find a way to win? If he did want it more, would GU have already seen a final four berth?




To be clear, I enjoy GU basketball not just because they are successful as a team, but also because I feel good about supporting the people who make up the program. . .

So on the one hand you wonder if the head coach 'wants it' bad enough and on the other hand, you're proud of the support you provide the program ?

I suspect many have had the same mixed feelings, WBM. I know I have. Thanks for putting your thoughts out there and adding to the discussion.

zagamatic
11-25-2014, 02:42 PM
This article makes me think of a great question. If it ends up as Kentucky and the Zags in the championship game and Gonzaga wins, what do you think will be the knee jerk reaction of the media? I'd lay odds of 70% in favor of the Zags got lucky. Or that they blame it on the officiating somehow handcuffing Kentucky's obviously superior talent. And if they do give the Zags credit, it'd be a backhanded compliment. Unless, of course, the Zags take Kentucky to the woodshed and leave no doubt or room for speculation. I know. I know. It's all speculation. And it's rather unlikely that out of 300+ teams vying for the title that these two teams will meet. BUT! I WANT to play Kentucky in the title game so that if we are lucky enough to win it all that nobody can say that "they wouldn't have beat Kentucky".

sonuvazag
11-25-2014, 03:30 PM
He wouldn't have put so much effort into recruiting over the past five years if he didn't want it bad enough. According to reputable posters, Few delegated the recruiting for a few years and came back around the time we landed Pangos and Bell.

I believe Dixie nailed it. The tournament expectations have become an albatross around his neck and downplaying their importance is probably just hoping to breathe when he gets to crunch time again.

After all, the ones who do the best in the tournament don't have the mindset of it being the be-all-end-all. They're intensely focused but in a relaxed way.

Ever hear of taking it one game at a time... that cliche didn't arise out of stardust.

This team is legit. Everyone knows it. The pressure is on. Zag fans just need to hope Few really believes all his zen-like quotes.

CDC84
11-25-2014, 03:34 PM
Of course there are already some real idiotic comments in the comments section below the article.........

229SintoZag
11-25-2014, 03:41 PM
For now, since we have never been to a Final Four, I agree with the sentiment that you cannot measure a program with that yardstick.

Once we make a Final Four, or two, or more, I think I am going to change my mind, and I am pretty sure that then, I will not consider any program to really have "arrived" until they break through that barrier.

So my take on this is situational. My guess is that Few's take may be the same once he makes it to the Final Four a time or two.

CDC84
11-25-2014, 04:44 PM
One comment below the article that I'd like to address:


This is not a knock of few or the Zags but they are 24-46 against top 25 teams under few...Thats not exactly good

1) I'd like to know if this guy really researched this or not, and if it is accurate

2) I suppose he means teams ranked in the AP top 25. As we all know, just because a team is ranked in the top 25 on November 22, it doesn't mean they'll be ranked in the top 25 on March 3. Just because a team is unranked on November 22, it doesn't mean they won't be in the top 5 on March 3.

3) I would be willing to wager that even if the 24-46 figure is accurate, that record is still better than the majority of BCS teams.

4) Until recent years, most of those top 25 opponents have been played on road or neutral floors (and most of those neutral floors haven't been Zag friendly). A good BCS team might get 50% or more of their top 25 opponents at home.

Reborn
11-25-2014, 04:52 PM
Honestly, I saw nothing new in the article. Few has been this way for ever, and says the same things every year. And I have never quite understood why he seems to not understand the importance of making it to a Final 4 and also the importance of winning a national championship. I also feel that if it's not important to him why should he ever make it there. If it's not a goal why should the team ever attain the top position in the land. I also believe that for kids it's always been important to win championships and trophies. For any kind of a tournament. Why would one settle for less? If he thinks winning the WCC every year is a lofty enough goal for himself, or winning the WCC tournament is good enough. Can't he understand that the WCC is not even an elite conference. HOw many teams out there in the basketball world could win the WCC so many years. I would bet there are at least ten, maybe more. And how many teams and coaches could make 17 straight trips to the NCAA tournament if they were in the WCC?

I wish for once that Few could find the humility to be like other coaches, other great coaches who I know DO Want to win a national championships. And they ARE the ones who are winning them. Maybe our recruiting would pick up if the Zags actually DO make it to the final 4 and or win a national championship. Honestly, I'm not sure if I was a GREAT basketball player that I'd want to play for a coach that didn't care about winning a national championships. I have often wanted to say this, and I finally have. So there..........have at it.

DixieZag
11-25-2014, 04:58 PM
Well, one of his former players -- it may have been Dan Dickau on his show -- commented that Few wants it bad, but I never see it. I don't need to see it, but I wonder if the team gets to see that desire. It doesn't help the team at all if Few takes one step toward the Calipari "40-0" hubris publicly, but I do hope he's more fired up about it in the locker room than he is in front of the media/fans.

To be clear, I enjoy GU basketball not just because they are successful as a team, but also because I feel good about supporting the people who make up the program; I don't feel like anyone on the team or on the staff is someone I wouldn't be proud to associate with. I can't say the same about every other team out there. So if GU never makes a final four, I will still be a proud supporter and fan. You better believe though, I would LOVE to see them "break through".

Oh, I don't question your love of GU or Few. It's all opinion and you may be right. I'm just going on my gut. You may be right. If you look at how hard he goes at the WCC conference standings and WCC tourney, I get the sense he wants the NCAA tournament just as bad but b/c they haven't gotten there yet, he's not letting that define him.

And I'm not doubting him or slamming him when I say he might get tight in the tourney. And I might be leaning too heavily upon when they near lost to the 16 and then got beat by Wichita, b/c there were a lot of years where they played real well and then just got throttled by a great team that no one would beat that day, BYU (very few would beat them that day) AZ, UNC, etc, so I'm not even sure of my hypothesis.

It just "seems" like there've been times in the tourney (and say Memphis) when he was real tight and might have been better to just tell the guys at the 12:00 minute mark, "Just go out and beat them by 20 however you think it best."

And, caveat to all this; I don't know what I'm talking about. So, there's that.

RenoZag
11-25-2014, 05:01 PM
One comment below the article that I'd like to address:



1) I'd like to know if this guy really researched this or not, and if it is accurate

2) I suppose he means teams ranked in the AP top 25. As we all know, just because a team is ranked in the top 25 on November 22, it doesn't mean they'll be ranked in the top 25 on March 3. Just because a team is unranked on November 22, it doesn't mean they won't be in the top 5 on March 3.

3) I would be willing to wager that even if the 24-46 figure is accurate, that record is still better than the majority of BCS teams.

4) Until recent years, most of those top 25 opponents have been played on road or neutral floors (and most of those neutral floors haven't been Zag friendly). A good BCS team might get 50% or more of their top 25 opponents at home.

Page 75 of the 2013-14 MBB Media Guide has the W-L record versus ranked teams through the 2012-2013 season. . .in one stretch from 2/7/2009 to 12/11/2010, the Zags lost 9 straight games versus ranked teams. . .the number[in the comment section] might be accurate.

GU's overall record vs. ranked teams (according to the 13-14 media guide) was 29 - 63, but those totals include the pre-Few era, CDC.

Birddog
11-25-2014, 05:10 PM
The record against ranked teams is meaningful, but it would be a lot more meaningful if it showed how many times GU was the higher (or lower) ranked team. In how many of those losses was GU either not ranked or ranked lower? Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

DixieZag
11-25-2014, 05:13 PM
One comment below the article that I'd like to address:



1) I'd like to know if this guy really researched this or not, and if it is accurate

2) I suppose he means teams ranked in the AP top 25. As we all know, just because a team is ranked in the top 25 on November 22, it doesn't mean they'll be ranked in the top 25 on March 3. Just because a team is unranked on November 22, it doesn't mean they won't be in the top 5 on March 3.

3) I would be willing to wager that even if the 24-46 figure is accurate, that record is still better than the majority of BCS teams.

4) Until recent years, most of those top 25 opponents have been played on road or neutral floors (and most of those neutral floors haven't been Zag friendly). A good BCS team might get 50% or more of their top 25 opponents at home.

You hit it just right; I'm not sure that's bad. It's not like we've had a top 5 team throughout. If you look at other "very good" teams but maybe not absolute power teams, like say, Villanova - are they better than winning wining one third of their games against elite competition? Not sure. And, lets keep in mind, for many many a year we were playing most of those games either on the road or at neutral courts.

Birddog
11-25-2014, 05:17 PM
Here it is on Wiki; scroll down a ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzaga_Bulldogs_men%27s_basketball

CDC84
11-25-2014, 05:27 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

gonzagafan62
11-25-2014, 05:37 PM
Here it is on Wiki; scroll down a ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzaga_Bulldogs_men%27s_basketball

Yeah and I can already tell you that we beat Kansas state ... Which turned out to be a 4 seed. That's 13-16 in the nation

vandalzag
11-25-2014, 06:41 PM
Honestly, I saw nothing new in the article. Few has been this way for ever, and says the same things every year. And I have never quite understood why he seems to not understand the importance of making it to a Final 4 and also the importance of winning a national championship. I also feel that if it's not important to him why should he ever make it there. If it's not a goal why should the team ever attain the top position in the land. I also believe that for kids it's always been important to win championships and trophies. For any kind of a tournament. Why would one settle for less? If he thinks winning the WCC every year is a lofty enough goal for himself, or winning the WCC tournament is good enough. Can't he understand that the WCC is not even an elite conference. HOw many teams out there in the basketball world could win the WCC so many years. I would bet there are at least ten, maybe more. And how many teams and coaches could make 17 straight trips to the NCAA tournament if they were in the WCC?

I wish for once that Few could find the humility to be like other coaches, other great coaches who I know DO Want to win a national championships. And they ARE the ones who are winning them. Maybe our recruiting would pick up if the Zags actually DO make it to the final 4 and or win a national championship. Honestly, I'm not sure if I was a GREAT basketball player that I'd want to play for a coach that didn't care about winning a national championships. I have often wanted to say this, and I finally have. So there..........have at it.

You really have issues with reading comprehension. Nowhere in this article does it quote Few as saying he does not want to win a national championship. Nor has he ever said in any other past interview or publication that he does not want to win a national championship (or trophies, rings, ribbons, hats, crowns, etc...). Finally he never said winning lacked importance. So I find it somewhat alarming that you have had such a an adverse reaction to what amounts so something that you have made up in your own mind. I think in the future you should clarify your statements so we can tell if they are in reaction to the real coach Few acutally said or something you think the pretend coach Few is saying. Right now it is difficult to comprehend you version opposed to what all other people read and hear.

As far as his record and the consecutive trips to the dance question you pose I would say not many. There are weaker conferences than the WCC, yet nobody comes close to his record. The better question would be how many schools would have kept that record intact when the only way to qualify was the by winning the conference tourney, since the WCC was for the longest time a single bid league. Maybe the streak looks easy because the work of Few and his staff has put them so far above the WCC as opposed to the WCC being such and easy conference. Just how well has Geroge Mason and Davidson performed since their final 4 run? Both come from conferences weaker than the WCC and yet there is no sustained level of performance.
Just a follow up on your final four thought, if they did make the final 4 and or win a national championship, would that not be a sign that the recruiting had already picked up?

The irony of this is that you speak as though you have had a conversation(real not imagined) with Few and he has told you these things. When in real life if you have ever talked to him you would know what kind of importance he puts on winning and how much he values a championship. Is he perfect, no. Would he sell his soul to win a championship, no. All he said was you should value the entirety of a season. But no in your mind he needs to have the "humility" of coaches like Calipari, Pittino, etc.. who have said they want to win a championship. Because wanting to win is the ultimate sign of a coach being humble.

Zagdawg
11-25-2014, 06:58 PM
Gotta agree---Few wants a national championship--- but he also wants to honor the players that have contributed to build the program into what it is today --he doesn't want to discount what they have achieved along the way...and I can respect that.

We are on the journey --there are some milestones along the way--- keeping my fingers crossed that at some point in my lifetime we see a final 4 and a national championship would be even more icing on the cake.

Few continues to build the team and take the Zags down the right path---nothing wrong with that philosophy.

Go Zags!

DixieZag
11-25-2014, 07:51 PM
You really have issues with reading comprehension. Nowhere in this article does it quote Few as saying he does not want to win a national championship. Nor has he ever said in any other past interview or publication that he does not want to win a national championship (or trophies, rings, ribbons, hats, crowns, etc...). Finally he never said winning lacked importance. So I find it somewhat alarming that you have had such a an adverse reaction to what amounts so something that you have made up in your own mind. I think in the future you should clarify your statements so we can tell if they are in reaction to the real coach Few acutally said or something you think the pretend coach Few is saying. Right now it is difficult to comprehend you version opposed to what all other people read and hear.

As far as his record and the consecutive trips to the dance question you pose I would say not many. There are weaker conferences than the WCC, yet nobody comes close to his record. The better question would be how many schools would have kept that record intact when the only way to qualify was the by winning the conference tourney, since the WCC was for the longest time a single bid league. Maybe the streak looks easy because the work of Few and his staff has put them so far above the WCC as opposed to the WCC being such and easy conference. Just how well has Geroge Mason and Davidson performed since their final 4 run? Both come from conferences weaker than the WCC and yet there is no sustained level of performance.
Just a follow up on your final four thought, if they did make the final 4 and or win a national championship, would that not be a sign that the recruiting had already picked up?

The irony of this is that you speak as though you have had a conversation(real not imagined) with Few and he has told you these things. When in real life if you have ever talked to him you would know what kind of importance he puts on winning and how much he values a championship. Is he perfect, no. Would he sell his soul to win a championship, no. All he said was you should value the entirety of a season. But no in your mind he needs to have the "humility" of coaches like Calipari, Pittino, etc.. who have said they want to win a championship. Because wanting to win is the ultimate sign of a coach being humble.

THAT is a great comment. Big difference between saying it is not "everything" and saying it isn't "anything."

mgadfly
11-25-2014, 07:57 PM
Here it is on Wiki; scroll down a ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzaga_Bulldogs_men%27s_basketball

How does GU's road/neutral/home records against top 25 teams stack up under Few?

I'm sure there are a lot of teams with better records against top 25 competition, but how often do we get T25 teams coming into the Kennel? Most of the top tier teams have conference opponents who are T25 squads that come to their place to play games while GU has had to search out games and that usually means traveling to their court or a neutral court.

dan71w
11-25-2014, 08:00 PM
The success our program has had over the years is actually far more miraculous than the media is willing to talk about. lets put this into perspective; first Spokane a little dot on a huge map in which 80% of the country can't even pronounce. A very small private school competing with the big boys of the nation (year after year) Out of more than 300 schools nation wide the Zags continue to make the dance in which only 64 are chosen.
how often do we get those TOP talent kids? the one and dones? when was the last time we ever had a #1 ranked recruiting class? or #2, or #3, or even #4? we continually have less "talented recruits", yet still compete with those power horders in college basketball.

Gonzaga has defied the laws of selection, and continually over achieves compared to the likes of Duke, Kansas and AZ. yet we somehow are in the conversation almost every year.
If we never make a final 4, I am fine with that, heck if we do not even get another sweet 16 I will still be proud of our school, the kids playing, and the staff for all they have done for our communities, and for all the joy they bring to our hearts, they all deserve the utmost respect and I honor them for that alone.

Just the idea of us getting into the tournament year after year with such consistency is beyond any other school in the nation can claim given our location, our size, and yes even our conference. I find it silly that so many put such stock into a tournament that's designed from the ground up to favor the big powerful schools. I agree with Few, the tournament is a crap shoot, the success of each team, and the program should not be measured by the ending dance, it should be measured by the journey.
Gonzaga the little school that has a big heart.

zagamatic
11-25-2014, 08:34 PM
As with any faithful fan, I'm a bit greedy because I would really love to have a final 4 and/or national championship. However, given the choice between being a flash in the pan and being a perennial power who gets a ton of nationally televised games who's always dancing in March, I'd take the long term and so would most coaches. For that matter, a lot of players would rather go to the dance 4 years in a row compared to packing it away after conference tournament's. Obvious exceptions are the one and done players. Way too much emphasis is put on who gets hot for a stretch of games at the end of the year. I mean, if you look at the way things stood at the end of the regular season last year, neither Kentucky or Uconn would have been considered one of the top ten teams in the country and their seeds reflected that as 8 & 7 respectively as I recall.
To further illustrate my point, I can remember that Butler made a big splash two years in a row, but I honestly can't remember 3 players names from Butler. How many fans nationwide do you think could name at least 5 Zags past or present?

gonzagafan62
11-25-2014, 08:39 PM
The success our program has had over the years is actually far more miraculous than the media is willing to talk about. lets put this into perspective; first Spokane a little dot on a huge map in which 80% of the country can't even pronounce. A very small private school competing with the big boys of the nation (year after year) Out of more than 300 schools nation wide the Zags continue to make the dance in which only 64 are chosen.
how often do we get those TOP talent kids? the one and dones? when was the last time we ever had a #1 ranked recruiting class? or #2, or #3, or even #4? we continually have less "talented recruits", yet still compete with those power horders in college basketball.

Gonzaga has defied the laws of selection, and continually over achieves compared to the likes of Duke, Kansas and AZ. yet we somehow are in the conversation almost every year.
If we never make a final 4, I am fine with that, heck if we do not even get another sweet 16 I will still be proud of our school, the kids playing, and the staff for all they have done for our communities, and for all the joy they bring to our hearts, they all deserve the utmost respect and I honor them for that alone.

Just the idea of us getting into the tournament year after year with such consistency is beyond any other school in the nation can claim given our location, our size, and yes even our conference. I find it silly that so many put such stock into a tournament that's designed from the ground up to favor the big powerful schools. I agree with Few, the tournament is a crap shoot, the success of each team, and the program should not be measured by the ending dance, it should be measured by the journey.
Gonzaga the little school that has a big heart.

Bingo. It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog. Proud to be a bulldog. Go zags!!!

CarolinaZagFan
11-25-2014, 08:42 PM
A 23:0 Assist to turnover ratio is pretty good right? :clap:

RenoZag
11-25-2014, 08:44 PM
How does GU's road/neutral/home records against top 25 teams stack up under Few?

Prior to the 2013-14 season, GU's all time record vs. Top 25 teams (from the MBB Media Guide published in Nov 2013) was:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x375/RenoZag/GUvsTop25_zps4173ba3c.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/RenoZag/media/GUvsTop25_zps4173ba3c.jpg.html)

Somone can take the media guide page ( See Post #22 above) + last year's results ( available HERE (http://www.gozags.com/fls/26400//MEN'S%20BASKETBALL/2014-15_Gonzaga_MBB_Quick_Facts.pdf) ) and come up with an answer. . .

FuManShoes
11-25-2014, 08:53 PM
Can't he understand that the WCC is not even an elite conference. HOw many teams out there in the basketball world could win the WCC so many years. I would bet there are at least ten, maybe more. And how many teams and coaches could make 17 straight trips to the NCAA tournament if they were in the WCC?

If it were that easy to win even a lesser conference year in and year out then more coaches would be doing it.

Robzagnut
11-25-2014, 09:19 PM
I'm happy. At least GU is in the conversation. Better to have a chance at a Sweet 16 every year than be a San Fran, Pepperdine or a Portland where once every 5 or 6 years they might have a shot at getting a birth in the tourney.

And I don't want to go back to the days of Jeff Brown and Paul Rogers teams at the old kennel where we could pretty much sit anywhere we wanted.

maynard g krebs
11-25-2014, 09:29 PM
I wish for once that Few could find the humility to be like other coaches, other great coaches who I know DO Want to win a national championships.

I pretty much agree with Vandal's response to the entirety of this post, but I'm curious about the above sentence in particular.

Humility, noun:
The quality or condition of being humble; modest opinion of one's own importance, rank, etc.

Synonyms: Lowliness, meekness, submissiveness

Antonyms: Pride

So given the above, what did you mean? Thanks.

U Zig, I Zag
11-25-2014, 09:48 PM
What I see is instead of 'swinging for the fences' and making rash choices (both coaching and player recruiting choices) Few and Co have instead built a steadfast, winning program. Always in the discussion, often ranked and every single year they have had an opportunity to play in in the tourney. Very few teams can do this. We are lucky the team we root is in this situation.

An E8, FF, NC are all going to be products of this type of system. You can hope for a George Mason type situation, but personally, I think this is a lot more fun.

Vanzagger
11-25-2014, 10:33 PM
What's up Big Apple.

ZagsGoZags
11-25-2014, 10:38 PM
What needs to be also mentioned is the ranking of the WCC
there are 30 or more conferences
6 are the Big Conferences, correct?
below those are the Mid-Majors
I don't know how many are below the Mid Majors or what that boundary might be
but out of 30 or so conferences isn't the WCC always floating around between 10th and 13 strongest, best of the conferences?
one side of the coin is that the WCC is one of those little, weak, piddling Mid majors, which sounds almost pathetic
the other side of the coin is that the WCC is often in the top third of all the conferences, which has a respectable ring to it

seacatfan
11-25-2014, 10:41 PM
A lot going on in this thread. Some responses to various parts of it.

If GU met Kentucky in the Championship and won, they would become part of basketball lore. They'd be right there with '83 NC State and '85 Villanova for being giant killers that did something there's no way they should have been able to do. The national media would eat it up. They love that kind of stuff.

At this point I don't think Few is still in Spokane because he's not done building the program in his mind. He's still in Spokane because he doesn't want to be anywhere else. He's had plenty of chances to chase the bright lights. He didn't want to.

Which brings me to my final point. It is true that nobody else in a mid major conference has had the consistent result and long string of NCAA Tourney appearances like GU has. Can anyone name one coach at a school somewhat similar to Gonzaga that has stayed put for 15+ years? It just doesn't happen. Memphis has been thru a few coaches. Xavier, Butler, schools like that are springboards to bigger jobs. McKillop has been at Davidson for quite a while, but they've been up and down over the years, no comparison to GU. Maybe if Shaka Smart is still at VCU in another 10 years, but that would be surprising (although he's passed on bigger jobs a few times already). Anyway my point is that no other school that's close to being comparable to GU has had the continuity of a highly successful coach staying put...indefinitely.

CDC84
11-25-2014, 10:57 PM
It's so funny.....casual college basketball fans outside the program who are critical of the program and Few seem to have this erroneous notion that the media universally believes that the Zags are at the level of North Carolina, Syracuse, Duke, UConn, Kentucky, Florida, whatever. I personally do not know of any Zag fan who truly believes this. The same goes for any reputable media member. The fact that a guy here and there comes out and says that Gonzaga is a potential final four team is not a declaration that they are a blueblood program. The truth of the matter is that picking a dark horse or non-blue blood final four team is almost a requirement of college basketball pundits, and it only makes sense to pick Gonzaga because of how many dang games they've won over the years, how well they're coached, the amount of good players they have, the fact that they're due for a big run, etc. Who else are they going to pick? Some middle of the pack power conference school that Gonzaga has proven it can beat with great regularity?

TheZagPhish
11-25-2014, 11:04 PM
I like coach Few and agree with his approach.

WallaWallaZag
11-26-2014, 04:43 AM
one thing i do think is fair game is to question few's ability to have his team playing its best in march...obviously being a member of the wcc is a major factor, but i have rarely felt that few's teams were peaking towards the end of a season.

Reborn
11-26-2014, 08:17 AM
I apologize to you, and anyone else who was offended because I said that Mark Few doesn't want to win a national championship. The use of the words "wants to" was a poor choice of words. I should have stuck to what I said in the first paragraph. As I stated in the first paragraph, which is what I wanted to say, Few has said that winning the national championship to HIM is not all that important. And I stress the word important, and the words "to him." He has said that he feels it's important in the sense that he would like to win a national championship for his players and fans because he realizes that it's important to them (the players and fans). And Few has said in a number of interview why it's not all that important to HIM. And the way I read the article, it seemed to be Parrish's intention to spell out why it wasn't all that important to MarK Few. And as I also stated in the first paragraph it does not seem to be a personal goal of Mark Few to win a national championship.

As I looked at the words "doesn't wants to" I think that what might have happened is that, like some of you, I kind of think that deep inside Mark Few really does want to win a national championship but just can't say it. I think I was trying to say that I wish Few had the humility to say that winning a national championship is important to HIM. I guess I believe (and I want to) that if Mark Few really wanted to win a national championship and that it was one of his personal goals, then he would say it in the media. And when I read the article by Parrish it outlines pretty much why it is not one of Few's personal goals, and why he doesn't think it's important in the "bigger picture." I think what Parrish meant by the "bigger picture" is how a team or program is judged, evaluated or thought of as a great team or great program. As I said in my opening paragraph, I've heard interviews, or saw in print, these same ideas that Parrish presents a number of time in the past, and that I didn't see anything new, or anything to get or feel excited about.

Honestly, I'm not sure how Few feels about this deep inside but I have never heard him say that making it to the Final Four or winning a national championship is one of his personal goals, and I have not heard him say, and have not seen anything in print that he believes that when a team or program is judged or evaluated that whether they make it to the Final Four or not should not be part of the criteria for judging how good a team, or program is. And the article pretty much outlines Few's beliefs.

Personally, I think the NCAA Tournament is a great way to see who is the best team in the country. And, imo, it's the best way. There just needs to be a playoff, or tournament in order to decide who's the best team in the USA for that year. Leaving the decision to who the best team is to sportswriters or coaches has pretty clearly not been the best way, and even having a tournament with the top 4 teams, and then the top 16, was not good enough because many folks felt that there was too much bias among coaches and sports writers. In fact, there were many who felt that there could be a team who was reaching it's peak at the end of the season (perhaps like UCONN last year), and that THAT team should be given a chance to win the national championship. Thus, the current edition of the NCAA tournament was created where 68 teams now have that chance. If Mark Few did say that he feels that UCONN was not the best team in the USA last year, and that the proof is that they were a 7th seed, then I'd say that I disagree with him. I also feel that his statements about the process of selecting a champion really is not how most people feel. And I think Few admits that. When he says that it is just nuts or crazy to believe that the tournament is important, and that reaching the final four and winning a national championship is a good way to judge a team, I disagree with him. I understand people like that, and honestly I'm one of them. I feel teams like Butler, Witchita State, ect were great teams who had great coaches and did deserve to be in the Final Four. And I do not think it's crazy or nuts to consider those teams as one of the fourth best teams in the country. And if fact, Butler, I believe, made it to the Final Four two years in a row, and Wichita State went undefeated last season until they lost to Kentucky. I think Wichita State is now considered to be a very good program, and most people believe they have a great coach. If they had not reached the Final Four I doubt that anyone would have had those thoughts. And I feel the same about Butler. Butler became a great program, and their greatness was etched into the national conscious because they made it to the Final Four. And their coach was great, and is now coaching the Boston Celtics in the NBA. Making it to the Final Four does seem pretty important to many, many, many people, and coaches who make it there are certainly thought of as great coaches. Would America feel that way about these coaches if they had not made it to the Final Four.

I have always felt bad when I read or hear Mark Few called winning the national championship is a "crap shoot." Or that in order to win it a team needs to be lucky. I'm sure that luck is involved, but is luck really the reason why teams win the national championship? Could the reason be that that team was really great, and that they had a great coach? Or that they had one or two really great players? I give credit to the team. And I admire every team that wins the NCAA Basketball Championship each year, and I also really admire every team that makes it there. The reason I say this is because I do think it's all about the journey, as Few will even say. But to me the journey does not end just because a team makes it to the NCAA tournament. It is certainly part of the journey, but there are teams each year who have higher goals and hope that THEIR journey ends by making it to the Final Four, and yes, even cutting the nets down at the end of the championship game.

I think it's a very good question to ask, "Would Gonzaga be thought of so highly if they had not made it to the Elite 8 back in 1999?" And also, "would the fact that the very next year they made it to the Sweet 16 also be a good reason to consider the basketball program at Gonzaga University to be special and yes very good. And yes, all of the other Sweet 16's and even all the times Gonzaga has won their first game are also reasons why Gonzaga is considered to be a very good program. I get all of that. Gonzaga is a very good basketball program and has achieved a lot of success and even done a few things most teams have not done. My main question is, "If Gonzaga did make it to the Final Four, or/and win a national championship, would the program then be seen as even better then it is now?" Wouldn't it be great for that team that finally does reach the Final Four, and wouldn't it be great for the university and all of its fans? For me the answer is yes, but as you all know, as Mark Few says, that that kind of thinking is just crazy and nuts and I am certain one of the nutty and crazy ones.

Why did I hurt so much inside when the team that had Adam Morrison on it (his senior year lost in the Sweet 16? Why did Adam Morrison hurt so much? The image of him lying on the floor in agony after the loss will always be etched in my mind. Why do people have these feelings? Would we have them if it was not important to us to finally advance once more past the Sweet 16? And one more time, why did so many of us hurt so much after our loss to Wichita St a couple of years ago? Where do such deep and intense feelings of loss come from? I know for me they come from my belief that it would be so great for Gonzaga U and it's team and fans to make it to the Final Four. And yes, I do think it's important and meaningful. And it would definitely put a stamp on the team as one of the Best Ever.

I agree that Gonzaga does have a great men's basketball program. But I am still hoping to see that Zag team that makes it to the Final Four and/or wins a national championship. That's just who I am. A dang good fan and someone who's both crazy and nuts.

rennis
11-26-2014, 08:22 AM
It just "seems" like there've been times in the tourney (and say Memphis) when he was real tight and might have been better to just tell the guys at the 12:00 minute mark, "Just go out and beat them by 20 however you think it best."

And, caveat to all this; I don't know what I'm talking about. So, there's that.

This made me LOL! good stuff.

I really liked this piece by Parrish, he's a good guy, good writer. I appreciate the pragmatism with which Few approaches the whole thing. It's what keeps him happy, which keeps him at GU, which keeps us winning, which keeps me happy.

I do wonder, as others have said, if the tournament fatalism he wears on his sleeve is just a cover-up. I feel like it is, and he's smart enough to know that if he voiced his true feelings on the matter he'd only open himself to more media criticism.

dan71w
11-26-2014, 08:24 AM
one thing i do think is fair game is to question few's ability to have his team playing its best in march...obviously being a member of the wcc is a major factor, but i have rarely felt that few's teams were peaking towards the end of a season.

I think it is a matter of circumstance and not ability. There is only so much that can be done when the competition at the end of the year is not on par with the power conferences. With what Few has been able to do; with resources, location, conference affiliation is just remarkable.
At some point, we may or may not ever "break through"; we have however over achieved on the national scale.
You cannot build a house when you are lacking half the materials. take the materials you do have, and build a hut; that all the other natives will be envious of.

TheZagPhish
11-26-2014, 09:27 AM
Our view as fans is often very season-centric, but I think that it's different for Few. He's running cycles of development at the intersection of an ever changing roster and time. Coaching is in the rhythm of his life, alongside fly fishing and family. The journey really is the destination for him.

Finishing at the top will happen but I think that Few might see that somewhat the way many of us see a huge promotion at work: the result of a long, maturing body of work; rare; wonderful; life changing. But earned at its own pace, in its own way.

Few gets better every year. Highly touted recruits and special talent are arriving at an accelerating pace. The program has not lost any ground. We are on our way.

DixieZag
11-26-2014, 09:35 AM
Our view as fans is often very season-centric, but I think that it's different for Few. He's running cycles of development at the intersection of an ever changing roster and time. Coaching is in the rhythm of his life, alongside fly fishing and family. The journey really is the destination for him.

Finishing at the top will happen but I think that Few might see that somewhat the way many of us see a huge promotion at work: the result of a long, maturing body of work; rare; wonderful; life changing. But earned at its own pace, in its own way.

Few gets better every year. Highly touted recruits and special talent are arriving at an accelerating pace. The program has not lost any ground. We are on our way.

What he ^ said.

Vanzagger
11-26-2014, 09:49 AM
It's called Big Boy Basketball. Coach K was almost fired at Duke. Now I'm not asking to fire poor little Mark, but when you get more games televised than anyone else the last 15 years, when you get new facilities, when you take over a team who was a couple possessions from a FF, when people are calling GU a Basketball Mecca, expectations go up. They just do.

Few has a bunch of great people around him. I think a deep run or 2 is on the way.

Reborn
11-26-2014, 10:01 AM
I think it is a matter of circumstance and not ability. There is only so much that can be done when the competition at the end of the year is not on par with the power conferences. With what Few has been able to do; with resources, location, conference affiliation is just remarkable.
At some point, we may or may not ever "break through"; we have however over achieved on the national scale.
You cannot build a house when you are lacking half the materials. take the materials you do have, and build a hut; that all the other natives will be envious of.

I love your post, Dan...congrats for that idea. What a great analogy of taking the material that we have to build a hut that the neighbors will be envious of. I want to use that idea....can I borrow it from you?

Reborn
11-26-2014, 10:10 AM
Our view as fans is often very season-centric, but I think that it's different for Few. He's running cycles of development at the intersection of an ever changing roster and time. Coaching is in the rhythm of his life, alongside fly fishing and family. The journey really is the destination for him.

Finishing at the top will happen but I think that Few might see that somewhat the way many of us see a huge promotion at work: the result of a long, maturing body of work; rare; wonderful; life changing. But earned at its own pace, in its own way.

Few gets better every year. Highly touted recruits and special talent are arriving at an accelerating pace. The program has not lost any ground. We are on our way.

I understand the importance of the journey, and why it's so meaningful because what happens on the journey is so exciting and important. However, for me, it seems that a journey is aimed at going to some place. There always seems to be a goal in mind. When I take a trip I usually have a destination. It Parish's article you can see that Few does seem to have a destination and it is the NCAA tournament. But he seems to give up his goal once he gets there. He says that he sees his purpose as putting his teams in a position to go forward in the tournament. He seems to stop there. He seems satisfied right there. If his team is in "Position" to make a run, then that's sufficient. Sorry...I believe in more. Adam believed in a higher calling. Why else would he be down on the floor crying...bawling. He wanted to be like the '99 team that ended up on the floor of the court in a pile of madness and crazyness. Hugging and kissing each other and screaming. Yes....believing in making it to the final four is really crazy and nuts. And I want to be like the crazy Zags of '99.

mgadfly
11-26-2014, 10:23 AM
Prior to the 2013-14 season, GU's all time record vs. Top 25 teams (from the MBB Media Guide published in Nov 2013) was:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x375/RenoZag/GUvsTop25_zps4173ba3c.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/RenoZag/media/GUvsTop25_zps4173ba3c.jpg.html)

Somone can take the media guide page ( See Post #22 above) + last year's results ( available HERE (http://www.gozags.com/fls/26400//MEN'S%20BASKETBALL/2014-15_Gonzaga_MBB_Quick_Facts.pdf) ) and come up with an answer. . .

That wouldn't give us the answer because it would still include all the games before Few.

WBM
11-26-2014, 10:24 AM
Interesting take on the subject of this thread by Joey Brackets today. LINK (Membership Required) (http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11941801/gonzaga-bulldogs-ready-deep-march-run-college-basketball)


SPOKANE, WA -- I had the recent good fortune to witness the ascendant Gonzaga Bulldogs up close and personal. They were in the process of dismantling the Saint Joseph's Hawks in the NIT Preseason Tip-Off, step one in a process that brings them to Madison Square Garden this week while their fans hope for an even more historic journey to Indianapolis in early April.

That would be the Final Four, of course. It's about the only destination the Zags have failed to reach in their run of 16 consecutive NCAA appearances. Only Kansas, Duke and Michigan State have longer active NCAA streaks, but critics are quick to point out the national championships (four) and Final Four berths (14) those three schools have combined for in that span.

Meanwhile, Gonzaga has a big, fat zero in the Final Four column along with the lingering suspicion that it has squandered opportunities and perhaps underachieved since last making the Sweet 16 in 2009. This becomes an even more acute issue when you are the only ESPN college basketball "expert" to have predicted a Final Four appearance for the Zags in two of the last three seasons.

To which I can only respond: Deal with it. The 2012-13 Bulldogs were halted in the third round of the NCAA tournament by Wichita State, a program that has gone a mere 40-2 since upsetting Gonzaga two tourneys back. That loss should not diminish the No. 1 seed earned by the Zags or the overall 32-3 record they posted. I'll certainly take my chances with any preseason Final Four selection that becomes a No. 1 seed with more than 30 wins.

This year, several ESPN experts joined the Gonzaga bandwagon and have been rewarded with a deep, dominant team that looks like the most talented roster of the Mark Few era. But what about the so-called "underachieving"? And can the Zags overcome that when the games matter most next March?

As you might expect, I'd like to start with a few numbers. Our "seed score" system evaluates programs based upon the number of NCAA rounds they attain as measured against their pretournament seeding. Any team's average seed score, if it plays exactly the number of rounds it is seeded to play, is 1.00. A score above that means a team is outperforming its seed and, conversely, a lower score indicates a potentially underachieving program.

Since 1999, when Gonzaga's NCAA streak began, the seed scores of the four teams in question look like this:


NCAA tournament since 1999
Team Rounds Seeded Rounds Attained Seed Score
Michigan St. Spartans 45 55 1.222
Gonzaga Bulldogs 34 35 1.029
Duke Blue Devils 69 54 .783
Kansas Jayhawks 62 54 .871

And here's the data since 2010, when Gonzaga's alleged streak of underachieving began:


NCAA tournament since 2010
Team Rounds Seeded Rounds Attained Seed Score
Michigan St. Spartans 14 16 1.143
Gonzaga Bulldogs 12 10 .833
Duke Blue Devils 23 17 .739
Kansas Jayhawks 21 15 .714

The real revelation here is Michigan State. The Spartans, at least among programs to have reached 15 or more consecutive NCAA tournaments, are far and away the most likely to overachieve. Gonzaga, meanwhile, is no more of an underachiever than its more storied counterparts at Duke or Kansas.

In the last five years, all three schools have lost first-weekend games as top-three seeds. And it could be argued that Gonzaga's loss in that role (Wichita State, 2013) is less egregious than the losses by the Blue Devils (Lehigh, 2012, and Mercer, 2014) and Jayhawks (Northern Iowa, 2010, and Stanford, 2014).

The best measuring stick for probable NCAA tournament success would seem to be neutral-court performance against other NCAA teams. After all, that's what the conditions are in the actual tournament. In this regard, even in their so-called "down" period (2010-2014), the Bulldogs are doing just fine:


Duke, 15-4 (.789)
Gonzaga, 8-5 (.615)
Kansas, 11-8 (.579)
Michigan State, 11-9 (.550)


My conclusion? Don't be surprised when Gonzaga (again) earns a great NCAA tournament seed. And don't be afraid to circle the Zags a few times in your March bracket. If nothing else, the law of averages is on their side.

P.S.: And Duke should lobby the NCAA tournament to be played in November.

BurgessEraZag
11-26-2014, 10:29 AM
I think it's a good read...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24839994/talk-centered-on-gonzagas-lack-of-final-fours-misses-larger-point

Go!! Zags

If the knock on GU is a "lack of Final Fours" (and it is)-----then Cindy's "mole" may be the physical equivalent of the Zags lack of success in March or her knock (or knocker-excuse the pun). If this Jesuit syllogism works, then Gonzaga's chances are extremely good at the big dance. Cindy hasn't done too bad. She makes my Final Four any day and a "really big dance." Go Zags!

CDC84
11-26-2014, 12:05 PM
Okay I did the research on this....

According to my count, since the 2001/02 season, Gonzaga is 53-17 against unranked BCS opponents - both during the regular season and in the NCAA tournament. That's a 75.7% winning percentage. But here's the deal: 50 of those 70 games took place on true road or neutral floors....that is, away from GU, Spokane Arena and Seattle. I forget the exact number, but Gonzaga may have won something like 15 of those 20 games "home games."

MickMick
11-26-2014, 12:33 PM
It took John Wooden 14 years to win his first Championship. The legendary John Wooden.

Not saying Few is overdue, but just describing how tough it really is.

Eventually, the game will evolve due to money, and GU will be left on the outside looking in. In other words, this run of success will not last forever. Soak all the success in now.

For me, it is just about having an emotional investment in Gonzaga basketball, and fretting over the post season tournament, months before it will happen, ruins the experience.

It is too early in the season to worry about Final fours. Enjoy the journey.

Seahawk fans know exactly where I am coming from. No one knows for sure how far this team will go, but if you are following, you will be there to see it when/if it happens.

vandalzag
11-26-2014, 12:45 PM
I understand the importance of the journey, and why it's so meaningful because what happens on the journey is so exciting and important. However, for me, it seems that a journey is aimed at going to some place. There always seems to be a goal in mind. When I take a trip I usually have a destination. It Parish's article you can see that Few does seem to have a destination and it is the NCAA tournament. But he seems to give up his goal once he gets there. He says that he sees his purpose as putting his teams in a position to go forward in the tournament. He seems to stop there. He seems satisfied right there. If his team is in "Position" to make a run, then that's sufficient. Sorry...I believe in more. Adam believed in a higher calling. Why else would he be down on the floor crying...bawling. He wanted to be like the '99 team that ended up on the floor of the court in a pile of madness and crazyness. Hugging and kissing each other and screaming. Yes....believing in making it to the final four is really crazy and nuts. And I want to be like the crazy Zags of '99.

The only problem with your analogy regarding Adam is that there was still time left on the clock. While the rest of players were trying to miracle something in the last couple of seconds. You are still making things up about Few and it is disturbing. The article does not say what you want it to say. It actually states the opposite, Few is quoted as saying he wants every team to be positioned to make a run. In past interviews he has kept the same theme saying his goal every year is to maximize the potential of each team. You keep stating your perception as fact and it is completely wrong. If you use the trip analogy as a benchmark for success, then every season that does not end in a National Championship is a failure. There is only one winner and if you do not win your season is a failure. The crazy zags of 99 did not reach their destination so they must have failed based on your determination as each trip must have a fixed end point.
The irony of all of this is that if/when Few breaks through and reaches a final four/wins a national championship you will be leading the charge singing his praises and saying how you never lost faith in his approach and knew he would do it all along.

Vanzagger
11-26-2014, 01:01 PM
you are using a lot of big words there Vandal. It does't have to be all or nothing. Some of us just don't get as defensive as others when it is brought up that Few hasn't accomplished what most do when they have NBA talent and for the past 15+ years been ranked around top 20.

WBM
11-26-2014, 01:24 PM
you are using a lot of big words there Vandal. It does't have to be all or nothing. Some of us just don't get as defensive as others when it is brought up that Few hasn't accomplished what most do when they have NBA talent and for the past 15+ years been ranked around top 20.

+1 for Friendly Conversation

RenoZag
11-26-2014, 01:34 PM
That wouldn't give us the answer because it would still include all the games before Few.

If you go to the media guide page, it lists all of the games and dates; you can delete the pre-Few games and add the ones from last season. . .so yes, the answer is available using the two source documents I referenced and both are accessible via the web. The graphic I highlighted is also on the same media guide page. . .

Beat Georgia !

maynard g krebs
11-26-2014, 03:25 PM
I apologize to you, and anyone else who was offended because I said that Mark Few doesn't want to win a national championship. The use of the words "wants to" was a poor choice of words. I should have stuck to what I said in the first paragraph. As I stated in the first paragraph, which is what I wanted to say, Few has said that winning the national championship to HIM is not all that important. And I stress the word important, and the words "to him." He has said that he feels it's important in the sense that he would like to win a national championship for his players and fans because he realizes that it's important to them (the players and fans). And Few has said in a number of interview why it's not all that important to HIM. And the way I read the article, it seemed to be Parrish's intention to spell out why it wasn't all that important to MarK Few. And as I also stated in the first paragraph it does not seem to be a personal goal of Mark Few to win a national championship.

As I looked at the words "doesn't wants to" I think that what might have happened is that, like some of you, I kind of think that deep inside Mark Few really does want to win a national championship but just can't say it. I think I was trying to say that I wish Few had the humility to say that winning a national championship is important to HIM. I guess I believe (and I want to) that if Mark Few really wanted to win a national championship and that it was one of his personal goals, then he would say it in the media. And when I read the article by Parrish it outlines pretty much why it is not one of Few's personal goals, and why he doesn't think it's important in the "bigger picture." I think what Parrish meant by the "bigger picture" is how a team or program is judged, evaluated or thought of as a great team or great program. As I said in my opening paragraph, I've heard interviews, or saw in print, these same ideas that Parrish presents a number of time in the past, and that I didn't see anything new, or anything to get or feel excited about.

Honestly, I'm not sure how Few feels about this deep inside but I have never heard him say that making it to the Final Four or winning a national championship is one of his personal goals, and I have not heard him say, and have not seen anything in print that he believes that when a team or program is judged or evaluated that whether they make it to the Final Four or not should not be part of the criteria for judging how good a team, or program is. And the article pretty much outlines Few's beliefs.

Personally, I think the NCAA Tournament is a great way to see who is the best team in the country. And, imo, it's the best way. There just needs to be a playoff, or tournament in order to decide who's the best team in the USA for that year. Leaving the decision to who the best team is to sportswriters or coaches has pretty clearly not been the best way, and even having a tournament with the top 4 teams, and then the top 16, was not good enough because many folks felt that there was too much bias among coaches and sports writers. In fact, there were many who felt that there could be a team who was reaching it's peak at the end of the season (perhaps like UCONN last year), and that THAT team should be given a chance to win the national championship. Thus, the current edition of the NCAA tournament was created where 68 teams now have that chance. If Mark Few did say that he feels that UCONN was not the best team in the USA last year, and that the proof is that they were a 7th seed, then I'd say that I disagree with him. I also feel that his statements about the process of selecting a champion really is not how most people feel. And I think Few admits that. When he says that it is just nuts or crazy to believe that the tournament is important, and that reaching the final four and winning a national championship is a good way to judge a team, I disagree with him. I understand people like that, and honestly I'm one of them. I feel teams like Butler, Witchita State, ect were great teams who had great coaches and did deserve to be in the Final Four. And I do not think it's crazy or nuts to consider those teams as one of the fourth best teams in the country. And if fact, Butler, I believe, made it to the Final Four two years in a row, and Wichita State went undefeated last season until they lost to Kentucky. I think Wichita State is now considered to be a very good program, and most people believe they have a great coach. If they had not reached the Final Four I doubt that anyone would have had those thoughts. And I feel the same about Butler. Butler became a great program, and their greatness was etched into the national conscious because they made it to the Final Four. And their coach was great, and is now coaching the Boston Celtics in the NBA. Making it to the Final Four does seem pretty important to many, many, many people, and coaches who make it there are certainly thought of as great coaches. Would America feel that way about these coaches if they had not made it to the Final Four.

I have always felt bad when I read or hear Mark Few called winning the national championship is a "crap shoot." Or that in order to win it a team needs to be lucky. I'm sure that luck is involved, but is luck really the reason why teams win the national championship? Could the reason be that that team was really great, and that they had a great coach? Or that they had one or two really great players? I give credit to the team. And I admire every team that wins the NCAA Basketball Championship each year, and I also really admire every team that makes it there. The reason I say this is because I do think it's all about the journey, as Few will even say. But to me the journey does not end just because a team makes it to the NCAA tournament. It is certainly part of the journey, but there are teams each year who have higher goals and hope that THEIR journey ends by making it to the Final Four, and yes, even cutting the nets down at the end of the championship game.

I think it's a very good question to ask, "Would Gonzaga be thought of so highly if they had not made it to the Elite 8 back in 1999?" And also, "would the fact that the very next year they made it to the Sweet 16 also be a good reason to consider the basketball program at Gonzaga University to be special and yes very good. And yes, all of the other Sweet 16's and even all the times Gonzaga has won their first game are also reasons why Gonzaga is considered to be a very good program. I get all of that. Gonzaga is a very good basketball program and has achieved a lot of success and even done a few things most teams have not done. My main question is, "If Gonzaga did make it to the Final Four, or/and win a national championship, would the program then be seen as even better then it is now?" Wouldn't it be great for that team that finally does reach the Final Four, and wouldn't it be great for the university and all of its fans? For me the answer is yes, but as you all know, as Mark Few says, that that kind of thinking is just crazy and nuts and I am certain one of the nutty and crazy ones.

Why did I hurt so much inside when the team that had Adam Morrison on it (his senior year lost in the Sweet 16? Why did Adam Morrison hurt so much? The image of him lying on the floor in agony after the loss will always be etched in my mind. Why do people have these feelings? Would we have them if it was not important to us to finally advance once more past the Sweet 16? And one more time, why did so many of us hurt so much after our loss to Wichita St a couple of years ago? Where do such deep and intense feelings of loss come from? I know for me they come from my belief that it would be so great for Gonzaga U and it's team and fans to make it to the Final Four. And yes, I do think it's important and meaningful. And it would definitely put a stamp on the team as one of the Best Ever.

I agree that Gonzaga does have a great men's basketball program. But I am still hoping to see that Zag team that makes it to the Final Four and/or wins a national championship. That's just who I am. A dang good fan and someone who's both crazy and nuts.

Could you do a "cliff notes" version of that post, i.e. 100 words or less? I'd like to know what you have to say, but the game will be on in a couple hours and I don't have time to read that. LOL. Thanks.

maynard g krebs
11-26-2014, 03:45 PM
you are using a lot of big words there Vandal. It does't have to be all or nothing. Some of us just don't get as defensive as others when it is brought up that Few hasn't accomplished what most do when they have NBA talent and for the past 15+ years been ranked around top 20.

And why would you get defensive about something you yourself bring up?

Now, on the subject of NBA talent, maybe what, 40 or so new players make the NBA in a given year, and let's say about 30 of them are from the U.S. (Just a rough guess). How many GU recruits are in the top 30 coming out of hs? I can think of one, Austin Daye. Downs was, but obviously a bit overrated or he would have made it at Kansas. As to the internationals, Sacre was borderline top 100, Olynyk the same at best, Turiaf was raw and awkward looking though smart and athletic, certainly wouldn't have been rated higher if he played hs in the states. So I'd say Daye and Sabonis came to GU reasonably projecting as NBA talent; the rest of those that made it, including 100-150 ranked Dickau and 200+ ranked Morrison (though I'd grant that he was top 50 caliber by the end of his sr year- long after GU recognized his potential when he had no major offers) WERE DEVELOPED BY THIS COACHING STAFF AT GU.

It's also instructive to consider the fact that all these top 20 teams are developed by a coach and staff that have achieved 1/2 of a top 25 recruiting class as ranked by the major services in all these years.

Have a nice day.